Guild Wars 2

Nike.2631:

Nike.2631:

If I had to guess at the inner dialogue of the gnomes in Marketing, there will be a basic edition that does not have an extra character slot, and a deluxe version that — in addition to a ton of other whistles and bells to entice you to part with an extra 20 bucks — does have an extra character slot.

It’s just so perfectly one of those things that would be nice but isn’t strictly required for it be functional.

Spooky…

Some days the power of True Prophecy is really surprisingly satisfying. Called it to within $5 three months ago .

Ike None.5039:

Are you kidding me???

No. They aren’t. Maybe we’ll see you in the jungle launch day, maybe we won’t.

darkdomino.9578:

It’s just arrogance, plain and simple. Lot of people are voting with their wallets on this one.

You realize for a non-subscription game making the necessary big play to bring in a fresh crop of gem store shoppers, a bunch of veterans who’ve bought everything leaving the game is more like cleaning house than a giant fiscal disaster, right?

Understand what you’re saying when you call yourself “loyal”. Either it means you play a lot but don’t buy a lot, in which case your “loyalty” means virtually nothing to the bottom line OR you spend a lot and are invested in the game and have sunk costs so high $50 probably seems like peanuts and they know good and well they’ve got their hooks into you and don’t especially need to play courtship games.

Sure, it could have been handled more gracefully at the outset. I’m sure they’ll throw the vets a bone at some point – beyond the fact the vets have 80th level characters and a 3 year head start on the new crowd. But this outrage is mostly a sign they’ve correctly gauged how much people want to stay a part of the game they’ve come to love.

Fudge.9527:

Appreciate you posting this in here. Instead of CD changes, I’d rather our shield was actually able to proc one of our plethora of “on block” traits. Because, y’know, it’s a shield. And warrior shield blocks. And engi shield blocks. Yet Guard shield doesn’t block.

Also, the shield trait is still (relatively) bad. It’s competing with another trait that gives toughness, and it’s Master-tier when Warrior and Engi shield traits are Adept-tier.

THIS x about 90.

You also need a GLOBAL FIX of not allowing people to dodge roll through barriers… EVER. Seriously. Go try to somersault through a wall. I’ll wait. Collected a few bruises but managed to not break your neck? Good. Now FIX THIS.

smitske.4912:

Nike.2631:

Vote with your actions, because the caterwauling here in the forums is not nearly as compelling as a dip in the game metrics.

Good thing a lot of very good games have come out/are coming out, my HoT purchase went from insta buy to maybe after TW3/Fallout4/… from yesterday to today

Exactly. There is NOTHING WRONG with taking a wait and see attitude or holding out for a sale. And the players who stop logging in between now and HoT’s release because they’re no longer in rush to get it will apply a LOT more pressure than all of these threads combined.

AivenPrimus.9184:

EA Syndrome Nowadays.

Emulating an industry leader rolling in money? Can’t imagine how that would appeal to a marketing professional.

Its really not the same perception when its your livelihood and not some gamer’s disposable income sink.

Castaliea.3156:

WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR A CORE GAME I ALREADY OWN. YOU DIDN’T EVEN BOTHER MAKING A PURCHASABLE COPY IN THE GEM STORE FOR THOSE ALREADY PLAYING YOUR GAME?!

And yet I don’t see any veteran players lining up to link their expansion to a fresh account with 5 empty slots and absolutely none of the account-bound advantages they’ve amassed over the last three years.

You could do that, you know, if you think that free account is just SOOOO important. Such an utterly massive component of the value proposition.

Because I largely consider it a bit of lint stuck to the bottom of the package I’m actually buying.

DaShi.1368:

Good to know. I’ll just wait until it’s on sale. There’s plenty of other games on my list to play.

See, now this is completely reasonable.

They track EVERYONE’s account usage every second of every day. If people just wander off starting now and increasing heavily around launch day, they’ll have a stand-alone HoT sale.

Vote with your actions, because the caterwauling here in the forums is not nearly as compelling as a dip in the game metrics.

