Guild Wars 2

Med.6150:

Mrbig.8019:

The best build doesn’t even run gs, gs is decent right now simply for its mobility ( dunno why people don’t ttry merciless hammer, since it deals lot more dps than 100 blades and you can even chain stuns right after, but whatever).

It’s absolutely false that Hammer deals more damage than Greatsword. Hammer simply allows for more control and AoE, which can help in a lot of match ups that are difficult for GS, because most of the damage is stationary. GS outdamages Hammer easily, however.

Maybe if we account a standard environment, with the standard 20-20-0-0-30 build. Since we’re talking of a GS-cleansing ire build and a STUNNED player,thanks to merciless hammer it will deal 25% more damage.

BY DEFAULT a simple hammer AA chain will outdamage 100blades if you keep attacking for all 100 blades duration and you can easily compare the damage: 100blades is a 3,5 sec channeling dealing, in my build, 4800 blank damage, while hammer AA will deal, in the same time, 5600 blank damage.

This without accounting, of course, GS traits ( which i don’t have) and merciless hammer neither.

In a GS-cleansing ire build, you’ll only get might with every crit, something that could add up to 10% increased damage overall.

With merciless hammer, you gain, on top of a stronger DPS, 25% more damage against unactive foes.

This without account that 100 blades most damaging attack is the last one, which won’t always connect ( according to your opponent stunbreaker).

This without accounting you can easily stop the AA chain with you hammer and going stunlock with backbreaker, staggering blow and earthsacker ( which deals by itself 5-6k crits if your foe is disabled, which again, will 100% occur).

You’re wrong.

Arganthium.5638:

Mrbig.8019:

omg what a terrible build.

And omg what a terrible player O_o

Bad players should NEVER post stuff like this and cry for OP stuff, this is EXACTLY what made you dear thief class nerfed to the ground in almost EVERYTHING.

I’m not really saying that warriors are “fine” ( warriors are crazy strong right now, it’s ridicolous players don’t understand it and i can’t even play currently so i don’t know if teams are getting this and bringing wars again into their comps but whatever) since they aren’t, but “proofs” like this are simply ridicolous.

I’ve dueled condi warriors to understand their strenghts, an S/D thief will ALWAYS win against them.

Stun warriors or LB-HA warriors are those we should worry about.

I agree with most of this, I might say that the matchup between warr and thief is more like 70-30 or 80-20 thief’s favor though.

You said it, the match up is in favor of the thief.

You need to SCREW UP in order to lose ( or the war opponent needs to seriously outplay you), otherwise you’ll win: there’s a chance you might lose, but it’s minimal.

That’s not the case again stun warriors: you need to be almost exclusively in shortbow in order to win or have your Shadow return out of LoS( and it will take you LOOOONG time), otherwise after the second skull crack you’re going to go down like a fly.

It’s all about lucky dodges since skull crack is istant, and the war has so many stuns you can even FAKE them and force your opponent to dodge and hit skull crack right after.

The best build doesn’t even run gs, gs is decent right now simply for its mobility ( dunno why people don’t ttry merciless hammer, since it deals lot more dps than 100 blades and you can even chain stuns right after, but whatever).

omg what a terrible build.

And omg what a terrible player O_o

Bad players should NEVER post stuff like this and cry for OP stuff, this is EXACTLY what made you dear thief class nerfed to the ground in almost EVERYTHING.

I’m not really saying that warriors are “fine” ( warriors are crazy strong right now, it’s ridicolous players don’t understand it and i can’t even play currently so i don’t know if teams are getting this and bringing wars again into their comps but whatever) since they aren’t, but “proofs” like this are simply ridicolous.

I’ve dueled condi warriors to understand their strenghts, an S/D thief will ALWAYS win against them.

Stun warriors or LB-HA warriors are those we should worry about.

LE

WAT

MoGoW.1875:

Proc on swap, gg

C’mon, it’s not like 3 stacks of bleeds or 5 secs of poison are that gamebreaking.

If you were able to know WHEN burn is going to be applied by the spirit ranger/necro/engi, would you still lose on your ele against them ?

Maybe, but at least there’s now room for counterplay.

kailin.4905:

The problem with what you are showing is you are talking about a condi build with 30 in spite which no condimancer ran until a month ago. Which is mainly what is creating the burst condition meta. With the current condition burst sustain is not as big an issue because targets die fast. Try a spec that’s not burst conditions (like necro pre patch) and thus was not the case. Also spectral armor only protects 33% damage and is now capped on LF generation by internal cool down. Its a decent skill now that I use myself, but if damage buffs are reverted it will not be enough.

you don’t understand

Using spectral armor AND going immediately after into DS ( as soon as you receive a strong burst ) will TOTALLY neutralize it, hell you’ll even gain LF: the mitigation doesn’t come from protection, but from LF generation with Spectral armor on.

Go to helseth/symbolic twitch stream, they’ll show you how broken it is ( i’ve tried it with spectral walk too, you can do it at 50% lifeforce and still being in DS after the burst).

This on top of protection given.

kailin.4905:

The worst thing is necros right now are almost forced to trait for burst condi’s because not much else is as viable. We don’t have the DD burst to run straight power. Don’t get me wrong, power is ok and we have some skills that do decent DD but nothing in the realm of 17k backstabs, 20K 100 blades, ofr mesmer shatters. Couple that with the nerfs to DS and LF generation that countered most of the survability buff to DS and LF generation in the previous patch and if you try to go DDvsDD your usually going to lose. Non burst condi was always what I personally wanted in a necro but thats not really all that good either because like I originally said we don’t have the sustain/escape to get them ticking and live long enough for them to work. For those that don’t know condi builds don’t generate LF that fast to use DS a lot. So the only thing left is burst conditions… Load up the target fast and hope they die before you get cc’d and focused down. I don’t like it either but if that gets lowered we need to get buffs in sustain to make conditions able to be used.

i’m sorry but it’s absolutely not true, and this misconception about necro survivability should really be understood fast by the necro community instead of going into any thread talking about the meta in order to defend the class.

I play a necro from beta ( not as a main, but whatever) and its survivability, now that burst has been SIGNIFICANTLY toned down, has skyrocketed.

The nerf to DS damage going into health pool is irrilevant due to DS now working properly against damage, if you build with at least 20 in soul reaping and bring AT LEAST 1 defensive spctral ( plus the automatic spectral armor every 60 secs) you’re drowning into life force.

30-20-0-0-20 meta build has ALL in a single build: grat LF generation, great tankability ( don’t forget Plague) and ridicolous amount of condition further increased by spirit rangers.

Activating spectral armor ang oing into DS will actually make you absorb a full Ele burst combo AND GAIN LIFE FORCE MEANWHILE instead of dropping like a fly ( this if nightmare rune’s proc doesn’t screw the whole combo).

WIth weakness on DS + OH dagger you can withstand against 2 opponents for quite a while if you have all your CDs.

