Guild Wars 2

In my experience there are only two that matter – the Asuran skill that inflicts confusion on a perplexity runes build, and the Norn elite transformation skill that grants long duration stealth.

Some are fun, but nothing beyond those two radically alters gameplay.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

tbh i would even have preferred forger even though i dont think it means what you think it means

Aww, why wouldn’t ANet be throwing themselves face first into endless jokes about bad checks and fake paintings?

“Forger” was NEVER on the table.

Thieves have survivability without stealth. Super Unicorns have always been rugged mostly visible bunkers.

Substance E.4852:

The one leaked trait specifically uses the word “Aspect” to describe the new class mechanic feature.

Well ‘aspect’ had a very specific meaning in the Ranger CDI — a bonus for not having a pet out. We’ll have to see. Whatever it does, it has to work with~

• Alpha Training Pets have Opening Strike.
• Expertise Training Pets deal extra condition damage and have their condition durations increased.
• Shared Anguish Incoming disables are transferred to your pet instead.
• Empathic Bond Pets periodically take conditions from you.
• Allies’ Aid When you begin reviving an ally, you use search and rescue on them.
• Vigorous Training Pets grant vigor to nearby allies when activated.
• Invigorating Bond Your pet heals allies in an area when executing a command [F2] ability.
• Pack Alpha Your pet is more powerful, and their skills gain recharge reduction.
• Companion’s Might Your critical hits grant might to your pet. Critical strikes from your pet’s basic attack cause bleeding.
• Go for the Eyes Your pet gains toughness. Your pet’s command [F2] ability causes blindness to foes around it.
• Loud Whistle While your health is above the threshold, your pet deals more damage. Your pet swap gains recharge reduction.
• Natural Healing Your pet gains natural health regeneration and improved healing.
• Wilting Strike Your pet inflicts weakness on their target(s) when executing a command [F2] ability.
• Pet’s Prowess Pets move faster and deal more damage on critical hits.
• Beastly Warden Your pet taunts foes near them when executing a command [F2] ability.

Has to at some point count as a pet swap to trigger~

• Clarion Bond Cast Call of the Wild when you swap pets.
• Poison Master After swapping pets, your pet’s first attack will inflict poison; Your poison damage is increased.
• Zephyr’s Speed You and your pet gain might and quickness when you swap pets.

And deal with not getting the full benefit of~

• Brutish Seals Activating a signet grants might to you and your pet. Signets recharge faster.
• Moment of Clarity Gain an attack of opportunity for you and your pet on interrupting a foe. Daze and stun durations you inflict last longer.
• Predator’s Onslaught You and your pet deal increased damage to disabled or movement-impaired foes.
• Companion´s Defense You and your pet gain protection when you dodge roll.
• Refined Toxins While you are above the health threshold, your strikes inflict poison. While your pet’s health is above the health threshold, its strikes inflict poison.
• Bark Skin You and your pet take less damage while your health is above the threshold.
• Bountiful Hunter You and your pet deal more damage per boon that is on you.
• Fortifying Bond Any boon you get is shared with your pet.
• Lingering Magic Boons applied by you and your pets last longer.

~so I’m pretty sure we’re not getting Aspects (stow pet for bonus) as they were being discussed in the CDI …

Holland.9351:

Not very likely.

• All staff weapons have 1200 range autoattack.
• where is the skill from the video?

Uh, Guardian staff is 600. Revenant and Thief staff autoattacks are 130. You’re thinking of staff in the hands of light armor… which the Druid is not.

The one shot we’ve ever seen of a druid? The points staff and colum of vines blasts downrange as Fido lunges in? The original HoT video.

Karl McLain.5604:

Greetings all!
Now that the betas are over and we’ve been working through quite a bit of feedback, we now have the chance to give you the list of changes that will be available for the next beta.
…
Traps:
We’re continuing to work on trap usability, functionality and improve visual effects. There’s not a whole lot in this update, but we continue to appreciate your feedback on these abilities.

Traps (general): Reduced the cast time of all traps to 1/2 second, down from 1 second.

Purification: Fixed an issue that caused this ability to not function correctly with Runes of the Trapper.
…
Cheers,
-Karl

Any update on our traps-tech? The natives are getting restless (read restless as ‘going into gran mal seizures’).

