Guild Wars 2

One of the toasties made this suggestion regarding WvWvW

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/An-idea-for-sentrying-binoculars-telescopes/first#post2139472

What are you guys thoughts on this? I personally think its fantastic and adds a new dynamic to the game if it were ever implemented. Do post in that thread with your thoughts, we should try to keep good suggestions bumped up as much as possible.

The sniper rifle might be a bit overkill (harder to implement) but for pure scouting purposes I think bino/telescopes would be the best addition ever.

Do you think they should only be in towers? or Keeps as well?

This is a fantastic idea. Its something that would really make a big strategic difference in defensive gameplay.

I miss my siege and upgrades

Mister Mustard.7203:

Rawr.5930:

Mayoken.9851:

Does TC have EU guilds or just massive pop that goes in from differen guilds as militia?

You’re full too mate.

Pop differences arent the driving force in the disparity.

Right. Remember the status quo:

DB hacks can only PvDoor during SEA time.

TC / FA clear the map in EU time because of amazing skills.

Your SEA should talk to WM about meta tactics, even though your SEA might have more numbers they still have a lot to learn about map hopping or limiting map hopping (in your case) as well as locking down DBBL. Its much easier to outmobilize your zergs than it was WM.

Its why Kaineng used to stay high 200-low 400s for many hours whereas your SEA hits low 300-high 400 but only for an hour max.

I would second the notion of going to FA or JQ/BG to make the top 3 servers more competitive or tier 2 more competitive.

At the end of the day you need to choose stability as server characteristics matter more with the new tier shakeups than the actual tiers itself. Everyone measures stability in their own ways, I measure it by looking at guild retention and how servers do when they are coming 3rd place in their tier regularly.

By those two characteristics I believe SoR is the most stable server followed closely byTC because we have very high guild retention and both have fought hard from last place in T2 and in SoR’s case T1 for weeks. However, SoR has an insanely stacked NA so its not recommended going here and TC has a solid NA as well and full for most of the day.

With these two servers out of contention I would suggest JQ and then FA both have higher guild retention than DB/Kaineng & BG and have been stable. FA is doing now what TC did months ago (being last in T2) and still bringing the fight for the most part and reading the T1 threads it seems JQ’s population hasnt diminished much even though they aren’t winning anymore.

DB owes a lot to the loyalty of its SEA crew but you need to remind yourself that their server did suffer from an NA implosion before (a couple of times) the most major one being when a lot of their guilds went to SoS; I personally look at servers overall history and not their most recent history. Recently for the most part DB has been stable but without influential personalities controlling NA from launch (Like SoR and TC have) there is no continuity and loyalty therefore the likelihood of another NA implosion is more probable on DB.

So yeah go to JQ or FA with BG being a close 3rd.

Vash.9183:

Aurust.8961:

Bonedoctor.2796:

We will get the last laugh in the end this coming week , when your happy little family is broken up and paired against new servers. Without your alliance you will fall and fall in the rankings ,all you have done is make us that much better . We have had to adjust to this tag team and find ways to overcome it ! Will be funny to watch Db treat you like a tier 10 server when your on your own ….Gl to you all !

I think DB may have slightly bigger problems in the near future…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-DpRcxK_N8

SoR forum trolls? Thanks for the warning

You do not want to go up against SoR’s NA. Your JQ transfers can inform you better why that might be hazardous to your health.

Bonedoctor.2796:

We will get the last laugh in the end this coming week , when your happy little family is broken up and paired against new servers. Without your alliance you will fall and fall in the rankings ,all you have done is make us that much better . We have had to adjust to this tag team and find ways to overcome it ! Will be funny to watch Db treat you like a tier 10 server when your on your own ….Gl to you all !

TC and FA = Happy Family? What? Mind Blown

Bayern just won the champions league

Slomoshun.6317:

I guess, “coalition” was a bad word to use. I don’t mean you guys are literally sitting in TS3 together working together, I mean you could be, but I highly doubt it.

What I mean is all week FA and TC have been pushing DBL and EB leaving us to do nothing but defend, poorly. TC barely enters FABL and FA barely enters TCBL. And if they do, the most either take is a couple camps and maybe a tower.

While DBL is getting hit from FA on the east and TC on the west and EB is getting the same treatment.

Add all that to the fact that some of our key guilds/commanders not rolling out in full numbers, which is very evident and the fact that the forum warriors on here from DB painted a pretty large bulls-eye on DB’s back.

Oh, and lets not forget that for some reason DB pugs can’t be bothered to get into the community TS3 and get some kitten coordination running. I mean if TC and FA have the time to get in our TS3 and listen to where we’re going I can’t see why our own server can’kittens

called being stuck in 2nd place for a long period of time. 3rd place focuses you more often than 1st, first place focuses you most of the time.

I thought people like IRSyko and Malose held the FA community together to a large extent (At least for the NA timezone). In terms of numbers leaving it might not be a drastic impact but in terms of influential people / commanders It might be a very big loss for FA.

I used a supply trap on the yak

Whats going to happen when those rumored chinese servers are launched?

