Guild Wars 2

An immediate problem you run into is a character can have only one Elite specialization line – it MUST go into the 3rd slot. So if they’re all elite you have noting left to fill the first two rows.

Now you could make an argument for whatever/anything you place in the third slot gives you an extra something in that theme, but you’d still have to be really careful explaining it to players.

Alexandra Duet has been a shield-using Mesmer since launch.

maha.7902:

Nike.2631:

hmmz.4186:

you mean post a pic with least clothing

Hopefully it doesn’t have to devolve to that.

my god those graphical settings

Hmm? I assume you mean they are horribly low?

Well it’s been interesting to see this shake out against how they actually implemented things.

Necro – Greastsword turned out correct and rumor has it Elementalist main-hand-sword is a thing.

That all new skills for each Elite spec belong to one skill type the class didn’t previously have is not something I expected but they may still line up somewhat with Engineers (finally) getting Signets.

Yeah, waiting for the full-flavored version of this thread that will inevitably arise after all 8-9 are out.

I have five guards – two are going to become long bow users (have all the mats to make Aether and Wintersbite) and a third might switch for the traps. I have two 80 Necros and neither are going Reaper. Of my three Mesmers, one will probably become a Chronomancer because it’s a pretty good fit to themes I already have for the character.

hmmz.4186:

you mean post a pic with least clothing

Hopefully it doesn’t have to devolve to that.

I would like to see the shouts all add a small buff to MINIONS ONLY. In a pure shout build it’ll combo off of using Rise! first, but gives this line of Utilities more synergy with some of the Necro’s other tools.

Give minions fury, gives minions retaliation, gives minions protection. Lots of small but tasty possibilities.

Plus if anther elite spec get minions (Engineers, maybe) it would create some cross-class synergy.

Ranged weapons, protection, and retaliation are all pretty handy…

I just want to know what armor this is in the reaper deathshroud clip in the interview…

Ragnarox.9601:

…I’ll stick to my medi build

If you’re looking to DPS and you’re sticking to the strongest DPS build we have… then they’ve done something RIGHT.

When a change will give us more presence at range but not more than the current max raw damage we can do that’s neatly dodging the power creep that needs to be dodged.

The real power of this toolbox is not going to be known until well after people do some deep mixing and matching with all the other altered traits and find the sweet spot that mixes in some of what they’ve given us vie the Elite spec with the best of what we’ve had before. Longbow as the back-up to our real main weapon choice because every competitive Ranger ever will tell you pure ranged ain’t a working thing in this game. One trap used to complimenting our best utilities not a whole tray of traps just because they are the new shiny.

So… what armor is this? It was in a reaper video in an interview…

(doesn’t look familiar to me)

Nike.2631:

HoT is a physical box.

Which means its not going to have a release date announced without 3-4 months of advanced notice to retailers. (mid) August is now the absolute earliest and even that gets less and less likely every day.

The laws of retail logistics have not changed since HoT was announced .

Zarania.5879:

the retailer in question is NCSOFT.

No… the retailer is Amazon. Who are beyond notorious for making things up for when it comes to availability dates when they can take and hold your money until then.

ZoroDaOtter.3859:

Hmm…if this is added in, will the Tomes be removed the same patch?

Let’s reframe that question and see if it doesn’t answer itself…

“Hey, Arenanet, how about you have one and only one profession have FIVE elite skills to choose from until you get rid of the two old ones that don’t fit the new emphasis on unified utility skill types?”

Because there’s no chance the other 7 professions would explode into frothing rage .

dietzero.3514:

So all of the Pact are dragon hunters…

NOooo. All of the Pact fight against dragons. The Order of Dragonhunters are exclusively made up of members trained as Guardians who have access to a new set of techniques that came out of the cross-pollination I described. Now those techniques will propagate to other guardians such as those who chiefly battle in the mists (sPvP & WvW) but the source of those techniques is still the Order of Dragonhunters and the common name for all who wield them is… Dragonhunter.

ANet’s precise vision of how it all comes about may not be known until launch, and it may not be explored/elaborated on even then. But I think the unavoidable lore aspect is the Elite Specializations are new. We didn’t fail to notice chronomancers among us for the last 3 years… they either didn’t exist or were actively hiding from the world. The same march of time that has brought us guns and pistols has also brought us new techniques and practices amongst the professions.

dietzero.3514:

Jon’s explanation made no sense. I think he needs to actually research the words he is using before he posts…

Ok, since it seems to be a day for reality checks.

Technical writing/design and narrative writing/design are different skill sets. Lots of people are amazing at one and mediocre at best to the other.

