Can already just port to wvw and change my traits but why should I need to suffer through 4 load screens (say 4 because when I load wvw it loads twice for me for w/e reason). Something like what’s available in pvp would be awesome.
I have been mulling over this problem. Are you saying that while in dungeon one can port to WvW in close proximity to a trainer, purchase a respec, and then port back to the dungeon without ungrouping? Sorry if my questions appears to be ignorant, but I have never considered this previously. How long does this take? From your description, I would imagine this is driven largely by the load screen time.
So, my necromancer is level 30 and I’ve been trying to play him as a minion master. I have 10 points in spite and 10 in death magic, mainly use a staff, and have most of the summon skills on my bars.
I’m finding these pets to be rather frustrating and annoying, mainly because I have zero control over them. They’re squishy, and they seem to despawn randomly if I jump down a cliff or move too far away from them (sometimes they move slowly for some reason).
Is there a less pet-centric build I can use while I level, or is MM pretty much the way to go until 80?
If I were doing MM at that level, I’d respec to go 20 into Death so you can get Flesh of the Master so your minions have more health. I’d use Axe/Focus and Staff, and focus on giving regen to minions and vuln to targets, rather than trying to be the one doing the most damage.
That said, I personally prefer a Condition build, such as 20/30/0/15/5 or 10/30/0/20/10. At level 30, I’d probably be 5/10(II)/0/5/0 and use scepter/dagger and scepter/focus, or scepter/dagger and axe/focus. Skills would be Consume Conditions, BiP, Epidemic and Signet of the Locust.
Can you please link your builds or explain your trait allocation?
So now I am the flush-o-mancer? Can I get a minion that looks like the Tidy Bowl Man? Believe it or not, that would be an improvement over our current underwater options.
Is this still partially bugged, or did they neglect to tell us some good news?
OP, I would not let all the negativity dissuade you from playing the necro. Some of the comments are valid, but you have to play what feels right to you. GW2 is new and has many flaws/bugs that may not be resolved until the next expansion. Certain classes (e.g., warriors, thieves, guardians) are more polished than others (e.g., engineers). I do not feel that necros are unpolished or unfinished. Rather, some of their mechanics do not perform optimally in the game. Many would argue that necro traits lack synergy. I do not think this to be an issue. We are able to generate a variety of builds from power to condition to MM to DS. If you want to see bad trait lines, look at the ele fire and air lines. Minor traits that only provide a benefit when in attunement, a minor trait providing 10% run speed that is over-written by swiftness, etc.
The biggest problems that necros face are poor functionality of/support for DS, minion AI and survivability, the limit on condition stacking in groups, and poor mobility. Some of the problems with DS (e.g., UI for boons/conditions) are being looked at, and minion AI has been improved somewhat. I have found minions to perform fairly well in group settings as long as AoE is limited. In groups, necros are debuffers having the ability to spread conditions effectively in a typical conditionmancer or staff/well-based build or through the plague elite. Necros can also provide group healing through wells and transfusion, though not as good as some other professions.
In the end, you have to decide what you want to play. This game favors melee professions by virtue of the fact that all of the most polished professions are melee oriented. However, if you want to play a caster archetype, then the necro offers a lot of flexibility, very good survivability, a potential for good sustained damage, and a neat theme to boot.
I am a casual though thoughtful player. I have played ele, eng, thief, and necro. Of all these, the necro is the most fun for me. As Bhawb said, the necro is virtually indestructible in general PVE (i.e., soloing). Among the scholar professions, the necro fares surprisingly well in dungeons. The necro also has a number of reasonably effective builds available to it. This is quite different from the ele and eng.
The thief is great, though I am not sure what the proposed stealth changes will do to the profession in PVE. If you like casters and are interested in PVE, then I advocate the necro. If PvP is of interest, then the mesmer may be a better choice. I am less enthused about the ele due to limited build flexibility, spammy mechanics, and utter lack of health/defense.
In my experience, bone fiend is always the first to go down. He is an aggro magnet. Must have been an engineer in a past life.
Also, somewhere on the wiki it lists an attack speed of 1.86s for bone fiend and ~3.2s for other (melee) minions. I think they may have switched bone fiend and shadow fiend, or perhaps bone fiend is currently bugged.
At your level, with only 20 in two trees, putting that 20 in spite/death magic is best, and dropping a minion won’t be too big. However when you get 30 into Death magic (which you will when you are high enough), the extra utility that that one minion brings will far outweigh the little extra damage you can get from one utility.
