(If this reads a bit like a ramble, please bear with me; my reasoning isn’t one developed line of thought but rather a heap of independent evidence and comparisons.)
They’re at least on an even foot with the other races magically, and they’re decades ahead in technology. If you look at the Pact, their contributions are at the very least the most visible. The civilized centers of Tyria are tied together only by asura tech, which the asura jealously maintain control of. Every weapon we had that was capable of harming Zhaitan was asuran. While there had have to be huge and multitudinous changes to the circumstances of the other three races if they’re ever to get a shot at ruling the continent, the charr and asura are each only one problem away from it.
To go back to what I was saying last post, those two races were raised to the point that humanity held in the last game, but instead of doing the same for the norn and sylvari they wrecked humanity and then left all three to wither in shade, as it were.
I totally agree with Aaron on this. I should also note that the writers seem to have a short memory in terms of the Norn. Why is the Tier 3 Cultural Heavy armor a Stag design? It should be Bear. Its common to hear the Norn shout: “By the Bear” especially around Hoelbrak.
But back on topic. Humanity is obviously way behind both the Asura and the Charr. And this stems from side-lining the Six Gods&Goddess. That actually is fact. Without these deities the Human Lore becomes devoid of any color and staves creativity in terms of ploy and story options that would be of continental importance. This is also fact.
While I’m not saying that Humanity should ever become dependant on their deities their situation is Dire it can be little worst. Their apparent lack of technology makes me seriously question how they built Divinity’s Reach! In all honesty I do not believe the city can exist based on existing Lore.
For Divinity’s Reach to be built by Humanity for Humanity their level of technology has to be much, much more visually obvious. At this point it time the is not sufficient evidence of it. At this point of time I believe that it could be argued that the city is a mesmeric illusion casted and powered by Queen Jennah.
I do agree that humans should be shown to be will and able to proper on their own without active interference from their deities but they current are not worthy of any respect by either the Charr or the Asura and especially not the Alliances that are now causing pain to all. And so agree with the current story direction cannot be acceptable by any fan of Humanity in Tyria(Ascalon/Kryta/Orr) at this time.
Whilst where the gods came from is an extremely interesting matter it is unlikely to shed any light on anything. And lore-wise the gods are not poorly developed, it’s just the GW2 kind of spun a few things around in it’s attempt to make the game less human-centric and in the process downplays and sets aside the human gods.
While I acknowledge that I should have re-read Guild Wars Wiki on some points I raised, I still hold that this above widely accept position is disagreeable to me.
Firstly if the Six Gods are major deities, comparable to the Elder Dragons:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gods_of_Tyria, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Exodus_of_the_Gods, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/History_of_Tyria
They should not have been effective set to the side, to excuse their action of reducing humanity to a rump of their former strength in Tyria! This is with little doubt the writers intention!
While I will not go into other points of Lore that connect with this such as the Foefire and the Ascalonian exodus to Kryta. It is clear that Humanity is more vulnerable than most would assume. Now more than ever Humanity needs every advantage available – they can’t even secure their lands from the centaurs effectively. And are bearly holding on to their last portion of Tyria (Note my Edonhawke post).
I believe that the Six Gods&Goddess of Tyria should make their presence felt more in some way that would measurable aid Humanity recover some respect. The Lore at present, I believe has gone way too far against them.
That’s or Aaron. Its part of the territory. But I do believe that the Six Gods (including the Lyssa twins: Lyss and Llya http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lyssa – counted as one apparently) are poorly developed Lore wise. And I do not agree with them being set aside and essentially put into the “too hard pile”.
The question of their association beings to the fore: what is the difference in power/divinity comparatively? Are the Six Gods that the humans worship equal to the Elder Dragons? Are they as I suggested the extension of the deities will or the creation of them?
While it may be true that the Gods came to Tyria through the Mists. Why did they come? What caused Abbadon to to turn against the others? Did the other 5 discover that it was Abbadon that gave Magic to the peoples of Tyria thus causing the rift? He was after all the God of among other things of Knowledge.
Its clear that these questions illuminate many important missing points of Lore.
The Elder Dragons: Are they the corrupted forms of the Six Gods and Goddess? Or an extension of their will?
If so that would make for a very interesting twist in Tyrian Lore.
*Obi-kittenenobi not as auto corrected.
The Trahearne character is a mistake. He plays too important a role within our character’s Personal Story. Seriously I don’t know why any player would support his position unaltered.