Glicko needs to go. Kaineng deserved a shot at t1 and should have gotten it. DB deserves a shot as do TC and FA. The fact is with Glicko it is perfectly possible that DB, FA, and TC are all now stronger than BG, JQ, and SOR, but we will never get to find out.

Nope. Not even close

I will be back next reset haven’t been playing since the AC patch hit. Already have some rough ideas about meta and coverage wars in this new matchup. I am hoping they bring the siege back in line by next week or the week after.

Rawnoodles.1398:

Lanimal.6541:

DB has superior SEA thats a given but I think some of their NA guilds are adjusting their schedules to capitalize running with their SEA guilds. I saw 20ish groups of both RE and BP. o_O

We spent allot of time with our SEA coverage back in JQ so we know how to coordinate shifts

ermahgawd T1 strategies. I knew it. xD

DB has superior SEA thats a given but I think some of their NA guilds are adjusting their schedules to capitalize running with their SEA guilds. I saw 20ish groups of both RE and BP. o_O

Looking forward to tackling new guilds in all the timezones. Welcome DB to T2.

Tarnished Coast and Tier 1 =

Niim.9260:

Aytrix.4059:

timidobserver.7925:

Why GVG when they can just randomly find you on the map and then wipe you.

Because its a good way to get the forum warriors to dissapear once they realize they might actually have to back their trash talk up. I would think TC would embrace this idea since they are don’t want any trolling in their match up threads. Or maybe that only applies to other servers and not their own……?

This is not why most people GvG. Typically its just about having a good time fighting each other, trying out different setups and seeing what works and doesn’t work, basically learning and becoming better. People that like GvG enjoy that kind of meta gaming, but like dueling it is not everyone’s cup of tea.

Personally not a huge fan of dueling nature of GvG, I prefer impromptu GvG on the battlefield and have had some good fights with a number of guilds on both KN and TC.

This. I think of GvG as a controlled experiment of sorts. Testing of new tactics, builds, composition and chemistry as close to the real thing as possible. A small % of all of this could then be incorporated into the guilds normal playstyle.

I don’t think it is the be all and end all of determining a guilds open field skill as I approach it a lot like MOBA games; certain hero compositions counter other hero compositions and certain playstyles counter other playstyles, there is no one composition to rule them all. It does show a lot about a guilds open field skill and commanders leadership abilities on an open/even terrain (which is usually not the case in WvWvW) i.e. elevation, chokes, LoS all play a factor in true WvWvW open-field combat.

This past two weeks I have been seeing this HL Guardian in every keep, sentrying like a hawk. I believe hes the reason for my misery for he builds lots of siege and keeps them ticked for unforeseen hours. The week before he was the one who kept Bay on FABL locked down for a whole day with his siege. I will seek you out HL Guardian and have my revenge!

This is the thing though, nightcapping, PVD, 2v1, recruiting, transfers, bandwagon, ppt are part of WvWvW whether we like it or not. The framework of WvWvW has created these tendencies. Playing the game like it is SUPPOSED to be played within the framework of WvWvW; yeah TC is better and TC is winning.

FA might be winning in whichever fictional framework of WvWvW they dream up of but as WvWvW exists right now with all its negatives, TC is better at it.

Furiousbeard.7602:

I’m betting TC could take second spot in tier 1.

I’m curious to see if tier 1 is that much further ahead of tier 2. TC would be a measuring stick of sorts.

Nah. We aint FA who thinks they can go from T3 to T2 and beat BG. We will be third in T2 unless more transfer shakeups happen out of T1 servers.

Niim.9260:

I wish folks would just accept the fact that servers can have different cultures and thus different views and priorities and different views of success and winning.

Because of a largely opposing views of the game, it is entirely possible for both FA and TC to feel like they are winning at the same time and this thread is the fallout from them trying to prove their winning is more meaningful then the others and gain validation of their version of victory.

The only thing that actually matters to either side is, do you have fun playing the game the way you do? If so, who cares that someone else’s view of success is different then your own?

Fair points but I think the issue is that if FA truly does not care about winning and ppt etc they really should not constantly Q.Q about recruitment / transfers / coverage / 2v1 / PR teams / server zergballs etc.

If all FA wants is open-field fighting; fine talk about it. Talk all you want about GvG and loot bags and continue to post selectively edited footage which I enjoy watching. However, I personally don’t believe that is the case. I believe FA does care about winning and PPT etc but just falls back to this crutch of “oh who cares about the framework of WvWvW” every time they start losing. That I think is where the clash of server cultures happens in my opinion.

Maniac.5163:

I’m starting to see a pattern here.. I think the confusion is occurring when we get to the definition of coverage. Artificially or not, coverage is coverage. More boots on the field in your weak times. Whether they are players living in that timezone or people playing.. frankly unhealthy hours to fill the ranks artificially – it still creates coverage.

That’s why ultimately, I have to disagree to statements regarding FA’s “superior coverage” prior to the recent CD transfers. It’s simply incorrect and I think the problem lies with TC thinking it’s a bad “tactical” decision that FA doesn’t play an incredible amount of hours, skipping work/studying and sacrificing a ridiculous amount of time to fill coverage gaps.

