Guild Wars 2

ensoriki.5789:

Lol just wait for this patch.
Brb mug nerf.
brb more dagger buffs
bet they nerf pistol
prob nerf shortbow
hell prob nerf Sword.
Prob nerf venom share.
Wait on 30th to scratch my bingo card. But I think everyone but the thief will be seeing good things.

Mug nerfed for sure.

lol if they don’t buff the thief ( after OPENLY saying they need buff in high tier pvp) then it’s time to seriously reroll eles

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thieves are really not bad at all still. There is a reason alot of teams have thieves and it is because they are good. Warrior has disapeared and necro is seen very little. They are the classes which need help – warrior mainly.

This is not about them being bad, it’s about other classes being better.

War was “fine” pre haste nerf, but a thief was still better than a war ( unless in rare sinergy situations like time warp + war ).

A thief can’t hold his own in a 1vs1, a thief can be totally neglected by a single timed ress, a thief can’t contest a point for too long in order to wait for back up. etc. etc.

An ele roamer can dish out the same burst of a thief, while offering a lot more.

I know it’s more regarding eles being too good, but they’re not the only one.

Engies, eles, guards can all do thief role , and as long as you have 2 or more eles in your team ( so you’re covered regarding mobility issues) you can easily avoid the thief and having a much more performing group.

Overall, it’s better to have another ele, or a mesmer, than a thief.

Chaith.8256:

They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility.

This kind of feedback can only mean one thing. You’re one of those Thief players in hotjoin that are always on the tunnel vision target’s heels spamming 1111111111 in the air, and get flanked by everyone.

It’s a playstyle issue. Once you discover the magic of Shortbows, you’ll never have a complaint about sustained damage, staying power, or mobility again, I promise.

Sustaining pressure on people:

• Between Trick Shot, Choking Gas, and an occasional Cluster Bomb, your sustained pressure on a point is really high, and extremely easy to do. Auto-attack is easily 50% of your pressure, depending on how much initiative you want to put into cluster bombs. Shortbow is still effective in 1v1’s to dish fair damage while not risking yourself, until the opportunity for a dagger combo arises. Thief Shortbow is one of the best weapons, period. Maximize it!

• Problems with staying power is all in the positioning, & disabiling shot & Shadowstep usage. Convert initiative into evades & cripples when the situation demands, while you lay low for a second or reposition.

• Bad mobility. You can slot signet of shadows, which I personally don’t recommend, or you can press Shortbow 5 more often. I’ll remind you that when you’re escaping, a vertical teleport can put you 5-15 seconds ahead of your pursuers, depending on terrain. You can’t even put a price on this in Temple of the Silent Storm or Khylo maps.

Hope this helps you overcome your problems with sustained pressure, staying power, & mobility.

it’s really not the point.

Altough i agree with you regarding all you said, the thief sacrifices too much while having too little.

The thief has really no acces to swiftness unless you play an acro thief ( not a good choice, since you would sacrifice a good portion of damage) and has less mobility than an ele.

Moreover thief sustain is based on shortbow ( range) since you’re too squishy to stay on a point.
You can’t go 1vs1 alone otherwise you’re going to lose against any capable opponent unless you totally outplay him.

A valk ele built for dps ( double arcane), no matters if is D/D or S/D ( D/D is more AoE, S/D is better for 1vs1 and for bunkering) has currently the same burst of a thief ( especially D/D) while being AoE, while having more mobility, while giving more support via boons, heals and condi removals, while having more sustained power ON a point ( being able to contest it and even keep it for a while unless it’s mid, where chaos rules supreme) and while having one of the best elites in game ( water ele) when fighting in small skirmishes ( 1vs1, 1vs2 or 2vs2).

I know it’s more about the ele being god mode ( devs already said eles are doing thief roles and even better than them), but it’s also due to the fact the thief needs to go full glass in order to achieve good damage, something that is not necessarily true for other classes ( HGH power nades, HGH condi nades, valk eles, trap rangers, DPS guards).

Don’t misunderstand me, a thief can still oneshot almost any dps class as long as they have no stunbreak available ( a thief is an asset regarding this), but the thief is also the only class which can be totally annhilated by good communication ( just have a good team spotting the thief and always saying where it is), is the class most easily shut down and overall offers very little aside that burst, even more after haste nerf ( not only for the combo, but also for that trait giving 3 secs haste which gave a nice burst damage even while autoattacking).

Basically, thief squishiness is not correctly trade off with its damage: there are better choices.

And that’s why the thief is still playable, but not optimal anymore.

Basically like war was pre haste nerf.

i also want to add something else:

custom arenase won’t solve GW2 issues: game modes are not interesting enough.

You have your standard conquest map with secondary objectives ( be them the treb, NPCs killing or the orb), nothing really new.

Map/ objectives depth is very tiny, strategies are very simple due to the great semplification of the format and can be easily summarized into :

1. Bunker a point ( wait for back up)
2. Chaotic mid fight
3. Outnumbering
4. Fast roaming ( back up)

Class diversity is focused around these very simple tasks, and really the deepest tactic you’ll ever find is a trap ranger putting traps on the treb/close or a mesmer porting back with its portal.

Basically, the game is too simple, altough with a steep learning curve due to its combat system.

This is what should be addressed, along with professions balance ( in some case a total rework is needed) in order to do accomplish it.

Who could ever disagree ?

Atherakhia.4086:

Well it would seem ANet agrees with the OP moreso than the people claiming thieves are fine because Thief and Warrior are the only 2 classes repeatedly brought up when talking about boon hate.

Even when bunkered, they aren’t comparable to other bunkers. Their damage while bunkered isn’t comparable to other true DPS classes. The utility the class offers is quite limited. They don’t compliment other classes well or provide much to the individual roles in s/tPVP.

But I’m new and I hope to grow into the class over the next couple weeks/month and hope my opinion changes. But for right now I def see where the OP is coming from.

in fact, in my thread ( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Are-you-going-to-do-something-about-thieves/first) jon clearly said thieves are weak in high tier PvP and need help, with a good look at other game’s areas ( since thieves are very good in WvW but also weak in PvE) .

No matters what “pros” say, thieves are obviously weak, even D/P burst, and an ele can do thief role way better than a thief.

If there’re thieves on top it’s for very simple reasons:

1. your teammates are carrying you, since a thief can shine only when his teammates know what they’re doing and do it well.

2. your skill is way superior than your opponent’s

3. your team skill ( coordination, sinergy and stuff) is way superior than your opponent’s

Period.

daydream.2938:

Thiefs are viable, in fact some of the top players on leaderboards are thiefs. But they are not disproportionally represented. In fact a little under represented.