Necro survivability is FINE currently, if nothing we should test how it goes if they totally remove dhuumfire or replace it with a non-damaging condi.

kailin.4905:

Everyone hating on necros but nobody remembers we didn’t ask for more offense . The necro community wanted more sustain and/or a viable disengage or invulnerably, which I might add every other class in the game has. We were fine with our damage, at least conditions wise, but just wanted a way to not get focused down every time before our conditions did any damage.

necro never needed a way to disangage or invulnerability, it only needed more sustain ( and now you have it, via improved death shroud).

A necro needed a way to cover damaging conditions, it was NOT FINE dps wise and couldn’t stand with ele -guard-ranger condi removal.

without burning, a necro could still need a bit more of dps, but burning on top of 10 stacks of bleeds+ poison+ torment is too much.

and having it on passive procs ( with no possible recognization, automated) gives you no possible counterplay: just the same with engi and sun spirit procs.

Lordrosicky.5813:

However, dont forget how this necro buff came about. necro was not great pre patch. But it wasnt because necro sucked. It was because other classes had OP stuff. Mainly a necro couldnt load enough conditions onto a target to cope with the OP condition removal that is given to ele, guardian and ranger. You couldnt touch a ranger 1 on 1 because you only really had 3 conditions and all those disappeared to the PASSIVE and no skill emphatic bond before they can do anything. Otherwise you also had healing spring. Ele condi removal is also over the top with alot of synergy. And guardian shouts with the runes was absolutly ridicoulous condition removal. Espicially with removal on virute and renwed virtues elite. Again a necro couldnt touch a bunker guardian pre patch.

So what did they do? Instead of nerfing all this condition removal they mega buffed necro so you now win by just SPAMMING all your conditions to overwhelm these insane condition removals. That is terrible design and not fun.

So then what? Well they decided to buff loads of other condition removal like mesmer null field or berserker stance (to differing degrees) to match the necro. Now if they nerf conditions then conditions will be even worse than before the necro patch. And still based on spam. because condi removal is so strong. Especially condi removal which can be traited for and so does not effect the skills a player uses really.

Seriously, I suggest giving up on this game. I promise you they will continue their “create builds” approach. Which basically means making more and more stuff ridiculously OP and without counter play (i.e. berserker stance change and the necro changes). Instead they should be nerfing everything more or less. And there is a large difference. The change in balance between classes mite be the same by buffing or nerfing everything. But the game dynamics by making everything amazing and OP can only be lame.

So yeh. They now cannot remove dhumfire. It is all necros have. Necros have to spam to win. But if they remove it then they wont be able to spam as well and so they wont win. Literally there are about 30 skills and traits I can think of which need to be nerfed to reduce the spam and make the game fun. And also AI needs to be a pve mechanic or something which has a low power cap due to be easy to play (spirt spam rangers)

What necro needed was a way to COVER damaging conditions, not another source of OP condi like burning on long duration.

On engis it’s more balanced due to melee nature of the engi in order to be fully effective ( unless you play NA way, but that build has other weak spots so it’s also balanced, still i believe engi is one of the strongest classes).

Dhumfire could have been " dhuum freeze", you would have seen the same “necro boom” simply because a necro now had more ways to cover their damaging conditions with another condi.

I believe that more access to torment spread on other weaponsets and making dhuumfire stuff like " dhuumchill" or “dhuumweakness” and making it some sort of “buff” ( so you know that our next 3 attacks will cause “chill” for 1 sec and showing how many charges are left, just like sharpened edges or thief venoms) would solve the issue regarding necro spamming.

Same with sun spirit. Same with engi burning.

2-3 attacks that will apply burning/chill/whatever for 1 sec each and giving you a “buff” in order to show your opponent that his following attacks will cause this and that.

You have now counterplay available. You can dodge the bad stuff, those effects are overall reduced ( since 40% of a 4 sec burning gives you another 2 ticks of burning, while 40% if 1 sec burning x4 would give you no additional ticks unless you stack condi duration like mad and go beyond 70% condi duration).

I agree with you, berserker stance has no counter, it should be like endure pain on a 6 secs duration ( wars are built that way after all, with hard counters like zerk stance and endure pain, it’s their design).

Necro burn is NOT all they have: now they have torment ( which should be more present in the proff, instead of dumb burning), improved survivability and improved fear; burning is NOT necessary as long as you can cover your bleeds and keep your target feared and CC’ed.

A necro needed a decoy condition, and chill could fill the theme perfectly.
Add this to torment and enhanced fear/survivability and i really don’t see the point in giving burning to necros.

Again, fixing spamming by giving counterplay and reducing effect of passive dmg boosts is all we need to fix the meta, there’s no need to exaggerate like this.

Burst meta was even more broken, it was ridicolous that a D/D thief could instagib you in 1 sec neat if you didn’t have your stunbreak available ( and i really don’t want to think at what they did to fix this, it makes my heart cry every time i remember it).

DevO.9854:

Mrbig.8019:

DevO.9854:

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

lol try to play a power ranger without Empathetic bond ( or even with it) then come back here and say it again

That makes no sense, what is difficult about playing a power ranger? Playing a build that is not smart and not viable and not doing well, does not mean its hard to play.
Please inform me of what difficult combonation of skills you use, which makes it hard to play?

Also the same thing could be said about Spirit ranger, play a spirit ranger without any armour on, you will lose, but its not any harder to play it.

lol wot

if you can land a well tought hilt bash with GS, specced with moment of clarity, you can hit maul for 8k

Moment of clarity builds are all about interrupts at the right time in order to do damage ( something ridicolously difficult, and ithout the right trade off), including point blank shot.

You need to time your “burst” ( sword 1 spam with haste, something now it’s even harder due to anet smart balance on the BM tree), cripple in order to make your damage to land, time your skills, immobilize and kite perfectly just to do mediocre damage at best.

yet you can beat almost everyone, but are absolutely NOT VIABLE due to the OP AoE spam currently the meta is filled of ( and needs in order to be viable).

what you’re saying is basically " why should i play something which actually requires skill instead of going full faceroll ? ".

It’s the same with D/P thieves: mediocre at best when compared with S/D, but require TONS more skill to be played.

eles are hard to play, warriors WERE hard to play, burst thieves are hard to play, mesmer is hard to play, necros WERE hard to play.

Now aforementioned classes cannot be played due to faceroll builds ( aside war and necro), but could be used and played at high level.

DevO.9854:

Also spirits or not ranger is easy to play, the class would need a complete redo to be made “more difficult to play” I would rather things just be changed a bit I’m fine with alittle more difficult, but as a more or less casual player I’m pretty happy that I can be competitive by being smart.

Also as a Ranger player it took me 5 minutes to learn Necro and Warrior.

lol try to play a power ranger without Empathetic bond ( or even with it) then come back here and say it again

Zeon.8239:

That metaphor isn’t really accurate because there’s no sacrifice implemented.

The statement’s more like, brick houses are better than straw houses because they don’t get wrecked by the smallest disturbances, but they both get the job done in terms of shelter.

