Guild Wars 2

AlietteFaye.7316:

Yes, but Precision and Critical Damage don’t have faults elsewhere. There are no bosses that cleanse off/heal from raw damage, and there are no factors that will cause you to do less damage in any party. Whereas conditions are useless in all the aforementioned ways, and the payoff is nearly never worth it.
All of this combined with the fact that ANet has already confirmed that Conditions are probably not going to be fixed any time soon? I just don’t see a good reason to purposefully go into Conditions for PvE.

The fault of Precision and Critical Damage is toughness, some bosses do conditions but every boss do damage. With a Condition build you can easily build it. As a power build you have to constantly do damage, the lack of survival might affect this. The solo reason, I went condition was for that little trait condition had.

Just as glass cannons complain about dying so much, conditioners are complaining just as much about the lack of raw damage.

Lebannen.8325:

yeah, one AoE can wipe out the turrets and what can you do in a 2 sec stun? Sorry. I doubt the supply crate. Ill keep sticking to my Elixir X and smashing people in the face or throwing people around in tower defenses.

MrForz.1953:

In very large battles the Elixir X can outshine the Crate, but the Crate is much more handy in solo or a small group fights. Not alot of people are crazy enough to fight an Engineer inside the Crate’s radius, the net turret in there is much more of a pain in the kitten than you can think, especially for classes like Thief, it is also a very reliable way to interrupt any important action including fleeing within 1200 range, you also have regeneration and some supplies when adopting a defensive posture.

In a ranking of Elites, Supple Crate fell into the top 5. Both Brute and Tornado did not even make the top 10. (All 3 of Mesmer’s elite are in the top 10 but that’s another argument all together).

It’s not too surprising either. What can you do in 2 seconds? The question is what “can’t” you do in 2 seconds? The two seconds stun is completely unattached to you (doesn’t matter where your character is position), is aoe, and can hit from a range this, by itself, is already elite worthy. In the two seconds, you can run, drop a heavy burst, heal, etc. Unlike transformation elites, this elite does not replace your skill set. If any other class had this elite as an option, it would compete side by side with their best elites.

I’m assuming untraited (because most people don’t trait for elites).

Now moving on. The three turrets.

• Healing turret gives your group a free regenerate stack, some classes will kill for a little regenerate. This puts the elite into the category of support elite.

• Net turret immobilize a nearby target. This is one reason, this elite so powerful. A immobilize going off every 10s makes this unfightable, in 1v1, in the area you dropped the elite in. This puts the elite into the cc category.

• Flame turret give off a cone based attack that causes a burn to nearby target. This attack is completely unaffected by your actions allowing you to stack attacks with it. This puts the elite into the offensive category.

The elite gives 6 bandages healing roughly over 1k each totally up to 6k health. 6,000 health? Does your slotted #6 heal even heal 6,000 health? This elite just gave you a free heal that can compete with your slotted healing skill.

Although some my argue that the elite’s weakness is aoe. It is in fact one of it’s strengths. Your target (both human and monster) has just wasted time destroying your elite, buying you time which would of other wise be used against you.

Elite overall: This elite falls into the support, offense, and cc category. All 3 all at once. Which means there is almost no wrong time to use this elite. It’s a versatile elite that can fit to every single build in the game, not just engineers.

Comparison: In very large battle, supply crate still reign supreme because of one sole ability: aoe stun. Stun is rank 1 as the best, non-class related, control condition in the game. Making it aoe is very overkill but very elite worthy. (rank 2 is knockdown because it gives off a obvious animation that usually causes people to use a stun breaker at the spot).

Transformation skills gives off a “Hit me” sign to players. The reason for this is because by transforming your are now locked out of your unpredictable skills and given predictable ones. Most Warriors will not touch brute and Elementalist only chose tornado because their builds lacks survival.

TLDR:
The flaw: The flaw of supply crate is that it is “too” good. There is no reason not to use it. One of the major flaw of the Engineer class is that Supply Crate has to compete with Elixir X and Mortar, two of the worst elite designs in the game.

Although, I really, really hate to say this. By not using Supply Crate in a serious build, you show inexperience as an Engineer player.

