Guild Wars 2

Straylight.7529:

Shinzan.2908:

New players getting HoT for free is ridiculous, at least throw in a discount, gems, some bonus upgrades or free character slots.

They are not getting HoT for free. They have to pay 50$ just like everyone else. They are simply getting the core game as a free bonus IF they purchase HoT.

ReiCH.6273:

lol, they haven’t delivered any “content” for months now… and even when they were “delivering” content in the form of living story episodes, you seem to be forgetting the weeks long “breaks” they were taking

But when you got something you got it for free. Stop complaining about free stuff.

Nothing in this game is free. I’ve paid for the game and I’ve paid for all my store purchases. Once again you’re making things up.

GeekDavid.2786:

WiredHot.7651:

This is good to remember. People that say they know the majority of players are angry/quitting the game/not ever going to buy HoT are simply exaggerating.

Exaggerate no more. I am gone from GW2 and may very well not return. Arenanet has done a real disservice to this long standing player who was part of this franchise going way back to GW1.

Out of here,

[/quote]

If they don’t address these problems soon, and satisfactorily, I’ll probably be joining you.[/quote]

I’m mad but I most certainly didn’t want this to happen. I guess it was unavoidable.

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

Straylight.7529:

Baldrick.8967:

Here’s some logic:

The vast majority of players are unhappy about the expansion.

If they were exstatic about it, people would be buying it in droves, towns would be full of happy people spouting on about it, and forums and social media would be full of people singing it’s praises.

-snip-

No, I’m sorry but your post already falls apart right there. The vast majority of people are indifferent/happy about the expansion/game. There are hundreds of thousands of GW2 players you never hear of. They never post on the forum. They never complain and they never voice their opinion. Those are all typical behavioral patterns for indifferent or happy people.

So, all of the unhappy people I know are really just indifferent?

…or they just don’t bother posting on forums. Perhaps because they’d rather not have to see people telling them they’re “feeling wrong”. Instead they just vote with their wallet. The vote that really matters to Anet.

No, the unhappy people are unhappy and the indifferent people are indifferent. It just happens that the few unhappy people you know pale in comparison to the number of indifferent+happy people out there.

Sure, there will be people who’re unhappy and simply vote with their wallet without telling anyone. But you forget that people who don’t complain are more likely to belong to the happy+indifferent group opposed to the unhappy group. Most people are not complaining that means most people are indifferent or happy.

Yet again this is pure speculation. You have ZERO proof of any of this. You’re voicing your opinion on to others.

Straylight.7529 Your only purpose here is to derail this thread. Go troll somewhere else and stick to facts.

Straylight.7529:

Conski Deshan.2057:

Straylight.7529:

mrstealth.6701:

But there are also a lot of players that are just as unhappy and not posting about it.

That is true. There are unhappy people out there who can’t/don’t want to post. But it’s more likely that they will complain opposed to unhappy or indifferent people who never complain. Therefore the people you see complaining on the forums are a fraction of an already small fraction. Therefore they must be in the minority.

Even if it’s true why does it matter? why are you arguing with the players here?
The point of this topic is some players were unhappy with the whole pre-order deal for various reasons they are posting here to express them. Since you’re apparently happy with the deal it doesn’t negatively effect you the only outcomes that can occur are:
1. Anet changes something to give a better deal, in which case this is a boon to you.
2. Anet does nothing, in which case since you’re already happy it doesen’t effect you.

The only outcome is a potential positive change for you, so why pick fights with the people here for no reason? Their reasons are their own nothing you say will change that doesn’t matter if you don’t agree or think their reasons are false.

But the local minority who’s unhappy with this preorder deal is unhappy for all the wrong reasons and I want them to be happy. I actually want to help them. Also it can’t be said enough: if you’re not happy with the preorder, just don’t preorder. Wait until the game releases, watch some reviews, ask a friend who bought it etc.. People here act like Arenanet is holding a gun to their heads saying “Preorder or die”.

