Guild Wars 2

darkace.8925:

Just in case the devs are ignoring the other threads relating to the longbow changes, I want to toss my hat in the “I hate these changes” pile. Why? Allow me to explain.

As a PvE player, stealth on a longbow does me absolutely no good. My pet tanks for me while I attack from long range. And I have an area of effect cripple. And I have a knock back. Stealth simply brings nothing to the table for a PvE longbow user. So Hunter’s Shot is now a dead spot on my already limited skill bar.

Expanding on that, Rapid Fire now applies 10 stacks of vulnerability. But it does so gradually, one at a time. So it will never benefit from the full 10 stacks, whereas it could with the old Hunter’s Shot. And because Rapid Fire is now a condition applier, it’s role has changed. It used to be something held in reserve for when targets made it inside the Long Range Shot’s damage drop-off (1000).

Where I used to open a fight with 20 stacks of vulnerability with Hunter’s Shot and Opening Strike from me and my pet and held Rapid Fire for close-ranged enemies I now open with 10 vulnerability and have a completely useless weapon skill.

If the idea was to get people to use the longbow with Remorseless, I don’t think that’s going to work. Between Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter, Steady Focus, and the signet traits, there’s just too many good traits competing for too few slots to justify resetting Opening Strike once every 12 seconds.

tl;dr – I hate the change. I implore to change the longbow back and add a stealth skill whenever you roll out your new skills and traits system latter this you if you feel you must give the longbow a stealth skill.

I’ll throw my hat in that pile as well. Stand strong because there are a lot of opinions out there that can’t see past pvp.

Raven.9603:

Miflett.3472:

darkace.8925:

This reply is to a post from another related thread that seems to have vanished.

Thank you, and I agree completely. I love when things mysteriously vanish; my only hope is that they learn something before they delete it. People have a tendency to throw out a good dissenting opinion just because it ruffles some feathers.

I want a PvE viable single target power based bow. Where’s that option? Nowhere.

Where do we already have utility options? On every other weapon in our freaking arsenal.

A dissenting opinion? The OP is pretty clearly in the minority of people who are upset about the longbow buff.

As far as viable bows, are there any viable single target ranged weapons for any class in the game? Not really. Anet has the melee-should-do-more-dps mentality, and as long as their heads are stuffed into that hole, bows, staves, rifles, they will all be second rate.

That was in the reply to the old thread not this one. And for the other point, every mmo should have a bow class. If the ranger can’t be that, I don’t think I can continue to find fun in the playstyles moving forward.

darkace.8925:

This reply is to a post from another related thread that seems to have vanished.

Thank you, and I agree completely. I love when things mysteriously vanish; my only hope is that they learn something before they delete it. People have a tendency to throw out a good dissenting opinion just because it ruffles some feathers.

I want a PvE viable single target power based bow. Where’s that option? Nowhere.

Where do we already have utility options? On every other weapon in our freaking arsenal.

Be sure to say kitten you to all the PvE roamers when you go.

I kid, I kid. But not really.

swiftpaw.6397:

Conan.8046:

swiftpaw.6397:

To those who want damage- Try melee.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

Rotation = 1111111111111111111111111111111111111

And? That’s just how it is. You want damage, that’s what you have to do. You will never get decent damage on ranged weapons, it’s against what A-Net wants.

While you are correct, that’s pretty kitten sad.

Personally I didn’t need a stealth in PvE to keep me alive. This hate is coming from the fact that every bow weapon is being forced into a support role like every other class while melee still stands at the forefront.

Play style also has a big impact on it. I’m an aggressive player and the last thing I want to see on a weapon I have high hopes for is a disengage.

I miss the days of circle kiting and a bow class that actually had uses for bows outside of aoe dungeon clearing.

Here’s my opinion:

- Shortbow needed to be differentiated from the Longbow between power rangers. Right now, both weapon vie for the same spot which shouldn’t have been the case. Shortbow needs to see an improvement on conditions in terms of length and reliability. It’d be cool if SB 5 had that new condition on a short duration to give more advantage to kiting, but that could go either way.