To clarify. In the Personal Story of our characters it should be OUR character that is chosen to lead the Pact NOT Trahearne. Trahearne should play the “Obi-kittenenobi” role – a wise elder/shaman/advisor.
From a role player perspective I do believe that the execution of the Living Story series as a mistake. The Living Story releases should always have been the continuation of our character’s Personal Story after the events in Orr. This would mean that Destiny Edge npcs would recognise our characters. Which brings us to the next issue with the Living Story series. Where are the Orders of Tyria in Living Story plot lines?
Any move made my our characters should result in members of our Order becoming a part of said character’s Living Story experience.
I voted for Captain Ellen Keil because she was both competent and a Human. I would like to see Captain Keil help the Lion’s Arch – Captain’s Council ensure that an invasion plans again the city be known and the city prepared.
Remember at this point in the GW2 Lore timeline the events of Claw Island (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Battle_of_Claw_Island) are recent events as well as the events of the Aetherblade pirates attempted invasion.
Ellen Keil is now our elected representative – by popular vote. And as such he should be recognised as such. While the losing candidate should remain seen as a repected citizen of Lion’s Arch he should not be seen as a traitor that is planning to support any action against the interest of the city.
I am sure that Captain Keil would wish to continue to work with Evon Gnashblade and other prominent citizens of Lion’s Arch.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
While its obvious that the Charr were depicted as both merciless and purely evil in GW it is also clear now that this stance has somehow changed some time in to past 250 years. And so the discourse must now be: how does the humans of Ebonhawke move forward as a people?
How does Human Ascalon become independently viable as a city state? To me this would require at least a partial Lore reversal. Since it would require humanity to claim the hinterland of Ebonhawke and Serenity Temple. I see Serenity Temple having a settlement/town built around it, garrisoned by Ebon Vanguard troops.
This change to me is required since without it there is no logical reason for humans to maintain a settlement within the borders of Ascalon. This is the harsh reality. Logan Thackeray as Gwen and Keiran’s decendant would not wish this but that will be the result of the Lore stands unaltered. I would also suggest that the Lore surrounding him should be clarified.
Logan Thackeray and his now dead brother Dylan would now be seen as sons of Ebonhawke made good. Logan obvious now wields considerable influence in the court of the Krytan Queen, Jennah. This power could be used to the advantage of Ebonhawke.
Also, I do not know why ArenaNet writers remains coy about the romance between the two. Perhaps Logan is now looking in the direction of Lady Kasmeer Meadehttp://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kasmeer_Meade?
I think the discourse here has gone too far in terms of what exactly is the historical motivations and intentions of the humans and charr in Ascalon which is of course an important foundation to form opinions of what the future shape of Ascalon might look like. And in particular how this future will affect the influence of Humanity as a whole in Tyria (Ascalon/Kryta/Orr).
Please note: I am leaving out at this time Cantha , Elona (and the Northern Shiverpeaks – to a slightly lesser extent) within the GW2 world.
As in seems there is no confirmed word as to when or if ArenaNet will ever be re-including into the life of our characters and their peoples their lost heritage. I think I can speak for most that this is one of the most cherished wish of all loyal GW fans.
From what can piece together from all my readings and through playing through the Guild Wars campaigns on several characters – some Ascalonian, some not. I have not seen any evidence that the Charr have any claim to Ascalon south of The Great Northern Wall as the humans who built it call it.
THe Charr like the Grawl were a nomadic people. However unlike the Grawl, the Charr showed no inclination to negotiate or live in peace with a neighbour – indeed they acted brutally and mercilessly to all who oppose or got in their way.
And so when they saw that humans had entrenched themselves in the southern half of Ascalon they were far from pleased. And so the Charr claim to all of Ascalon as a Homeland is far from legitimate it is false. In Guild Wars the Charr were not shown to have built and permanent structures in ANY part of Ascalon. At best they can only claim Ascalon to the north of the Wall, since they can show proof that they hunt in that part of Ascalon.
Humanity has therefore have better claim to Ascalon south of the ruins of the Wall as compared to the Charr or any recognised race in Tyria.
What I’d like to see in GW2 is of course and Expansion of the game that merges both the “Living Story” monthly releases and the main storyline. In terms of the main storyline I’ll like to see Destiny’s Edge work with some of the decendants of the heros and heroines of GW(1) as well as working with the new-ish characters such as Braham and Rox, Marjory and Kasmeer and of course Ellen Keil and the Captain’s Council.