I’m not picking fights. I’m simply voicing my opinion like everyone else. I’m just one person with one opinion. Nothing more.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Yes it’s called feeling like you get what you pay for. I felt the gems I bought and what I spent them on were worth it. I don’t see the expansion as being worth $50 ($60 CDN) by a long shot. That for no frills base model without even a character slot. I feel as many others do that ANet is giving a nice deal to new players while giving the finger to old players.

I wouldn’t go so far and say Arenanet is giving the finger to veteran players. They simply don’t treat veteran players preferentially because they (Arenanet) doesn’t feel like you’re something special for already owning the game. If you think you are something special for already owning the game than you can think that of course.

Thanks for dictating to us on why we are wrong and you are right. Nice trolling.

Straylight.7529:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I honestly think we will hear nothing from ANet as long as the sales are good. If they reach sales targets, I’m sorry, but we can all scream to the rafters all the day long and they DO NOT CARE. Once again, the erosion of trust will continue, and more and more people will finally get fed up enough to just uninstall the game. And as long as they continuously bring in new players, it doesn’t matter one iota. Although, they may really miss the likes of me, as I have spent well over a grand in the gem store over my time here. And yet I refuse to buy this overpriced expansion when it’s really only worth $30 AND they don’t give the extra character slot, which I think is a slap in the face. On top of that the change of the FAQ was disgusting.

Wait, did I read that correctly? You spent over a thousand dollars on the gem store for fluff-items but you’re not willing to spend 50$ for an actual expansion?
Well played sir, well played..

You really have no clue on why half the people are upset here do you. It’s not the money to them it’s the shady business practice and low content value.

Straylight.7529:

GeekDavid.2786:

Straylight.7529:

1) The majority of players do not post on the forums. That’s a fact.
2) That majority of non-forumgoers can either feel happy, indifferent or unhappy about the game.
3) It’s far more likely that the happy and indifferent players combined are a bigger portion than the unhappy players. Why? because if it was the other way around we would suddenly have a majority of players complaining on the forums since unhappy people are the only ones who complain…and that would interfere with sentence 1).
4) Therefore we can deduce that the complainers are in the minority.

As you can see we don’t need numbers to prove that. All it needs is logic and some common sense.
Also it doesn’t matter if you understand this or not (though I hope you will). All that matters is that Arenanet understands it.

I think before the announcement I’d posted less than a half a dozen times on the forums.

Since the announcement I’ve posted quite a few more, and have not been in-game except for a few minutes to gauge my guild’s reaction to it (it wasn’t “I can’t wait to spend $50 on this expansion!” for the record).

I just proved your logic incorrect.

What? no you didn’t.

The only thing you proved is that you’re an unhappy person who found his way to the forums to complain.

Also you’re still one person no matter how often you post on the forums.

You’re still in the minority.

edit: I’m not saying your complaints are invalid. Just saying that the complainers who post on the forum do not represent the majority. They represent the vocal minority.

Just spouting numbers followed by sentences does not make it fact. What you are saying here is pure speculation.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

If it’s all subject to change then clearly HoT has promised nothing. You can not say for a fact what if anything is in HoT. The only thing we know for FACT is that Anet is charging full purchase price upfront for something that is entirely subject to change.

“Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.” Again do you know this for FACT? NO? Then “maybe” you should stop telling people this.

Then don’t preorder. Like I already said numerous times: If you’re insecure, don’t preorder. Preorders are for people who’re confident that everything’s going to turn out to their satisfaction.

Can’t you read? I said “Maybe Anet will do free to play weekends”. That’s not a fact. I simply tried to offer a solution. Maybe there’s going to be one of those weekends and it might help you in your decision on whether to buy HoT or not.

Again with the “insecure” bit. If all you have are insults then have no argument or justification for defending Anet’s shady business tactics. Logic is lost on you.
Does Anet know you’re handing out free HoT weekends?

