Guild Wars 2

I love my thief’s look.
I have been on Maguuma since headstart and anytime I am in Lions Arch I get at least 5 Pms

Here is my thief, an assassin disguised as a clergymen ;-)

Otiz.3259:

If you avoid them propperly they will waste alot of (what ever their ressource is called); and be fairly weak after that, but again, if they catch you off guard you’ll die.

I’m starting to agree with whomever said it should be a bannable offense to post negatively about a class you don’t even understand.

A. If you rolled a thief to see how it works, you would KNOW what the resource system was called.

B. If you took 10 seconds, you would see the name of the resource system stated multiple times in this thread.

Well if they throw out any more “nerfs” to Thief they will just have to do a complete class resdesign unless they make it ONLY effect spvp zones. As it currently stands, the only nerf whining about any class since release have been from a minority. A minority that does not know what a Stun/CC Breaker is. A minority that does not know what Dodge is. A minority that does not roll the class they are whining about to understand the amount of set up and positioning these 1 trick ponies require.

If they send out any nerfs and it effects the whole game, they will make thief even more useless in wvwvw and make them useless in PVE.

Why wouldn’t it be? If you read what the BLTC section is about, you wouldn’t be asking.

Looked there and did not see it

Id actually love if we could have this weapon in game:

Kyoketshu-shoge.
http://allninjagear.com/ninja_equipment/ninja-assassin-kyoketsu-shoge-knife/

If you have seen the movie Ninja Assassin, that is probably the best showing of the weapon in a movie.

It could be the Chain+Blunt ball as main hand only, and only allowing dagger off hand.
The animations would have to be tweaked however to show the connection between the dagger and the chain.
The #1 ability could be a short range attack, not melee range, but somewhat shorter then pistol or the same range as pistol. With maybe 3s weakness on third chain attack to symbolize the blunt object hitting bone, joint or muscle and maybe 5s vulnerability on second attack of the chain, but the damage would be smaller then any other thief weapon #1 attacks, but obviously quick and chained

The second attack could be something similar to scorpion wire pull, and the dual attack could be an AOE spin of the dagger on the chain (slightly larger radius to a greatsword spin) that hits for higher damage the farther away the targets hit are and 1s dazes any targets that are very close.

Just an idea =)

I need the shoulder skin for this armor to complete the look I am going for.
If someone has any idea where to get it, it would be a great help.

http://imgur.com/a/4rtkf#24

Im looking to possibly switch servers. I started on Maguuma and am getting tired of hours of waiting in que. I’d rather have instant/ near instant ques then be the kind of person who transfers to a winning server and wait for hours.

At the same time I don’t want to go to a server where it is empty in the PVE Orr area.

If anyone has a suggestion, that would be great.

Fugly.5287:

Thieves excel in sPvP, and elementalists suck in sPvP. However in WvW thieves are essentially useless, and elementalists are vital.

How ironic.

Mesmers and a few other classes far excel thieves in spvp. wvwvw is a ranged zerg fest. When the zergs meet there is a little “no mans land” that shifts, so that is perfect for eles

Also eles are not that bad in spvp, I actually do 2x better on ele in spvp then I ever did on necro

A. I see you whining a lot, and using an extreme hypocrite philosophy. You contradict yourself a TON of times in the single post it makes your word mean next to nothing.

B. Stating opinion is different then stating fact, or math. However it is still an argument.
The argument was that thieves were Overpowered, no evidence was presented.
Then someone argued that thieves could do 20k+ burst damage, no evidence was presented. Excuse me hypocrite for preferring my arguments to be intellectual, you know what wonderful thing called intelligence.

Anyone can make a thread saying X class is overpowered and does 10 billion damage is .000003 seconds. There is nothing stopping them. Without evidence backing them up it is all banter and moot.
So where is the evidence? 1-2 screenshots don’t prove anything, the guy could have armor off, nor does that in any way make it a regular occurrence.

C. A few matches means once and awhile. Once and awhile =/= regular occurrence. Where is your head? Use it. I also said ONCE every few matches so that’s even less.

All I see in your thread is a childish rant, because you cannot prove or backup your statements. You cannot provide evidence, and you just wanted to say thief was overpowered because you don’t understand the game mechanics, nor tried to roll one to figure out how it works. You just think you can target me because I apply the same philosophy to all of your mindless supporters in this thread? That is a joke.