As for the storylines of the Living Story releases Ill like to see the Molten Alliance make a big move and become an integrated part of the Personal Story along with the above mentioned. And what major expansion will be without the threat of a new Elder Dragon?
I’ll like that to be Jormag. This will mean opening up “new”-old maps in the Shiverpeaks where we will discover the ruins of Gunnar’s Hold and the Eye of the North (ie still keep the GW bonus exclusive to those entitled – like me).
And in keeping with the addition of these maps and extension of Lore ill like to see: Jhavi Jorasdottir (decendant of Jora – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jhavi_Jorasdottir) introduced as an ongoing character and for her to meet Eir Stegalkin and Destiny’s Edge.
It also would be an appropriate time to release both the Kodan and the Dredge as playable races. To go with the release of these two races there could be an update of the services available in major cities such as the ability to personalise your characters home area and for the home area to have a representative of the Order that the character has chosen in it.
As for town life. Ill like to have a costume for all crafting professions apart from the one already available – Cooking. With this addition, I’ll like Fishing/Diving to be included as a craft (I sooooo want my Kodan to have this crafting profession:)))) ).
Finally Ill like to say that a release that includes all/most/some of what I’ve detailed would be awesome and welcomed by many I think.
That fact that Samuelsson continues the traditions of the Thackerays and Langmar leading the defence of Ebonhawke and is committed to ensuring a major human settlement in Ascalon proves that he IS a Separatist (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard) . Since as is well known the Charr have an overwhelming military advantage in Ascalon ever since the the events of Prophecies and years immediately before – there is no other logical reason to maintain and sustain Ebonhawke.
Also the Ebon Vanguard include a number of Ascalonian refugees and ex-prisoners of the Charr (ie Gwen) that were willing and able to fight. These same types of people are now branded as “Separatists” in GW2.
Queen of the Krytans, Jennah would prefer that the people of Ebonhawke all move to Kryta wholesale. This is certainly the opinion of her ministers as per conversations in Divinity’s Reach.
The details of Devona and friends movements are very limited at best outside what was needed for the release of the other GW campaigns. A deliberate act on the part of the writers who needed to solidify the Charr’s “rightful” claim over Ascalon. This is false in my opinion.
More to the point. The Humans of Tyria especially Queen Jennah and her ministers know that the interests of humanity and that of the Orders of Tyria do not match in the long term. Humanity needs to recover as much of Ascalon as possible to regain at least some of their former status. To limit themselves to Kryta is not in their best interest.
The Ascalonians in Ebonhawke are not Separatists O_o. SOME of them are separatists and certainly there are separatist hideouts within Ebonhawke, but the population as a whole certainly are not separatists and neither is Wade… The Charr that they are fighting are the Flame Legion who are considered enemies of both Humanity and of the other Charr factions…
The fact that Jennah and her ministers want Ebonhawke’s citizens to be relocated to Kryta doesn’t tell you a lot other than that they want humanity’s strength to be located in one place to ensure the safety and continuation of their population.
Your last two paragraphs are pure opinion and as such I’m really not sure how to respond to them.
The Charr’s claim over Ascalon is certainly debatable, but it was originally THEIR land. It was taken from them by the Humans and they have now acted to take it back. You’re looking at recent atrocities committed against humanity by the Charr and deciding that humanity is therefore in the right and it’s their land. But in doing so you’re forgetting that at once point humanity committed these same atrocities against the Charr and drove them from their home land…
You’re basically saying that humanity needs to stand on their own without the aid of the other races because somehow that will make them stronger and ensure they aren’t wiped out – the opposite of that is true…. Humanity needs the other races, Tyria is a changing place and without the other races humanity stands little chance of survival, especially if they make enemies of their allies.
You’re also forgetting that Elona and Cantha are/were (we can’t state anything about the present since we can’t go there and don’t have direct contact) human kingdoms. Kryta is not the last bastion of humanity.
Its not? really. How about a little walk into the current state of affairs in these two kingdoms. Starting with Cantha. It is now known as the Empire of the Dragon – under the isolationist and xenophobic imperial rule of Emperor Usoku and his Ministry of Purity. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantha. The Luxon and Kurzick Factions smashed.
And Elona is much, much worst. Palawa Joko has invaded and taken most of Elona. The Sunspears corrupted/smashed as well. Elona is now ruled by the undead. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elona
Only in Kryta do humans live in relative peace and security.