- Above all else, Longbow needed a kitten damage buff on it’s auto-attack more than just buffing the cast time. Something that ArenaNet has shied away from time and time again. If I still am having doubts as a power specced ranger between shortbow AA and LB AA, something is wrong. The problem with LB wasn’t necessarily in the skill mechanics themselves, but with the absurb amount you had to spec into MM to make it viable. My proposed changed would include a minimum range decrease on the AA, and very slight damage buff on AA, and a reduction of the barrage precast time.

- And for the love of melandru, consolidate those kitten MM bow traits so that bringing a bow doesn’t mean a whole traitline for one weapon.

The most concerning thing to me is how to be dps competitive as a ranger you must be using melee weapons. Gone are the days of circle kiting with a decent bow that doesn’t mean a whole traitline to make a single bow usable.

Remorseless is still not worth it; another reason we need a MM trait consolidation.

Because the only mode you should be doing is anything involving pvp, says the man at the top.

In PvE, I’m seeing a trend were competitive rangers are forced into melee weapons which I’m not liking.

On a constructive note however, they NEED to consolidate some MM traits to make picking a bow not so kitten trait intensive. That was the real issue. Now we have an even more awkward LB in PvE which leaves too much dead time between cooldowns.

If anything this patch showed the true weakness of the LB that no one wants to touch; the janky rotation and an underwhelming AA that arena net refused to allow greater damage at closer ranges. Hell the SB in power spec still out performs the LB.

Vadrillan.9185:

Miflett.3472:

hyjaxxx.1584:

would this not be a free agro wipe with a mechanic to make up for the dip in sustained damage with the opening strike crit on stealth?

Thats if you go 30 into MM and take the trait.

It’s 25 points for the crit on Opening Strikes btw, no major trait needed. Just saying.

I obviously know that, but to make that trait even slightly worth it you need the 30. I said that in the broad context of which he replied which made it sound like a free benefit when it most certainly isn’t.

hyjaxxx.1584:

i have a question, people are complaining about pve ….i dont pve at all but…would this not be a free agro wipe with a mechanic to make up for the dip in sustained damage with the opening strike crit on stealth? ( i know its bugged right now) but it seems clear as day that you can now go balls to the wall then wipe agro with stealth.

Thats if you go 30 into MM and take the trait. I’d argue that even then there are better traits than remorseless to pick. If you don’t go 30 into MM what you got today in PvE at least is a dps decrease with an agro drop that you may have not even needed.

I’m hoping that this patch today has laid the foundation for a consolidation of MM traits, because right now we have too many vital traits there with too little space.

Remorseless should have been a kitten class mechanic, lol.

Agree 100% Shiren.

“Keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate.”

- PvE Player

I’m reserving judgement until I’ve had time to properly see everything, but what I want more than anything is devs with a clear vision that includes both pve and pvp.

And this change makes one skill a total bore in PvE, in other modes very nice, but I can’t help but think a longbow redesign could have been better managed with all aspects of play in mind.

I too think of shortbow when I think of stealth; adding a short stealth on the daze would have been nice, then all they would have needed to do was to tweak the spread on the #2 poison. Now that I think about it SB #3 evading back into stealth would have great interactions with the daze instead.

For the longbow all that was really needed after the damage increase was a further minimum range decrease on the autoattack damage modifiers and a cut back on the precast of volley.

Orrian Battleship

But a vote for Ellen Kiel is a vote against RNG!

If they really want to do this all they would need to is make all MF not able to be equipt or turn them into tokens refunding all runes placed on them and then allow the owners to pick a new fresh exotic set out from a vendor in LA. The same goes with ascended accessories.