Thanks for the feedback, Bhawb. Based on a limited spreadsheet-based simulation and empirical testing, I am inclined to believe that the extra minion will pull ahead of BiP over a 30s rotation (assuming it stays up). Obviously, a lot rides on the assumptions, including the abilities used in the rotation and their power coefficients. I assumed a priority system of axe 4 > 2 > 1 with abilities being used off CD. In reality, LB would also be used, though it is difficult to simulate due to the varying damage.
Also, based on my testing, shadow fiend was hitting every ~2s, whereas bone fiend hit every ~3s and for less overall damage (including the fact that bone fiend appears to have a higher crit rate). This observation is inconsistent with the tool tip.
(edited by Moonrabbit.1543)
forgive me for giving you more critiques on this build then you probably wanted,i tend to do that more than i’d like,but your question is answered in the beginning:
Shadow Fiend over BiP definitly
you are using power,which doesn’t benifit from 10 seconds of 10 stacks of might as much as bleeding would,especially since you aren’t using Dagger/???
Axe is a little low on damage imo,a little bit of might for a few attacks doesn’t seem worth it in most situations
but also,you want the other added procs to your traits based on a minion master build
and Bone Minions would probably be better than Flesh Wurm in a normal situation because of this,aswell,summoning 2 instead of 1,for the traits
reasoning is because:
in general,
if you’re going to go with a Minion Master build
you would want to go with all of the traits for a Minion Master
20/0/(30 or 20)/(20 or 30)/0this game is supposed to implement alot of Hybrid ideas,but to be honest,it just doesn’t work that way,not yet,anyway,if it’s to be fixed
Minion damage isn’t really why you would want them,but 30% more on them does help
meat shields is a main reason,and the Vampiric Trait which now works with Bloodthirst is another reason you would want them,since it makes Blood Fiend very useful,at somewhere like 1.5k heal every 2seconds from that one minion alone
you want the other minions to give you Fetid Consumption or Death Nova (which is subpar in effect compared to the effectiveness of Fetid Consumption to a group effort)
Minions are just little things you can summon and forget about,while also being able to use their active abilities for a minor boost to a situation,never forget that you will always have to be actively playing,because your minions won’t carry your weight like they did in Original…(sad)
so you may want to rethink going Dagger/??? over Staff or Axe,because Dagger benifits stronger from Vampiric trait (15 blood) because of faster attacks,and more damage in general than Axe,being up-close in a fight is also not much of a problem for this because of all the healing done,Staff is generally not too good compared to Axe with power,aswell
Alpha, thanks for the prompt reply. I am only level 50 and have but 40 trait points to allocate. I was considering moving 20 points from blood magic to spite to increase damage. Thus, the comments about health siphon traits are not directly relevant to my situation.
Axe provides greater range than dagger. In my limited experience, this is vital in dungeons. It also stacks vulnerability, which benefits minions and party members.
Using the stated build at my level, I believe the only trait that scales with the number of minions is protection of the horde (20 toughness/minion).
Each minion provides some degree of utility in addition to absorbing and increasing overall damage. The question was, if I move 20 points from blood magic to spite to increase personal and minion damage and allow for might stacking, then would it be worth sacrificing one minion to increase overall damage. Based on crude experiments I performed today, I believe it would be close and largely depend on the power coefficients of the abilities being used.
I have been using an MM build in dungeons and general PVE. Last week, I hit level 50 and now want to reallocate traits from blood magic to spite to facilitate might stacking and increase personal damage. I am questioning whether I should add blood is power at the cost of a low dps minion (i.e., shadow fiend).
Formulating a comparison of damage with BiP vs. damage with shadowfiend is problematic because damage varies with armor. I am going to evaluate the two options on a veteran mob (presuming vet armor is relevant to the armor of the average dungeon mob). However, I would appreciate it if someone could provide me their thoughts on the relative value of BiP vs. shadow fiend for overall (combined personal/minion) damage.
For referance, I am looking at the following build:
20 (VI, IX) / 0 / 20 (III, X) / 0 / 0
Primary: axe/focus
Secondary: staff
Gear: all vigorous (P/V)
Runes: 3 fire/ 3 strength
Sigils: bloodlust/peril (battle on second focus); bloodlust (battle on second staff)
Utilities: blood fiend, bone fiend, flesh wurm, blood is power (shadow fiend), flesh golem
…..
I am now lvl 50 ankittenhinking of changing my traits to 20 (XI, IX)/0/20 (III, X), 0/0. Transfusion is nice, but the range is very limited. In ranged battles where I am forced to use staff instead of axe/focus, I am only able to rely on mark of blood to keep up my minions. Overall, I think might stacking, and especially the 30% increased minion damage, would be more useful.
