Splitting your damage up across different types is never as good as concentrating them.
Sword does good power damage quickly, not as well as axe, but there’s a trait to make someone who’s bleeding take 10% more damage (Other weapons can bleed on crit).
Lastly, of the damaging conditions bleed benefits the least from condition damage boosting. Unless you plan on getting those other conditions, I do not recommend stacking condition damage except for mightstacking, which boosts your normal damage as well.
No. The mesmer sword block from the oh sword does no damage and summons a clone. Of course a mainhand skill is going to be stronger than an offhand block.
Sounds like someone’s never used a shield.
Or used a guardian.
There is no “rule” that OH must always be less than MH, though that’s often the trend.
Regardless, we’re trying to make sword OH comprable to the other warrior OH’s. Perhaps in your rush to look wise you missed that statement.
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While I’m at it, may I ask why it makes sense for Distracting strikes to be where it is in the skills tree? Mace and Hammer are the interrupt generators, and their traits are in the defensive trees where they belong. Most of the other conditions are found in either Defense or Arms.
This means that someone who wants Distracting strikes as part of a condition build has to go to 3 trees to get what they want, and all the other power tree skills have no love for a condition build.
Sword offhand is universally regarded as the weakest offhand. That’s not in any kind of serious dispute. Partly that’s because bleed builds are so rare, but also because it doesn’t have anything that’s of much use.
Compare sword block to mesmer sword block. Terribly unfair comparison, I know but it illustrates just how far it has to go to even glimpse the backside of other skills in the game.
Riposte: 2 1/4 second duration. Protects against ranged projectiles during that time, can reflect them if traited. Against melee, blocks only one strike, which ends the skill and gives an extremely weak counterblow+bleed. Can be cancelled to give adrenaline. 15 second cooldown.
Blurred Frenzy: 2 seconds of complete evade, both melee and ranged, while also dealing out 8 hits all of which are of comparable power to the ONE counterblow of Riposte. 10 second cooldown.
What would the justification be for giving the weaker of the two abilities the lower cooldown? Is it any wonder that one of these two swords is used often, and the other is not used except by people who think that dual swords looks cool?
One possible justification would be that it’s a (weak) adrenaline-builder… if you don’t use the blocking part of the skill. But mace mainhand does the same thing and it’s on a 10s cooldown.
All I’m suggesting is to bring sword offhand up to the standards set by the other warrior offhands, NOT to match the power of mesmer mainhand.
The bare minimum for that would be to bring the cooldown down to 10s.
Better yet would be to give Rispote a brief interrupt attached to its counterblow so that it can trigger Distracting Strikes. Go with the weakest one, 1s Daze. Warriors have very few conditions, this would provide better access to one of them.
A trick (and I’m not sure why I’m telling you this), make sure that you keep the war crippled/immobilized/chilled, it completely screws up the boon conversion – the conversion will always convert the CC, and the bleeds etc never get removed.
Yeah, and can I ask why this hasn’t been fixed yet? It’s not like there hasn’t been enough time.
People on WoW complained about needing to stack resilience in order to stop massive crits from knocking them out in ~4s. We have an even worse system: Our “resilience” only stops people who use NORMAL damage.
Anotherwords, It gimps only those who need no gimping. That’s freaking brilliant.
It’s great for PvE, but absolute nonsense for the rest of the game.
Both guardians and warriors have decent support and DPS builds. The overall difference is that guardians rely more on active defenses than on being innately tough, warriors can be built for burst DPS while guardians can be more easily traited for sustaining themselves and others…
You lost me when you claimed the Necro’s gap closer was working. Sorry.
Sword offhand is kind of lackluster compared to your other options.
Sword primary builds with at least 25 in precision should be seriously considering going with non-condition damage, because the 10% bonus damage when bleeding only enhances non-condition damage.
Turn off ground targeting in your options. Then the skill will trigger where ever the mouse pointer is at the point that you hit the skill button.
Probably also turn off the melee autoassist because you WANT to be inside the enemy sprite.
What this thread addresses instead is a problem the engineer forum has had in the last few weeks, which is the conflicts we’ve been having and the flaming that’s been affecting our more open threads.
Why, you’re right. Of course we’ll all be ok if we just smack our heads with a wrench until we’re deluded enough to pretend that said opinion resembles reality.
That’s not a thief dancing on your corpse, it’s the frigging Easter bunny! Why can’t you just lie back and pretend you’re a winner? It’s so peaceful being a corpse… look at the bright side!
