While no one will ever get excited about shield anything, the way this trait is designed is actually quite good; 3 similar effects for 3 completely different situations. It falls short on execution because shield sucks, not because the traits are necessarily bad.
I agree no dev will read this because it’s a wall of text with no ideas or suggestions, making assumptions about how the game will work without having even experienced it. Fun times. I love when new balance patches come out. I remember when Guardians were ‘ruined’ because of the change to Vigorous Precision a few years back. Same here.
I hope Anet keep ‘ruining’ Guardian class because they are doing a horrible job at it.
None of this QQ is new and the reasons for it are still silly. In a game where PVE is balanced around Green/Yellow gear, it’s frankly quite dumb to complain that the gear two levels above THAT balancing point is getting a buff. Carry on.
Based on how the changes are looking for the specs, I would wager that it’s actually the dev’s intention to spread the relative trait strengths around. Looks like it will work. Depending on the weapons I want to use, some of the lines are looking like tradeoffs instead of meta now. Might encourage a more dynamic play to make the most effective players benefit from their approach.
Speed sigils are amazing for leveling, and not just Guardian. The best part is that the kills stack your speed buff in duration. Once you kill a few things, you have to really waste a lot of time to lose it. I do not advise you equip a staff just for the speed buff. IMO, that’s a ridiculous approach to get speed on a Guardian unless you like micromanaging your movement.
Unless they’re planted beforehand out of sight, it’s not going to matter if they’re invisible.
BINGO! That’s usually how a trap works and I’m betting that’s the intention. Even if it is planted at someone’s feet and someone knows it, traps can still be used smartly to control area.
Let’s be honest … if something as insignificant as a few weapons being not viable is keeping you away from playing the game, then there isn’t much that will keep you playing if you come back. If a butterfly farts, you will leave.
What happens to ele’s is not relevant to Guards. You think we got the short end of the stick with spec upgrades? I beg to differ. The consolidation only makes our choices better.
So you’re suggesting we make Guardian harder because we want to see the average nub suck at PVP on Guardian and the best struggle just a little more. OK, got it now; your idea of PVP on Guard is to move it in a direction where it’s possible for only the best players and pigeonhole them even more into a completely predictable build. #badidea
Their is no need; I’m sure Anet is very conscious of their content release schedule and there isn’t anything compelling about reminding them of release dates for things. As a matter of fact …
… you have to recognize that the business model of the game is actually centered around players like you come and go on your own timetable; that’s why this game works for people. There isn’t much content you can ‘miss’ and if you do, there is still access to it. There is no reason for Anet to ensure a constant stream of new content because the business model isn’t critical to people playing the game with a constant frequency. Working as designed and intended.
Game is not stagnant just because you feel you’ve accomplished everything you want to do.
So…in short you are fine with 4-5 months of no new static content, with a possibility of 5-6 more months with no new static content before the expansion is released?
Drinking the cool aid much?
You’re generalization of my post is laughable and shows a genuine unwillingness to listen and learn. I transcend sensational, nonsense statements like the one you present because they aren’t relevant. I recognize how this game is structured and why it works as a result of the frequency and volume of the content that is released; THAT is relevant. Your thread demonstrates a lack of understanding of what makes this game sustainable as well as the market it appeals to.
Their is no need; I’m sure Anet is very conscious of their content release schedule and there isn’t anything compelling about reminding them of release dates for things. As a matter of fact …
… you have to recognize that the business model of the game is actually centered around players like you come and go on your own timetable; that’s why this game works for people. There isn’t much content you can ‘miss’ and if you do, there is still access to it. There is no reason for Anet to ensure a constant stream of new content because the business model isn’t critical to people playing the game with a constant frequency. Working as designed and intended.
Game is not stagnant just because you feel you’ve accomplished everything you want to do.
It’s not the random steal that’s an issue. It’s the idea that thieves can’t steal a skill Guardians don’t possess. I actually believe that what makes the most sense is for thieves to steal skills (random or not) that will give them maximum effectiveness against the profs they steal from, even if those professions don’t have those skills.
Translation: " I died against the glass that I counter!!"
You’re missing the point. A thief should not be able to steal an ability that we don’t even have.
Think it’s plausible, in fact necessary, otherwise Theives could be stealing a whole bunch of stuff they couldn’t use effectively and that would be completely stupid. I don’t actually think if they steal something the base profession doesn’t have matters anyways; it’s an academic argument. Thieves steal random stuff from mobs all the time. No reason it can’t work that way on non-NPCs.
