Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.
Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves
How is that the same? Sword #2 skill is not instant (Infiltrator’s Strike is not usable under control effects), it’s a 2 step ability and the second step (Shadow Return) is a stun breaker and thus instant.
So yeah, unless you have already initiated the chain, you are not going to shadowstep anywhere while CC’ed.
There are very few weapon skills that are truly instant. Phase Retreat is one of them.
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The game is going to be FIVE months old in 10 days, let’s be realistic here. I keep reading the 6 months stuff, when it’s been 4 months and 3 weeks since it has gone live.
@lowell, what’s your “one shot” combo? Do you use haste or just the standard bas ven, sig, cd, steal, bs, hs combo?
basilisk, haste, cnd, steal, backstab, HS. haste just makes it basically instant.
i think thats the combo, but using haste b4 u open is just a waste, u should do basilisk, cnd steal > run around target > haste > bs (3 auto attack for poisen because they might use heal) and then finish off with a heartseeker if he dodges, so u chase him anywhere. and even ikittennow the combo, if u don’t move right u won’t 1 shot.
and the build for d/p is just different. if it had the same build as d/d (25/30/15)
i think d/p would rule over d/d. but ur going need a trait that gives u iniative when u go in stealth as d/p. the damage is actually same since heartseeker and cnd is same damage (even at 75 %+ hp)
d/p combo goes like black powder, heartseeker, steal, backstab. but the bad thing is that u won’t land basilik. but u can always save it for good timings.
It’s the same build and it effectively costs the same amount of initiative to execute the burst, because you actually take advantage of Kleptomaniac, while you do not with D/D.
You also hit Basilisk just fine, as Black Powder has a direct shot plus the combo field. The direct shot is what stuns the opponent.
not sure what level you play at, but bunker ranger is one of the weakest bunkers and can easily be killed by 2 coordinated people. u can still buy time, but two good players can win eventually. ranger is the least cheesy, and most balanced bunker in the game right now, with no stability and hard-countered by one or two immobilizes. anyway, this thread isnt about the ranger. i was just giving one example.
Any bunker can be killed by two coordinated, “good” people. Ranger is by far the strongest bunker in terms of damage, though. Either way, I didn’t intend to derail this topic, I was simply pointing out that things that might look balanced from your perspective may not be.
In fact, if you are trying to subtly imply that stalling two people as the “most balanced bunker” in game is fine, then you are making a case for those thieves who run these setups in order to actually be able to neutralize bunkers.
xeph, i really appreciate your post. this happens to me all the time on my ranger bunker. ranger bunker is a high skill cap bunker that’s very rewarding to play when mastered.
People tend to only see their side of the story. It took me a single day to make a ranger bunker unkillable by 1-2 people. Where is the skill in that?
And yeah, as you can read, I don’t disagree with the principle of burst being too high, though do not make the mistake of wanting to balance in a vacuum. These thieves are running these builds, because, foremost, it’s necessary and only then because it’s easy and effective.
The reason rangers are not a topic yet is because very few people have caught onto their bunkering capabilities. Rangers are just as cheesy if not more so than guardians and elementalists. Both ends of the spectrum need to be addressed for this game to become balanced.
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The solution is to nerf the damage modifiers that you can pick up through traits, nothing else. It’s obvious to anybody who has actually put some thought into it and actually played it.
Why do scholar runes add such a huge amount of damage? Why can you pick up 4 traits with damage multipliers of 10, 10 , 20 and 5% respectively that are additive? That’s the root of the issue.
Damage multipliers through traits for each and every class need to be non-additive. The highest multiplier takes precedence, period. Problem solved (once that’s done and we still run into issues, look at crit damage multipliers, because it doesn’t sit well with me that the difference between a non-crit and a crit can make a difference of up to 400+% in an attacks damage. That’s just too broad of a damage spread).
Edit: Before anybody asks 400+% is comparing a non-crit under weakness and a crit (weakness has no effect on crits) with all the crit damage multipliers, you usually see on glass cannons. Bring these closer together, in order to be able to balance damage output easier.
Obviously this needs to happen at the same time as bunkers are nerfed.
For the regular C&D, Steal, Backstab combo it would obviously be a huge nerf. For the burst out of stealth, it would make no difference, except for the fact that it’d be harder to apply on moving targets.