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Everything is subject to change and we all know that. HoT has offered a list of features. You can find the list on their homepage. It’s certainly not “nothing” like you said.

I’m not trying to sway people’s decisions. I said “wait and see how it turns out”. That’s the exact opposite of telling you whether to buy it or not.

I’m simply saying that we don’t know the full content list of HoT and therefore can’t say whether $50 is a reasonable price or not. I’m also offering a solution: if you’re insecure about purchasing HoT, don’t preorder. Wait until it releases and you’ll have an easier time making up your mind. Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.

Where do you see a BS lie? I don’t see one.

If it’s all subject to change then clearly HoT has promised nothing. You can not say for a fact what if anything is in HoT. The only thing we know for FACT is that Anet is charging full purchase price upfront for something that is entirely subject to change.

“Maybe Arenanet will even do a free to play weekend where you can try out HoT for a couple of days for free.” Again do you know this for FACT? NO? Then “maybe” you should stop telling people this.

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

HoT has offered nothing yet? C’mon…put some effort into your arguments.
They do not demand payment. No one demands anything from you. It’s your choice whether to preorder or not.
I’m not working for Arenanet. It was just an idea. Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not. I’m not making things up.

No one forces you to preorder HoT. Just wait and see how it turns out. Is that so difficult for you?

Just what has HoT offered that is not subject to change?
“Could help some people in their decision whether to purchase HoT or not.” That is exactly what you trying to do. You’re trying to sway people’s decisions on whether or not to purchase HoT based on your BS LIE!

Straylight.7529:

NecroN.8306:

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

What content? What little (and I mean little) Anet has told us about this expansion is that it’s all subject to change. So we don’t know what they are really selling us do we. Anet could choose not include anything and hide it in yet another Gem-store transaction. Anet is by no means “giving” anything away.

If you’re insecure about how much HoT has to offer, don’t preorder. Wait until release, watch some reviews, maybe there’s even going to be a “free to play weekend” and purchase later. Problem solved.

“insecure”? HoT has offered nothing yet, but they demand full payment in advance. And as far as a “free to play weekend” do you work for Anet to make such concessions? If not then stop making things up.

Would you give your money up and sign a contract to purchase a car before you know what kind of car, or even if it’s a running car.

Straylight.7529:

Ragnadriel.2879:

Almost completely stopped playing due to lack of content, and now you have ensured that I will definitely not be coming back. Bye bye!

By giving you more content? The very lack thereof that made you almost stop playing?

Jeez, the logic of some people..

What content? What little (and I mean little) Anet has told us about this expansion is that it’s all subject to change. So we don’t know what they are really selling us do we. Anet could choose not include anything and hide it in yet another Gem-store transaction. Anet is by no means “giving” anything away.

Null Shock.3745:

I get the whole bit about wanting a free character slot with the basic package, but people complaining about paying $50 for an expansion of a MMORPG with no monthly fee. I am willing to throw down cash that 90% of the people complaining buy gems with in game gold, or at least haven’t spent over $20 Real world money in the gem store. . .You sound like entitled brats. The $50 dollar price is fair. Think of it as paying the monthly fee for the last however many years you have been playing. Even then you would have payed a lot more in subscription fees in a lot of cases(Like people who have been playing since GW2’s launch).

I also have read things about the Final Fantasy expansion being $40. . .They also have to pay a subscription fee. WoW expansions were about $40 at time of each release, plus the subscription fee. Do any of you know how much goes into development? Server maintenance? $50 is a small price compare to other MM The only thing I agree on is that all versions of the EXP should come with at least one free character slot(Maybe 1 for the basic, 2 for Deluxe and ultimate. . .Or just one across the board.)

No you are not paying for GW2 twice, you are buying the kitten ed expansion, noobs get the core for free, which is good. We have an awesome community, the best in any MMO I have played as of late. I am proud of our community(Not when this topic comes up though.). If this monumental fail of a topic was not an issue, you all are likely great people to game with. . .Hell I may have played or talked in map chat with a few of you in the Silverwastes,Lion’s Arch, WvW, or World Boss Runs. So Decide, buy it, or don’t. . .Just stop ruining the forums, and map chat. If you have issues take them up with support.

