Guild Wars 2

Fenrir.5493:

I hope they address the thing that they have so much deathshroud that is just OP, before this it was fair but now they have like 3 bars of health, they should give this class another thing to move and not make them tanks, this is not good aproach because they are becoming really OP by having so much health.

Actually, all they did was fix a bug.

First, necros took double damage while in death shroud. Second, instead of only giving us 66% of our base health pool, death shroud now gives us 100% of our base health pool. So now all the claims that we have two health bars is correct, as before we had only 2/3rds of what we were originally supposed to have, and we took double damage.

DXIEdge.2789:

It was a bug. Unintended.

We freaked out when our teleport spots left, and you know what happened? We were told it was unintended. We were using a part of the game that should not have been there.

Same thing here. If you enter death shroud and you take 20k, the remainder should go to your health pool, which is the 2nd highest in the game ill add.

Quit complaining that a bug was fixed. And there is a little more emphasis on PvP right now because PvE is getting new content every 2 weeks and a major selling feature of GW2 is about to occur.

The two classes with the highest health (warrior and necro) also have the worst survivability of all classes in the game. Think about that for a moment.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The fix that is coming is in consideration of the time that we had to complete it. We are planning to rework some things when we have more time, but felt this would be sufficient for now, considering the first Qualifying tournament is tomorrow.

I suppose this is the most logical thing to do considering the circumstances. I hope you plan on re-evaluating Dhuumfire as a whole after the tournament. I still stand by my statement that a majority of necromancers would rather you get rid of it completely so you can stop nerfing us as a whole based on that one trait alone.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Hey everyone! We have elected to “hotfix” the Necro and split Dhuumfire to bring it down a bit in PvP. This change will be in today, with patch notes in the usual place.

Thanks for the feedback!

Can’t you just get rid of it? Go look at the necro sub forum. There is an overwhelming outcry from us that we never wanted burning in the first place. It doesn’t fit the classes theme, its already gotten several of our traits nerfed as a result, and its causing nothing but trouble for everyone.

Another nerf necro thread. Really? We have enough of these already.

milo.6942:

hey man, i mostly agree with you, but i think it’s replies like these that make devs not post in forums

Its feedback. If Jon looked at the other forums, he’d see a lot worse than what I wrote. What I wrote is tame by comparison. Very tame. He still needs to know that there is a growing (and getting larger every day) number of people becoming very discontent with the design decisions. Now that we understand where these design decisions are coming from, we need to voice our opinion about them. Balancing this game around spvp is a horrible idea.

Most of us right now are extremely confused as to why they refuse to separate the two like they did in GW1. Its extremely disappointing for us and does not bode well for the future of this title.

JonathanSharp.7094:

THe reason I quickly jump into the sPvP forums is because that’s usually the best place to talk overall game balance.

This is not something I wanted to read. You’ve basically just told everyone that most of the time you don’t even bother reading the class sub forums, and that if we want any kind of balance attention outside of spvp we need to come here to vent our frustrations. Balancing the entire game around spvp is a really, REALLY bad idea. The ONLY ideas for balancing you’re going to get in this sub forum will revolve around spvp. Its already been shown that this game mode is by far the least popular thing your game holds. You’re just shooting yourself in the foot by coming here looking for balance info.

I don’t even know what to think about all this, but I’m seriously disappointed, and appalled at this whole situation. This forum is by far the worst place to get objective feedback. Its full of nothing but people attempting to get one class or another nerfed so they can continue face rolling with their current build/team set ups.

At this point, the only way you can save your game is to just bite the bullet and split balance between the two. You cannot balance your entire game around spvp. It will not work and will do nothing but make your greater population base angry and quit. spvp is not your greater population base. Not even by a mile.

We need to see more presence in the class forums rather than just in this forum like we’re seeing now. It makes me feel like they’re only balancing around tPvP and ignoring the rest of the game.