Haven’t picked it up yet but plan to grab the basic package. I don’t need an extra character slot and the other bits are nothing I’d drop an extra $15 for. I might get the $99.99 bundle… to me it 50 bucks of gems for 50 bucks and you get some junk free. I buy gems occasionally so that’s a deal I might take them up on.

Having more fun than the game itself watching people flip out though, so really I can’t complain about the price.

Empty threat is empty. You’ll buy it when it arrives – not sooner or later. If you play something else in the meantime, so what? None of those other games are churning out activities as fast as a person who plays at least 4 MMOs can chew through it.

When glacial progress just isn’t slow enough, we now offer action at geological speeds!

Threads like these mostly serve to reassure ANet that the hair and makeover kits have value. The Department of Shooting Yourself in the Foot applauds these threads because they are entirely self-defeating.

Now, if people were saying “meh, I couldn’t care less…” THEN maybe the price would come down. But the fact is ArenaNet is right: cosmetic changes have considerable value and people will pay for that value.

Given how desperate most gaming news outlets are the rest of the year (and thus willing to heaviliy showcase anything they can get their hands on) vs. how glutted they are at E3, I’ve always thought that releasing news there is about as clever as spitting into a hurricane…

Yeah, most people think its a great idea when stuff that costs money becomes nearly free.

Unless you’re the people selling that stuff.

Knighthonor.4061:

RAIDs are coming. ..get ready for the rage

Raid have been here for YEARS. They’re called ‘Guild Missions’.

You basically blew your question’s brains out the moment you used the word ‘ever’.

Will they return ever? Yes. They’ve said that. Does that ‘ever’ in mean some time in the next two years? You didn’t ask that.

ventusthunder.5067:

Do any of these crying kids actually know the next thing about guardian? Or are they just mad they lost to one so obviously it’s a game design problem?

Well given how few changes there have been to Guardians over the years, I think the Devs have answered that question definitively.

Or you could IGNORE all of it until after E3 is over, after the half-dozen stupidly confusing bits of phrasing have been clarified by the forum damage control team, and after multiple hours of waiting for Collin to get his turn and the bits being held back until later in the week surface and its all been distilled down to a 4 minute slick presentation video and a single page of bullet points.

Really. Check back in 10 to 12 days and save yourself some pain.

The nice thing about being “in a good place” is random crap like this will NEVER happen.

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

We like the idea of tomes and if we did this we would hope to bring them back in a future Elite Specialization.

Thoughts? Comments?

On consideration I think these will be a hard sell compared to the ubiquitous Renewed Focus if they don’t reset at least one virtue. It could be a specific virtue (Signet of Courage resets Virtue of Courage), it could be variable (Feel my Wrath also resets the virtue with the longest cooldown remaining) but with so much of the Guardian’s traits wound around their class mechanic, NOT having a reset of some sort is going to be a non-starter compared to Renewed Focus.

My Runes of the Traveler armor still works just fine. All speed buffs are a exercise in trade-offs. You can have it if you want it enough. The question is ‘are you willing to pay?’

I hope people realize we knew ALL OF THIS months ago. Where was the panic back then? There is no “problem” to address — its a fundamental part of the design. And if you hadn’t noticed, EVERYTHING about the traits revamp is about limiting options. Specifically limiting options to a pool small enough the players might finally stop completely destroying the Developer’s expectations for profession performance with builds they didn’t predict.

Hunter.4783:

And yet eles are in a better spot in sPVP right now and equally as good in PVE, so the point is moot.

Really? Did ArenaNet start posting their proprietary tracking data and I missed it? Because I’d love to read up on the actual numbers rather than some IMAGINARY presumption used to back an argument when their actions say that they are seeing something quite, quite different in the REAL DATA.

The third fix that’s been actually been talked about — and we’re starting to see happen — is to reduce the base functionality of skills/abilities and increase the contribution from the relevant attribute. We just saw a Zerker “nerf” announced today~ conditions are going to do less damage if you have less than (currently proposed) 700 condition damage. If your Zerker build does any damage at all via conditions, like say the occasional burns all Guardians generate, then your damage is going down. The fight lasts a little longer, and you are exposed to greater risk.

