I admit this is coming out for frustration, but that’s it.
Today i lost around 400 positions in the ladder.
My win ratio is around 70%, yet when i went around 400 , my rank would simply never go up.
I literally had a 12 win streak and gained, what, 70 positions, and went up to 330 ( for 12 wins). With a single match lost, i dropped about 100 positions.
What does this mean ?
I was playing with much worse ranked players, all along.
What does this mean ?
That people on my “same” rank were not playing, so i couldn’t go up more than i did ( there would be a point where i would likely gain 1 position per win, if not staying on the same spot).
What does this mean ?
People are rewarded for not playing, and after all this time leaderboards are up, it’s getting really, REALLY annoying.
Shame on me for playing, i should have stood at 300 and not play like everyone else.
We all know its a joke. The ball is in A-net’s court. This game punishes you for playing and rewards you for playing as little as possible or not at all. The decay needs to be tweaked seriously and I believe you should get a boost to your rating for being very active and winning a lot. Some guy who is 20-2 should not be ranked in front of someone that is 100-50 for example. 20-2 is some bs small sample of games.
I believe we need to FORCE people to play, at least those in the ladder.
It makes absolutely no sense to play otherwise.
Warriors are strong NOW, i never dinied this. Again, your theory works in my opinion only well in one current map, that is legacy. On Temple and Kyhlo there are to many ways for disengage, it will take the war to much time to follow all over the ledges… About Forest i wont talk, cause forest midpoint a war can nearly do nothing again Necros spamming from the ledges and if using the worm port you are not able to deal with it. Thief is much better in this situations at all.
I think once the MEta is viable without a Necro in, the warrior will not be able to catch his foes anymore, ppl are forced to use stunbreakers and toughness, and in general the warrior lacks against power builds, your 100b does not the damage you need if you land it once. Best example is a guardian, it needs years for a 100b war to kill it, at least ur not able to kill a good one.
But you are right, against a necro this build is still the best counter, it’s the only class which you can enjoy fighting against a necro, cause he can’t do anything against the war… but its only the necro..
You’re picturing a meta with no engies, rangers and necros.
You are talking like if we’re going back to the old burst meta we had sometime ago.
It won’t happen, the only classes currently capable to deal REALLY high damage are GS mesmer and Ele, with thief following.
As long as classes with no teleports will be kept in the meta, the warrior will have a place.
If condi meta disappears due to wars, then we’ll be back to GW 1 and “Build wars”, where war comp counters condi comp, power comp counters war comp and condi comp counters power comp.
You should really hope this to never happen.
Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…
I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.
I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…
And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…
It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.
You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).
As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.
No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.
Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.
If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.
Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.
Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.
You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).
And CC wars will still be viable.
All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.
You’re seriously underrating the warrior
The problem is this CC build needs to stay near your foe all the time. The sustain dmg of this build lack huge in teamfights ofcourse normally ur not able even to land it. As i said, in small fights, 1v1 and 2v2 the war will be nice but anything else this class gives for team support is rezing… The war has huge issues vs power based sustain dps specs, once the meta shift for example gs Messmer the war will be more worse than a elementalist for example. Lack of AOE, has only single Target CC and DPS, cause nobody near your skullcracked foe will sit in your 100b… thief will ever be the master of chasing one guy.
Devs’ re aware mesmer GS and ele damage is over the top and are only held down by the meta.
You say warrior lacks in teamfights, but as soon as a war joins the fight and focus the necro/engi/whatever aside mesmer and thief, as long as the skull crack lands HE WILL GO DOWN.
If they try to ress them, poison+ aoe cleave, which warrior has plenty.
He will also be harder to focus: heal signet + blocks ( mace-shield) + endure pain + 25% more stance duration.
It’s a good sustain build, strong 1vs1 and useful in teamfights: surely not every team will use a warrior in their comp, but saying “lulz it won’t fit” is wrong.
Warriors are strong now.
If there’s no players, then the system cannot invent them on the spot.
There are no players because good players on leaderboard have no reason at all to play once they reach good spots.
Why should they risk their rank if the system allows them to stay there without doing nothing ?
The leaderboard we have is probably based around an ELO system. The problem with ELO is explained by Valve (about DotA 2) here : http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1imrnl/why_we_cant_see_our_matchmaking_rating_and_what/
Here’s the interesting part :
Just one last comment on this. Elo is a TERRIBLE way to give players a sense of “progress.” Many (most?) people reach a plateau, and their Elo stabilizes. It is simply not mathematically possible for Elo to keep increasing in general for players indefinitely as more and more games are played.
Given this reality, if players used Elo to measure “progress”, we would constantly be reminding them that they are NOT making any. That would be really bad.
The fact you aren’t making progress in the leaderboard might because it’s broken, but it’s also how it’s supposed to work in the first place. Most changes in the leaderboard people attribute to evolution are just natural fluctuations of your current ELO around your real ELO due to the way the system works.
Again, i would not complain if i had been matched with good players.
As i checked their rank, i noticed most of the time, even in MY TEAM, none of them were EVEN RANKED.
There’s no doubt why i don’t progress, and as soon as I lost 4 matches ( and it becomes really random in that case, since they’re ABSOLUTELY not of my same skill level) i lost 100 ranks per loss.
If things are like this, ( aka: players on top don’t play so people down them can’t reach them) there’s really no point at all in playing: find a decent spot and profit.
At least at the beginning they were playing in order to get there, now it’s simply too difficult to get there ( small rewards when winning and huge drops when losing), at least here in EU.
Nerf Hammer? by nerfing only 2 abilities of a broken class? not really…
I mean it’s ridiculous give the thief all you can get in one spec, there has to be some deficit in this build also, and a thief will still be able to deal much dps IF he spec for it with a S/D setup. More dps less surviva or the opposite, thats the thing this spec should roll for.
I discribed 2 little nerfs on this spec, a nerf hammer looks something different…
And again, the warrior’s mechanik is not viable in tpvp… Why is the Warrior working at the moment? Ppl run mindless condi spammers without stunbreakers, it’s a meal for an warrior. But once the Meta will change, the war will get eaten so hard again…
It is an option for back point, like BM ranger was in the past, but thats all. The war has 0 Team abilities unless you play with banners. So tell me why people should run a warrior? The elementalist is better in all points if a condi nerf will income. Will be able to replace the Ranger on back node if CC neither gets the hardly needed nerf.
You wanted to bring down a dps ability by 50%. This is what i could descrive as a “nerf hammer” just like they did in the past with dancing dagger ( and we all know the state of that skill).
As i said, i believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without bringing the whole set down, still you completely missed the point of S/D opness: an S/D thief is capable to snowball simply due to Inf strike making the thief able to port everywhere.