This is all I want to say regarding this topic. I will not argue with anyone about this, so if that is your intent, do not expect me to reply. Though I hope to see you in game.

This tired old argument is getting old. The Subscription comparison does not apply here. They are entirely two different business models. Anet’s GW2 model makes it’s money through micro-transactions at the gem store as well as the purchase of the core game. By your logic Anet should charge $100, $1000, or even $10,000 just because we should be thankful they did not change their business model on us?

Frightlight.3796:

sanelson.4028:

Jesus Christ… I can’t even write a constructive comment right now due to all the rage I’m feeling…I’ll just come back later.

Well this is the generation of people that feel entitled to having things for free or paying less too get more. Making a good game costs money as people that want this game too continue we should be happy to do what we can to keep it going. Imagine if anet said we have decided not to release HOT and are shutting down the gw2 servers because of financial trouble would people flock to help?

Entitled? Free? I have received nothing for free from Anet. I have purchased everything I have or earned it playing. Anet’s unscrupulous marketing tactics and overpriced unknown content is whats at play here. If Anet cant treat their loyal customers with some respect and gratitude then shut the servers down.

Otokomae.9356:

Well, people keep speculating about why HoT was $50 at all, saying that the free game for new players is factored in, or because Warlords of Draenor was $50 (the most expensive expansion in WoW’s history, and tied w/ HoT for the most expensive MMO expansion ever, atm), or that maybe there is just a mountain of new content that Anet hasn’t shown us yet that makes this kitten expansion.

But, if you go back to January 8 (a few weeks BEFORE HoT was even announced), you can find a a 2015 Yearly Projections statement made by Daewoo Securities, currently the LARGEST stock brokerage and investment bank in South Korea, in which they said that NCSoft would release an expansion called Heart of Thorns (weeks before the announcement) and then projected that Anet would sell at least 2 million copies of the expansion at $50 each. This is not a “guess” by analysts about the positive outcome, this was the largest brokerage in Korea saying “You need to sell 2 million copies of this expansion for $50 each or you will NOT make your quarterly projections for the end of 2015”.

You can read a summary of this on Daewoo Securities website here: http://goo.gl/ziO33b

This is essentially like Goldman Sachs telling a company “You must raise the price of your products by 15% this year, or your stock price will drop”. Goldman Sachs, of course, has no authority to actually raise those prices, but as the largest investment bank in the US, they can do more than just predict how stock prices will move.

So that’s it. $50 is the price. It kind of has to be. Maybe Anet will throw in some extras, I don’t know. But if you’re wondering “Why are they giving away the core game w/ the expac”, it’s it NOT entirely because they want to increase the game’s population in order to give everyone playing a better experience. It’s not even about adding more customers to the Gem Store, or anything like that. NCSoft was given a mandate from the most powerful investment bank in the country that essentially said “You must sell 2 million copies of this product at $50 each just to meet yearly projections… or else!”

So yeah, don’t expect a price drop.

So that’s the trick. Have your investors throw out some unrealistic numbers well in advance and say well that’s it your stuck nothing we can do. They can reach their unrealistic goal without my money.

Face it. The fact that they changed the FAQ entry to now include the base game and expansion shows premeditation.
Oh I like that word. Say it again. MUFASA!

bubalu.8301:

mrstealth.6701:

As for the claim made in the original version of the FAQ, there is no mention made of HoT purchases including GW2. The heavily implied intent of the text is that a previous, separate purchase is required. This where #3 comes in; “has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience”. This establishes that even implied false information in a manner that might deceive is enough to consider the company guilty of false advertisement.

Unless you’re reading the actual statute, the link provided by the person who brought it up does not have any redacted text.