Try again.

kittennuts.5291:

Knyx.5926:

kittennuts.5291:

You have no idea what you are talking about. YOU don’t have to work 4x as hard. YOU HAVE 4x THE SPELLS. Meaning to compete well you have to USE THEM ALL. if you are not good enough to micro all your abilities you won’t compete against the best of other classes.

A well played el has all the tools to 1 v 1 and win against any class . Unless a well geared thief jumps you and kills you before you can move. BUT HE CAN DO THAT TO MOST CLASSES. Thiefs are the only possible class that is too strong because of their 24k burst . But they have problems too.

Learn to UTILIZE all of your skills before you come whining on the forum. This post will give people the WRONG idea.

And btw, your AOE is the best in the game next to a bow-warriors double fire AOE. but that is a big cool down and requires your full addren f1.

So much wrong with this. If you don’t like the challenge then don’t play it. If you MASTER all of your spells and use them correctly, you will completely devastate pvp.

That is all.

Yawn, another person ranting about how OP thieves are and how they can do a million damage in a few hits (which they cant) and not providing a single, not even a microscopic amount of evidence.

youkitten hat. That wasn’t the point of my post at all. And i even said they have their own problems. I don’t think they are op. And what evidence are you talking about ?! Go play a thief sPvP and do 24k burst. Its not a secret or proof. Its how the class is intended to be. stupid troll.

Again, no evidence to back it up. That would make YOU the troll, since YOU are the one claiming YOU are claiming they can do 24k burst. Since you cannot even read what you wrote in the post YOU made that I quoted, that also makes you a troll. You clearly said thief was OP

I have a thief, lvl 80 in PVE, and I do wvwvw as well as Spvp. I also play Mesmer, Warrior and Ele.

Still waiting for the evidence.

kittennuts.5291:

You have no idea what you are talking about. YOU don’t have to work 4x as hard. YOU HAVE 4x THE SPELLS. Meaning to compete well you have to USE THEM ALL. if you are not good enough to micro all your abilities you won’t compete against the best of other classes.

A well played el has all the tools to 1 v 1 and win against any class . Unless a well geared thief jumps you and kills you before you can move. BUT HE CAN DO THAT TO MOST CLASSES. Thiefs are the only possible class that is too strong because of their 24k burst . But they have problems too.

Learn to UTILIZE all of your skills before you come whining on the forum. This post will give people the WRONG idea.

And btw, your AOE is the best in the game next to a bow-warriors double fire AOE. but that is a big cool down and requires your full addren f1.

So much wrong with this. If you don’t like the challenge then don’t play it. If you MASTER all of your spells and use them correctly, you will completely devastate pvp.

That is all.

Yawn, another person ranting about how OP thieves are and how they can do a million damage in a few hits (which they cant) and not providing a single, not even a microscopic amount of evidence.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Knyx.5926:

Lewk.8359:

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Again, incorrect. You also must mean quickness not haste, which is long cooldown so that makes it very situational and low uptime.

Where is this burst you are speaking of? Backstab requires stealth, even a high stealth build is gonna sacrifice some power or crit, you arent in stealth all that much, AND the ONLY stealth ability that removes any conditions is the heal. Well last I checked most classes can cause burning or bleeding if not ALL. So that negates most of their stealth. Secondly if they are stealth build they probably have 100% crit chance in stealth which takes the place of the 20% increased damage if target is below 50%. talent…

Maybe you mean Pistol Whip, the long activation time ability (unless you have quickness up), easily dodged and short stun.

Or do you mean heartseeker? That does 1-2k on non-tank targets when it doesn’t crit. Even glass cannon full crit builds dont have near 100% crit.

Screenshots?
Videos?
Tried playing thief yourself to see how they did it?

…

Hope you are not a thief, since you dont even know the names of your skills or how stealth works.

First: the skill that buffs quickness is named Haste, so why picking on him about it?

Secondly: Stealth does not break on damage taken, so burning or bleeding does not “negate” most of their stealth.

“Stealth is broken when the user attacks, however characters remain hidden while taking damage or stealing” – From the Wiki.