We can all collectively lie back, dead, and pretend that nothing bad ever happens. That sounds like a great plan for fixing things!
And look! All this spare time waiting for someone who won’t boot you out of dungeon and fractal runs means more time to post unassailable opinions on why engies are like totally 9 out of 10 so why doesn’t anyone want engi because we’re so cool lying on our backs and all.
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I was calling attention to the miniscule level of proof needed by people who claim engi is fine. The truth is that having someone spout a war story about how they killed 3 thieves once on a random class isn’t “proof” that the class is balanced, but some overly-credulous people treat it exactly as if it was.
Which is exactly what I was saying when I said that engies needed to trait just to be mediocre at something.
The person who I was replying to referenced the video, so using an example from that same video to reply to that person is valid.
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Just checked the dictionary. Pontificating is not defined as “arguments which the debater doesn’t like” and argument is not defined as “something the debater agrees with”.
Like it or not, you went from a “it doesn’t matter that I don’t do a lot of damage because I have great survivability” to a “wait! we have awesome damage and now you have to prove otherwise”. You’re obviously just changing claims until the other person gets tired and goes away, because NO ONE who’s serious takes flamethrower seriously as a damage weapon.
If you have an extraordinary claim, then YOU have the obligation to back it up.
Of course, you’re now going to provide all the high-level tPvP videos of flamethrower engies, right. Oh wait… that would be backing up your counterclaim. Can’t have that.
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Yes, you’re right. Every example ever provided is an isolated exception to the rule.
I was directly responding to the claim that super-best-engi-in-world could handle a 1v1, by pointing out that when he had a chance he failed pretty spectacularly. Notice that I did not pick that video, someone on the OTHER side of the debate did. That’s called evidence in most contexts, especially since you can’t accuse me of cherry-picking, which is what you propose to do.
But of course if an engineer-apoloigist makes a unsubstantiated claim that he won a 2v1 in WvW once, then everyone is expected to drop everything and worship the balancing of the engineer class.
Funny how evidence only works in one direction for some people.
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And there you go again, you utter the words “balanced kit”, as if that somehow excuses the lack of damage. These forums should kitten out “balanced”, “versatile” and “l2p” because they’re more offensive and mask more ignorance than the other words they censor.
Yes, it has ONE control move and ONE defensive move. That doesn’t mean it’s not a damage-oriented kit that people should expect damage from. Does warrior rifle have to drop its knockback and cripple in order for people to expect it to do damage? No!
And the apologist language is mostly because if it looks like you’re referring to anyone specific, the mods gank you.
Also because it fits.
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That’s because the apologists have been playing evade-the issue for the last few pages. Oh, and you seem not to have noticed that they haven’t been providing specifics either, but that surprises no one by this point in this discussion.
For example, I brought up the specific example of deadly mixtures not resulting in the damage-oriented kit flamethrower having decent damage. That observation was not refuted, but merely handwaved away by the apologist, claiming that he had better survivability. Changing the subject is a favorite tactic here when one’s argument is unsustainable. Had I proceeded to pin him down on engineer survivability, he would merely have changed subjects again, most likely to “versatility”, which would then be a full circle.
That is why people no longer take the apologists seriously enough to provide specifics or otherwise assume that reasoned argument will be reciprocated.
Lets review. THIS is what you said:
> a 100b warrior sure as kitten cant use banners, vice versa.
You didn’t start talking “fully realized” until AFTER you were called out. I realize you want to cover your mistake, but corrections don’t apply backwards in time, especially if you’re not willing to admit making a mistake in the first place.
Besides, even were we to give you every rewrite in the world, you’d STILL be wrong. There’s nothing wrong with a GS/Bow build that plants banners in the fire field, except that it’s tied to one place, which is a problem with all banner builds.
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Nope. Banner REGENERATION is 30 points. If you can’t think of a use for banners beyond that trait, that’s hardly my problem.
10 points + 1 adept trait is all you need to have one banner up almost 100% of the time.
Engineers are just fine for easymode PvE, where your biggest challenge is getting to the next map point.
It’s only when you compare it to other classes that you start seeing problems. You know, AFTER you spent the time in PvE building it up.
Unless you do something silly like use flamethrower kit. Then you’ll notice the problems a bit earlier.
No.
I am saying 100b means weak banners, ans banners means weak 100b. What forum language do you speak? Can I google translate for you?
Well, let me help you.