Thiefs are probably a little on the weak side, but only a tad, I think the main thief spec. (assassins signet backstab) is not in need of a buff. they just need more ways to play.

i wouldn’t be sure about it.

i will never be tired of saying it, but currently DPS eles are way better than thieves.
with valk amulet S/D eles can burst istantly (even while dodging) and D/D eles have ridicolous sustain and burst. ( more than 10k damage, AOE).

And no, thieves do not have better mobility than eles, absolutely.

Morover, eles can keep a point 1vs1 for quite some time ( usually winning) while a thief has no chance to win a 1vs1 unless he outplays his opponent while an ele can simply faceroll his keyboard and survive long enough.

Thieves are more than weak: they’re just a step above warriors. They’re playable, but not optimal.

And do not take leaderaboards too seriously: the only 2 thieves in the first page ( kultas and lowell) have played little to nothing ( especially team curse) and they’re sitting with their old rating.

tbh, the big news is they’ve finally decided to have a public beta testing.

Raptured.9307:

The difference is that the engie bunkers not by avoiding dmg, but being tanky while destroying whoever comes to his base including bunkers. That effectively rules out the point of point bunker guards, who can last for a bit but can’t kill and melts under an engie.

omg, almost every class has a fair chance to win against a HGH engie 1vs1.

almost

every

class

1vs1

HGH engi is strong ( maybe too much) but this discussion is going way out of hand.

Chaith.8256:

Sixe.5704:

This is a screenshot of a 1v1 or should I say 0v1 as I never saw the thief coming. Now I’m a necro with a bit over 2k toughness and 29,600 hp. Never got a chance to hit back, and all this in a matter of about 2-3 seconds. How is this fair is pvp? Should so much burst damage be allowed right after stealth? Not to even mention when they blink out before they spike you.

What a pile of misinformation.

Okay, first off. Let’s say you take:

• Soldier’s Amulet & Jewel
• 30 pts in Death Magic & 30 pts in Blood Magic
• Freaking 5 Dolyak 1 Earth runes

You are at 2,050 toughness, and 28,312 Health from that. How are you claiming to have 29,600 health and over 2k toughness? That’s not even achievable if you sacrifice every possible thing in sPvP.

I am 100% certain that you have around 1200 toughness or less, actually, from those numbers. The guy has 0 might stacks, and had 0 bloodlust when he opened – everyone knows how much damage Glasscannon thieves do. You probably run Carrion, and maybe mistakenly thought your armour value was your toughness value.

You soaked 38,720 damage from that thief, 11,056 was from his burst combo, that’s 28.55% of the damage you took. 71.45% of the damage you took was like.. dodge-able, & counter-able. Heck, if you even turned around and looked intimidating you probably could have forced him to dodge off you.

Like many people in this thread have said already, it took the thief at least 5.75 seconds to do this to you, because the second Flame Blast hit you before he Heartseekers you for the last time and then autos. Even though you’ve insisted it was was 3 seconds max many times, the likelihood of the Thief circumventing internal sigil cooldowns, or using cheats is a lot lower than the chances of you being.. wrong.

Sorry man! You’re going to have to look for improvement within yourself before giving feedback on the forums.

now, burn. BURN.

Siva Mira.3546:

@Mrbig: You know what, if your BS Thief could kill eles right now, you would be telling anyone who complain about eles to L2P. That is who you are. Just because your BS Thief can kill HGH engie that doesn’t mean HGH engie is not OP. Just because I can dodge those over 5k spammable Autoatk that doesn’t mean he is fine. Otherwise eles are fine too because you should be capable of dodging everything he threw at you, isn’t it since you are a “PRO”.

Now thieves are OP ?

Where is this thread going omg Q_Q

Stealth.9324:

Mrbig.8019:

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

LoL, no worry he did on every Eles post. And you too, instead of direct ur trouble to Eles, how about learn to play against Eles? I have good Engines eat my eles eat me everyday.does that make Engineer Op?No

wut

no, i mean, there’s still people seriously defending eles ?

Even top eles say eles are too strong, triple cantrip ele is ridicolously OP and has NO COUNTER aside being outnumbered ( and yoy also need to outnumber him with the right proffs, otherwise he can easily resist 1vs3 for quite some time).

HGH engies are easily countered by burst, CCs and retaliation and can be soloed easily if you avoid key spells like blowtorch, freeze granades and glue shot.

A guardian can be easily soloed by an engie, by a thief ( unless he’s using shaman amulet), by a necro and by a ranger, plus he can’t go pushing far node BEFORE the team arrives. Moreover, a guardian can’t simply leave a fight and come back after 5 seconds back again at full health, or simply go away pushing mid.

If you can’t understand how gamebreaking the ele bunker is ( and even more eles stacking), and if you really believe HGH engie is more gamebreaking than a well played ele, i think you should seriously L2P.

so, it begins….

jportell.2197:

Cinaed.2649:

Maethar.5627:

Engis are close to eles in strength right now but their fix is much simpler in my opinion, just reduce hgh stacks duration and then re-evaluate their strength. Honestly I’m surprised that there is minimal qq about engis considering how powerful they are at the moment.

And those of us playing that build continue to think about making threads like “It’s time to nerf Thieves” but we don’t. Yet, we’re all thinking it. Same old QQ.

doesn’t this build have elixir S? Isn’t that a stun break… Doesn’t this build also have toughness…. Playing this their should be 0 issues with thieves

lol a thief is kinda like the best counter to hgh engies.

if you have elixir s on CD ( and usually, even when you don’t, as long as the thief is good and fakes his burst), you’re pretty much dead without any chance to react.

omg there’s too much fuss around hgh engies, they’re strong but not gamebreaking.

The ele is gambreaking. Why don’t you QQ about the ele, like every sane person ?

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think spectral armour should have a cool down of 60 seconds not 90 too. Or it should just give invulnerability like the engi little mode or mist form.

agree.

but still necros usually don’t bring a stun removal in order to carry rez sig.

I would never leave corrupt boon for a stun removal as long as i have 30 in soul reaping ( and who doesn’t at least have 20 points in SR ? )

Copenhagen.7015:

Thesilentflute.8761:

This is a joke well necros are supper high dps, minion necros are almost unkillable without 2 players one to kill necro, and one to kite pets. One of the best melee in the game the most aoe in the game and involarability doesnt stop dot dmg so it doesnt matter if your enemy has it and your heal eats conditions. Tied for highest hp class in the game and you have your class ability that give you an extra health bar and high dmg abilities.

