Guild Wars 2

Just xfered there from Mag. Got tired of the que times after work. If any guild wants me, I have an 80 Thief and Mesmer

Tuks.7532:

why would someone run TO the thief using it? i dont get it..

Probably the same people who think popping a reflect of their own will hit the thief with a re-reflect hehe

Fiesbert.9816:

Knyx.5926:

@Terrahero
If quickness takes a brokenly out of place weapon set (sword with slow swing speed and self root on a MOBILITY class) to the extreme then wouldn’t that blatantly state that the broken out of place weapon set needs to be fixed/buffed and the quickness needs to be nerfed/removed?

So you just would have 2 out of 3 viable mainhand weapons without Quickness?! Thats unbearable! Here, have the Necro mainhand dagger, our ONLY viable mainhand
Jokes aside, two wrongs don’t make a right and if removing Quickness would break sword thiefs, which I’m not convinced it would, there are still issues between ALL professions due to Quickness.

Not sure what you mean about 2 out of 3. If it is nerfed/removed it effects ALL weapon sets, but it effects Pistol Whip builds the most because that is the only thief build it takes to the extreme.

As for Necro dagger, trust me I played necro. Just like a self root doesn’t belong on a mobility class, the mix mash of ranges that the dagger set has for necro doesn’t belong either. If we were to talk about necros I would certainly say buff equalize ALL necro dagger ability ranges to 900.

But you see here I am talking about thief specifically; Lets for argument sake get past the self root (and changing stun to daze or removing it) because that needs to go so bad I 100% consider it a bug because no developer in their right mind would INTEND something like that on a mobility class. So that leaves us with really slow weapon speed for #1 and #3. Whilst sword most definitely needs to be slower then dagger I think if quickness is nerfed/removed the speed on sword should be taken to a half way point from current sword speed and current dagger speed.

If you want to base it around any sense of general design common sense, the current sword speed can be pictured to be more of a longsword which doesn’t make sense on a thief, where as a short sword on the other hand or a fencing sword does make sense and those are made for faster accurate strikes. If quickness was nerfed or removed sword would 100% not be viable anywhere BUT maybe (and even this is a maybe) PVE.

Without quickness, since the stun is so short and thief immobilizes don’t last very long, youd find AT BEST non-afk players getting hit by 2 of the hits in a single pistol whip and those 2 being the first, generally the weaker ones. Now lets say even if Pistol whip suddenly was given 100% crit chance baseline. Those 2 hits would tickle ANY class of ANY build at the same time costing just under half the thief natural initiative pool.
I have more faith in A-net not to turn sword thieves into only able to kill AFKers, even though thats the road these whiners want

Umm… What part of those thread titles entail that a nerf is incoming?
Are you so blind that you did not even read what John himself explained?

Silly rabbit..

@Terrahero
If quickness takes a brokenly out of place weapon set (sword with slow swing speed and self root on a MOBILITY class) to the extreme then wouldn’t that blatantly state that the broken out of place weapon set needs to be fixed/buffed and the quickness needs to be nerfed/removed?

Shredicus.8706:

Teulux.6732:

There wasn’t a single post in this thread about cluster bomb and you come out of left field talking about how it is the god of AoE spells (which is untrue).

I was correcting a fallacy that another thief was attempting to perpetuate in relation to the original post. If you cannot see the value in my posts then I invite you to ignore them and the content contained therein.

I did not know “correcting a fallacy” meant responding to a simple yet true statement with complete misinformation and excuses. Where have I been.

which is why ALL shadowsteps should have shadow return, even steal, this would make sure there is a fluid and uniqueness to the shadowstep which requires pathing where as an actual teleport does not. As an added bonus shadow return on steal gives benefit to the underdog P/P or SB builds

Shredicus.8706:

Look if you thieves really cant hit a group of people standing on/below a wall with a 715 unit radius AoE …. I’m sorry but this game isn’t made for people like you.