People putting in extra hours for the server is their own prerogative doesn’t automatically mean that they harming their RL to do it. This is another jumping to conclusion/judging aspect that I find annoying about FA. People in TC just feel like being more dedicated to the server on certain days and when they take a break other people step in and play ‘unhealthy’ hours to keep the train rolling.

I agree with you on the fact that there is a difference between actual coverage and artificial coverage my argument was always based on actual coverage. FA has competent oceanic guilds post IoJ merger whereas TC lacked in both Oceanic and SEA department compared to both FA and Kaineng. Our European timezone also didn’t have guild presence (outside of EB) so we requested some of our commanders to change up and try to command during European to make the most out of that timezone (if our SEA has been successful in forcing a 2v1 onto FA earlier) which they did.

To compete with FA and KA we had to play longer shifts and create artificial coverage which could in the long run have led to burnout, luckily thanks to AWE/ESF/NAGA and Estaily we don’t have to worry about that anymore.

Also you need to understand that you don’t need entire guilds playing unhealthy hours to play a smart overall meta you need a skeleton crew of smart individuals who are willing to do the boring tasks like sentrying/defense but also be very adept at reading enemy movements and communicating across the four maps. These individuals then transfer over these skill-sets to other willing TC-ers and then we create an army of experienced, smart meta players who understand four map macro, meta, ppt and achieving more with less.

The result of that was two weeks ago.

kylia.4813:

Lanimal.6541:

AVTR is by far the commanding influence during this timeslot. Their meta-game is smart, they can maximize ppt by splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, they have one major zergball running on one map and a decent zerg running in another. They also hop maps to reinforce each other really well.

Though I love the shoutout, AVTR has been and is a 50man guild. With at most in our prime days with 20 online at most.
20 people doesn’t equal a zerg ball + decent zerg on another…

Yeah I always have respected you guys as the one guild on FA who truly understands meta and PPT. I think this just shows that you guys were that much better at hopping maps and defending FABL and attacking TCBL during your timezone that made it look like two groups. Also whenever we see an FA group during oceanic consisting of multiple tags and if there are like 4-5 AVTR in that group we become paranoid, trying to scout out golems in the water etc.

So could I say that you guys have on 20ish man on one borderland and you send 4-5 mesmers to assist other oceanic guilds do golem rushing? Is that a more accurate assessment? Because to us it feels like AVTR is golem rushing two maps.

Maniac.5163:

Food for thought about timezone overlap?

Exactly. Our NA-Pacific would purposely play longer shifts on certain days (Tuesdays) to overlap into your oceanic not allowing you guys to setup as efficiently to deal with WM. Similarly, you guys could have done more to redirect WM to TCBL during Oceanic and keep them there. Which means for 8 hours we are suffering PPT wise allowing FA to build a gap over us and leaving our European timeslot with a lot of ground to make up which we are unable to without at least some way-pointed keeps.

The fact that there is such a large gap between TC’s two dominant timezones (NA Pacific and European) meant that for if FA played a smart meta back then we would have no chance in hell to come anything other than third during those weeks.

Maniac.5163:

This is fascinating. My favourite bit is where it seems to the enemy like AVTR has more than 10 at any given time on the field.

“As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.”

Isn’t this what I was talking about? More coverage = more players available over the 24 hour stretch.. am I missing something here?

Your fallacy lies in the fact that you are assuming coverage is calculated in a 1v1 between FA and TC thats not the case, Kaineng is/was very much in the picture as well and our European can be completely a non-factor if WM is allowed to focus TC down during their SEA and late into our European thus negating our second semi-dominant timezone completely. What I am saying is that FA had all the coverage they needed to win T2 as well if they followed an overall meta strategy like we did.

Commanders like Jadon, Odinzu, Nightlight, Rhyme and many others worked with me in implementing this strategy which allowed us to win T2 that one week with inferior coverage.

What should TC do during SEA?

This is where the really complex macro-meta strategy comes into play. This is the timezone which will make or break us. This is the timezone where we are set to lose out the most amount of points and ppt if played incorrectly or we are in the spot to capitalize and manipulate WM’s tendencies.

1. Defend Hills Keep

If you defend Hills Keep while making sure that our Garrison or Northern towers don’t get ninja-ed (by Golems or Superior Rams) then we can direct them towards FABL. The thing about WM is they are very very stubborn, they will repeatedly bash their heads against an upgraded keep until they deplete our supply and they will continue to do it until they capture it eventually. We can’t expect to keep it unless we wipe them once or twice. Just killing their siege does not make them hop maps. You have to wipe them and that’s tough to do with the numbers we have. They will eventually take it but it will eat a lot into their time.

1. Lose the north

WHAT!? Not defend the north!? Hand it them on a platter !?! Exactly, correct. This is a difficult decision but once WM has the south (Bay to Hills) we are terribly behind in PPT to both Kaineng and FA. We can sit there and defend our little hearts out and we could possibly hold Garrison and maybe ONE of the northern towers (NE) but we would be ticking at 70-125 PPT for hours on end while WM and their stubbornness to turn the map green would continue until they turn it green. We need to give up the north. We need to use the Garrison supply to build golems up and port them to Citadel and then just hand it to them on a platter. Do a ‘pretend defence’ of garrison so that its not too obvious but really just die and let them take it. To speed it up the commander needs to lead the group of TCBL for the slaughter. Just try to attack the WM zerg in the face and get wiped. They will get confident and just start ramming/goleming Garrison instead of taking hours trebbing fortified walls.