Tied with Warrior for highest HP in game. Almost tied with Warrior in lowest ranking class in PvP. Ele has lowest health in the game, but highest in rank. Necro and Warrior have one F1 key. Ele and Mesmer have F1, F2, F3, F4 keys. More tools > armor/health/invulen/whateverthekitten.

lolwut.

Necro is still super strong, the only issue is that an engie can do its role better.

If you run a terror build you can still be very valuable to your team, a lot more than a thief ( THAT is the prof tied with the war at low tier).

But i overall agree necro is not top tier anymore, but simply middle of the pack.

Underpowered is a very strong word.

And there’s a lot more sinergy if you run nero-engie instead of engie-engie: focus a target with conditions and then spread the kitten up with epidemic = dead corpse everywhere.

You can’t do that without a necro.

google.3709:

is Heart seeker’s leap, a Dmg then leap? or leap then damage ? for what i understand about the stealth mechanics is that if you do damage, you get revealed.. so it’s a bug. but for the reply in general I can tell you’re not familiar with thief. but that’s okay

It seems you’re also not familiar with the thief.

the combo BP +HS gave stealth even after HS hit.

Technically, the leap finisher+ damage is considered as a whole, so you don’t get revelead after the damage ( it would make no sense even to have a combo doing stuff like that otherwise).

It has ALWAYS been like this.

If you’re referring to the normal D/P burst combo, it’s perfectly fine.

jportell.2197:

Rump Buffalo.2594:

ALL THEY’VE DONE IS NERF ENGINEERS

so buff them to where other stuff is viable and whoever says you can’t get 25 stacks of might in this build is full of it… This needs nerfed into the ground now…

you don’t start with full 25 stacks, you BUILD THEM over time, usually in more than 30-40 secs of fight.

you have a WHOLE BUILD built around gaining and sustain might.

HGH engie is OP because it has the most array of conditions available, with possible fast re-applications but even there i wouldn’t say it’s engie fault but other classes lacks ( a ranger in order to do the same needs to sacrifice a stunbreaker, necro has no access to burning while not having more bleeds power or more chillings, condi thief and mesmer are simply a joke).

HGH engie is simply well designed, but has tons of weakness that can be exploited bit no one seems to care.

1. burst
a good thief will always win against a HGH engie, as long as he avoids freeze nade and glue shot.

2. retaliation

take an offensive symbol guard, put reta on 2-3 people and watch the engie killing himself in no time

3. CCs

aside elixir s, the enge has no stunbreakers. i know it seems ridicolous, but a hammer warrior can 100-0 a enge by stunlocking him.

hope it helps.

personally i really can’t understand threads like this.

I mean, i agree with everything, but just can’t understand the " i love this game, but i uninstalled".

This game is B2P.

You can quit anytime you want, the game is there and won’t go anywhere: nobody is forcing you to play.

Just go playing something else and come back when you think GW2 has all the features you want, that’s all about it.

There’s no way you won’t come back unless you become dedicated about already affirmed E-sports such LoL or TF2 ( in that case there’s no need to come back).

That is all.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Oni Link.4621:

You should put ALL SPvP matters as top priority, because if you want GW2 to have a feature, you must do it. Otherwise it will die very soon. Everyone is saying that, because it is sooooo obvious.
I do not doubt you’re working, but you are working slow with wrong priorities. Wake up.

Working on every PvP feature we want concurrently is obviously not feasible. Everything must have a different priority. Dueling is a feature that could happen anywhere in the game, and could be picked up by a team other than the sPvP team. As far as our team’s priorities go, dueling is certainly not above custom arenas, spectators, shout casting, split queues, etc. I know everyone may want a specific feature first like dueling, and it sucks we can’t please everybody at once, but that’s the priority we’re working with.

split queues Q_Q

Don’t forget team/solo rating while you’re here, i want to play the game and be succesful at it, but by solo queing a lot due to IRL stuff ( because not all of us are 12 years old kids with 24/7 of time to play the game) i went from top 100 to 85% in a couple of pugging days, and since i do not have so much time nowdays, it’s becoming harder and harder not only to find a team, but also to find good players to play with for a good pug, at least for my timeframe.

Please.

Oni Link.4621:

Mrbig.8019:

Oni Link.4621:

Login and check the leaderboard to see your rating.

I guess the % means the % of your rating to enter the leaderboard, so 90% means your rating is 90% of the last one in leaderboard, the 1000th player.

that is not true.
being it a percentile distribution, it means if you’re at 90%, 10% of total population will be higher ranked than you.

From a rough numerical standpoint, 1000th on the leaderboards could be only 2 rank points above you if you’re at 90%, you wouldn’t know

percentile distributions are related to the WHOLE population, not only the leaderboards.

You may be right That is why I used the words “I guess” :P Anyway your idea may be the correct one but I personally hope not, because people need a reference of “how much I need to enter LB”, otherwise people will keep asking for a visible rating.

I completely agree we need a visible rating, but even more we need a solo/premade ranking split.

I was in top 1000 and with some matches lost in solo, I dropped out of the leaderboard.
the system is very pug unfriendly and for people (like me) who don’t have time fkr a schedule (like university exams, work and similar) solo que is simply ranking suicide: I can’t enjoy the game, and I’m forced into hotjoins (AWFUL).

I would like to play the game anytime I want and not onpy when I’m not busy with IRL stuff.

Percentile leaderboards are more than enough FOR NOW, solo/premade rating split is much more important.

Oni Link.4621:

Login and check the leaderboard to see your rating.

I guess the % means the % of your rating to enter the leaderboard, so 90% means your rating is 90% of the last one in leaderboard, the 1000th player.

that is not true.
being it a percentile distribution, it means if you’re at 90%, 10% of total population will be higher ranked than you.

From a rough numerical standpoint, 1000th on the leaderboards could be only 2 rank points above you if you’re at 90%, you wouldn’t know

percentile distributions are related to the WHOLE population, not only the leaderboards.

JonathanSharp.7094:

A couple things:

• For PvE/PvP/WvW, we know that those are 3 different playstyles, we don’t just lump PvE and WvW together.

• For those afraid of drastic differences between the game types – we’re not doing this. We’re mostly just splitting #’s (damage, healing, recharge, durations, etc.). Our old philosophy holds – once you learn a class in one area of the game, that knowledge should transfer to other areas of the game.

The only thing you can do then is to start to seriously buff those things ( be them traits/weapons/u-skills/elite) that are not only underused, but also seriously underpowered and sometimes just plainly useless.