Jon came out and presented the exact kind of post you share with designers — because HE IS ONE. If you have that kind of background, he was ELOQUENT. Sadly, his audience was players, whom you generally win over with narrative writing skills. Not because they’re dumb but because its kitten near a different language. I’m sure behind closed doors he’s been duly chastised for conversing with us like peers instead of customers. And probably in terms not to far off from that. I certainly know John Smith has been slapped on the wrist for it and he’s directly biting in his commentary when he’s in a mood. We’re unlikely to see Jon open up again for a long time and that’s a pity. But by the same token I’m sure his bosses wish they’d caught it before it went out and re-processed those insights through one of the (many) outward-facing writers on staff.

Genesis.8572:

Haven’t we been in the “circumstances of the age” for well over a hundred years at this point? The only thing remotely new are the sylvari, Mordremoth, and the Pact.

My thinking, and I cheerfully acknowledge this is nothing but personal head-canon until we see more in-game is that the Dragonhunters (and honestly I say “Order of Dragonhunters” under my breath half the time I read the word) has been something that’s only been coming together since the formation of the Pact. We see a bunch of different branches of Guardians brought together from the five races and the Three Orders’ separate vision of what it means to be a guardian — because dang if a Whispers Guardian and a Vigil Guardian are the same in my book — and unlike the last 100 years they are actively playing on offense and winning. This new Order gets their techniques from many roots over the last generation or two but their overall structure just in the last year. I see it as no more radical a shift/creation than the abrupt proliferation of Pact weapon technologies and vehicles.

Not all of the cross-pollination was scientific. More mystical disciplines built on common ground to do something new too.

I hope that Anet takes a long look into what has been put forward. If it is too late for a class name-change at this point, I am sure they will still have found great insight from these threads and the community’s reaction in general.

Well then good luck to you. I like the current name just fine.

Maybe we’ll both get lucky and they’ll name one of the other elite specs something that grinds my gears and you can critique me as I operate from similar footing .

I wish I lived in a world where “Don’t bite the hand that feed’s you” wasn’t good advice.

It’d be more ridiculous if they didn’t take note. One black check mark might not mean anything by itself, but don’t think for a moment the checkmark doesn’t exist.

Like I said, I’m interested to see how it plays out. Industry watching can be fun.

I’ll be more fascinated to see how many of them contributing to this discord are ever invited back. Some certainly, but not all I bet.

You did read that dragonhunters – plural – are an outgrowth of the circumstances of the age and not just lunkhead’s personal mommy issues, yes?

Genesis.8572:

And you are claiming that my outlook is simply a vocal minority and doesn’t matter. Are you interested in having a conversation or just in shutting down and naysaying those opposed to the “dragonhunter” name?

“I’m fine with it” doesn’t generally call for a lot of chest beating to still get what you want. And there WAS a time to have this discussion and see some real impact: December 2013. You can see the origins of whole system for elite specs in the Horizontal Progression CDI.

A fair portion of my irritation comes down to respect. The ArenaNet designers don’t do what I’d prefer at every turn, but they’ve sure as hell earned the right to take their chances. If they wanted to call the Necromancer Elite “Gooseberry Muffin” my eyebrows would go up, but I still wouldn’t have foam dripping from my mouth when I asked them “hey, whasuup with that?” And push your cheek into their outstretched hand and call it being slapped in the face if you want, but the further explanation they gave for the Dragonhunter name not only made sense to me, but was largely reiterating what I’d already gleaned from the blog.

Design by committee is pretty much the short road to crap in game design. Its better to have some highs and lows, some hits and misses than to churn out uniform gruel. Maybe this is a low. I don’t think so. But even if it is, why on Melandru’s green Tyria would they invite us to second-guess them at every turn, and massively multiply their workload in the process?

So please. By all means continue (at least within the confines of the designated thread). Rant and rave to your hearts content. I’m just trying to offer a little perspective – that you can probably find a better use for the energy being expended. The ‘fight’ isn’t just over. It’s my belief there was never a fight in the first place.

((shrug)) Or maybe you’ll prove me wrong, and I still won’t be too worried about it. I’ve already won ‘the battle’ I care the most about – how elites actually work.

Genesis.8572:

Why are you even participating in this thread stirring the discontent in this teapcup?

Because YOU claimed that my entire outlook barely exists or matters. I do occasionally rouse myself to say “nope, still here” . I’m sure warm welcomes like this contribute greatly to why you aren’t seeing that the other side of the coin is amply occupied. Thanks for making it clear you don’t want a discussion and that the opposing view shouldn’t even come to this lovely place. Sorry to disturb the purity of your outrage.