I do play thief, leveled one to 80 and Spvp and wvwvw from there on.

1. Haste is an effect and a skill name (different from each other), there are multiple ways to gain quickness, so him using the skill name is strange to me

2. That is not entirely how stealth works. I have been in a fight tons and tons of times, popped an ability that stealthed me (other then vanish) and if I had a burn or bleed on me it popped me right out.

Maverick.6485:

Knyx.5926:

Im Too Godlike.5629:

Knyx.5926:

Surprised to see this much about ele.
Lets recap on ele

Best healing and group healing in the game= CHECK
High Multi-role capability = CHECK
More base toughness and HP then a thief = CHECK

I will give you a few hints. For SPVP and WVWVW.
Build for Air and Earth and rest into water or fire.

Air and extreme mobility, you have more mobility then a thief (supposed to be most mobile class in game laugh), you have the crit and the nice damage channel attack depending on weapon, as well as a sick BLIND. Also has high gap closing and escape (which is covered in mobility)

Earth and armor, you have an armor ability you can pop that has a LONG duration, and you can switch attunements and it will remain, this also increases toughness.
You also get a signet slot ability that gives you earth armor, and a talent at certain health. Earth also has a Nice knockdown, so even if you are in trouble do the AOE knockdown switch to Air and burst out of there.

You need to learn more about the elementalist before u post in a thread like this. Almost everything in your post is invalid.

Elementalists need a buff. It’s as simple as that.

Clearly you need to learn more about the class before you post. Saying it is invalid without providing evidence is also a sign you need to learn HOW to post.
I say they don’t need a buff except for downed abilities, simple as that.

For the others, here is pretty close to my build:
0 Fire
30 Air = Move faster attuned to air, 10% more damage, 20% recharge on air skills
20 Earth = Earth armor at 50% hp, Toughness while channeling
10 Water = Deal more damage above 90% hp (can be switches for the condition removal)
10 Arcane= You and your allies get a boon when you attune

Wow, no fire at all? How do you put out so much damage with the fire combat routine? Doesn’t fire add to your power?

The amount of power you would get from some in Fire doesnt make up for the talents im losing elsewhere. The talent choices in fire are fairly lackluster unless you are spending 80+% of your time in fire. I spend most of my time in Air. If my group is already engaged in a fairly equal fight I will start in water and pop some heals, otherwise I usually start in Air, switch to earth and back to air. But also this is what makes eles so different, don’t base your stats on talents alone. Build your sigil armor set and jewelry around it, they make an exponentially larger difference. If you want more damage in that build just get set/jewels that give you Power+Precision+Toughness, If you want balanced, Go full divinity set and use the jewel that gives a little to everything. I personally like Full divinity set, and Power+Precision+toughness jewel, you may even try a sigil set that gives full vitality and toughness, then take the berserker jewel.
Trial and error to find the one you think works best

Im Too Godlike.5629:

Anguloke.2706:

Im Too Godlike.5629:

You need to learn more about the elementalist before u post in a thread like this. Almost everything in your post is invalid.

You didn’t counter a single point he made. All you did was say I’m right you are wrong with no support. Really? Really? That is your response?

Are you ill? Everything in that post was obviously wrong. If you need me to explain it then there’s something wrong with you.

Waiting for this explanation

Im Too Godlike.5629:

Knyx.5926:

Surprised to see this much about ele.
Lets recap on ele

Best healing and group healing in the game= CHECK
High Multi-role capability = CHECK
More base toughness and HP then a thief = CHECK

I will give you a few hints. For SPVP and WVWVW.
Build for Air and Earth and rest into water or fire.

Air and extreme mobility, you have more mobility then a thief (supposed to be most mobile class in game laugh), you have the crit and the nice damage channel attack depending on weapon, as well as a sick BLIND. Also has high gap closing and escape (which is covered in mobility)

Earth and armor, you have an armor ability you can pop that has a LONG duration, and you can switch attunements and it will remain, this also increases toughness.
You also get a signet slot ability that gives you earth armor, and a talent at certain health. Earth also has a Nice knockdown, so even if you are in trouble do the AOE knockdown switch to Air and burst out of there.