No enemi will ever escape from the thief, no repositioning on ledges allowed, Inf strike will get you no matters what.
Flanking evade is not OP, Larcenous is strong but not gambreaking: Inf strike is.
If you, as a mesmer, didn’t understand this then i bet nobody will aside thieves, since mesmers are the ones getting trained so bad by this skill.
Regarding warrior, as long as they have strong CCs, they’ll still be viable.
Again, if the meta shifts, berserker stance won’t be kept as a must have, and cleansing ire will be more than enough.
You will basically have good old burst wars with nothing more than 200 less power and 10% less damage on GS, with ridicolous sustain a 4 secs stun on skull crack to chain CC and burst a foe down ( this coupled with a good banner ress).
And CC wars will still be viable.
All packed in a tanky build with blocks and good toughness.
You’re seriously underrating the warrior
that’s (a large) part of the problem yeah, but what likely happened is you were que’d up with 4 people close to your ranking vs various 800+/unranked people those games. The matchmaking system is broken, and they have admitted it.. I can’t believe after two months okittennowledging the problem they still haven’t done anything. Decay has been a problem way before this and they still haven’t acknowledged it as far as I know.
I’m sitting at like 110 rank, refuse to play until they fix matchmaking because either you’re on the winners team (top ranked players) or you get unlucky on the losers team (you + a bunch of ranked 500-900/unranked vs top 50 team)
The problem is a lot worse than you think.
I came back at september after my vacation, i basically had only 4 days to play.
I went from nothing to ranked, and, when i was starting to win a lot, and not increasing my rank as i would, i started checking my enemies and allies rank on the leaderboard.
most of the time, nor my teammates neither my opponents were EVEN RANKED
I fought something like 6-7 times against good ranked people and after that, NOTHING, or very low ranked people ( still they were something like 2/10 of the whole teams).
After losing 100 positions with a single match, it all became evident.
How in the world a rank 300 is getting paired with SO MUCH WORSE opponents ? EVEN IN MY TEAM ?
This is not only a playerbase problem, ranked people are not playing at all, or at very odd times and probably even syncing ( i got into an almost full top team group twice and demolished our opponents something like 500-20).
I don’t even need to start saying how terribly wrong this is. It can’t stay that way and they need to reset leaderboards as soon as they fix it, and they need to fix it ASAP.
i know that feel, especially regarding leaderboards i had a terrible experience.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-last-rant-about-leaderboards/first#post2777102
Personally i believe the “incentive” part is much more important than you believe.
Tons of people play for the competition, currently there’s none.
I would NEVER stand on my rank and not play in order to lose it ( i did it even in group queue, with pugs, still managed to keep a mid rank 500 position) because i like to face good and skilled opponents.
This is not what is happening: getting matched up with scrubs who have no idea what to do even if you’re at the top half of the ladder is not satyisfing neither rewarding.
That’s why this game has no competition at all, and why the few ones who keep on staying are really angry and frustrated ( like me).
I admit this is coming out for frustration, but that’s it.
Today i lost around 400 positions in the ladder.
My win ratio is around 70%, yet when i went around 400 , my rank would simply never go up.
I literally had a 12 win streak and gained, what, 70 positions, and went up to 330 ( for 12 wins). With a single match lost, i dropped about 100 positions.
What does this mean ?
I was playing with much worse ranked players, all along.
What does this mean ?
That people on my “same” rank were not playing, so i couldn’t go up more than i did ( there would be a point where i would likely gain 1 position per win, if not staying on the same spot).
What does this mean ?
People are rewarded for not playing, and after all this time leaderboards are up, it’s getting really, REALLY annoying.
Shame on me for playing, i should have stood at 300 and not play like everyone else.
the post the whole forum was spammed with was not breaking any single rule.
Whilst the post itself is a different topic, spamming is against the rules. Numerous people spammed the same post, and when members instigate others into spamming, it created an even bigger problem. The folks who were suspended will be back, but we are very clear in our rules about spam and duplicate posting.
still there was absolutely NO REASON to delete the original post in the first place.
It was already a very delicate moment for the community ( terrible meta, great players leaving, Xeph constructive feedback with a dev post inside it DELETED FOR NO REASON) and yet you pursued your “moderation obsession” with one of the better written post in this forum history.
The reaction was deserved, and again, i hope you will never do such mistakes in the future, because it was really embarassing for all the moderation staff.
the post the whole forum was spammed with was not breaking any single rule.
The “i quit thread” made by Xeph ( which absolutely wasn’t an “I quit thread”, in fact he reposted it exactly because it was deleted with no reason) had even a Dev post ( jon peters iirc) saying there was no reason to delete it.
yet you deleted it.
with a dev post inside it.
the only dev post we had within weeks.
You can do mistakes, surely, but when mistakes are THAT big, the reaction is absolutely understandable.
i hope this will never happen again, because it was really embarassing for you and i have no doubt tons of players uninstalled the game simply for that reason.
Have a nice day.
i just wanted to comment about thief and warrior.
Thief
Dude you’re crazy. Altough i understand thief needs nerf ( and i really believe there’s no way to nerf S/D without breaking the whole set), your suggestions are simply a nerf hammer on random abilities.
The real culprit of S/D opness is Inf strike, period.
This skill should be changed, the whole MH sword is OP as hell ( and i say it as a thief) and the only reason why S/P is not used over S/D is due to Pistrol whip rooting you off and being too slow ( boon stripping is really not that useful anymore).
Warrior
Again, you’re crazy.
Warriors can be played also with Mace-shield + hammer and as soon as the meta shifts, they will no more need to bring berserker stance and will be able to bring a double endure pain instead of it ( U-skill + proc), coupled with Mace-shield good blocks and a very strong healing regen.
I mean wtf, aren’t you supposed to be a top player ? and this is the best you can get ?
But they do lack reasonable counterplay.
I would prefer something like gives aegis at the start and end of the cast and reduce the cd to 25s. In that case it is at least possible for classes outside the necro to interrupt it.
Thanks god someone understands me.
On a full cleric bunker guard with Soldier runes, it heals for about 1/3 of my HP.
A healing skill like this which is hard to interrupt is pretty vital on a bunker with such a small HP pool. If we didn’t have Shelter, we’d need the next tier up of base HP in order to survive sufficiently in 1vX situations. Honestly, it’s not just a Guardian’s survivability that makes them strong in comparison to bunker builds of other classes. It’s that we can survive well against physical damage, condition damage, burst, and we give good boon support and condi clears in a teamfight while also having the Stability to get stomps/resses and keep ourselves on point. Other bunker builds are lacking in one or more of these aspects, and should be buffed to have some more of these tools, because so far Guardian is the only class that achieves a critical mass of them.
tl;dr: Guardians aren’t overpowered and in need of a nerf, bunker builds for other classes just need a buff!