I think the reality people need to embrace is that the game is bloated with self-sufficient DPS specs and the Elites, while certainly capable in that arena are going to be pretty actively designed to NOT be the next big thing in all-around heavy hitters.

Leo G.4501:

Well what about the many compromises suggested that would only require they change the name? There’s more than one suggestion that DOESN’T require them to “start over on all the work”.

Ok, I’ll bite. Which of these names goes well with draconic armor and a draconic Elite? We’ll leave out the profession icon just to keep things sporting.

Genesis.8572:

That must be why the requested that we stop giving them feedback on the name.

I encourage you to look up the word ‘placate’. It costs them very little indeed to let this tempest sit in its teacup.

Genesis.8572:

Look at the public fan voices of GW2. See what they think about the ‘Dragonhunter’ name. Look on this forum. Count up the names advocating against and defending. What is your evidence that this is just a minority faction again?

Counting your own echoes in a box isn’t a majority of anything. I can’t be the only person who likes the name, appreciates the thought process behind it and also has no desire to get banned until well after HoT is out for being completely honest about my feelings for the whole so-called discussion.

It’s not like naming the spec was the last thing they did- its fairly obvious from a design standpoint the name was settled on in the first quarter or so of the process and then used to guide decisions that followed – its a heavy armor bow user, conceptually that means NOT a skirmisher (like Rangers). Heavy armor evokes visions of standing your ground against overwhelming numbers or charging into the thick of the worst fighting — not kiting or chasing. All fitting in with a toolbox famous for not having high mobility (Guardian lines).

That and their elite didn’t just draw itself – the decision was made to give it a draconic FX. Same as the decision was made to use a dragon head on the class armor item. It has it’s own profession symbol. Haven’t seen it yet but if there’s not a dragon involved in the iconography I’ll be shocked.

Reality check: They are NOT going to change the name and start over on all the work that went into supporting the name that was chosen. Even if some people shout real loud from inside the boxes this not-ever-a-debate has been shuffled off to.

Thanks guys. Good input. I should have considered Stability-through-Trap-Traits.

Hopefully ANet will consider it (or something like it) too.

I just keep thinking that if they don’t do something for conditions, stun breaks, or both, the dedicated trapper won’t even live long enough to be a ‘fad build’.

I use scepter/focus with my SW guard. The ranged root is essential to pinning down targets so they can’t run from the sword/hammer and with the incredible long leashes on SW you need a ranged weapon to actually capitalize on their burning desire to hunt enemies all the way out to draw distance .

lordhelmos.7623:

For the record, I don’t have any qualms with the name. However I am curious as to how the lore of the Dragonhunter will fit with the Nightmare Court and other factions with alliances to the dragons.

I’m going with “Shoot them in the face with searing light until they die” as my Dragonhunter’s immediate gut reaction to an organization committed to spreading pain and despair. Even if they aren’t direct dragon minions, you can’t leave vile filth like that breeding in you back line. It’s unsanitary.

Dragonhunters, now with the power of scrubbing bubbles. Cleans evil ’til it sparkles.

(I’m now calling the trap that leaves Aegis fragments to be picked up my “scrubbing bubbles”. Fear them .)

With all traps gaining the half second arm time what was already a poorly regarded and likely objectively weak set of utilities gets a little worse.

Its possible they see that as fair trade for making ground targeted placement a freebie, but I’d like to think we’re going to see a major jump in the impact of all traps when they work. There is a lot higher skill cap involved in their placement and use than many skills, and that effort should be rewarded proportionately.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

@ OP, traps are ground targeted (for all classes that use them) once the new build goes live. It will be a base effect.

So the Ready Up video was just plain wrong? I didn’t hear them mention that, but I might have missed it. Traps were was place-at-self throughout the demo.

Your forth suggestion is moot. They already will have a max target of 5, it will just be a small radius 5 targets have to be in.

There is nothing moot about a target cap of 8 .

As for my suggestion.

Your traps heal you (amount TBD) when cast & daze (1 second) enemies when triggered.

That could be very handy! .

I’d be fine if it was larger and more visible… if it was BEHIND my character and didn’t clip with every shield ever. If messaging that I have Aegis up is SO IMPORTANT then why is it all but invisible on Asura Guards and a big blue blob on Norn?

Its ridiculous. To get good clean screen caps of my Guard in any combat stance I have to jump in a pool of water, pop my virtue, , let a fish take my aegis off, and then swim out and get my screenies in the next few seconds.