Also is there an ETA on Trapper Runes being made available in sPvP since they have such an impact on the Dragonhunter’s utility choices?

(and any word on super-speed getting fixed?)

It interacts poorly with the my-god-touch-nothing meditation meta build. There’s lots of other things Guards do that have enough flex to them that you can shuffling things and have something interesting to work with. I’m not kidding when I say this constant “but it’s not exactly like medi-meta!” is going to get medi-meta nerfed.

Oh goodness. please don’t misunderstand. In my role as Guardian/Dragonhunter enthusiast, I want gyros to be better. I want the to be friken AWESOME. So that when the discussion comes around again on the G side of the house we can point to gyros and say “Look at that? See those gyros over there? That’s on a level people use. That’s on a level competitive builds get wrapped around. That’s the kind of impact Spirit Weapons should be bringing to the table.”

wolfyrik.2017:

Nike.2631:

It’s hilarious Engis are complaining about them while Guardians are looking at Gyros and hoping they become a good argument that Spirit Weapons should be reviewed/improved, because gyros are plainly the same thing only better.

Except that this doesn’t mean gyros are good, it just means that spirit weapons are even worse. How bad must spirit weapons be if these look so good in comparison?

Pretty bad, obviously .

Can we please have more people shrieking “I can’t possible move off my 3 trait lines of choice to substitute in anything” a few more times in case the Devs were unclear exactly where to drop the nerf-bat? If a single step in every direction is downhill, you’re sitting on a high spot that’s gonna get hammered down…

The biggest source of the angst isn’t that Especs require choices, its that they named them “elite” which makes people immediately think they’re supposed to be an upgrade.

Looks like the Scrapper may be another situation axe shines .

Have you tried main-hand axe? Pretty much the more they pump out clones the more you kick their backside up around their ears. Bounces see through invisibility just fine…

It’s hilarious Engis are complaining about them while Guardians are looking at Gyros and hoping they become a good argument that Spirit Weapons should be reviewed/improved, because gyros are plainly the same thing only better.

I’m still concerned no Norn should EVER take this profession. It bars them from ever assuming their totem forms. It turns them into spiritual cripples, forever cut off from the spirits. The entire notion is horrifying. It’s like Svanir all over again.

Revenants are the work of Jormag!!

Dadnir.5038:

NB.: Not to mention that you overuse the word “bear” to the point i’m getting sick

Its meant as a salve to Norns , who currently are getting a profession that turns them into a spiritual cripple (Revenants can’t EVER assume their totem form).

Kailee.8790:

Agree with Sina, if any of this is close to being relatively accurate… ranger and even druid is dead on arrival…

Ranger’s needed changes are Ranger’s needed changes — and no Espec can address that. Druid is built on Ranger and it has to NOT crash any existing Ranger traits, which means we’ll see a pet and either pet swapping or something that triggers pet-swap procs. The apple cannot fall far from the tree, so set your expectations accordingly. Data-mining suggests Druids get glyphs. The defining characteristic of glyphs is variable effect or secondary effect based on attunement. “Attunement” for Rangers is “what family is your pet?”.

Plus Fido was right there in the Druid video clip.

Nemesis.6938:

where is my shapeshift?
rework please

Um, Tyrian druids don’t play D&D…?

Zenith.7301:

Our shouts are pitiful compared to scrapper gyros in terms of group utility ;(

Because shouts are annihilated by enemy AoE? Because Gyro’s proc Runes of the Trooper? What am I missing here…?

Considering the 99% mass extinction of builds that just took place with the trait line/trait revamp, be very clear: ArenaNet wants players to stop surprising them with overperforming combinations a LOT more than they want the game to have rich diversity. At this point having only a modest number of strong builds emerging from a new Espec is a feature not a bug to the people charged with managing class balance.

Malthurius.6870:

I have but 1 criticism of the introduction of the elite specializations. I do not like the fact that the new weapons and utilities are chained to whether or not you’re using the elite specialization or not. You could still use the elite specialization as the vehicle to unlock these things, just don’t make using the elite spec a prerequisite to using the weapons and utilities. The elite specialization lines change enough on their own to still feel unique gameplay wise.

I can understand the reasoning; this creates an easier system to balance in the future when more elite specializations are introduced and more weapons and utilities get thrown on the pile. That’s all well and good, but this will end up feeling like a very large limitation to the common player when they aren’t allowed to use weapon A and utility skill B with Elite Spec C.

