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And that’s a problem with people imposing their expectations on how they want the game, specifically Guardians, to be conceptualized and developed when it’s not their game to do so.
People need to understand how this dev group appears to be one that tries new things. They throw out the rulebook. I’m sure they don’t care that players think the elite spec should be close to the traditional Paladin class. I’m even more certain it’s probably the farthest thing they would want for an elite spec to be on Guardians.
It makes no sense to some people but the explanations I’ve seen from Anet and players are plausible. People don’t get that it’s enough.
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Like I said, the name matters little to how the spec plays. Are those names out of place? Are you insulting my intelligence to suggest that those names have any reason whatsoever to be in a fantasy MMO and Dragonhunter does not? Pontificate the theoreticals all you want. There is NO person so unreasonable that would claim that a game centered around dragons as the main nemesis couldn’t have a DH theme in it. That’s not really the problem people have with the theme anyways.
Depends. I would probably just not play the spec if I thought it wasn’t worth playing. I think a name is a really weak reason to not play something. Besides, there are going be 7 other elite specs I could play as well if the spec didn’t suit me. I’m more concerned about my game experience, not what something is called.
As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.
Unless someone decides to buy up everything and price it higher. What do you do when you need mats?
If that actually happened, it would be a relevant point to discuss. For me personally, that would be awesome! I would really encourage someone to do that.
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I dunno, where is it? Maybe you should make your own MMO and make that a theme for the class, just like Anet did. See how well you do. Personally, I don’t consider Pillowfluffer in theme with GW2 but apparently you got an axe to grind and have no more valid points to make so have fun with putting another hole in this sinking ship.
How can it not be in theme if ANet made it.
I don’t consider DH in theme for Guardian, but you disregarded that fairly easily.
You lost me … as far as I know, Anet didn’t make a Pillowfluffer theme. What you consider a theme in GW2 is actually not relevant.
As a farmer I would PREFER MORE randomization in nodes because it would result in more money when I go to sell the mats I get from them and when I do farm for my own mats, means I can do it where ever I want. The people claiming random drops are a great system acknowledge the equality in availability through the market, not on the supply side, which has no effect on them anyways. They know that their supply is through the market, not through doing stuff.
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I’m not hung up with inconsistencies; that’s just storytelling. I’m hung up by … lazy and unoriginal. If we get fed another “Paragon/Sentinel/Archon” like name, it will demonstrate that Anet has given up on bringing us original and unique content.
Because Dragonhunter is so original and unique…
Are you suggesting it’s not or are you here to pick another fight? Perhaps you want to appear less confrontational and respond to the OP’s idea.
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I’m not hung up with inconsistencies; that’s just storytelling and can be tweaked or even left as is. I’m hung up by … lazy and unoriginal. If we get fed another “Paragon/Sentinel/Archon” like name/theme, it will demonstrate that Anet has taken the first step to giving up on bringing us original and unique content.
Any experienced MMO player (and dev) can say “Oh look, sword and board with heavy armor and a bit of magic for protection/heals … that’s a Paladin. You are now Paladins”. I wouldn’t mind seeing what Anet can come up with and giving it a chance before I have to suffer another case of a Game Dev trying to convince me their version of Paladin is more unique and engaging than the last 10 versions I’ve played.
Inconsistency to me means one thing: Anet is committed to doing something new and different that people don’t have a complete understanding of. Sounds refreshing. I also don’t think we can start playing the game where we think other classes have better names, so this one must be bad. That get’s us pretty much no where.
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I considered staff but it won’t work well with Pure of Sight.
It’s better. My beef with DH as a name is it’s too specific. DBane is just vague enough to let me imagine a little.
Here is the funny thing I have the right to complain all I want about a game. Just like you have the right not to read or care what i say. Im not saying I wont get it im saying its just a month worth of patches In one day for 50.00 but of course you will show how smart you are and say something back. lol
No one said you didn’t but then again you don’t know how many months worth of patches it is; you pretty much ignored everything you weren’t interested in then proclaimed it wasn’t enough content. I’m smart enough to know the expansion is more than a map and a class and that we are paying for more than a LS patch.