Before I say anything I would just like to say that I have played thief and I understand what the class is capable of doing.
A lot of people in this post don’t seem to realise that the issue isn’t only the damage, but the fact that thieves can come in at any point in the fight and insta gib / stomp someone before the rest of the team can react and that is really bad game design and not really enjoyable for players on the receiving end.
There is little you can do to stop a thief from one shoting a player who is already engaged in combat with another player and than getting insta stomped by quickness.What people fail to understand is it makes little to no difference how much toughness the thief has, if you can’t hit him in the first place or the fact that he can disengage most fights at will.
If you wish to compare thief to other glass canons your going to find that they are far more effective, because they are harder to kill, harder to stomp, harder to keep track of and they deal a lot more damage than other glass canons; so overall they are more effective than any other glass canon build in every single way.I do agree that thief burst needs to be toned down, or made in a way that it is possible to react to, because atm this game is a lot less fun not only for the hardcore players but also the casual who wants to log on for a few hours and have fun with game, instead of getting insta killed over and over.
Simply said, it makes me laugh that people try and argue the fact thats its okay to have an “Insta kill” ability because you have a window of 0.3 seconds to react to it.
Insta kill should not exist in any video game and detracts from the fun of the game, hopefully Arena net address this issue at the nearest time frame possible.
I play a thief and I agree with the principle, I just disagree with the fact that people believe that a thief is going to come in and instagib somebody and get out easily unless it’s a 2v1 situation in favor of the thief (and yes, those situations are frequent and it’s what makes the option of going full glass without any repercussions overpoerwered).
However, in any situation where the thief instagibs one player and is faced with 1 or 2 more opponents on that node, escaping is not as easy as you make it out to be, so that any nerf (once again I stress that this is warranted), has to be accompanied by a survivability buff.
If you go in and instagib somebody and even manage to quickness stomp (something that you should be able to avoid in the first place, as you can activate downed skills even before you actually see them on your screen), you are not going to be able to easily stealth away. You’ll have no endurance and you can not be pressured by anybody or you will simply have to retreat entirely (initiative permitting).
If you do not manage to get the stomp off and the player is actually revived, you are a sitting duck (obviously this is only true for the thief builds we are discussing above, other builds, have way more options to stay in the fight, nobody is questioning that).
I wanted to ask some questions yesterday in order to get a statement on two subjects that I see as problematic, though being in a hurry I posted in the wrong thread. Might as well drop the “thief and bunker” question here, in hopes somebody reads it:
Q: Assuming you follow the current meta in the EU, you may have noticed that when both sides utilize a heavy burst thief (regardless of whether players deem this to be balanced or not), there’s a high chance that the thief coming out of stealth first and actively participating in the match, is going to put his team at a disadvantage, as he’s most certainly being taken out instantly by the opposing thief.
As a result these two thieves usually play their own 1v1 match within the match itself. I honestly believe that this is not the way matches should be played or decided (4v5 on the map for 20+ seconds usually means you lose the team fights or small skirmishes on a node).
The problem with CnMugD -> Backstab:
The combo with quickness takes ~250-300ms (milliseconds) and deals 24k+ damage to anyone who isn’t a full bunker with protection up.
Not that I disagree with burst being too high for this combo and some others out there, but it doesn’t help your argument when you exaggerate so dramatically. 24k+ damage to “anyone who isn’t full bunker with protection up” is such a folly. 24k would only be possible to people who run full glass cannon and lucky crits on both steal and C&D and you’d actually have to proc lightning strike in order to get them below 50% for the following backstab (which would obviously have to crit as well).
This, by itself, means that you are hitting somebody with way less than 18k HPs, let alone 24k.
You are not going to instantly kill anybody with protection up, even if they run full glass cannon ever on the other hand, as you will never get them down to “Executioner” range for the backstab with Steal and C&D.
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Q: Are you not in the least concerned with the impact of Time Warp but also quickness in general?
Specifically Time Warp almost certainly decides group fights in favor of the side using it. Quickness, however, seems to be a problem in general as reaction times are virtually a constant, while abilities under quickness are sped up by 100%.