You need to learn more about the elementalist before u post in a thread like this. Almost everything in your post is invalid.

Elementalists need a buff. It’s as simple as that.

Clearly you need to learn more about the class before you post. Saying it is invalid without providing evidence is also a sign you need to learn HOW to post.
I say they don’t need a buff except for downed abilities, simple as that.

For the others, here is pretty close to my build:
0 Fire
30 Air = Move faster attuned to air, 10% more damage, 20% recharge on air skills
20 Earth = Earth armor at 50% hp, Toughness while channeling
10 Water = Deal more damage above 90% hp (can be switches for the condition removal)
10 Arcane= You and your allies get a boon when you attune

Maverick.6485:

I’m sorry I don’t understand what s/(d?) is.

Scepter +dagger. and yes that is what I use on my ele with the build I semi outlined above. It works great in Spvp and wvwvw. If you want really high damage build your armor sigil set and jewelry around that. If you want even more survivability build your sigil set and jewelry around that. Even as full survivability with that build I do more damage then the poster above you claims.

Nanunu.1403:

I don’t understand. In 1 on 1 situation, mesmers or engineers are far more powerful than thieves. If you are just talking about DPS, I am pretty sure warriors can do better job than thieves.

Exactly.
There are many factors people don’t take into consideration.
They said thieves were going to be the most mobile class, I can name quite a few that are more mobile. This is why the limited stealth factor doesn’t make sense, you either have to build a rogue class with perma stealth or warriors or(insert class here) will do their job better.

Also, more time alive, being able to harass or attack, actually means more DPS and helping your group win then short lived high burst of damage.
If a thief builds for a little escape and survivability (best way atm is stealth build), they sacrifice some damage. Well with that damage sacrificed most ranged classes will still have more mobility and survivability, also to note they are ranged so their damage/condition dealing is outside the fray. Which also means they can easier see if the enemies friends are coming to join in on the action, which is why they have an easier time assessing the situation and knowing when to get out.

Being a melee class in melee means you are vulnerable to not only the damage and conditions of Ranged classes but Melee as well at ALL times. When you attack as a ranged class, you are only vulnerable to Melee classes when they can get to you.

This is why it is the natural order of balance to make melee classes have higher toughness and vitality (or insert survivability stat here) then ranged classes. When this natural order is skewed and destroyed (like this game and some before it), it creates a plethora of balance issues because when said ranged class has more survivability then any one of the melee classes, how do you balance their damage to match? how do you balance their healing to match?

Xaos.1570:

Knyx.5926:

Actually that is still a ranged class, if you chose to pick the shortest range weapon of your class, you have to understand you are sacrificing something else, until you realize that you will never understand your class.

So lets recap, you built for full glass cannon, AND took the shorter range weapons available. I also know that an ele built for glass cannon has more toughness and hp then a thief built for glass cannon.

You say it is a regular occurrence, yet I have not ONCE seen any proof. I have seen one screenshot MAYBE 2 out of hundreds of nerf posts and not 1 video.

Also, as for the vulnerability. It is a condition. If you don’t believe there are very low damage abilities that add a lot of conditions check Necro and Mesmer.

Yeah, i totally understand that picking the short range weapons will have sacrifices (namely, range).

But its not like i was outplayed, outskilled, or outmaneuvered by a thief here. They basically hit a single skill, and took me down to half or more health.

In all the classes i’ve fought, i’ve certainly never used a single skill that has dealt over 7,000 damage. At best, I could get several classes down to half health with a combo – Arcane Blast at a distance, Ride the Lightning to close in distance, Arcane Wave, Updraft to knockback, Switch to fire and cast Dragon’s Tooth. This combo requires max distance and a fairly open field, but if executed perfectly, i can get most classes down to 50% or 40% as the bulk of the damage comes once they are knocked down.

I don’t really see how anyone can advocate 11,000 damage in a single hit except under the most exceptional of circumstances. Its not the first time i’ve gotten hit around that much.