100b does not weaken banners, except insofar as opportunity cost concerning stats. Although certain forum dwellers might become alarmed and confused by the need to employ logic or provide working examples when spouting off, I don’t think that google will be of any assistance to you in that regard.
Besides, were you to suddenly comprehend the near-mythical notion of opportunity cost, then we might have some logical discussion about engineer trait placement, but alas.
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what are you arguing? do you even know?
That’s my line.
You are the one saying 100b means no banners. I see now that I was being overly generous by assuming you meant 100b/shout means no banners, which is almost as untrue.
And Penias, I apologize for assuming that you wanted actual damage to go with your damage-oriented kit and your damage-oriented trait. I won’t make that mistake in further discussions.
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Teldo doesn’t win 1 vs 1 because it’s not is job.
I don’t think he “can’t” win them, but he don’t have too. He is a support AoE dps. Losing his time in a 1on1 wouldn’t help his team.
Nope. 3:45, someone pops out of a portal and he promptly gets his butt kicked and has to run… er, I mean “go help his team”.
Try again.
This is what I mean about engineer-is-fine apologists. They can see the evidence right in front of their eyes, but they’ll forever have another excuse. Forever.
Oh, so they stay all bunched up in a group as a slow, slow, SLOW knockdown rocket shuffles over to their spot, and not one thinks to dodge it?
Or are you referring to all 3 simultaneously walking into the thumper’s radius without even considering killing it from outside its range?
Either way, we’re talking industrial-strength stupid opponents here.
If occasionally ganking more than one uplevelled noob means that the class is strong, then there is no such thing as an underpowered class, ever and all the devs can go home because all classes are perfectly balanced and will remain so forever.
Meaning, for example, that deadly elixir does not take flamethrower kit from okay to strong, it takes flamethrower kit from weak to borderline useable.
Those traits are not implemented as bonuses, they are implemented as bare-minimum requirements in order to use the kit without being heavily nerfed.
As others have already said, Engineer is the class that pays cash for its “versatility” and even then doesn’t get its money’s worth.
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You’d have a point except your definition of “proficient” seems to need work.
PS: Supply Crate + Elite Supplies = OP with a turret build, the fact i can win a 3v1 just by dropping that thing onto a point and dropping down my other turrets is kinda stupidly awesomely OPish…
Hey, I need some easy kills. Where are you finding 3 people stupid enough to just lay down and die to your turrets without killing them?
> a 100b warrior sure as kitten cant use banners, vice versa.
> pistols AND rifles in one spec, if you dont like kits
Lol, I was taking my valuable time refuting THIS?
Psst. Banner cooldown reduction is an adept level trait. Maybe you’re thinking of a banner regen build, because THAT is the GM trait. 100b + Shout-heals are more commonly used in WvW and sPvP because they can remove conditions, but if someone wanted a banner in there they could do so easily, and indeed it would help with a longbow might-stacking build.
My points still stand.
Yes, please. Make more arguments like this. Makes our job blindingly easy.
Who in the heck claims that seeing a occasional engineer in a role “proves” that they’re doing just fine in that role?
This is the internet. If you haven’t figured out by now that there’s five of everything, then there’s no hope for you, ever.
There is always going to be someone who’s out to prove that they can do something, whatever the disadvantages. There’s always going to be a person who just likes to do things their own way. There’s always going to be someone who tries to gain advantage from the fact that people don’t face competent engis in PvP because when someone gets competent, they move to a different class.
The only merit to that argument is that it distracts from the real issues others raise.
If you really want to abuse the shielding, roll a sylvari engineer and get another block skill, shield vine. Since it’s a toolbelt skill, it also gets instantly recharged at 25% health along with all the other toolbelt skills. That gives you 4 blocks to rotate through if you count the second vine shield.
Or you can try Pain Inverter on an Asura, but that takes 3/4 of a second to cast.
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I love necro threads.
“Our DPS is AWESOME, we just don’t get big numbers like other classes…
or lots and lots of smaller numbers… or much total numbers. Why are you so fixated on numbers, anyway?”
“But we’re okay because often I’m standing alone among the wreckage of my group, so why won’t anyone invite me to dungeons? We’re a GREAT supporter class!”
Yes, necro… you’re doing just fine.
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In my opinion, there are clear trends that one’s have to be pretty darn noob to ignore.
A thief group healing spec isn’t going to touch an elementalist healer, and both ele’s and guardians share boons quite liberally with high uptime, unlike a necro (who gets 3 seconds protection per well with high high high cooldown, even when traited).