I’ll give an example in order to explain what I am trying to say with above statement:
Assume you are getting targeted by 3 devastating attacks with an animation time of .5 seconds under the influence of quickness. For clarity I will also assume reaction for the targeted player (he might be busy handling a situation) to be .8 seconds. Under normal circumstances, this player would get hit by the first attack and be able to evade attack #2 and #3. Due to quickness, however, he would get hit by all 3 of these attacks, which amount to .75 seconds of execution time, since his reaction time remains constant at .8 seconds.
Analyzing the situation, the targeted player just took 3 times the burst, just because of quickness, which increases execution time by a factor of 2. I think we can agree on the fact that many, if not any, classes out there, will be dishing out devastating, lethal in fact, amounts of damage, if they are able to apply 3x times their regular burst for whatever reason.
Q: Assuming you follow the current meta in the EU, you may have noticed that when both sides utilize a heavy burst thief (regardless of whether players deem this to be balanced or not), there’s a high chance that the thief coming out of stealth and actively participating in the match, is going to put his team at a disadvantage, as he’s most certainly being taken out instantly by the opposing thief.
As a result these two thieves usually play their own 1v1 match within the match itself. I honestly believe that this is not the way matches should be played or decided (4v5 on the map for 20+ seconds usually means you lose the team fights or small skirmishes on a node).
On the other hand, many thieves seem to be of the opinion, that they need to be as glassy as they are (and thus being easy preys for the opposing thieves), simply because there’s no other way to neutralize certain bunker builds on the enemy team. These bunker builds, being as strong as they are, will undoubtedly cost you the match, if they manage to stall your team on a node.
Are there any plans for reducing burst damage and survivability and bring both ends of the spectrum down a little, in order to avoid the inherent issues? If so, what specifically are your goals in this regard?
You may be aware that while burst is simply based on chaining devastating attacks in the least amount of time possible, survivability comes in different flavors. While usually survivability equals high sustain through healing, there are professions/builds that become as survivable as they are by means of excessive damage evasion and/or damage negation, so that any changes would have to be targeting all of these capabilities.
So basically it’s taking you less than 0.25 seconds to hit 6 keys, while watching your surroundings on the screen (it would really suck, if you got hit by a stun, right when you were about to to go all Beethoven on them).
I’d go visit a doctor. Though I suggest one that treats mental illnesses, because you’re either lacking any semblance of temporal awareness or suffering from delusions affecting your judgment of others or yourself.
Runes of strenght add 5% damage while affected by might=always so it compensates for dagger training.
Wish they did, but they don’t. 6 piece bonus hasn’t been working since release.
Either way, the build is incredibly effective and I have been playing it for a good 3 months now.
My advice, pick ogre or scholar (since the build allows you to reset fights quite easily). I would also suggest to get Hidden Killer instead of Executioner.
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Unfortunately this game is all about stalling to create superior numbers elsewhere, so that you can cap the points.
A game is not balanced simply because multiple classes are overpowered in the same way or fashion. That’s a mistaken assumption that I see used as justification over and over.
Which is why it’s not in Anet’s interest to keep the current burst and survivability potential at either side of the spectrum going.
Right now people play glass cannons believing that they are the better player and thus able to neutralize the opponent’s glass cannon(s), before they can get killed by them. Reality is, after playing and watching so many matches where the same people and builds are involved, it’s obvious that this “mini-game” within the matches can go either way, depending on factors that, often enough, are outside of your control.
We need to get to a point where glass can not kill or be killed as fast and where sustain doesn’t come through multiple times the healing your adversary has available, so that players can act and react, rather than not being able to act/react or being forced to, because they can’t endure longer fights.
Skill is about decision making, anticipating, acting and reacting. TTK has to allow for these factors to influence battle, else it becomes a coin toss.
Whoever is in charge needs to realize that. There’s a place for burst and glass cannons even in an environment where TTK from a single player is >5 seconds. It’d also encourage team play.
Watching streams where glass cannon thieves keep repeating on vent/teamspeak that they need to wait for the glass cannon thief on the other side to make a move, before they can act at all in fear of losing above mentioned mini game and leaving their team at a disadvantage, should open people’s eyes to what’s wrong currently.
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You seem to be serious about this. Tell me which class can’t solo the chieftain in any “viable PvP build”?
If anything a D/D power thief would struggle more than any other class, as they are as squishy as it gets, have pretty much no CC and not enough burst to take it down without restealthing at least twice (I am saying they’d “struggle”, though it’s still quite doable, as long as they have 20+ seconds).