But still there is no proof you have been hit by that much often. I have actually played a LOT of classes can can hit that hard in 1 ability. Here is to name a few
GS warrior: Check
Dual axe warrior: Check
Longbow Ranger: Check
GS mesmer: Check

I’m sure ele and necro can do it too, I will do more testing myself on these

Lewk.8359:

Heartseeker + haste + %50 or below dmg bonuses = out of balance with other classes. If you took away all initiative abilities, the thief would actually play very similar to most other classes as far as consistent dmg output. However, combine their ability to do unparallelled burst , as WELL as their ability to stealth, along with their mobility, and the class needs to be brought into line with the other classes.

Again, incorrect. You also must mean quickness not haste, which is long cooldown so that makes it very situational and low uptime.

Where is this burst you are speaking of? Backstab requires stealth, even a high stealth build is gonna sacrifice some power or crit, you arent in stealth all that much, AND the ONLY stealth ability that removes any conditions is the heal. Well last I checked most classes can cause burning or bleeding if not ALL. So that negates most of their stealth. Secondly if they are stealth build they probably have 100% crit chance in stealth which takes the place of the 20% increased damage if target is below 50%. talent…

Maybe you mean Pistol Whip, the long activation time ability (unless you have quickness up), easily dodged and short stun.

Or do you mean heartseeker? That does 1-2k on non-tank targets when it doesn’t crit. Even glass cannon full crit builds dont have near 100% crit.

Screenshots?
Videos?
Tried playing thief yourself to see how they did it?

…

Surprised to see this much about ele.
Lets recap on ele

Best healing and group healing in the game= CHECK
High Multi-role capability = CHECK
More base toughness and HP then a thief = CHECK

I will give you a few hints. For SPVP and WVWVW.
Build for Air and Earth and rest into water or fire.

Air and extreme mobility, you have more mobility then a thief (supposed to be most mobile class in game laugh), you have the crit and the nice damage channel attack depending on weapon, as well as a sick BLIND. Also has high gap closing and escape (which is covered in mobility)

Earth and armor, you have an armor ability you can pop that has a LONG duration, and you can switch attunements and it will remain, this also increases toughness.
You also get a signet slot ability that gives you earth armor, and a talent at certain health. Earth also has a Nice knockdown, so even if you are in trouble do the AOE knockdown switch to Air and burst out of there.

Xaos.1570:

Knyx.5926:

Again, that doesn’t show how many stacks of vulnerability you had on you, whether or not the thief had group buffs etc.

It also sounds like you are entirely glass cannon build with that hp and getting hit for that much. So you are complaining because a MELEE glass cannon build can burst you (a RANGED glass cannon build) faster then you can him. That is the problem with a lot of MMOs these days, even more so in asian ones, people don’t understand the basic mechanics that structure PVP balance.

In terms of mobility by being a primarily RANGED class you naturally have more mobility then a MELEE class because you can start your attacks sooner, can attack/heal out of the fray and know when to escape easier. With that being said, a RANGED class should naturally have less survivability then a MELEE class. In this game there are quite a few instances where that is not the case which is messed up, this however is not one of them instances.

You are also showing 1 death. Who knows how much setup that takes. I personally have never seen myself doing a 11k backstab or 7k heartseeker in any build more then once every couple matches, but maybe thats just me

Its a fairly regular occurrence. Those two have just been the highest I’ve decided to screenshot. But being hit for a 5 – 6K heartseeker is not an uncommon sight.

I dont believe your argument holds much water especially considering the more common Elementalist sPvP builds are either Dagger/Dagger or Scepter/Dagger, which means either short range or mid range (400 range for dagger or 600 for scepter). So, no i don’t believe that being classified as a “ranged” DPS inherently means i should be two-shotable at melee. Especially considering that a Thief’s Steal skill reaches at ranges even further than that.

Both the screenshots i’ve shown also have relatively little damage coming from other classes. I don’t recall the exact situation, but i seriously doubt i had 10 stacks of vulnerability that comprised of almost no damage from some other class, only to be hit with one skill that takes away %50 – %80 of my health.

I’m all for advocating to buff Elementalists instead of nerfing Thieves, but I don’t think I’ve ever had such damage on such a regular occurrence from another class.

Actually that is still a ranged class, if you chose to pick the shortest range weapon of your class, you have to understand you are sacrificing something else, until you realize that you will never understand your class.

So lets recap, you built for full glass cannon, AND took the shorter range weapons available. I also know that an ele built for glass cannon has more toughness and hp then a thief built for glass cannon.