Hard achievements are fine, but tied to a very time limited event? Bleh…

I don’t have a problem with achievements being hard to get, quite the opposite actually. It’s just time limited achievements which artificially take someone out of the running because he or she might not have a solid 3hrs straight to play a dungeon or what have you.

I’d like to show my support as well. Temporary challenging content really leaves out many people, and even becomes a drag on more hardcore members when you know in order to even have a slight chance at an achievement you need to sit through an 1+ hour dungeon clear.

Hopefully we will see a return of all living story dungeons in something like a fractal capacity with the original dungeon related achievements still attached. Hell, even a separate category for dungeon achievements would be nice. Even as someone who has completed flame and frost would love to be able to go back to specific times in history and replay some amazing boss battles. The fractal system makes this a very lore friendly possibility.

This is the part that I have been going over in my head, wondering in bewilderment the whole time:

Obviously Jon is not happy with the longbow and even now, after its buff, succeeds that there is still more work to be done with it to make it stand out. So, is it really surprising that people used the shortbow over longbow, then? Why nerf the supplementary shortbow then if you flat out admit that longbow had problems? It’s down right hipocracy to think that anyone given the choice would choose a lower tier weapon for the sake of build diversity.

What should have been done from the start was to make longbow stand out on its own merits. This BS about longbow and shortbow ranged weapons shouldn’t have the same range is crazy.

What I see in the future is a big split between bow types depending on which stat build you are going for. Condition rangers will go shortbow, while power rangers will go longbow. To keep from discouraging either build, they should both have the same range!!!

It really seems like arena net is forgetting that the bow is what draws a lot of people to the class in the first place. They act like players are wanting other weapon options, when in reality we want a strong bow class that has the options to get in and out of melee on our terms. Comparing the thief shortbow to that of the ranger is down right blasphemous.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Also disappointed with the questions asked. Most especially the most asked for question, ‘what direction is this class going in’, was not asked. Covered some points, but avoided many important ones, especially points that are very important for PvE players.

Totally agree.

Durzlla.6295:

Oidmetala.8426:

oh, wow

that was much love for ranger on sotg again.
bb gw2

Sarcasm? And can someone post a link? I’m at work atm and thus don’t really wanna search through stuff with audio right now.

They talked about restructuring LB skills to combine skills and place a more power integrated skill on the bar. Power ranger love (perhaps). Active condition removal focus. Making pets and spirits more survivable in PvE.

They are firm on keeping the SB and LB range. Not too much talk on splitting leash range in PvE/PvP.

I’d love to see a blast finisher on lightning reflexes. It even sounds like it should be.

Chopps.5047:

I’m of the opinion that arrows should pierce by default and longbow should be default 1500 range. Because right now you need 3 separate traits to effectively use bows, shutting the player out of traiting for signets or traiting for pets. This is a lot of the reason that Malicious Training—a fantastic adept trait by the way—fits into few builds (why go malicious training when you have to give up steady focus, signet mastery, or keen edge? Can you really justify Expertise training in the already tight Wilderness Survival line? etc). Just a thought…because I find that there’s a lot of neat builds in theory, that would only work if you have 80 points to utilize. Ever get that feeling? That it’s always 10 points away?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Arrow piercing should be kitten ed baseline with bows.

Poor me, I did my research before deciding not to purchase the chest for the recipe when it was clearly bugged and got rewarded for my diligence.

I do not like the precedent of RNG only account bound recipes. That’s not vanity, no matter the quantity of benefit. I shouldn’t be relegated to go through another player for food if I chose to farm those ingredients myself.

There’s some “entitlement” issues all around, but not all who are against this stuff are whiners. This is a very slipper slope that repulses some players. I know for one when I saw this was account bound, I was sick.

In the future, if they want to introduce these recipes to diminish the candy supply they should do what they did with the halloween event and make them purchasable from the crafting merchants, or as drops from dungeons — never account bound.

It seemed greater than 3000 before the patch, but I think they over did it personally. They should have split leash range in PvP and PvE.