Maybe I’m slow but I missed the joke and think the ‘Draug" idea was pretty clever (didn’t Tolkien have some references to dragons as Draug?); at least more clever than the simplistic Dragon version we get from Anet.
That’s nice but if you totally forget/dismiss people who would like to have harder content, you will end up with tons of casuals. Casuals will get to 80, then nicely leave (maybe craft some shinies, maybe not even that).
If for nothing else, the “hard core” crowd is good for population. But no worries, apparently instances are not on the table and we can all rejoice in zerg wars 2.
I think your assessment of ‘casuals’ is rather general and that makes your scenario very unlikely. While my experience isn’t broad enough, the ‘casual’ people I know fit this game’s model really well because:
1) They care less about how long it takes to do something, so they don’t just ‘leave’ once they have leveled to 80
2) Their goals tend to be more superficial, so they continually move to the next ‘thing’ to do. This happens to be alot of things for a casual player.
Not only do I have my own experience to guide me, we have the fact that the game persists for much longer than it would take a casual player to reach level 80 as well. Therefore, you’re missing something in the way you think about how casuals interact in this game and what that impact is on the game’s longevity.
“Since GW2 has already driven off the folks who enjoy instances, let’s not drive away the casual crowd in an attempt to get them back.”
Am I understanding correctly? I’ll accept that as a valid argument against adding instanced content over the whole ‘exclusive rewards’ thing any day, because for years I’ve been watching those people leave with no intention of ever returning.
I think that’s exactly the way things have transpired. How long are people willing to hold out for content that they can get elsewhere? The offerings for that kind of content are numerous. There is no reason for Anet to even bother to try entering it. Even if Anet did, they would probably have to add a whole expansion’s volume of content to appease and cater to that crowd. Even then, how many of the people that did move on would come back and stay? Not to mention how it (not if) affects current players. I don’t think it’s a good business move.
The affect that hard content has on casual players isn’t non-existence. It’s a palpable thing. It HAS an effect.
Half this thread is people saying that other people are selfish because they’re trying to stop something that has NO EFFECT on them. That’s simply not the case.
So IF this content is going to be introduced it comes with a risk. You might believe that risk isn’t a large risk and it MIGHT not be. But you can’t say it doesn’t affect those people who aren’t interested in it, because it does.
So it has to be handled very carefully.
My guess is, if Anet puts enough hard stuff in to satisfy the hard core crowd, they’re going to lose at least some of the casual crowd. Again the risk is there.
It’s easy to tell a company to take the risk because you want something…because it’s not your money that’s going to go if that risk doesn’t pay off.
I’m going to back this up because it’s a very real thing that people ignore; the business aspect of MMO gaming is something that very few players consider when they request changes. There is a finite pool of resources. Guaranteed that anything that gets developed must get past the muster of the business guys.
Assuming this game doesn’t have a significant potion of people that don’t like hard instanced content … why would business guys approve of adding more of it? Of course we don’t have those numbers but I think it’s obvious from the lack of hard, instanced content that the population doesn’t support adding more of it.
Next argument? Why not add it to get those players into the game? Again, because there are finite resources. Do you add that and not do something else that impacts the present population loyal to the game that may consider that an affront to them? There are very plausible explanations for these things.
I don’t get it. How do you know if there is or there isn’t support for more instanced hard content if there is only so little of it around? How do the devs know if the playerbase will like more hard instanced content if there hasn’t been any new of it to play?
I don’t. That why I said ASSUMING this game doesn’t have a significant potion of people that don’t like hard instanced content …
You’re question is asking me if I think that’s a reasonable assumption. I do for as few reasons.
1. I believe this game would have tanked a year ago if most of the people playing it desired hard instanced content because as we know, it doesn’t really have much.
2. There are signs of the market Anet want to target with this game based on changes it’s gone through and some of it’s established concepts. I don’t believe that market is primarily made of the people who desire hard, instanced content.
3. I believe Anet is smart enough to direct their new offerings (LS, etc…) at the players that this game appeals to. HoT will definitely put to rest what Anet believes players of this game want. If we don’t get hard instanced content (team size), then I think you can pretty much forget about it ever happening to any degree that will satisfy players looking mainly for that kind of content.