I think you mean #2 which is “the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience” while #3 is “the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience.”

I don’t see the heavily implied text where a previous, separate purchase is required. Granted, I only have experience with a handful mmo expansions, but the ones I have experience with allow a person to buy the base game at the time of the expansion, if you don’t have the base game already.

This situation is no different. Anet has just made it more convenient for those who don’t have the base game already. It’s an incentive for new customers much like how cable companies throw in a couple months free of a premium channel to new customers.

So you don’t receive money or other forms of compensation from Anet or NCSOFT?

bubalu.8301:

NecroN.8306:

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

Someone else already accused me of working for Anet so do you guys have some inside knowledge about a future job offer from Anet to me? Because that would be most excellent.

And thanks for recognizing my mad armchair-lawyering skills.

Really? Someone else did? Why would anyone think that? I think you need to go back and look who posted it to make sure!

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Nice try Anet.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

“Proof Requirement
To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things:

(1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser’s own or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activity; (FAQ said “BUY GW2 NOW!! U NEED IT FOR EXPANSHUN!!”)

(2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (Anyone during the time the FAQ was active)

(3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience;
(Do I even need to explain this one again?)

(4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and
(Not relevant afaik)

(5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement’s potential to injure a customer. [I]The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. [/I] False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

You are going to armchair-lawyer it up with elements of a federal criminal statute? Meaning prosecution is done by the federal government and not individuals. Furthermore, you are also saying that element 4 does not apply when ALL the elements of a statute has to be met to be guilty of said crime? (Seriously, you could have at minimum said that buying the game gives you access to the Anet servers which are located in a different state, and it would thus count as an interstate service.)

But let’s humor you and overlook the fact that the elements are for a federal criminal statute and you basically said the 4th element has not been met. So ignoring your irrelevant editorializing of what you think the faq said and actually quoting the previous version of the faq,

“Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion? A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.”

It looks like the answer is yes, you need to own GW2 to play the expansion. And unless you know something about the HoT code that we do not, it looks like that is true. So therefore, no false statement of fact has been made.

Addressing your editorializing about having to buy the game, there is nothing about having to buy GW2 before HoT. Yes, it says you have to own the game, but you can buy GW2 later or at the same time or have the nice people of Anet give it to you free for buying HoT.

Now, if you still feel like a crime has been committed, you can contact the US attorney general or your state attorney general (because your state probably has some false advertising laws too).

Looks like Anet’s attorney is in da house. All rise the Kangaroo Court is in session.

Windsagio.1340:

The joke to me is all these people that are filled with utter agony that someone gets a gift and they don’t.

No the joke is Anet led people to believe that they had to purchase the core game before HoT came out order for them to play HoT, but that was not true. Anet changing their FAQ proves that they misled customers into buying something that was going to be included with the expansion.

Gomssi.7246:

NecroN.8306:

dervix.9126:

NecroN.8306:

dervix.9126:

NecroN.8306:

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Yet another freshly made Anet damage control account.. This is just getting pathetic.

You’ve got a lot of tinfoil on your head, buddy.
Just because Bubalu didn’t post before this doesn’t mean it’s ‘freshly made’. They have a character in-game with 25,238 AP and are currently playing in WvW as I talk.

Sure. Whatever you want to think. For people like Bubalu with strong vocal opinions to remain silent on the hundreds of controversial topics till now is nill, but whatever you say.

I have been playing for months and I’ve barely posted on the forums either. Apparently the 25 thousand AP and the account currently in use is not enough for me to prove it to you. Add them yourself.

Did I touch a nerve our something? I said whatever you say.

sigh NecroN is a freshly made account by a WoW player. just trolling.

No, really.

The problem is the marketing, the price is a small problem, very small… unless people play Guild Wars 2 really don’t have a job.

The problem is everyone FEELS jipped because new players are getting a free copy of a very old game…

The problem is recent new players have to contact customer support to get close their discounted copy of core so they can save 10 dollars to buy HoT with free core.