Thief traps/signets ( basically every U-skills that are not Shadowstep/Shadow Refuge/ Assassin Signet and MAYBE Blinding Powder and Ambush Trap) Sword, OH dagger, overall all traits aside few good ones,

Engi turrets, gadgets, elixir gun

Necro minions, spectarl skills, corruptions aside corrupt boon and epidemic, signets

Ele fire and earth trait line, signets, glyphs, conjures,

etc. etc.

are all examples of very underused/underpowered stuff.

I can ( and i’m sure we all can) agree with your ideas of not splitting too much in order to keep profession feel in every area of the game, but some stuff ( MOST STUFF with some profession) simply doesn’t work at all or is underperforming.

That’s the main reason why the meta is stale, and has been for 5 months.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So you guys know, we already split some skills. And, what’s most pertinent to the current thread, we plan to do this even more.

When we first shipped, it was awesome to have a lot of the balance be the same between PvE/WvW/PvP. But, as you guys have really started to push the game types to their limits, classes and specs that work in one areas of the game are sometimes ineffectual in others.

Due to this, we’ll have to do more splitting of skills to better balance the various areas of the game.

TL:DR – We already do this, and we’ll be using it even more in order to balance the different areas of the game effectively.

Thanks for the good news, it’s really needed.

Nunganok.4590:

Mrbig.8019:

Hammerheart.1426:

Here are the solo spvper options in GW2:

1) Thresh the wheat in Hotjoins (assuming you know how)
2) Solo Queue for a tournament and get placed against a premade.

then invite your team ( or some guy you think is skilled) in a party and join again.

rinse and repeat till you get a full party.

now you have a premade.

you’re welcome.

Hammerheart and I have been spvp’ing/tpvp’ing in premades since BWE’s. Our Unique ID’s on the forums are not our UID’s in game. So dont look us up and rate us on that. We dont like revealing who we are.

We roll with premades all day, we roll you and people like you all day. But, as people on the top, we have noticed these huge defects in the system and are trying to voice our opinions NOT as scrubs on the bottom, but as hardcore spvp’ers on the top noticing the sad state of the game for you little peons, filthy peasants.

Sorry if that offends you, deal with it.

it seems that someone got buttuhurt, what a pity.

Chill out and overcome an EASY overcomeble problem. There’s a flaw in the system and that’s sure, but you can bypass it by simply joining and adding a guy each time you fight, in order to get a premade, so that you can at least avoid leavers, afkers and people who don’t know how to play .

It’s simple logic, and i was not looking down at any one, unlike you, mr “pro” ( LOL)

Hammerheart.1426:

Here are the solo spvper options in GW2:

1) Thresh the wheat in Hotjoins (assuming you know how)
2) Solo Queue for a tournament and get placed against a premade.

then invite your team ( or some guy you think is skilled) in a party and join again.

rinse and repeat till you get a full party.

now you have a premade.

you’re welcome.

maybe you should read more carefully. 2 patches ago they resetted win/loss and their ratio, but they kept ratings from march till now.

A guy with 12 wins simply has not played much from last 2 patches but played a lot from march till now, and had a high ranking to begin with.

OMG stop the hate, those leaderboards are a very good start, the only flaw is the inabiity to see your rating and not having a solo/premade rating split.

The end.

/closethread.

Now i believe no one should ever solo que.

Not only you are risking your rating, but you’re also lowering the level of your pre-made, if you create one, making your team to face worse enemies, slowing your ( and their) rating increase.

Solo queing is actually bad and not beneficial in any shape or form.

The only positive note is that MMR will make the same teams to face each other over and over, so the super cheese will soon get discovered, abused, AND NERFED, with subsequentially buffs to other classes.

Maybe balance will come from it, who knows.

Ostricheggs.3742:

There would be a great benefit in making solo/duo queues seperate from trio-5man queues while taking into account the number of players solo/duo queueing with trio-4mans. Right now the system is flawed and punishes solo queuers (like myself) and punishes those players at the top who don’t solo queue but lose to solo queuers. This skews the leaderboards so they’re NOT legitimate.

I personally think that I ruined davinci and sataar’s chances at being at the top of the leaderboards because I beat them a lot recently in gasmask, shan’s and lily’s group. They deserve it wayyyy more than those three IMO. It’s a shame, really. The guys who worked the hardest at it got screwed over by the guys who just started playing hardcore again and picked a few games off the guys who should be at the top. While they DID end up beating the top players, having someone like me with a terrible ratio because I solo queue beat them just makes it far, far worse.

Your system is flawed a-net. Please address this quickly

BAM.

Sadly true.

As things stand right now, i would love to make a team again with my guildies and play to win, but i can’t right now due to exams session and i’m forced to solo que.

This means that i’ll ruin my rating, unless i carry 4 pugs.

Time to play HGH engi exclusively, no other way to carry pugs otherwise

looool in 2 hours team curse, idle and paradigm are already top of the food chain.

I just hope the competition will get better, because it’s going just like everybody would expect.

Sigh, i know it would have happened someday…

Kline.9561:

Ostricheggs.3742:

It is legitly overpowered at the skill cap. However, the skill floor and skill cap in an HgH build are extremely high, arguably the highest in the game.

It is the only build to have the hardest and most reliably used skill shot. There is no comparison to the punishment one experiences when you miss a grenade. It is the central aspect of the build and piggybacks on its ability to deal both physical and condition damage via might stacks. It’s also the only class in the game that is solely reactionary. Very, very rarely do engineers actually determine the outcome of a fight based upon their abilities and forcing their opponents to react to it. The engineer is the one reacting themselves by nature of the class and build.

The simple fact of the matter is that it IS a very strong build and DOES need to be nerfed, but people need to understand that it is not a d/d elementalist. There are not five players in the entire world who can land grenades reliably and effectively play HgH at a decent skill level in tourneys.

As far as how to nerf it? That’s another story. Personally I think that nerfs to on swap sigils and might duration runes are the best way to go. Nade kit is the only thing in the entire game that fully takes advantage of might both via physical damage and condi damage. The insane damage of grenades needs to stay just because of its nature as the hardest skill shot in the game, but the insane-er damage of grenades with massive amounts of might stacks needs to go.

Maybe reduce the effect of on-swap sigils on engineers and eles? We can make the best of them because of how we operate with our “swaps”. We only need one sigil to make it work.

Also, burning is the hardest hitting condi in the game and engis are the only class that has a viable condi build that can reliably take advantage of its power. Most other classes with access to burning do not have a wide variety of other conditions to cover it.

personally i think HGH engi is fine strong but not overpowered no reason to over think it or explain it people know. what makes them a problem in tpvp is the game mode we call conquest, it hard holding points with 2 HGH engis spamming grenades on point

recently lost to a team running 2 bunker guards and 2 HGH engis and a mesmer running repair kit on portal

cheesy and annoying but i wouldn’t say op we held our own

now where the real problem with engis does not come from the HGH build it comes from there overwhelming amount of useless utilities. why bring battering ram? when i get more cc using kits! turrents? pshhhhhh please.. too many skills not finding a place anywhere for the engi.