Thesilentflute.8761:

1/2 second cast time on marks so you cant faceroll the keyboard and put every condi on your target

They already have a 3/4 second cast time.

Also, as a necromancer, I agree with everyone in this thread about removing Dhuumfire. It wasn’t needed. Necromancers did not need more damage. We needed better survivability.

The development process seems to be going backwards with this class. “Oh, you’re having a survivability problem? Lets add moar damage! What? Doing to much damage now? Ok, lets nerf two traits that existed in their current state since forever and was never OP to begin with while leaving the broken trait alone. That will fix it!”

I can’t stress this enough to you developers. Go to the necro boards. Read the threads there (I know Jon Peters does every once in a while, but the rest of you seriously need to spend more time there. There is a serious detachment with what you think is happening and what is actually happening with this class it seems). The seemingly unanimous voice on the necro forum is that no one even wanted Dhuumfire. No one wants Dhuumfire. We do not understand why you gave it to us in the first place. Most of us, if not all of us, want you to get rid of this stupid trait so you can stop nerfing our pre-existing non-broken traits. Get rid of Dhuumfire! It was a bad idea! Its ok to be wrong and reverse decisions, but for the love of god stop nerfing everything else we have because of it!

I don’t even understand this development process you guys have. You guys ruined my old build. 0/30/10/0/30. I wasn’t even using Dhuumfire. I never wanted to use it, but now I can’t do what I’ve always been doing because Greater Marks is one tier higher. I’ve quickly discovered that having blockable marks is pretty terrible. I want my old build back that was never cried about or considered OP in the slightest.

Bas.7406:

Shar.3402:

QtHman.6502:

If you are knocked down while in DS, you are knocked out of DS for 10 seconds. So if I am on the ground and it’s on a 10 sec CD how am I supposed to activate it.

Is this a new change? or maybe i spend a whole year in this game and didn’t know about this one.

Can someone please test this and correct me if i’m wrong.

I can tell you for sure that the dodge train golem (that pushes you back) and the engineer npc (which knocks you back with rifle) don’t kick you out of DS.
I can tell you for sure that knockdown (earthquake) doesn’t kick you out of DS.

Unless it was fixed in the last patch Updraft, The Necro Golem, Flamethrower push back and the warrior stomp all knocked and put DS on CD.

This has never, ever, happened to me on my necro. Never once have I been knocked out of DS unless I ran out of life force.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We just increased the death shroud for the main hand skills this patch, which therefore should therefore reduce the Necro’s reliance on spectral skills for sustainability……?

Did you read the notes RonPierce?

Scepter LF generation is still pretty terrible, as the only LF generation it has is scepter ability 3, and its pretty bad as an ability (maybe add torment to it?) since it has 0 synergy with condi builds. Adding maybe 2% LF on the final attack in the auto attack chain of scepter would go a LONG way in addressing condi build LF generation problems.

Dagger off hand doesn’t have any LF generation what so ever. Possibly adding LF generation to the number 4 skill so that there is at least some consistency here, as every weapon has at least one LF generating ability except dagger off-hand.

Warhorn does have LF generation with the number 4 skill, but that requires us to be in melee range, where a condi necro doesn’t want to be. It is also a very small amount at 1% per hit.

Focus has good LF generation with the number 4 skill, but focus has no synergy with condi builds at all (its a power weapon).

Staff auto attack is still extremely unreliable for generating LF, has no synergy with condi builds, and the projectile is still to slow/easily side stepped to be considered reliable.

Right now, condition builds still rely greatly on spectral skills to generate life force. They have no choice as there are currently no other alternatives.

Lich Form just needs to be shrunk down a bit. I don’t see why it has to be so enormous.

I has another.

15 charr.

Flesh Golem

Pros - Low cool down at only 60 seconds. Has an even lower secondary cool down of only 30 seconds when summoned. Secondary source of damage. Has a strong CC effect that can hit multiple targets if lined up properly. Will absolutely obliterate stationary targets (siege, supply barrels, weapon racks) that condition builds have difficulty in damaging.