Do that same sort of pass for healing skills and healing power and Zerk will be the right choice for the very, very skillful… and a death sentence for the sloppy .

Oh boy. Another chance to sink character artist man-hours into something I’d pay money for piddled away by locking it together as yet another outfit.

I will PAY you for armor. Outfits, never.

The changes to Guardian traits – adding the +25% outgoing heal to the +300 Vitality GM trait could lead to some serious healing output on a dedicated life-bar watcher.

They can have a personal story right after the Guardians get personal story. And Rangers. And Mesmers. And…

So far as we know you’ll be able to use any utilities that you have access to now, plus the option (but not requirement) to use a new heal, a set of 4 new utilities, and a new elite skill.

In your example, yes, you could still use an all-Signet build while having the druid spec in your 3rd spec slot and the ability to equip a staff.

Skoigoth.9238:

Why don´t you people understand that bluntly making different gear prefixes “better” or “more viable” wont change anything?
There will always be most optimal strategies, team comps, builds and associated stat sets and the “meta” (a term being grossly misused in this context by some people here) will always settle around this optimum eventually.

And this is a perfect example of how developer and player perspectives differ. (Many)players WANT there to be a best choice so they can take it. Every time I’m in game and I hear some new player ask “what’s the best class?” I throw up in my mouth just a little… because if there is a right answer to that question the designer has done something HORIBLY WRONG. If that best answer remains best across a large range of activities it just gets more wrong.

Please, get over it already and let the devs do their job.

This may come as a shock to you, but creating a system where there are multiple similarly desirable solutions IS THE JOB. The game delivers on this principle well in some places and much, much less so in others.

NikeEU.7690:

Yeah, in May of 2013 most dungeon teams were 4 warriors 1 mesmer. Some groups were experimenting with using Elementalists and Thieves for DPS and stealth but “heavies only” was extremely common especially at the pug level.

Excellent. This maps to my experience. What’s changed?

Right now, the meta guardian build is 45005 and specs into Virtues for support. They focus their utility kills on defense with things like Wall of Reflect and Purging Flames rather than focusing on personal DPS by running a 66200 or 66002 build with Bane Signet for max DPS.

Heh. I feel like such a trendsetter (that is to say the support guardian you’re describing is within a couple points of how I ran for years).

Control as a role in the speed run meta is divided between Elementalist and Thief as specialists. The thief equips pistol offhand to strip defiant stacks quickly and the elementalist delivers a 5 second long CC with Deep Freeze. This is the core interaction at the heart of the dungeon and fractal speed clear meta. Thief sets them up, ele knocks them down.

So, parallel questions – are there traits you could take to further emphasize that sequence that you typically don’t? (weapon cooldown traits maybe?)

What bonuses would armor have to offer to make you take that theoretical stat bundle over Zerker? An alacrity stat maybe?

CrAcKeDmUfFiN.9402:

Is a Phalanx Strength Warrior not a specialist? Warrior drops from mid-tier damage to dead last to provide groupwide might and banners. Or is that not significant enough because they’re still wearing berserker’s gear?

Quite the opposite – the problem is that even when you’re committing to Support, there’s not a better choice than Zerker.

Maybe if Giver’s armor/jewelry had the boon duration stat the points OBVIOUSLY should be generating (1% per ten stat points as seen in several trait lines) instead of being castrated at 1% per piece, maybe the “zerker meta” would actually resolve itself…

NikeEU.7690:

You keep trying to defend yourself. I linked the article. It’s as clear as day there was never to be dedicated control or support roles, only a mix of the three. Which is what we have. Instead of replying line by line with insults and polemic, just take a deep breath and understand the point I’m making is correct and the original comment you made I responded to is wrong. Simple as that.

Look. Fact is I do have a lot of respect for your proficiency as a player (and your taste un screen names ). That does NOT directly map to proficiency as a designer, which is what I do for a living and it colors my perspective. So if you’re willing to not sit there and put bullcrap stingers on the end of you posts trying to kill discussion before it starts, I’m happy to talk with you.

Still ignored, so I’ll try again~

“Hey, it’s be nice if I COULD focus more on non-DPS aspects and not get spit on.” “Everyone is a fighter” only appeals to “fighters”.