After the recent patch “+% Condition Duration” effects on runes is bugged. The condition duration addition is not applied.

The reason why + condition duration is in quotations is because that’s the effect that is affected. For example, “+% Condition Duration” effect on Superior rune of Lyssa is bugged, but “+% Bleed duration” on Superior rune of Krait still works.

I have tested extensively on three separate runes in pvp. Superior rune of Lyssa, Superior rune of the Lich, and Superior rune of Nightmare. All these runes have turned up with the same results.

The base for a group healing build is just Healing turret + Elixir Gun with some healing power. Healing Turret stack regeneration boon and Elixir Gun removes conditions and provide a healing field. Everything else is preference.

Did I open the correct link?
The build that came up was a Glasscannon verison of the HGH Grenade Condition build… Condition Build – Surviviability… What?

I’m missing something, can someone explain the playing style so I can see what’s op about it?

Shoyoko.7309:

Still under testing but I found kit refinement combos that still work before nerfs on the way:

Grenade to any kit
Tool kit to any kit
Bomb kit to any kit (as intended)
EG does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
FT does not combo with “to” any kit (even bomb)
Bomb kit to Tool kit / Grenade kit and then any kit after (3 kit combo)
Tool kit to Grenade kit to another kit (and vice versa- superbugged) (3 kit combo)

Another things I found out is the medkit is bugged from the kit refinement. When you use kit refinement, it also shares global cooldown of 10 seconds before you can spam it again. This means that you can determine when the kit refinement is ready by spamming medkit until you get the explosion or using a perma-swiftness timer (5 secs).

Internal Cooldown:
Elixir Gun- 20 seconds
Flamethrower- 10 seconds
Grenades- 20 seconds
Tool kit-10 seconds
Bomb kit- no cool down, instant proc. (bugged? gcd affected by FT & EG)
Med kit- no cool down, instant proc. gcd affected.

Hope this helps
Now let the fix countdown commence =P

My testing shows similar results. From my testing using Elixir gun’s kit refinement procs a 20s ICD and Flamethrower procs a 10s ICD to the kit refinement trait for all kits. Every other kit was exactly the same as it used to be. I’ll have to double check on grenade’s ICD, I was sure it was 10s.

The problem is that this is not what’s stated in the patch note.

\related note Elixir gun’s #5 is insanely powerful now when geared for healing. @1k healing power impact heal is 1k. If the patch note was what it’s suppose to be, (Elixir gun procs a 10s ICD) you can have a infinite super elixir field just by using the kit refinement super elixir (without using #5 on Elixir gun) talk about op-ness…

Terrahero.9358:

Ferum Flamebender.5910:

Maybe weird, but, aren’t downed skills ment to be a bit useless?

This logic only seems to apply to Engineers.

The damage of a downed Engineer is 1/2 – 1/3th of that of other professions. Giving 700 crits and taking 2.1k back…. yeah.

And nothing to really delay getting finished off. Your Grapling Line fails against stability, blinds, blocks, stealth, LoS (hiding behind a pet) and at a certain spot it also fails to pull and interupt something.

Professions are pretty much seperated into two catagories. Those who can heal while downed (Guardian, Ranger, Necro) and those who can move after downed (Thief, Ele, Mesmer, Warrior).
And Engineer is the exception to this. Who cant do either.

I think downs are pretty related to each class. If you take a step back, Engineers is the only class with two cc down skill.

The #1 down skills seems to be a condition based attack, while the power based one attack lays with #3. If a player is downed, or mob, near enough to me so I can get off #3, I can usually rally off of them because of the damage of #3.

Stability/stealth stomp gets pretty much everyone depending on the situation and warrior’s vengeance gets pretty much every class, even other warriors.

google.3709:

also… if you want damage STOP USING PISTOLS…. it does 60% less damage and if you’re on a team, the precious poison and burning will most likely become less effective leaving your DPS non existent..

This is exactly one of the argument I had with a friend. The pistol is clearly by far weaker then the rifle in almost every area (4 stacks of 5 second bleed is quite powerful when built condition), so why even make a pistol? The conclusion is that maybe the pistol is designed to be an group target weapon and rifle is designed to be a single target weapon which makes more sense.