How do you get XI, which is axe training while only having 20 points investet? Or did you mean VI which is Reaper’s might?
@ Bhawb – any chance you can post a link to your PVE build, I would be really interested.
Sorry… yes, reaper’s might (VI) in spite.
I played with the numbers a bit yesterday and am considering vigorous (P/V) gear with might duration runes and battle sigils. I do not like the idea of swithing back and forth between axe and staff just to proc might. However, it may work if a rhythm can be established: switch to staff, lay marks, auto-attack to build LF as needed, switch to axe, enter DS and use LB to stack might, exit DS and attack with axe, repeat. Not sure if the damage gain from might stacking would be offset by damage loss during staff phase. I am currently traveling and will not be able to evaluate the effectiveness of this set-up until the weekend.
Well, I am falling more and more in love with MM in dungeons! Ran CM exp last night using the build (with adjustments) described previously. Did very well. Interestingly, ran with another MM necro.
I am now lvl 50 ankittenhinking of changing my traits to 20 (XI, IX)/0/20 (III, X), 0/0. Transfusion is nice, but the range is very limited. In ranged battles where I am forced to use staff instead of axe/focus, I am only able to rely on mark of blood to keep up my minions. Overall, I think might stacking, and especially the 30% increased minion damage, would be more useful.
Along with the trait change, I am thinking of altering the stats on my gear. I have been running 100% hearty (T/V) gear. If I trait into Spite to increase personal damage, then it would make sense to invest in power. The easiest thing would be to gear P/V since I would be maintaining my investment in death magic and losing points in blood magic. However, mixing gear (e.g., berzerker with P/V) would also be possible. I have not done the napkin math to see how best to optimize by matching stats to gear slots. Any suggestions regarding gear/runes (assuming the traits described above) would be welcomed.
Bhawb, as always, thank you. You and Bas deserve a great deal of credit for your advocacy of the MM build.
However, I feel like weak Minions should be raisable by using weapon skills not utility. Therefor I would move Bone Minions to weapon skills, and introduce stronger and better looking ‘’Bone Horrors’’ a la GW1 style to utility slot. They should hit harder, but slower and be able to hit 3 targets at a time.
This is a very insightful point. MM builds have limited access to AoE damage and are punished heavily by opponent/mob AoE. I would like to see an AoE-oriented minion (e.g., mini plague) or at least one specializing in cleave damage. I would also like to see a trait that would help minions withstand AoE attacks better.
Well, I tweaked the build a bit, and it performed fairly well… better than staff support. I moved away from life siphon, which seemed to provide too small of a benefit for the investment, to T/V on all gear and food. Ave/focus with peril/bloodlust and staff secondary with bloodlust. Runes were a mix of dolyak (4) and soldier (2). Via mark of blood and transfusion, I was able to keep the minions up much of the time. Support to group was provided through vulnerability stacking, staff marks, and damage/aggro provided by minions.
One complaint I have is that I felt I had to keep locust signet on bar to provide adequate mobility, which precluded me from running full minion build. Also, I suspect that my overall damage was no match for that of the other PUG members, which were mostly warriors, guardians, and an occasional mesmer or elementalist. I could change some of my gear (accessories, runes, sigils) to power; however, I am not sure the benefit of doing so with respect to my personal damage would offset the cost in terms of survivability. I suppose when I hit 50, I could switch out of transfusion to reaper’s might (or +20% focus recharge) and training of the master.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I realized that there is plenty of fine gear available on TP with V/T. While I was hoping for rare or MC (fine is a downgrade), the stats are integral to creating a tanky build that will sit back and siphon or lay on vulnerability while the minions do the work. Hope to test it in AC tonight. We’ll see if it works or fails (or I just suck at playing this game).
Bhawb, I did not see where the guide recommened sigils. I elected to put peril and leeching on axe/focus and force/leeching on dagger/dagger. I believe the CD on leeching should coincide with the CD on weapon swap. I do not feel I have any better options for mainhand dagger since my crit is <10%. I think off-hand dagger is a must at my level for condition removal since I do not have the trait allowing minions to remove conditions.
Thanks for the reply, Bhawb. Any thoughts regarding the armor? Is there a source for armor with P/T, P/V, or T/V at my level, or would it be worthwhile to consider using level 35 gear (for which I believe more itemization options exist)?
Hello all, I have been running dungeons with my necro who currently stands at level 45. I have tried conditionmancer and staff well bomber but seem to take an excessive number of dirt naps. In general PVE, I run MM. Last night, I came across a post describing a bunker build focused on minions:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/81133-bunkerheal-necromancer-build-very-effective/
I would appreciate others’ thoughts regarding the build and suggestions for tweaks to improve survivability.