The dungeon-meta is HIDEOUSLY stagnant (Edit: clarification – at the Pug level). It also pushes out whole categories of player-mindset that the game would like to retain. They’re trying to counter that on the player side with more options for support and for control oriented characters. I assume you’re able to skim the previews and see which way the wind is blowing.

What’s your take on the new E-specs in the dungeon environment? Reaper adds a strong melee component to the Necromancer toolbox – do you see anything about the ne E-Spec that’s going to make Reapers more desirable than Necros in pre-made high-skill dungeon groups? Yes, this may sound like a sidebar, but to me it directly relates to the dominance of Zerker in that mode and whether they will or even should make systemic changes that affect old content.

maha.7902:

so yeah, control is pretty kitten strong. in fact the whole meta is anchored around it right now – you shut down bosses with co-ordinated CC and burst them without interruption.

You say “right now”. Let me ask our various masters of mastery-ness:

Has the Dungeon meta-game meaningfully changed in the last 2 years?

CrAcKeDmUfFiN.9402:

Support and control currently are the definition of the meta. “Specialists” already exist and are the bedrock of a meta composition today.

I’ll bite. Walk me through what a “Support Specialist” and a “Control Specialist” look like.

NikeEU.7690:

Hahaha you realize Control is the most overpowered mechanic in PvE right now right?

If you define PvE as dungeons and nothing but, sure.

I don’t know what kind of groups you play in, but in organized groups of experienced players Control is so overwhelmingly powerful it defines the entire tactical approach we take.

It’s always nice to hear about the weather up on Mount Olympus. Down here in the scrublands things are maybe a bit different .

Secondly, I know you chose to ignore it but the message of that article is crystal clear: no one is a “dedicated control player.” Everyone is a “fighter” who also brings support and control.

And my message equally ignored was “Hey, it’s be nice if I COULD focus more on non-DPS aspects and not get spit on.” “Everyone is a fighter” only appeals to “fighters”.

Third, your definition of “support” is insanely narrow and not even accurate.

And clearly you didn’t understand me because (possibly because of the thin air up on the peak of awesomeness from which you survey the lowly) when I was pointing out might stacking ISN’T support, its DPS. We agree completely on the elements that do make up support. Which again probably would have been clear if you had any goal other than picking a fight.

Our “meta” groups bring DPS, Support (of all varieties) and overload on Control; we just divide up the duties among the 5 of us and don’t mandate any single character dedicate to a single role. You can admit it if you are honest enough: we are playing the game as it was designed to be played.

I agree you are playing the game excellently as it in fact IS. I can also point out plenty of cases where the game that IS is not what it was designed to be. And in a thread about changes, the status quo is not intrinsically better than all proposals (even if 90% of proposals ate not the top ten percent either …)

It is you, the person who advocates for dedicated support, healer, tank, control roles that is trying to upset the apple cart and ruin a good thing.

I am the person saying they clearly want to make control and support more of a thing you can focus on and I think arranging things so specialists deliver enough benefit that they could be one more tool in the toolbox of the elite is building on and adding to the goodness of the good thing we have now.

Again, reply only with apologies.

You seem to have the written equivalent of a verbal tic going. You might want to look into a writing coach. Or maybe get a proofreader. Its not nearly as clever as you think it is.

Fenrir.3609:

Yeah, wanting to make changes to gameplay/mechanics in order to teach bads who wear zerk gear a lesson doesn’t seem like the best idea in the world.

Raising the challenge/threat/danger level to where that happens more often than it does now seems like a GREAT idea to me. And that’s not just the spite talking .

Nike.2631:

No… That’s the fun for players who like to DPS. Believe it or not, all those players in other MMOs who run tanks, healers and CC masters…? Some of them actually enjoy THAT and GW2 basically takes a big dump on those customers at every turn.

NikeEU.7690:

If only anet had told us that the game would have active combat. If only they told us ahead of time all characters would be DPS. If only they told us ahead of launch that there would not be any dedicated “tanks, healers and CC masters.”

If only.