Honestly, condition damage would not be a problem if condition builds had to sacrifice the amount of defense that burst builds do. Necromancers literally can be up to 2-3 times tankier than a burst build light armor class, but still burst for approximately the same or more DPS with conditions, while extremely limiting your mobility via chill and fear chains. It just doesn’t make sense.

sigh, this is the problem: people don’t understabd this game at all

the problem is NOT how tanky condi builds are ( pre- patch a mesmer, thief and ele could EASILY withstand the pressure of condi proffs, unless we are talking about bomb engis in melee, then it was their fault for overextending), the problem is CONDITION STACKING (or rather condi spam): too many condition that you’re not even able to know WHEN to cleanse amd and WHAT you should cleanse, in th end it doesn’t even matter since the same stuff will be thrown again in few seconds by random, uncounterable, procs ( burning, the most powerful condition in the game, ON A RANDOM AND UNCOUNTERABLE PROC, WTF ANET).

condis are bursting because you can’t cleanse them effectively due to procs, which promote spamming and give you no counterplay.

A mesmer with null field COULD CONSISTENTLY DEFEAT a spirit ranger as long as he knew when burning will be applied ( dodging subsequently), same for eles ( even if I believe there are effective ele builds which can be played, but ele players are too sturdy and absolutely feel the need for those 30 points in arcana).

The condition meta is totally caused by spamming and spamming is totally caused by passive procs.

fix this and gw2 will be skillbased again

People are seriously overreacting.

It seems they’ve forgotten how conditions were pre-june patch.

Engi is balanced ( too stronk to be fair, but mostly due to its utility, not its damage)

Spirit ranger are faceroll but not broken ( stronk, but counterable , the only broken thing is spirit ress)

Necros are meta-ruling ( they’re defining the meta, and mostly due to them having TOO MANY conditions, at range, with easy access [proc ] unlike engis who needs melee to be fully effective)

The solution is way simple: dhuumfire needs to go, and they shouldn’t even replace it with torment, it needs to go LITERALLY ( because it creates too much condi stacking).

Burning on proc needs to be NERFED HARD, like dhuumfire was, both incendiary powder and sun spirit, and it should become something you can DODGE so you can react to it ( more on the line of " next 2-3 attacks will cause 1 sec of burning" buff, so your opponent can look at the buff and dodge the kittening burning)

The meta has been fixed, enjoy.

+1

That’s something i’ve also said ( and correlete with) in the past

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/In-Gw2-you-can-t-tell-if-you-re-improving/first#post2558894

Unless you’re “magically pro”, this game gives no clue about how it should be played, or how to get better.

zone.1073:

Glassy berserker amulet is gone and a thing of the past. Tanky as kitten is the new fashion now, and a couple of tanky warrior builds are becoming popular in arenas.

Stunlock warriors are strong and viable competitively. In team fights they have the freedom to overextend and survive, and be able to pressure single targets well. The CC support they offer is useful in many team comps. At the very least, these warriors now meet the bare minimum requirement to be viable: having map presence. That’s a start.

Another interesting path that has not become mainstream yet is the tanky condition route. This is the build I have been experimenting and refining with for a few months now. Why Healing Signet? Before the patch, the signet healed one pulse every 3 seconds. Now it heals every second, which is a 300% increase in healing output. It now heals more than a max adrenaline Healing Surge over 30 seconds. Why banner? The banner fills up everything that the build is lacking and more: it gives damage, mobility (low CD dash and perma swiftness without having to use Signet of Rage), strong healing through perma regen, and AoE team support. Each bonus from the two rune sets and leeching sigils heal for ~1000 HP each, which compliments the build’s “forever-healing” theme nicely (think: GW1’s Monk).

Thoughts on warrior’s viability in competitive pvp? Please keep feedback on topic with non-hot-join pvp, so only arenas.

Till i was still playing ( 1 day pre last patch) i still used to run a zerker stunlock war.

0-10-30-0-30 with mace/shield and hammer

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNApeSjcOxwpQ2Q4wBE0jvoK4iTBlQ9YO2w4A-TkAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNgA ( paralyzation sigils on both weapons).

cleansing ire+ zerker stance+ triple stances + 25% duration on stances: unstoppable beast, with one of the best condi removal/resistance in game, good suppport via banner rest and probably one of the strongest 1vs1 proffs, literally DEMOLISHING spirit rangers and engineers and necros.

With 25% moar damage on hammer, hammer deals MORE DAMAGE than GS by a long shot ( even auto-attack chain has better dps than 100 blades), and you have also good mobility via Earthshacker + warrior sprint.

Imho war is near A tier currently, the only issue is it’s still diffiult to find a “proper” role to the warrior: you need to build a very different comp than usual, and it’s still difficult to do it.

But it’s absolutely viable, i would say very powerful.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Allie Murdock.8152:

So, it will take a little time for Solo/Team Arena to normalize. Adding Solo Arena to the game is a huge step, and it no doubt has made a ripple in GW2 PvP history.

Just give it a little time. Solo Arena has only been out for 2 days.

So doomsday!

Yeh. People will get bored of it and team queue will flourish again. Then a happy medium will be reached. That is my prediction.

why should they stop solo queing ?

rewards are pretty much the same, you have no obligation toward your “eventual” team, there’s no drama between your guild members regarding who should play and who not ( it’s always hard to say to a friend of yours that you don’t want to play with him because “kitten is better than you”), no need to plan your strategy, no stress regarding strategy building etc. etc.

During paid tournament times, solos were actually “forced” to have a group before going in tourneis, otherwise they would only get farmed by premades: now it’s not the case, you can have fun anytime.

This game doesn’t support teams at all.

I can’t play currently ( and won’t be able for a while) but i would ONLY do solo queue if i had the time, because currently you’re absolutely NOT pushed toward playing as a team instead of going solo, and i have absolutely no interest in climbing team leaderboard, even if i am in it and should feel the “desire” to face better opponents.

Now that we have a solo queue, the issue about rewards will be clearer than ever

Narcarsis.5739:

I think people overrate S/D thief.

just putting it out there ( i know this thread is not meant for discussion).

they’re not ovverating it, S/D thieves are A+ tier in THIS meta.

Lot of condi cleansing, great sustained damage, great healing capabilities, able to go in & out of combat, decent burst, AoE stealth.

Especially the first one.

Even more, they’re a lot stronger than other thief builds ( due to reason 1) and are able to deal with them pretty easily ( just swap to shortbow and spam disabling shot, it’s sad how this is accurate).

It’s superior to any other thief build, it’s strong 1vs1, it’s a good counter to current dominant classes ( one of the few classes able to 1vs1 a spirit ranger, necro and engi).

They’re not overrating it, S/D thieves are very strong, and very easy to play ( the only thing you REALLY need to learn is positioning, but with older D/P builds you also had to know how to play).

I’m an S/D thief ( from beta, with a small past as a D/P thief due to to november nerfs) and i’m saying this.

We need buffs and nerfs regarding the whole ini ssytem and sub-par skills, otherwise S/D will be the one and only build to rule them all for a long time.

voice chat needed.

Altough i agree with you, there would be too much to say and keybinds are not enough.