Thief is also one of the classes that can solo the chieftan and also the best class to try and steal the kill from the other team…
Now that’s bold. You know, sometimes you can be 99% sure of what you say and still be 100% wrong.
If there’s any class you have problems with soloing those bosses, then you’ll have to reevaluate whatever amount of time you have put into this game.
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After further testing it would seem as if the difference in height between the location of your mark and yours when you activate Shadow Pursuit is responsible for the range discrepancies.
I am kind of confused and if I was paranoid, I’d think you just ninja-fixed this somehow. 30 minutes ago I was testing this trap and it would have that very range limitation I described. I just went back and used the trap again and the range seems to be working fine…
Is it possible that there’s a bug with its range working at some times and not at others? Any circumstances that would influence its range?
Imagine if you had the possibility to mark a target trying to capture your close point, while you are reinforcing the far point. You’d be able to port back and contest the point much like mesmers do with their portal. While the trap and the thief would be less ideal to deal with those situations (portal allows you to take back not just yourself and it doesn’t need to be actively triggered, while also allowing you to return to the point of origin in case you have no chance of successfully contesting the point), it would have the advantage of a much lower cooldown and a less obvious animation (easy to spot when the portal is opening, while the trap ports you back to your mark while also putting you into stealth)
This ability was recently changed and upon looking at its tooltip I immediately thought of various creative ways to integrate it into my playstyle. However, it would seem as if either the listed range or the Shadow Pursuit follow up skill itself is faulty:
Shadow Pursuit is listed as a 10,000 range on the tooltip, when in fact it is only 1,200. Now given that the trap is meant to tag somebody, when they actually actively trigger it, most of the times this is currently beyond the range of your Shadow Pursuit, thus not taking you to the marked individual but merely 1,200 range in their direction.
The description also explicitely states that you’d shadowstep to your mark when taking the risk of activating it within its window (10s). Not doing so and teleporting into empty space, while leaving you guessing, pretty much defeats its purpose and is why you don’t see anybody using it even after its redesign.
Since these have been bugged for quite some time now, I figured I’d post the stats and what exactly is wrong about them hoping they can be fixed quickly and easily:
(1) +25 Power
(2) +20% Swiftness duration
(3) +50 Power —> instead of giving +50 Power this bonus actually gives +50 Healing
(4) 5% chance to grant nearby allies fury, might and swiftness when you are struck (Cooldown: 10 Seconds)
(5) +90 Power
(6) +100 Precision
Kill Power, innate tankiness, and supporting ability such as frenzy and balanced stance make them gods of tpvp. They just aren’t played that way…other than by ONE person
Yea, Frenzy and Balanced Stance are really rare utilities among Warriors…95% of GS Warriors have them on their bar.
Balanced Stance offers no group utility for your information, unless all of a sudden a self stability buff qualifies as group support. If that was the case, each and everything would qualify in the same way.
Thief players logic is outstanding…….
So a person uses a stun break on a 40+ second timer and lives…
Few seconds later “man Im a super skilled ninja that other guy was a noob he did not even break my stun LOL”
Exactly how many stuns do you think thieves have, just out of curiosity.
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Look, I can deal with your lack of social skills ingame, I can deal with the fact that you don’t realize that AoE is the meta, I can deal with a lot of things. However, I can’t deal with straight lies such as these.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I have been quite irritated about the fact so little is said about this issue. Yes, you call it “meta”, I call it a problem, and what’s worse is that the teams running massive AoE don’t even realize how much of their success is solely based on a fundamental flaw in the current mechanics.
A point capture modus in a non-archetype restricted game with a more than questionable “healing” mechanism (i.e. everybody can revive and a downed player is a perfect point of reference for AoEs), any developer would have to realize that AoE abilities need to be balanced very carefully.
Same goes for CC in a game without immunity timers. How could anybody think having classes with an arsenal of CC and area denial abilities be fine, when there are several classes who have no reasonable access to stability? If this wasn’t 5v5 on a 3 to 5 point capture map, I could somehow wrap my head around it, but given the system 2v2 and 1v1s are anything but rare, so no, I really can’t.
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All that really needed to happen was to nerf utilities that instantly put you into stealth. So yes, Blinding Powder is too weak you say, but that’s only because Shadow Refuge is absolutely overpowered.