Cons - Its a minion. Suffers from the same AI and pathing problems that all other minions suffer from. Easily killed even after the buff to its HP. Can become a liability if facing another condition build necromancer who is smart about using epidemic. Cannot be used under water.

Lich Form

Pros - Extremely high direct damage output. Increased all stats for 30 seconds. One of only two sources of long lasting stability.

Cons - You become a massive HIT ME sign when you transform. Using any of the other 4 abilities will actually lower your DPS output, however, ability 3 and 5 still has its uses and is worth using in those situations. Will kill all your minions if you have any out. You cannot generate Life Force while transformed. Long cool down at 3 minutes. Cannot be used under water.

Plague Form

Pros - Extremely durable, especially when using the blind form. With bleed duration, can stack up to 10 stacks of bleeds on multiple targets at once with the bleed plague if they remain near you quickly and easily. One of only two sources of long duration stability.

Cons - Without bleed duration, bleed plague is not worth using. Very low damage output. Will kill all your minions if you have any out. You cannot generate Life Force while transformed. Long cool down at 3 minutes. The number 3 ability is completely useless and over shadowed by the number 2 ability, as it is better to make your target miss completely than to reduce its damage by half.

vicious.5683:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

New Spite Adept Major:

Forstbite. Deals damage to the target when you inflict Chill. (scales off Power)

Makes for an interesting synergy with something the necro is already very good at. Damage wouldn’t have to be high, due to the ease for necros to cause Chill, but on the upside, it’s something every necro can make some use of. It’s also not a DoT, so the damage can’t be cleansed off.

Change Dhuumfire for Dhuumfrost:
Chilling does damage
Don’t listen to ppl who will say “oh no that would be too OP” it would not.

another one:
Eluding Death
Gain 4% life force when you dodge roll

Add “while in combat”. Otherwise, sounds pretty good.

ronpierce.2760:

Reanimator (lose the adept minor)

When a minion dies summon a Jagged Horror in it’s place. (Doesn’t effect Jagged Horrors) Decreases the cooldown on minion abilities by 20%.

(Merged New reanimator with Minion Master)

I like this idea. Its actually something that Necromancers had in GW1 as well. When Shambling Horrors died, a Jagged Horror would spawn in its place.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Shambling_Horror
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jagged_Horror

Why do thieves think they have a right to 1vEverybody in every situation?

The charr are “cat like”. Genetically speaking, they’re probably distantly related (very distantly) to cats, but their behavior is vastly different.

Bubbles.1047:

Nemesis.8593:

Darek.1836:

yup because casting 2-3 marks while running away from me and putting around 8 conditions, ticking me for 2k per second with chill and sometimes cripple as well definitely means Im winning.

8 Conditions that tick 2k per second = 16K DPS, you will die in 1.5 seconds… how come i don’t die in 1.5 seconds from other necromancers… must be my baus aura. Hmm… how come i don’t kill other people in 1.5 seconds ?…

Awww man… baus aura is broken.

Really? Are you that kitten? They meant a TOTAL of 2k per second, not 8×2k. Some people…

Considering that thieves can burst upwards of 8k DPS, and warriors churn out a consistent 4k DPS if in melee range… thats pretty low.

Velron.3729:

I added a suggestion in the suggestion forum a couple weeks back, not even asking for nerfs to Necro damage or any of that – but just a short maybe 1second activation time for the marks. Similar to the way an Engineer bomb must have the 1second before it explodes and applies the condition.

They already do. It takes 3/4th of a second to cast marks.

Dina Van Heyr.3018:

after 34956847336649 tries adnul somehow forgot to spam critique every possible time and i got lucky and beat him with 600 hp and only bleach left which i used to finish him off .. i will newer touch that content again

Yep, just like the Aetherblade jumping puzzle… Never again.