Given my level, I am having some trouble tailoring the build to my necro. Specifically, I can find no level-appropriate gear with power/toughness, power/vitality, or vitality/toughness in the TP. Does gear with these stats exist at level 45? If so, then from where can it be obtained?
Thanks or your help!
I came back to the necro after becoming a bit bored with my thief and reading some intriguing posts from Lopez. After fooling around in PVE with conditions, I moved to MM and have not looked back since. MM is the most fun I have had in this game. Watching my 6 minions lay waste to some poor mob while I stand back laying on conditions and CC is good times. The only issue is that the spec is very susceptible to AE and is weak when minions are down. Having control over minions (offensive vs. defensive stance, follow) would compensate for this to some degree.
I never see the damage from terror appear in the log. All I see is the trivial damage amounts associated with doom and reaper’s mark. Is terror bugged, or am I missing something?
Also, I understand that terror is supposed to do one tick of damage per second. If the fear lasts 1.25 seconds, then is the target hit for 2 ticks?
Terror isn’t worth running. Even with the 1k damage, it doesn’t do enough compared to just applying bleeds. Its fun to try out every once in a while, but I wouldn’t suggest using it as a primary means of damage. Especially seeing as you are most likely only going to have access to 2 fear skills with a 1 second duration at any given time. You can modify it with runes in order to get close to 2 seconds, but you both have to have 50% from the soul reaping trait and mods from your gear to get that close. There is the option of putting 30 in spite to get the full 2 seconds out of it but then you sacrifice condition damage in the process because you need 20 in soul reaping as well.
Fear is best used as a interrupt…
This was my thought, as well. However, Lopez, who has written several guides on the conditionmancer, claims terror is higher dps than master of corruption.
Lopez,
Excellent guide!
For your PVE build, you indicate that the trait Terror is superior dps to Master of Corruption. I find this surprising given that the primary means of applying fear, Reaper’s Mark and Doom, come from staff and Death Shroud, respectively, which according to your guide are not used much of the time. Master of Corruption would benefit the three corruption utilities (Blood is Power, Epidemic, Corrosive Poison Cloud) that you claim to use frequently. Can you please explain the logic supporting Terror over Master of Corruption? Thank you.
I am interested in creating a warrior alt for solo/group/dungeon PVE. Can anyone suggest a good damage-oriented build (GC included)? Suggestions for sigils and runes would also be appreciated.
I have seen a GS build that focuses on maximizing boon up-time but am not sure this is the “best” PVE build for damage. See:
Surprisingly, the build does not incorporate any grandmaster traits. I have also heard of dual axe and “5 signet GS” builds. Supposedly, dual axe beats GS, though I have not seen the actual trait set-up, while signet-heavy builds dominate in lower-level PVE but fall behind at higher levels due to poor scaling.
Any help is greatly appreciated since I am a novice when it comes to the ways of the warrior.
Finally the “lack of damage” argument is faulty on two fronts. First, you just can’t compare melee of any kind in this game to ranged. They simply won’t be on par, the game is overtuned for melee.
This is so true! I have been playing GW2 since beta. I love the combat. As a casual player, I find that soloing is much more engaging than in WoW or other MMOs. There is much more to do. However, my chief complaint with the game relates to the lack of balance with respect to professions’ damage capabilities. Melee professions, and in particular warriors and thieves, are superior to all others when it comes to damage.
I started the game with an elementalist, toyed briefly with a necromancer, switched to an engineer and took him quite a ways until the massive grenade nerf, and finally settled on a thief. I enjoy playing the thief. The weapons complement one another, and I feel that I am more capable of outputting competitive damage. However, I would prefer to be playing a ranged (caster) profession. I never play rogue archetypes in other games and feel that GW2 has forced me to do so in order to obtain the experience to which I am accustomed.
One can argue that the status quo exists because warriors and thieves cannot provide the utility of elementalists, engineers, and others. However, I did not sign up to play a predominantly support role. In fact, it was my understanding that the holy trinity was to be abolished and that each profession would be capable of filling each role. Clearly, they are not equal in their ability to do so.
On a positive note, I would point out that a LH elementalist can come close to approximating the experience with the thief. However, conjured weapons have numerous problems (not usable under water, 20-point fire investment, poor trait synergy/support) that make the build little more than a gimmick.
So weapon stats apply to kits, and kit damage scales to some extent. However, attack with kit (grenades) is lower than with weapon(s). Has anyone calculated the expected gain in damage with grenades post patch? Based on what I see, the impact appears to be limited.