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I dunno, where is it? Maybe you should make your own MMO and make that a theme for the class, just like Anet did. See how well you do. Personally, I don’t consider Pillowfluffer in theme with GW2 but apparently you got an axe to grind and have no more valid points to make so have fun with putting another hole in this sinking ship.
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Why do you nerf Salvage Kits by increasing the chance to salvage sigils/runes
How is this nerf? Because you don’t want them?
pls read whole post
I did. I guess I just couldn’t believe that someone was complaining that they would get MORE value from salvaging and considered that a nerf. I get it now … you’re lazy so getting more stuff to sell is a nerf to you.
Everything ArenaNet has added to the game post launch is kinda irrelevant really since most MMO’s release content patches, I’d actually argue that other MMO’s put more content into the game in a year of patches than ArenaNet has in 3.
Wow, that’s a pretty obtuse statement right there. The content Anet has added to GW2 is irrelevant because it doesn’t match the approach for introducing content that typical MMO’s have? No words to say how nonsensical that is.
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If it’s not worth it to you, don’t buy it. Of course, you also give up your right to complain that you can’t play the content either or any limitations you might have in the future as well. I’m sure Anet will make it available at a discounted rate as a package with another account a year or so after the release.
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Why do you nerf Salvage Kits by increasing the chance to salvage sigils/runes
How is this nerf? Because you don’t want them?
I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.
In my mind many of the elite classes are opening up powerful and different play styles for each class.
For guardian, I don’t see what is being offered in the expansion as powerful at all. If anything I see a whole new level of mediocricty being offered to us.
Nor does it feel interesting at all seeing as how you could just roll a ranger to do what the DH does.
The guardian elite class is more of an afterthought than a powerful new way of playing guardian.
Again, I think that’s too general an assessment. There will be similarities for sure between tools on the various professions. A Warrior will not give Guardian like play because they share shouts and swords either so I don’t get how you would get a Ranger-play experience from a Guardian spec simply because they share a LB and traps.
I’m not sure it’s an afterthought but one thing I have noticed is of the three we have seen so far, the Guardian elite spec addresses players issues with the Guardian class the most directly. I think that’s just indicative of where the profession’s evolution in the game is as opposed to classes that have more serious deficiencies and issues.
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I’m of the opinion that if Anet throws typical, established ideas of Guardian/Paladin class into an elite spec, it will frankly be very boring. DOn’t really care how wacky it is but I think we can definitely say that boring isn’t a reason people stick with anything. I don’t think at this point people should be expecting Anet to bring ‘’typical" MMO stuff to GW2. We have many things that don’t conform. The game already has a base of players that know this so for Anet to ‘cater’, they should actually continue to challenge these typical MMO fantasy themes.
If i remember correctly, they disbanded their dungeon team awhile back. That says it all.
This…hurts. I know GW2 isnt meant to be your traditional MMO but to leave the dungeons so untouched for 3 years is absolutely horrible. When I think about getting into GW2 again, which I currently am thinking about, I think about how stagnant the dungeons are. I like dungeons. I dont like them to be the only thing I do at endgame…I can only stomach so much forced group content. But dungeons need to be there and arenanet fails miserably at boss mechanics and frequency with adding new dungeons.
Anyone suppose that if this is true that the cause is the exclusionary and abusive behavior of dungeon speed riders. Remember the game especially PvE is suppose to be co-op friendly and not someplace where abusiveness and rudeness is the norm.
Just maybe if those zerk only, speed runners who kick others over the smallest things were nicer, we would have gotten more dungeons.
Perhaps right at the beginning of the game that was true because I was shocked the first time someone described a situation where they kicked a team mate for ‘selfishly’ using a non-zerker gear. At that time, it was described to me as a pretty universal way to deal with said selfish players.