I would say that it’s because there is nothing you can’t do once your max level anyways, so why bother doing it when your not level 80? I to will rush to 80, outfit the hell out of my characters and then go back, oneshotting to complete low level areas, etc..
The affect that hard content has on casual players isn’t non-existence. It’s a palpable thing. It HAS an effect.
Half this thread is people saying that other people are selfish because they’re trying to stop something that has NO EFFECT on them. That’s simply not the case.
So IF this content is going to be introduced it comes with a risk. You might believe that risk isn’t a large risk and it MIGHT not be. But you can’t say it doesn’t affect those people who aren’t interested in it, because it does.
So it has to be handled very carefully.
My guess is, if Anet puts enough hard stuff in to satisfy the hard core crowd, they’re going to lose at least some of the casual crowd. Again the risk is there.
It’s easy to tell a company to take the risk because you want something…because it’s not your money that’s going to go if that risk doesn’t pay off.
I’m going to back this up because it’s a very real thing that people ignore; the business aspect of MMO gaming is something that very few players consider when they request changes. There is a finite pool of resources. Guaranteed that anything that gets developed must get past the muster of the business guys.
Assuming this game doesn’t have a significant potion of people that don’t like hard instanced content … why would business guys approve of adding more of it? Of course we don’t have those numbers but I think it’s obvious from the lack of hard, instanced content that the population doesn’t support adding more of it.
Next argument? Why not add it to get those players into the game? Again, because there are finite resources. Do you add that and not do something else that impacts the present population loyal to the game that may consider that an affront to them? There are very plausible explanations for these things.
Being overpowered at healing is probably worth a whole lot of nothing until we understand what the ‘challenging content’ of HoT will be. Even then, I suspect it will move from a whole lot of nothing to a little less than a whole lot.
So, i crafted the Foefire’s Essence and i’m using now for 4 days i think.
But i’m starting to regret it.
I wanted because of the look, because i wanted my character to use something expensive and hard to get and because i wanted people to look and comment and say: “hey, nice GS!” “wow, that is an amazing GS, can i see it? ”
But no, people just don’t give a kitten , but if i was wearing a Sunrise ( i wouldn’t go for Twilight because it doesn’t fit for my guardian [personal thing] ), things would be different.
I think it’s because the ascalonian GS and Cobalt are kinda similar you know, one is blue with a ghost fog/flame and the other one has a very well done (imo) blue flame effect and then people kinda don’t see anything amazing or nice about the Foefire.
Now i feel like i just wasted time and i should have put the GS to sell for 470g.
argh, i hate myself.
:(
Less people would be as impressed by your Sunrise as you think. Don’t do things because of what other people will think; do things because of what YOU will think of them.
I am not sure that New Criticism applies here fully since DH is an addition to an exisiting system and not a creation of its own. As in many posts before I do understand where you coming from and that you are unshakable in your opnion.
BUT your opinion derives from your argument that guardians can not make any “reliable” use from
1) cripple damage modifiers outside of LB … and
2) knock backs
3) Defenders Dogma (useless in your eyes)
4) the (indeed questionable) minor trait pure of sight
5) traps
6) all other traits are stupid
I stil think you are too hung up on 4+5 to see the potential od DH and come on too strong to anyone suggesting otherwise.
Does DH add to other exisiting builds better then the exisiting traitlines? I dont think so either. Simply because of the strength of Valor and Virtues
Does it create new ones even without LB? Definitely Yes
Are they viable? too soon to tell
First of all, thank you for taking the time to address my actual argument. I’m rather tired of having to repeat myself. :/
But anyway, perhaps I am coming on a bit strongly, but in my defense, I was basically hinging my decision to keep Guardian as my main on how the new spec would turn out, and this is pretty far from what I was hoping for. Since I’ve been pretty consistently disappointed with the directions they’re taking the class, I figure I’ll give the Revenant a try. It looks a bit more up my alley.
It looks like to me that it was designed with the mindset that someone would want to just camp the longbow and maintain distance, despite the fact that there’s nothing about the guardian in its current iteration that works in this fashion. The introduction of another ranged weapon doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a primarily melee-oriented class, and swapping to your melee weapon is going to render half of the DH’s benefits useless. The traits feel almost exclusively centered around the new stuff. Why didn’t they give us anything that boosts the potential of any of our existing setups?