Well maybe you like to stand below the walls, but at least on the servers My server (Maguuma) is matched up, the players have half a brain. Why would any other class need to be within our range if they have full 1200 range rotation weapon(s)???
Also like me and the other poster said, its travel time (projectile speed) is so slow, and the fact it makes us target the ground where we want it are all key facts that make it the OPPOSITE of spammable.
Noone in here was complaining about difficulty hitting targets, but that we don’t have a 1200 range weapon (1 skill hits the 1200 range mark at the edge of a circle is not a 1200 range weapon) and explaining to others that is why we are pigeon holed into the tactics complained about in this thread (IE Dagger storm)

@ Shredicus lol… Best spammable?
It costs initiative, AND has a very slow projectile speed, probably one of the slowest in the game. I also would never call a GROUND targeted aoe spammable in the first place.
The bleed is minimal unless you are condition damage spec, which would sacrifice the on hit damage. You acting like an ability is somehow special because it has a combo finisher is also a laugh, thank you for that.

FYI: If you think it is really 1200, think about where that is on the AOE circle

With all of that outlined it still does not constitute as a 1200 range DPS weapon.

buki.3108:

Hmmmm Reflect is a strange ability. I know in PvE if you attack a mob that has reflect up while you have reflect up, the last bounce will hit them. I assume it makes 3 reflects in PvP though so whoever initiates the attack takes the damage.

I use dagger storm consistently and never get hit back by a reflect through my reflect

Ayestes.1273:

If they ever did remove the immobility of it, then I think they’d have to remove the stun/daze or whatever it is now as well, which kinda messes with it a bit too much.

Yea I forgot about that. A stun would not make sense because it stops your target. It would probably need to be a daze

Ayestes.1273:

Quickness doesn’t need nerfs, but a Thief does need Quickness for Pistol Whip to be effective either. Ideally you aren’t spamming the crap out of it anyway, in my opinion.

As an aside, I’d be curious which profession doesn’t have some way to absorb a Quickness burst. Honestly, I think the only one with a valid complain would be a Necromancer, and frankly you could still dodge the control in the first place.

Honestly if they did remove the self root and made both sword attacks a little faster I could do with them 100% removing quickness from the game, no need to even nerf it

the biggest problem is the 100% lack of PVP/PVE gear with Power+Prec+Vitality
Power+Prec+Vitality would be a much more fluid choice especially if you use Divinity Runes

if you touch quickness you have to make thief sword attacks a little faster and definitely remove the self root on pistol whip (the word self root is blasphemous for a class that is supposed to be based on mobility anyway)

You realize the if you pop a reflect it is still a projectile lol. It will not hit the thief, it will just protect you. Only Retal will put the damage back on the thief because it is now turned into an effect and not a projectile

I love porting or sneaking behind zergs, Dropping caltrops on the most bunched group, dagger storming then stealing from any warrior I see. If I get a lot of melee hitting on me I just dodge away and use Infil arrow back towards my own zerg. These kind of tactics is really the only use a theif has to make a difference in w3. Killing someone about to attack a supply run 1v1 isn’t really a unique contribution because any class can do that and thief is the only class lacking a 1200 range DPS weapon, so we are always in close range (technically) if we are hitting you.

I agree we need an ability or 2 that plants you behind the target. It is already dumb they have a positional on backstab in a game that doesn’t have perma stealth

meh the only weird thing about stealth in this game is they added a whole Lot of drawbacks (cant cap, revealed debuff, positioning on abilities like backstab, channeled attacks hitting) when its not even perma stealth. I don’t even think half of that should be in a game where the min duration on a stealth ability is 10 seconds, here it is 3 lol.

Where are the drawbacks of a guardians super heals? Does it give him a damage debuff? does it give them an armor debuff? no drawbacks

It is supposed to be our survival tool, and instead it is a fluff mechanic. What other classes survival tools have drawbacks like that? Once the rendering issues are fixed this will be even more apparent

Id love some xxxVitality xxxPrecision xxPower gear, for PVP and PVE

Well most MMOs have test servers to test builds or patches, but I think they should be exponentially more liberal, just with a disclaimer (like don’t ever expect ANY of this to reach live). Like a test server where there are devs dedicated to just doing knee-jerk changes; Doesn’t matter if it is a buff, nerf, or just to test out a bug fix.