1. Golem Retake of TCBL

Don’t focus on upgrading, don’t focus on sieging the northern towers or garrison. At this point of time its all about flipping objectives for maximizing ppt. Our paper towers and keeps won’t last against WM’s zerg no matter how much siege we have. So we just need to move swiftly and quickly to retake TCBL. Golem take Garrison, then split up and go for the two keeps (Hills and Bay). Make sure to grab FA’s spawn side tower (LAKE) and then come back and grab the two northern towers. Instead of defending and ticking at 70-125 PPT for hours we are now ticking in the 175-225 range.

1. Keeping WM hopping between FABL and KABL

Now we need to make sure they don’t bring their megazerg back to TCBL. We can’t do that by just sitting in TCBL, upgrading and praying to the golem god. If we do that they will come back and this time they will turn it green even quicker (cause all our things are wooden). We have to go after them or rather behind them. We let them turn FABL’s keeps wooden (until then just cap camps and nodes in KABL and upgrade TCBL). Once WM moves north and gets northern tower and/or has orange swords in Garrison. You want to send minimum 5 to maximum 10 people to ninja backcap our 1/3rd in FABL i.e. Bay Keep + SW Camp + Briar Tower.

As soon as you do that you need to go to KABL and golem cap our 1/3rd in KABL. You can also push your luck here. You can push further south and cap BRIAR and further north and cap NE tower along with Hills+Lake+SE+NE camps. If Bay is unupgraded (no waypoint) you can also golem take that. This way WM due to their obsession of turning maps green will stay in FABL longer because they have to turn the red bay green and this might give FA some breathing room to hold onto or retake their garrison which will make WM go back to take FA’s garrison etc.

What should TC do during Oceanic?

Oceanic is fairly straightforward. We need to defend. FA doesn’t have the numbers or the sheer brute strength to run rampant through our holdings. They won’t take a way-pointed Garrison or Overlook unless we make mistakes in defense. If they come up against stern defense on our borderland they will hop maps to KABL and go for easy points there. They want to maximize their PPT, they are not stubborn or tunnelvisioned like their NA counterparts. They will go for the easy points.

1. Hills Keep upgraded and Sieged

As our NA is dying down, if we had a good NA like we typically do we need to prioritize upgrading and sieging up Hills Keep on TCBL before we all go to bed. This keep needs to be upgraded for us to minimize / maximize PPT during Oceanic. Hills Keep is the toughest keep to break in the borderlands if defended properly. Also understand that during this period we don’t have enough people to spare so wasting tonnes of siege on the outer gates and walls of the keeps is a waste, we wont have enough people to man them to stop them in their tracks. The siege maximization needs to be done in the inner keep (so that its easier to keep ticked).

If we break them here we will send them to KABL. If we don’t break them here we can slow them down long enough for them to not be able to genuinely siege and take our Garrison / northern two towers. Its fine if we lose bay. Don’t commit forces to Bay (send 3-4 people to man mortars max to delay them). If Bay flips they have to worry about Kaineng being opportunistic and backcapping a wooden bay making them further leave their offence on the north part of the map.

1. Hold The North
   This ones obvious and there have been very few days outside of reset where I have seen Garrison been blue. We can’t let them flip our upgraded garrison and our northern towers. They need to have the minimum amount of siege and smart sentries on them. I am not going to give examples of siege placement on Northern Towers and Garrison. If by now you as a commander don’t know this reach out the many commanders who do. TCBL is typically 1/2 a map, our north for 16/24 hours anyway. Its what we have become accustomed to for so many weeks in Tier 2 and people should know how to hold it against all kinds of assaults that FA can throw at us (Kaineng and BG are different beasts altogether).

1. Backcap KABL

What do I mean by back-capping? Back-capping means instead of banging your head against an upgraded tower or keep you let the dominant server (in this case FA) to take all of the south on the third servers map (in this case Kaineng) and then go ninja wooden keeps and towers. Back-capping needs to be fast, stealthy and based on timing. You get stealth by flipping the weather nodes, make sure you flip the weather nodes before moving for any Keep. Go for Keep before you go for a tower. Use Golems or Superior Rams/Catapults. Utilize the +5 buff to maximum the supply you can carry. Make sure that you see orange swords at a northern tower or Garrison before you make your move, if you make your move too early there is a good chance you will get hit by their zerg while they are resupplying etc. You can typically take our 1/3rd which is Hill Keep + South Camp + SE Camp. You can also try for the NE tower if FA has flipped it. Don’t bother going for Briar or Bay though as FA is most likely going to respond and shut those attempts out.