Reality is if they did not announce any “freebies” and said 50 bucks.. people will buy the game moan a little and move on.

A better move is to have another 10 dollar sale on core on this announcement… everyone wins.

So the best move is to sell everything for a price and never give it away. Humans are naturally, hmm.. people on the internet are easily irritated by trivial things like someone else getting a freebie they cannot get. Anet should know better based on the reaction of people that couldnt grind a portal stone, when people are announcing they got 3 in 1 hour.

Nice one wish I would have thought of that. hehe

The price per content value is the issue tho. Anet is getting full price for little content, and most of that little content is not even confirmed. Anet is demanding full payment upfront for something that does not even exist yet.

dervix.9126:

NecroN.8306:

dervix.9126:

NecroN.8306:

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Yet another freshly made Anet damage control account.. This is just getting pathetic.

You’ve got a lot of tinfoil on your head, buddy.
Just because Bubalu didn’t post before this doesn’t mean it’s ‘freshly made’. They have a character in-game with 25,238 AP and are currently playing in WvW as I talk.

Sure. Whatever you want to think. For people like Bubalu with strong vocal opinions to remain silent on the hundreds of controversial topics till now is nill, but whatever you say.

I have been playing for months and I’ve barely posted on the forums either. Apparently the 25 thousand AP and the account currently in use is not enough for me to prove it to you. Add them yourself.

Did I touch a nerve our something? I said whatever you say.

dervix.9126:

NecroN.8306:

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Yet another freshly made Anet damage control account.. This is just getting pathetic.

You’ve got a lot of tinfoil on your head, buddy.
Just because Bubalu didn’t post before this doesn’t mean it’s ‘freshly made’. They have a character in-game with 25,238 AP and are currently playing in WvW as I talk.

Sure. Whatever you want to think. For people like Bubalu with strong vocal opinions to remain silent on the hundreds of controversial topics till now is nill, but whatever you say.

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Yet another freshly made Anet damage control account.. This is just getting pathetic.

KPOBb.8476:

I don’t get the Veteran entitlement position.

KPOBb.8476 I see your account is about 3 hours old. What dev/moderator created you? So this is how Anet does damage control; with fake accounts. Nice.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

That’s a complete JOKE! This small amount of content in no way justifies $50.00. What world are you people living in?

You justify $50.00 just because you’re throwing in the base game that everyone has. REALLY? You people are a complete JOKE! I will never give you $50.00 for this tiny expansion. EVER.

“you range?” What an insult to everyone who has had to work hard for their money.

That better not be the price. I will never pay $50.00 for add-on content. EVER!

StickerHappy.8052:

Teutos.8620:

StickerHappy.8052:

Do you play weekly cups? High tier pvp? ToL?

No, I don’t. Since I can’t see my MMR, hard to tell at which level I’m playing.
Still don’t get your point. I am not good enough to participate in the WTS, but I also don’t have a problem playing mesmer in normal ranked pvp.

Still, every (except one) top mesmer switched away from mesmer to be more effective in the WTS. Do you know any facts, that I don’t know?

Just telling you, that the argument, that Robert is focused on pvp is wrong, otherwise the profession would not be in it’s current state (= not played at the WTS-tier).

So where are you getting that Mesmer is underwhelming in PvP?

Are other people’s experience with mesmer a reflection of yours? So there’s only 1 mesmer in EU top tier, so Is that enough to say mesmer is underwhelming in pvp?

A lot of us mesmers here play competitively in PvP.

Again that guy Robert has made a lot of better changes for mesmers and still you people are not contented?

I would take the changes robert made any day than the state we had before.

And this is how mediocrity is born.

The Mesmer is a 100% JOKE! All my other classes are much easier to play and far more rewarding. End of story.

@Sebrent
I hear what your saying and how you’re looking at, but given Anet’s track record with the Mesmer I was totally seeing this as per cast. I hope I’m wrong.

