(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
And you can separate your attachment to your characters and your positions and opinions in regards to Tyrian Lore? I think you’ll be surprise to learn than you are no different. In fact if anything you and others like you are worst in many ways.
Each of my various posts have clearly detailed my point of view, provided supporting material from third party sources and with reasoning that have been based on my personal interpretation of established lore, yet at every turn I meet with almost complete opposition from you both and others.
May I at this point out that I am not anti-Charr. I do believe that they as a people deserve respect and understanding. They are however the enemy of Humanity and no amount of historical re-writing can change this truth, this doom. How can the situation be otherwise? The Charr directly caused the Ascalonian and Orr Holocausts!
If the writers truely wanted grounds for peace between the two peoples, Human and Charr – Tyrian history should have had many elements of what I have suggested. This however is not the case. The die has been cast by the Anet writers and there is now no turning back. And as a result no real grounds for lasting or real peace between the two peoples.
The scale and completeness of the Holocausts in both Ascalon and Orr could not have been much more complete. What has been done cannot be undone – nore can these deeds be forgiven. The crimes committed demands vengeance without end. It seems that the majority are comfortable in the denial of these truths and are completely accepting that actual and real peace is possible with these facts.
These facts mean that even with Elder Dragons threating real and actual extinction the conflict between the two peoples cannot be permanently resolved. Merely shelved for a time after the threat is over and no later.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
It seems people and basically happy or resigned the current reality of the human condition in Tyria and are unable to accept any major change in direction. Im looking at you both FlamingFoxx and Dustfinger. I won’t be surprised if both of you have non-human main characters and do not have a human major character.
But I will suggest this. Even if I were to accept GW2 as a base. I would still suggest changes that may initial appear slight. I have suggested this in the past in a different branch of these forums.
I would suggest that the Separatist actually have the backing and full support of the Ebon Vanguard and that Wade Saumelsson is the true leader of both. The ‘Separatist’ are actually secretly a branch of the Ebonhawke defence force established to damage Charr positions in the Field of Ruins and beyond, as well as gathering intell on Charr movements in the area.
The Separatist are all trained soldiers of human Ascalon, that recognises Lord Samuelsson, Duke of Ebonhawke as their Lord. Their purpose is to de-stablise the Charr in East Ascalon to hide the true intent of Ebonhawke and the Ebon Vanguard. And that intent is to expand control of the Ebonhawke hinterland and establish a self-sufficient Kingdom within South East Ascalon.
Dustfinger read the post of mines that is prior to it (at the very least). what I wrote there is merely an attachment to it. Humanity is should not be powerful because they want to be.
Humans should still be powerful because they have adapted to change as well as help shape it.
My point is not merely to insist that humans be on realtively equal footing with the Charr or any other major existing race of Tyria. Regardless of a new and different zeitgeist.
In ANY writing of a saga there is such a concept call continuity….. the flow of old into the new, the present. The world of Tyria ‘SHOULD’ be no different in that aspect. Yes many changes can and do occur over a period of 250 years. But the past is the past.
The past is not a myth. History informs the present. it guides it, helps shape it. More importantly it cannot be changed. And so I say this to clarify my point of view.
Yes there was and a clear and present need to introduced the other major races of Tyria into the Lore. And that they must be all given there appropriate place in Tyria.
This however can be done without white-washing the past. Which is what I and many believe have occurred. Where I differ is that I do not believe that Anet is merely plugging the holes in the Lore to write a story about Tyria’s present.
For if that were true why is the no mention or acknowledgement of Devona and the Ascalon’s Chosen of history? what of them? She should have had a prominent place in human history. There should be a major statue of her in Ascalon City, with smaller ones in Fort Ranik and Ebonhawke as a heroine and Queen of Ascalon.
The Priory Historians stationed in Ascalon in should make note of her and her place in human history from time to time where appropriate – as they walk around present day Ascalon City or the ruins of the old Serenity Temple when they study the site near the new Serenity Temple and the town that now surrounds it – possibly re-located to present day Fort Ranik due to the effects of the Dragonbrand on the land.
And so while in the past humans were favoured the present cannot ignore what has occurred in the still fairly recent past.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
I stand by my key points both in this and my previous forums. It should be noted that the driving influence as has been mention by others is the direction the Loremaster wish to take the story. Be that as it may – it is the truth.
However it is also the truth that the Searing tore the very fabric of society in Ascalon City and its hinterland – the lands own by the King and the noble families that make up the court of the crown of Ascalon. It would also have shattered the balance of power and caused havoc to the political alliances between the leading nobles.
Too many logical candidates have died either by the war with the Charr or the Searing itself. I hold that if the writers want to be seen to have an unbiased hand in the direction of the Lore as it relates to the humans of Ascalon – Devona MUST become Queen of Ascalon succeeding the throne directly after Adelbern, well before any move by the Charr to move against Ascalon City.
It must be noted that all humans of Ascalon see the land as rightfully theirs to hold so long as their soldiers have the military might to hold it on their behalf. That is to say that the do not accept that the Charr have better claim to the land – regardless of history. This is especially the view of the crown and the nobility.
The writers could easily write that the nobility noting the unrelenting advance of the Charr impress upon Devona to see that her duty to her country is be Queen. Devona as a loyal soldier of Ascalon would accept the will of her people and serve as the monarch of her people.