With that said, I think any next generation MMO that wants to advertise highest balance possible will do something like the following:

Introduce a downloadable “test” server package. It will open the game but the area you play in might only be like the size and scope of The Mists. It will also have it’s own specialized admin console, and screen recorder built in (like fraps). It may also come with an editable database file where people can make changes like " Let me take this self root off Pistol Whip", save the build, then load it into the “test” server on the customer’s machine. From there they can test the build, and all changes at different angles, spawning mobs or having multiple clients on their machine logged into the server to test the effectiveness on certain/all classes and builds. At the same they can record their testing and publish their findings with the video and the database changes on a website or specialized forum. From there the devs can view and critique ideas from the community as a whole, a community that would know have an exponentially better understanding of the game, the work that gos into it, and show that they care about the health of the game itself. This will in turn will actually help developers do their job, cut a huge chunk out of the “OMG NERF X and BUff Y” threads that spam every MMOs forums.

Just my idea for the future

lol…. just lol…

You realize we are pigeon-holed into this kind of gameplay because we don’t have a viable 1200 range DPS option (every other class gets one) for wvwvw right? In wvwvw range is king. Range is what causes stand-offs, Range is what causes the most deaths and Range gives you the most survivability.

For instance, since 99% of players run with the herd, The only thing we can really do is run around the enemy zerg when they are attacking ours, drop caltrops on em and dagger storm towards our own zerg (rinse and repeat). Sure it is effective, but at the same time if we try to do anything else, another class will be able to do it better.

what I would give to have some caped armor

InterestingJohn.3109:

It’s sad that 50% of this thread is AC knockoffs.

It always amazes me that in a game with so much customization, most people just end up pretending to be something they can be in another game.

CoH also had this problem, you could make any hero you could imagine, and most people just made Superman clones, it shows a deep lack of creativity in society as a whole.

For those of you doing very unique, interesting characters, kudos!

Actually 99.9999999% of players in this game are still using a template from another medium, even if it is subconsciously (most of the time it isn’t) that is just the TV and subliminal world we live in.
Your tantrum complaint is just like calling all the kids that dress up on Halloween “posers” because they are ALL dressed like some character. Did it ever occur to you that making our thief look like Altair, Enzio, or Connor etc is actually our way of flattering Ubi and the design team of those games. If you are going to complain about that kind of flattery, then I feel bad for you.

@ aarius you realize it is THIEF that is the only class without a long range option (long range is 1200/+, Sub 1200 is considered close range) Just because your guardians long range options is suboptimal, at least you get one. You are also the best tank for sitting in front of a zerg that knows what to do (AKA make the guardians be the first to load on enemies screens and dont stalemate) or how about the reflects on gates…

The guardian has a lot more options with roles to perform in w3. As a thief, on any matchup where the servers you are fighting have even minimal brain power, you will see 99% of players running with the herd. All a thief can do is sneak around the enemy zerg, pop caltrops and dagger storm, otherwise he will have less effect then any other class

Slcrisis.6930:

AC look, straight up with an eagle, cause why not. I say we all band together in DR and sync /dance, and make a Brotherhood guild while we’re at it.

hehe. Im actually tempted to get the human cultural T3 gloves just because they have a wrist switchblade, but its on the outside instead of inside, what do you think? my pic is on page 3

@ Chris again, if I started it, and keep getting props for it. Then how would that make me a wanna-be? A wanna-be would be someone who tried but couldn’t pull off the look (don’t take offense) :P

Bbaghi.8934:

Nice pics guys. Alot of wannabe Assassins creed though ;p

Not so much a wannabe if everytime I play I get at least 5-10 PMs asking for the names of all my pieces, much less the dozens of messages on the forums

lol being able to use Pistol whip while moving is actually the first thing that should be changed about our class before anything else. The dev that added the self root has to be on some serious illegal drugs to add self root to ANY ability to THE mobility based class.
The stun will have to go to, probably turned into a daze, because if u can move while using, a stun will not synergize nor will an immobilize

Lurkerfox.7684:

My theme thief is finally done xP
Lurkerfox here as Ezio Auditore de Firenze XP

We are the Assassin’s Creed brothers!

Me Altair and you Enzio

Ele is the fastest if only specced a little bit for it.
Second is Warrior.
Thief only has the initial burst but is still spending the same resources they need to attack to keep up with other classes.

A-net from the beginning advertised thief was going to be the most mobile class. False advertising so far if you ask me.