Thanks..

@Sebrent
The point is that the current master trait 20% reduction to all GS skills as it stands is far superior. Versus the new GM trait at 2% per spatial surge that give diminishing return as your cd’s count down.

Sebrent.3625:

Rampager’s stats:

• High precision means that you and your clones will crit often … more bleeds & confusion
• Power means you won’t hit like a wet noodle … just won’t hit like a berzerker
• Condition damage means your conditions will hurt … not as much as Rabid/Carrion/etc. … but quite a bit.

As far as what you need to do to get the cooldown … they mentioned it was Mesmer’s autoattacks AND the clones’ autoattacks.

A Mesmer with just 3 greatsword clones (don’t know why you don’t have a phantasm, ignore that, lol) is going to have each clone hitting 3 times every ~1.5 (see wiki for: 1.4) from 1,200 range without having to worry about anti-projectiles … applying bleeding and confusion on crits.

On top of that, they will be reducing the cooldown of your Greatsword skills. Whether the Mesmer is auto-attacking or doing something else is irrelevant.

If you could share your Mesmer-tank build so that we all could attack 100% of the time that would be grand.
Back to the real world now. Clones get one-shotted. Clone replacements have cool downs= no damage. Mesmer’s need to run, dodge, hide, move out of ark=no damage. As all your GS cd’s count down the less percentage of this traits cd abilities become. If you just happen to lower your cds by 6-8% the first 10 seconds of a 20 second cd means you will be lowering it even less when it gets into its last 10 seconds of cd.
The current trait as it stands does a 20% cd for all GS abilities and it’s only a master. So you might want to rethink your opinion on just how great you think this new trait is going be for your build.

keenlam.4753:

This thread should be closed. It is disrespectful on so many levels and I have trouble understanding what OP is complaining about.

Only if you could see my face. Then you could tell how many yucks I give about how you feel on so many levels.

You clearly have no idea that the OP is not understand how the Dev’s came up with the justification for the change. Yet your lack of understanding did not stop you from crying to have him censored. Clearly there is a government job just waiting for you to fill it.

In order to make this underwhelming trait even remotely useful; you need to attack 100% of the time. Something you can rarely do. There is NO sane reason to make this lackluster trait a GM. NONE! I would rather have it remain the same at master level, and then it’s still only MeH.

I guess I shouldn’t expect much from Anet anyways in regard to the Mesmer. Oh well back to my Ranger..

There is some really good stuff in here. I hope someone is paying attention, but I wont hold my breath..

I’ve already stopped playing my Mesmer, and switch between my Ranger and Guardian. I guess that means yes I will be playing the Revenant and not looking back.

I say let the Engi’s have it, and then the Dev’s can delete the Mesmer class all together.. Who cares about this worthless class anymore.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Zenith.7301:

Kazhiel.8194:

Who cares about PVE o.o WVW and PVP ftw.

zerg play or dealing with turret engis and shoutbows and thieves sounds like so much fun…

As opposed to free casting, face tanking, 1 spamming mindless AI.

It’s a wonder why anyone plays any aspect of this game at all :p

Because a lot of those aspects of the game are broken or useless. Who cares if there broken we should be playing them for fun not effectiveness right.

Now where the hell did I put my spirit weapon??

Ross Biddle.2367:

So I asked my Anet buddy why Mesmers are so limited in mainhand weapons?

Perhaps the limitation is in HIS mind, and not in the class.

So there you go.

Oh yes. It’s not Anet limiting main-hand weapons for Mesmers, but the players limited mental capacity on how to use those limited weapons. And this is what fly’s for customer relations with Anet.. Nice!!

I’m going to start limiting my customers to my two choices and blame them when their not happy with them. If it works for Anet why not me right.

It’s kinda like waiting for a cpu. You just know you’re going to rock games with it, but when the doorbell rings and you jump up to open it you find a burning bag of cr*p..

I for one have VERY low expectations that ANET will do the Mesmer any kind of justice.