We have enough power creep already.
As i said it, shelter gives guardians the chance to survive even against 3 enemies for a good shot ( i’ve seen countless time them surviving a combined burst then just using shelter and surviving again for another minute if not more) and , as you may understand, shelter is REALLY vital for them.
This is all packed up with the best team support this game has, SYG in primis.
It’s time to bring it down, and it’s the only way to make other bunkers possible.
Not only, it would led to the needed buffs in damage/mobility department since a guard has always been a bunker a nothing else, totally neglecting all other possible builds.
It would only led benefits for both guardians and the game.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
You can interrupt shelter, but it relies on two factors.
1. The guardian using it when he has stability.
2. A necro corrupting him, with stability up while he is healing.
I am pretty sure this only works with necros because Corrupt Boon is unblockable, so is Well of Corruption.
And how is this considered balanced ?
Again, the only comparison can be done with thief withdraw, and we all know the answer:
A: the thief will get 2 shotted by burst damage as soon as he gets CCed
B: thief has no access to defensive boon
C: thief cannot be built defensive without being completely useless.
There’s no way to take advantage of withdraw for bunkerability, shelter in comparison is totally broken, and it is.
If you don’t attack it will not block anything – seriously, get good and avoid people blocking with an obvious animation.
Yeah, because the guardian is the only one who will ever be on the point, and AoE is absolutely not used.
Moreover it’s ridicolous that due to a skill blocking for a second and half, you need to waste so much time in order to kill a guardian.
You’re simply afraid this could actually balance things a little, since NO OTHER CLASS comes to the bunkerability of a guardian, all packed up with super support .
Guardian has been silently OP for too much time, it’s time to nerf.
You can’t interrupt Withdraw either or be hit during it.
I aint even mad.
It’s different.
Withdraw is istant cast and evades for 3/4 sec, on the squishiest class in the game.
Usually withdraw is the only sustain any competitive thief build will ever achieve ( unless you play cruuk’s build).
Shelter has been there from day 1, along with guardian, at the top of the food chain for a reason.
Withdraw is on the squishiest class, shelter is on the toughest class BY DESIGN.
I read a comment 1 minute ago, and i suddenly saw the light.
SHELTER IS ABSOLUTELY NOT BALANCED.
You can’t interrupt this healing skill, and on a full cleric guardian it heals for about 50% of its HP.
While blocking everything for more than 1 sec.
A guardian will heal no matters as hard EVEN 3 PEOPLE are focusing him ( the only way to stop it is with an unbloackable reaper mark).
This skill should be removed: this is one of the main reasons( along with bunker guard great support) why a guard has been there at the top of the food chain from day 1.
Pls warriors, and S/D thieves into the line.
That’s all we really need now in order to have a good meta.
And when i say “into line” i don’t mean “NERFHAMMER” like you did with spirit rangers ( altough i’m very happy about it, really, REALLLY happy).
@MrBig
just drastically increase the rewards for playing solo and team arena.
that would help fix the system.the amount of glory / rank gained in hot join is fair acceptable.
the amount of glory / rank gained from solo / team arena is … not enough motivation.ask for the increase of glory / rank rewards gained from solo / team arena.
not removal of hot joins.
Again, it’s not the point.
Hotjoin is the first approach to PvP, the only “resemlance” of an unranked match.
It should teach you to play the game.
If people start going into solo queue as rank1 ( because “rewards are better LOLOLOL”) for the first 10 matches they need to have a ranking, they will totally RUIN those ones playing with them because, as clueless as they are, they will more likely be the sixth one on the opposing team rather than a useful ally for their mates
This is a flawed system, i can’t understand what it’s so difficult to get.
Again, custom arenas can be settled as current hotjoin, they will stay and you all will be able to play them.
But hotjoin servers should “teach you how to play”, not teach you " LOLOLOL ZEEEEEERG".
@MrBig
again, you have no rights to dictate how other players should play the game.
I agree with you.
I’m not bashing hotjoin players, i’m bashing THE SYSTEM.
You zerg in HJ because the system allows you to gain more rewards while doing so.
The system is flawed from its existance.
If you gained glory ONLY WHEN WINNING, you could still play the way you want, but you wouldn’t be rewarded.
This is not how “I” think the game should be played, this is how “DEVS” think the game should be played ( competitive matches clearly show that).
It’s dev faults for designing Hotjoin that way.
Custom arenas are still there, go play them if you wish, but there’s NO WAY the very devs of this game should promote bad play and teaching bad habits with their flawed hotjoin system.
This is what is wrong.
The point is not if you enjoy it or not.
yes, it matters. i play a game to enjoy.
Fine
Hotjoin teaches bad habits, and doesn’t make you to learn the game HOW IT SHOULD BE PLAYED.
and who are you to decide how i should play?
No one. Still this game is a CONQUEST game, you should play according to this rule.
If you stay on a point in 5 just to earn points and zerg the first one you see, you’re not playing good.
You may lose at the end of the match for playing “sissy strategy”, but if you score 300 points while the winning team scores an average of 80 points ( and glory is the only reward), there’s something CLEARLY wrong
Hotjoin should be what the name says: join whenever you want, leave whenver you want, with no penalties ( aka HOTJOIN).
correct.
Indeed.
But you need to not be rewarded for playing bad.
and what rights do you have to say i am playing bad?
Read above.
8vs8 should not exist, since maps are not designed for such high number of players.
8 vs 8 is fun, lets keep it that way.
No other game mode in PvP has 8v8. If hotjoin is newbies " first approach", they should learn how to play the game. 8vs8 has no place in this regard.
You should not gain glory if you lose, because you should play to win.
no, we gain glory for the things we do while in a spvp match, we gain extra glory at the end of the match.
And this is clearly wrong, read above again.
Only if this gets fixed we can hope for the reward overhaul PvP desperately needs.
Period.
it needs some fix, but not by the removal of hot join.
now if they increase the rewards for playing solo arena arena drastically, i am sure solo or team arena will see an increase of players.
No, it should be removed asap.
If you still can’t understand this, i ’ll outright ignore you, since i would be clearly wasting my time.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
@Jack,
the beauty of hot join is casual spvp, which cannot be found in solo arena or team arena.
people simply wants a place to fight, to run, etc.
they want to be able to join in anytime and leave anytime.
if they stay until the end, they earn some extra glory and rank points.
flexibility. freedom.you cannot get any of those in solo or team arena.
and now you want to take these freedom away from us.
what do you expect us to feel when you say that?
The point is not if you enjoy it or not.
Hotjoin teaches bad habits, and doesn’t make you to learn the game HOW IT SHOULD BE PLAYED.
Hotjoin should be what the name says: join whenever you want, leave whenver you want, with no penalties ( aka HOTJOIN).