You say it is a regular occurrence, yet I have not ONCE seen any proof. I have seen one screenshot MAYBE 2 out of hundreds of nerf posts and not 1 video.

Also, as for the vulnerability. It is a condition. If you don’t believe there are very low damage abilities that add a lot of conditions check Necro and Mesmer.

…

Extremely biased posts with no evidence to back it up..

I can play too.

I know many people agree with me but mesmers are 1 shotting me doing 40k damage before I can even bring down 1 illusion.
Nerf them please

Master Charles.7093:

…perhaps if you had the guardian’s invulnerable full-heal you could have one more chance at not to getting two-shoted while you tried to finish this guy off, before he disappears and comes back later

They need to strike a better balance between ‘mostly unhittable’ and ‘crazy damage’ because right now, thieves are alot of both

Extremely biased opinion with no facts or evidence to back it up…

Xaos.1570:

I’m not sure what im supposed to be doing when I get hit with an 11K backstab as an Elementalist. That eats up nearly 80% of my health: http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/tinymacrocosm/gw003.jpg

And the claims of 1-2K heartseeker might be true…. But when they are 7K for a single hit, and 50% of my health? I think a little bit of adjustment is needed: http://i793.photobucket.com/albums/yy213/tinymacrocosm/gw004.jpg

Again, that doesn’t show how many stacks of vulnerability you had on you, whether or not the thief had group buffs etc.

It also sounds like you are entirely glass cannon build with that hp and getting hit for that much. So you are complaining because a MELEE glass cannon build can burst you (a RANGED glass cannon build) faster then you can him. That is the problem with a lot of MMOs these days, even more so in asian ones, people don’t understand the basic mechanics that structure PVP balance.

In terms of mobility by being a primarily RANGED class you naturally have more mobility then a MELEE class because you can start your attacks sooner, can attack/heal out of the fray and know when to escape easier. With that being said, a RANGED class should naturally have less survivability then a MELEE class. In this game there are quite a few instances where that is not the case which is messed up, this however is not one of them instances.

You are also showing 1 death. Who knows how much setup that takes. I personally have never seen myself doing a 11k backstab or 7k heartseeker in any build more then once every couple matches, but maybe thats just me

Duckzor.4327:

Knyx.5926:

Duckzor.4327:

Knyx.5926:

Yea most people hit it on the money… simple just dodge.
A lot of complaint about heartseeker too, but A LOT of people fail to realize that a thief completely traited for damage and crit, completely set and jeweled for damage and crit, if heartseeker doesn’t crit it does between 1-2k damage depending on your health. Most of the time when you are getting dropped quick and see heartseeker spammed on you. You are 9/10 either not paying attention to your health before the spamming begun, or had 1 or more enemies in ADDITION to the thief beating on you from range.

You can test it if you don’t believe me, even as fully offensive build, if you do a single #1 dagger attack chain and then spam heartseeker, and even if the target does not dodge, 8/10 they will STILL not be below 40% hp. You will also have used up all of your initiative. There are quite a few classes out there that have MORE mobility then a thief that can do equal or more damage in the same time as a heartseeker spam.

Pistol whip, complaining about is just silly no offense. The only time it actually works is when you have quickness (could argue venom). Thats quite a cooldown… and being reliant on 1 single effect is NOT what the class is designed around. So if anything pistol whip needs to be buffed majorly in the activation department, even if the damage is toned down.

Pistol Whip needs to be BUFFED? LOL? It’s easy mode stun + almost 20k damage. GG.

Second, you’re not doing 1 attack chain then spamming heartseeker. All you gotta do is 15k crit backstab with assassins signet then spam heartseeker. gg dead in 2 seconds.

Thieves are extremely OP, and it’s obvious you are one and is just afraid of not being OP anymore.

Instead of replying childishly you could try and apply some factual math from in game to back up your opinion.

The stun is extremely small duration (1/2s) and the entirely ability has a high activation time (over 1s), so try dodging. The damage is maybe half of what you stated, so please provide proof of it doing around 20k and show you ACTUALLY having armor equipped.
Backstab for 15k? Even with assassins signet you are not going to get hit by a 15k backstab. Assassin’s signet is 150% damage increase on next attack NOT 200+%, not only would that mean they have to have auto attack disabled, but the signet has a COOLDOWN and this requires them to be in STEALTH. Them building around, again 1 effect with a cooldown this time being 2, entirely is kittening them in the long run. ANY class in the game can build around 1 cooldown and can do nice burst in 1v1 situations.