Go with S/D build. P/P or SB as your second.
Can you post a link to build?
25/30/0/15/0 or 25/30/15/0/0
Deadly Arts: III/IX
Critical Strikes: (I or III)/X/XIUtilities: Haste, Assasins Signet, Signet of Shadows, Basalisk Venom
Attack Sequence: While un-stealthed -> Assassins Signet + Basilisk Venom -> Steal (Mug) -> Cloak and Dagger -> Backstab + Haste -> Spam Heartseaker
Thanks for the build! Given this information, I have tried D/D on the NPCs in the mists, but I have not had as much success as with S/P. S/P has more mobility, and I seem to run out of initiative after a few heart seekers without killing the NPC.
I am also trying to work out whether sword auto attack or pistol whip is better damage. I was using PW, but have read some posts saying that it took a 15% damage nerf and is actually less damage than sword auto attack. If this is the case, then is there a better off-hand than pistol? If no, and I stick with S/P, then what can I take as a major master trait in DA other than combined training?
I am creating a new sylvari and need help/suggestions with respect to the character’s glow. I want to use the violet night (blue and purple) skin tone. Which glow do you think looks best with this skin tone? I have considered dusk, dusky, and streamlet but would appreciate any suggestions.
Hi, I am testing the waters with the thief and am looking for a burst damage build for PVE. I have been trying a pistol whip build in the mists and have been amazed at how effective it is 1v1. However, I have read that a lot of folks play a backstab d/d build for burst. I would appreciate it if someone should share their build. If there is a glass cannon variant, I’d also like to see it since, from the damage output I’ve seen, I suspect a thief could be pretty glassy and still survive. Thanks.
Excellent summary, and I like your proposed solutions. However, I fear that ANet sees the engineer as the low-damage support profession of GW2. I suspect that engineers will be getting portals in the next or subsequent update… along with a chef’s hat and apron. Get ready to hear calls for cream of wheat and other inappropriately advertized breakfast foodstuffs from your group members.
I cannot fathom why ANet is targeting AoE and, by virtue of this, the elementalist and engineer, which are underpowered in PVE. I hope that they restrict their nerfs to PvP, though I suspect that the changes will affect all areas of game play. Why is it that they keep implementing dramatic nerfs for caster classes in this game? I do not want to play a warrior, guardian, or thief, yet these are apparently ANet’s favored professions. Are they not aware of the capabilities of a thief relative to an elementalist (let alone an engineer)? Why am I being incentivized to play classes that I never want to play in any MMO?
(edited by Moonrabbit.1543)
Utilities
Signet of restoration is chosen presuming that the heal upon cast works with conjured weapons (I have not been able to confirm this) and that extra healing is needed. As an alternate healing utility, GoEH would provide additional boon uptime and, therefore, a boost to damage.
There is room for two cantrips. I have selected lightning flash to provide some mobility and cleansing fire for condition removal. Both have a shorter CD than armor of earth.
For the elite, I would choose glyph of elementals presuming that 100% hammer uptime could be maintained. If not, then I might consider slotting the fiery greatsword.
Tactics
For a casual player such as me, this build provides better damage than D/D for less effort. One would initiate combat with H2, hit H5 for the lightning field, swap attunement to proc fury, and then start spamming H1 while swapping attunement as needed to maintain fury uptime. I would be inclined to also load boons by activating the two cantrips (at least lightning flash) prior to combat. Dodge and use second hammer as needed.
Weaknesses
The build has certain obvious weaknesses. First, it cannot be used under water. Second, it is inherently more selfish than D/D as it does not utilize auras or powerful aura. The suggested build also lacks evasive arcana, which provides a solid heal.
Notes
This is meant to be a PVE build. I have tested the build against the popular 0/10/0/30/30 D/D build and have found it to do consistently more damage in a shorter period of time than the former. However, comparisons based on target dummy data are imperfect since they do not account for ability to mitigate incoming damage or mobility. D/D has greater mobility, though the suggested build is not bereft of tools to get into/out of melee range and maintain swiftness. Finally, there is a bug such that the second conjured weapon does not provide stat bonuses. Damage would be reduced when switching to the second conjured hammer. Hopefully, this bug will be fixed soon.
Well, that’s my build. I would be interested in your thoughts and suggestions. Suggestions for accessories would be greatly appreciated.