Speaking from a trait-less, control only point of view:
Against a single target, you need more control because you are your target’s only target, this explains the short cool down cc on rifle.

Against groups of targets, you need aoe cc, rifle completely lacks this, but on pistol you have #3 bouncing blind, #5 pistol offhand is a aoe immobilize or #4 on shield for an aoe push and #5 on shield for an cone daze.

The long cool downs on the pistol keeps it from outclassing the rifle on single targets.

Have fun building your engineer.

#5
Invincibility Cripple Engineer: “I refuse to die!”

http://tinyurl.com/apuhvo6

People overlook Grenades in pvp because of how difficult it is to land in a match. Claiming that even their grandmothers can walk pass and dodge it. The solution was maybe you’re using grenades wrong! This build is a combination of an Invincibility Engineer and Cripple Control Engineer. People overlook exactly how powerful infinite cripple can be. The trait power wrench allows just that. Cripple on a auto attack melee weapon and Throw wrench tool belt skill for range. The rotation is simple cripple a target from a range run to mid-range and land lots of conditions just like the cripple control build. As an added twist, the Invincibility Engineer was added in get away from those tricky situations. The invincibility rotation is still the same: Evade > Gear Shield > Elixir S, always use in that order. When your endurance is out, Gear Shield. When your endurance and Gear Shield is out, Elixir S and get out of there.

Idea: The idea of this build comes from two Traits that sync very well with each other the powerful Grenadier Master Trait and infinite cripple Power Wrench Trait.

Op’s question have already been answer, so i’ll post this.

I believe this was the most fitting quote for the Engineer.

Each turret has a time and place to be used. Learn the full effect of each turret, use one at the right time and you’ll get comments like “@#$# turrets are op.”

I’ll give you a few example, in fotm Cliffside Fractal on the seal right before the final boss you can set a thumper turret next to one of the seal to distract a healer. Since turrets take no condition damage, they are extremely durable.

You can use a flame turret to cause an aoe cloak or simply cause the most op field in the game, the “smoke field”.

Edit Tip:
In WvW, if you are 1v1 a thief, a net turret is quite good. It will instantly immobilize the thief the instant he/she exits stealth. If you use the overcharge it’ll instantly stun the thief the instant he/she exits stealth. Just watch where the net lands and you can track the thief without knowing where he/she is due to lag imaging issues.

I consider the engineer class a very sandboxie class. The developers give you many, many basic underpar tools, but with the right ideas you can build Rome in under a day.

#1
Cloaking Engineer: “Engineers can cloak?!”

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY3zSVF1LJyoCdGoC5lIF5Xl95xblWQIA;ToAAzCpoay0koJbTumkNNE5IC

The playing style is stolen from very successful venom thief builds; where as you lay down long duration conditions then disappear into cloak. You will have every advantage a Venom Thief has, like being extremely effective at killing Mesmers and Rangers but none of their weaknesses. For example, you do not have to engage in melee combat to snare and combo. The rifle is better then pistol in cloaking builds because you do not want to land weak attacks, just burst condition combos + net shot at 8s cooldown doesn’t uncloak you. Leap shot + smoke field will be your cloak from range and flame turret’s overcharge + turret explode will be your CnD. Grenades is your main condition weapon. It’s purely a PvP build; monsters couldn’t careless if you cloaked or not.

Idea:
The original goal was a build similar to Mesmer’s phantom bleed build. Where as they summon phantoms to stack heavy bleed while hiding away in cloak. It failed because turrets have very long cool downs. The disadvantage of this build compare to the thief is that your conditions is GTaoe.

#2
Glass Cannon Grenade Engineer: “Kill or be killed!”

#3
Rifle Engineer: “Eat my #1!”

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0pqdHvSyF1LJxoHkO0iGki86XRFq8nCsF;ToAg0Cno4ywlgLLXOukcNE5IC

This playing style is stolen from ranger’s shortbow #1 skill spammer, where as they spam #1 skill on you until you die. In the Mist, your #1 on rifle can hit as high as 1.9k damage on heavy armored golem after using analyze. You will be fighting at mid-range combat similar to a #1 spamming ranger. Your infinite cripple wrench makes this very easy to do.