If you read what I wrote, I said I would have no problem toning down the damage of PW if the activation time was buffed majorly.

The thief is supposed to be the most mobile class, currently is not, and their damage is fairly lackluster unless a few cooldowns are popped and/or they have group buffs( if you compare their damage vs survivability), which again, the class is NOT supposed to be designed around

Right, that was uncalled for, just upset about thekittenthieves.

But really, today i’ve been 12k backstabbed, a lot of 5-7k heartseekers, and a 17k pistol whip. I wear medium armor and have 5 points in toughness and 25k HP. For that pistol whip, as soon as i tried to dodge, most of the damage had already been done..

You may want to ask how they did that, or report them for exploiting. I can tell you as a thief player, and leveled one to 80, as well as done quite a bit of spvp and wvwvw. That the 12k backstab is VERY hard to pull off (aligning of the stars kind of thing) and consistant 5-7k heartseekers is impossible (which entails exploiting)

17k Pistol whip, still an aligning of the stars thing, could be assassins signet but still almost all the hits need to crit and/or you have stacks of vulnerability which is prob from someone else

Even with a full offensive glass cannon build against a non tank target, you heartseeker on non crit is gonna hit for 1-2k damage, which is very underpowered when you think about the normal Health pools classes have at 80. Assuming you have quite a bit of vulnerability stacked on you, they attacking your back/side, and they have a stack of 2 of might, you can see a 5-7k heartseeker but then again their crit rate is still not near 100%, so it is not gonna be consistent plus you can dodge 2 of them and again you gotta ask where those multiple vulnerability stacks came from etc (and this glass cannon thief is gonna have like 11k hp with the least toughness in the game)

I can see where you are coming from. I think dagger would make more sense as the main hand and the chain+blunt be offhand only. The problem is, a sword wouldn’t make much sense as a main hand, but I guess it is just a game.
No matter what weapon you use as main hand, except pistol, also doesn’t really use the point of the chain weapon as the basic attack and #2 attack will all be very close range, the chain weapon is supposed to incorporate an entire attack set that has a range less then a shortbow but more then dagger or sword.

Duckzor.4327:

Knyx.5926:

Yea most people hit it on the money… simple just dodge.
A lot of complaint about heartseeker too, but A LOT of people fail to realize that a thief completely traited for damage and crit, completely set and jeweled for damage and crit, if heartseeker doesn’t crit it does between 1-2k damage depending on your health. Most of the time when you are getting dropped quick and see heartseeker spammed on you. You are 9/10 either not paying attention to your health before the spamming begun, or had 1 or more enemies in ADDITION to the thief beating on you from range.

You can test it if you don’t believe me, even as fully offensive build, if you do a single #1 dagger attack chain and then spam heartseeker, and even if the target does not dodge, 8/10 they will STILL not be below 40% hp. You will also have used up all of your initiative. There are quite a few classes out there that have MORE mobility then a thief that can do equal or more damage in the same time as a heartseeker spam.

Pistol whip, complaining about is just silly no offense. The only time it actually works is when you have quickness (could argue venom). Thats quite a cooldown… and being reliant on 1 single effect is NOT what the class is designed around. So if anything pistol whip needs to be buffed majorly in the activation department, even if the damage is toned down.

Pistol Whip needs to be BUFFED? LOL? It’s easy mode stun + almost 20k damage. GG.

Second, you’re not doing 1 attack chain then spamming heartseeker. All you gotta do is 15k crit backstab with assassins signet then spam heartseeker. gg dead in 2 seconds.

Thieves are extremely OP, and it’s obvious you are one and is just afraid of not being OP anymore.

Instead of replying childishly you could try and apply some factual math from in game to back up your opinion.