In regards to Mhenlo, Devona would request that he and Cynn return to Ascalon to serve his country and leave his posting at Shing Jea Monastery effective immediately. This request would be a personal but Royal request from Devona as reigning Queen of Ascalon.
Devona would impress on Mhenlo that Ascalon needs him as it was in dire clear and present danger of being vanquished, with massive lost of human life – as in virtual extinction. This would also confirm the new he Mhenlo would be received from Ascalon from various sources including the Order of Whispers.
It is totally unacceptable that Devona died in battle before she is able to help lead her people to redemption. Since Rurik has already been killed tragically – leaving no obvious candidate as Ascalon’s next champion. Also the siege that leads to the Foefire and the event itself cannot happen – since that would mean that the heros and heroines of human Ascalon as a group are completely incompetent and lack any sort of backbone. The Foefire was just the Lore device used to justify Charr claim to Ascalon. Seeing as its obvious that that event was blamed ultimately an a then insane Adelbern.
Devona is the only human Ascalonian that has the ability and recognition of said ability among the nobility to save human Ascalon – before its too late. And that is the deciding truth as to why she must be made Queen of Ascalon upon Adelbern’s written in death on the battlefield promptly after the return of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray to Ascalon City after their wedding.
Death on the battlefield would give Adelbern both an honourable and heroic death. A death that is just and respectable for a monarch that was highly regarded by all human Ascalonians, who’s time had arrived, and had completed his service to his people.
The events as I’ve suggested would not give humans an unevenly stronger position in the Tyria of GW2. It would merely put them on even footing with the Charr. A position that they had on their own fought for and won based their military might and magical prowse – gained through roughly a thousand years of domination of the Tyrian landscape.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
The Searing changed every assumption and prospect of the status quo in Human Ascalon. The situation could not have been more dire and King Adelbern and the nobility of the Ascalonian people knew it.
With Prince Rurik gone there was no obvious choice as to who could give the people the leadership that would ensure the survival of the kingdom within Ascalon. Thus Bloodlines which would otherwise be a deciding factor would then have meant nothing. Noted only as a historical detail. Survival was all.
The land had just been poisoned beyond recognition by the Searing, crops failing and cattle straving. No room for a political decision as to the succession of the Ascalonian throne. In this environment a Champion the likes of Devona would have been an obvious initial move. They needed to rally the military – with a hero of their own no less.
Choosing Devona was Champion would have been a popular decision as well as the correct one. She had the support of the nobility and King Adelbern. With the Charr pressing their advantage this alone would not be enough. They needed the help of all of Devona’s friends and allies (all the other npc henchmen/women of Ascalonian origin as at the events of the Eye of the North).
With all this now in progress and the advance of the years, a successor would have been need to fill the role that Prince Rurik need to have played. A hero king one that would rally every abled body citizen of human Ascalon. And only one person fits that requirement – Devona. Thus it would follow that the nobility would choose her in order to save their lands and themselves. Devona would then been Crown Queen of Ascalon within 5 years of her return to Ascalon after the wedding of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray.
As Queen Devona would with the help of her friends who would now also hold high office in her kingdom ensure that human Ascalon had the war machine that it could otherwise not have. And never had in living memory. Formal Academies and Training facilities for everything that could support the war effort.
Note that while Devona is a Warrior her friends included Mages and Priests and all were just as committed to the cause – saving human Ascalon.
PS: It is has been made clear in Lore that Right of Settlement of a Land is govern by which people has the military might to capture and hold it.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Oh but I think it has. The Flame Legion now has access to Dredge technology aaaaand a second psycho – Scarlet.
Even if only a faction of the Flame Legion is involved it is no less worrying. The Iron Legion now needs to compete with technology that is a combination of Charr and Dredge – no easy task. That addition changes the game.
The Ash Legion now needs to direct their direct attention to the Moletariate a lot more often – meaning more and new patrol routes.
The Blood Legion doesn’t get off easy either since now the Flame Legion patrols will now have access to better tech and equipment. The frontline has never been as “exciting” as it now – with a lot more soldiers needing services of the med centers.
The three Imperators will be doing a lot more of pacing and releasing stress at their practice range(s) more vigorously than normal. Then there is the distasteful need for asking for help to solve what is traditionally seen as an internal matter from outsiders …. ie the Pact and of the Orders of Tyria.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
I think one of the major issues facing the Charr as a people is this recent alliance the Flame Legion has with the Dredge. The Flame Legion has always been trouble starting with the Flame Shamons forcing upon the Charr the worship of the false gods the Titans to the current threat to the stability of the Charr nation as a whole.
An alliance with the Dredge and combining it with the insanity Imperator Baelfire on its own is a major problem on its own. Adding Scarlet to the situation is like adding an accelerant to an out of control fire storm!
I woud imagine that this situation would feature in coming Living Story releases in the months ahead – mixed with the other alliances.
Its on the way out only because Arenanet whitewash Guild Wars (1) Lore. And wrote the Lore after the wedding of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray to suit the Charr against the interest of Human Ascalon. That’s the truth.
Had the Lore been allowed to progress naturally based on the events of GW1 as I’ve stated in many of my previous posting – Devona would have been crowned Queen of Ascalon after first being appointed his Champion. As Queen she and her friends Mhenlo, Cynn, Aidan, Eve and the others would have made a significant difference.
Their impact on Post-Searing Ascalon on their return from the events of the Eye of the North would have been both measurable and significant. Significant enough to prevent the siege that resulted in the Foefire.