I think since then, it’s become adopted behaviour, and the practice is not always gear-related. I’ve suggested the same suspicion on the demise of Anet’s dungeon efforts recently in a thread where a zerker speed runner was complaining about lack of dungeon development and their own experience with getting kicked. I suggested it will need players to change their attitudes to align with the target player audience. Predictably, this was turned around and the target player audience was blamed for forcing other people into that behaviour because of their selfish approach to the game.
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Maybe not all the dragons die? They got eggs, they make new ones.
It’s irrelevant to Anet … I’m sure they didn’t test the name with your approach, otherwise they would have come to the same conclusion.
I don’t really see much more being provided though. I’m not riling anyone up anymore than the people making ridiculous arguments to change it. DO you actually think that if you have 30 pages of “we hate DH”, it’s more compelling without a contrasting opinion?
We got people who think the name is bad simply because Anet provided their reasoning behind it. Other people trying to pass off their judgement of the name being bad as a universal fact. That’s not good faith and it’s also REALLY weak, almost ignorable dribble.
I actually haven’t heard a single reason for why this name is bad, other than some vague notions of thematic inconsistencies. Maybe people shouldn’t lie and just admit they think it’s not very clever or that it’s not appealing; at least that’s honest.
No, instead they nit pick ridiculous points like “Oh, they mentioned witch hunter and big game hunter is a trait name … that’s confusing, which is it?” That’s just obtuse. It’s not that alien that the DH theme is attached to Guardian, it’s simply that people don’t LIKE the idea it’s attached to the Guardian and saying it’s bad to justify asking to change it.
Is thematic inconsistency the best players can do for a reasoning to change the name? If there is any actual issue with the name, it’s that it’s far to specific for the tastes of MMO players who want to have something left to the imagination. The theme itself works.
Finally, I think if people didn’t have such a fixation on what THEY think a Guardian should be and look at how the tools are coming together, we would be seeing suggestions for names like “Predator”, or “Stalker”, or “Trapper”. Yes, these names suck because I just thought of them on the spot but they are WAY more closely aligned to the idea that Anet has for the elite spec than any other name I have seen yet. People want to force their own ideas of what a Guardian is and they are doing it by protesting the name.
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Anet explained why it fits the core class. If get your opinion differs from Anet’s but that does not make it a fact that DH is a bad name. Good and Bad does not factor into this; I sincerely don’t believe that Anet choose the name because it was their goal to choose the worst one. This is what you’re argument amounts to. If you’re argument does not take Anet’s explanation into account, it’s worthless nonsense.
Is thematic inconsistency (which is a matter of taste) the BEST argument we can come up with to why the name should change?
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Except the Reaper themes fit the core class of the Necromancer. The DH themes do not fit the core class of Guardian.
That’s just a matter of opinion. There have been some very GOOD explanations of how a Guardian can spec into a DH.
That’s just a matter of opinion. There have been some very GOOD explanations of how a Guardian can’t spec into a DH.
See how that work, I can do it too.
Once again, the Necro core class has themes of death and cold, so does Reaper.
The Guardian core class does NOT have themes of dragons or hunting.
It doesn’t need to have those themes. It’s simply given them by Anet, who make the theme up as they see fit.
It also doesn’t fail the name association test I mentioned (either in here or the other thread), unlike the Dragonhunter.
The only reason it doesn’t fail your irrelevant name test is that it’s so vague that it could literally mean anything people thinks it should mean.
Except the Reaper themes fit the core class of the Necromancer. The DH themes do not fit the core class of Guardian.
That’s just a matter of opinion. There have been some very GOOD explanations of how a Guardian can spec into a DH.
I guess I will do the same then. Glad that’s cleared up.
Then you got nothing to worry about! You can now stop posting the “ANET is not wrong, so the theme does fit” posts. If you want to start using coherent arguments though, that’s a whole new story.
Ditto. There isn’t anything to worry about for anyone actually. That means you can stop posting the Anet IS wrong posts as well.