1. Flip Camps and Two Southern Towers in FABL

This is difficult to do but a skilled 3-5 man party with unorthodox paths can flip all the camps in FABL. Do not attempt to take keeps in FABL during oceanic timeslot, they are the dominant server and they prioritize defense and upgrading, they will make life very difficult for you. In the end it will be a waste of time and resources that can be best used elsewhere. However, its possible with Ninja Catapults to take both Briar and Lake, use superior catapults along with guild catapults to maximize supply. One of the things to do to flip these towers would be to not flip a southern camp, take supply from TCBL or KABL (less defended) and then run supply to the spawn tower to setup the catapults. Make sure to flip the three weather nodes and/or send a thief to contest northern towers / garrison and Bay OR Hills keep. Many white-swords they will likely prioritize those whilst you take the tower.

UNDERSTANDING THE MAIN SERVER & GUILD TENDENCIES in their PRIMARY TIMEZONES

OCEANIC
FA Priorities
1. Keep FABL Blue and attempt to get Hills and Bay upgraded
2. Go on the offense in EB + 1 Borderland (TCBL or KABL) but dont over-commit.
3. Attempt to have a 1/3rd minimum in each map.
FA Guilds
- AVTR
- ZN
- UA
- Pro

AVTR is by far the commanding influence during this timeslot. Their meta-game is smart, they can maximize ppt by splitting up and hitting multiple objectives, they have one major zergball running on one map and a decent zerg running in another. They also hop maps to reinforce each other really well. Pro and ZN members you will find sentrying the FABL, they will respond quickly to camps being contested and even quicker to protecting their yaks. It is easy to manipulate them by tacking an unorthodox path of flipping camps and keeping them red. However, it is difficult to ninja a KEEP or a TOWER during this timeslot in FABL.

SEA
KA Priorities

1. Go on the offense to the point of over-commitment, they don’t leave until they turn the garrison green.
2. Attempt to have the SOUTH on each map (Bay and Hills)
3. Keep hopping between FABL & TCBL and turning them green as well as pushing one section of EB until they can turn it green.
4. They go for easier objectives (wooden vs upgraded).
KA Guilds
- WM
- KOR
- Meow

WM just has insane numbers and they can cover two maps at a time, they hop as a unit (a massive zergball). They have a tendency to not leave sentries in their keeps in KABL and even if they have sentries they do not always respond quickly unless its a waypointed/upgraded keep (which it rarely is other than Garrison). They are very prone to get back-capped on FABL as they have this over-commitment to turn a borderland green. Sometimes they will have meow sentry the south but thats only if FA is not putting up a resistance at Garrison (rarely the case, FA fights for their garrison hard), if FA is putting up a resistance at Garrison then WM would need Meow’s numbers for the fight and supply as well.

UNDERSTANDING THE 24 HOUR CYCLE

Before we even begin, everyone needs to understand how the cycle works in Tier 2 against FA and Kaineng. I will break it down into five sections.

Early NA – Mostly EST Dominance – FA | Max/Min FA PPT – 300/230 | Max/Min TC PPT – 255/175 | Max/Min KA PPT – 230/150 DURATION – SHORT

In this period FA tends to push hard and tick at low 300’s, high 200’s although if we have waypointed keeps in TCBL we can usually stay competitive and also in the mid to high 200’s. Its the most evenly contested timezone in this tier. This period does not last that long as FA tends to go to bed early right when we seem to amounting forces. Most of the time during early NA we are usually defending TCBL trying to get it upgraded and our 1/3 in EB with some ninja attempts in KABL (as FABL will be well guarded).

Late NA – EST & Pacific Dominance – TC | Max/Min TC PPT – 410/275 | Max/Min FA PPT – 175/70 | Max/Min KA PPT – 210/125 DURATION – LONG

This is one of our best timezones. We as a server have a tendency to play much longer hours than FA does and our NA once it builds up steam is simply stronger than FA and KA. You will see us ticking anywhere from low 300’s to low 400’s during this timeframe, often turning FABL red and doing well in KABL as well. Since we tend to play so late we start overlapping into their oceanic so when their oceanic come on they still have to fight our numbers to regain their borderland back before moving into the offensive, buying us time.

Oceanic Dominance – FA | Max/Min FA PPT – 350/275 | Max/Min TC PPT – 155/50 | Max/Min KA PPT – 175/70 DURATION – SHORT

This is by far the sole reason FA stays competitive with us, their oceanic guilds like AVTR are stellar and understand meta-game unlike most of the FA guilds who are very tunnel-visioned and want to just ‘farm’ / open-field combat. FA can push to high 300’s PPT in this timezone but often they would be in the low 300’s or high 200’s. It all depends on how long it took them to take back their borderland.

SEA Dominance – KA | Max/Min KA PPT – 575/350 | Max/Min TC PPT – 275/50 | Max/Min FA PPT – 175/50 DURATION – LONG

Warmachine Time. When the Korean mega-zerg comes rolling, the FA oceanics quickly start logging off. These guys are meant to be feared because of the sheer numbers they bring. They can cover two borderlands easy as they also utilize Meow and KOR as auxiliary guilds. They easily cross the 400 ppt range and can come close to staying in the 500 ppt for a while. This is the timezone that wins Kaineng the tier and similar to our NA, Warmachine doesnt go to bed early. They play for a while and their dominance is lengthy unless someone wakes up and punches them in the mouth. You will notice that in this timezone our PPT Variance is very high and this timezone will be key to explaining my strategy.