It’s a preemptive strike against future balance issues that don’t exist as of right now at the potential cost of build diversity and creativity in the future. Anyone else think this shouldn’t be the case?

Oh, you should have been there when Anet was running the two CDIs this structure grew out of .

The essential framework we have today — swapping out a trait line — was basically my best attempt at minimizing the damage sub-classes would do. …And was offered up only as a “trying to see it from the other side’s perspective” solution after arguing viciously that sub-classes shouldn’t exist at all and all of these weapons and utilities should be blended into the core profession so people could mix and match as they please.

If they have a virtue, it’s that they do allow ANet to keep reusing the same weapons to deliver new skills without ever having to add new weapon types/models to the game. An espec can overwrite a core weapon or offer the same weapon as another especs for the same profession without creating a conflict.

Time permitting, go back and read the last 5 pages of the vertical progression CDI, and about pages 39-48 of the horizontal progression CDI. It’s illuminating.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

gyro?

Dangit. Now I’m craving Greek.

Ok, mixing a little hearsay, some datamining, the initial HoT video, and some patterns we’ve seen in skills already in the game here’s my bets for Druid. 90% of which will be wrong .

Staff

• 900 range auto attack. Probably not a 1-2-3 chain skill.
• One defense-for-self button. Maybe a wall of vines that absorbs projectiles for 3-4 seconds.
• One PBAoE group buff. Probably vigor, possibly fury
• One ground targets “burst of growth” attack, likely with cripple, possibly bleed (thorns)
• One vine attack using the same wide-line attack shape as the Revenant’s ‘road’ cast, likely with a cripple effect. Possibly knockdown.

Glyphs
Variable effects based on the family of the pet you have out. Probably some overlap so each glyph has 3-4 modes total (much like Elementalist Glyphs key to current attunement)

• Obligatory healing glyph with pet family-themed secondary buff. Bear-heal!! (bear adds protection, birds add swiftness, pigs add a condition cleanse, etc.)
• Glyph adding additional effect to your next 5 attacks. Effect set by current pet’s family (spiders poison, birds blind, felines bleed, drakes burn, etc.)
• Glyph for rezing downed-but-not-dead allies. Ally recovers with added bnefit based on pet family.
• Glyph applying a large buff to your pet and a small buff to you depending on pet family.
• Condi-cleanse glyph with small AoE buff to you and allies based on pet family.
• Elite glyph summoning “Primal Pet” matching the family of your current pet. The One True Bear!

Traits

• A glyph trait that adds the effects of both your pets (out and stored) to your glyphs + 20% cooldown.

Mercurias.1826:

Am I seriously the only person who thinks Spirit weapons are just fine as they are?

Nope, I use them too occasionally in modes that aren’t particularly demanding. But that doesn’t mean they are potent enough to be competitive choices. “Making them into minion” just means increasing their up time and making it more worthwhile to specifically single out and destroy them. I promise a small improvement to a hugely underused skill line is NOT going to require they “rebalance the whole class” .

I love the dammed if you do dammed if you don’t situation Anet is having to dance through — Dragonhunter is “all over the place” to some Guardian players because it’s not more of the same while other players favoring other professions are complaining Dragonhunter is basically the only Espec that genuinely brings something new to its core profession and why can’t their Espec offer a whole new playstyle like Guards are getting? The grass really is greener over the hill I guess.

I think you’ll be a ‘true Dragonhunter’ just fine running Longbow but not traps or traps without longbow. I’m planning a ‘zerg-leader’ build with longbow + consecrations, a longbow + spirit weapons build for open world, and a traps/pure melee. All of them will clearly be Dragonhunters.

Shrugal.4513:

Lightning Orb: It would be great if we could swap location with the orb on 2nd tab. This would make it a great and unique tool for mobility and also improve damage on enemies standing still or moving elsewhere, since we could make the orb move through them twice. Also just make it move into the direction the character is facing.

Oooo. I do like this!!

Jaxom.7310:

Obtena.7952:

I have to laugh that ANet specified Drones aren’t like SW"s … but they are … they have health, they last a fixed duration, they follow you around, you can command some of them.