Not a single person as been able to provide a logical explanation for the terrible Dragon Hunter theme.
… other than Anet. That’s what matters.
No they haven’t given a LOGICAL explanation.
No one has shown their explanation isn’t logical at all. Simply dismissing their explanation does not make it illogical. Besides, who determines it’s logical? It’s part of a made up story that they make up. It can be whatever they want. Obviously they think it fits their story.
It’s illogical because they can’t even keep a consistent theme with itself, let alone with the rest of the base class. Is it a “high concept” witch hunter-type religious fanatic, or is it a “big game hunter” that engages targets from afar and baits them into traps? Is it a backline support, or is it an offensive skirmisher meant to chase the enemy down?
The fallacies are there. Choosing to ignore them under the umbrella of “because Anet says so” doesn’t make them go away.
We’ve already addressed this. Necros have the same thing. In fact, Anet acknowledge it was their approach to the Necor elite spec. There is no reason to think the Guardian concept can’t cross over multiple themes … except in the minds of people grasping for justification that somehow it’s bad to do so.
I don’t know. I didn’t get the impression from Anet that they were seeking help or guidance on this. They provided their explanation; somehow people think that’s an open door to expect that change is coming. I would like to think that if Anet wants to really solicit player feedback on this, they would take their more formal approach with CDI.
How does dragonhunter make sense? Does a Warrior not hunt dragons when he plays LS. Does an Engineer not do that? Or is the Guardian the only one who can actually kill the dragon?
How many times are people going to use this argument? It’s stupid. Anyone can hunt something but hunters have specific hunting tools for their targets. Just don’t.
What about my ranger who was both the traps and the longbow (the tools needed)?
What about it? Are you suggesting that DH doesn’t make sense because it shares a weapon and a skill category with another class? I think you’re running out of straws to grasp here. I can use that argument to suggest that EVERY class in this game doesn’t make sense RIGHT NOW.
Arrk is correct!
It is not about sharing weapon and a skill category with another class: it is about enforcing the main role of the guardian profession and and preserve their roots.
There are 5 of 6 strait lines and established weapons and skills that already do that. I mean, that’s rather silly actually … so a specialization is about reinforcing a role we already have and preserving it’s meaning? Maybe to you it is. I don’t feel (and apparently Anet) that their concepts are so limited by such a definition … thankfully.
If they keep us entertained throughout, I see no problem with it taking 12 years to defeat all the dragons.
The problem is that they are definitely not keeping me entertained… at all.
12 years of starving for content?
No thanks.
You can’t please everyone.
But Tera online can
He should go play Tera online then. The problem here isn’t the game, it’s the people who think the game should fit their exact needs.
…or maybe I should play the sequel to the original Guild Wars (if it only existed) and not this sorry excuse for a money grabbing cash cow of a MMO we call Guild Wars 2.
No, it really sounds like you should get some sense and stop purposefully expose yourself to something that you obviously can’t stand. If the game doesn’t fit you as a player, don’t throw time/money at it expecting it to change. That’s not a realistic approach.
Do you think I even have a reason to log into Gw2 any more?
Sounds like it’s something you should have never logged into if you have been starving for content for 12 years.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t stop you from posting.
I don’t know if you completely fail at reading comprehension or what, but you might want to go back and try again.
What is wrong with my reading comprehension … you don’t like the way the game has progressed, you’re mad because you invested time/money into it, assuming something that didn’t come true. You’re being sensational and despite having ‘moved on’, you’ve still managed to find this ONE thread to vent. Have I missed something?
I guess people will learn the hard way that Anet develops the game and most of the time, without the consent of players, which is not exceptional either. We have almost 3 years of GW2 to prove that, as well as decades of just general MMO experience to back that up as a reasonable approach to doing MMO development business. Carry on.
Equipping a Sigil of Earth is more Condi than the new traits have delivered. Actually, that might be a really cool Spec with 100% crit uptime on 1H weapons now.
