Guild Wars 2

I noticed similar with some escort missions. Ideally, they should either make it a tad more forgiving or find some way to let us show the game that we are participating, beyond the mobs themselves, cause it has always been an issue (albeit a minor one for the most part) that when an escort type mission has tons of people doing it, it becomes difficult to tag the mobs, period. It’s just more noticeable now with the credit change.

Hawken son of Z.1367:

I must say.. it felt nice to have something that felt some what difficult and time consuming to work for.. and tbh.. it only took me about 15 hours of game play to reach that goal. (full reaper spec)

I never felt like Anet treated me badly by making the Elite spec fairly difficult and time consuming to get. I was happy to put the time in.. I guess maybe this is one of the differences between my generation of gamers.. and the new generation of gamers who are used to playing games where everything is handed to them.

I guess theres no much else to say or explain. I’m disappointed Anet felt the need to cater to what I felt like where a few people per a thousand who whined about not getting their ELITE spec on day one. I disagree with your decision to change it, and I think you should be a little, not a lot, but a little ashamed of yourselfs for holding these players hands.

Does the concept that you got there before most people, using the old system, mean anything to you? That’s bragging rights right there bro.

hotfreak.5907:

Thanks for the update. Do you know how the elite spec requirement reduction will be implemented? Will we be refunded HPs that we’ve already spent? Or will what we have not yet unlocked just cost less?

From the blog post:

If you’ve already put more than 250 points into your elite specialization, surplus hero points will be refunded to your character for future use.

It’s still going to be pretty painful for alts, but I appreciate that they’re making a compromise in a timely manner.

Iozeph.5617:

I just want to know where and what rock Mike O’Brien’s been hiding under during all of this and what he has to say about it(HoT) and for himself. He’s been markedly quiet/absent during this whole situation. It’s his company, his game, and his manifesto, after all.

He convinced quite a few disaffected players to pull up stakes and leave their games to come to this one, yet he’s not even posted to explain why GW2 has suddenly taken this turn away from his statement.

He needs to explain. You don’t get to badmouth -even indirectly- your competitors products only to end up emulating them without taking some sort of flak for doing it.

Will he risk being pilloried coming out and posting a statement? Perhaps. But that’s the cost of being foolish enough to issue such a manifesto in the first place. Love it or not, that’s where these player expectations have come from.

It’s time to put up, Mr. O’Brien.

Sadly, I don’t think him saying something would mean much. He probably had jack-all to do with this feature being implemented in the way it was. TBH, I’d be shocked if he reads the forums at all. Call me cynical, but he’s the president of the company and that usually involves a busy schedule.

One thing that can help with avoiding spilling stuff, even when you mark a thread as having spoilers, is to talk in code words that only people who have seen the content will understand. For example, say you have a battle where you are fighting a mob that is physically big. You could say “the big guy.”

Just imagine you are a spy who has to keep secrets and you’ll probably get the idea.

Even if it is an issue, it won’t last (though I am not against them moving the availability of the thing if it helps people). I think it’s safe to say that most of the event problems at the moment are a product of “most people have no clue what to do” and will sort themselves out as more people become comfortable with what is expected of them.

I saw it happen firsthand with Silverwastes. In the beginning, it was loads of fail left and right. I left for a while and came back a few months later, and it was super rare to see a fail. The trick is, you don’t need everybody to be great. You just need something like 20-25%. Right now, that number is probably something like 5% because even great players are still learning the content.

It would be much loved if gliding one day extended to non-maguuma maps, which I suspect they are planning to do eventually because otherwise, the feature is kind of a waste in the long-term.

I’m afraid I’m not seeing the specifics of where exactly gliding would have a significant impact on how quickly people can do old content. Jumping puzzles, I guess, is one, but that’s all I can think of and in most cases, gliding to the ground is not going to save your jumping puzzle attempt. It just might save you from a few deaths. There is no way to glide upward without an updraft that I know of and jump puzzles are usually designed such that you have to jump steadily upward.

Breaking the map… I can see that maybe being an issue, but it should be fixable. Has a dev actually commented on that or are people just speculating that the maps would not be able to handle it?