Burrid.4739:

Thief followed by elementalist.
25% base speed, 33% speed after dodging (3x), when I steal I gain 33% speed. Then to cover some ground faster than 33% run speed: heartseaker spam outjumps any permanent swiftness. Then you still have the shadowstep and other ports.
No one is outrunning my thief.

Wrong… Wrong…Wrong…

25% base speed from signet DOES NOT, DOES NOT stack with swiftness.
Dodge roll swiftness is lol what 3 seconds.

Supersun.4603:

Knyx.5926:

Edewen.8304:

Yeah… nowhere in that picture is exploiting invul. thats being spawn camped. I do not see any siege equipment bombarding the supply camp below. fail troll is fail.

If he is taking damage from the player that is invulnerable, then that IS exploiting. If the target is in the invulnerable spawn area, the target should not be able to deal damage to players outside of it.

What was that about a troll?

Or maybe if your target is in their spawn area and is invulnerable you shouldn’t run up so close that they can hit you? That’s not exploitation. That’s just common sense. There’s a reason they put legendary archers near every other entrance to a spawn area :/

So by your philosophy a hacker is not really hacking if you try and attack them?

Its not stupid, I actually find your justification and philosophy only shared by people that do exploit and hack knowingly, stupid.

If you don’t believe it is exploitation do it and report yourself explaining exactly what you are doing lmao. What a joke

Any other choices? Seems I cannot transfer to SoS

Edewen.8304:

Yeah… nowhere in that picture is exploiting invul. thats being spawn camped. I do not see any siege equipment bombarding the supply camp below. fail troll is fail.

If he is taking damage from the player that is invulnerable, then that IS exploiting. If the target is in the invulnerable spawn area, the target should not be able to deal damage to players outside of it.

What was that about a troll?

@Nawal
I am sorry but that will not work.

Assassin’s signet, I like the 3 sec daze but also have it grant a couple stacks of might.
Mug= No it is fine as it is, no need to change. Steal has a nice cooldown so it is not like this can be spammed

Quickness= If you mess with quickness with theif, you have to do it for every class, and depending on what you do, you have to do it for the sigils and traits as well for every class. I wouldn’t mind a complete removal of this ability, BUT keep in mind. Pistol Whip builds have a valid excuse for using quickness, and that is sword attack speed for thief is FAR too slow then add in the fact there is an ability with a self root.
What kind of illegal drugs did the dev do that added a self root to a mobility based class? So you mess with quickness, you gotta remove that, and make sword #1 and #3 attack a little faster

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

As someone in Tarnished Coast fighting Sea of Sorrows, I will tell you, their players don’t give up easily. Don’t know if I’ve seen any bots, but they have some skilled fighters there.

Good sportsmanship. And good to hear. I thought TC moved up past Maguuma in the ladder last match-ups (or do I have my servers mixed up)? kinda strange a server higher in the ladder would have quicker que times. I thought the higher ones had longer que times naturally from people who transfer to winning servers

Muzak.1508:

Sea of Sorrows,
NA player here and I never have to wait for Q’s or even during NA prime times has little to no Q times. Also if there is a Q can still easily get into other WvW maps while waiting for your choosen map to Q to pop

How is the wvwvw presence for yourserver? Are the Ques quick because the server is lacking in wvwvw motivation? Do the players in wvwvw give up easily or bot?

Thanks for the insight but I want to stick to NA servers

Been on Maguuma since headstart, love the community, hate to see it go but with hours picking up at work I want to be able to hop in and have an instant to sub 15 min que.
I also do not want to be waiting a long time in que on weekends either.

As long as the server has a decent presence in wvwvw, and motivation even if they lose/are losing.
I have an 80 thief and mesmer in full exotics. I have some leadership experience if only small, but can translate a lot from Art of War to the game.
and please no server with guilds that troll/bot, mature RPers are fine.

Zunhar.4079:

You know what, your right. That 43% constant speed buff has to go. NERFZ RANGERZS!!!

In all seriousness, you won’t catch a Thief if he puts his mind to it. For example:
Signet of Shadows-25% speed buff.
Expeditious Dodger-5 pt Acrobatic minor. 2 sec of swiftness on dodge.
Shadowstep-1200 range instant teleport.
Infiltrator’s Arror-5th Shortbow skill,900 range teleport (well, more like 750 cause the arrow has to travel there before we teleport).
Oh, and then (depending on his weapon set) he could have used Infiltrator’s Stirke to leave behind Shadow Return, which is a 1200 range teleport to where he first used Infiltrator’s Strike.
And then Steal, which is a 900 range teleport (must have a target) but if traited can apply 10 seconds of swiftness and 15 seconds of Vigor.