<make note to try this when traits change>If they keep us entertained throughout, I see no problem with it taking 12 years to defeat all the dragons.
The problem is that they are definitely not keeping me entertained… at all.
12 years of starving for content?
No thanks.
You can’t please everyone.
But Tera online can
He should go play Tera online then. The problem here isn’t the game, it’s the people who think the game should fit their exact needs.
…or maybe I should play the sequel to the original Guild Wars (if it only existed) and not this sorry excuse for a money grabbing cash cow of a MMO we call Guild Wars 2.
No, it really sounds like you should get some sense and stop purposefully expose yourself to something that you obviously can’t stand. If the game doesn’t fit you as a player, don’t throw time/money at it expecting it to change. That’s not a realistic approach.
Do you think I even have a reason to log into Gw2 any more?
Sounds like it’s something you should have never logged into if you have been starving for content for 12 years.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t stop you from posting.
Not a single person as been able to provide a logical explanation for the terrible Dragon Hunter theme.
… other than Anet. That’s what matters.
If you’d stop whiteknighting for a moment, you’d realize that ANet can be wrong and they can make bad decisions. I know that may be hard to believe, but yes, it’s true. They can still make any decision they’d like, but the decisions they make are not necessarily flawless.
I don’t get how they can be wrong about something they conceptualize.
No one has shown their explanation isn’t logical at all. Simply dismissing their explanation does not make it illogical. Besides, who determines it’s logical? It’s part of a made up story that they make up. It can be whatever they want. Obviously they think it fits their story.
The dragonhunter concept is not compatible with the established GW2 setting,
Artistic license. Anet does have it and any reasonable person would expect they use it as well to develop the game as they see fit. I still question people on this argument. I don’t see DH being so far from the lore that it’s unreasonable it’s in the game. I think Valmir explained it really well. In fact, better than Anet did.
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That’s why some would delve into draconic knowledge and would devote themselves to destroying them and their minion.
So…where is the draconic knowledge and the dedication ? Will the DragonHunter have a specific story line showing its dedication ? Or more powerful abilities against dragons and their minions ?
That’s part of the lore Anet makes for the game. Do you need proof that any other class is properly aligned to their concept by having an indepth understanding of the lore as well? No, you don’t. You’re simply insisting on it in the case of DH because you don’t like the name.
This made me laugh. Are you saying that if Anet introduced class using melee weapons only without using magic at all, using primary 2h-Axe and have attributes of “Berserker” archetype like in other games and they would call it “Magician” or “Wizard” that would fit thematically? This is hilarious.
The only hilarious thing is that’s what you think I’ve said. There is no thematic ‘fit’. The theme is whatever Anet makes it. Of course, you’re being sensational and nonsensical because I don’t believe Anet’s goal is to contrast ideas like your example would suggest they do.
On the other hand, Anet has explained how DH fits thematically with Guardian. You simply choose to ignore it.
I will qoute you
Because Anet decides they may not do it. It’s THAT simple.
You don’t seem to understand that the concepts are determined by Anet.
So IF such ridiculous concept I mentioned were determined by Arenanet, then then they could implement it, right?
Once this is a concept of big game hunter, another day it’s witchhunter.
Exactly, but your sensational example doesn’t say anything about DH theme.
I don’t see why it can’t be both. Hell, Necros got THREE themes going in their Elite. Just because you believe there is some inconsistency there doesn’t make it true. Are you actually telling us that it’s a bad concept because It’s a hunter of ‘big game’ that happens to be dragons? Is that such a stretch of the imagination to you? My 5 year old gets the concept, but grown adults playing a fantasy MMO can’t get it. That’s obtuse. You’re fooling no one playing the fool here.
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Not a single person as been able to provide a logical explanation for the terrible Dragon Hunter theme.
… other than Anet. That’s what matters.
No they haven’t given a LOGICAL explanation.