Chipofsalt.4673:

Labjax.2465:

Chipofsalt.4673:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

With very few exceptions, you don’t need gliding either. But the zones would be a lot less fun without it.

…..

Chipofsalt.4673:

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

And making them cost 400 HP (e.g. either all 40 HoT HP or 20 HoT HP and 200 Tyria) does not keep them in line with non-elite specs.

Read my above posts.

No.

Chipofsalt.4673:

1) You don’t need your elite spec to play through HoT.

With very few exceptions, you don’t need gliding either. But the zones would be a lot less fun without it.

Chipofsalt.4673:

2) It’s an elite spec – it shouldn’t be cheap by its nature.

They are elite in name only, not in power.

Chipofsalt.4673:

3) It incentivizes map completion and/or WvW participation.

Map completion already has rewards, which incentivizes map completion and has never needed incentivizing beyond that. WvW participation does not need such an incentive either, nor does the process of getting elite specs through WvW incentivize playing it when you normally don’t, since it’s such a slow alternative.

Chipofsalt.4673:

4) You don’t need the entire line unlocked for it to be used (or even useful).

Useful, yes. Weak and suboptimal, also yes.

Chipofsalt.4673:

5) Keeping them character bound keeps it in line with non-elite specs.

And making them cost 400 HP (e.g. either all 40 HoT HP or 20 HoT HP and 200 Tyria) does not keep them in line with non-elite specs.

Keep an eye on LFG. I don’t know if it’s still true now after HoT hit, but shortly before it, I saw LFG Dry Top runs every now and then.

Deviant.2304:

Why is everyone attempted to get these elite specializations if they do not want to play any of the content. That is what I wish to know?! Lol still piecing this together?

You’re never going to piece it together with false assumptions. If you truly want to understand, go read, in detail, the last 10-20 pages of the mega thread on elite specs.

If, after that, you still don’t understand, then I suggest logging out of the forums and playing the game instead.

Dashingsteel.3410:

“it’s called elite specialization and shouldn’t be unlockable in a day”

Yes, it is called “elite”. That is the problem. There is nothing elite about these specializations. Because of pvp balance issues and pay to win concerns these specializations are no more powerful than the regular professions. So if these specs are on par with normal profession then their trait lines and utility costs should be the same as normal traits and utilities. There also shouldn’t be one huge upgrade wheel. There should be an elite trait line wheel and an elite utility wheel.

Elite is just an illusion. Fake progression is insulting.

I’m glad someone else understands this, that elite specs are basically a cosmetic upgrade with a couple new abilities, and the name elite is little more than lipstick that is causing people to have false perceptions about what the specs are worth (mainly in the direction of believing that they are worth the 400 HP, when they really aren’t).

I love how people make individual threads for this, as if they need to get the message out that the people who have issues with the expansion are simply confused and with a little clarification, they’ll understand that their subjective impressions of the game are objectively wrong.

The whole back and forth between community members is sort of like Xbox vs. PS arguments, or Coke vs. Pepsi. “Why can’t you see that your subjective impressions and tastes are objectively wrong?” Although, it’s more the one side telling the other that, while the other side endlessly clarifies that no, they aren’t even claiming their impressions are objective, they’re just making themselves heard.

Where are people getting this 7 million number? It sounds like an absolute fairy tale.

Eneldiar.9670:

Labjax.2465:

I hate to harsh your mellow, bro, but if it was like a leveling cap, the elite specs would require XP. I have never heard of a level cap increase that requires you to go do special challenges across four different maps, some of which are gated behind XP just to access them at all, to level up your character.

If you compare it to a level cap increase, then it’s kind of like this: Level up a few times in layer one of level cap increase, so that you can go do a special challenge to level up once in layer two of level cap increase. If you put it in the framework of a level cap increase, it would be horribly convoluted.

I didn’t mean to literally compare it, my bad.

When people level from 1-80 “the first time” it’s usually somewhat fun because people aren’t so focused on the end goal, they’re actually enjoying the content and getting to 80 is simply a byproduct of their questing/exploring. If people viewed the unlocking of an elite mastery in the same way, it wouldn’t be as painful.