HGH engies are really OP, maybe not as much as eles, but definitively OP.

They’re not OP till you run with rampagers, because you think “well, i die quickly after all”.

Then you start running with rabid+ might stacking runes and then you think " how can i dish so much damage ?!?! it’s ridicolous !!!".

But basically, what @Ostricheggs already said: HGH engies are skillshot at its finest, they should NEVER nerf it too much.

They should indeed nerf might stacking issues and it will be fine.

Phantaram.1265:

Balance isn’t the reason people are leaving. So while I agree splitting more stuff from pve and wvwvw is a good idea it’s far down on the list of important things.

You’ll see, now that leaderboards are up and it is going to be easier to spot cheese comps, how many people will leave due to balance being so bad.

And i wonder how much PvP population is going to grow now that there are no more macro thieves killing rank 2 players in a sec with haste.
( said by a former haste thief who rerolled to signet).

There’s no game out there where the extremes are so wide and strong ( burst and bunker), in this game balance is a quite good portion of people frustration, especially when an ele chases you for the whole map while replenishing his life simply to go back bunkering far point against 3 people ( unless you have a thief+ mesmer or engie).

JonathanSharp.7094:

^

Go to there!

HOW CAN SQUAD NUMBER FOUR BE SO LOW ?!?!?!

He has been dominating for 5 months, and he’s only 97TH !!!!

There’s indeed something wrong.

DiogoSilva.7089:

In GW1, there was a crazy, unnecessary number of skill splits. Pvp splits that were still pointless in pvp, pve splits that were still pointess in pve, and even skills that were radically different depending on their format. To give one example, Signet of Spirits summons 3 spirits in pve, but for pvp it is an energy management skill instead. Outside of sharing the same name, they are pretty much two different skills that are locked to each mode. It’s ridiculous.

Bad splitting is a whole, other, story.

Splitting is necessary, in this game splitting is ABSOLUTELY NEEDED and needs to be done a lot more than how it’s done currently.

Classes like the war/thief/mesmer ( guess what, those with the smallest number of viable builds) are held down by them being too stronk in PvE or WvW where they have much more viable builds and /or are extremely powerful.

DEVS SAID IT CLEARLY.

This is ridicolous and needs to stop asap.

i would not mind if PvP skills/traits/u-skills were COMPLETELY different from PvE ones, because i want the game to be as balanced/competitive as possible.

They won’t do it and i’m fine with it, but then we need a mid ground ( split some traits, some utilities as well as buffing all this uselessness that is , guess what, a good 50/60 & of all professions aside maybe the guardian and the ele).

You can split perfectly without smiter’s booning.

The only thing i can ask for from devs is:

L2split.

Battosai.5620:

garethh.3518:

The troll ungent heals for roughly 1k every sec for 10s on a 25s CD.
If the ranger takes it, its brutal healing to beat threw.

why would you ever choose to run troll unguent instead of healing spring as a bm ranger in spvp?
healing spring is way stronger and it gives really good support in teamfights as well – aoe condition remove, 15 sec water field, aoe reg and aoe vigor, all in one skill – there is literally no reason to run TU on a bm ranger build. furthermore why are all people running LR instead of signet?
your pet can be in the midfight clearing all conditions on your allies, while you assault far point, defend homepoint or do some other objective – then you swap pet and all conditions are gone.

Personaly, i run both signet and LR, mostly due to not having anything else worth taking, aside maybe muddy terrain ( unless you want to pump up pet damage with sick em or bring a ress with Search and rescue).

With LR you can last for quite long even against double burst ( like mesmer-thief) on far point, and if you call back your pet you can even kill the thief.

What’s your build batto ?

Thesilentflute.8761:

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

Viability: thief is fine, learn to play the class.
Diversity: having 2 specs (one requiring vastly more experience, skill, and communication/cooperation than the other – thus never being seen) is somewhat stale. However that being said the only class with true build diversity is the guardian.

Complaining about skill issues is pointless. You’re crying because you don’t have haste for your heartseeker spam post burst, requiring you to outplay people instead of face roll. Learn the class, how it plays, and what it’s capable of before whining on forums about quickness as a thief. The quickness nerf didn’t even touch backstab in terms of viability, and reduced pistol whip and unload specs to completely unplayable (not to say they were viable before).

-Caed

“outplay” you say.

You know perfectly you have to ALWAYS outplay any opponent as a thief to win a single 1vs1.

What if you can’t OUTPLAY your opponent ?
What if your opponent is skilled ?

You always assume you can outplay everyone, but in reality you can’t.
Having a point assuming your opponent is a baddie and you can do as you please with him is a bad start.

Anyway, my point is totally different, and i’ll repost, as always.

---

It’s not simply about the thief. Quickness nerf affected burst classes and will soon affect the whole tPvP mentality.
Pre-nerf, it wouldn’t matter how tanky you were, you knew that with a single mistake you could be blowed up by a war/thief or a time warp+war, and had to be careful since a ranger was always there for a quick stomp in order to finish you.
Now bunkers are less punished for their mistakes.
There are no more wars, thieves can’t oneshot 100% anymore and since you can no more follow with a heartsekeer, you’re totally relying on mug-backstab to crit: if one or the other does blank damage, your burst has failed ( with haste you were able to increase dagger hit volume and somehow “standardize” your burst damage without blindly relying to RNG) and rangers can no more quick stomp.
So not only they’re less punished for their mistakes, but they can also be ressed faster ( how many times a quick stomp totally negated a signet of undead/illusion of life and similar ? ).
The meta will soon push into super bunker comps + 1 or 2 high AoE damage proff ( aka 3-4 eles+ guard + random eng/ran/mes/necro), where the comp BY ITSELF counters the thief.
It’s not that hard, really.
_

But as i said before, i was simply too hasty.

We’ll talk again after a week and we’ll see who was right.

That is a scaling issue it has nothing to do with how op thief is my buddy is having no issue with his. I think playing better is a good start or you could start spamming heartseeker like the rest. People always complain about how weak eng and ranger are so I put down my mesmer and picked up a ranger to prove them wrong, Thief is still the most op class in the game if you fail at thief you just fail the end.

how weak eng
Thief is still the most op class in the game

eng weak

thief most op class

thief op

eng weak

LOLWOT

ensoriki.5789:

Worth playing? S/D pre-nerf was stronger than current burst. It’s pretty much still stronger than D/ in WvW especially post-culling, with the exception that WvW allows simply obscene stats like 112% crit damage, which can make D/ burst more outrageous. Though the quickness nerf poked at S/D, it still is a naturally hard hitting set and would’ve been even more monstrous in it’s current state if DD and CnD hadn’t been nerfed.