While the new traps look fun there’s still only a single trait to improve your trap gameplay (adding burning, which is some good damage but doesn’t add depth of conditions to shelter investment of effort against condition removal).

Let’s throw out some things that they could put together into some robust trait bundles at either the Adept, Master, or Grandmaster level.

• -20% cooldown (surprised not to see this already)
• Traps use ground targeting (also conspicuously absent)
• increased trap effect radius
• increased trap max targets (+3?) Fun for WvW!
• Setting traps and traps being triggered removes a condition (very helpful to making a trap-heavy build survivable)
• gain swiftness for N second when a trap is triggered. They step in it, you dance around them.
• when any of your traps are triggered you are granted you a stun-break
• Traps awaiting triggering act as light fields.
• Non-elite Traps can be cast twice before going on cooldown, similar to mantra charges (grandmaster-scale but fun)

I’m sure folks can come up with a ton more .

((I would also encourage the Devs consider adding a stun break when you set the elite trap (or possibly the healing trap) for all Dragonhunters, giving the skill additional tactical layering as something you can use to sharply turn the tide mid-fight as an alternative to pre-casting everything.))

You can still use the existing heals. The trap heal is an additional option (that future specs will not have access to).

As Dragonhunters have almost NO trait support for traps, feel free to pitch it over the side on your build.

Mage.5367:

http://strawpoll.me/4316204

I particularly like how you left out the incumbent – Dragonhunter – so you could avoid watching it walk all over the other choices AGAIN.

Swizzle.7982:

This is akin to a comedian not receiving any laughs and then blaming the audiences’ poor grasp of humour. Perhaps the comedian is just kitten?

The analogy would probably hold up better if the room were actually silent. It’s not. There IS a divide between those who like it and those who don’t. Trying to say that line is “maturity” is probably not giving the impression you think it is .

Plus there’s a whole bunch of folks in the room who recognize the act on stage is pretty secondary to what an incredible meal has just been put in front of them and are largely ignoring the applause and the hecklers.

Future.8641:

JonPeters.5630:

I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking.

Dragonhunter.. doesn’t feel in any way “mature”. It’s what a five year old would say if you asked him what he wants to be when he’s all grown up. Only by that time he’s an accountant.

And yet plenty of the adults in the room like it.

Might want to find a better lever than “nya nya I think you’re immature!” if you want to move this rock. Calling Devs something akin to five-year olds doesn’t work real well in my experience.

Arnath.2319:

What happens when we receive our second elite specialisation? Do we stop hunting dragons?

You stop using the skills (and profession symbol) of the ‘Order of Dragonhunters’ essentially.

How do you normally justify ANY spec swapping from a lore-based standpoint?

MelGT.8326:

I think the problem is, this just came out of nowhere.

To us maybe. I’m sure they’ve had time to let it roll around on the tongue and in the ear for months.

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter. We went with this name because we felt it was evocative of the medieval witch hunters. Guardians consider themselves protectors of the innocent. Followers of their faith be it in honor, valor, etc. The origin of the dragonhunter is a more subtle nuanced version of this. Guardians fight for justice and the dragonhunter faction believes justice is the eradication of dragons and their minions. I understand this is a lot more high concept than Mesmer but at the end of the day we felt like we wanted to try and push a more mature theme here. I hope this helps explain our thinking. We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

JonPeters.5630:

A couple notes on Dragonhunter.
…
We had other generic names in mind but felt like it was important to have a mix of spec names that are generic fantasy, more Tyrian fantasy, and more high concept. This one falls more in the third category.

Thanks,

Jon

Trust me. Some of us get it. Some of us even got how it fit into and arose from the setting just by reading the initial blog description of the lore/background/theme.

Thought you might want to put some kind of “dragon hunter chapterhouse” on the Meguma maps just to really ram the point home.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

In the form of urns

Look into my eyes (which are wrapped) you know this to be true.

Reasons:

What we lack: support, blast finishers, mobility
What banners are: support, blast finishers
What urns can do for us: ghostly aura that boons and augments, in GW1 the ritualist could carry them
What they can do in GW2: be a mobile banner and to be dropped for blast finishers or thrown to a location to be used as a mark for teleportation
Robert Gee who showcased both the mesmer and necromancer is an Anet legend dating back to GW1 days, also the prime man behind our current chronomancer, a call back to Guild Wars: Utopia which unfortunately did not see light. As he loves his callbacks to GW1, he may do another callback in the form of the necromancer specialization.