The sum total of their efforts is that present day Ascalon City would remain in human rule. In addition to Ascalon City and Ebonhawke, I see Fort Ranik becoming a major military town with the Ascalonian Miltary Academy there.
Research and Development would remain in Ascalon City along with it being the center of commerce and trade. Ascalon City would also retain the Ascalonian Military Headquarters since Human Ascalon is the frontier for the humans. Mhenlo, Cynn and Eve would establish their own Academy for all branches of Magic in the city as well.
Edonhawke will be a major military base of course but it would serve mainly as human Ascalon’s main industrial and mining center – where the production of heavy weapons and armour is massed produced for the war effort.
Devona, Keiran and Gwen would ensure that they do what they can to make the above come established and let those after them continue their work. Thus ensuring the future of humanity in Ascalon.
As it can be seen humans should have been in a much stronger position in Ascalon in the present day. (Note: I do note accept that Ascalon was ever Charr land in its entirety – the initial Lore of Ascalon does NOT support that claim)
I say pink. to say I’m a girl character regardless of my profession.
As I see it the lands surrounding Ebonhawke is of little military value since large tracks of it is corrupted by the Dragonbrand and thus is not a reliable sources of resources and has no cultural/political significance to the Iron Legion the army that occupies Ascalon on behalf of the Charr warbands.
Since the Charr would see little military value in the Fields of Ruins it would not be a source of conflict between the Legion and the humans. This being so, the humans could be allowed to own the Field of Ruins without any lost of face or honor in so far as the Iron Legion is concerned.
And with the Pact Treaty this decision to allow the human to have that land is made even easier. Seeing as now the humans are now allies to the Charr and thus allies of the Iron Legion. It would also not significantly affect the overall Charr domination of Ascalon.
Thus there is no valid reason for not allowing what I suggest to come to be earlier in this sub-forum.
Foxx I’m all for gay and lesbian relationships be written as part of any complete story along side hetero ones. And as for my viewing interest in other media including RPG games are wide and varied and very open minded. And yes I also have nothing against fanservice where it does not conflict with the flow or the story.
And may I take this opportunity to express the hope that Ellen Kiel be allowed to have a more complete personality rather than a complete workaholic? Maybe even get her a man in her life. Allow her be the lead in the relationship to keep her persona and keep her status in the Lore intact.
My point is that in so far as relationships that are given prominence it seems only the gay ones get pushed into the spotlight. The Logan and Jennah relationship is too chaste – especially with no acknowledgement of attachment on the part of Jennah herself.
Before the confirmation of Marjory and Kasmeer, I would have suggested: Lord Faren and Lady Kasmeer. But with the confirmation of the gay bias for the prominent characters on the part of the Arenanet writing team and the way the characters I’ve listed I would say that Countess Anise is either Bi or Lesbian as well and Lord Faren is in the closet and is himself gay as well.
Only Ellen Kiel can be written as a convincing heterosexual love interest. And if she were to have a man in her life there should already be one that’s among her associates or team.
There are under used characters that could be used for romantic human pairings:
Countess Anise
Lord Faren
Captain Ellen Kiel
All three at present do not have any current or potiential romantic partners that I’m aware of. Each has had fairly prominent roles in current Lore and/or hold high office in either Divinity’s Reach or Lion’s Arch.
Obsidian, what you say may be generally true. But I don’t agree that Arenanet has done a good job of balancing the races. The Humans as a whole are not respected by the other races as a people. The other races may respect certain individuals or organisations but not Humans as a whole.
Humans as a race in GW2 is too weak. The Duke of Ebonhawke’s lands need to be significantly expanded. At the very least The Serenity Temple needs to be rebuilt and there needs to be a human town built around it.
The Territory(Field of Ruins) around Ebonhawke needs to be mostly free of Dragon corruption. The territory should probably re-name Ebonhawke after its most recognised landmark and source of significance. And yes Samuelsson needs to be re-designed and upgraded to a full support character and be recognised as King of Ebonhawke. The fact its this game needs a male character of high rank and significance among at least his people.
Logan Thackeray may be Queen Jennah’s champion but he’s not given enough of a part in the current Lore. And I think the writers has forgotten that he is Ascalonian!!!!
Dilige, I am a Guild Wars (1) player with 30 titles (out of a total of 50) to my name as in I’m a “Closer to the Stars” rank. I do not accept that the Charr had ever any legitimate claim to Ascalonian land south of the Great Northern Wall of the Humans.
I have posted many entries on these forums in the Lore and suggestions sections before the recent reorganisations by Arenanet. I’ve said many things in those posts based on two Lore branches: Accepting the Foefire event or not accepting the Foefire event. I prefer not accepting the Foefire event. And I have built a solid basis for this!
Devona and her band that includes Mhenlo, Cynn, Eve and Aidan and many of the other npc henchmen/women of Ascalon join Adelbern’s guild: Ascalon’s Chosen. After Gwen’s wedding this band returns to Ascalon and helps with the Ascalonian recovery and rebuild. They also add their expertise and knowledge and thus enhancing Ascalonian research and development of magic and military technology including mass production.
Mhenlo, Cynn and Eve are masters of the fields of magic and in many cases, magic is another way of describing advance technology and pure science. The Mages of Ascalon City would have been all ears to learn from them and work with them to further the knowledge they have gain from their adventure throughout Tyria that by then includes the lands of Cantha, Elona and the Shiverpeaks…..