I’m not disagreeing that this “you need this to get this to try this to obtain this” method is right and doesn’t need adjusting to make it better, but if we had it unlocked immediately like everyone wants than it kinda defeats the purpose in my head.

I can agree with you on that, to a point. I would have been, and still am, ok with the idea of elite unlocks that are XP based, even if they were character unlock… then it truly would be like a level cap increase, which I’m fine with because XP is something you can get from just about any game type. The difference between what you’re describing and what it is now, for me, is that when I was leveling my characters, I could easily switch to a different type of content if I got burned out on one type.

I have leveled 8 characters, one of each original class, in that system, where I could avoid burnout by switching content types. Now I am confronted with a system where I can’t do that to get my characters up to speed, which is more or less the same issue I had with the old traits system.

I might be able to “ignore and enjoy the content” for character one, but that won’t fly for 2 or 3 or 4 and so on. Nobody is making me maintain 8 characters, of course, but it is a huge disappointment that the system is more or less anti-alt, when Anet has made so many conscious steps to make the game more alt-friendly, including the mastery system itself… a system that came with the xpac.

FinalPatriot.8034:

I took a look at Metacritic a few moments ago and the expansion is only scoring at 6.9 right now. That’s pretty darn sad as GW2 was the best MMO on the market for years. I hate seeing the HP issue tearing down such a good game.

I wish Anet would fix this and turn the expansion back to the core game of no grinding/casual friendly.

It is pretty silly because the HP issue is probably the only thing holding back that rating from being through the roof right now.

I hate to harsh your mellow, bro, but if it was like a leveling cap, the elite specs would require XP. I have never heard of a level cap increase that requires you to go do special challenges across four different maps, some of which are gated behind XP just to access them at all, to level up your character.

If you compare it to a level cap increase, then it’s kind of like this: Level up a few times in layer one of level cap increase, so that you can go do a special challenge to level up once in layer two of level cap increase. If you put it in the framework of a level cap increase, it would be horribly convoluted.

Pezz.4758:

thanks, honestly at this point with these responses i may take your advice.

EVEN IF i concede that my opinion doesnt matter and and im wrong.

1 thing is undeniable. with this expansion the awesome friendliest MMO community in modern games has been torn apart and destroyed by HoT. People are super defensive on either side of the table, quick to call names or shoo people away.

Whether you like HoTs systems or dont, SOMETHING is wrong when an otherwsie amazing community is torn apart and recesses back to the typical mmo playerbase.

Yeah, the anger at each other is pretty horrific. It makes me think of something said years ago… I think it was said by a lead guy at another MMO company (the details are fuzzy). The gist of what he said was, we’d always prefer that you hate us than hate each other. And right now, a lot of people are directing their ire toward each other, which is always worse than directing it at the company itself. Because the players and the devs don’t have to play together with few exceptions, but the community does have to play together and in this game most of all, where grouping and community is so important, a playerbase at war is a playerbase that can’t enjoy the content together.

I even saw it make its way into a HoT map chat the other day. Two people arguing about the elite specs and the grind aspect and being every bit as close-minded and disparaging of the other side as some of the arguments on the forums.

Hate to say it, but your best bet is probably to take a break for a couple of weeks and check back for signs of changes every so often. That is, unless there is enough content you are enjoying aside from the elites that will entertain you for a while.

I have more or less boycotted hero points at this point. Every time I get a muse in me to go for one, it seems like 9 out of 10 times, it’s locked behind a mastery that I don’t have yet. So I’m just like… I will enjoy the other stuff for now and bide my time. I see no point in breaking my back over it this soon. If they do change it for the better, I will have wasted time on the old system and if they don’t, I probably won’t be sticking around for the long haul anyway.

Seera.5916:

Like I said, they would need to keep us posted and post more information than usual if the fix isn’t a quick one. Like in 1 week, if a solution isn’t found go:

“Hey, we’re still working on a solution. We’ve decided to do an optional story mission unlock that will reward you with 40 Notarized Scrolls of Maguuma Heroics (they complete 1 one random hero challenge in Heart of Maguuma). This is going to take some time as we need to get the voice actors in studio for recording. And write scripts. And code the story mission. We’re also trying to figure out how to keep both methods in game for those who don’t mind the hero point challenge and want it to be a challenge. This is going to take a week or two to make sure we have as few bugs as possible and we may need more time if a voice actor isn’t immediately available.”