Following the Massive Grenade Nerf of 2012, I felt inclined to set aside my engineer and revisit my elementalist. I have studied the popular D/D build, though I want to play something a bit more damage oriented and that overcomes the range liability of D/D. Accordingly, I have developed a conjured weapon—i.e., lightning hammer—build for PVE that provides some advantages over D/D, most notably:
1. Better burst damage and sustained damage as long as hammer charges hold out
2. Spammable AoE blind and blast finisher
3. The ability to switch to staff (or S/D) immediately if ranged attacks are called for
4. The ability to provide support (healing) through staff
The build is available at:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhMmmbxRAhjDAUGn4SQhCDUZMzOA;TUAquMeJ8y11QEA
(copy and paste the link into your address bar if activating it does not work)
The build provides numerous boons with high up time. These are activated through cantrips, attunement swapping, and the blast combo provided by the hammer. Runes and sigil are selected to support boon uptime. The build does not provide the same healing as D/D with 30 in water, but with the AoE blind, the elementalist may actually be hit less so that the need for healing is reduced.
Mainhand Weapon
Staff is chosen to provide immediate access to a ranged weapon in case transition from melee to ranged is needed. S/D would be another possibility. I am uncertain whether the sigil on the offhand dagger would apply to the conjured weapon (see my comments regarding sigils below). Also, I believe that the selected traits would fit a support staff role better than S/D.
Sigil(s)
Testing suggests that the elementalist’s mainhand weapon sigil applies to conjured weapons. Sigil of battle provides 3 stacks of might on attunement swap while wielding the conjured weapon, though there is a 10s CD. If the mainhand weapon set was S/D and the offhand sigil also applied to the conjured weapon, then sigil of force would be a suitable choice for the offhand weapon.
It would make sense to carry a second staff with sigil of bloodlust to stack power and switch out for the staff with sigil of battle upon reaching 25 stacks.
Runes
Selected to bolster boon uptime. 2x superior monk, 2x superior water, and probably 2x major monk or water (the last does not appear in linked build).
Traits
F4, W3, and W9 are taken to support the use of cantrips for boon activation.
A5 provides an attunement-specific boon on attunement swapping.
Bountiful power in the water line is taken to translate boons into a percent damage increase. Soloing, I am able to keep 5-6 boons up constantly, which translates into a 10-12% increase in damage regardless of attunement.
Arcane fury allows the elementalist to keep fury up nearly 100% of the time assuming attunement is swapped at the end of fury duration. With boon duration food, 100% fury uptime could likely be maintained with ease.
A8 is taken to support staff use when needed.
F8 is taken to provide extra hammer charges.
When soloing, I imagine that one could get along without F8. This could allow one to put 10 points into air for A6 (bolt to the heart) or to pick up W6 (vital striking) or W11 (cleansing water) and A11 (evasive arcana). Given that the hammer forces one to be in melee range to use its most devastating attacks, I doubt one could stay above 90% health for a prolonged period of time, which calls into the question the value of W6. Evasive arcana would provide an excellent heal every 10s and solid damage through churning earth. I have found the blast finisher on the latter to be difficult to use effectively. Taking an arcane grandmaster trait would also enhance boon uptime by an additional 5%.
I have not tested the build in an instance. However, in dungeons or when fighting champions, I suspect that one would run out of charges well before the hammer’s 60s CD had expired. This could be problematic if wielding a staff since the staff’s damage is less impressive. When grouping or fighting champions, I believe that taking F8 would be a necessary evil.
Arcane precision is not that useful. However, the additional 5% boon uptime is. One could conceivably put the 5 points into water for W6 or W11.
Interesting debate. I believe that staying in one attunement (e.g., fire) provides less partywide damage than attunement switching. However, it would be interesting to test the hypothesis that attunement switching provides greater personal direct damage over a fixed period of time than staying in fire. For this specific case, I think fire (particularly for S/D or D/D) could do better. However, this ignores the effects of damage buffs provided for other party members as well as condition damage.
Elementalist already come with 24 different abilities with each weapon kit. 5 × 4 for the weapons and 3 utility. Giving them the ability to weapon swap and gain another 20 abilities seems a bit much.
The way I combat the lack of range and melee versatility is to keep a conjured weapon in my utility list. If I have a D/D build going, I’m going to have an Ice Arrow ready. If it’s a Staff build then I’m going to keep Electric Hammer.
That’s what the conjured weapons are for. Their damage is not as high as the primary weapons but you do get to some emergency variety of ability when the calls for it.
Also to fix the problem of the conjured weapon running out too fast is simple. Use about 4 or 5 skills of the weapon then run over and pickup your other weapon on the ground and continue another 5 or 6 abilities. By time you use both weapons your cooldown will almost be up.