This isn’t even considering things like Sigil of Energy or anything like that.
Good luck catching up with a Thief.

umm lol
Signet of shadows doesnt stack with swiftness, swiftness just overwrites for the duration.
Infiltrators arrow/Heartseeker COST initiative, we do NOT have infinite of this.

Elementalist is the ONLY class where their movement speed traits (and they have a bunch) all stack along with the signet, but still do not stack with swiftness.
Elementalist if specced a small amount the right away will out run a thief by a large margin.

Warriors with Greatsword and X/Warhorn can stay neck and neck with ANY thief, they can have a LONG duration swiftness, AND all of their jumping/charging/spinning movement weapon abilities are on LOW cooldown. Low enough cooldown to actually have much less downtime then ANY thief movement ability.

I see a lot of whining, especially considering thief is NOT the most mobile class and that is exactly what A-net advertised that thief was going to be

Yes thieves are able to run around in perma stealth, jumping from target to target, instagibbing each one without hesitation. They also fire lightning bolts from their behind, oh and can fly.

/sarcasm off

Backstab builds = A lot of these thieves you are getting owned by with backstab are actually bad players themselves (complaining about them makes you what?) What makes them bad is they build entirely around 1 ability (backstab), to do the huge spike damage they also have to be BEHIND YOU (key hint dont stand still, theif doesnt have any ability that auto places them behind you that doesnt break stealth) and rely on Assassins signet ( Check the cooldown!) It is NOT a short cooldown.

Pistol Whip builds: they build entirely around Quickness (haste utility skill), again not a short cooldown, even longer then Assassins signet. However whilst building around 1 ability is bad, these players have an excuse. Sword attack speed is FAR too slow for a class that is supposed to be about mobility, to add tobasco sauce to the wound, PW self roots… it takes a lot of illegal drug useage to add a self rooting ability to a mobility class (hint to devs)

Chrysalis.5983:

All I want for christmas is

1. Assassin Signet go bye-bye. It’s the source of much of the whine about backstab builds, and the class can honestly live without it.

2. Shortbow becomes a reasonable weapon instead of this godlike THING that is a mandatory weapon for all thief builds.

@Cal: You can steal during C&D’s cast animation. This basically means that your one and only warning of a surprise thief attack is that lone damage event just before the backstab lands. (And if the thief is on top of their game, the window you have to react in is infintesimally small because activating signet turns autoattack on)

Sure, if you see them coming, you can dodge as the steal is incoming, but that’s not a case of you being good, THAT’S A CASE OF THE THIEF BEING BAD AND TOO DIRECT.

Only reason SB is considered mandatory is because all the other ranged sets are lackluster. Also because of Infiltrators arrow.
Unfortunately even though A-net advertised thief as the most mobile class, we are actually surpassed by a couple, including ele. There are a few classes, where to keep the same pace as them and ability to enter/exit combat like we are supposed to we have to dumb a lot of initiative by spamming Infiltrators arrow or heartseeker, whilst some of the other classes can just pop a weapon ability that gives swiftness and another that causes a burst of movement (like a Warrior with GS+X/Warhorn)
These weapon abilities are also on very short cooldowns.
2 weapon abilities on cooldown > Unable to fight because of drained initiative.

The only way to solve the shortbow dependency (without screwing them in wvwvw) is to buff things like Pistol+Pistol, (or give us a 1200 range weapon, thief is the only class without one). Changing Infiltrators arrow to something that doesnt teleport/grant mobility, means they have to give us some actual movement boosting talents like ele has in Air (was surprising the advertised mobility class is lacking in these).

The stealth issue is a problem with the game engine. Considering Tournament teams consisting of mostly thieves actually fail against a mix, and are pigeon-holed to begin with build wise, don’t be surprised if the stealth fix actually makes them underpowered (there is a chance you never know).