Devona would have been quickly appointed as Adelbern’s and Ascalon’s Chosen’s Champion. She becomes the spear-head of Human Ascalon’s counter offensive. She would work with Gwen and the Ascalon Vanguard (the Ebon Vanguard reclaim their former name under the decree of Adelbern), to buy time for the recovery efforts and the development of better armor and weapons.
The goal being to hold the Charr at the Great Northern Wall, not to defeat them. Ascalon has always been human land by right of first settlement.
Other races may have used Ascalon as part of their hunting grounds but that is not settlement, that is not classed as claiming. Thus the Charr cannot claim that Ascalon was ever theirs!
Human Ascalon would then eventually have Devona as their Queen. As I see her either marrying into Adelbern’s family (Rurik was only the eldest of Adelbern’s heirs) or being put forward by the Ascalonian nobility in much the sam fashion and purpose as they did when they chose Adelbern.
By these designs and actions do the Humans prevent any possible siege of Ascalon City and thus claim and hold Southern Ascalon into the present day (events of GW2).
Tengu might be the best positioned as the next playable race but in terms of Lore progression at this point are not a natural fit. In fact I don’t see a point to them at all due to the progression of Lore since the start of the “Living Story” content.
I have put forward the Kodan and the Dredge as the best two to be add. I believe they both should be add at the same release. They would fit in a expansion release that involves the Far Shiverpeaks+Jormag content.
I would suggest that this is one of the most logical choice as a 1st real expansion content.
I think playable races should come as part of a expansion package and thus be attached to the lore extension allowed by that release. As I wish the next expansion to be in the Far Shiverpeaks that includes the Ruins of Gunnar’s Hold, Olafstead and the Eye of the North (be open to all).
Since this will be a full expansion its only right that we get the next Elder Dragon in line: Jormag…..! (awesome).
The lore would involve the Norn and the Kodans in alliance fighting to re-take the Homelands from the servants of Jormag – the true master of the Molten Alliance….
And so I suggest that(in no particular order):
Kodan
Dredge
Note: This update I would like a major upgrade to the Norn shape-shifting mechanic and the Lore attached to their chosen animal-form. Depending on the animal form chosen the Norn would get certain bonus attached to that form even when not in that form – like elemental attunements for Elementalist:
Bear: Toughness+Conditions Expire faster passive bonus
Wolf: Precision+Condition Damage passive bonus
Snow Leopard: Swiftness+ Damage passive bonus
Raven: Critical Damage+Poison Damage passive bonus
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
There are currently “Home District” instances in each of the racial capitals current. I think it would be awesome if smaller major towns get the same treatment – especially those that already have crafting stations and a trading post such as Lion’s Arch in Kryta and Ebonhawke in the Blazeridge Mountains and others with a full set of crafting stations:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crafting_station
These “Town District”s will enhance the role playing experience of all players.
Also I would like it if characters can stay in the Home District/Town District if they were log-off in one.
First expansion theorycrafting (Jormag, tengu and Far Shiverpeaks)
in Lore
Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187
I overall like the roadmap that Lomani has so comprehensively crafted. I think what he describes if implemented will be done over more than one expansion pack. It is my hope that the first involves the Far Shiverpeaks and of course the Tengu.
I would myself like to see some progression in the Stronghold of Ebonhawke/Ruins of Serenity Temple region. This would include the removal of the Separatist/Renegade situation as a result of regional movement as described by Lomani. I would go as far as to say I would like to see this fortress city become a major Pact supply base.
However Ebonhawke would now be ruled by Samuelsson as King or one of his heirs depending on the timeline of the next expansion. I would also have introduced a decendant of Devona as a major support character. This character will be a female warrior that of course welds a hammer but also uses a rifle as well, since I would have her as the champion of her king and the leader of an elite unit – the Ebon Hawk of the Ebon Vanguard charged with guarding him similar to the Shining Blade.
In effect Ebonhawke gains full capital city status within the mechanics of the game. Part of the talk of the city among the units of both the Ebon Vanguard and the Ebon Hawk and their friendly rivally with the Pact soldiers stationed within their city. The city chatter would also include the usual chatter about Kryta and their Queen.
And this brings the next change Ill like to see. the Ebonhawke Territory now is recognised as a distinct separate political entity with a formal alliance with Kryta. I would have this grouping called the Human Alliance.
In Divinity’s Reach I would see Ebon Hawk units guarding the new Ebonhawke embassy there in Rurikton. In Divinity Reach talk of human Ascalonians will now be different since the Ascalonian settlements have now been disbanded with the many settlers moving back to their homeland.
This is of course if I accept the events after the wedding of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray as it now stands. A modified version of what I have written here would result if hold my original position. This would entail the human territories be expanded to include Ascalon City and a decendant of Adelbern ruling human Ascalon.
This territory is Ascalon south of a partially repaired Great Northern Wall…. .
Please read my previous posts for the back story to the direction I would like to see in Ebonhawke and human Ascalon, if interested.
The Personal Story of our individual characters should be made more important and a virtual must do.
For example joining at Order gives you the right to buy Tier 1 Cultural, overseeing the formation of the Pact gives right to buy Tier 2 and completing the Battle of Fort Trinity gives the right to buy Tier 3.