No one has shown their explanation isn’t logical at all. Simply dismissing their explanation does not make it illogical. Besides, who determines it’s logical? It’s part of a made up story that they make up. It can be whatever they want. Obviously they think it fits their story.
Not a single person as been able to provide a logical explanation for the terrible Dragon Hunter theme.
… other than Anet. That’s what matters.
If they keep us entertained throughout, I see no problem with it taking 12 years to defeat all the dragons.
The problem is that they are definitely not keeping me entertained… at all.
12 years of starving for content?
No thanks.
You can’t please everyone.
But Tera online can
He should go play Tera online then. The problem here isn’t the game, it’s the people who think the game should fit their exact needs.
…or maybe I should play the sequel to the original Guild Wars (if it only existed) and not this sorry excuse for a money grabbing cash cow of a MMO we call Guild Wars 2.
No, it really sounds like you should get some sense and stop purposefully expose yourself to something that you obviously can’t stand. If the game doesn’t fit you as a player, don’t throw time/money at it expecting it to change. That’s not a realistic approach.
If they keep us entertained throughout, I see no problem with it taking 12 years to defeat all the dragons.
The problem is that they are definitely not keeping me entertained… at all.
12 years of starving for content?
No thanks.
You can’t please everyone.
But Tera online can
He should go play Tera online then. The problem here isn’t the game, it’s the people who think the game should fit their exact needs.
Wait a second…
I thought Radiance looked to be the condition options. Some of our new elite line just happen to also apply some.They tried to force guards into condi a few times since release, when they released the new grandmaster traits for example.
If the devs really want condi guard to be a real thing they need to make some serious changes.
LAWLWUT? We have never been forced into condi ever. Introducing the GM traits forced us into nothing.
Devs don’t want anyone to do anything. They will make traits available for people that want to play that style.
How does dragonhunter make sense? Does a Warrior not hunt dragons when he plays LS. Does an Engineer not do that? Or is the Guardian the only one who can actually kill the dragon?
How many times are people going to use this argument? It’s stupid. Anyone can hunt something but hunters have specific hunting tools for their targets. Just don’t.
What about my ranger who was both the traps and the longbow (the tools needed)?
What about it? Are you suggesting that DH doesn’t make sense because it shares a weapon and a skill category with another class? I think you’re running out of straws to grasp here. I can use that argument to suggest that EVERY class in this game doesn’t make sense RIGHT NOW. I advise you think before presenting your arguments about why DH is a bad name. Similarities between other classes is just as bad an argument as thematic fit.
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This made me laugh. Are you saying that if Anet introduced class using melee weapons only without using magic at all, using primary 2h-Axe and have attributes of “Berserker” archetype like in other games and they would call it “Magician” or “Wizard” that would fit thematically? This is hilarious.
The only hilarious thing is that’s what you think I’ve said. There is no thematic ‘fit’. The theme is whatever Anet makes it. Of course, you’re being sensational and nonsensical because I don’t believe Anet’s goal is to contrast ideas like your example would suggest they do.
On the other hand, Anet has explained how DH fits thematically with Guardian. You simply choose to ignore it.
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These concepts can be changed. We are talking about the ones that make sense thematically for the class.
ANET could make a Unicorntamer class and it would work because it’s their game, but it would not fit a class thematically.
What fits the class thematically is determined by Anet exactly as you describe. This is why the argument of how “dragonhunter” doesn’t fit is nonsense.
Well why can’t aWarrior do that? I understand why a Thief can’t become a Chronomancer, because they have no ties to time magic. But a Warrior or a Ranger have as much ties to dragons as a Guardian. (that is – none)
Because Anet decides they may not do it. It’s THAT simple.
You don’t seem to understand that the concepts are determined by Anet.
How does dragonhunter make sense? Does a Warrior not hunt dragons when he plays LS. Does an Engineer not do that? Or is the Guardian the only one who can actually kill the dragon?
How many times are people going to use this argument? It’s stupid. Anyone can hunt something but hunters have specific hunting tools for their targets. Just don’t.