Then weekly updates on the progress if it isn’t out within the week.

It would also be a different story if they never plan to add anymore elite specs. But they do. Their solution to the elites now sets a precedent for all future elite specs. Future ones can’t be any easier or harder on average than the ones we’ve got now. I’d rather not have the quick solution be found and it just be a tolerable one. Because then we’ll have to tolerate it for future elite specs as well.

Honestly, they could come up with a good solution in one day’s discussion. It’s not that difficult to lay out a good concept and they are supposed to be experienced at such matters too. The only part that will justifiably take any time is 1) the actual coding/testing of the solution and 2) determining what groups they want to please in what way.

2 is the major hangup because it colors all possible solutions and it’s probably why they haven’t already announced a change. They are no doubt trying to figure out if this is going to blow over, partially or entirely, and whether making a quick change will alienate people who have already spent hours in the existing system.

Personally, I think that if left unattended, it would blow over a little bit in the first few weeks, but it would come back stronger than ever as time goes on and the reality of speccing out alts starts hitting people full force. More and more, it would gather alt rage, just like the old trait system did.

Eomunae.2814:

Given the vast amount of feedback which seems to me a bit too one-sided, I decided to pitch in my opinion.

I absolutely think the current cost is justified. Core Tyria already gives half of what you need and everybody could have done them in the months prior to the expansion. Even in the case you didn’t or rerolled a Revenant, speedrunning them solo takes about 4-6h, possibly more time efficient than the new hero challenges. At that point you have a lot of leeway to skip some of the more difficult hero challenges in Maguuma Jungle.

Another critical point to take into consideration is when the next batch of Elite Specializations are released. At that point there will be plenty new Hero challenges making it even more easy to cherrypick the hero points required for the specific Elite Spec you want.

If I had to change anything, I’d make atleast 50% of the total Hero Challenges in Maguuma easily soloable, so that the entire spec can be earned solo for those that want.

I am having a blast and love that it will take a week or so before I have my elite spec finished. Of course, it helps that I actually do enjoy the ‘grind’ in itself rather than seeing it as a requirement to have fun.

Lolwut. Everybody could have done them in the months prior… for one, you say that as if it’s something people should have done. As if preparing for an expansion so you can enjoy it properly is part of the expansion. Second, nobody in their right mind, even hardcore players, has the time to go do map completion on 6-9 characters for an expansion. And third, the fact that you are encouraging speedruns of core tyria hero points so you can get HoT elite spec… I don’t know how you don’t see what’s so messed up about that. That it’s arguably better to go do non-HoT content, so that you can enjoy HoT content.

Skolops.2604:

Frankly, I can’t rationally look at the complaints about elite specializations as anything other than entitled whining, and I am not quick to use the term. I can absolutely cut slack to those who haven’t recognized the impact of masteries being account wide. However, the truth is that the kinds of changes people are asking for about elite specialization unlocking come from a place of wanting everything for free, up front.

Sigh… no, they are not. Yes, they are some people who would have preferred to have elite specs free, from the start, but even then, it’s a case of people wanting to be able to play the new content with their elite specs, rather than having most of it done before their elite specs are unlocked. This hyperbole about wanting everything for free is so tiresome and insulting.

leftyboy.9358:

Just watched the gw2 manifesto and you’re right. They have strayed from that path. Of particular interest to this topic is 1:20-1:40 where he very clearly and passionately describes their grind philosophy.

I think it’s important to note that there’s a very precise moment in the xpac where they diverge from that manifesto. (And keep in mind, I say the following as someone who is enjoying masteries and whose main complaint is the elite spec setup, so some of it will be theory more than anything.)

Here’s the situation: They added horizontal progression in two big respects – masteries and elite specializations. This is horizontal progression by definition, as it doesn’t give you gear upgrades and it doesn’t really make you any more powerful; it just gives you some fun abilities that you didn’t have before and a new way to play your class.