Maybe i’m a necro and i’m fighting against 2 guys ( thief+ranger) so i would write “c2 t r” but how can they know if i can last ?

Maybe i’ve all my CDs + plague so i can facetank them for a good 30 secs , maybe i’ve nothing and they’ll destroy me in 3-4 secs: there’s no way to tell.

With solo que, we ABSOLUTELY need voice chat.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I really think the onus here should always be on the player. Are we really at a point in gamer society where we cannot handle working on getting better at a game without becoming frustrated and just quitting? If so, that’s really, really sad. Considering the popularity of games like DOTA 2 though, I don’t really think that’s the case.

If anything, a game needs to be designed in such a way that the players can blame each other for failure instead of the game itself. I’m just not exactly sure how to create that sort of situation. I think the game needs more mechanics than just an arena-based fight to achieve such a thing.

Dota games ( LoL is a very good example) show you how to play.

They recreate fake games with bots at the beginning in order to make you understand the basis of what do to do, they have a cohomprensive guide to show you how to build your character etc. etc.

Game strategies can be settled in game due to a much slower pace, and very commonly the very character you pick already has a prefixed role it’s very difficult to play distantly from.

In GW2 you most of the time have no idea what to do, especially with hybrid classes ( tanky engies, rangers, necros) since you don’t really know what fight you should join, since it’s difficult to evaluate a win/lose situation ( join the 1vs1 at mid where both guardians are fighting OR join close fight where you’re 2vs3 and you don’t know if they’ll be still alive till you come in ? winning close fight could be game changing, but you could also be stomped hard ).

There’re are no cues about this, evaluation is very difficult in this game, and its extremely fast pace complicates everything too much.

They should really find a way to teach players IN GAME, and we need a system rework in order to do this.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Most games worth learning are actually very difficult to learn properly. What sort of competitive game are you thinking of that’s easy to learn how to do properly that also has a high player base?

i’m not against hard games, i’m just saying the “game itself” gives you no advice about what you should do and what not.

Deathmatch games ( for example) are much simplier and there’re ways to tell if you’re doing wrong ( if you’re going down too fast, if you’re not doing enough damage, if your healing is bad, if your healer is not able to endure the pressure etc. etc.) .

In gw2 this is simply not the case.

Rerroll.9083:

soloq will fix this, if it pops often and the teams are balanced

I fear solo q will just teach bad habits again, like they’re doing with hotjoin.

Without communication you can’t really understand what went wrong, you have really no idea if you contributed to the team ( stuff like " hey i was decapping their point so many times, why are we losing" = thief went far staying there 1vs1 the engi the whole match, removing mobility and instagibs+ poison, instead of going only when the team fight was already in your favour OR when you know your mates can last till you go back).

This happens EVEN in team with TeamSpeak: people believing they’re doing something useful while they’re just being detrimental.

This goes beyond learning to play, this is a problem about the system: this game is VERY complicated, and without a way to learn which fights you should join, when to disangage and stuff, it’s very difficult for a newcomer to understand if he’s doing well.

This is probably going to be a moot point, but someone needs to put up the basis.

In this game, there’s really no way to understand if you’re improving, if you’re getting better, if your build is good and if you’re doing something useful for the team.

End game stats don’t show if you really contributed to the team, there’s no way to discern if it was “better” to stay in team fight or going far taking the point as a freecap then fighting 1vs1 to hold the node contested ( meanwhile your team could lose the team fight at mid).

This game is basically all about communication, and as it is now, there’s very little room for the player to improve ( or understanding if he’s doing something wrong).

How can an engi player understand ( accounting he’s close point defender) to go mid for a push ? what if going to mid allows you to win the team fight BUT let the opponent thief get close, still ending in a 2 vs 1 cap ?

The learning curve is very steep, and this game provides little to no info ( and little to no help, neither a guide) to learn how to play your class, and learn rotations with it.

A newbie will easily be unsatisfied, and leave.

I still see tons of “rank 40-50” doing bad, running with bad/unoptimized builds losing time in scrims outside the point following an opponent just to get stomped by their ally who came off their point, not following targeted enemy ( maybe believing they’re "distracting their teammates allowing you to dps him) and leaving combat where they really should stay, most of the time just to go neuting another point ( meanwhile opposing teams win the team fight, stomped you all, got 10-15 points from stomps PLUS the point capped, then going to the neuted point facerolling the one who was fighting 1vs1 and taking that point too ).

This needs to stop, and sadly we can’t even say “L2P” because there’s really no way to learn the game properly, if you’re alone.

If the only way to learn the game is to get a team and get facerolled 200 times by better teams till you realize what is wrong, don’t question if tPvP has such a small playerbase.

Blimm.5028:

Rerroll, elementalist was overnerfed on the bunker side. But his burst is unmatched. Just reduce condition spam a little and ele will be top notch again.
And even with the condi spam. Im learning to duel condition professions right now with my glass ele. I frequently beat them. Tho I need to be a lot better then them skillwise it is possible. If it cheers you up I can put up some YT video of me instagibbing some rangers/thiefs/necros :P

The bunker nerf affected LOT MORE dps eles than bunker eles: bunker eles are still “somehow” strong ( not strong as other bunkers but well..) but sustained damage builds got totally demolished, forcing eles to go full dps with no stunbreak ( i even question the choice to go valk at this point).

I had to laugh when a friend of mine said to one guildy who wanted to learn the ele and he said “don’t worry, i’ll give you the macro and you’ll be fine”, because that’s what eles currently are.

Sadly the ele is that kind of class that if you give it too much they become gods of everything ( just like engi currently) so i have literally no idea what to do with it.

Zenith.7301:

Pop thieves’ guild, burn down necro.

Or get on the bandwagon and faceroll with s/d.

MrBig just doesn’t want to take points in shadow arts for condi removal.

I’m an S/D thief, i can easily win a necro 1vs1

I’m talking about D/P.

Amaterasu.6280:

Mrbig.8019:

Archer Henchman.2534:

Mrbig.8019:

Blackjack.5621:

Jasher.6580:

With the shift in the meta, having a Mesmer on your team flat out gimps you in competitive play. How can we fix this?

They just can´t compete with necro and evade thief, that´s all. The problem is not the mesmer tho.

To be honest is the necro the one who brought the thief to “opness” state.

Pre- necro horror, an evade thief was a strong build but nothing else, now it’s basically the only power build capable to go 1vs1 a necro without insta dying ( while even having a chance to win) and the only power build capable to attain mobility, disangage, 1vs1 and AoE in a single build, all packed with good condi cleansing ( signet, shadow return, lyssa runes).

It just fits the meta perfectly, but it’s not thief fault if the meta is this way.

If necro gets nerfed, S/D thief will still be strong but not “as strong” as it is now.

You can consistently beat any necro build with a D/P setup 1v1 reliably. You will, however, get your kitten demolished in team fights because you can’t deal with the CC and cleave from 3 other players.

Absolutely disagree.

A necro just needs to have its Enfeebling blood ( that is also automatically cast when he goes into death shroud) to connect and it’s GG against a thief who can’t remove 13 secs of weakness from itself unless he uses shadowstep.