Lily Miranda.5407:

Rejuvenation boosters still work. I managed to beat Adnul last night after several hours thanks to boosters. It’s still pure, dumb luck, but it at least makes your odds slightly better.

Thanks for the tip. I was finally able to beat him using these boosters after wasting 7 hours of my life in front of Adnul. It STILL took several tries though. This guy is so horribly broken that even when cheating its still nearly impossible and all about random dumb luck. They should have to follow the same rules we do. Allowing them to spam their signature moves like that is very obvious artificial difficulty. Terrible design.

Oh boy, the karka achievs stopping to count, and working for a day, and stopping again, and working again, and them not working for what? 7-10 days till the end of the southsun arc was the biggest F-you that Anet gave to the community so far, i was amazed.

I was trying to get the crabs achievs and it was broken, not counting crabs carried, nothing. Then it activity was removed. Now this norn can belch with a smaller cooldown than players, is it how it is supposed to work?

Yep, had the same issue with the Southsun events. Was unable to finish the crabgrabber achievements because of this bug.

Seriously ANet, these problems are bad and you should feel bad.

Pendragon.8735:

Spectral walk is also amazing for trying tricky jumps, and if you fail – instant do over!

I don’t use Flesh Worm a lot but it might be handy here too.

It functions like shadowstep, so unless you can walk to the location normally, it won’t work.

Spectral Walk on the other hand, absolutely amazing for “testing” spots that you my or may not be able to jump to.

Only class that would even remotely benefit from celestial would be elementalists and possibly guardians.

Turrets/Gate Controller thing in CoF path 1. Projectile just flies over them.

Quite a view from up here.

My camera is angled straight down if you can’t tell.

Damage still works as far as I know. The duration still gets reduced, however, so if its under 1 second, the damage may not tick.

jportell.2197:

Kravick.4906:

jportell.2197:

Only some did you not see how TP steamrolled through all opposition because of 2 necros (they said so) with absolutely no bunker that should be a huge hint hint also the trams they faced generally had a bunker guard/ele both of which have some of the best Condi removal in the game… Condition cleave is the meta right now mate its sad but true.

So one team does it and suddenly its now “The Meta”? Yeah, no, I’m not buying it. I still run into way more power/burst/bunker teams than I am teams that focus on conditions.

Maybe this thread will show you more than its just “one team”
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Worse-Meta-EVER/first

Yeah, I’ve seen that thread. Its just more whining and doesn’t really prove anything.

jportell.2197:

Only some did you not see how TP steamrolled through all opposition because of 2 necros (they said so) with absolutely no bunker that should be a huge hint hint also the trams they faced generally had a bunker guard/ele both of which have some of the best Condi removal in the game… Condition cleave is the meta right now mate its sad but true.

So one team does it and suddenly its now “The Meta”? Yeah, no, I’m not buying it. I still run into way more power/burst/bunker teams than I am teams that focus on conditions.

Lightsbane.9012:

Kravick.4906:

I’d rather see greatsword, but whatever.

greatsword: warrior
greataxe: executioner. and/or necromancer. angel of death, get it?

The Angel of Death is said to have used a Greatsword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_%28archangel%29

Anyway, we still need a cleave weapon. I don’t care what we get to do it with. Personally, I’d rather stab people with a spear or trident on land (Kraitkin anyone?), but I don’t see ANet reworking the system to allow underwater weapons on land any time soon.

Homonavn.6348:

What i dont get is…

They add a new trait that applies burning right..? And then suddenly terror which has been in the game since release OP?! WHAT THE F anet?