Now here’s where they diverge: The HoT zones have numerous areas that are only accessible (or all but impossible to access) without certain masteries. Because navigating the HoT maps is a distinctive part of the HoT experience, it starts to look almost like vertical progression. It’s a very very fine distinction. Vertical progression is usually referred to as things like gear upgrades and the HoT zones don’t offer that.

But… HoT content is largely: 1) Masteries, 2) Elite Specs, 3) Story, and 4) New maps. Both parts of maps and parts of points for elite specs are locked behind masteries. This means one part of progression is locked behind another part of progression (masteries and elite specs). But further than that, there is what I will term “pleasure progression” that is gated behind horizontal progression. Pleasure progression I’m using to refer to content such as map completion and map exploration, that usually has no gating and gives no (or minimal) rewards. The gain is the pleasure of doing it.

And pleasure progression being gated by horizontal progression is problematic because it gives the sense that you need to do your chores before you can play video games, almost like the game is a job.

How a different system would have avoided breaking the manifesto: I doubt any major changes to the mastery system are going to happen now, but for pure academic pleasure… had masteries all been fluff (e.g. abilities that enhance the experience of their environment, but are not required or even recommended for it) then the application of terms like “grind” would be completely unjustified. Instead, the term is slightly justified because there are numerous masteries are absolutely vital for certain map content and even when they are not vital, they are often the sort of thing that you’d expect to be there to begin with.

Once again, I’m not criticizing what the masteries are myself. I’m happy so far with what they are and what they provide. But from a theoretical standpoint, many of them would rank as baseline navigational abilities for such complex zone design. In the context of the classic zones, they would truly feel like a bonus, sent down from the gods above, but many of the lower ones do indeed feel like the sort of thing that you should have from the start, given how the maps are designed.

And to be fair, the base ones have a relatively low XP cost. But I can see how someone who only has 1-2 hours to play a day might need a few days, or even a week at a slow pace, just to get an introductory mastery. Which could feel like a long time to spend to get baseline navigation in a complex zone.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Lots of passionate feedback and discussion in here on either side, and a friendly reminder that constructive feedback helps us make better games (please do keep it constructive!) We don’t always get every detail perfect the first time, but I like to think one of our strengths is we’re always open to and listening to feedback from our community and making good decisions based on that feedback.

Ultimately, we’re thrilled with the parts of HoT everyone is enjoying. Your passion is awesome, and it’s part of why we all love creating this game. In particular, in game we’ve seen a really positive reaction to the game from folks who are busy playing, which has been really cool to see.

While we never like to rush and make snap decisions, in particular with a game that’s basically been out less than three days; I think there are some fair points in here for us to discuss. Much like other feedback about HoT, we’ll be discussing this as well!

Thanks again!

Completely reasonable to be cautious with such an enormous project.

Something to keep in mind: I’m pretty confident that if there was a way to put the posts in this thread in an algorithm and look for commonalities, you would find that most of the people in here are on roughly the same page.

Thanks for taking the time to say something. Get lots of rest, cause you probably need it. Eat some Adrenal Mushrooms to refresh your mind. Something like that.

Sytherek.7689:

Yes, but they want the esport, MtnDew crowd. I think that’s ANet’s intended audience. A lot of companies are going that way.

Those of us looking for a fun relaxing diversion are SOL.

1) I don’t think they actually do. They are just trying to give us horizontal progression like we asked for and went a little crazy with it in one or two respects.

2) It wouldn’t make any sense if they did. See: Wildstar (tried to appeal to hardcore crowd and went F2P within months).

I don’t know where you are getting the idea that “a lot of companies are going this way.” MMOs that try to be hardcore consistently fall on their face and only succeed with niche hardcore markets, while supporting the bulk of the game through a casual crowd. I guess non-traditional MMOs like Eve Online might the exception, but I don’t think that’s really a traditional RPG.

You do realize, without any of the HP from map completion in regular Tyria zones, you need every single HP in HoT? I was originally thinking there were a few extra, but nope. 4 maps, 3 with 11 points and 1 with 7 points, for a total of 40/400.