But you need to not be rewarded for playing bad.
8vs8 should not exist, since maps are not designed for such high number of players.
You should not gain glory if you lose, because you should play to win.
Only if this gets fixed we can hope for the reward overhaul PvP desperately needs.
Period.
I think the devs care about pvp…
I think they actually believe what they say when they say
“we want people to think of this as the game you go to for PVP”Why do I think that?
I know they put in the time to play their own game..
I saw John Sharp playing Eu solo que for a week straight, Stalker-status
(Through the leaderboards =D but that account has been moved? now)These forums have become utterly toxic to dev replies though; one reply by Allie M. = kittennado,
One Reply by Jon S,= Kittenstorm the like of which has never been seen since /b/astards walked the earth.
I’m sure they care just as much as the rest of us playing pvp..
I don’t think you go into game design cause you want to make money
I think you go in there because you care; and cause it’s the coolest job in the world.
And their reward is what? a whole forum seething with hate?So what happends now? How can the devs even make a post on this forum anymore?
It’s up to us as the pvp community as a whole to grow up, stop making troll posts, focus all our energy into 1 or two issues discuss it thoroughly in one thread constructively and lobby for a fix.
Why? Because;
“Short and long term goals which will go unnamed” sounds like the resources for pvp development are going to pve+ and nothing new is coming.
Unless you like zerg warfare.
Darnis,
you’re really too genuine.
After 1 year of listening ( if this could be called listening) to the wrong opinions, buffing wrong stuff, nerfing the wrong stuff, without changing core design features such Hotjoin which totally detracts from skillful play and rewards bad habits, without rehauling the reward system which is clearly wrong and badly implemented….
Anyone would be angry.
I’m too, but i’m not raging. But not everyone is the same.
They get what they deserve, because his time, they totally screwed up.
The moment when people like Follidus and Xeph quit the game, you know you’ve failed hard.
Remove 8vs8
Give glory ONLY when you win
Rehaul reward system
PvP fixed
No, don’t thank me.
People still are arguing.
Warrior > spirit ranger
Warrior also > necroWarrior is in a very strong position right now.
War > evrything
The point is this is not enough to make this meta to shift, since direct damage wil never counter a warrior healing 800 hp per sec.
Currently GW2 is simply not enjoyable, and it’s disgusting to know so many great players left already
I’m pretty sure the build they are talking about has max 542 hps. Not even always. 474 on average. 575 max with Valkyrie Amulet, 498 on average.
Absolutely false.
407 heal per sec with heal signet, 396 heal per sec with adrenal health at 3 adrenal bars.
It’s 803 hp per sec.
Unless there is a bug, Adrenal health heals every 3 seconds.
Correct, i verified.
still doesn’t really change anything, altough now i understand how broken would 800 hp per sec would have been
People still are arguing.
Warrior > spirit ranger
Warrior also > necroWarrior is in a very strong position right now.
War > evrything
The point is this is not enough to make this meta to shift, since direct damage wil never counter a warrior healing 800 hp per sec.
Currently GW2 is simply not enjoyable, and it’s disgusting to know so many great players left already
I’m pretty sure the build they are talking about has max 542 hps. Not even always. 474 on average. 575 max with Valkyrie Amulet, 498 on average.
Absolutely false.
407 heal per sec with heal signet, 396 heal per sec with adrenal health at 3 adrenal bars.
It’s 803 hp per sec.
People still are arguing.
Warrior > spirit ranger
Warrior also > necroWarrior is in a very strong position right now.
War > evrything
The point is this is not enough to make this meta to shift, since direct damage wil never counter a warrior healing 800 hp per sec.
Currently GW2 is simply not enjoyable, and it’s disgusting to know so many great players left already
Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.
Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.
Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.
So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.
Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.
Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.
Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.
Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.
Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.
You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.
S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.
You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.
And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.
The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.
in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.
They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.
It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.
Deal with it.
Yet Warrior’s and Engi are beating Spirit Rangers 1v1, they must be running a cheese build and are ridiculously OP. Better start new thread, there are classes beating Spirit Ranger quickly nerf them.
Spirit Elite yep it is OP, never said it wasn’t and I’ve never really said thakittens hard to play Spirit Ranger or anything to do with Spirit ranger itself. What I have said is ways to deal with it.
Every team has same problem, every single team in Team Arena runs at least 1 Spirit Ranger. Why the hell haven’t they figured out how to counter it rather then come to forums and QQ.
You know warriors are beating spirit rangers because they’re in the same OPwagon.
Engies in order to beat them needed to completely change their build to a more dumbed spammy build with nades , rampager ammo and automated response ( another cheese), basically a dumbed down version of the high skill ceiling engi build we usually used to run: still the engi is capable to do so because it’s the most versatile, balanced proff out there and has the options to do so, and still it’s about 50%-50%.
What about other classes ?
Do you think is satisfying when a pro -insert class here- is defeated by someone spamming autos with shortbow ?
The answer is simple, and it really doesn’t matter if you CAN counter comp him.
Truth hurts doesn’t it you nice guy. I’ll let you fill in the blank’s.
Your prob one of them morons basing there fact’s off Solo Que, them arena’s will never be balance ever.
Now team que, may not be balanced but all the QQ about spirit ranger’s cracks me up, simple minded kittentards have no idea.
So, this time your argument is that you agree that it’s definitely not balanced for solo arena, and it may not be balanced for team arena, but people are complaining too much about how it’s not balanced. I see.
Actually, Mini Ken is a good guardian and plays tpvp quite often. I never see you around though.
Aw, thanks Aeroxe! I played against Sol once just a night or two ago in team arena, he just doesn’t remember I guess.
Unlike you at least I post counter’s to the argument, on how you can improve your team’s game play. So it’s less stressful when you face teams running these so called Cheese build which turn’s out any build that beats someone is Cheese.
Sol, it seems you don’t really understand the point of the whining against spirit rangers.
Personally i don’t feel spirit rangers are THAT OP ( maybe the only OP thing is the ress elite), but they’re ridicolously broken.
You can LITERALLY spam your skill and win against a competent opponent playing another class.
S/D thieves are on the same road, but they can be countered by learning their animations: spirit rangers can’t be countered due to random, automatic, procs putting BURNING on your opponents ( best damging condi) and prot on you ( best defensive condi) without you really doing anything.
You can’t counter a proc, it will just happen you’ll burn your opponent with a 40% uptime with a single, unavoidable, proc.
And if you are equipped with forge runes, between dodges and procs, you have nearly 100% prot uptime on you.