That fact that Samuelsson continues the traditions of the Thackerays and Langmar leading the defence of Ebonhawke and is committed to ensuring a major human settlement in Ascalon proves that he IS a Separatist (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ebon_Vanguard) . Since as is well known the Charr have an overwhelming military advantage in Ascalon ever since the the events of Prophecies and years immediately before – there is no other logical reason to maintain and sustain Ebonhawke.
Also the Ebon Vanguard include a number of Ascalonian refugees and ex-prisoners of the Charr (ie Gwen) that were willing and able to fight. These same types of people are now branded as “Separatists” in GW2.
Queen of the Krytans, Jennah would prefer that the people of Ebonhawke all move to Kryta wholesale. This is certainly the opinion of her ministers as per conversations in Divinity’s Reach.
The details of Devona and friends movements are very limited at best outside what was needed for the release of the other GW campaigns. A deliberate act on the part of the writers who needed to solidify the Charr’s “rightful” claim over Ascalon. This is false in my opinion.
More to the point. The Humans of Tyria especially Queen Jennah and her ministers know that the interests of humanity and that of the Orders of Tyria do not match in the long term. Humanity needs to recover as much of Ascalon as possible to regain at least some of their former status. To limit themselves to Kryta is not in their best interest.
Devona and friends may well have supported Rurik in their travels to Lion’s Arch and beyond but on any return trip to Ascalon City as they would have to return Sohothin to Adelbern they would have been made to be seen to support the word of the King .
Since Devona, Gwen, Mhenlo and friends views would differ to that of Rurik and would have shared many camp fires with the Ebon (Ascalon) Vanguard they would have felted honor bound to support the will of their King, Adelbern. On this matter.
PS: as for this being fanfiction that would require an addition of non-cannon material. mere opinion is not enough. It is safe to assume that Sohothin would have been returned to Adelbern by this group or part of.
Sohothin is known throughout Ascalon City as the sword of Human Ascalon’s Champion. Rurik was that champion as well as being its Crown Prince and next in line to the throne.
Our avatar may not have known but Devona and the members of the party would and did know (please refer to my previous posts). It is enough to say that the heros and heroines of the Flameseeker Prophecies campaign would all collectively along side the Ebon Vanguard from the Eye of the North supported the claim Adelbern would have made:
Their fallen Prince’s dying wish is the security of Ascalon City.
Please also now refer to my post in regards to Rurik’s sword Sohothin. Which I wrote after this piece.
If King Adelbern had received from Devona and her friends, Ascalon City may well have been saved. Since Adelbern could now claim that his son would have wanted his homeland secure despite their differences.
It may be that it be Devona as Adelbern’s new champion that then welds it in battle. She along with Mhenlo, Gwen, Cynn, Aidan and Eve would all supported Adelbern’s claim. The claim that Rurik wanted Ascalon City secure and in human hands.
Stopping the exodus to Kryta
That there my friend is yet another Lore Blackhole. The core heros and heroines: Mhenlo, Devona, Cynn, Aidan, Eve and Gwen who would all have followed our avatar to defeat the Lich and the zombie Rurik would have known of the importance of Sohothin.
On defeating both Rurik and the Lich they would have recovered it and ensured its return to their King – Adelbern. This calls into question as to why the Forefire would ever occur.
Also with Sohothin back in the hands of the Ascalonian King he would have the authority to recall all who had followed Rurik – at the very least he would have been able to slow the exodus of his people to Kryta.
I think there are some critical facts of Lore that most seem to be missing in regards to the Histories of the two races between the events of the Forefire and the events of GW2. Firstly humanity both in Krtya and in Ebonhawke in Ascalon have come together despite their repective leaderships. Both Queen Jennah(Krytan) and Commander Samuelsson (Ascalon) have a workable alliance.
This cannot be said for the Charr. Not entirely. The Flame Legion now works against the other three. Indeed the Flame Legion is now in an alliance with the Dredge the so called “The Molten Alliance”.
This alliance is also of much concern for the Norn and the Kodan.
Queen Jennah is Regent of (Human) Ascalon – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jennah? This has to be a mistake. If not its should be reversed since that honor belongs to the Duke of Ebonhawke – as per a recent post of mine.
Also for convenience: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wade_Samuelsson – clear states Samuelsson’s lineage – thus rightful current claim to the Ascalonian Crown. And thus he is the title holder – King of Ascalon as per events of GW2!