European Dominance – TC | Max/Min TC PPT – 375/235 | Max/Min FA PPT – 255/155 | Max/Min KA PPT – 175/90 DURATION – MEDIUM

This is our untapped timezone. We have a stronger euro-presence than both FA and KA and a good euro timezone can really set us up for a very successful NA EST and Pacific. Similarly European’s depend on us not getting completely smashed during SEA. This chain of off-peak coverage going from oceanic>sea>european will allow us to win the tier. I will explain how the macro will work in the following sections.
———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

As you notice both us and FA have two time-zones where we are dominant in and Kaineng has one timezone that they are super dominant in. Both of FA’s dominant timezones are SHORT in duration, sometimes medium (Oceanic), whereas we have one medium and one long duration. This means realistically if we take advantage of our European timezone and minimize our losses during Oceanic and SEA using smart macro-tactics we can win this tier.

Maniac.5163:

Lanimal.6541:

mega-snip

Really just curious here though, why do you think FA had superior coverage prior to the remaining CD guilds moving to TC? I mean, Kaineng had the best Oceanic/SEA coverage by far, balancing out that timezone. Nobody except TC has any EU (early morning NA) coverage.

Very tempted to post my bit from the War Council on coverage and meta since it kind of does not apply anymore with the current situation of the tier. Alright get ready to be enlightened (Wall of text coming).

Andy.9137:

Tallis.5607:

Andy.9137

Losing respect for TC because of the pretentious attitude of it’s forum warriors. Although the backhand comments from FA make us look bad as well.

The (albeit subtle) difference is that these FA-people are trashing TC already for months and TC never really replied in the past.

But there comes a point when too much is too much.

For me, that point came when these FAers kept saying that they were better than TC… after TC won against FA 7 times in a row.

When FA looses 7 matches against TC and some FAers keep saying over and over and over AND OVER that FA is better than TC, you can not expect that TC just stays quiet and doesn’t react to these insults.

Sure, you can say ‘be the better person and let them insult you over and over’ and that is what TC did. For weeks and weeks and weeks.

But at a certain moment, too much is too much, even for nice and gentle RPers like TC.

Your view of wvw is extremely narrow minded. Winning and losing in wvw does not come down to the general skill level of that server. Saying “FA lost to TC 7 times therefore TC is better” is wrong. Truth is we will never truly know who is better because there is no chance at ever having a completely balanced week long match where the presence of players in all maps are exactly the same.

That is the truth.

I wish arenanet would have released the actual active numbers of players in WvWvW previously. Then I could point at how FA had stronger coverage for weeks and was still unable to beat us. Then I can use the statistics and say clearly we are better than you because we beat you guys with inferior coverage.

But the fact is that’s never going to happen or even if it does it not anytime soon. Until then we just have to look at the numbers and the results, sure you can Q.Q about us having superior coverage or numbers but at the end of the day by the rule-set of WvWvW we are beating you and that is the end result. That end-result makes us better at the game that is WvWvW.

There are many aspects of WvWvW, four map coordination, meta, ppt, open-field fighting, defense etc and you guys can claim as much as you want to be better at one aspect of WvWvW which is open-field fighting through having more people that like to have their kitten enlarged by recording footage and selectively editing it. However being better (debatable) at one aspect of WvWvW does not make you better than us as a server at WvWvW. The sooner you guys realize that the better it will be for both servers (open-field fighting is not the be all and end all of WvWvW).

Gturtle.2864:

This is why us veterans of FA harbor so little respect for this incarnation of TC- you’re a server that used to have an admirable outlook- the ever humble TC militias! No large mega guilds fielding mega zergs just regular players banding together to get it done! Now you’ve become this over gorged self gratifying monstrosity. You don’t have anything figured out that FA or Kaineng (or any server above Tier 4) doesn’t know. You’re not out there crushing everything FA or Kaineng attempts due to some grand strategy. You have better coverage- that is not due to a lack of competence on FA or Kaineng’s part. Yet you’re here gloating as if you could provide tutelage to our WvW communities?

Sometime between this past December and now, TC sold it’s soul. Maybe Arena Net made them do it; but it’s done.

Yeah our superior coverage allowed us to repeatedly stay ahead of FA and even win T2 one week. It was clearly not our meta-strategy and ability to force 2v1 onto FA during our SEA timezone with vastly inferior numbers. Of course it wasn’t that.. Its not that we had a better grasp of the mentality of guilds on Kaineng and BG because we have been facing them for that much longer therefore having more experience dealing with them. Of course it cant be that.

The fact of the matter is that with the anomaly of one week FA has come behind TC even post its merger with IoJ guilds. You know when a competitive team/player fights against another competitive team/player in an e-sport and can’t seem to beat him/them. They go back to the drawing board and analyze their mistakes, where they are going wrong instead of just throwing their hands up in the air and saying ’bah its excuse X (coverage ) or excuse Y (serverzergballs)".

Really sit down and think about why you were unable to beat us even with a superior oceanic coverage and obviously superior skill (lawl). Think about how the five timezones work together, analyze the three servers their strengths, their weaknesses, their guild tendencies in their stronger timezone (WM was the most influential guild before TC got its transfers). Understand how you can make opposing servers play to your tunes through smart meta manipulation.