People have been using terror since foreever, thats not the problem. The problem is dhuumfire and burning not working for necros… We already have strong condition builds with bleed, torment and terror… Fire makes it OP

This is exactly why I’ll be very upset if they nerf terror because of what our “representative” says. Terror has been fine for months. If anything needs to be nerfed, its burning. Either take it away completely (preferable) or nerf its up time/cool down. No one asked for burning. We didn’t need burning. We asked for survivability so we could be the advertised attrition class. Not to be a condition burst class. Nerfing terror will destroy the other builds that rely on it. The ones that DON’T take Dumbfire.

flow.6043:

Kravick.4906:

flow.6043:

And no, it would not be fine on other classes, but guess what… they don’t have that kind of condition pressure available. No class ever had up until now.

Engineer.

Yeah, if engineers had torment and fear+terror then people would complain about Incendiary Powder too… or the combination of it all.

They were, or don’t you remember? The lack of fear+terror was made up for by having confusion and any where from 20-25 stacks of might. Do you know how hard those grenades hit for with 25 stacks of might?

flow.6043:

And no, it would not be fine on other classes, but guess what… they don’t have that kind of condition pressure available. No class ever had up until now.

Engineer.

flow.6043:

This.
Other classes, who specifically build to counter conditions can’t keep up. Then there are people arguing we should let the meta adept first… well, how much more can you do besides melandru and lemongrass? And how is this supposed to be balance when all classes have to max out their anti-condi defense (which is still not enough) just because of the necro?

No one should be able to completely shut down a condition user with a billion condition clears. This is part of the reason necromancers were bad in competitive team play before. Necromancers couldn’t keep up with the condition clears and it was impossible for necros to cover their bleed stack. They couldn’t kill anyone using a full condition clear set up. So now that necromancers can actually do some damage with their conditions, this is somehow deemed OP and needs nerfed? I don’t buy it one bit.

Alpha.1308:

Fjandi.2516:

Ofc they are going to overnerf it like they did with other things in this game.

THIS game?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter's_Boon_

Holy nerfbats! Talk about over nerfing.

flow.6043:

Many have said it already in this thread: other classes don’t have as effective cleanses as the necro. At some point other classes will get overwhelmed with conditions without being able to do anything about it.

This is what I don’t understand when people whine about this. If a necro is incapable of overwhelming condition clears, a necro will never do any damage. The opposing class will always kill the necromancer.

Are you saying that you want the necromancer to never be able to deal their damage with conditions? Because that is exactly what you and everyone else are saying right now.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Skyro.3108:

1) Putrid was already nerfed this last patch. It transfers 3 condis off yourself per target hit. I believe it also just transfers 3 condis off allies now as well regardless of the number of targets hit but I haven’t gotten around to testing that yet. IMO this was a good change.

This is not true at all. Putrid mark was buffed substantially by making it TRANSFER blinds instead of blinds making it miss. This was the only change to putrid mark.

Sounds like someone is jumping on the OP bandwagon without checking his facts, or reading this thread.

Azraeel.1238:

I agree with Nemesis.

@flow.6043, what builds were your thief friends playing? If they were playing glass cannon then they deserve what came to them. If they were playing S/D then that would be the worst build EVER against a necromancer! I would love nothing more than any class to stand in front of me and try to melee me, and I’m a powermancer. Have your friends put 30 in shadow arts, pick up D/P or D/D and try to duel you again….

Actually, S/D is one of the better builds to use against necromancers right now. Between the evades, dazes, and blinds, a necro is going to have a very hard time even landing a single mark on them.

Be honest. Is that burst really any different than what thieves can do to people? I bet you can kill a person faster than a necro can with a glass cannon build.

Sword/dagger does really well against necros still BTW.

These threads never work. At this point, people are just bandwagoning on the OP train. They heard that necros are OP and so they blame that instead of the 6 times they walked into spectral wall for the reason they lost.

Frostedblaze.9017:

But Anet added burning (damage boost), torment (extra condi= more damage from other sources), Spectral wall (more control), Across the board well cooldown reduction, Easier life force gain,

No one wanted burning. I have no idea why they gave it to us and I wish they’d take it back. It doesn’t fit the theme of the class in the slightest. This one trait is going to get us nerfed back into uselessness. ANet is stubborn and won’t admit that they made a mistake, so they’ll take a chuck out of something else to compensate. Most likely terror because its the most complained about thing right now. This will hurt us over all in a bad way and break all of the old, still functional, builds that did not go 30 points into spite. This will pigeon hole condition necros into going 30/30/10 if they even want to maintain a decent level of damage output any more.