WHY is there no regular appearance of Zojja, Caithe and Faolain in all this? Why aren’t they front and center of this saga???? Not to mention the rest of Destiny’s Edge.
Suggestions that they are otherwise occupied does not hold any water since they have not been an indication that they as a group have form a unified course of action. Ignoring the Personal Story is not acceptable in any shape or form. It must be taken into account regardless.
Simply put. the Living Story events MUST be set after the events of the Personal Story and be written as such. And we all know it hasn’t been.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
/signed
Definitely agreed that Salma District and all home districts in the other race capitals be uninstanced.
I think what we all want is a progression of our character’s Personal Story that now also take into account the Living Story elements that would then inform the developers as to which race becomes playable.
To me this means the Tengu will be the next playable race. As I see the plot move to the Sea of Sorrows, where the story of both the Toxic Alliance and the Aetherblade Pirates develop further.
The Destiny’s Edge group of adventurers were held up as example of an ideal raiding group that would go to any dungeon or boss fight as seamless team. And also as a cautionary tale. And this translates into our character’s Personal Story and concluding in the events in Orr and Zhaitan. I believe that this is why they are not really involved in the Living Story.
This is why the Living Story series does not work. It has been used as a means of progressing the Lore without answering the question. This also means the story of our characters and Destiny’s Edge is actually held in continuous loop. Its also why humanity is not able to actively participate in driving the Lore forward in a significant sense rather than just being a passenger.
Good point there Infamous. The human nations through the Guilds that made war against each other would have caused the development of better and more advance methods of killing and mass destruction. The relatively rapid adoption of gun powder in Europe in warfare is an instructive example. This is in deep contrast with mainland China in that period.
China was the dominant power in East Asia and was without any significant rival so did not develop gun powder for warfare to anywhere near what European powers did even though they discovered the technology first. This fact should have transferred to the world of Tyria….
Put simply. The humans kingdoms would have had better military technology and a better organised and trained army than any Charr Legion/ Warband at the time of the events of GW(1). But then I’m only a mere player with an informed opinion.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
I do agree that re-introducing the Dervish and Ritualist professional classes is likely to result in major balancing issues which may mean that both class will need major re-modelling.
However advancing the story of Tyria to include Cantha and Elona would require several major adjustments for each expansion region. And I believe it requires the dramatic changes as I have suggest since what I’m suggesting is NOT a Living Story release but a major offshoot of the existing game that is integrated to the existing map – unlike in Guild Wars(1) where each new campaign expansion was playable on its own.
And as for the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Marine class? A marine would not really struggle on dry land as long as they return to a body of water say once a day. This is a fantasy game after all. And as for the Dredge being an enemy race so can’t be playable? really, omg! Do I really have to mention the Charr as per GW(1)…….
And as a full expansion on its own it would allow the writers to enhance the Lore of the Kodans. And it makes sense to make them since their body shape will be similar enough to the Norn. And whats more their story will be integrated to the re-imagining of the Norn as in a major re-fit of the Lore of the Norn peoples. Why not make it that in the past 250 years with much more contact with other races and with the Orders of Tyria resulted in them becoming more Clan based – attuned to their animal spirits: Bear Clan, Wolf Clan, Snow Leopard Clan and Raven Clan. This would make these groupings similar to the Charr Legions or a Human Nation like Kryta.
What my suggestions are about is not based on any consensus, it is based on what I believe will be of significant interest to both existing and prospective players. This is about enlarging the game in a way that is inclusive of everyone in a way that is both exciting and progressive of the Lore.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
I think there are at least two to three areas that can be the site of a major expansion:
1) The Northern Shiverpeaks (Places of interest – Eye of the North ruins, Gunnar’s Hold ruins, Olafstead ruins, Jora’s homestead site). Here we discover what the Molten Alliance is really up to. And we hear of whispers of a mystical disturbance… we here talk of civil war between the Alliance partners. Then out of the snow storm a Kodan and a Dredge comes to us asking for assistance… This unlike pair speak of seeing what they believe to be the Elder Dragon – Jormag.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Eye_of_the_North
New playable races: Kodan and Dredge.
New profession: Marine (an aquatic warrior with some spirits magic)
2) Elona: All is not well in the “Land of the Golden Sun”, here we are met by an Order of Whispers agent(of course), who is also a Dervish by profession and a citizen of (say) Vabbi. We are told that Palawa Joko now rules most of Elona and that the guardians of the land have been shattered and many of their former members now corrupted into the Mordant Cresent.
The Agent ask us to come with him/her to their mountain headquarters to meet with the resistance leaders. Where talk of an Elder Dragon – Kralkatorrik is really the driving force of Joko’s forces and that Joko is now under the domination of the dragon.
New race: Centaur
New Profession: Dervish (new old profession)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elona
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elona
3)Cantha: Here we arrive by boat so as to sneak into the Empire of the Dragon, where we dock at the Shing Jea Isles District. we are met by a Ritualist Tengu “Fisherman” who tells us that his people are part of the Luxon faction that had fled the mainland and in hiding from the Empire. We go to this village but its under attack and a human Xunlai Agent (who is also a Ritualist by profession) comes running of the wreckage of the local representative office. It turns out that they have a history together as former best friends.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantha
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cantha
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Xunlai_Guild
But there is now more at stake than petty bickering among friends.
New Race: Tengu
New Profession: Ritualist (again, new old profession).