- “We should defend our garrison with our hearts out while sitting at 100PPT after we have lost all of our southern map to WM!!!” 5 Hours later – “Great defense guys we managed to save our way-pointed garrison through SEA timezone” : Result: Behind in points by 5-6k because of sitting in 100 PPT. Don’t worry we used to make the same mistake as well but we adapted. I am obviously not going to tell you how we adapted to WM’s stubbornness but we did; the only clue I am going to give you guys is that it required making extremely calculative decisions on sacrificing key objectives by watching the four map macro strategy (treating WvWvW as one giant map and not four individual ones).

Luthan.5236:

It should be possible to hire real mercenaries. Give each server a “super commander” with rts view(let players above a certain WXP rank elect that super commander) and a mercenary cap / limit.

Then let him hire with gold or items(players could donate gold and/ or cheap crafted or from drops obatined weapons). And let him use them in rts view.

Oh god no. Horrible Idea. Remove as much PVE as possible from WvWvW

Zoel.9154:

Chris.5024:

Who cares, play the game.

This.

Remember, you can’t control a map you aren’t on or a tier you aren’t in.

You cant?

Here is something of a mind****.

If IoJ guilds never transferred to FA and stack T3 to crush CD. CD would not have lost guilds before paid transfer to JQ/BG and TC. Few months down the line CD would not be in the position they were in (lopsided coverage) and not moved to TC now.

So thanks FA for getting the IoJ guilds.

Andy.9137:

Lanimal.6541:

You mean to tell me all 16 guilds that moved from IoJ to FA came to the decision on their own and just gathered their belongings and left IoJ. None of them had any conversations with representatives from BT / RET / HOPE etc? Or that the first IoJ guild to move over from IoJ to FA did not act as a proxy FA representative to convince the others to come on board as well?

Well….they decided to transfer without any coercing from us. Then they probably talked to some FA and I’m guessing we said sure and then….they came.

I think this is getting dragged on a little bit.

If you dug in a little bit and researched the scenario you will realize that my scenario is a lot more likely than yours (fantasy scenario). Guilds do not make a decision to jump servers without giving it lot of thought, in order to get their information they have to talk to the destination servers representatives. Those representatives try their best to convince guilds to choose said server. That ‘convincing’ is known as active recruitment. It does not matter if FA approached IoJ first or if IoJ approached FA first at the end of the day active recruiting does take place.

For the record: In this last instance CD guilds inquired about TC as well. I had talked to them months ago (before paid transfers ended ) but they recently tackled the idea of transferring and contacted us. So yes, its the same situation.

You mean to tell me all 16 guilds that moved from IoJ to FA came to the decision on their own and just gathered their belongings and left IoJ. None of them had any conversations with representatives from BT / RET / HOPE etc? Or that the first IoJ guild to move over from IoJ to FA did not act as a proxy FA representative to convince the others to come on board as well?

Andy.9137:

The difference is that the IoJ guilds came to us. We didn’t approach them. I’m not too familiar with how KN got theirs…but the reason for this drama (at least my understanding) is that it became quite apparent (from quite a few posts now) that TC will gladly cripple other servers to make their server even bigger for that precious win.

Just because you were not in on the VOIP meetings with FA representatives talking to IoJ representatives back then; please don’t assume FA doesn’t have people actually actively recruiting as well.

lani.7431:

I don’t blame you for recruiting what I don’t agree with is your lack of regard for what these guilds transferring would cause. The size of those three WvW guilds you attempted to recruit were the largest on DB. If you had succeeded it would have effectively sent DB down several tiers probably causing more to leave. This disregard is what I think people do not approve of.

Btw no one paid me gold to come in here though I wouldn’t mind some.

Its up to the guilds that I approach to make that decision. I just give them information on TC, answer their questions if they are still interested. All three of the guilds decided to stay on DB. Its not like I can hypnotize guilds to move over. You just have to trust your guilds / guild leaders / commanders to make the right decision for themselves and for your server; which in your case I believe they did.

There was a reason I particularly approached these three guilds knowing that it would be close to impossible to get you guys since you were DB loyalists and that is because we want loyal guilds in TC to come over and stay here for good. The situation was similar with the CD guilds when paid transfers ended.

I approached EA, KREW and asked my buddy who is fluent in Mandarin to have a talk with NNK. Don’t know how that is all the guilds on DB. Everyone in their right mind would have approached NNK (including FA). We had one conversation with EA on mumble, we barely talked to KREW (could only get in touch with Evalana from the official forums) and were not aware that she was not an officer/guild leader.

When we were in T3 for a week we worked on training and coverage. We were aware going back up to T2 Kaineng and both FA would have superior coverage to us (true if not for the WXP patch) so we approached a few DB guilds, particularly NNK to be able to compete with Kaineng and FA. We knew we were going back to T2 (our natural tier) and so didn’t believe that ‘talking’ to DB guilds would be considered cross-tier recruitment.

I also helped recruit KH from CD before paid transfers
I helped ZN make their decision to come to TC
I helped AWE, NAGA & ESF make the choice to come over to TC.
I posted on FIST’s forums when they were still on IoJ (before moving to FA).