PvP: 2000
PvE: 3000

I’m always on the lookout for new builds, especially after this new update. I recently wanted to toy around with getting rid of my longbow on occasion and your build got me thinking.

Here’s my adaptation of your build: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VG;4wEFx-a2REV-0;9-8I;1JO9E-07-04-5;04;3LRF5;2zxrUzxrUo-kKVH-6;2Vd-i0o1sYzZ352o-G-2i;9;9;9;9;9;9;0V8k3z

I’m more on the casual side of things, but I think it balances twitch skills with raw dps.

Alright, this is gonna be a somewhat random post but there a small number of things that currently bother me with the certain abilities I use greatly.

- For one, since the last patch, shortbow #2 skill seems to be much less reliable when effected by quickness. Namely, I’ve had the skill not trigger and immediately go into failed cooldown.

- Also related to this last patch, shortbow #2 skills hitbox is absolutely miniscule now. It seems that reducing its range has also reduced the area of its hitbox on enemies. It is not uncommon now to be very close to an enemy and have only one arrow hit. This means a measly 2 seconds of poison.

- Not really a big deal, but lonbow #4 skill has a maximum range of 600. Its tooltip has an indicator for knockback when firing at an enemy greater than 600 away. Since this skill would miss in that circumstance, why is this needed?

- What about making shortbow #3 skill also apply the same duration evade/invulnerability on the pet? Since shortbow is now a melee oriented weapon, and being that a pet will be in the same range when attacking, it’d be cool for the evade to effect both.

- Leash range split between PvP and PvE? 2000 =/

- And lastly, because I use it so very much and being that it would have great interaction with healing spring; Can we make lightning reflexes a blast finisher? Pretty please?

These are just some things that come to mind when I play, this isn’t meant as any type of comprehensive view of any means.

PvE and PvP don’t mix very well. I’d thought they’d know that by now.

- Dungeons in PvP where you have to take control of the dungeon to play it? Cool.
- Menial tasks setup to frustrate and reward non-fair play? Bad.

Zaxares.5419:

Yeah, I’m hoping that enough people go “WTF, ANet, I don’t want this recipe! I don’t even have a Chef! Let me sell it!” and ANet obliges and makes the recipe tradable.

You and me both, bud. This non-stop farming for the next content to come through the gemstore is wearing me down.

Zaxares.5419:

The recipe is account bound? Crud. Well, guess I’ll be opening any Dragon Coffers I get from now on instead of selling them. (On the bright side, I might finally get a ticket!)

If the recipe calls for Zhaitaffy though, then I’d like ANet to put in a bank collectible slot for them as well.

I’m pretty sure the new recipe only drops from the Gem Store Rich Dragon Coffers, which makes me a sad panda.

I want to make cookies too!

8’ [

Well if that reddit post is correct it looks to be account bound. GAH.

For the longbow, I think barrage damage should be buffed slightly and a short duration immobilize should be added to Hunter’s Shot.

lordkrall.7241:

DrMatt.9408:

ye I use condition duration food myself, but whats going to happen to standard raw stat boosting food now? omnomberry bread anyone? don’t think so

That still doesn’t explain the whole “P2W” you keep shouting about.

It’s not pay to win in a serious manner, but it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth because I know this is where the future of GW2 lies. Every new piece of content revolves around a pay gate, and if you can’t pay, then no new content for you.

Acount bound recipes, bleh.

DrMatt.9408:

Have you seen the stats of the new food? Its insane: 260 mixed stat + 5% crit + 20% MF + 10% EXP. Clearly superior to pretty much any other food available, and Im still waiting for the recipe to appear on the trade post, as rich coffer buyers are currently trying to flog it for 40 silver each. Looking like P2W atm unless something changes

I’m praying it’s not account bound. If so, I will cry into my pillow uncontrollably.

It’s currently down due to a bug. No ETA yet when it’ll be available for play.