A necro can just sit into its spectral wall and ontop of weakness, the necro will have protection AND the thief will be feared.

a D/P thief has no chance to beat a somehow competent necro: this is not the case of an S/D thief.

That’s kinda a l2p issue…You should learn to react to the DS enfeebling blood…its got a slight delay after the DS and it comes down in a swarm of flies…you can see it coming and just dodge. Once you pay attention to dodging the initial DS weakness, you’re in a much better place 1v1ing a necro.

It’s a 60/40 win in my opinion as long as you have all your CDs up and play aggressively. If you let the necro breathe, you’re done.

That’s the point.

you’re at a disdvantage in the best case scenario, if you made A SINGLE MISTAKE you’re done for, and this of course not accounting the opponent ( he may cleanse the first blind by spamming life blast THEN use fear + all the kitten) or using enfeebling blood ( dagger) on itself as soon as you’re autoattacking, in order to force dodge and then going into DS for the second.

Marks on itself and GG.

I would say it’s a 70-30 in the best case scenario.

I even made it killing 2 thieves at the same place, simply because i random dodged their burst.

C’mon, it’s obviously not a balanced fight.

they’re even bugged, lol

the set is absolutely fine.

Xsorus.2507:

prozon.3561:

Xeph.4513:

prozon.3561:

Xeph.4513:

prozon.3has 561:

Its no secret that anet want tp on the pax, so relax guys. Takse a look at the past tp was a long time dominating the competetive sczene. The most popluar team outside and also most constantly one. In my opinion its fair send them the Tickets. But i never will get confirm with their abuse play. But this happens to you cc guys also. Hard prefered of anets brainless patching.

Yes because we didn’t win those matches with our own effort, its disgusting the attitude some people bring; regardless if Arenanet wanted us there or not, we had to get there with our own efforts as a team, which we did accomplish, you may spread rumours as you like our accomplishments speak for themselves.

They do. Sure. Just confirmed the best team won. It has norhing to do with rumours, just a analyze of the past month. Casual players never be able to get sth even some ontop one wont get it. I wont put tp on a bad shot, only thing is i cant say ur winning by playing the best there are other reassons pushing your success also

Please inform my daft mind regarding what phantom force is pushing us to win.
I am entranced to find out what conspiracy theory that your going to come up with.

Rly? Serious? You are playing op kitten by months… what was tp before anet decided to make the engi the most broken class in the game? What was tp before anet decided to make the ranger the unbeatable 1v1 monster? Ye right one of many other good teams but not this one man show since april. You seriously think you guys are winning all by best playing? Cmon…..

Ehh, I created the unbeatable 1v1 monster Ranger Spec

It was possible since the beginning of the game to run this type of spec in SPvP as the amulet existed, It wasn’t possible in WvW as the armor wasn’t added later on.

But Anet didn’t “add” anything…

They’ve only made that spec weaker over time.

Infact spirit ranger was RIDICOLOUS in beta, when GS also had very strong damage and ranger had easy acces to quickness ( lol at 1 quickness GS spam killing whole teams LOLOLOL).

They just re-made some traits, any theorycrafter would came up with such build.

Zoutsha.1093:

Mrbig.8019:

Zoutsha.1093:

Mrbig.8019:

Zoutsha.1093:

The problem with that bo5 thing is that there are big differences between the maps. I dont know if u realized but with our comp there was no way to win on foefire. In bo5 TP had to win 1x niflhel or khylo and it was over. Before our second match on niflhel i told my team that we need to win this although it was 2:1 for CC cause i knew we gonna loose foefire again. We didnt complain cause after winnig good teams with 2 nec on foefire we felt confident to win TP aswell (big mistake) and after lossing our first match on foefire it was too late to say “öhhhhm guys we dont want to play bo5 anymore”. Thats why super and posi are complaning. No one tried to turn the final into TP favor but unfortunately for us it happend.

it doesn’t change the fact you had another chance to win back in nifhel, when TP lost very often.

You were 2-1, in nifhel ( again, that silly map when TP loses so much and you win so much) you had a chance to go 3-1 and close the match.

Yet you lost, that was your fault.

You agreed playing Bo5 by pressing ready and playing it, chances were fair for both teams ( at least regarding Bo5 scenario), the only “unfair” thing was CC had to play for 5 hours while TP was fresh and clean.

THIS is the real matter and the one you should complain about, because it’s simply not fair.

Altough, tbh, it also happens it soccer tournaments like Fifa World Cup, when the first ones playing semi-finals have 1 more day to rest than the the second ones.

Ofc this tournament had no need for this to happen, they could have easily put your semi-finals tomorrow, and there would not be any problem.

I can feel ya.

Great match anyway, CC is a great team, don’t be such kittens.

dude im not complaining. I would say niflhel is 60%:40% for CC, Foefire is 90% for TP khylo is 50%:50% so bo3 is actually not bad for CC. Best of 5 turns everything cause we couldnt win foefire and TP had a chance to win Niflhel or Khylo. Our second match on Niflhel was very good we won the first teamfight and had 2 points and then TP killed our thief offpoint and Teldo won a 2v1 on far. 2 mistakes and we lost the game. You cant compare that to foefire we couldve stayed in our base cause there was no chance. Im sure we wouldve lost a best of 9 vs NN aswell cause their advantage on foefire is bigger than CCs on niflhel.
TP deserved to win they played amazing im not question that at all.

I just can’t get it.

Bo5 doesn’t change anything, since you have 2 equal scenarios

Bo3

Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins
Khylo -> fair

Solution

In a Bo3 scenario, you need to win nifhel, since you know you’re going to lose on foefire.

Everything will be settled on Khylo ( which is a fair map)

Bo5

Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins
Khylo -> fair
Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins

Solution

In this scenario, everything is AGAIN settled on Khylo.
According to statistics ( those ones you said), you’ll lose in Foefire in any case, so the best is to win both Nifhel ( something you should, since you have a slight advantage).

If you win Khylo, and win both Nifhel ( the map where you are favoured), TP has not even a chance to go back to Foefire, and you “ON PAPER” win easily.

Again, eveything is settled on Khylo.

If anything, winning on Khylo should have given you an advantage.

There’s absolutely nothing different in a Bo3 when compared to a Bo5, the only issue , as i said before, is that you were EXTREMELY TIRED due to 5 hours of playing, compared to TP whose were fresh and clean.

Nothing else ( not that it doesn’t matter, it’s a very HUGE issue, but absolutely not the issue you’re referring about).

We lost on niflhel although we played good thats the difference. Niflhel is not a free win for us like foefire is for TP and since everyone is doing mistakes from time to time its was just a matter of time for TP to win niflhel and the whole final.

You said it, everyone can do mistakes.

Imo, one of those reasons why you did mistakes in the second nifhel is because you were tired ( you can deny it, but it’s a fact).

This is baffling in my opinion, no one should face a fresh team after a session of 5 hours, it’s like if in a fighting demonstration your opponent comes after a quick workout while you’ve been under a training session of 3 hours ( it happened to me in real life, i can feel ya ) and you got demolished because you were so tired you were not even able to rise a leg for a mid-kick.