OreoWolf.9564:

NecroN.8306:

denis.9487:

Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!

Now I know you’re tolling.. No one and I mean NO ONE fears a Mesmer..

Seriously other classes can accomplish what a Mesmer can do in half the time with minimal deaths, but if you like pain with little reward then the Mesmer class is for you. I would not start any crafting or sink gold into soulbounds until you truly think this trash class is for you.. Oh and get used to being kicked from groups just because of your class.. (got a portal?). I would try other classes just to compare and you will see for yourself.

Oh LOOK OUT!!! Here comes NecroN’s Mesmer.. Haahaa OMG thats a good one… Thanks I needed that laugh.

Weird, all these try hard Cele elementalist/engis seem to fear me :X. Maybe they are just giving me free kills because I chose to play a suboptimal class

Please tell us all the players names that told you that they fear your obviously op Mesmer?….. What was that??…. Oh you said “seem” I’m sorry nevermind..

I think they made it painfully obvious. They want us to play Elementalist..

ASP.8093:

NecroN.8306:

No one and I mean NO ONE fears a Mesmer..

My WvW guild typically fields about 1/3 mesmers, 1/2 rangers. We’re plenty scary.

Mobs usually are.

You can come up with any reasoning you like, but the fact is this happens all the time.

Nyhmz.3672:

So…..

I’ve been looking into doing level 80 stuff for a while on my mesmer. I read up on some guides and I always make sure to fully read a guide on the dungeon I’m about to go into.

Yet every time I go look around to find a group to do anything I always get the same-ish answer, “Do you have a zerk warrior/ele/thief?” I say that I don’t and they usually give a response along the lines of “Well reroll you kittenlord”

Is that a common thing that it gets hard to get into any PvE with a mesmer? Since the game has come out I’ve only been doing sPvP so I’m nowhere near a beginner but I’m quite confused as to how I’m supposed to even do dungeons if I always get told to bugger off.

I wouldn’t even know how to start looking for a guild that would welcome players like myself who have a lot of experience in PvP but little to none in PvE and that wouldn’t mind actually bringing me along for stuff.

So yeah, what should I do? I don’t really wanna roll a class that doesn’t interest me in the slightest and I just generally don’t like alts :/

Not just me..

denis.9487:

Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!

Now I know you’re tolling.. No one and I mean NO ONE fears a Mesmer..

Seriously other classes can accomplish what a Mesmer can do in half the time with minimal deaths, but if you like pain with little reward then the Mesmer class is for you. I would not start any crafting or sink gold into soulbounds until you truly think this trash class is for you.. Oh and get used to being kicked from groups just because of your class.. (got a portal?). I would try other classes just to compare and you will see for yourself.

Oh LOOK OUT!!! Here comes NecroN’s Mesmer.. Haahaa OMG thats a good one… Thanks I needed that laugh.

As of right now the Mesmer is the most disappointing train wreck of a class.. There is just about zero synergy between the skills and traits; making you spend your trait points all over the place. There have been sooo many nerfs done to the mesmer that just finding viable build is near impossible, and even if you do it will be sub-par next to the Thief or Ele’y. You will forever kick yourself for wasting time and effort into this scrub class..

Mesmer’s are a DEAD class.

I’ve got the solution. The Dev’s just need to Nerf the GS just a bit and no one will ever play a Mesmer again… BAMN!!!! problem solved..

Do it Dev’s.. Just do it and you will never hear one of us whining Mesmers again.

Doooo iiiit!!!

WoW yet another off-hand..
I’ve noticed that most of if not all the other classes are getting a main hand weapon, but the mesmer is getting another off-hand. Lets look at the 2 we get now. The scepter is situational at best, and the sword is just meh. I’m for you guys just nerfing the greatsword just a bit more so that everyone will quit playing mesmers all together.

Yes I think I will play the Guardian using the Longbow now.. You’ve made my choice quite clear. Thanks.