The only “counter” is to kill your spirits, which have good health and need TEAM FOCUSING ( or 2vs1) to be killed fast, putting your team into a disadvantage.
in a 1vs1 situation, killing a spirit ranger WHILE killing his spirits ( hoping he didn’t cast them 30 secs before, in that case you’ll have him able to recast them as soon as you destroy them) is exhausting, requires too much time for the skill the ranger requires to kill you ( dumb rotation of skills even a brain dead monkey could pull off) and is ALWAYS in ranger favor unless you’re against a CC war or a necro.
They also have RIDICOLOUSLY strong team support and , most annoying fact, they clutter the screen with AI.
It’s a cheese build, not ridicolously OP, but cheesy as kitten, and dumb down the whole game along with necro condi spam.
Deal with it.
Volrath have you read these forums? 85% of the posts here are toxic and terrible. If I were a dev, I wouldn’t want to spend time here either.
you kno what? You are right! Keep devs out of the forums!
after 1 year, this “strategy” has brought us to
- the worst meta ever seen in this game
- empty spvp maps
- long tournament queues
- entire guilds gone
- unbalanced professions
- broken mechanics
- and so onso if you think that continuing to ignore the players is the way to go… Just wait another year. (If there is still someone playing this game) it will be awesome for sure!
tbh, we have this meta EXACTLY because they look at the forums, take THE WORST INPUT POSSIBLE FROM ONE OF THE MOST DUMB COMMUNITY EVER and balance according to it.
“Necro is UP, buff pls UEEEEE UEEEEE”
“Ranger is UP, buff pls UEEEEEEE UEEEEE”
“Thief too stronk, nerf pls UEEEEEEEEEE UEEEEE " ( they buff it into something different, still they cry)
“Mesmer too stronk, pls nerf UEEEE UEEEE ( condi meta arises, mesmers disappear)
“Warrior too UP, pls buff UEEEE UEEEE ( here they come with 10 secs berserker stance stunlock warriors).
“Ele too stronk, pls nerf UEEEEE UEEEE ( they broke ele mobility, healing and condi cleanse, forcing them into subotpimal one shot wonders).
/BALANCE.
So why do you not take shadow’s embrace or does it not help with condi removal much?
I see pain response, it does look like a good trait to take in this messed up meta.
I do not take it because i don’t need it, and because i would give up damage to take it.
Shadow arts builds have a completely different role and are not really good, unless you play cruuk build ( a very underrated build) and go for the far point assault, something seriously problematic currently due to spirit rangers being there and bodyblocking your damage with spirits.
@MrBig,
What’s your traits look like? I’m guessing you took shadow’s embrace?
Absolutely not.
10-30-0-30-0 common build
Common mistake is to NOT pick pain response, which is basically an automatic, full condi cleanse every 30 secs.
MrBig,
There is no distinct difference between a good thief and bad thief.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
wait
ahahahahahhhahahaAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Dude you’re really funny.
Then explain me why i roflstomp the great majority of thieves out there, playing my same build, same weapon set, same utilities, and explain me why thieves better than me roflstomp me as hard as i do with other thieves.
You say that 1/2 secs is not enough to react, then explain me why everytime i fight thieves on my necro/warrior/engi i can beat them AND they can beat me, why i can manage to fight them and you can’t.
Wanna know ?
BECAUSE MY MAIN IS A THIEF, and i know timings, i know what a thief will do, and it’s all basic hand-eye reaction: i hit skull crack as soon as i see larcenous, he will port back, i’ll close the gap and literally 100-0 the thief in a 4 secs span, because thieves are still THAT squishy.
Of course this is just an example, you can do the same with almost all classes aside shatter mesmers ( mostly because they need to bring team oriented utility OR null field due to current meta, otherwise they would be able to stand a good fight with just a single more selfish U-skill).
If people don’t take the proper time to get better with a game, it’s not a proff fault if they lose: S/D thieves are frustrating to play against, but can be defeated.
The issue with S/D thieves is completely different.
@Excalibur
S/D thieves fare well in this meta thanks to spammable condi removal + full condi removal every 45 secs.
As an S/D thief i can 1vs1 ANY necro, even the best ones, knowing i have a good chance of winning, while almost every other classes ( aside war and MAYBE spirit ranger) will fail miserably.
I don’t fear conditions at all, unless i play very bad and get filled with condies, but in that case, it has been MY fault.
Yes, as a few people said.
Infiltrator’s strike is the one thing that is keeping sword mainhand competitive. This applies to S/D and also S/P ofcourse. Without infil strike there is no doubt in my mind I would ditch sword (and probably thief altogether). However it was already nerfed with shadow return no longer breaking stun so I think it’s balanced now.
No, it’s not, at least not in current meta.
In this condi spam meta, S/D thieves give you absolutely no time to react, neither to reposition yourself properly, mostly due to
1. handling an S/D thief is already hard, doing it while being chilled, feared, crippled and DOTed to death is almost impossible, especially for low hp pool classes
2. these low hp pool classes are already very team oriented ( mesmer, ele) , in some cases mostly due to unnecessary/bad thought nerfs ( ele case) or due to outstandigly strong U-skills which detracts from self sustain capabilities ( mesmer case) and since S/D thief can jump from a target to another with very little cost ( great 1vs1 capabilities, with low burst but very high sustain), S/D thief basically removes them from the meta till condi spam is fixed ( and the game becomes skill based again).
As i said, it’s not that S/D thieves are THAT OP, they’re OP in THIS meta.
The issue regarding S/D thieves is not FS -> LS chain, neither is the evade.
The reason why S/D is so strong is because it’s able to snowball low HP classes thanks to Inf strike mobility, without even giving them time to reposition.
Not that it matters, since Inf strike will just get the thief back to you in no time.
Add this to the natural strong 1vs1 capability of the build and you know how it will ends.
Most thieves won’t talk about it because they KNOW the issue is Inf strike, not the evade, neither the damage ( in fact a common EU S/D build CAN be defeated 1vs1 by multiple classes, as long as they have decent ranged options or good CCs, or good AoE control/damage), and all thieves know that a nerf to Inf strike would not only break the set, but the whole Sword MH.
Nerfing damage ( unless they totally kitten it ridicolously, stuff like -33% damage like they did with C&D or dancing dagger) won’t change anything, because the issue is Inf strike coupled with the good sustain S/D offers.
Also: note that S/P is not used simply because pistol whip deals mediocre damage and ROOTS YOU IN PLACE: if we could use pistol whip on the move and dealt a little bit more of damge, NOBODY would run S/D.
LITERALLY
NOBODY.
I disagree, evade is the issue. It gives S/D the ability to evade tank. Mitigating damage should be a sacrifice of a damage dealing stat. Or if mitigation is done via skill it should have a long cooldown.
If you noticed for block there are unblockable skills, for dodge there is weakness (even though I feel it doesn’t do a good job as a counter) and for evade there is absolutely nothing.