That’s how i see it.

Again, if you played correctly in nifhel and won khylo ( as you did) you could easily win TP: the odds were in your favour.

Zoutsha.1093:

Mrbig.8019:

Zoutsha.1093:

The problem with that bo5 thing is that there are big differences between the maps. I dont know if u realized but with our comp there was no way to win on foefire. In bo5 TP had to win 1x niflhel or khylo and it was over. Before our second match on niflhel i told my team that we need to win this although it was 2:1 for CC cause i knew we gonna loose foefire again. We didnt complain cause after winnig good teams with 2 nec on foefire we felt confident to win TP aswell (big mistake) and after lossing our first match on foefire it was too late to say “öhhhhm guys we dont want to play bo5 anymore”. Thats why super and posi are complaning. No one tried to turn the final into TP favor but unfortunately for us it happend.

it doesn’t change the fact you had another chance to win back in nifhel, when TP lost very often.

You were 2-1, in nifhel ( again, that silly map when TP loses so much and you win so much) you had a chance to go 3-1 and close the match.

Yet you lost, that was your fault.

You agreed playing Bo5 by pressing ready and playing it, chances were fair for both teams ( at least regarding Bo5 scenario), the only “unfair” thing was CC had to play for 5 hours while TP was fresh and clean.

THIS is the real matter and the one you should complain about, because it’s simply not fair.

Altough, tbh, it also happens it soccer tournaments like Fifa World Cup, when the first ones playing semi-finals have 1 more day to rest than the the second ones.

Ofc this tournament had no need for this to happen, they could have easily put your semi-finals tomorrow, and there would not be any problem.

I can feel ya.

Great match anyway, CC is a great team, don’t be such kittens.

dude im not complaining. I would say niflhel is 60%:40% for CC, Foefire is 90% for TP khylo is 50%:50% so bo3 is actually not bad for CC. Best of 5 turns everything cause we couldnt win foefire and TP had a chance to win Niflhel or Khylo. Our second match on Niflhel was very good we won the first teamfight and had 2 points and then TP killed our thief offpoint and Teldo won a 2v1 on far. 2 mistakes and we lost the game. You cant compare that to foefire we couldve stayed in our base cause there was no chance. Im sure we wouldve lost a best of 9 vs NN aswell cause their advantage on foefire is bigger than CCs on niflhel.
TP deserved to win they played amazing im not question that at all.

I just can’t get it.

Bo5 doesn’t change anything, since you have 2 equal scenarios

Bo3

Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins
Khylo -> fair

Solution

In a Bo3 scenario, you need to win nifhel, since you know you’re going to lose on foefire.

Everything will be settled on Khylo ( which is a fair map)

Bo5

Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins
Khylo -> fair
Nifhel -> CC advantage ( slightly)
Foefire -> TP wins

Solution

In this scenario, everything is AGAIN settled on Khylo.
According to statistics ( those ones you said), you’ll lose in Foefire in any case, so the best is to win both Nifhel ( something you should, since you have a slight advantage).

If you win Khylo, and win both Nifhel ( the map where you are favoured), TP has not even a chance to go back to Foefire, and you “ON PAPER” win easily.

Again, eveything is settled on Khylo.

If anything, winning on Khylo should have given you an advantage.

There’s absolutely nothing different in a Bo3 when compared to a Bo5, the only issue , as i said before, is that you could have been tired due to 5 hours of playing, compared to TP whose were fresh and clean ( and you can say you weren’t, but OF COURSE you were).

Nothing else ( not that it doesn’t matter, it’s a very HUGE issue, but absolutely not the issue you’re referring about).

Zoutsha.1093:

The problem with that bo5 thing is that there are big differences between the maps. I dont know if u realized but with our comp there was no way to win on foefire. In bo5 TP had to win 1x niflhel or khylo and it was over. Before our second match on niflhel i told my team that we need to win this although it was 2:1 for CC cause i knew we gonna loose foefire again. We didnt complain cause after winnig good teams with 2 nec on foefire we felt confident to win TP aswell (big mistake) and after lossing our first match on foefire it was too late to say “öhhhhm guys we dont want to play bo5 anymore”. Thats why super and posi are complaning. No one tried to turn the final into TP favor but unfortunately for us it happend.

it doesn’t change the fact you had another chance to win back in nifhel, when TP lost very often.

You were 2-1, in nifhel ( again, that silly map when TP loses so much and you win so much) you had a chance to go 3-1 and close the match.

Yet you lost, that was your fault.

You agreed playing Bo5 by pressing ready and playing it, chances were fair for both teams ( at least regarding Bo5 scenario), the only “unfair” thing was CC had to play for 5 hours while TP was fresh and clean.

THIS is the real matter and the one you should complain about, because it’s simply not fair.

Altough, tbh, it also happens it soccer tournaments like Fifa World Cup, when the first ones playing semi-finals have 1 more day to rest than the the second ones ( regarding finals).

Ofc this tournament had no need for this to happen, they could have easily put your semi-finals tomorrow, and there would not be any problem.

I can feel ya.

Great match anyway, CC is a great team, don’t be such kittens.

Arganthium.5638:

jportell.2197:

Tier S

Thief S/D only Larcenous strike. For the utility of it and being unblockable the damage is a little on the insane side. A person with 3500 armor taking 4k damage from this is and losing all of their defensive boons is ridiculous. Damage reduction or making LS blockable would be a nice start. Or reduce the amount of time the thief has between using flanking strike and LS or interrupting FS makes it so they have to do FS over to get to the LS part of the chain.

This is a nice Halloween story with no basis in reality whatsoever.

LS doesn’t have a high enough coefficient to hit 4k whenever you use it, unless the thief is running so glassy that you’ll be able to 1-shot him or her anyways. It’d be like giving a guardian maximum offensive stats, seeing him do damage, then setting that to the standard for all guards (even bunkers) and thereby calling guards OP. If you don’t believe me, I can even do the calculations for you; I doubt that you understand the slightest inkling of the mathematics behind this game.

The time you already get to be able to use LS is very short- 5 seconds, which is extremely short when you pretty much have to be right on top of your opponent to use this skill, and even shorter when delaying, as a zerker thief, could very well get you killed.

If FS was interruptible, it would be rendered almost useless. It’d defeat the purpose of its being an evade entirely. Anyhow, FS hardly deals any damage (less than either of the first two attacks in the auto chain), so all you have to do to counter it is simply start attacking while your opponent is using FS, and the two cast times should occur close enough to one another in order for you to get the hit. This is how I’ve fought against many other S/D thieves, and I’ve had great success with it. You can afford to get hit by FS. LS is a different story, but it’s fairly telegraphed by thieves, and missing it can cause the majority of thieves absolute misery.

no need to be so defensive

An acro thief with 10 in DA can hit up LS for 4 k each ( even more on glass specs) as long as the opponent is below 50% health.

When not, it deals pretty much 3.5 k damage per hit, from 2.5 to 3 k on tanky builds.