So the current system actually encourages people to ignore HoT content and go do regular map completion if they want elite spec any time soon. Cause a sizable chunk of HP are gated behind masteries.

Have fun getting them on characters that don’t have map completion, lollllllllll.

Coulter.2315:

Labjax.2465:

Thanks for the advice. If you exit the instance, do you have to do the two pre parts again, with the companion blighted? (the pre before you reach the big guy)

Yer you’ll need to kill them again, but they aren’t too tough with Zerker (and you’ll know what they’ll do this time so can build appropriately).

Ok, thanks.

TexY.2350:

Man I tried this one several times, it just got harder and harder for each attempt.
Seems like it bugs and uses later phases moves from the start >.<

Yeah, it definitely bugs on repeat attempts. I just tried like 5 times with a group and we got screwed over on air phase 2 or 3 times because he bugged.

I dunno man. It seems like most of the not-solo complaints pertain to the hero points debacle, but if it’s other stuff, then I dunno.

I’m a pretty good at video games and pretty good at GW2. I die a lot in open world in the new zones, but mostly when I try to do events solo or I rambo every mob in the game at a group event because it’s fun on the rare occasions that it actually goes in my favor. If it’s just taking down a mob or three, it’s not that big of a deal. A lot of these new mobs, it’s a matter of bursting them down before they burst you down. That’s why it gets so hard for me when the number of mobs goes up. They are so bursty and I don’t have enough burst of my own to spare. SW and Dry Top was the same way though. Lot of burst.

I imagine tanky approaches work well too. You just outlive their burst and then whittle them down.

Ugh. I don’t know then.

I didn’t choose Caithe, so I didn’t get that particular fight. All I can think is, did it give you the option to use the reality rift thingy?

Thanks for the advice. If you exit the instance, do you have to do the two pre parts again, with the companion blighted? (the pre before you reach the big guy)

Any advice for the fight against the big dude? I was doing ok first try. Died on glide phase cause I panicked and didn’t figure out what to do. Second try, I got past that phase and then got worked on the phase where he does the spinning pull you attack. I was popping every cooldown and pulling every survival trick I could think of, but the damage was near nonstop, mixed with fighting the next blighted. I could barely stay alive, much less get the blighted down.

For what it’s worth, I’m warrior, in zerker gear, with a decent survival build (I’ve got pretty good HP regen, a stability cooldown, a condition negation cooldown, a damage negation cooldown, and a heal on a 20 second cooldown that also negates conditions for 6 seconds.

Is there some trick to this I’m missing? Getting a little annoyed at the prospect of starting over again (it’s a pretty exhausting fight cause I have to keep moving near constantly). Resisting the urge to call the fight overtuned (I’m probably just missing something). I’ve been playing for hours and it’s possible my reflexes are suffering because of it.

Actually, I may have found a workaround for the bugged markings (that or my persistent resetting of the quest got me through and I got lucky).

The possible workaround is this… approach the marking slowly when you get within range, so that it updates each part incrementally, rather than updating chunks at a time. For the last one (the one by the wp leading into the next zone) I recommend wping and then slowly approach the marking. If you don’t have the wp unlocked already, you probably will eventually from it bugging out on you.

The swap mission stuff can get you past the poison requirement bug, but then you get bugged on the markings, so yeah. Don’t get your hopes up too much with the “workaround” guys. It’s majorly bugged.

Everybody on my map who’s trying to do it is bugging in the marking stage over and over, at random different marks.

The tendril part I almost died on so many times lol. I kept missing a jump and falling to the ground. The only complaint I have about that mission is that you’re supposed to follow Ruka, but it’s not always clear where he/she/it went, so you have to kind of make a guess while bossbugger comes up and swipes at you.

It’s a timed platformer, more or less, only in 3d. The upside is, if you die, you start over at your last checkpoint.

I’m fed up of people moaning about others moaning. It’s like they’ve never been on an internet forum before.