Take away the ability to stealth without having a target, without prerequisite and the class would be fine.
I am probably alone with this opinion, but honestly, does anybody here see them buffing our actual survivability before a nerf as described above? Hell they nerfed Shadow Protector, so you know they aren’t even looking at the possibility of making thieves tougher. Thieves will always be squishy as soon as you catch them and thus nerfing the damage must not be done in a vacuum.
In theory this build is great for controlling the enemy, however in practice, you often can not apply Tactical Strike from behind against attentive opponents, which in return will result in merely blinding your opponent for 6 initiative and some damage.
That’s the reason why people usually love it at first and abandon it, once they realize it’s very easy to counter.
It’s not the amulet that’s bugged, it’s the Knight’s Gem. Been like that forever. Instead of giving Vitality, Precision and Power, it gives Vitality, Precision and Toughness.
So no, you don’t get extra stats, you simply get the wrong ones.
Using Infiltrator’s Signet does not even generate an attack, yet it takes up a charge.
How did I attack something with my Infiltrator’s Signet?
Once you activate the new Assassin’s Signet active buff, you now deal 15% more damage on your next 5 attacks in theory.
However, currently, you lose a charge whether you just auto attack in the air, miss, use any other signet that does no damage like Infiltrator’s Signet’s Shadowstep or Signet of Shadow’s blind and all the other abilities that require a target and deal no damage.
Please fix this, so that it actually increases damage for attacks that do in fact deal damage.
Once you activate the new Assassin’s Signet active buff, you now deal 15% more damage on your next 5 attacks in theory.
However, currently, you lose a charge whether you just auto attack in the air, miss, use any other signet that does no damage like Infiltrator’s Signet’s Shadowstep or Signet of Shadow’s blind and all the other abilities that require a target and deal no damage.
Please fix this, so that it actually increases damage for attacks that do in fact deal damage.
I agree, its a buff for those thiefs that dont rely on killing their target with the initial CD + BS
….
the 3 of them
for the rest of terribads its a nerf that will possibly make them reroll
Except you didn’t think this through. The assassin’s signet will now affect Steal, C&D, BS and a Double Strike or on rare occasions a Heartseeker. That’s it and there’s really nothing you can do about it.
It would have been much smarter to have Assassin’s Signet only affect the next 5 attacks out of stealth. (All builds have stealth attacks after all.)
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While you’re at it, fix fast hands and unsuspecting foe’s tool tip.
I am aware of Fast Hands not working for the first weapon swap, but that’s definitely a bug that appeared sometime between BWE 2 and 3, so not sure why the tooltip would have to be changed.
Same goes for Unsuspecting Foe…what’s wrong with its tooltip?
It’s not a latency issue. I play a thief and it’s an exploit, that I have submitted a week ago.
Smoke Bomb is also a skill of the Illusionary Rogue (#3 downed state mesmer illusion) and it hits incredibly hard.
The way some people argue I totally expect at least one poster to chime in within the next hours and tell me how I should have stacked all my conditions on the mesmer when he was at 3k HPs and let him down me to secure the win with a rogue.
Don’t you people see the underlying issue. Can it be more obvious?
I suppose I should have cancelled my finishing animation at 3/4, because of the possibility that he’d spawn the rogue at that precise moment, right?
Still, all this talk about what could have been done is beside the point. Especially since it’s highly theoretical. What’s next? Is anybody going to jump in telling me I should have focused on killing the rogue while I was downed?
op as a mesmer you should have summoned your illusions and let them finish him or let them keep him downed while you wait and heal.
The fact that I was playing a mesmer is beside the point, as not everybody can keep damaging a target without actively engaging. However, let’s assume I would have run away to heal up, pretend I still had phantasms out and not used them to finish him to keep him downed. 15+ seconds later I would have come back to a mesmer in downed state and 2 illusionary rogues or a revived mesmer, if an ally had shown up while I was recovering.
I am all for arguing for the sake of arguing, but please tell me how, if we extracted the essence of this little experience of mine, it makes sense for a 1v1 between mesmers to be decided in favor of the mesmer getting downed first?
How can that fact be viewed as anything else than the mechanics being broken. The fact that his #3 in downed actually deals damage is making this painfully obvious, but the same is true for any other downed ability.