FA can Q.Q about our recruitment all they want. It just means we invest time and resources into making our server better which FA probably feels they are too lazy to do. I know that IRSyko is like the only person who is constantly trying to improve FA; over here its a team effort. Please do not try to compare FA’s coverage gaps back in T3 with TC’s coverage gaps for ages in T2, everyone knows coverage gaps are exploited way more fiercely in T2 than in T3 and TC is the longest standing server in T2 (constantly coming last ) in the current match-up.

You can blame me all you want for ruining the ‘competitiveness’ of this tier. I am selfish and my primary interests are always going to be for TC so I ask myself the questions that are needed to be asked. Do our SEA and Oceanics enjoy playing constantly outmanned against FA’s oceanics and KA’s SEA? The answer was no and so I helped recruit them friends to play with. Does that ruin the competitiveness of this tier? Looking at the overall score yeah → but competitiveness has to be measured in each timezone and with WM playing again, NA & SEA are both competitive timezones which is better than it was before; previously 1/4 timezones was truly competitive and now its almost 2/4. If KA and FA up their recruitment efforts maybe we can make other timezones competitive as well. (BTW I play SEA)

If you guys have any other claims/accusations to make or any queries/concerns related to my personal recruitment efforts you can go ahead and use my name, I don’t mind it at all; you don’t have to tiptoe around it.

So back to my questions. Who posted on RE’s forums? Who approached you recently FIST?

neomccoy.2657:

Lanimal.6541:

Haldunius.7864:

CHIPS.6018:

Thesilentflute.8761:

War Machine blackgate wants you! Come play with us in T1 we have a grand community that rewards the efforts of all of our battle worn solders. If is great fights you seek look no further there are fights to be had against the mightiest of enemy in foo and many others. We have high skill base but low numbers with your guilds help there is nothing that could stop us our glory Awaits.

The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.-Thucydides

Well you guys better be prepared to pay, a lot. A server (I won’t name which) is promising premium dollars for WM, RISE, CO (and maybe others) to head over. I am talking about crazy out of this world money here. But they said no since they didn’t want to leave their Kaineng brothers.

Thanks for staying all! ^^

Oh come on now. Such juicy drama and you won’t share?! We can play hangman or something to guess the server.

Through process of elimination all signs would point to SoR.

1. Its not BG because the poster talking about the gold gossip eliminated them basically directing us to ‘another server’.

2. I highly doubt JQ would pay more gold for more SEA guilds? They have the most insane SEA in NA by a long shot anyway, I do not think their SEA guilds would want to deal with even more queue times than they already have.

This leaves us with SoR who are coming close to competing with JQ and all they need is more SEA/European. Also they have recently upped their recruitment and managed to get AFS and Tsym so they are probably going all out.

or it could be a European T1 server…

Believe it or not TC posted in RE forum recruiting us. I find it funny or maybe just a troll I dont know.

When was this? I don’t think anyone in TC condones cross-server recruitment in the same tier. Do you mind telling us the nick of the guy who posted on the RE forums?

Haldunius.7864:

CHIPS.6018:

Thesilentflute.8761:

War Machine blackgate wants you! Come play with us in T1 we have a grand community that rewards the efforts of all of our battle worn solders. If is great fights you seek look no further there are fights to be had against the mightiest of enemy in foo and many others. We have high skill base but low numbers with your guilds help there is nothing that could stop us our glory Awaits.

The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding, go out to meet it.-Thucydides

Well you guys better be prepared to pay, a lot. A server (I won’t name which) is promising premium dollars for WM, RISE, CO (and maybe others) to head over. I am talking about crazy out of this world money here. But they said no since they didn’t want to leave their Kaineng brothers.

Thanks for staying all! ^^

Oh come on now. Such juicy drama and you won’t share?! We can play hangman or something to guess the server.

Through process of elimination all signs would point to SoR.

1. Its not BG because the poster talking about the gold gossip eliminated them basically directing us to ‘another server’.

2. I highly doubt JQ would pay more gold for more SEA guilds? They have the most insane SEA in NA by a long shot anyway, I do not think their SEA guilds would want to deal with even more queue times than they already have.

This leaves us with SoR who are coming close to competing with JQ and all they need is more SEA/European. Also they have recently upped their recruitment and managed to get AFS and Tsym so they are probably going all out.

or it could be a European T1 server…

Chasing mesmers is hazardous to your health

For the sake of competition I suggest

BG in T1 – They are an excellent server with a tight knit core community of guilds.
KA in T2 – They have the best off-primetime coverage in T2 when WM is playing and bolstering their NA would make T2 even better than it is
DB in T3 – DB needs more NA players and again like Kaineng has great offpeak coverage.

TC-er here

I will show up to any dueling event but then people Q.Q about mesmers and no one wants to duel me

I am neutral on GvG but I feel a lot of TC see terrain as a big factor in skill. Understanding and manipulating the terrain whether it be height advantage, LoS, chokepoints etc are all part and parcel of open-field combat. GvG unfortunately does not allow for that.

Looks like WM is back.