Anyone know if this is account bound only? If it is, my insides are gonna rage.

Rangers favor bows? That seems off says ArenaNet balancing staff; better nerf the range just to be sure.

Taking the range out of Ranger. ©

The Vol 2 Book should include classic dances from our favorite GW1 professions. If I could dance like my favorite GW1 Minion Necromancer and do some amazing metal jumping around I’d fall in love.

Can’t some see the other side of things? I support taking the RNG out of things AND the addition of actual progression pieces in the open world that don’t revolve 100% behind the gem store or RNG.

Supporting arena net by buying only skin content in the gem store is indeed nice, but can’t you also see the other side in this argument? This is how arena net makes their money, yes, but some don’t like how literally every piece of new skinned content has come in the form of gem store purchases outside of back pieces.

Supporting arena net for developing real content in the gem store is always nice, but don’t get too drawn in by the “we need to do this for them” attitude. I’d say, personally, we need more voices on the forums in support of actual progression content in game not under a pay wall.

Remember: Actual progression content and gem store content is not mutually exclusive.

Xsorus.2507:

jcbroe.4329:

MementoMortis.4258:

It just seems so crazy to nerf an AI controlled, unreliable and inconsistent source of damage that can be kited or killed SO easily.

I’m so mad right now.

This opinion is where I think the line gets drawn and things need to get spelled out.

In a game with competitive game modes, you simply do not load up an AI with a large, near majority of damage output, and then try to call that competitive. Managing pets in this game is about as hard as sitting on the toilet and playing angry birds at the same time.
You do 4 things, you say go attack stuff, use this specific, mostly arbitrary for all but a few pets skill, come back, or you swap the pet.

The pet handles literally EVERYTHING ELSE. It paths itself, it autoattacks, and usually except for maybe birds, the most damaging attack is built into its attack chain that it AUTOMATICALLY executes. If this was a shooting game, the game would be aiming the gun for you, and all you would have to do is pull the trigger once, and then the game would keep firing the gun for you until what you are shooting at is dead, or you want to stop.

That type of mechanic, combined with how much of the damage the pet accounts for, is not competitive, no matter how avidly people argue it to be. It would be balanced if the player had to physically manage to execute every skill that the pet was capable of, and manage all of that, because that level of management would be worth the damage potential.

But with such a simple system, the pet should have never had so much damage potential in the first place. They should have been a sustainable 10-20% of the damage output with a higher purpose being to provide improvable utility for both the player and potentially groups of other players, and should not in any way in this system be easy to kill because of how inconsequential it would be in determining fights, AKA, you can’t just let it attack you, you have to kite, and killing it would make the ranger player lose benefits for themselves and the team.

There is no way in the world the pet system is good, but there is also no reason why the damage being on the pet in this system is even remotely okay unless it is a much more controllable feature of the rangers arsenal.

I’m sorry, but calling TPvP Competitive in comparison to other MMO’s is stretching it.

8v8 in DAOC was far far more Competitive then this game, and it had plenty of classes that did the majority of their damage from pets.

Bonedancer’s for example, Theurgist, Animist ect ect.

Thing is, with DAOC 8mans learned that you couldn’t just ignore pets on the field. Because if you did you’d lose…So if for example, dealing with a Theurgist you’d have a Dedicated AOEr just to handle Theurgist pets, That was his job….Bonedancer pets were often focused down because they were annoying as hell if you let them run around (not to mention they hit incredibly hard when ML9 was up)

This game is completely different, if there a pet on you in TPvP, no one wants to be forced to deal with that pet..Instead they prefer their damage not be noticeable so they can ignore it. Its same thing with Mesmer’s really, They’re basically Theurgist, No one wants to clear Mesmer pets… so they want them nerfed the same way…