Is this really true? I have seen numerous posts espousing the use of the lightning hammer for damage. Someone recently posted weapon coefficients showing the auto-attack of the hammer to be greater than the auto-attacks of elementalists’ other weapons. I believe that conjures now provide stats comparable to equipped weapons and that the sigil on the elementalist’s primary equipped weapon applies to any conjured weapon. (I tested the latter last night.)
OP, I was thinking about this issue the other day. I have seen some good posts from theorycrafters, including Casia and others, providing average damage estimates for grenades, rifle, pistols, and FT. However, I have never seen other professions mathed head-to-head against the engineer. Regrettably, I believe that no one has yet developed a dps simulator for GW2.
@Crunchy
I hope so. I am aware that sigils now apply to engineer kits. Also, from what I have read, stacks formed by a stacking sigil prior (e.g., bloodlust) to equipping a conjured weapon are maintained. However, I could not find a post, dev or otherwise, indicating that sigils work (or will work) while a conjured weapon is equipped. I think this, and allowing elementalists to shift back and forth between the conjured weapon and existing weapon set (e.g., staff, D/D), would go a long way to solving players’ reticence toward using conjures.
Wow! I came up with the same trait set-up for a hammer-focused build earlier today. I would think this build, combined with the staff, would be a great way to overcome the range limitation attributable to being unable to swap weapons in combat.
Question: I understand that weapon swap sigils work on attunement change. If I equip a conjured weapon, then would a weapon swap sigil (e.g., sigil of battle) still proc if I change attunments (i.e., while the conjured weapon is equipped)?
Thanks for the prompt response. Engineer grenade builds do (did…) most of their damage by punching auto attack and grenage barage when up. The nerf to G1 (auto attack) was compensated to a small degree by spreading damage to other grenades. However, most of the damage still comes from G1. At least elementalists can claim to have some semblance of a rotation.
S/D or D/D are my preferred weapon sets due to greater mobility and shorter CDs than staff. However, if the best way to trait for damage is currently staff, then I would buy it.
My first character was an elementalist. I took him to lvl 20 or so before becoming frustrated with the low health and long CDs.
I have always played casters, but subsequently decided to give the engineer a try. I was surprised to find that the engineer had everything I was looking for and leveled my engineer to the mid-50’s using a GC grenade/elixir build before embarking on a number of trips this month.
Needless to say, I was highly disappointed to see the massive nerf to grenades on 12/14. GC grenade/elixir was one of only a few functional builds available to engineers. I do not believe sigils or the trivial buff to HGH compensate for the nerf to G1 and do not feel like spamming even more keys to do the same damage I was doing before.
Given the slow implementation of profession changes in this game, and the buffs received by elementalists in the last two updates, I am thinking of revisiting my elementalist. Previously, I was running D/D. I have read daphoenix’s guide on D/D but am uncomfortable putting so many points into water and, to a lesser degree, arcane. For PVE (solo, dungeons), can anyone suggest a D/D or S/D build that traits mainly for damage? I used to see people trait Fire/Earth/Arcane (e.g., 30/20/20) for D/D. Is this still viable, especially with the buff to Pyromancer’s Puissance? Am I wrong in thinking that it may be easiest to spec GC as staff (assuming I group)?
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
EngineerThe Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.
Engineers are known as the king of crowd control and excels in versatile and boon if built for it.
I believe that few people want to play a buff-bot. I certainly did not sign up to play a buff-bot when I created my engineer. If the developers wanted to move the profession in that direction, then they should have initiated a forum discussion with the existing engineers beforehand (similar to the Post from Charles CC in the thief forum about the playstle (“OPness”) of thieves). Further, I was led to believe that GW2 did away with traditional roles and that each profession would be capable of tanking, healing, or damage. The profession philosophy post suggests that we are to be less-than-equal in the damage department, which goes against the stated design philosophy for the game.
So, was Casia or anyone else able to discern whether or not GB was stealth nerfed?
That sir, made my day. If you watch closely, Grenade #4 and #5 now have damage, so the whole point of nerfing #1 is that you’d actually need to do something else than spam #1 at 1500 while watching porn. I feel sorry for you that Anet now demands of you to use a little bit a skill to make your engineer viable. That and added sigil procing with kits.
QQing because you can’t spam your #1 is just plain hilarious, people like you make me laugh.
I was not saying that spamming G1 is an acceptable rotation, only that spamming one ability is preferable to spamming that ability in addition to utilizing a few other abilities in an arbitrary way to maximize damage.
As noted, grenades, with grenadier is still the highest damage.
24stacks of vul via steel packed will ensure this for some time still.