FS→ LS chain is broken, too much rewards with little to no cost: you just need to use 3 of 5 skill of yours to be effective ( you can mix some C&D now or then, but whatever).

They should make the skill blockable, and seriously they should start reverting some of the brutal nerfs they did to the thief in the past, the class just feels too much dumbed down.

anyway….

S tier

= Necro
= spirit ranger

A tier

+ S/D thief
= Guardian
= Engi

B tier

+ Ele
+ War
= Mesmer

http://youtu.be/d2hRTLdvdnk

nuff said

i don’t even see the problem, necro still dishes out enormous damage and is a lto more tanky than before.

still op as kitten, but i can see the point in bashing devs for their " we don’t want whack a mole" when it’s exactly what they’re doing.

1 -> after using DS, you can’t use your u-skills/elite/heal skill for a good couple of seconds.

This is gamebreaking and often gets necro killed

2 -> while under signet of the wild effect ( with signet of the beastmaster) you can’t stomp.

This is gamebreaking and makes the whole skill useless

3 ->lyssa runes effects ( on heal, on elite usage) won’t work if you weapon swap meanwhile.

This is most probably caused by the delay between skill usage and lyssa effects: this is also gamebreaking and gets me killed on my thief fairly regularly.

Plsfixokthanks

Archer Henchman.2534:

Mrbig.8019:

Blackjack.5621:

Jasher.6580:

With the shift in the meta, having a Mesmer on your team flat out gimps you in competitive play. How can we fix this?

They just can´t compete with necro and evade thief, that´s all. The problem is not the mesmer tho.

To be honest is the necro the one who brought the thief to “opness” state.

Pre- necro horror, an evade thief was a strong build but nothing else, now it’s basically the only power build capable to go 1vs1 a necro without insta dying ( while even having a chance to win) and the only power build capable to attain mobility, disangage, 1vs1 and AoE in a single build, all packed with good condi cleansing ( signet, shadow return, lyssa runes).

It just fits the meta perfectly, but it’s not thief fault if the meta is this way.

If necro gets nerfed, S/D thief will still be strong but not “as strong” as it is now.

You can consistently beat any necro build with a D/P setup 1v1 reliably. You will, however, get your kitten demolished in team fights because you can’t deal with the CC and cleave from 3 other players.

Absolutely disagree.

A necro just needs to have its Enfeebling blood ( that is also automatically cast when he goes into death shroud) to connect and it’s GG against a thief who can’t remove 13 secs of weakness from itself unless he uses shadowstep.

A necro can just sit into its spectral wall and ontop of weakness, the necro will have protection AND the thief will be feared.

a D/P thief has no chance to beat a somehow competent necro: this is not the case of an S/D thief.

Blackjack.5621:

Jasher.6580:

With the shift in the meta, having a Mesmer on your team flat out gimps you in competitive play. How can we fix this?

They just can´t compete with necro and evade thief, that´s all. The problem is not the mesmer tho.

To be honest is the necro the one who brought the thief to “opness” state.

Pre- necro horror, an evade thief was a strong build but nothing else, now it’s basically the only power build capable to go 1vs1 a necro without insta dying ( while even having a chance to win) and the only power build capable to attain mobility, disangage, 1vs1 and AoE in a single build, all packed with good condi cleansing ( signet, shadow return, lyssa runes).

It just fits the meta perfectly, but it’s not thief fault if the meta is this way.

If necro gets nerfed, S/D thief will still be strong but not “as strong” as it is now.

Balance suggestions thrown out there at random…

1) burning on trait

We seem to forget eles have it too, but nobody uses it and nobody complains about it ( but..but…it’s like pre-nerf incendiary powder, according to the tooltip !!!!)

Wrong, it’s only 1 sec burning on crit.

PUFF, BALANCED.

2) S/D thieves

Yeah, it’s ridicolous. I play S/D thief myself, i know that in a teamfight it’s impossible to get rid of it.

It’s not OP, just too annoying and too strong snowballing low HP/defense classes.

Currently it seems gamebreaking simply because there’s too much AoE condi pressure.

The problem is regarding the skill floor being too low, but this is due to design flaws regarding the set.

You can’t nerf ini costs anymore, you need to rehaul other skills on OH dagger to be more rewarding and give FS→LS chain less.

they should really rise the skill floor of thieves, i can understand players frustrations, especially at the top.

3) AoE

AoE can’t be stronger than single target. Anet seriously needs to make single target DPS stronger than AoE, it’s ridicolous to have a ( for example) Grasping Dead potentially dealing 5x damage than Dark Path simply thanks to its AoE nature.

Enfeebling blood is another example: 10secs of weakness FOR THE ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM is ridicolous, a necro can totally shut down and destroy everything.

AoE has always been a problem and design flaw, now it’s really too much.

TRoopEr.5364:

Defektive.7283:

TRoopEr.5364:

Defektive.7283:

TRoopEr.5364:

Defektive.7283:

TRoopEr.5364:

I supported ANET everywhere BUT why you do such a poor orginisation that you make this :

Registration will open next week, for players that live in Canada, United States of America, Mexico, and European Union countries and are 18 years of age or older, so solidify your team and watch GuildWars2.com for more information about registration, rules, and eligibility requirements.

Realy? You don’t care about other customers? How the hell you could even make it a FIRST OFFICAL GW2 Tournament?!

I am not speaking about poor-prizes that is like mix of mistleague-anet-mmorpg.com,thats another story.

But letting people to participate only from particular contries? And you want this to be e-sports?

For the first tournament they officially sponsor as well as being a company, the regulations and restrictions regarding regions they have set forward are fairly common.

It’s extremely difficult to adhere to all laws from a number of areas across multiple countries. For an intro-tournament, it’s better to have that part of it go smoothly and test the waters.

Makes sense.

So yeah thats why dota ( the best expample of good e-sport) had no restriction for there first guest tournament, not speaking about prize.

Valve has a lot more experience hosting, supporting and sponsoring tournaments. I’m sure they’ve worked out all the legal tricks regarding this. ArenaNet is doing it fresh.

They’ll work it out, nothing happens perfectly the first time.

http://guildwars.com/competitive/pastseasons/default.php

LOW EXPERIANCE RLY?

Previous staff. A ton of GW1 staff now works for Riot. Notice how they are able to do these large tournaments consistently and successfully?

A lot of the GW2 staff is new to this, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt this first time around.

The major part is still gw1 stuff. And i personaly know it for example Iziah who was orginising the first GW tournament.

Isaiah is no more part of the PvP staff.

Otherwise you would have seen a lot more “smiter booning” here and there.

The PvP staff is REALLY new.

This is the first tournament, go easy on them.

If things will go well, you’re going to partecipate in the future.

I cannot partecipate due to vacations ( i don’t even have my PC there) because they put it in august, but i’m not raging ( i don’t even have a stable team, but that is another story).

Calm down.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Why is S/D thief even in the OP when this is clearly a engi discussion?

Because S/D thieves can beat a necro 1vs1.