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
My Lore focus has been on Humanity rather than say the Norn or the Sylvari is because while these two races are otherwise of interest to me, they have not been wronged in terms of the Lore. Things have happened but what has occurred has been fair and reasonable.
This cannot be said of Humanity. They have lost territory that to me they should not have – such as Ascalon south of the ruins of The Great Northern Wall (*please read my posts in regards to this subject before responding, as there are many details to this in them). As a result their statue is far from acceptable at this time.
Human tech and industry should be comparable to the Charr in Kryta, thus by extension in Ebonhawke – since it supplies that fortified town. However it is not. Note the development of the Watchknight shows promise if the operational bugs can be resolved and the technology is much more fully developed and applied to other purposes.
Having the humans with competitive tech and magic comparatively to other race would make for interesting plot lines as it allows a better mix of tech and its uses – thus giving the other races a real reason to respect humans overall – not just select individuals.
Where is Zojja? Why is not Destiny’s Edge not playing a prominent role in the Living Story chain of events? Why indeed?
It seems that they are already passed their use-by date after the events of our character’s Personal Story. I mean within Destiny’s Edge v.2(ex-Snaff) she is the technological maestro of the group. Within Guild Wars 2, this group is supreme driver of the story of Tyria.
Each member of Destiny’s Edge brings something unique, special to the whole. This is clearly seem in the Pre Guild Wars 2 book “Edge of Destiny”, as written by J. Robert King. This truth is further confirmed in the awe in which the group is referred to at the beginning of our Personal Stories, after their initial introduction.
I recommend people interested in them to read the book in order to properly place them in GW2 Lore.
This thread needs to be removed. seriously.
Dust, the last point I made, I consider a relatively minor one. I totally understand and respect that Charr militaristic culture and social structure leads to this line of thinking in most Charr that have earned his or her place in their respective Warbands.
However my overall position stands. In my informed opinion I believe there is sufficient grounds to question the direction of the evolution of the Human situation in at least the past 250 years leading up to the events of GW2. Humanity is facing a very uncertain future in Tyria and their situation is not improving enough to ensure a viable future.
As I have made clear that humanity does not have the genuine respect of neither the Asurans nor the Charr, while the Sylvari and the Norn non-committal – at best.
Humanity may continue to be relevant in events and story treads of GW2, but they are NOT respected as a race as a military threat, not by the Charr Legions. And a military that is not a treat is undeserving of respect!
A Charr warband would not automatically consider an equivalent human unit to be equally capable – unless said unit has a known reputation. Where-as that human unit – say a company(or platoon) of Ebon Vanguard would automatically respect its Charr equivalent. And that is a clear illustration of my point.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Your forgetting the ‘small’ problem of the Dragonbrand and the corruption that it spreads. The truth is the lands surrounding Ebonhawke and especially in the area immediately surrounding the Serenity Temple site is toxic to all life, not to mention unhealthy….
The beginning of the answer in so far as Humanity is concern is that such an endeavour requires massive amounts of surplus resources and workers, soldiers, equipment and technology.
All of which humanity does not have in plentiful supply of as in -there is no surplus resources available. Since to HAVE enough for any significant amount of surplus REQUIRES the complete extermination of the Centaurs from the parts of Kryta that humanity have settled.
Simple put. Humanity cannot afford to claim any part of Orr based on current GW2 Lore. That is truth undeniable.
Shanna unfortunately I can’t fault you on any of the points you have raised like many others also have based on current GW2 Lore which is why I’ve suggested that there needs to be major revision to the Lore in regards to Humanity starting with events immediately following the marriage of Gwen and Keiran.
Namely, as I’ve repeatedly stated that Devona and her friends Mhenlo, Cynn, Aidan and Eve return to Ascalon City, Join Ascalon’s Chosen and pass on their battle experience to the defenders of Ascalon and help defend the city thus saving human Ascalon which I’ve now called South Ascalon as per being south of the ruins of the Great Northern Wall.
This is the only way that humanity can stay relevant in Tyria (as different from Cantha and Elona, major parts of the Shiverpeaks – ie area around former Gunnar’s Hold and Olafstead). Its the only way that humanity stand on its own as a worthy, respected partner race within the Pact Treaty.
For at this point in time within current continuity their membership is an act of charity on the part of the other four major races.
Let me clarify. I believe that Tyrian humanity in GW2 – that is the combine forces of the nation of Kryta and the nation of (Human) South Ascalon (Ascalon south of the ruins of the Great Northern Wall) should now be capable of holding out against an attack of a single Charr Legion not the three combined!
(Note: South Ascalon assumes that the Foefire did not occur and that Ascalon City remains a free human city ruled by the human monarch of the day)
When I said that humanity is close to extinction in current continuity – I still hold this to be the hidden truth. And as far as Ebonhawke being able to survive these past 250 years with Krytan aid?
That’s actually both illogical and impossible based on Humanity’s current level of military strength and magical/technological prowess – in both human nations. Humans have no heavy industry and can’t even manufacture small arms like rifles and pistols or cannon for that matter.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Make note that I stated that Humanity cannot vanquish in battle even a single Charr Legion! Also note that I did not claim that the Charr are in the practice of giving away land out of the charity alone. They did it because they became aware of the threat of Zhatian to all life in Tyria.
And again note I never claimed that Humanity should again be the dominate and leading race in Tyria like the Charr are now I might add.