OH WAIT..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/guild-wars-2-has-no-healers-or-tanks

Please reply with apologies only.

Hmm. I’d have thought “Control” and “CC master” would be synonymous without me having to spell it out – especially for someone who is basically a bright person when they don’t want to just pick a fight. …Of course Control has worked out so well as a point in the GW2 triangle so far that is HAS been completely redesigned. So lets maybe stick to articles a little closer to demonstrable reality rather than pre-launch hype? And for the most part boosting DPS by mutual/cross buffing gets called “Support” just so we can pretend it exists.

And I’m on record as saying the entire tank role is an atrocity of bad AI design enshrined by equally bad habit so really, not a point I’m gonna tussle over.

Do you see me saying anything here about the psychology of large player bases that you have an actual dispute with? We’re not all dps-mongers. Honest. We’re not. And while ArenaNet could just write off that 30%-or-so I think they’d rather we stuck around and gave them money.

Most of the time, when I get on a tear about Zerker it’s NOT to make all Zerker parties manned by skilled players fail (or cease to be a thing). Its to make the shlubs who think they are hardkore mastah’ killahs face plant more often because frankly like every other role 90% the people playing it aren’t the top ten percent. DPS as a role just tends to let to tell yourself you’re so amazing because the game is very, very bad about testing that.

maha.7902:

No… That’s the fun for players who like to DPS. Believe it or not, all those players in other MMOs who run tanks, healers and CC masters…? Some of them actually enjoy THAT and GW2 basically takes a big dump on those customers at every turn.

yes, it takes a big dump on them by allowing them to do all of those things and yet do damage at the same time

how

dare

they

Not listening. You don’t do all those things and damage. You do those things somewhat (generally far less than you could build for) and are REQUIRED to do contribute to damage also (in successful groups). They made DPSing an obligation for all players instead of making groups obligated to wait for 1-2 non-DPS specialists. A strategy that on the whole has served them well because DPS-loving players are by far the largest demographic. But they are NOT 100% of the money coming in.

My most “healing oriented” character runs Zealot/Keeper armor because while I find a Heal-power pumped Battle Presence goes a LONG way towards keeping casual pugs and WvW zergs from face-planting (my zerker gear comes out for guild runs), fact is I MUST sling damage too. And I do. I’m not sitting here whining — I adapted to the game that IS long ago .

But we’re talking about tweaking the game. Changing what IS. I don’t need Zerker to be worse, but it would not break my heart if Healing Power/Zealots’ got better… Pure selfish self-interest speaking, but that’s the argument for Zerker too – those that like it, like it.

Fantastic QoL improvement!

cranos.5913:

I don’t get why ppl want to force guardian in a pure support role.

Making a support-focused character of any profession equally desirable to a 5th DPS lone wolf isn’t going to take away from the value of a DPS guardian spec’d, gear’d and run by a skilled player. And if someone tells you “You’re on a Guard, you have to be our support guy” I’ll be right here with you in spirit flipping them the bird.

The fun of GW2 is that everyone can DPS and has their unique class abilities to provide support/control to the fight.

No… That’s the fun for players who like to DPS. Believe it or not, all those players in other MMOs who run tanks, healers and CC masters…? Some of them actually enjoy THAT and GW2 basically takes a big dump on those customers at every turn.

You will probably never understand the sheer glee I’ve had in Stronghold spending the first 1/3-1/2 of the match pushing hard into the enemy camp and then falling back and using heals and support skills to make our Lord unbeatable against 3 and sometimes even 4 players while the rest of my team keeps the pressure on. A Lord fully healed and ready to laugh at them again by the time they pick their buttocks up and come back for a second (and third, and fourth…) try. Hallelujah! Only 3 years to get a mode where healing doesn’t get you spit on by competitive players.

spoj.9672:

Nike.2631:

I like a certain amount of planning over pure twitch. It’s a spectrum. There are more skills in the worlds of gaming than just reflexes and reading an attack telegraph animation.

Planning like choice of utilities, weapons and traits? Yes please. Forcing me to carry multiple sets of gear? No thanks.