Idea: The goal of this build was to create a build just as annoying, yet devastating, as the short bow ranger. The original idea was a might stacking power build, but as it turns out you’ll get more damage going with % damage boost then raw stats might boons.

#4
Kit Master Explosion Engineer: “Roamer, Skirmisher, and Bunker!”

http://tinyurl.com/c76awqz

This build takes the combination of three separate builds: A Roamer (Swiftness), Skirmisher (Grenades), and Bunker (Bomb and Tool Kit) Build all into one and excels greatly in all three rolls. As a roamer, you want to be quick on your feet. 50% chance to gain swiftness and the #5 on Medi kit allows just that. As a Skirmisher, you do not want to enter a team battle but support from the sides. The grenade kit allows just that. Aoe from max range to a group allows you to dealt damage while staying out of harm’s way. A key element to be a bunker is invulnerabilities, Invigorating speed combined with infused precision gives you infinite vigor during battle just by attacking allowing you to dodge twice as many times as your target. As a innate trait for being explosion build, this build can cloak using the #4 Smoke Bomb from Bomb Kit and #5 Jump Shot from rifle to cloak every 20 seconds. For being a bunker build, this build has two confusion #3 on Bomb Kit and #3 on Tool Kit. For being a roaming build, this build is also a proc build along as being a direct condition build. Critical with any weapon can cause burning and bleeding. With that, this build has access to 9 out of the 11 total conditions at it’s finger tips. The raw weakness of this build is conditions, with only 1 condition removal this build can fall to conditions very easily. The second raw weakness is heavy cc due to the lack of stun breaker.

Idea: The idea of this build was to make a versatility build that is dependent of player skills instead of build advantages. Although weak to conditions, most condition builds are weak to conditions. As a result you will be playing a “who dies first game” with your target, where you have a clear advantage having access to 9 out of the 11 conditions easily in your hands. At the same time, Medi Kit’s bandages and Backpack Regenerator allows you to take conditions better then most classes. You can even use the Supply Crate elite to add Regeneration boon (stacks with Backpack Regenerator) to your healing pool. Most heavy cc builds are also weak to heavy cc, which this build also is. Immobilize at 8 seconds (rifle) cool down, knock back at 12 second (rifle) and 30 seconds (bomb kit tool belt skill), and a pull at 25 seconds (tool kit) allows you to control almost any build. Although difficult to master, if there is an OP engineer build, this is it.

Make all turrets 5 seconds cool down when picked up and 30 seconds cool down when destroyed/exploded (excluding the healing turret). The turret’s original cool down is now their overcharge cool down. Problem solve, everyone goes home happy.

Kamahl.3621:

snip

I play nearly the same glass cannon build! A glass cannon shouldn’t use a flamethrower because it’s more defensive way of combat, just like how a defensive engineer shouldn’t be using grenades.

Flamethrower doesn’t have damage. It’s just not there no matter how you look at it. What it do have is some pretty decent support skills like a fire field, an aoe passive blind, and a 15s cooldown cone push.

You forgot to include the 4 powerful tool belt skills that we have access to at all times with almost no opportunity cost. (no clones needed, no life force needed, no adrenaline needed)

Maybe something like this sounds more reasonable…

Replace Explosion Tier 1 “Acidic Elixirs” with “Turret Refinement”
Turret Refinement: Turrets cast a spell when exploded.

Healing Turret heals for 500 health with 0 healing power.
Rifle Turret fires 6 bullets away from the explosion.
Flame Turret burns nearby targets.
Net Turret immobilizes nearby targets.
Thumper Turret dazes nearby targets.
Rocket Turret does decent damage to nearby targets.

Suddenly a exploding turret build emerges!

After experimenting with every possible situation and weighting every skill, this is the best I can come up with. I’m quite proud of this build, it’s pretty close to jack of all trades. I use this build for PvE, PvP, and WvW. The only change is the Berserker amulet to Knight amulet when I switch to PvP.

It’s based on the idea that you make almost no mistakes.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/engineer#14|0|1207|253|4700|4603|4065|30|1422|1789|1885|20|1866|1433|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|20|1883|2270|0|0|0|0|28047|0|49962|49962|49962|49962|49962|25790|21080|0|0|0|0|

Isn’t the definition of love liking something for the way it is.