Now I know you’re going to say “Well I’m talking about Structured” and i’m going to say.. WAR was pretty similar as well…. Squig Herders for example had pets that you absolutely did want to kill…Because they could ML3 their Spiked Squig and instantly kill your casters. White Lions even had some similar builds that put their damage on their pets (not to mention when the pull existed, you absolutely wanted to kill that pet before it got to you)

Rift for example also has Pets that again make up the majority of the characters damage…. and they’re killed as soon as possible because of that…

This is the one game that i’ve seen where the player base just doesn’t want to deal with actual strategy, They want to stick to their nice safe strategies and not change the meta any. This is partly the reason why I think they shouldn’t be trying to balance this game around the Esport nature, Because it’ll never be an Esport…Because the TPvP is a joke…

To use a HoN reference (because I don’t play LoL), If this was HoN the top players it seems would be kittening that BooBoo from Wild Soul is to powerful.

I wanted to log in just to thumb up this post. I played as a SH in Warhammer Online for many years and can attest to just how involved a good pet class can be. It’s a mentality today in newer pvp games where players don’t think they should have to deal with pets just because they think they are some carebear mechanic. I’d love more control over pets currently, and I think that would go a long way. For someone to say all pet classes are non-competitive is just silly.

ilr.9675:

beren.6048:

In most MMOs pvp is the main part of the end game and PVE is to gear up.

That’s a complete Lie

Even in Guildwars1 which was intended from the start to focus on PvP, most of them never stuck around. …Most of them were ‘too high maintenance", demanded too much, or just plain left for the next newest PvP title to come along. Maybe the ones that stayed around played longer than the vast majority of casuals, RA’ers, FA/JQ’ers, and anyone else who didn’t quite qualify for GVG & TA … but they only made up a sliver of the actual players and accounts. The only popular MMO you can claim is all about PvP’ers, is Planetside b/c there’s literally nothing else aside from Turret farming that gives XP from the environment itself.

Good Point. In my experience, the players who favor PvE are more loyal to a franchise than the new PvP crowd. This is coming from a man who played DAoC and Warhammer Online Religiously over the past decade. Games that cater too heavily to the PvP crowd tend to do themselves in faster that anything I’ve seen. Depending too heavily on “Core Testers” is something that has been detrimental to the development process for far too long.

First and foremost, however, ArenaNet needs to sit don’t and re-evaluate which role each class was intended to serve. As of now, some classes serve no real role. That’s the problem I’d start with first.

This is the problem I have personally. If you have an intended role in mind that the Ranger should fill, please, for the love of all that is good, come out and say it. These patches of buckshot fixes make it painfully obvious that there is no one overriding role in which Devs see the Ranger filling. Most off-putting to me is the fact that is seems like every time I get comfortable with my weapon or build I’m forced to entirely reconsider my weapon of choice. What if I like the visceral feel of the shortbow with my current build, shall all uses of a weapon be hit just because it excels in some cases?

In the shortbow’s case, has anyone every really said, “hey that ranger is hitting me from too far away with that bow?” That’s where I have my problem. It seems like a nerf just for the sake of nerfing to make other weapons stand out. That is not the way you do things. If this is indeed the case, then I have to question the thought process of the Devs. YOU MEAN RANGERS FAVOR BOWS? THIS IS NEWS TO ME. BETTER NERF IT.

jcbroe.4329:

cuasilk.6927:

I can’t remember other notes with changes to pet damage but, were they listed in percentages? I find that kind os strange.

They always list damage improvements/reductions in percentages. What they haven’t ever done that I found odd was list changes to damage coefficients (meaning that there are some notes on the list where it says increased from 0.6 to 0.8 that looked odd).

Also, the use of the term aftercast in itself seemed odd as well, as normally, when the official notes are released, the term after cast normally gets referred to as “delay,” since “aftercast” isn’t really a well known term to most people.

It would definitely make more sense if these were internal testing notes as these would likely get passed over before final notes are introduced.

Meglobob.8620:

DON’T EVEN MENTION ASCENDED ITEMS TO ME…

I feels dat pain.