Empowering adren is stronger then shrapnel trait still.
The improved shrapnel trait is nice. However, with grenades an sharpnel grenade, you are pushing 24stacks of bleeds by yourself very likely. Meaning if you play with anyone else, you probably are capping out bleeds.
5% damage maintained simply by dodging periodically, which you probably do anyway, is definitely stronger.The variance is smaller now though.
Rifle/discharge is fun and strong as well.
So, we are still traiting as before the nerf. This is why the 30% reduction to G1 is so disheartening to me. The buff to HGH was trivial. Now we not only spam G1 and GB but also throw other grenades in order to maximize damage. I would rather spam one key than spam that key and monitor CDs on other grenades (in addition to monitoring CDs on elixirs). The nerf not only affected our damage in PVE but also had a deleterious effect on our playstyle, in my opinion.
Casia, have you ever considered setting up a website with current information for optimizing the engineer in PVE/PVP?
Also, happy holidays to all.
A truely versatile engineer, making use of that benefit of instant kit swapping, uses at least 2 kits.
Sometimes even 3.You can’t trait for that, you always lose.
That’s the pice we ALREADY pay for being versatile: we can’t specify deep into one purpose if using 2 or 3 kits…
What are the most effective and popular engineer builds?
Are that the most versatile ones?
No: it’s the most specified and least versatile builds that are the most popular.To do great damage as engineer, you need to sacrifice all versatility.
Grenadier build, being our only realy great ranged option.
Everything else is less good at range. Well, nothing even has the same range… a flaw by design to start with.- Rifle precision-power build.
Hard hitting but not versatile by a long shot.- Juggernaut FT build sacrificing everything just to make the flamethrower better than ‘decent’.
- Tankcat build focusing all on survival with confusion or pure power, not doing much beyond surviving and meleeing.
- P/P condition does just that: run around and apply conditions.
All these examples of builds are like what other professions do, without them paying any price.
And most of the time it are weaker copies of other professions builds to start with.I want the dev’s to show me versatile engineers builds that deserve damage nerfs. There aren’t any.
Basically they let us pay a price for having acces to different NON-VERSATILE builds that do good damage.
But they argue we have some builds that are versatile by themselves and still would have potential OP damage.
This is a major difference!Engineers have been paying the price for versatility by design.
We don’t deserve to have our mediocre damage nerfed for it as well.note: I run with 2 or 3 kits normally.
I’m bloody versatile… but I’m also bloody weak in terms of raw damage just because I can’t trait for 3 kits to work to their full potential.
When the devs say my damage could be a potential OP issue, I can’t do anything but laugh at that statement.
This hits the nail on the head. The most effective engineer builds are not versatile at all. I have no problem with that. I would prefer to be specialized and do top-tier damage than be designed to swap rapidly among kits but be incapable of doing anything well. The developer’s statement that we are designed to have poor mainhand weapon damage was indefensible. Few people want to play a buffbot. If that is what the engineer is to be, then let us know so that we can delete and reroll (or jump ship to another MMO).
“The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”
This statement is ignorant. I cannot believe that the game developers thought they could conclude that “engineers are versatile but do less damage” without disenfranchizing and upsetting a large portion of their remaining engineer player base. The 30% nerf to grenades was not justified. The profession was certainly not more powerful than any other profession and is now effectively gimped. The only thing the nerf accomplished was to wreck the one kit that allowed engineers to execute competitive damage. Interestingly, the developers’ apparent decision to market the engineer as a support class lies in direct opposition to their stated objective of making each profession capable of fulfilling the tanking, healing, and damage roles.
If no positive changes are made to the engineer by Wednesday, then I will be done with this game. Of course, there will be no immediate changes because the developers do not have adequate resources to implement balance fixes in a timely fashion (as has become apparent since the beta). Thus, it is with great sadness that I will bid adieu to my engineer and what was an enjoyable pastime.
Fixing Elixir C looks like a fairly nice bug fix to me. Definition of “major” being a little murky.
Goes along well with all the 11/15 Harpoon fixes, I guess.
Notes for 12/3 include no engineer nerfs, though there are no major bug fixes either.
I am looking for a guild for my level 52 sylvari engineer on the Gate of Madness server. The character is well geared and is a max level huntsman/leatherworker/jeweler. I have been focusing on casual PVE (DEs, storyline quests) and would like to start doing some dungeon crawling. I live in the Midwest and am usually online after 8PM CST and at various times on the weekends. I hope to find a group of casual but organized and friendly adults who like to support each other to achieve common ends and sponsor fun events. If this sounds like you, then please give me a shout back. Thanks!