The stun is extremely small duration (1/2s) and the entirely ability has a high activation time (over 1s), so try dodging. The damage is maybe half of what you stated, so please provide proof of it doing around 20k and show you ACTUALLY having armor equipped.
Backstab for 15k? Even with assassins signet you are not going to get hit by a 15k backstab. Assassin’s signet is 150% damage increase on next attack NOT 200+%, not only would that mean they have to have auto attack disabled, but the signet has a COOLDOWN and this requires them to be in STEALTH. Them building around, again 1 effect with a cooldown this time being 2, entirely is kittening them in the long run. ANY class in the game can build around 1 cooldown and can do nice burst in 1v1 situations.

If you read what I wrote, I said I would have no problem toning down the damage of PW if the activation time was buffed majorly.

The thief is supposed to be the most mobile class, currently is not, and their damage is fairly lackluster unless a few cooldowns are popped and/or they have group buffs( if you compare their damage vs survivability), which again, the class is NOT supposed to be designed around

Yea most people hit it on the money… simple just dodge.
A lot of complaint about heartseeker too, but A LOT of people fail to realize that a thief completely traited for damage and crit, completely set and jeweled for damage and crit, if heartseeker doesn’t crit it does between 1-2k damage depending on your health. Most of the time when you are getting dropped quick and see heartseeker spammed on you. You are 9/10 either not paying attention to your health before the spamming begun, or had 1 or more enemies in ADDITION to the thief beating on you from range.

You can test it if you don’t believe me, even as fully offensive build, if you do a single #1 dagger attack chain and then spam heartseeker, and even if the target does not dodge, 8/10 they will STILL not be below 40% hp. You will also have used up all of your initiative. There are quite a few classes out there that have MORE mobility then a thief that can do equal or more damage in the same time as a heartseeker spam.

Pistol whip, complaining about is just silly no offense. The only time it actually works is when you have quickness (could argue venom). Thats quite a cooldown… and being reliant on 1 single effect is NOT what the class is designed around. So if anything pistol whip needs to be buffed majorly in the activation department, even if the damage is toned down.

Could always make the chain and blunt be the mainhand and dagger offhand, and animations still show as them being all connected. Either way, you can’t compare it to the shortbow as it is a completely different weapon and does not mean it will be boring.
The problem with dagger offhand, as you say dual skill, is 2 of the dagger offhand abilities are very short range and wouldn’t really connect with the whole having a chain concept.

This would really add a new element to tear people from heartseeker only (as many complain about it) there really are no other dual abilities that fit into the class design, and pistol whip is extremely situational and most of the time requires quickness.

I think this weapon would make an amazing thief weapon if it were added to the game. It would also keep the versatility and at the same time stray some away from heartseeker all the way. The main purpose of the thief is not just harassment, or hit and run, however they are “supposed” to have the most mobility (which they don’t atm but I won’t get into that) and quite a few weapon combinations for the thief either don’t offer good mobility and damage, or require you and your target to be stationary (pistol whip) which is completely against the class design and only works intermittently. Ofc you also have some weapon combinations which have horrible damage and burst as well.

The weapon I had in mind is the Kyoketshu-Shoge

A picture can be seen of the weapon here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoketsu-shoge

and here:
http://www.trueswords.com/weapon-ninja-assassin-steel-ball-chain-p-5513.html

If implemented the weapon would probably have at least a few hundred range on most attacks if not more. Around the same range as the short bow or a little less on some attacks as well.

Considering it is still a dagger like weapon on one end and blunt on the other, this lays ground work for a nice combination of attacks and secondary conditions. Also with dodge animations, and many of the dagger animations, the “acrobatic” animations part shouldn’t be hard to implement.

I would like some constructive ideas related to this if you think it would be a nice touch even if it isn’t exactly “GW1” related.

(remember this weapon would be 2-handed)
I was thinking the primary (1) attack chain would include a modest range with damage similar to dagger’s (1) chain but somewhat less, except with a moderate bleed on the first attack and short cripple on the third.

(2) attack would probably consist of a pull like scorpion wire, or a short knockdown (like wrap their legs and pull).

(3) attack would probably consist of a short range hit with both ends causing high damage and either a stun or daze

(4) attack would probably consist of a longer range bleed/poison and daze combo with an evade flip

(5) attack would probably consist of an AoE spin of the weapon, unsure of any condition, damage or effect..

Long read, I know, but thank you anyway.