Can anyone explain the part that doesn’t make them like SW"s? I don’t see it.

they have a chance of being useful.

if they aren’t useful, devs will try to make them better

i just gave u 2 raisins

Lol. you gave one dried out grape — they aren’t out yet.

Spirit weapons were useful… and they got nerfed into the ground. Still waiting to see if the Dev’s will “will try to make them better”.

Arnath.2319:

Kits are coming in our second elite spec so get use to it.

You are so reading too much into “tomes as kits could be interesting”. It’s on their minds but acting like its a done deal at this stage is just asking for disappointment come wave 2.

Spirit Weapons desperately need help. They have been broken since game launch and the devs have failed to even acknowledge there’s a problem.

If by ‘broken’ you mean grossly overpowered at launch and then grossly underpowered when they became targetable, sure.

InViictuZz.1705:

i agree with you 100%. no need for guard atm. since the beginning of the elite spec´s i´m thinking of switching my main profession… as much as i love the guard, there is no reason to play him anymore when you see all other professions do your stuff 10 times as good as you do..

Traitors will not be missed.

No, more seriously, if the new shiny calls to you, go play it. But don’t think for one second those singular abilities here and there somehow take away the gestalt effectiveness of the Guardian. Other professions finally getting a chair doesn’t mean Guardian will lose its seat at the table.

Orpheal.8263:

Forge is just an other word for Smith … rolleyes

Not in this language it isn’t.That’s like saying garage is another word for mechanic, clinic is another word for veterinarian, and post office is another word for mailman.

And if you think ‘forger’ means “a person who works hot metal” I have a surprise for you… but its a fake. A forgery, even.

I have no doubt whatsoever ArenaNet trademarked Braham’s likeness (which is NOT copyright btw). Thing is, no one can trademark “all muscular dudes in vaguely Nordic dress with woad/tattoos”. You have to be much, MUCH closer to the specific character, and humans are VERY good indeed at facial recognition.

Well, boiling down my hopes for the absolute minimum adjustment that would let me use the shield to good effect, I cam up with…

Increase the range of #4 to 900. THis will let you support from the real more effectively.

Increase the radius of #5 to 400 and make the dome impenetrable to dodge rolls. Now its easier to use, better at chokepoint control, and has a stronger knockback.

I’d also like the shield trait to grant you aegis for 8 second when you use a shield skill.

These are very modest changes, but they’d go a long way.

Iozeph.5617:

It doesn’t do anything to undo the damage done to the class by the update…

Really, 7 Especs in and you haven’t noticed that’s not and never will be the point of Especs?

Balance changes can and will continue to be made to the core professions. The battle you’re fighting can only be won there, not in a trait line only available to max level characters with a ton of extra hero-points laying around.

What’s elitist about Ascended gear at this point? Its commonplace. It takes no special elitist skill to acquire just time and/or coin. Ascended is merely good preparation at this point and good preparation IS A MEASURE OF SKILL.

Scaling the difficulty of what’s being offered as “challenging” content MUST take into account the most challenge-seeking portion of the player base has long since checked off this step and ArenaNet — not me or anyone else being accused of “elitism” — are the ones DOUBLING the stat gap between Exotic and Ascended tiers. I promise they aren’t doing that to make all-Ascended-geared folk have a cakewalk in Raids. The two things ARE connected.

If I’m a raid leader and I’m setting-up a raid and you say “I’m in all orange” I’m gonna ask “why?” Because on the whole raiding is a long term commitment to advancement and preparation the same way I’m gonna make sure you brought role-appropriate food and “all-orange” is none of those things. If I know you personally and have a certainty about your skills “I just leveled this character up to fill our composition” is perfectly valid but even then Asceneded gear is account bound so how does it happen you don’t have anything (weapons, jewelry, armor) on your account you couldn’t swap over? Surely you have enough laurels to go buy a couple of pieces of jewelry?

I don’t expect to build compositions from all-ascended. There’s gonna be some orange in the mix. But all-orange? Get your kit together. This ain’t the Shatterer we’re running tonight.

You do know unlocking the Reaper line will give you a new Greatsword skin designed specifically for them, yes?

xadine.7069:

The thing is, challenge is not about stats but about player skill.

You’re fooling yourself if you think there aren’t people that are both skillful and apex-geared. And those people dish 10% more effectiveness than the all-orange and skillful. And most people who are genuinely skillful KNOW they need to be packing the best stats they can get for iffy encounters if only to increase their margin for error and to not drag their team down with shoddy preparation.