I did however state that through the combine actions and efforts of Adelbern, Devona and Gwen and their close friends humans in Ascalon can hold their own – with full support from their Krytan friends who over the past 200 odd years have now become close allies as a result of the Searing and their shared experience of being attacked by the Charr Legions.
Humanity in this scenario would at least be respected by the Charr Legions since Humanity would now have the magical prowess, technology and industry to withstand a Charr assault – even though this would still result in a massive lost of life. It is only from this position of real strength – relative and comparable with the other leading races as per GW2 Lore, that Tyrian humanity can truely enter the Pact Treaty as a respected partner race.
Humanity are fair from doing fine in Kryta. Humanity’s goal in Tyria is to recover a leading position rivalling the Charr. For that they need to exterminate the Centaurs. Its not enough that they area contained. And as for Humanity doing fine overall?
Cantha and Elona are separate continents. I am discussing the primary Kingdoms of Tyria, since we currently only have access to Tyria alone. And in Tyria the situation is far from acceptable.
Why would and the Charr give the Ebonhawke humans land? Pure charity – and…… its ruin land of poor quality. It is infested with the Dragonbrand and minions there of.
The Charr are the strongest militarily only because they were written as such for the mechanics and needs of the Lore as it is now. The truth is humanity would have been at least as capable if what I suggest in reference to the return of Devona and friends to Ascalon instead of being ignored, as per my previous post.
Also any differences that Ascalonians and Krytans felt about each other would have been wiped in an instant as a direct result of the complete catastrophe that is the Searing! Not to mention the sudden sinking of Orr as well. These chain of events would have quickly united the surviving humans of Tyria in ways not considered possible in generations past.
The humans of GW2 cannot withstand a major offensive launch by the Charr or even just the Flame Legion themselves. The Flame Legion now have Dredge technology as well in the form of the Molten Alliance!
Humanity has no such Alliance to call upon. Not even the Pact will be able to withstand such an attack without incurring heavy losses. But this is apart from the point.
The point is, its clear that the Humans of GW2 pose no clear and present danger to any Legion of the Charr Nation. Any single Charr Legion is capable of wipping out Humanity from the face of Tyria WITHOUT risking significant losses – including minimal lose of life!
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Dust, I think your comment that since Humanity conquered Ascalon they have no better claim than the Charr is but the lastest in polical correctness gone mad. The ArenaNet writers could have written that humanity met with no sentient face upon arrival onto Ascalon, as a means of introducing them. To keep the interest of players Humanity needs to be seen and respected as a strong race capable of rivalling the others.
At this time, as the GW2 lore is now, humanity is under threat of extinction. This may seem irrational but think about it. Human only protection is the Pact treaty. Humanity does not have the ability to defend itself independently against any of the other major races – which at present are the Charr and the Asura.
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Did you take this post as an attack against humanity?
Unintentionally on the part of the original poster. but a definite yes.
This is a fantasy world and so I would say that Devona would be able to be accepted based on her deeds as well as being her father’s daughter.
Yes we should heard something about Devona and friends immediately after Gwen’s marriage but we have not. This is because the ArenaNet writers were planning to put in place the conditions to allow the events leading up to the Foefire to take place.
Why else do you think they were ignored. This is their obviously their motive. With Devona and friends defending Ascalon City and passing on their experiences and battle knowledge to the defenders the would inspire them to fight with greater wisdom and much greater strength of will. This will lead the defenders of Ascalon City to be able to prevent any siege on the city itself. Thus the Foefire will NEVER have happened.
As far as using the point of history that the Charr once own Ascalon? I think those that started at GW: Prophecies would disagree that because of this reason alone that the Charr be allowed to take it back by whatever means possible up to and including ignoring Devona and friends.
And this as we all know is exactly what the ArenaNet writers have done, based on what has been published thus far.
And as far as allowing the Lore to occur as I have suggested in reference to Ascalon would cause the game to remain human centric? really???
Theres Ascalon that’s north of the Great Northern Wall for a start. And lets not forget that Orr sunk! Human centric? All I’m asking for is a balance between the need to progress the Lore of Tyria and fairness to humanity. And taking from them almost everything outside of Kryta does NOT spell fair in my book.
In the experience of most players(that started the game from the first campaign), Ascalon south of the Great Northern Wall was from the start of the events of Prophecies human land. And accept that humans have every right to keep it as their own by right of the blood they have lost defending it.
Now its widely accepted that the then Prince Rurik was heir to the Ascalonian Crown and that through his choices was disowned by his father. However he was referred to as Adelbern’s firstborn son…..
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Prince_Rurik
Which I think is reasonable grounds to assume that Adelbern had other royal progeny. Did he not have other children alive and ready to take their elder brother’s place? In this picture may I also add at this time that Adelbern was the leader of the guild Ascalon’s Chosen and that Devona’s father Mordakai was a member of this guild as well. This would mean that Devona would have inherited her father’s membership, thus she would have been at least professionally associated with the royal family.
As she is the recognised leader of her band which includes Mhenlo, Cynn, Eve and Aidan to name the most noteable among this Ascalonian grouping, she would have invited them all to join Adelbern’s guild. Now having this group of battle tested professionals to re-enforce the defense of Ascalon City after witnessing the marriage of Captain Gwen and Keiran Thackeray would make sense.