/on topic
Overcharge shot should be cone and not single target. Even the skill animation is a cone.

Medikit’s #5, Elixir B, and 20% Elixir cooldown reduction will give you infinite fury and swiftness.

There are two types are tank in these second generation mmo. Direct Tank and Evasive Tank.

Bargaw.4832:

People keep calling engineer versatile because he has no cooldown on kit swaping.

Engineers are in really bad spot right now, people refuse to admit it, because they think they are doing fine in dungeons, while in fact all you need in dungeons is tanky gear, heal skill + ability to dodge, fights take longer, but are impossible to fail because bosses have no enrage/regen.

Engineers are versatile because they have no cool down on kit swaps and the cool down are kits are relativity low.

Engineers are in a bad spot right now “because” dungeons are easy and there is little room for useful heavy crowd control. Dungeons are impossible to fail because bosses have very simple AI’s. “Harder” dungeons in GW2 are dungeons where boss hits harder not smarter.

Engineer

The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Engineers are known as the king of crowd control and excels in versatile and boon if built for it.

Kuldred.2436:

I’m confused. The question is about gear for WvW and PvE, but carrion jewels are sPvP only? These jewels don’t exist outside of the Mists, right? What am I missing here?

They do exist in pve, They can also go by different names. Anything with High Condition, Mid power, and Mid Vitality is called Carrion for simplicity. Carrion is more of a reference to the stats then the rune itself.

What Casia said.
As a main grenadier, I can confirm this. That was in prepatch: 6 grenades pre-trait and 8 when traited. So the damage decreased “is” a direct damage decreased.

I will test how much this affects the kit in pvp, tonight!

Both the trait and skill works in both pvp and pve. But I think I miss understood the question.

Adding to what NeryK said. The “projectile attack” has to go through the ally with a condition. Since you can’t shoot yourself, you can’t cure yourself.

Hm… is this in pvp or pve? I’ll go test it out.

Also the text does not say remove conditions. :P

I’m going to explain exactly why this is not going to happen, but first I will like to tell a little about myself.

I’m a former Attunment Elementalist, viability was in my blood. I believe that any class that allows for chaining of many skills have much more potential then a few but good skills. In a GW2, it’s not about what skill you used but how you used them. Believe me when I said I understood the Elementalist. Elementalist has this viability potential by design! Unfortunately, because of that they also suffer from and effect I call “the hybrid” effect.

Elementalist, no matter how offensive or defensive you build them, will always be hybrids. This is a ball and chain that will always hold them down. What is this ball and chain?

This ball and chain is their long cool down, yet medium damage skills. I consider the weapon swap sigil for Elementalist a gift from the developers to allow the Elementalist to have more builds, because they are allowed to become less “hybrid”.

Now to Engineers!
Engineers, by having the tool kit option, is basically another version of the Elementalist from a different approach. Unlike Elementalist, Engineer are given the option to be viable. Kit Engineers are like Elementalist, but instead of Fire, Water, Wind, and Earth, you can have Fire, Fire, Water, and Wind, or Fire and Fire, or none at all. Because the Engineer can branch out in so many ways, “the hybrid” effect will completely destroy Engineers who chose not to be an “Elementalist”. How do you solve this issue?

Welcome to Kit Engineer’s ball and chain. Weapon do not scale to kits. Weapon sigil do not affect kits. This does not affect non-kit users at all. If Kit Engineers are given this these, there would be almost no reason to play an Elementalist at all! Engineers can do almost exactly what an Elementalist can do, but much better. This is not a “Warrior is a better at range then ranger” argument, you will literary able to build a Engineer that does “everything” better then an Elementalist.

If you want weapon scaling and sigil, you must be prepare for the outcome. If weapon scale and sigil works on the Engineer’s kit’s skills, cool down will be increased drastically (~200% increase in cool downs) and kit skills will be weaken. (~50% damage).

Who wants this? Kit Engineers will basically be exactly another version of an Elementalist at this point.

That, misses and sirs, is what we call balance.