So what does this mean? It can be used without fear of someone punishing you for spamming it. If there were skills that were can’t be evaded then S/D would be less of a issue.
Evade should use a portion of your endurance meter like dodge. When you run out of endurance you can still use the skill but you can no longer evade.
This would stop the spamming since it will be controlled and there would be a distinct difference between dodge and evade. Dodge would be just the double tap skill. Evade would be like dodge except it combines the effect of dodge with a skill. So it has a advantage over it.
I hate to say it , but you need to L2P, and i don’t want to sound elitist, but it’s just a matter of fact.
Larcenous strike ( big damage) requires 1/2 secs to connect: plenty of time to react and use your damage-CC.
Why, as arganthium said, is there a difference between a good thief and an idiot spamming 3 ?
because the good thief will fake the move, knowing that a good opponent IS ABLE to spot Larcenous Strike animation and HIT meanwhile.
Persistant AoEs are also S/D weak spot.
Evade is not a problem: it may be frustrating to play against, but it’s not the problem, neither the reason why S/D thief is strong.
I agree S/D thief is a bit over the top ( absolutely not as OP as most people claim), but i cannot take people seriously as long as they literally have NO IDEA why S/D thieves are strong in current meta ( and still will be, altough less strong, even if the meta shifts).
Funny guy.
Show me how its a l2p issue. Youtube is available why don’t you make videos putting into application what you are telling me here. Then we can engage in conversation.
Dude just go to Jumper twitch channel, or even youtube, and listen to him while he explains what a good S/D thief should do ( there’s a video-guide, and even a guide at mistpedia.com).
Or go to guildwars2.pvptv and ask to helseth WHY he thinks S/D is OP/bad for the meta.
He won’t say " DEEEEEERP TOO MANY DODGES" but will say " kitten thief follows me everywhere !!!".
If you’re worried about dodges, it’s simply a low-skill level issue that most good ( not even top) players can overcome.
Again, i may agree dodges are frustrating to play against, but they’re not the reason why Helseth ( and many others) are right hating S/D thieves.
1. the community
end.
The issue regarding S/D thieves is not FS -> LS chain, neither is the evade.
The reason why S/D is so strong is because it’s able to snowball low HP classes thanks to Inf strike mobility, without even giving them time to reposition.
Not that it matters, since Inf strike will just get the thief back to you in no time.
Add this to the natural strong 1vs1 capability of the build and you know how it will ends.
Most thieves won’t talk about it because they KNOW the issue is Inf strike, not the evade, neither the damage ( in fact a common EU S/D build CAN be defeated 1vs1 by multiple classes, as long as they have decent ranged options or good CCs, or good AoE control/damage), and all thieves know that a nerf to Inf strike would not only break the set, but the whole Sword MH.
Nerfing damage ( unless they totally kitten it ridicolously, stuff like -33% damage like they did with C&D or dancing dagger) won’t change anything, because the issue is Inf strike coupled with the good sustain S/D offers.
Also: note that S/P is not used simply because pistol whip deals mediocre damage and ROOTS YOU IN PLACE: if we could use pistol whip on the move and dealt a little bit more of damge, NOBODY would run S/D.
LITERALLY
NOBODY.
I disagree, evade is the issue. It gives S/D the ability to evade tank. Mitigating damage should be a sacrifice of a damage dealing stat. Or if mitigation is done via skill it should have a long cooldown.
If you noticed for block there are unblockable skills, for dodge there is weakness (even though I feel it doesn’t do a good job as a counter) and for evade there is absolutely nothing.
So what does this mean? It can be used without fear of someone punishing you for spamming it. If there were skills that were can’t be evaded then S/D would be less of a issue.
Evade should use a portion of your endurance meter like dodge. When you run out of endurance you can still use the skill but you can no longer evade.
This would stop the spamming since it will be controlled and there would be a distinct difference between dodge and evade. Dodge would be just the double tap skill. Evade would be like dodge except it combines the effect of dodge with a skill. So it has a advantage over it.
I hate to say it , but you need to L2P, and i don’t want to sound elitist, but it’s just a matter of fact.
Larcenous strike ( big damage) requires 1/2 secs to connect: plenty of time to react and use your damage-CC.
Why, as arganthium said, is there a difference between a good thief and an idiot spamming 3 ?
because the good thief will fake the move, knowing that a good opponent IS ABLE to spot Larcenous Strike animation and HIT meanwhile.
Persistant AoEs are also S/D weak spot.
Evade is not a problem: it may be frustrating to play against, but it’s not the problem, neither the reason why S/D thief is strong.
I agree S/D thief is a bit over the top ( absolutely not as OP as most people claim), but i cannot take people seriously as long as they literally have NO IDEA why S/D thieves are strong in current meta ( and still will be, altough less strong, even if the meta shifts).
The issue regarding S/D thieves is not FS -> LS chain, neither is the evade.
The reason why S/D is so strong is because it’s able to snowball low HP classes thanks to Inf strike mobility, without even giving them time to reposition.
Not that it matters, since Inf strike will just get the thief back to you in no time.
Add this to the natural strong 1vs1 capability of the build and you know how it will ends.
Most thieves won’t talk about it because they KNOW the issue is Inf strike, not the evade, neither the damage ( in fact a common EU S/D build CAN be defeated 1vs1 by multiple classes, as long as they have decent ranged options or good CCs, or good AoE control/damage), and all thieves know that a nerf to Inf strike would not only break the set, but the whole Sword MH.
Nerfing damage ( unless they totally kitten it ridicolously, stuff like -33% damage like they did with C&D or dancing dagger) won’t change anything, because the issue is Inf strike coupled with the good sustain S/D offers.
Also: note that S/P is not used simply because pistol whip deals mediocre damage and ROOTS YOU IN PLACE: if we could use pistol whip on the move and dealt a little bit more of damge, NOBODY would run S/D.
LITERALLY
NOBODY.
bump, because bump
S/D thieves are not that OP, but the skill floor is ridicolously low, added to the fact you can’t really focus him , makes S/D thieves playable with decent results even by a brainless monkey. The skill cap may be good, but you can’t let idiots running with such builds and able to compete against competent players, not even a chance.
Same with spirit ranger.
Regarding thieves ( the class i know the most) the issues are esponential, they should really reahul its resource system in order to balance it: some skill costs are ridicolously low in current contest( flank-larcenous strike for 5 ini for example) but if you just increase it by 1 you totally destroy the set;
this shows how fragile thief design is, and the reason why a simply nerf to Mug literally DESTROYED D/P full burst.Sorry MrBig, but this caught my eye …. .