Would certainly be interesting…

Dream In A Dream.7213:

Because its a ranger spec for a guard. I can just play a ranger if I want to play a ranger.

Now you can play an Archer with Runes of the Trapper without a &$(&@ing mutt chewing up a huge percentage of your expected damage.

And you don’t have to wear a trenchcoat.

heartless.6803:

A-Net is trying to turn meta on it’s head. Medi Guards have always been able to wreck thieves of equal skill. Dragon Hunters will wreck them without even breaking a sweat. It’s okay, you have a counter. It’ll be fine somebody out there will counter you now, and counter you hard. It’s not the end of the world, welcome to where literally everyone else is.

No a skilled thief of equal skill will never beat a Dragon Hunter, they will just demolish you.

Heh. I run a super-unicorn Thief. That fight is a LOT more interesting that you might think .

Leo G.4501:

So then Zealot might work as a name after all.

Other than the class has a trait line named Zeal that your Zealot may or may not actually take. Which means no, its not a useable Elite-Spec name for guards at all.

Same as we wont see Elite “Tactician” Warriors or “Acrobat” Thieves.

Nike.2631:

…there’s about 0% chance traps of any class will require a trait to use cursor-ground placement. Seems like they’ve boiled all of those traits out of the game with the general re-vamp.

phys.7689:

from the vid, doesnt look like they are ground targeted, looks like only rng will throw traps.

I admit being quite shocked by that. On the other hand given how powerful they seemed, I can see why they would go that way.

But like you I kinda prefer cast-at-self ground skills so It’s not detracting from my enthusiasm to try the Dragonhunter in the least .

JonPeters.5630:

Tome of Courage -> Signet of Courage
Passive: PBAoE Heal every 10 seconds.
Active: Light of Deliverance

Would like to see this pulse much faster. 3 seconds (same tempo as Battle Presence) at the longest — 2 seconds being better. With our low health pool we need something that gets in to play really soon after a spike starts.

Tome of Wrath -> “Feel My Wrath”
Shout that grants Quickness and Fury

As others have said, throw in a PBAoE knock down and you have a deal.

JonPeters.5630:

Wanted to run a potential idea past you all. Comments welcome.

Jon

Please consider: We could keep the current tomes but categorize the skills the tomes give, making tomes an effective capstone for all 5 utility skill types.

An example of possible assignments~

Tome of Courage
((Signet)) Heal Area Heal allies in the target area.
((Spirit Weapon)) Purifying Ribbon Release a ribbon of light that bounces to nearby enemies and allies, curing conditions on each ally hit and blinding each foe hit.
((Consecration)) Protective Spirit Grant protection and regeneration to allies in a cone.
((Symbol)) Pacifism Pacify foes, dazing them for three seconds.
((Shout)) Light of Deliverance Fully heal up to five nearby allies.

Tome of Wrath
((Consecration)) Conflagrate Burn foes in the target area.
((Spirit Weapon)) Affliction Send out a projectile that makes foes crippled and weak.
((Shout)) Smiter’s Boon Send out a cone that grants might and swiftness to allies.
((Symbol)) Zealot’s Fervor Grant fury and quickness to all nearby allies.
((Signet)) Judgment Knock down and damage nearby foes with a massive blast.

These are chosen to interact properly with the new skill-type based buffs in the trait lines~

Consecrations – Master of Consecrations:
•Recharge reduced: 20%
•Duration increase: 20%

Shouts – Pure Voice:
•Recharge reduced: 20%
•Conditions Converted to Boons: 1

Signets – Perfect Inscriptions:
•Recharge reduced: 20%
•Effectiveness increased: 20%

Spirit Weapons – Expeditious Spirit:
•Recharge reduced: 20%
•Apply Burning

Symbols – Writ of Persistence:
•Heal
•Duration increase; 2 sec
•Radius increase: 60

heartless.6803:

Yeah on ready up they pumped out some huge damage with Dragon Hunter condi build. Because guards can do reliable short duration bleeds and burns and the fact they stack in intensity and not duration got some pretty huge condi damage fairly quickly.

Also, RIP in peace thieves dragon hunters gonna own you.

I am totally looking forward to swapping 2 of my guards over to DH… but anyone who fails to respect a well handled thief is gonna abruptly find themselves back at the nearest spawn-point wondering where the hell their kidneys went…

Watched the ACTUAL Dragonhunter reveal…

Day-amn. That’s gonna be a blast to play.

Nike.2631:

Come at me, bro.
((places another trap))

Ok, after watching the Ready Up reveals I am SO looking forward to this.