I have already discussed this in my recent Ebonhawke post in the Lore section of the Forums. Essentially yes. I would fight for Human Ascalon under the Duke of Ebonhawke’s banner as my rightful King.
Not Jennah who is the ruler of an allied kingdom – Kryta.
Sohothin belongs to Human Ascalon. Thus if anything it should be returned to the Duke of Ebonhawke, Lord Samuelsson.
Not to the Krytan Queen.
Humans have been given a raw deal by the Lore writers of GW2 overall. They have been placed into a position they cannot recover from. Even their current holdings are far from secure – even around Divinity’s Reach.
Even there its citizens do not have a sense of security. In fact most are scared on some level. For the GW story to advance to the future many plot lines need heavy revision and in many cases reversed (also view my previous post – in the Lore section). The Centaurs for example should be re-cast as much weaker in numbers and level of organisation – thus giving actual and real confidence to players that humans will exist into beyond the events of GW2. And in Ascalon the people of Ebonhawke need to gain the ability to be self-sufficient and to pay respect to Gwen Thackeray and the men and women fort alongside her.
This is because if it becomes too obvious that humans are heading for extinction then there will be no interest in the game since there will not be a human race to speak of – just a few individuals scattered throughout Tyria.
PS: Its already obvious to all fans of GW Lore.
Lord Samuelsson, Duke of Ebonhawke – thus King of Human Ascalon was known as Commander Wade Samuelsson: (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wade_Samuelsson) in the events of the current game – Guild Wars 2. In order to hide his true intentions from an ally he did not trust – Queen Jennah of Krtya and an enemy he cannot challenge directly, he has ordered his soldier to pretend to be rebels and call themselves “Separatists”.
Which of course was always political fiction. His troops and the citizens of the Stronghold of Ebonhawke understood this and supported this fiction by their words and action. With the end of the events of GW2 he would move to rebuild Serenity Temple and force the hand of the Krytan Queen.
He would negotiate official aid from Kryta with terms that allow him a free hand to continue to serve his people and secure a crop/grazing hinterland around Ebonhawke and the Serenity Temple. This move would put the Orders of Tyria in an uncomfortable position – but they will do nothing – since any move by any would be seen as an act of war by all humans – Ascalonians and Krytans alike.
I don’t want the change to account bound WxP. I want it to be awarded as is, and be restricted to the character that earn it – not shared with my other characters within my account.
I refuse this change. not acceptable.
Where they can be of either gender and are customisable like any other character. They would be summonable only in Lion’s Arch and the main towns like Divinity’s Reach/Hoelbrak/Black Citadel/Rata Sum. Maybe the crafting skills of a character be transferred to this said npc character as well to add utility and purpose.
Further all character modifications options would be available so that their appearance and features can be changed in all the ways that a full character can be modified.
Adding race specific dialogue would further enhance this. I think npc spouses will ehance town life and encourage players to socialise in towns more to share their GW2 experiences.
for boss fights a 15 min grace period is too generous. it should be no more than 5 min at a absolute maximum allowance after which said account reverts to character selection screen or sent to the overflow version of that area.
an extended conversation that takes the attention of the player temporarily away from the game, no matter how unforseen is the choice of the player.
thus a player who is not distracted in this way, that is willing and able to contribute to the battle should then be given preference and entry to the boss/dragon event over any and all distracted players up to and including take the place of said distracted players at the expiration of the 5 min grace period for akitteng.
There should be a selection “Cultural” town clothes available such as: Party/Festival wear, Swim wear and maybe High Fashion/Formal wear as in-game purchase options from the main hub towns of each race. Where each set has a version for each playable race.
I would agree that Tier III Cultural Armour should be exotic considering its purchase price in gold per piece.
Having a avatar home for each character is a must to help maintain interest in the game as well as a source of revenue generating since many players would consider making these homes very personalised. Especially if players can furnish their character homes uniquely as in: based on their race the fight class, crafting equipment – say a forge for the metal trades or a cooking stove for chefs to name a few. The list can and is endless.
An expansion pack should be released to maintain the interest of establish players and keep goodwill/confidence in the commitment of Arenanet/NC Soft to Guild Wars 2.
Players would be willing to pay for an expansion especially if they know one is being released every 12 months. As to releasing expansion packs the same rate as the original game – you must be joking as well as insane.
There is now much more serious competition online such as Rift, Aion and SWTOR that provide stronger competition than what Guild Wars faced against. No mentioning that the big gorilla(aka WoW) is still around too.