2 things (and yes, this is ofc full of bias as any post is .. we can’t really fully understand what other people think .. but we can try):1: S/D is imho THAT OP. Evades on no cd, along with boon-stealing on no cd? Along with decent dps and you don’t even have to go gc. Seriously? Talking from a POV that usually face S/D-thives, I can easily say, that unless I take an equally silly build I am toast. Guardians fx do depend on their buffs for defend; yes they are borderline OP in some ways, but when a thief steals all of it, what does that make the thief, when he along with that can’t be hit?
Spirit-rangers are not even close in the evade-race, but they have other issues that make no sense.
Yes … a good solution would be to re-design how thieves skills function … imo.
2: I don’t get why you are saying P/D is unviable. I am not playing a thief as main, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but last I checked P/D was perfectly viable .. it is just, that S/D is so strong atm. If other builds are made less viable, I think P/D will easily shine again, as will fx mesmers.
1. S/D is not that OP, if you can’t face him i can do nothing but to say “wait for larcenous strike than use your CC/burst”, but it depends accordingly to where you play. This is valid for EU standard S/D thief build, in NA ( if they still play jumper’s build) it’s difficult to time it ( since that build LITERALLY spams dodges) but you just need to outsustain him with blocks/evades/regen or play the “point control” game ( like engies).
S/D OP side is it is able to snowball low HP classes which are already engaged in another fight ( mostly thanks to inf strike mobility) and since it really has little importance if you’re able to reposition yourself, since an S/D thief will catch you anyway ( again, it’s mostly inf strike ).
People usually bash larc strike or shadow return as culprits, the reality is that Inf strike is what has basically made a class with low mobility like the mesmer to disappear: an S/D thief, paired with condies, is lethal, since it gives you no time to reposition you properly, and even if you do it, still you can’t escape him.
S/D thief is not OP in a direct damage meta, since it’s a sustain build with decent burst which offers only AoE poison and AoE stealth ( the real reason why a thief is brought in a team), and this build also offers boon stealing ( which was an issue only during bunker ele and HGH engies) and better mobility than standard thief builds ( but again, map travel mobility has always been thief clutch).
S/D thief can be fought 1vs1 by eles, certain mesmer builds, engies, warriors and rangers and CAN be defeated: it’s strong 1vs1 but not unbeatable, infact 1vs1 is not where this build shines and not why it is considered OP.
2. D/P thief is not viable since mug nerf. Infact, even Caed switched from a burst build to a more “team” oriented build with more sustain ( the trickery burst build) which still offers decent burst and good support via boon stealing.
Yet it is inferior to a certain degree ( altough different) to S/D, and S/D thieves, along with necros, are “forcing” the meta.
But if you remove the thief, the meta will be the same, with another spirit ranger in the team. If you nerf necros/rangers, the meta will shift.
This means the thief is NOT THAT OP, but maybe simply a little bit too strong ( and infact it should be nerfed somehow, i even said it).
Do pls show me this 2k healing and 15s CD water trident ( also 2k healing)..also here, same build again same mesmer( only this time He see the ele)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VYm0MZOEKdE#t=285
And @Helseth is running a glass cannon nonetheless..can you imagine your total dmg against a non glass target and what happen when your burst fail?…no you can’t too biased for that
I grow tired of this discussion, you’re too biased for any possible conversation, I play ele, played it since BWE1 ( and 7 years before that in GW1) thw whole concept of ele is imprinted in my mind like AC/DC theory….on top of that I play thief-guardian-ranger-necro..that must be why I’m a lot less biased than you
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArICAIKAAAA-TgAA0CvI4SxljLDXSuscB
Just equipped 20 water and valk amulet
cleansing wave= 1831
trident = 1977 ( 20 secs, yeah, MY BAD lol )
You say you’re not biased, yet you fail to see HOW STRONG the ele was pre patch ( god like for 6 moths, ruining the whole meta and ALL TOP PLAYERS said it)
Same for mesmers and bunker guard ( which should indeed be nerfed).
All other professions all have cheesy aspects which should be nerfed ( evasion for thief, CC for wars, spirits for ranger) and really saw the light for very minor times, in this game the only REALLY balanced proff is the engeneer ( and necro pre-patch).
If condi meta gets nerfed, ele, mesmer and bunk guard will rule the meta once again.
All top players think like this, but since you don’t ( and since you’re “unbiased” LOL) we all must be delusional and biased.
Surely.
@MrBig
Ok…you say huge DPS build with great team support..right
This is the video @Helsest is reffering to :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MlXskSmfpIAnd this is @Mogwow build
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2B2-V0w4VL-Z0;9;5J-JT;159;245-45A5w0;3G3G3G3G34BNNot a fresh air build ( the one mentioned by @helseth in its video ), a double arcane ele with no stun breaker and 13k HP ( what more ele should sacrifice in order to get some burst dmg?)…do pls find me this Huge team support as you say.
It should be comparable to the current support engy,rangers and necros offer right now, but before that, got another question for you Have you ever played a burst ele without double arcana and valkryrie?
As both you and @Helseth both suggest to nerf ele dmg..did any of you two actually played a non valkrie/double arcane ele build?
As I’ve stated before : Common sense here is even more doubtfull than the amount of skills required to play this game.
I’d be obliged if you’d stop with your non-sensical ele hate campaign, you’ve been at it since…2011 using another forum ( GW2 guru forum, same name ), what you do is very sad..and given your level of knowledge about the ele I’d like to add your hate campaign is really pathetic also
Uhm, where should i start….
Switch to water: AoE heal , remove 1 condi AoE
Cleansing Wave : AoE heal, remove 1 condi AoE
Evasive arcana in water = cleansing wave ( read above)
Trident : AoE heal on a 15 secs CD
( note: they all heal for 2k on valk ele burst build)
Might stacking ( usually coupled with stealth ambush)
Swiftness stacking ( at the start of the game)
Boon stacking on teamfights ( the N. 1 REASON why teams always run with 1+ ele before this nonsense patch), or rather….
- fire combo field + blast finisher + switch to fire = AoE might
- combo blast ( phoenix-dragon’s tooth-earthquake, churning earth, arcane wave) on allies’ combo fields ( especially with engis/rangers’ water fields) without really changing their damage rotation
- AoE protection ( earth attunement)
- AoE regen ( water attunement) which also removes another condition AoE if you trait for 30 in water and pick up Cleansing water ( there’s a common build out there doing this, and this make the ele removing 2 condi AoE by simply SWITCHING TO WATER)
- AoE swiftness ( air attunement)
Istant, non telegraphed ( unless you see the ele casting Earthquake) burst, by far superior to thieves burst post haste nerf, since thief burst STILL requires actual time to be pulled off and is not made by ALL ISTANT cast like ele ones.
Do you REALLY play ele ?
What kind of silly argument is " try to play a not X not Y build with the ele blah blah blah" ?