If raids are good challenging content, it won’t matter much if you exotic or ascend.

If it’s tuned so soft you can clear it skillful and all-orange, skillful and all-ascended is gonna make it a blowout. That’s enough functionality left over to clear it a man down.

Ofc no matter what ascend will be better than exotic and you’ll see “LFG: ascend meta only”, but it should’nt be require imo. And I don’t think Anet aim for it either.

You have an interesting definition of “challenging”. Sort of a “I want it to be hard, but not so hard I can’t pull it of in gear I bought of the TP 30 seconds after I hit level cap. Yeah. That’s hard enough. The people who’ve been tricking out their toons for 3 years now, they don’t need any challenge in their lives…”

DevilLordLaser.8619:

When you type something like that, you give up all credibility, dude. Here’s the deal – I don’t give a fat rat what you ‘personally envisioned’ for the game, and if you were personally and solely responsible for ArenaNet developing elite specializations I will eat my pants without sauce.

Orpheal was certainly actively involved .

You might find these interesting reading~

The New Masters – Suggesting releasing New Weapons, Utilities, and weapons skins as a package to expand class options without adding sub-classes. Others would later refine the idea to adding a new line of utility skills with a common tag like we see today.

Here’s the studio design director getting on board. Note he’s the one suggesting what we now see in terms on linear tracks for trait lines that that you buy your way through in order.

Here’s the magic moment where sub-classes become not an additional trait line but a substitute trait line. Of course we didn’t know back then that they’d be locking us into three trait lines at a time, and I admit I’m a bit surprised we can combine an Espec line with the old class trait lines (the 5th line always being linked to class mechanics). But is was quite gratifying to see the idea get used.

Of course I might have had some inkling…

If they tune them for all orange, all ascended squads are gonna burn them to the ground. I don’t anticipate Anet building “challenging content” that will make them a laughingstock, but we’ll see.

Holland.9351:

Let’s wait for the Druid reveal.

Why? The Druid isn’t going to change how the base profession works. It’s not going to magically solve Ranger issues… It’s just going to inherit them.

The first two bullet points were 100% UNTRUE. Couldn’t bring myself to read further.

Ok, look. The game has rules. Structure. The fewer rules you break, the more likely your effort is to not get ignored by Devs. Putting a cheaper, more easily acquired off-hand only weapon in the main hand is breaking a rule. One where you could easily color within the lines and have a better chance of getting what you want.

Oh man, main-hand dagger and book (focus) could be an awesome witchhunter spec.

Scrapper the better Beastmaster?

Fear not! No profession or Espec will ever be better at being strangled by its own class mechanics.

KotCR.6024:

It would only affect roamer’s in WvW…

Um… ‘getting there’, especially ‘getting there faster’ affects every scoring activity in the mode. From running suppy to reinforcing a tower under assault to racing to catch up after being killed and your body overrun, speed is second only to sheer numbers in ruling the board and you definitely DON’T always move in groups that include a convient swiftness-spammer .

Make no mistake: I want it. I even want it for the Dragonhunter because any version of sustained 25% speed buff would turn the spec from “I’ll never…” to “OMG2OP, must have!! ((slaver/drool/foam at the mouth))” which might make people finally shut up about traps skills they clearly don’t know how to use — actually it would no doubt make them redouble their complaining that they finally got the Precious but woe is me it’s tied to traps…

But I don’t expect we’ll get it, so my effort is focused on refining the tools we do have .

EnRohbi.2187:

Erm, I think you might have missed the whole point of the game.

Oh no. I remember how it launched. And I also watched it start bleeding players who had achieved the apex of personal power so they scrambled to tack on a hugely time consuming new teir of gear/power progression.

The “personal power progression” is meant to be a very short part of the journey, that’s where horizontal progression starts coming into play.

What they initially “meant it to be” quickly took a back see to the reality of what drives player retention – a goal to progress towards.

Horizontal progression is just that – a goal. One that thankfully doesn’t’ feed your power at any given moment, but flexibility of options is power too, and people will chase it eagerly.

Which has been stated multiple times by Anet (Multiple times) as what the whole point of the endgame is here. Horizontal, not vertical.