In fact i said “not only worth, but even superior”.

In WvW it’s still there, C&D an TS are not nerfed at all ( TS is even buffed, lol).

The point is that we already have a very little, niche role in the meta: as soon as the meta shifts ( or rather, it has already shifted), the thief will become “not optimal” , just like the war was pre-quickness nerf ( altough it had some nice sinergy with time warp).

That’s about it.

PowerBottom.5796:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

In some cases you’re absolutely right. In the case of the thief I don’t think so.
Everything a thief can do, another class can do it better (e.g. condition, teamsupport, AoE-dmg, cc, survivability) The only thing that no other class can do, is this rapid burst from hide.
But that is just my opinion on it. No need to feel attacked by my words.
Inventors are still necessary, in every aspect. So keep it up.

I think this Thief-build fits a certain niche very well, especially in the current metagame:

- No other class has such an easy time spreading Poison+Weakness, two of the key-Elements of bringing down Tanks, especially the Ele-tank, if you don’t wanna rely on spiking him down with a Backstabber and a Mesmer (which can work, but it’s still risky)
- The Mobility of this build is ridiculous, especially thanks to the Shadow-Trap – it’s basically a Portal-light.
- In Terms of a Balanced-build, the ratio of sustain and DMG is pretty good, comparable with a valk-amu Ele.
- No other class has such an easy time landing a pretty much guaranteed Immobilize for 1 second – you cannot dodge it if you don’t blindly anticipate the Teleport, which is probably 80% luck-based.
- Almost no other build (I have an Ele-build with Glyph of Elemental Power that has single-target perma-Crippling) has such an easy time to control Movement with tons of AoE-Crippling-Effects.

So yeah, In Teamfights, this build rocks, in 1v1 or 1v2 against non Condition-spammers it can at least buy time (so you can actually hold the node you are defending with your trap, sometimes even like 30 seconds against two opponents) and 1v1’s against Glass-Cannon Thiefs, and Shatter-Mesmers, I win pretty easily actually.

You can spread AoE poison + weakness even with the standard burst build. Even more since you deal more damage when your opponent has a condition on, and even more since you have 15 ini due to Preparedness.

Moreover you bring instant interrupts thanks to Head Shot and and AoE blinding field thanks to Black Powder.

While you lose some ranged control ( very expansive and abokittenely not worth it, or rather dancing dagger), you gain burst and interrupts.

The sustain damage ratio in your build is absolutely not comparable, a thief needs to CRIT otherwise thief damage is pitiful when related to its team utility/survivabiity ( unlike valky ele).

I’ve played LOTS of thief builds, overall the problem is that is simply no sinergy at all in traits in order to make a good, competitive build ( for conquests) for the thief.

There was a very good build relying on CCs and costant daze-pressure, back in november pre-nerf hammer, that was not only comparable to the burst build, but even superior.

The S/D build could completely shut down any foe ( and with flanking strike stripping boons, it would not even be countered by stability) and could compete against any class, any shape or form, with great sustain damage and great CCs.

It was actually the only build worth playing, aside burst, and in fact, in WvW ( where those nerfs are not valid) it is still dominating ( S/D thieves in WvW are by far scarier and stronger).

You can make all the builds you want, there’s no thing a thief can do that an other class can’t do better, or that you couldn’t do with the comon burst build.

ensoriki.5789:

Med.6150:

Mrbig.8019:

let me say it again:

oh dagger post nerf is USELESS

a ranged cripple dealing bad damage for 4 ini is USELESS especially when with the same set + oh pistol you have a spammable, 900 range, istant gap closer dealing very good damage.

C&D can be totally overcame with D/P by using BP + HS combo. Without target requirments.

oh dagge is terrible, it was already inferior to OH pistol regarding utility, withits damage nerf has became completely useless.

Why are you even using the quote button, if you aren’t reading what you are quoting, let alone actually replying to it.

I have been trying to make a point, which is that the current weapon sets* can hardly be adjusted to the desired goals* (mobility not restricted to shortbow, power and condition damage, utility), when there are so few weapon combinations available to the thief and the current offhands already carry suitable effects for the thief’s role.

You might not like the range cripple, but it has its uses (beyond closing a gap yourself, believe it or not). You might not like the stealth, but it’s a stealth on demand (whether BP + HS is better or not really is beside the point here, but to get technical, BP + HS has its own downsides, as you need to make sure to not put your smoke field on an already existing one, it’s more expensive in terms of initiative and it takes 1.25s to complete).

Basically, our offhand weapons are designed well (again, they are not perfect and offhand dagger skills are too expensive as mentioned 3 long posts ago), so that it’s almost impossible to adjust them accordingly.

You either end up with a smoke field that teleports you to your target, a built in shadowstep for C&D (imagine the crying on the forums) or a shadowstep + cripple (Dancing Dagger). Either way, those skills would be way, way too good to carry all that and that’s just in order to make these weapon sets more attractive compared to the short bow in terms of mobility.

The thief just doesn’t have enough weapon skills to carry all that, so that, at the very least, the short bow will probably remain the only viable option for mobility.

Huh?
Adding new weapons doesn’t change that the previous exist.

The only thing really suffering in mobility is the Pistol, one has none, the other requires melee range. Sword doesn’t excel as strongly without a target. HS can get you distance, but not vertical. I don’t see much of a qualm. Just fix what is there.
HS is a fine mobility skill, it doesn’t get vertical but so what, it’s good at horizontal distance which is fine in it’s own right. Improve the access to good Increased Movement Speeds and D/ will Fall in line due to Heartseeker.

You can address thief mobility without ever touching a single off-hand.
-Make both Infiltrators Strike, and Infiltrator’s Signet Ground-targeted.
-Have Body shot warp you back like Phase retreat. Throw a chain skill to restrict it’s kiting like what has been done with Infiltrator Strike.
- Improve the IMS by going over acrobatics, improving Expeditious Dodger, removing Assassin retreat, re-evaluating SOS, etc. Indirectly boosting HS and directly boosting mobility.

Don’t ever need to touch an off-hand.

I agree, especially regarding inf strike, altough it would become HELLYSH to land it (in that case they should buff its damage).

regarding other ones, I’m not so sure.

having inf sig ground targeted would overlap with shadow step, it’s not really needed: a revision would be more appreciated.