I wouldnt mind Assassins signet and quickness for every class getting toned down either, wouldn’t really effect me, and smart players don’t build entirely around 1 ability, or 1 signet like some of these thieves are doing (IE Backstab/ Haste/Assassins signet)

At the same time I want some QoL changes to the sword set. The attack speed without quickness up is far too slow for a mobility class (needs to be faster but still slower then daggers). Also it takes a lot of illegal drugs to stick a self root on an ability (PW) for a class built around mobility. That needs to go, even if damage is reduced and stun is removed, and speed increased

still seems lackluster to d/d deathblossom +caltrops combo, especially in TTK and AOE functionality.

Killing your target faster can equal more survivability as well if you think about it.

Just my opinion though.

And for wvwvw, I tried a condition build, while it surpasses all the other builds when you are able to engage (surprise) a small number of players (~5) that are bunched up, but overall in the scheme of things still lackluster compared to crit+stealth heavy build, now a days I will shadow enemy zergs or friendly zergs, once zergs collide I sneak around the rear of the enemy zerg, drop shadow refuge+caltrops on the most bunched group, a few cluster bombs and dagger storm toward my zerg, rinse and repeat. This alone completely changes the tide of a fight.

sorrow.2364:

Devolution.5716:

muha almost lvl 80 with my new warrior… srsly nerf thiefs and they become useless it’s only some few buffs to other classes then they can match thiefs.
But at the same time thiefs with 10k crits = deadmeat if they fail just for 1 second.
Also try getting to Rank 10 with 1 class before QQ like kitten, i am doing fine as warrior atm having 0 problems killing thiefs and i can do the same with any other class.
I just need time to adjust myself on how to play the class…..

L2P srsly -Regards Devolutionz

So, you are saying that you have no problem dealing with Thieves with your Warrior?
Wow, who expected that? The easymode profession has no problems with an easymode profession!

Now, make an Elementalist/Necromancer, than go in sPvP. Tell me if you have no problems dealing with Thieves.

I play an ele in spvp and have no problem with thieves. If anything with all my AOE damage is more of a bane to them then most classes.
Key hint: When taking over/defending a node, do NOT stand still with an extremity up the proverbial rectum

it doesn’t nullify it. It is just that 33% of like half your ooc speed is a much smaller number

A must have weapon for A-net to implement:
Kyoketshu-Shogei.
This weapon can be best seen in the move Ninja Assassin.
http://www.amazon.com/Weapon-Ninja-Assassin-w-Chain/dp/B004XK27BS

Also used by Hattori Hanzo in samurai warriors

Shomaruki.7395:

Promise you it doesn’t work ;/ I’ve fought people even inside the bubble itself and it reflects. But it doesn’t reflect a thief dagger storm for nothing.

That is because the dagger storm itselfs reflects projectiles as well. The algorithm making up feedback bubble probably requires the projectile reflected to be initiated by an actual entity and not a reflect trigger. So once the feedback bubble reflects the projectile and dagger storm reflects it, in the code side of things it is not considered to be originating from your PC, it is originating from a trigger.

Well here is a few things:

I suggested in quite a few threads that Death Blossom and Heartseeker be switched. Making heartseeker the Dagger/Dagger dual skill and DB the dagger Main hand #2. Also giving Deathblossom the Combo finisher (trading the leap distances wouldnt hurt either)

This would open up more unique and fluid options.
Think Dagger/Pistol. If someone wants to use a condition build and use backstab as their secondary damage, now they can, and vice versa.
EX: Black Powder -> Death Blossom (=stealth AND behind the target) -> Backstab (=profit?)

Cloak and dagger. Misses a lot, mainly because it requires you to be literally in kissing range of the target (not arms length). Unless you use a targeted shadowstep before hand; If the target move an inch, it misses. If either you OR the target is experiencing latency, it misses. If the target sneezes it misses. This should not be the case for such initiative cost. I say bump the range to 200-250ish.

Sword+Pistol:
#1a Issue here is Pistol Whip. As a class designed around high mobility, Having a self root on ANY ability makes you wonder what kittentail of drugs the develop was using when they added that. Id sacrifice some damage any day of the week for the removal of the self root. Removing the self root would probably also mean removal of the stun and prob changing it to a daze.