Osu.6307:

Test.8734:

Go to the metacritic site and give HoT a low score

No reason to get nasty. Hero points are really the only thing that I think is screwed up. I’m going stick with lobbying for now. Let’s hope anet fixes this almost as fast as they fixed perma-quickness rangers.

Agreed. It’s not like giving them a low rating is going to get them to fix it faster, anyway. They are a company, not a single person who can be intimidated. There are procedures they have to go through and investors they have to answer to.

Unfortunately, procedure is probably the biggest thing in the way right now. That and the fact that it’s the weekend, though knowing how game companies work, a lot of them are probably working overtime right now.

Nah, I think the “real logic,” especially as it pertains to hero points, is they wanted a way to make them a useful feature, rather than useless, and they settled on tying them into the new specs. Problem is, it made a lot of people angry and it still leaves excess hero points useless once you have the spec unlocked.

Nike.2631:

Carbon Footprint.3421:

Only 2 ‘sets’ as there are only 2 new heavy chest pieces in the wardrobe.

See, that’s just weird thinking to me. That would be 2 “heavy sets”. Along with 2 “light sets” and 2 “medium sets”. Why people consider SIX completely separate looks to be “two sets” is strange.

Technically, yes, but some people main one class, so they are only ever going to benefit from the 2.

Basically, it’s like this… making a viable solution that makes people happy is easy and the possible solutions are numerous. The problem is, Anet stabbed themselves in the foot when they revamped the skills system. If you look at the game where it is now and take the elite specs out of the picture, hero points are all but a pointless feature. They are useful while leveling, maybe, and that’s it.

Back when skill points meant something for mystic forge recipes, the excess of them meant something, even after you’d fully unlocked a spec. Since they changed skill points to hero points and made them into a purely class-based feature, they serve zero purpose outside the context of 1-80 leveling and (now) elite specs.

The point is, Anet could fix the problem in 10 different ways and make people happy. But no matter what they do, they are probably going to be left with an embarrassing number of worthless hero points in their game. They need to address that worthlessness in the process of fixing this, or they will be trading one embarrassment for another.

My thought is, integrate the elite specs into masteries and do something like this with hero points: Make the challenges repeatable on a daily cycle and turn them into a kind of currency (but only usable as a currency once all of your base specs are fully unlocked – basically, so you can spend excess). But rather than making them a generic mystic forge thing like before, they can be spent to buy from a narrow purchase list on a special vendor; items such as boosters, for example. Items in that sweet spot of consumable and desirable that aren’t too good, but also aren’t so bad that no one wants them.

This kills several problems. Not only are the elites more accessible and alt-friendly, but hero challenges continue to serve a purpose and will never run out of people to do them with you because they are repeatable and consistently give you something worth having (thereby also killing the non-soloable issue in the process).

If I may ask, what class are you playing and what kind of build/gear? The hero points are not soloable and some of the mobs are nasty, but outside of HP, you can get by most stuff solo.

The events are tuned for groups, for the most part, but that’s how high level events have always been.

I would be happy to see if I can point you in a better direction on build/tactics.

I’d love to give it a 9, but there are some things bringing it down to more like a 6:

- Daunting task of tracking down enough hero points to unlock elite

- Related to the above, map completion is a lot less fun because of hero points. Instead of wandering around and doing it all with the mindset of a solo explorer, I wander around with the mindset of a solo explorer until I hit a battle-based hero point or a mastery-locked hero point, at which point I have to approach it with the mindset of a fateful gambler (it’s luck as to whether anyone is nearby or interested in helping) and a skipping record, respectively (goodbye momentum, go unlock another mastery or three and then you can spend another hour tracking down the location of this hero point in its far away, hidden area).

For example, a couple hours ago, I was traversing Verdant Brink with the mindset of an explorer. It took me some time to find it, but I hunted down a hero point with some clever gliding and found my way into a nook in the canyon wall, where some froggie dude was standing by it. Froggy Dude was all like, “You are not worthy!” And the hero point was blocked by a mastery that wants me to use Noctiplwejiojfwof Hole Traveling (I don’t remember the actual name) to get to the hero point (which is level two, at least, of Nocwoifjwoiafj mastery). Only I didn’t need the burrow/hole to get to it. I got there my own way with some clever gliding.