What else would they have done after wishing well the newly weds? Now it would be plausible that Devona or one of her friends marry into the ruling family. Let’s just say that it is her that was married into Adelbern’s family.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hearts_of_the_North
This would result in her becoming Ascalon’s new Champion as chosen by Adelbern. And taking this line further she eventually becomes Queen by right of marriage along side Adelbern’s heir.
This would solidify Adelbern’s ability to do his duty to protect the people of Ascalon while having Gwen and Keiran establish Ebonhawke as a major supply base. Mhenlo, Cynn and Eve would be tasked with finding a way to reverse the effect of the Searing by taking leadership over the mages of Ascalon City.
Having Devona’s group to surport him, Adelbern would gradually acknowledge the need for an alliance not only with Kryta but the Asurans and the Norn through the friendship of Vekk and Jora. Of course all of this did not happen. But it should have and is likely to have. Since both Gwen and Devona would still maintain a strong connection to their Homeland even after their travels through Cantha, Elona and the Shiverpeaks.
And the reason why this did not happen was because of the need of ArenaNet, I think to give the Charr domination over all of Ascalon in Guild Wars 2 – 250 years into the future, regardless of fairness to the humans of Ascalon (both of Ascalon City and Ebonhawke).
(edited by Nicholas S Lin.6187)
Here’s an idea make the crafting stations race based. If a human character wants to craft something it has to go to Divinity’s Reach. And in the same way if an Asura wants to craft something it has to use the crafting stations in Rata Sum. And to ensure this is the case remove the crafting stations from WvW and Lions Arch. There is no need for them to be there. And to ensure people visit Lion Arch remove the Trading Posts from the racial capitals.
In this way the key services are distributed fairly while causing minimal frustration. WvW is an arena not a town or city and should not have those amenities (crafting stations and trading post). The Trading Post should only be located in Lion’s Arch seeing as it is the entry way to the Mists and the central jump-off point to the racial capitals.
This alone would ensure that each racial capital has a chance of being populated while keeping Lion’s Arch relevant and always in use.
I believe that future Living Story releases should include these organisations more. As well as more references to them in banter among human soldiers at least. The Ebon Falcons are the elite unit of the Ebon Vanguard in much the same way as the Shining Blade were before their current station as the Royal Guards of Queen Jennah.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shining_Blade
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shining_Blade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Founding (reference to Ebon Falcons).
I would also like to see both organisations play a much enlarged role if we ever get a real expansion to GW2 and thus they be included in Personal Story an extended human version.
I want to see more of Countess Anise, Master Exemplar(leader) of the Shining Blade. And for her to interact more with Logan, Marjory, Kasmeer and the other members of Destiny’s Edge.
Implementing these enhancements to GW2 – Human Lore would allow humans to some significant degree, recover some professional military pride in a way that would improve the ongoing plot lines of the game.
I acknowledge that some selected parts of my post contain aspects that can be considered “reaching” in terms of current and past Lore but all have always been in the pursuit of fairness and balance to Humanity in GW2.
And as I have suggested we all have access to tools like youtube.
It should matter or affect one perception either way, true. But for some it may play a part in their race affinity to a degree.
But I stand by my statement without qualification. Since while it is true that a support humanity in the first instance, I do my best to ensure that my opinions do not contain anything that cannot be confirmed by accepted Lore.
Just wondering if it could be possible that she did not absorb Abaddon, but instead he poured himself into her body taking over. She became a new vessel, allowing him to escape his prison that the other Gods placed him in. Then after he got out, the first thing he wanted was revenge on Mallyx the Unyielding for failing him in his plot to release him.
Now later on after that, the other unsuspecting Gods are easily ambushed with a new plot and this is the reason that the Gods stopped sending there aspects and have seemed to just disappear. Wonder if Kormir was to take off the blindfold how many eyes would she have?
Your one of those people that attempt to deny a tragedy happened aren’t you? just because its to horrible to accept? Really?
If this scenario was even a possibility there would have been some clue during or immediate after that quest. To those that don’t recall the event play Nightfall again or find a vid of it on youtube. Making a suggestion like that make me think that you either do not have a human as a main character and or have friends who do not have a human as one of their main characters.
I strongly suggest you do your Guild Wars research before posting something like this again.
Not counting your own posts, the last eight posts were off subject. I doesn’t matter much in the end though, since we already answered your question from the OP. There are no known ties between the Elder Dragons and the Six.
I am well aware that there is currently to existing connection between the two groups of deities. However since both groups have significant levels of divinity and both have made their presence known in Tyria both should know of the other and would have some interaction/communication with each other either as individuals or as a group.
I would assume both are true. The fact that the writers apparently have not revealed any connection is a deliberate move. And I believe that it is because they want to keep Humanity weak as a race and in GW2 Lore terms. Others may argue that this is without merit – I would strongly challenge them on this.
If the connection is made formal then the Lore will change to give Humanity a high status than at present. It is clear that the Elder Dragons every move have resulted either directly or indirectly in the weakening of Humanity’s grip on Tyria.
This Reality would have been noted by the Six Gods&Goddess and they would have acted accordingly. Note that Komir now the Goddess of Truth (including: Secrets and Knowledge) is a former human.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kormir
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kormir
Thus while they as a group may well have elected to take a more hands-off approach to the proceedings since the movements of the races are temporary in terms of the perspective – Komir would not allow the present situation to stand.
She of course would not make the same mistake as Abbadon and act alone. She would present her case to the other five and force them to see the situation differently – and act.