Yup. It’s what the figured out to do after the initial panic-response that created Ascended gear.

Ascended Armour was designed as “barely” stronger than Exotics specifically with this in mind.

We must play different MMO outside of GW2, because 5% isn’t “barely” anything. That’s substantial. And the fact they’re going to double the gap between Exotic and Asceneded stats isn’t pushing for “barely”, that’s more “promote up or be left behind.”

See you in the raids. Only I won’t. Because ‘all orange’ is getting kicked by any sensible raid leader.

((looks at greatsword… in the hands of a Mesmer))
((looks at staff… in the hands of Thief))
((Looks at most maces and scepters from the same weapon set))

And after the Dragonhunter, I don’t see offhand dagger with physical skills as something that couldn’t be explained with the right theme. Knives have a long tradition in the real world of being how heavily armored warriors ended up delivering the killing stroke in duels. There’s lots of gaps a knife slides through that a sword won’t. Bonus damage if target is below 25% health? Sign me up.

I’m with you — warhorn Guardian is gonna be sweet no matter what the theme .

KotCR.6024:

While I think most of us understand this, it’s not just an effectiveness thing, it’s a quality-of-life thing too, as it also affects out-of-combat performance and generally class enjoyability.

I realize people forget it’s there, but in WvW there’s no such thing as out of combat – you’re fighting or you’re MOVING to achieve objectives. One of the reason people want it so bad is because it’s very, very powerful.

And in sPvP, which is the main mode for balancing decisions, permanent out of combat speed is HUGE, because it lets you rotate and capture with much greater efficiency. It’s arguably more impact than any other ability in the game in the hands of an map-aware player.

This is why the tying it to the Unscathed Contender trait is such a popular choice. Aegis has minimal up-time in combat, and as a result this trait is actually rather weak despite it’s sizable damage bonus. But the theme of it is perfect for a passive 25% movement speed bonus, as having +25% movement speed while under the affects of Aegis, would mean you’d benefit from actually being to get around open world content at an acceptable rate, just like any other class, without being forced to spec Shouts and Staff, or use Traveller Runes, but Guardian’s in-combat mobility, the classes obviously intended weakness, would remain garbage as Aegis tends to drop the second in goes up in combat anyway.

It helps that it’s a traitline that pretty much all Guardians use too (as it’s the only way to make Virtues relevant), similiar to how the Warrior’s version of it (25% movement speed while wielding a melee weapon) is in a line that all Warriors use too (as it’s how they get their weapon swap CD bonus).

While that’s a slick implementation I can tell you two reasons Devs frown at it. Unscathed Contender is a good/strong trait already. You don’t have to tie a pork chop around its neck to get Balthazar’s hounds to play with it. Adding one of the most sought after buffs available would make it way overtuned. And second being in a line that get used constantly is a reason to NOT put the effect there.

I do think we’re see it in an Espec one day, and when we do we’re going to hear shouts that “the new spec is MANDATORY!!?!” because of the speed buff .

Fashion Mage.3712:

Nike

As cute as that sounds it won’t happen. Main hand and off-hand-only weapons are priced differently at vendor so they’re not gonna let you use an off-hand-only in the main hand.

That reasoning is about as concrete as “The Necromancer elite specialization won’t be called ‘Reaper’ because there’s a title called that already”, and we can see how that turned out. I agree it is somewhat unlikely though, but just not for that reasoning.

Look at the crafting material requirements for off-hand-only vs mainhand. We’re not talking namespace conflict, were talking economy. That’s not something they bend on much. Add in needing new animations and now we’re really deep in Itainthappening Land.

Dual wield swords . Envision the glorious heavy armor symmetry of the fiery knight walking towards you with 2 swords ready and the image of an open book hovering behind them.

Paired Swords & Tome (kits) is a great visual for Guardians.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The drop rate was doubled. It was punishingly low. Now it’s punishingly low x 2.

That makes sense — a LOT of people are feeling doubly punished …

Conner.5803:

Ehm, so why do you “need” ascended gear so badly?

Oh for the sake of all the kittens. Not this question again.

The WHOLE POINT of the game for virtually ALL PLAYERS is personal power progression. I don’t “need” to be level eighteen much less eighty, but I play the game and level up to cap anyway.

The need for Ascended gear is that it exists. Not what you may or may not use it for.