But doing things my own way is a no-no there. Not allowed.

One would think that a system that blocks you off would do it thoroughly, making it so you can’t even get in the vicinity of your goal with the required skill, but I guess not. What I experienced earlier is like being taunted.

It gives me no pleasure to say that these kind of moments seriously detract from one of the things that makes GW2 fun for me (the experience of exploring a map).

webtoehobbit.4201:

But what I am seeing is a multitude of people whining and complaining because they, get this….. have to play the game……

Sigh… why does every “in defense of Anet” post in the last 48 hours make this same ridiculous argument? If you look at the complaints, most of them are about elite specs, most people are happy with where masteries are, and most people who are complaining about the elite specs are enjoying the rest of the xpac.

The common denominator here is the system for elite specs and people are happy to invest hours and hours into the game. What they are not happy with is the idea of burning themselves out trying to unlock the elite specs and having no fresh content left to use them in. What they are not happy with is the idea of having to go through most hero challenges on 6-9 different characters, for challenges that require a party.

The complaints are pretty simple and if you look at the big thread on elite specs, people seem to be on the same page about it, for the most part. Which doesn’t happen all that often.

Yes, there is a handful of people who are complaining about anything and everything pertaining to the xpac, but they are few and far between. The only one fueled by a 50+ page thread on the subject, with 10x more detail and collected thought than most complaints ever get, is the subject of elite specs.

What you don’t understand is what the primary complaint is.

inch.3769:

Yes but some people want progression, and its not progression if you get your heroic spec immediately.

It’s not even a heroic spec though, really… I mean, it’s a class variation hamfisted into an alternate weapon, dressed up to look like more than it is.

I’m sure the elite specs are cool and all, but when you break it down, they are basically a way of playing your class a bit differently that isn’t necessarily any better than the original ways. If elite specs were truly elite, I could see your reasoning, but as far as I can tell, they are every bit as average as the existing ones. They are just new and different and not finely tuned yet.

Hate to break the illusion, but the illusion is the only reason I can see for gating them so hard.

Goroth.6153:

I am reading the forum at work cause i cant play there and I must say I am disappointed. This is to all whiners, crybaby, spoiled kids etc…just fak off. Play the game or dont. So much negativity here in forum becouse u dont have everything now? Seriously? This is not even contructive critisizm what I read. Just crying. Go play wow or cod or whenever they can jump when you say so. And rest of you see you in game.

Never go to internet forums for positivity. Especially game forums. You will be disappointed every time. The ratio of positive to negative is always distinctly in favor of the negative, without fail, for the simple reason that discontent persists while happiness runs out of things to say.

Knighthonor.4061:

So anybody have any solutions to this problem?

Solution: Elite Spec mastery.

Level 1: Provides access to a special merchant. Completing Level 1 completes a related achievement, which gives a token you can exchange at the merchant for 400 Hero Points. (This way you can get the elite spec on character of your choice, too, regardless of who you did the mastery unlock on.)
XP Cost: The cost of a normal, base mastery.

Level 2: Completes related achievement, which gives token… you get the idea.
Cost: 1.5 cost of first one.

Level 3: Same as 2.
Cost: 3x cost of first one.

Level 4: Same as 2.
Cost: Same as 3.

Level 5: Same as 2.
Cost: Same as 3.

All the way up to 9, for 9 elite specs.

Basically, set up so that first elite spec is really easy to get. Then if you want to unlock more, it goes up a bit in XP cost. Doing it the challenges way would remain intact, but now you have an alternate way that you can do while playing maguuma. Something more ignorable.

That would be my proposal. Simple and straightforward.

Another way would be a repeatable mastery, but I dunno if their software would allow that.

Depends on what you’re trying to achieve.

I’m having fun so far, but I am a bit worried that I’m going to get high masteries in everything maguuma related, only to be hit with the realization that it’s all meaningless outside of maguuma. I mean, I knew that going in, but still.

Actually, I think most people are ok with the masteries. There is a trickle of complaints about them, but nothing at all compared to what’s going on with elites.