Torment sucks. Seriously, look at your combat log after a necro kills you. Torment will be the last on the list and it will have done less than one quarter of your life in total damage.

Spectral wall is a L2P issue as it does not fear you unless you run INTO it. Spectral Wall will not do anything to you if you have it dropped on top of you.

Wells are a power thing. Condition necros do not use wells except for maybe Well of Darkness/Power, which both do 0 damage and do not give any LF.

“Easier Lifeforce gain” on weapons that actually generated life force in the first place. The only skill that gives life force on scepter is the number 3 skill, and you’ll only get maybe 8% if the target has enough conditions on them. Thats not enough to even go into DS if you had no life force to begin with. Dagger off-hand has no life force generation what so ever. Staff auto attack got a 1% increase per hit, but you’re not going to hit anything with it. You must spend 20 points into a tree that does not benefit condition specs in any way to achieve a 3% life force per mark (Soul Marks) triggered trait (not per target, per trigger. One mark = 3% period, regardless of how many people it hits). This OP spec everyone is complaining about does not go into this tree, so they do not have this trait. You must give up burning to acquire Soul Marks. A condition necro is not going to be using any other combination other than Scepter/Dagger and Staff. Possibly Scepter/WH and Staff, but this is pretty rare and not normal. WH doesn’t generate LF for squat and was not buffed by the increased LF gain.

Beyond this, two things got nerfed this patch that also hurt us in a bad way. Corrupt Boon now only corrupts 5 boons, stability being the last on the list to be corrupted. AKA, if the target has 6 boons and one of them is stability, stability will not be corrupted. We can no longer break bunkers as a result. Putrid Mark also got nerfed (this was a stealth nerf, they didn’t even tell us about this one). It is no longer a full condition transfer. It now only transfers a possible total of 3 conditions per target hit from the necromancer, with allies only transferring 3 conditions period.

fakeblood.2576:

I have to agree it should not transfer all conditions. Just like carrupt boon should not convert all boons

It doesn’t…

Why do people not read threads any more?

Caffynated.5713:

Kuull.3147:

Just to say, I did NOT read the entire thread…

But just reading the first line of the OP, has made me make this post. “They’ve just became viable” – viable as in kittening overpowered? Yup sure, viable indeed for the person playing one. The amount of damage the conditions is doing at the moment is simply kittened. Even with my Condi remove build I lost a massive amount of health in mere seconds.

That does not mean it’s balanced, it’s completely the other way around. And I play an Elementalist, with somewhat moderate amounts (as some may know) of abilities to remove conditions.

You’re fighting a glass cannon…

Of course you’re going to lose chunks of health. If you can just hit a button and erase 7+ cooldowns worth of conditions before they do any damage, how is a glass cannon necro going to kill you?

Condi removal is your toughness against conditions. It’s not supposed to make you immune, it’s supposed to lower the damage you take as you stack more. How much health do you lose in mere seconds when a 30 30 0 0 10 D/D thief spikes you? You’ll take more damage in that half second than you will in 6+ of being caught in a necro fear chain.

Yes, but a thief chunking your health in 2 seconds is apparently more balanced than necromancers doing the same thing, but in 6 seconds instead.

I use flesh wurm all the time. I use it so much that I gave him a name. His name is Karl.

Karl goes up before I engage any enemy. Karl gets used a lot to juke enemies, escape bad situations, avoid an incoming burst, and as a stun breaker. I try to fight away from Karl as much as possible so the enemy doesn’t see where I teleport too. Sometimes I even use Karl to catch people trying to run away from me.