S/D thieves → Necro

Necro is OP, so thief is even more OP.

Perfect reasoning.

LOLWOT.

Arheundel.6451:

Mrbig.8019:

LeGi.3921:

We just have to live with the constant nerfs while other classes get buffs over buffs. i got used to it and learned to work around those nerfs..

I would like to have some depths for the thiefclass. having 1 weaponset for every spec where you mostly bash 2-3 buttons + some utilitys isnt too much fun and probably the reason why everybody is whining about the class. mashing the right 2-3 buttons is pretty easy and vs not that experienced players it works just fine.

balance on a higher level of play is another story.

Thanks, really, thanks.

Sadly the vast majority of players will never hear what you said, and thieves will still be nerfed again and again .

You don’t want depth…you constantly complain about eles, where the player is forced to smash more than 2-3 buttons to obtain something and if the player does master that pattern , he’ll be considered OP and you’ll QQ on the forum, being forced in smashing more than 2-3 buttons should be rewarded..but apparently Anet , moved by the tears of these same people who “hate” the 2-3 button smash, will apply the longest CD and lowest dmg coefficients on the profession that require more time to master.

Dude you really have no idea about balance.

Just because a class requires “more skill” than another ( and i would seriouly question your idea about the ele requiring skill) it doesn’t mean it should perform “better” than other classes.

Ele pre nerfs were OP ( ridicolously OP), now they’re fine and i NEVER QQed about ele post nerfs.

On the other side thieves have never been OP in the first place, just unfun to play against: they were a realiable burst class, now eles are even better than thieves in that role.

Most of our sets ( aside D/P) have only 2-3 efficient skills, we have no way to support our team, we’re ridicolously unbalanced, our traits suck.

You have absolutely no idea about thieves and were they stand in the meta, you just want to cry about them.

Stop acting like a child.

LeGi.3921:

We just have to live with the constant nerfs while other classes get buffs over buffs. i got used to it and learned to work around those nerfs..

I would like to have some depths for the thiefclass. having 1 weaponset for every spec where you mostly bash 2-3 buttons + some utilitys isnt too much fun and probably the reason why everybody is whining about the class. mashing the right 2-3 buttons is pretty easy and vs not that experienced players it works just fine.

balance on a higher level of play is another story.

Thanks, really, thanks.

Sadly the vast majority of players will never hear what you said, and thieves will still be nerfed again and again .

ArcTheFallen.7682:

It has a 50s cooldown. If you do it right away after the 45 second cd on Basalisk, then it probably won’t work.

that’s not what he’s saying.

The issue a whole different kind.

@OP

You forgot weapon swapping: if you weapon swap after using your elite, you won’t get any boon( condi removal), same if you use your healing skill ( no boon either).

boumz.9851:

shadow trap works for me, i’m not sure if you are aware of the fact that shadowtrap has a range of 10 000?

I’m not sure if you are aware 10.000 range is about twice the range you need to travel the whole map.

Anyway it’s not the point, sometime it won’t work even from Keep to Henge and stop traveling after being stuck into a wall.

There are plenty of porting issues and they’re pretty well known in the community.

This is just an example http://www.twitch.tv/loljumper/c/2419557

Jesiah.2457:

^ So much gg wp in this thread already.

It’s justified.

I mean, c’mon, in almost every map 1/3 of times it won’t work due to z-axis issue.

I was trying some trick with the treb and it will miss half ( if not more) of the times.

It’s unreliable as hell and in tPvP it’s TERRIBLE when you miss you porting ( just think for a moment what would happen if your team entered a portal and was ported IN THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP instead of going to the point where the first portal was) .

MAKE IT WORK LIKE MESMER PORTAL end of the story.

Nerfing an ability that it’s not even working properly is ridicolous.

Just sayin’.

You’ve nerfed it and it doesn’t even work properly.

C’mon.

Shar.3402:

This map is awful and should be taken out of rotation right now.

It’s not awful, just crazy.

Too many jumps, weird pathing and dat 10k nuke really ruin it.

It would have been very fun if only was better thought out.

This map is crazy.

jump pads act weird, sometime when you charge to your foe with a charge skill you’ll be sent flying around, sometimes you’ll even go UNDER the panel and just fall down and die.

Ah, also DAT 10 K UNDODGEABLE NUKE.

Phaeton.9582:

Mrbig.8019:

That’s the same build i’m running, aside the fact i prefer bull rush instead of endure pain and warrior’s sprint instead of destruction of the empowered.

Personally i believe my build is better, especially since it’s hard to stick on targets with swiftness or if you’re chilled/crippled.

Bull rush on a 32 secs CD is a lot , and can be even used as a mobility tool.

It’s rather easy to 100-0 a target while full stunlocking him, ( @poster above) i would not disregard this build at all, imho this is tier A stuff.

Yeah can definitely see bulls rush being an asset for better roaming.. although have to say there are so many situations when that kick is so clutch.. especially with the root on staggering blow.

And i think the poster above is a troll.

Kick has an odd self root, just like shadow shot was for thieves.

I believe it’s not intended and as soon as people will find out how ridicolously strong CC wars are and aNet will start to see Kick animation some more, they’ll fix it like they did for old shadow shot.

P.S

when you hit for 4k with Kick , you really feel your duty as a war has been fulfilled.

That’s the same build i’m running, aside the fact i prefer bull rush instead of endure pain and warrior’s sprint instead of destruction of the empowered.

Personally i believe my build is better, especially since it’s hard to stick on targets with swiftness or if you’re chilled/crippled.

Bull rush on a 32 secs CD is a lot , and can be even used as a mobility tool.

It’s rather easy to 100-0 a target while full stunlocking him, ( @poster above) i would not disregard this build at all, imho this is tier A stuff.

Velron.3729:

Now with that first part out of the way, where I agree and see how strong that burn on crit traits are.

Strong condi remove professions can be literally impossible to bring down solo if you’re a full condi build. Even with all the burn on crit procs. Some guardians have so much removal it’s absolutely silly trying to bring one down without help.

Why do some of the professions have all the removal stacked so kitten them and easy to get? Necro just grabs consume, staff and dagger OH and they are not only set, but will kill you with your own condis. Guardians get tons of passive and active removal like no one else. Ranger – tons of passive removal and some 50% uptime condi removal field, etc

edit : the stacked so kitten on them is actually = stacked so kitten them.

The word h a r d is in itself censored? Out of control lol.

A necro can kill a guardian in 30 secs MAX.

If he brings corrupt boon ( something pretty unusua these days) even faster, as long as he times it after the second shout ( since all guardians run with double shout + sanctuary).

We have condi meta because the necro was overbuffed, because weakness was overbuffed, because protection has NEVER BEEN NERFED and it’s like the strongest and most OP stuff in the game, because Direct damage has been nerfed into the ground, because quickness has been nerfed into the ground, because condi damage has no way to be countered if not via condi cleanse ( and if you go condi cleanse, you lose damage).

We’re on the power creep road.

And as a thief, i’m really sad because right now we’re the most useless class in the game ( yeah, worse than warriors).