Regarding body shot, pre beta thief had a similar skill (retreat shot) which has been already removed and replaced with BP.

moreover, the short bow would still rule supreme due to AoE damage and AoE poison and weakness.

as I said ( and I’m actually kinda sad of it)there’s no way to buff the thief till shortbow is nerfed into the ground.

Med.6150:

Mrbig.8019:

Med.6150:

To be honest you’ll have a huge problem applying these changes to the thief class due to the very limited range of weapons a thief has.

You have exactly two offhand weapons (might be a good idea to make the sword an offhand weapon as well at this point, to open up more choices btw). The combinations are limited and both offhand weapon skills are already quite good in terms of utility (C&D and Dancing Dagger especially are rather expensive, but the skills are sound in design).

wut.

OH dagger is completely useless.

it deals bad damage, is highly ini expensive, offers very little utility.

Let me highlight what you quoted, sir:

…both offhand weapon skills are already quite good in terms of utility(C&D and Dancing Dagger especially are rather expensive, but the skills are sound in design).

I never said they did good damage, because they are not supposed to. Offhand skills are utilitiy based for our weapons. I pointed out how C&D and Dancing Dagger (this one even more so) are rather expensive and while you believe a range cripple and stealth are badly designed utility skills for a thief, I believe them to be very suited for it.

let me say it again:

oh dagger post nerf is USELESS

a ranged cripple dealing bad damage for 4 ini is USELESS especially when with the same set + oh pistol you have a spammable, 900 range, istant gap closer dealing very good damage.

C&D can be totally overcame with D/P by using BP + HS combo. Without target requirments.

oh dagge is terrible, it was already inferior to OH pistol regarding utility, withits damage nerf has became completely useless.

Med.6150:

To be honest you’ll have a huge problem applying these changes to the thief class due to the very limited range of weapons a thief has.

You have exactly two offhand weapons (might be a good idea to make the sword an offhand weapon as well at this point, to open up more choices btw). The combinations are limited and both offhand weapon skills are already quite good in terms of utility (C&D and Dancing Dagger especially are rather expensive, but the skills are sound in design).

wut.

OH dagger is completely useless.

it deals bad damage, is highly ini expensive, offers very little utility.

C&D can be totally replaced by BP+ HS combo with D/P while having the great utility. OH pistol can offer.

Moreover OH dagger offers AWFUL dual skills like Death blossom ( totally useless in a power build, useless in condi build, being the build absolutely awful in the first place) and flanking strike ( wonky, slow, with bad pathing, unreliable evade).

it was good pre-nerf ( maybe a little too strong), then the nerf totally slaughtered it and currently there’s absolutely no point in bringing OH dagger.

A rehaul could benefit a lot S/D set and give more ways to play D/D and P/D, especially if they can create new sinergy with boon hate + condi builds.

Altough i agree about giving the thief more weapons, your sentence regarding OH dagger is absolutely wrong.

Puru.4217:

JonathanSharp.7094:

So with the Thief, we feel like their straight burst with some sets is too good as it is (Mug/C &D/BS/heartseeker), but a lot of other things are weak in comparison, which is bad.

The goal is to allow them to punish boons (something we also want to try with the Warrior) while also improving their mobility with all weapon sets (since Shortbow is already strong at that, but it overpowers other options).

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

Thieves are subpar in pve because they are simply not warriors, guardians or mesmers. Seems you’re going to reduce their damage and give them “boon hate” (pve boss barely use boons meaning thief will be even more terrible, woohoo?)
Thieves aren’t strong at all in wvw despise what people think, they are decent at best. It’s the one, if not the most worthless class to have during zergs, and an d/d ele is infinitly superior at roaming and can switch to something like staff for keep attacks/defence. They are the best at trolling i guess, awesome!!!
Thieves are weak in pvp, good against noobs but 10 time less effective and frustrating than mesmers against the same players and are plagued with lots of terrible traits, skills and utilities for no reason (mesmers aren’t for some reason, seems having stealth, good mobility in combat, decent burst and damage and clones is not dangerous for balance all of a sudden, how mysterious).

It won’t prevent me for playing that class at all,, i honestly don’t care that much as long as you don’t nerf the shortbow or infiltrator’s strike, but you can’t say i didn’t warned you about how struggling that class is atm (not as much as warrior in pvp though, but i consider warrior easier to salvage than thieves).

The mesmer is not as strong as you picture it.

it’s very easy to handle a mesmer 1vs1 and basically its utility resides only in its GREAT u-skills and elite.

Indeed it’s powerful, but it’s also quite easy to exploit its weaknesses ( conditions, positioning, little to no mobility in combat aside phase retreat).

Ikitten-axis fight, like henge in nifhel, a thief can literally kill the mesmer by simply staying on the ledge and shortbowing him.

But surely the thief is weaker than the mesmer.

Well, tbh the thief is weaker than anyone aside the war.

poor wars :’(

Brutal Arts.6307:

JonathanSharp.7094:

So with the Thief, we feel like their straight burst with some sets is too good as it is (Mug/C &D/BS/heartseeker), but a lot of other things are weak in comparison, which is bad.

The goal is to allow them to punish boons (something we also want to try with the Warrior) while also improving their mobility with all weapon sets (since Shortbow is already strong at that, but it overpowers other options).

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

Pardon me but why does the class with the best burst and the best escapes ALSO need boon punishing?

Wouldn’t it be better to give that to another class?

probably because the thief is one of the worse performer in high end tPvP.

probably because we’re playing with the same build for 4 months, and 90 % of thief u-skills / traits and weapons are crap.

Probaably this boon hate won’t solve anything , and the thief will still be bad.

PROBABLY.

JonathanSharp.7094:

So with the Thief, we feel like their straight burst with some sets is too good as it is (Mug/C &D/BS/heartseeker), but a lot of other things are weak in comparison, which is bad.

The goal is to allow them to punish boons (something we also want to try with the Warrior) while also improving their mobility with all weapon sets (since Shortbow is already strong at that, but it overpowers other options).

As Allie said, we want to be careful to balance their WvW/PvE potential against their PvP potential, and then inside of PvP, we have to be careful to watch how they perform at high ranks vs. low ranks.

I overall agree.

But is “boon hate” or “more mobility with other weapon sets” going to help it ?

let’s face it : no thief will ever run without shortbow due to obvious sinergy between Lotus Poison + choking gas and due to it being the only AoE weapon in thief arsenal.

Moreover, it’s the only weapon allowing us to move in Z axis and reach points beyond other classes reach.