I don’t really know what I’d replace Karl with. Hes pretty much glued to my utility bar in PVP. The ability to get out of a bad situation or focus fire train is just to good to let go IMO.

I have to be proactive about using Karl if I get caught in a fight without having him up. I’ll typically try to place him behind things or up on ledges (teleport functions like shadowstep and can get you up on certain higher elevations) during a fight so people don’t see where I’ve teleported too if I need it.

I don’t think anyone wanted burning. We wanted the ability to live longer than 3 seconds if focus fired. We’re supposed to be attrition class, which is actually something we’re still pretty bad at.

I think people are forgetting the part where engineers using HGH can still hit pretty freakin hard with their grenades direct damage because of all the might stacks they get. It kinda events out, with necromancers maybe having a slight edge, but the damage isn’t all that much higher. The direct damage portion of the grenades boosted by might is going to equal the damage we deal through terror. The only reason this is a problem is because of the CC effect, which the HGH build doesn’t have any of. Engineers will have access to confusion, which beats torment by a mile, as well.

Make no mistake, a well played HGH engineer (able to stack 25 might obviously) will still melt you just as quickly as a 30/30/10 necromancer. IMO, its only “OP” because people aren’t used to necromancers being able to do the same thing that engineers have been doing all along.

If anything, I want them to get rid of Dhuumfire if it comes down to nerfing our damage some where. Terror was fine before. Nerf the terror damage now and necromancers will be forced into Dhuumfire if they wish to remain competitive. This will also break any 0/30/x/x/20 build that we had before, which were never deemed OP up until this point. Doing so would be going against what ANet wants by restricting our builds, not expanding them. Honestly, no one even asked for burning that I can remember. We wanted better sustain (survivability), not extra damage.

(it isnt in pve and wvwvw, but it is mantatory in pvp for staff users).

Actually, I would say that greater marks is mandatory in WvW. Part of a necromancers job is area denial, especially on tower/keep walls. Without Greater Marks, you’re not doing that at all. No, the smaller mark sizes don’t effectively keep people away from the walls edge. They’ll just walk around them and your enemy will able to attack people below.

As far as not needing it in PVE, well thats debatable, but it effectively makes staff viable as an AoE weapon. Without the big marks, you’ll hit 2, possibly 3 targets if you do a lot of juggling to get NPCs clumped together. Forget about it if you’ve got NPCs with ranged weapons. They’ll never clump up. With Greater Marks, you spend way less time NPC juggling and more time actually landing your marks on multiple targets. Thus less time spent moving from target to target trying to hit at least 2 NPCs at once.

RaynStargaze.6510:

wow spending 10 trait points to make a weapon viable thats really an investment which is not worth the reward.. no other class has to do this…

Can’t tell if sarcasm or genuine.

Flumek.9043:

And it should be toned down as a condi itself. Its meant as a bonus to power users, therefore its hould have bad scaling with cond dmg/even fixed amount ~400dps. And its TOO EASY and CONSTANT to apply.

What? Are you serious? Its on a 40 second cool down, applies one stack per second for a grand total of 3 stacks, and only if you stay within 600 range of the necromancer when activated. Big green lines jump out and attach themselves to you. The only possible way to make this indicator any more loud and obvious would be to have big red letters that are half the size of the screen start flashing in front of you saying, “DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW DODGE NOW!”

The damage itself is also quite bad. It does 50% damage of a bleed tick when you don’t move. Thats half the damage of a single bleed, and individual bleeds tick for diddly squat and are only dangerous in stacks of 10 or higher. If you move with torment on, it only ticks twice per second instead of once. Taking twice of diddly squat is still diddly squat!

Next time you’re in tPvP and you die to a necromancer, look at where your damage sources are coming from. Bleeding will be at the top, followed by either fear or burning damage (they sometimes switch places), with torment dead last. Torment doesn’t even make up 1/4th of the total over all damage that you will have taken.