The essence of this thread is a complaint that one set of gear “does it all” for a lot of content categories (chiefly Dungeons).

The choices are~

1. Make some other stat cluster the new go-to choice for a run. Possibly all runs.
2. Make optimal play of a single run take more that one set of gear.
3. Make fine adjustments until several stat combos are considered roughly equally valuable.

The second takes longer to prepare for as a player, but at least it’s not just swapping one devil for another equally tedious devil.

The third one is equal parts “good design” and “magic”. And achieving it is not a trivial undertaking.

TheRandomGuy.7246:

Aegis block next incoming attack, it never absorbed any damage. Protection, however, could work with active toughness.

100% is still a percentage. And it could scale .

But yes, stat-based variable effectiveness Protection might be easier for people to wrap their heads around at this point.

I like a certain amount of planning over pure twitch. It’s a spectrum. There are more skills in the worlds of gaming than just reflexes and reading an attack telegraph animation.

The “Zerker Problem” isn’t with the Zerker gear and playstyle, it’s the end product of two very different issues – that the vast majority of content is designed so that “kill it faster” IS the optimal solution if you have sufficient skill to stay alive and that the other stats either scale horribly or are outright meaningless.

If the content had (more) battles that required extended survival for effects that ticked often enough they couldn’t be blocked/evaded into insignificance or mechanics like ‘no crits’ you’d see (more) people carrying multiple sets of gear and swapping to the appropriate tools as needed.

If (for example) the amount of damage absorbed by Aegis scaled with your toughness (making it an active stat instead of an entirely passive one), you’d see people considering where and how much Toughness they can squeeze into their build without sacrificing too much damage. There would still be a sweet spot, but it might vary more from player to player depending on how much they rely on that particular defense.

Increasing the diversity of challenges is always going to be desirable for the game’s health and longevity. Adjusting mechanics so players consider more stats to be desirable is a trickier undertaking and has a lot of blind alleys that don’t represent progress.

These are quite clever and flavorful .

The Lord not healing creates a place where the Support role can finally shine.

Sorry all you mad-skillz lone wolf DPS killahs actually need us for a change, but it’s deliberate and probably not going to change.

CambrianExplosion.6394:

Dionosio.5168:

In short, you want a moba well, i’m a moba fan, but i’m not sure if i wanna see that on gw2

Mobas are balanced that way for a reason.

One of those reasons is they are the only thing to do in that game. This is a very small subsystem that can’t expect to eat up as much time as the winning side wants to milk it for. Some of us drop in to play and don’t want to get tied down for an indefinite timeframe.

Plus all the matches I’ve ever had time out were nail-biters because of it.

I think it’s hilarious people are accepting that spinning around is in any way a sensible strategy for throwing daggers in the first place…

How about the centaur thief just stands there and waves their arms a lot? A few backhand tosses to cover behind them and assorted side and forward flicks for the rest of the field of fire. That would actually be about 30 times more plausible than Daggerstorm is now…

Jaetara.4075:

I don’t get why so much hate from some people… how this could destroy your precious game play? Even if they add normal mounts, which I am not suggesting, cause I don’t really care about them, what could make it that terrible. Don’t get the mastery if you don’t like it! (if they do it anyways, this is just an idea).

Because “here’s more power/progression, but you don’t have to get it” has worked well as a game design principle exactly NEVER…

The elite Spec focus on doing things outside the norm for their parent profession. That’s why they have their own icons so people know at a glance to not expect “its a Guardian” or mistake a Reaper for a Necro.

Fortunately, no one will make you play one either and there’s plenty of need for stock Guardians out there.

This game (rightly) places a premium value on overland speed. Some professions pay for that privilege with it taking up a utility skill slot (various speed signets), some pay with a trait and having to equip some subset of weapons while out for a stroll, and all characters can pay the price by sloting 6/6 of certain rune sets.

A mastery that trivializes ALL of those options is gonna create a cascading poopstorm of work I don’t see them as being eager to take on right now. Or Ever.

Or he’s the mentor of the Pale Tree, which would, you know, actually be what the lore says. I don’t see nearly enough thorns on those vines for them to be anything but the nicey-plants.