#1b Issue here is Animation/Attack speed. Sword abilities are far too slow, again for a class built around mobility (Strike 2 devs). Obviously it should swing slower then dagger because of the increased damage and AE arc capability, but NOT that slow.
A nerf of quickness across the board for all classes, which is the main cause for below nominal TTK (even if sporadic), would at the same time open up a buff to sword speed without breaking balance. It needs to be at a half way point between CURRENT sword speed and dagger speed. (this is for #1 and PW obv).

P/P/Unload.
Just remove the bleed, and make it cause a short duration chill and a long duration weakness. With like a 5-10% overall damage increase.

S/D/Flanking Strike.
Just have Flanking strike shadow step behind the target and evade while doing it. Increasing the damage a tad wouldn’t hurt either. It IS supposed to be the dual skill after all.

BobbyT.7192:

Knyx.5926:

BobbyT.7192:

How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.

I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo

You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.

Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility

An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.

Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state

BobbyT.7192:

Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.

Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.

A. It’s really not that big of an issue tho, with proper managing, thieves can still get anywhere faster and the disadvantage is minor.

As I said in another topic, the advantage of initiative is not to pull off ten different skills , (more skills doen’t mean your playing better) but to use what you need and to do whatever you want. If all I want is damage, I can use my most damaging skill, I don’t give a baby cat about anything else. If I need mobility, I going to move, and not let anything stop me, yes initiative will limit me, but any half decent thief can overcome that.

B. And I have tested elementalist move speed buffs thank you very much, and I promise you they do not stack.

A. the difference is noticeable and having to do more work for equal or less mobility does not make us the staple mobility class that A-net said we were designed around.

B. They do stack, so clearly you did not test it.

I think it is working as intended. Think of it this way, dagger storm ALSO reflects projectiles. So naturally if the dagger storm projectiles are reflected back at the thief, dagger storm should re-reflect them, but since the feedback bubble is not a targetable foe the projectiles will actually hit the nearest targetable foes. Also I think for feedback to work the enemy has to be firing projectiles at someone outside the bubble itself for them to be reflected (makes sense because they are hitting the wall of the bubble), but if you have friendlies inside the bubble it makes sense that they should get hit by projectiles.

BobbyT.7192:

How can an ele move faster? The highest move speed Increase I see is 33% for swiftness, everything else doesn’t stack. A shortbow thief still moves around faster than any swiftness toon. Yes heartseeker may be faster, but IA is no sloth.

I don’t agree with the whole range = mobility much. A 900 range thief can do just fine getting in and out just fine of combat when he needs to, 1200 is not needed imo

You may not agree with it, but it is actually true. In a general sense it is even mentioned in the Art of War. Just because you or any thief can do fine getting in and out of combat when needed, does not mean other classes cannot do the same. As A-net advertised before release, we were supposed to be the staple mobility class. Stealth is just a fluff mechanic, this is unarguable. Other games = Perma, GW2= sub 10 seconds, and 90% of the time sub 4 seconds.

Sure, if a class that can grant itself swiftness easily does NOT use any weapon abilities that cause movement, a Thief with the signet and spamming IA/Heartseeker will move faster, and to move faster (ie: beat the other class) they have to dump the same resource they will need if they ever want to do enter combat. If the other class has movement abilities , not counting the ones granting them the swiftness, (ex: Warrior GS) which have a low cooldown, and uses them, you will see them and the thief neck and neck, and the thief will not be able to jump right into combat with a rotation but the other class (ex: warrior) will as they only have been using 1-3/10 weapon cooldown abilities in their arsenal. Sacrificing the most for equal mobility =/= superior mobility

An ele with a few points into air and only using 1 weapon cooldown will beat a thief dumping all his initiative for movement speed.

Honestly Id personally rather the thief have it’s damage spread out, causing more conditions and effects, BUT have the highest (and noticeably highest at that) mobility in the game (or the only class not to be slowed in combat) with zero weapon abilities that are detrimental to that mobility (like self root on PW) , then it’s current state

BobbyT.7192:

Speed boosts do not stack, from traits or skills, it certainly doesn’t stack with swiftness, It will always take the higher value. If they could stack, thieves would be able to move >50% faster with swiftness + signet of shadow. Which I assure you they don’t.

Incorrect again. They DO stack on an ele. Whilst the traits+signet might not stack with swiftness, the traits+signet ALL stack. Make an ele and test it out yourself.

Wait so is Pikens the RP server or is TC?