It’s just about the same as saying " try to run a full condition guardian than we’ll see ": it’s not OUR fault if aNet has no idea how to balance traitlines and due to this only certain amulets-traits combinations are viable, but it’s definitely YOUR fault if you run a bad build and cry about it not being viable.
Ele has strong builds, it was and ( if the meta shifts away from condis) still will be one of the strongest classes in the whole game.
Again, stop acting like a kid.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
stuff being said
omg you need to understand that you SHOULD build for offense if you want to do damage.
Ele has both precision/crit damage on the same traitline, just like the thief, so if you want to do damage YOU NEED TO TRAIT IN THAT kittenING TREE.
If you want to do more damage, than you need to go deep in the power tree too.
Otherwise you’re just creating an hybrid build, hoping it will be good enough as long as you have sustain ( offensive D/D ele pre nerf and current warrior are good examples).
This goes specifically for the ele, which brings TONS of utility to the team along with his dps ( something only the mesmer can compete).
Mesmer issues are only based on current condi spam meta, it has been one of the strongest proff for all this game existance, along with bunker guard, and in fact they should BOTH be nerfed like ele was .
S/D thieves are not that OP, but the skill floor is ridicolously low, added to the fact you can’t really focus him , makes S/D thieves playable with decent results even by a brainless monkey. The skill cap may be good, but you can’t let idiots running with such builds and able to compete against competent players, not even a chance.
Same with spirit ranger.
Regarding thieves ( the class i know the most) the issues are esponential, they should really reahul its resource system in order to balance it: some skill costs are ridicolously low in current contest( flank-larcenous strike for 5 ini for example) but if you just increase it by 1 you totally destroy the set;
this shows how fragile thief design is, and the reason why a simply nerf to Mug literally DESTROYED D/P full burst.
Necro pressure just needed ONE MORE CONDITION to cover poison and the costant 10+ stacks of bleeds, which , paired with Terror, were already doing great.
Now they have both torment and burning, and we’re wondering why 10+ stacks of bleeds + burning+ poison+ torment+ terror is bursting a player from 100 to 0 in 5 seconds ( -.- wtf, seriously).
Burning was never a good choice to begin with, procs giving burning with no counterplay allowed is the dumbest thing game’s world have ever come to see, they should just spread burning around weapons for all the proffs involved ( ranger, necro, engi) or just make procs to give you a buff giving 1 sec of burning per hit for the next 2-3 hits or something, in order to avoid 70% burning uptime with a single trait + condi duration ( 4 secs burning on proc + 40% condi duration anyone ? ) .
This game is in such bad shape due to tons of HORRIBLE design/balance decisions that even a kittened kid could have understood, and even more due to devs listening to the QQ of the community, of which 90% has absolutely NO IDEA how to play this game ( berserker stance, Necro buffs, spirit rangers, S/D thieves etc etc).
They said " UEEEE UEEEE THEY SHOULD NOT BALANCE AROUND TOP PLAYERS, WE’RE THE MAJORITY HERE".
This meta was balanced around you, my dear “majority”: i hope this “majority”, after seeing what has happened to this game thanks to their “smart” QQ, will shut the kitten up for the rest of their existance.
i made a thread some time ago telling the same.
This is definitely true, and it’s impossible to understand what is wrong and what not.
I once played with a team where our guardian constantly asked for help in a 2vs1 and i used to say " well, it’s a double dps against a bunker, i think i should go" then i played with another guardian who was able to fight 1vs3 for 30 seconds and more.
It’s really hard to understand who is playing badly, even when on TS, and it’s even harder to get when/where you should go to a point or another, who should go, if you need backup, if you should leave him 1vs1 etc etc.
This is indeed a problem, and not a “newbie only” one.
in topic: ask them if they think that the skill ceiling of the game decreased with the last patch.
What he said.
I’ll go clearer anyway
1. Are there any plan to reduce proc effects , especially when they give you the strongest condition in game ( sun spirit, dhuumfire, incendiary powder) ?
Is there any plan to AT LEAST give us some sort of counterplay, just like Incendiary Ammo buff ( so i know i have to dodge next attacks, otherwise big burning to me) ?
2. Is there any plan to tone down necros so they are not a moving, super tanky, nuclear reactor of conditions ?
Is there any plan to tone down burning across the board ( tied to point 1) without affecting class efficiency ( like the silly Elixir R nerf on engis) ?
3. Is there any SERIOUS plan about toning down AoE ( and not the usual " we want to tone down AoE, in the next future" which has never come, at least until now, and they’ve been talking about it for months) ?
4. Is there a plan to reduce passive play being rewarded?
and i’m also talking about S/D thieves, which is my main, altough they may have a good skill cap, the skill floor is ridicolously low.
Passive benefits + spamming ( spirit ranger, condi spam, procs spam, evade spam) already dumbed down this game too much, it’s time to NERF BAT HARD.
ah, I FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONES, silly me.
5. ASURAS + ANIMATIONS
Make asura human sized in tournaments, ban them, do something, IT’S RIDICOLOUS.
And do something about insta cast ( 4 secs stun skull crack, ele burst and all the crap) , it’s fine if you have 1 or 2 istant skills , but if you can chain them togheter ( ele burst) or get killed because an instant skill gives you no cue it’s going to stun you for 4 secs ( warrior) it’s ATROCIOUS.
6. REWARDS
JUST ASK THEM TO DO SOMETHING, i think all PvP players are already kitten ed enough.
i’d like to underline key issues:
asuras
rewards
asura
rewards
asura
hotjoin mess
asura
rewards
AoE mess
Conditions AoE mess
Asura
Rewards
Balance
No public testing
Asura
Rewards.
As you can see, basically what OP said, but he said it better.
Edit: more serious
Having teams to gain glory if they lose is ridicolous.
We should gain glory ONLY when we actually win, so a good overhaul of the reward system can be done, with glory as an effective CURRENCY instead of the useless crap we currently have kittenloads of.
aNet, we’re expecting something HUGE after pax crap, our patience is really ending and it would be useless to have a huge tournament like Pax one if no one cares about your game anymore ( tons of players are leaving, teams are disbanding, i’ve never seen such an exodus if not at svanir’s rune bug left unfixed for months).
Please.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
sincerely, i’ve taken a look at countless build and it’s way better than yours.
You’re taking pretty useless traits such illusionary persona and staff recharge while you could easily take cripple on shatter and confusion on shatter, so your shatters will cause 3 condi each ( 2 AoE stacks of confusion, AoE cripple + AoE random damaging condi PER SHATTER).
You don’t even get better defense with your build, since signet of illusion allows triple distortion.
Just play countless build, it’s way better, but keep scepter/torch.
That’s how i do it.
done and bump because this is a really interesting thread.
edit:
it would be better to put it on google docs and do something like @reroll used to do ( pls do it again, it’s very helpful !!! )