Edit: I missed a point. Engineers are missing weapon swap because it’s replaced with the tool belt skill. These 4 skills is what makes an Engineer an Engineer. Although some may argue, these 4 tool belts skills are meant to compensate for weapon swap and 5 new skills. Personally, I think these 4 tool belt skills compensate very nicely. The 4 skills are usually very powerful, yet short cool down. Not using your tool belt skills is equal to not swapping your weapon as a warrior. I’m sure everyone who has understood the Engineer has already knew this, I just wanted to point it out.

There are in-fact two types of conditions in builds. I name them Consistent Conditions and Explosion Conditions.

Consistent conditions build’s goals are to stack one or two conditions continuously on you. Using condition removal with long cool downs are very ineffective against these builds, because they will simply instantly put the same amount of conditions stacks back on you. Consistent condition builds are weak against conditional removal with short cool down.

Explosion Conditions build’s goal is to have many small stack conditions on you ticking at once. Condition removal with short cool downs are ineffective against these builds, because short cool down condition removal tend to remove 1 or 2 conditions only leaving you to suffer the rest. Explosion conditions builds are weak against condition removal with long cool down because they remove all the conditions are once. Explosion condition builds also have long cool down skills making it difficult to quickly reapply the many conditions.

Your build:
I see you are running a heavy toughness elixir build engineer. Your build looks fine. I think the problem you have is how you use those condition removals. your many elixir provides a counter to consistent condition builds and your Elixir C provides a counter to explosion condition builds. To correctly counter consistent condition builds remove conditions only when they start becoming a problem (ie, ~7-10+ stacks of bleed or long duration burns or poison) instead of the instant you see them. To correctly counter explosion builds save your Elixir C for those moments when you have ~5+ different conditions on you at once, it’ll take almost just as long for your attacker to restack those ~5+ conditions. (Unless you’re standing still and letting him nail to the wall, of course)

How I counter conditions:
Elixir Gun + Kit Refinement (5 Points in Tool)

Upon switching to Elixir Gun, you active a Super Elixir which removes a single condition and place a small healing field that stacks with regeneration and even with itself. If that is not enough Elixir Gun# 5 has a Super Elixir to remove another condition. Both Elixir are 20 seconds cool down. The Super Elixir is a perfect counter to consistent condition builds. For explosion condition builds, I tank their conditions. I also run a low health engineer build, but explosion conditions tend to be very short duration allowing my small healing field from Elixir Gun to counter act the effects. Not a very good counter, but it allows more trait room for my offensive engineer.

Off topic: Your pistol engineers is an explosion condition build. I recommend incendiary powder, adding burn to your condition list, if you want to be more offensive. :P

- Sincerly, An overly offensive engineer

How to fix tool kit:
Make it summon a weak turret or maybe a little robots as one of it’s skills -cough-#2-cough-. That way you don’t “need” to put a turret in the slots to make the tool kit serve it’s purpose.

I’d use it….

Why did I think “bunker build” means a build that gives up almost all mobility to survive as long as possible…

What happens if a thief spam pistol whips/heartseeker on you or a warrior does starts 100 blades combo on you? Not very defensive if you die to simple burst builds.

Like what Creature said. Have you tried comboing with the kits? Their cool downs are only .5 seconds allowing some pretty nasty combos.

For example, Combo + Rifle’s Overshot to blow someone away, Wrench Kit’s magnet to pull them back, whack them with the Wrench Kit’s pry bar, Flamethrower’s Air Blast to blow them away again. Talk about enemy control!

Bomb kit’s Smoke Bomb + Leap Finisher = Self Cloak
Bomb kit’s Smoke Bomb + Blast Finisher = Aoe Cloak
Awesome for surprise attacks and sneaky escapes. Thieves aren’t the only ones who can cloak.

achmed.6542:

autoattack? probably not gonna happen as long as its an area targeted ability.

I’m agreeing with this. I just can’t image how it will work since grenades don’t require a target. When do auto attacking begin? When does it stop?

Underwater maybe, but not on land.

I’m not sure what the OP is trying to accomplish, but if all classes have an overpowered build doesn’t that make the game balance?

What happens if a “haha I can’t die” build fight a “haha you die in 3 sec” build?