The shortbow gives us too much, and i think no good thief will ever leave it in the backpack unless you nerf it HARD.

moreover, let’s face it: the boon hate stuff won’t also fix anything, because the only working weapon set is D/P.

S/P doesn’t work due to being slow and wonky, and without quickness is worthless, and it will still be worthless even if you make it able to “hate boons”

P/P doesn’t work due to being bad in all aspects: burst-sustain-utility and it will still be worthless even if you make it able to “hate boons”.

S/D became totally useless after the brutal nerf to OH dagger and tactical strike; flanking strike is wonky and slow, and more than often it puts you in disadvantage due to a slow animation and bad pathing.
This set will still be worthless even if you make it able to “hate boons”

Dagger OH, after that brutal nerf, is totally useless, and i would never use it, unless you are able to create good sinergy by making it “hating boons”, in conjunction with Sword MH.

But even it that case, Flankin strike issues are too glaring, and i would still not use it till you fix it ( or buff tactical strike again).

Moreover, things are not going to change till you create good sinergy between other traitlines, because currently we’re using the only build with good sinergy, at least for a conquest gae type ( a shadow arts heavy build was possible only pre-november nerf to S/D, due to heavy CCs and more sustained power).

Thief issues are way beyond " more mobility and boon hate".

From a “structure” standpoint, the war is a lot more solid than the thief, and needs less “work” in order to make it work.

From a thief standpoint, i really don’t see how to handle it without heavy rehauling.
__________________________________________________________________
Edit:

Anyway, thanks for your time.

This is the level of communication we’re asking for ( not only regarding this thread).

keep it up

xantosnightwish.5438:

With Warrior needing an complete revamping, I cant see why we’re even talking about thieves atm. Backstab w/signet. Backstab some more.

or play Ele while youre waiting like all the Warrior players are atm….

What kind of argument is that ’

Simply because the war is in a worse shape, we should ignore the 90% of the thief profession that is underperforming/not viable at all ?

If i were a P/P thief, i would feel like a war.

With the only difference i would have NEVER been viable from game release.

Moreover, the thief is the LOWEST tier proff after the war.

AllieMurdock.1785:

Hey all, thanks for the feedback! I just wanted to pop in here real quick to let you know that we’re looking at ways to balance out skills and traits that were affected by the quickness change.

Right now, Thief is still very good in WvW, so we have to take that into consideration. Also, in lower Elo games, it is still doing well with its burst. In higher Elo, we recognize that it could use some tweaks.

These are things that we need to consider when making changes to the Thief, so try to keep that in mind when giving us feedback.

First of all, thanks Allie, this is problably the first dev post regarding thieves in sPvP and i’m very happy you took the time to answer.

The point, anyway, is not burst, thief burst is indeed strong if not the strongest in game.

The point is that basically all other options are very lacklustre, and thieves have been running the same 3-4 u-skills from game start, after some very HARD nerfs like Pistol whip, venoms, OH dagger and Tactical strike ( not accounting condition builds which were never viable from the start, due to few conditions applied in huge stacks, so easily removed by the abundance of passive condition removals and by eles in team fights).

Are there any plan to bring other sets up to par by rehauling/buffing stuff like Tactical strike, Flanking strike, P/P, S/P, condition builds and useless/ sub par traits and utilities ?

If WvW is so much of a problem, why don’t you split thief skills /traits more for PvP ?

Thanks for your time, it’s really appreciated.

xantosnightwish.5438:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

We will leave this thread open, but will keep an eye on it. If it will get derailed or something like the earlier “incident” will take place, we will close it immediately.

We understand that leaderboards are very important to you, but please understand that we also want to make sure they work as intended, because I am very sure incorrectly working leaderboards would not make a highly competitive PvP base happy. We will let you know when they will be going live as soon as we feel comfortable to do so.

So please keep the discussion in this thread civil and on point.

Martin,

Thank you first and foremost for communicating this to us. Please understand that 99.9% of the “highly competitive” community would be content if you guys simply kept us in the loop more. In the last 6+ months, we as a community have been jerked around with empty promises of e-sport and it is very hard to continue to support this game when we know NOTHING about the direction it is headed.

You are the first (FIRST) dev to come on and give us something of a concrete answer on what the heck is going on with the leaderboards. Thank you again for your time and please encourage your higher ups to COMMUNICATE via a formal announcement regarding the delay of leaderboards SOON. Without such an announcement, how can you expect the player base NOT to ask questions?

Thanks again!

Basically, dis.

Eurantien.4632:

This is why they shouldn’t give us deadlines and soon is the best response.

Or maybe they could simply make an in forums announcement saying " sorry guise, we had a delay, Leaderboards will come in another week".

maybe they should simply L2communicate.

@arheundel

1-2. I don’t want to nullify ele healing, i want heal scaling to be nerfed into dust.

It’s ridicolous to have the ele heal to full by simply switching into water and make a dodge roll.

EA mechanic is lame and unskillful, they should remove EA at all or rework it, because having both heal on water attu swap and EA togheter is simply ridicolous.

making trident or cleansing wave have cast times would totally kill balanced ele survivability.

The only thing they need to do is rework EA and nerf scaling HARD, in order to avoid these perma vigor spamming heals by simply dodging.

As far as mobility is concerned, even with thief mobility buffed, i would pick an ele over a thief, because the ele offers much more to the team.

they need to nerf RTL and make it 900 range FIRST, and affected by slows ALSO.

Add this to 3. the boon hate mechanic ( hoping for goods) and then you can start buffing fire and earth sucky traitlines in order to have more builds.

But in current state, the ( at least) 20 water -30 arcane ele is totally imba.

As far as the OP is concerned….

DEVS, are you going to do something about the thief ?

Do you know we’re playing with the same build for 4 MONTHS after you ruined the only decent alternative ( S/D daze spamming) ?

Are you going to fix P/P, S/D, S/P and condition builds ?

DO YOU KNOW the thief is the least viable class in the game after the war ?

1. no AoE ( this is actually quite bad)

2. as i said in the other thread, a bunker will eventually take the node from you if you steLth too much.

3. switch those 10 points from acro to deadly arts and pick mug.

as soon as I’ll be able to go back playing (leaderboards moved my old mates to thinking to go back playing, i hope they will) I’ll try a S/D build, but i would personally avoid stealth due to it being too much an hinderance for capping and due to Tactical strike + C&D combo dealing bad damage and not worthy CC after the nerf.

i will probably go with a 10-30-0-30-0 build with heavy ini regen + assassin reward in order to tank damage while dealing good pbAoE with flanking strike.

i would really love to pick up P/P over SB with S/D set, but sadly the short bow is not only better, but also too important due to AoE