They pretty much all allow you to not only recover from your state, but, on occasion, to decide fights with it (be it with a team mate present or not). It is mind blowing to me as to how anybody could defend that, even if it happened on very rare occasions.
So last night I was doing random sPvP on my Mesmer and ran into another Mesmer at some point. It was a pretty clean 1v1 and I was lucky enough to put him in downed state with ~7k HPs left.
I ran up to him to finish him, though obviously he ported away the first time. At this point I was still doing fine, except for the fact that I was slowed and he had ported to a location that would take me a couple of seconds to reach.
I got there with reasonably high health, when suddenly I died to his Illusionary Rogue just before the stomping animation was about to go through.
Thinking about this part, I am sure there are those who will say “fair game, downed state is supposed to work like that” and those who think “losing 7k+ HPs while the other guy is downed is over the top” and I am fine with accepting both as valid opinions.
At this point, however, people probably don’t realize it, I had already lost this battle, simply because I downed the guy first. His Illusionary Rogue was out (downed state #3), while mine obviously wasn’t as I had just entered downed state. This is the part that I doubt anybody could be claiming to be intended.
How can I lose a fight, because I down somebody first. Why would he ever have an advantage over me, because of that. That’s simply irrational:
http://www.imagebanana.com/view/4l3qicld/Downedaintsound.png
- L2P issue?
Obviously, it must be a L2P issue. After all it always is.
Then suddenly something gets changed. Something that people have been posting about how it doesn’t work, how it could be changed and some very witty person had replied with a L2P to. Yet at that point, nobody remembers anymore and you definitely never see anybody coming back to the thread saying “perhaps, the guy wasn’t so wrong”.
- maybe if you finally stop thinking that downing someone means you have defeated him then you realise that downed player is part of the ongoing fight and therefore the focus is not shifting anywhere
I never said that downing somebody means defeating him, but if you are trying to make me believe that it is intended to occasionally spend more time in your downed state than in not downed in small skirmishes, then you better explain to me in which reality this would make any sense.
Reviving is additive, stomping is not. So yes, the more people you have, the faster you can revive, but you can’t really stomp any faster. [Before anybody adds quickness to this discussion, remember that quickness has the same effect on reviving and is definitely not too common.]
I said that everybody focuses on the downed player, I never said everybody tries to stomp him. Nonetheless, fact is, whether it is to revive, stomp or prevent either, that guy just became the main priority on the battlefield.
I don’t see how TTD being lower than TTK can be irrelevant at all. When a 1on1 has 5 seconds of fighting and 10s of finishing, then something’s wrong. No matter the circumstance.
Downed state is excellent.
How is downed state excellent? I am confused, as I have pointed out several problems with it. anyway, here some more:
- You can revive faster than you can finish
- Abilities to ensure revives and prevent them are not equally shared, yet the game is decided by 1on1 and 2on2 encounters, which obviously are bound to see any combination of classes engaging in them
- TTD[own] is often lower than TTK[ill] even, when nobody else is present
- When a player is downed, the focus shifts away from the actually ongoing fight and to 95% to the downed target
There are many more problems.
It’s time to swallow your pride and get rid of the downed state mechanics entirely.
We got it, you wanted to be innovative and it’s much appreciated. You do have to realize, however, that not only are you making your own life harder in regards to balancing and the evolving meta (and it won’t get any easier in time), you are also creating a completely one-dimensional gameplay once a player has been downed.
Once somebody on the field is downed, unless you have absolutely devastating AoE damage, nothing matters more than finishing the downed guy. There may be 3 people still present and alive, yet you will see everyone focusing on the downed guy at the cost of their own life even.
Is that really what you intended?
People in downed state should not be able to heal or be rezzed, do damage or anything else. Make them choose between respawning with the next timer or wait in the down state for their team to finish somebody off in order to rally.
That way, the downed player still remains meaningful enough for the team to try and stomp him, but he is not the top priority any longer. You still want him finished, because you don’t want him to rally in case one of yours gets finished first.
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you mean 916 toughness. but what would hit harder a rogue getting hit by evisc at 916 toughness or a warrior getting hit with Backstab at 1800+ toughness (at the same power of 2k and 60ish crit damage. well the rogue does, about 2k more at that!!!
What if I showed you an Eviscerate on a golem for 15k+? Would you be able to show me a Backstab for over 25k? Because that’s pretty much what you’re claiming here.
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