So saying that all professions are equal at everything is to admit that you’re blind to these differences. Unless someone has a video of a aurashare necro handy?
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Except no other class has in it’s ‘description’ (that came out long AFTER the game launched btw) that it requires babysitting. To put it mildly it’s insulting. To be blunt it’s rekittentarded and lame.
Well, the engineer has its extreme “versatility” in its class description. Ask one sometime how that versatility is working out for them =)
I still look fondly back on my leveling setup: Sword/Warhorn and rifle bleed build: great map traversal, great melee AoE, great single target kiting. When you’re going catch what catch can for gear, there are no useless stats for that setup (although of course some are better than others).
Now, however… I’m still deciding.
It was Clagget’s turn to look uphappy. “Sir, he’s my boss, and he’s not a bad boss, but he is a little positive in his thinking”.
That was artfully done, Jones thought. not a bad boss… a little positive. He just called his skipper an idiot in a way that no one could ever call disloyal.
From The Sum of all Fears by Tom Clancy.
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Myself, I find that anti-wiki snobs are generally a lot less valuable of a resource than the wiki is, especially when their “evidence” is that the wiki dares to define CC using the same definition that stability does.
You’re right. Some people define fail as viable because they haven’t tried other classes or their egos are too wrapped up in their class to examine it objectively.
That doesn’t mean that “viable” is some fantasy invented specifically to make engineer look bad.
Engi has some decent might stacking, but guardians support well almost without even trying. Bomb kits are nice for levelling.
Remember that a staff guardian can drop huge might stacks on warriors as well.
Another thing to consider is that Guardian and Warrior share the same armor type, so you can’t give her your leftovers.
Some advice: Using the v-word in a non-ironic way causes people who’ve actually played the class to not take you seriously.
Also, some people believe that “omg all the stuff I can do is gimp compared to the other classes” reads like an actual problem. I hope folks forgive our aspiration to mere competence.
If you want actual versatility, you swap in an alt that’s actually good at the job you want to do. You will NOT find versatility by slapping on a different kit on this class.
Engi is currently in the same situation as the WoW druid after the first few patches. 4 different forms… and you had to gear and trait as ONE to get LESS ability than a specialized class. When you swapped forms, your utility in the new role was a bad joke.
I’m given to understand that’s changed. Now you can be good at 2 of the roles, and gimp in the other 2. Something like that at a minimum needs to happen for engineer. Celebrating fake, false and weak “versatility” won’t get us there.
Only a necromancer can spend most of his feats and most of his build for a measly 1 extra second of non-AoE fear and declare that his class is therefore not underpowered.
Only a forum-only-necro would show up to agree without realizing the irony.
I thought that for a few seconds, until I realized that spirit weapons take up the utility slots that we’d be using to buff them for AH. So while that might be the devs’ intent, the moment you actually try to USE them that way…. oops!
So your conclusion is that since you don’t see plans, they don’t exist?
That makes a LOT more sense than concluding that since you don’t see plans, they must exist. That position is to logic as kryptonite is to superman.
You folks don’t understand the difference between moderators and developers.
Moderators issue infractions. Developers are the only ones who can make game changes.
So being infracted does not mean that any dev or indeed anyone that matters payed you the least amount of attention.
Also, I appear to be the only person on the forums who’s noticed that the infracted posts in the dev chat were modified after the infraction. So we don’t know why they were infracted, not for sure.
I’d say that infractions on those kinds of threads must be transparent so that everyone knows why they were infracted, but moderators don’t appear to have a policy of explaining that to people.
So all we can say is that it is possible that someone got infracted for only asking about whether DS stomping will join the other classes’ stomps, and if so then that was a highly abusive use of infractions.
Adding CD’s to all the foods is EXACTLY what I think they’ll do.
They’ve been as busy as bees adding CD to almost every profession skill, and stopping at food would constitute an oversight from that point of view.
I wouldn’t spend money getting equipment for this build. Not because it’a a bad build, but ALL the classes are now putting up lifesteal pie builds. Even the poor engineers are putting up lifesteal flamethrower builds.
It might survive this coming patch without getting a cooldown, but it won’t survive the next.
My warrior is Norn, so I dunno about the Charrzooka skill. But Rifle has no AOE compared to longbow.
Unless you killshot a piercing-traited rifle into a WvW zerg. Then the AoE is quite LoL.
So stay out of the little red circles :P