Probably because we have a number of existing setups that are already quite good. There is lalso little in the other 5 lines to enhance the use of the LB and if you want to use LB, you have to take DH. From those points, I think how the DH spec is designed is quite reasonable. Perhaps Anet may consider swapping something like Pure of Light for something in a different line to advantage other weapons in DH but I’m not sure that’s inline with their intention.
You lose some effectiveness moving away from LB if you spec DH in the same way if you currently spec into Radiance for 1H stuffs and swap to a GS. It’s about having reasonable tradeoffs. I don’t see anything in DH that’s unreasonable in terms of giving up something for having a strong something else.
If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.
This has to be the single most ridiculous statement in the entire thread… so someone w/ a different opinion about what’s occurring (in any situation – right or wrong), has nothing to add to said discussion….
wow.
You’ve outdone yourself this time.
That statement being ridiculous has more to do with your comprehension than anything else. I said nothing about someone having a different opinion not adding to a discussion.
They can do whatever the kitten they want with their game, but if players think that they’re making stupid decisions, then they have every right to say so. I don’t care what their reasoning is, and I don’t care what your reasoning is.
You feel Anet’s decisions are stupid. That’s an immediate non-starter for any discussion because that’s ignoring the fact that it’s going to be part of the game. No one is discouraging you or anyone else from voicing your opinion but don’t get all bent out of shape if other people accuse you of exactly the thing you’re doing to Anet … making nonsense comments, decisions and assessments. If anyone has nothing to add to a discussion, it’s the guy that thinks what Anet does is completely wrong.
You think Anet’s intention for the design and purpose of the elite spec is irrelevant. That’s an interesting perspective … I would say it’s the only relevant intention seeing as they are the ones that make the game and all that.
I get you don’t like it, but that doesn’t make what Anet wants the class to be irrelevant. It’s going to be whatever they want it to be and that is as relevant as something can get. You can be critical and offer your ideas of what you think is wrong without degrading your own statements with ridiculous comments that Anet’s intentions are not relevant to the game. Of course they are.
No, I’m shooting it down because it’s not a good thing for the game to balance one class against another while ignoring all the others.
The OP mentioned nothing of balancing the game around 1v1s. Try harder to be argumentative please.
I don’t need to try at all …. the OP directly stated that Guardians need to be ‘toned down’ because Thieves struggle against them. That’s what you refer to as mentioning ‘nothing about balancing around 1 vs. 1? Sure, let’s go with imaginations in overdrive then as the reasoning.
The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.
Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.
People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.
I can easily see the Chronomancer or the Reaper being incorporated into current Mesmer and Necro builds, even without the shield and GS. I can’t see a single reason (outside of maybe PvE hero damage modifiers) to take DH if you don’t plan on using the bow. It’s pretty sad that, being a Guardian main who has hardly touched Necro, I can still come up with more effective build possibilities for the Reaper than I can for the DH.
How other classes work isn’t a very compelling argument to how you think Guard Elite should work. Again, you don’t know if Anet’s ntention was to provide non-LB builds with tools using DH and if it was, if those non-LB builds would be optimal. I’m willing to bet that Anet didn’t intend it all because our current builds are quite effective. It stands to reason that there is no need to provide a whole bunch of awesome, non-LB stuff in the DH spec because of that.
As far as I’m concerned, the new meta depends on much more than just one profession’s new toolset. Guards didn’t have many options; we have a few themes with variations. The DH line just adds another theme. The argument if it’s optimal or if it works well with other weapons seems really irrelevant; anyone wanting to play the new theme is obviously going to gravitate towards the LB and the DH line. There are going to be places where this approach will be good and others where it’s not.
The idea though is that we shouldn’t have to take the bow in order to make use of the new spec.
Is that really the idea? You already don’t have to take bow to make use of the new spec. The question is if the new spec can be optimal for anything BUT the LB and even then, I don’t believe we have been told anything to make us think it should be.
People need to stop projecting what they THINK things should be like and look at what they really will be.
Does anyone here actually think it’s possible to balance every class against every other? If you do, you’re not very experienced or reasonable.
By this logic, you should probably just quit trying in life, because you’ll never be perfect.
… Right?
I just realize the futility of trying to balance vs. one profession while ignoring the impact vs. all others. It’s pretty silly actually, along with your analogy.
Guardian too strong vs. thief? OK, there are professions that eat Guards for breakfast. Tell me where the balancing point is here if a change is made to make Guards less strong on thief? There isn’t because it can’t and it shouldn’t. What does anyone actually want to achieve when they say one class is strong vs. another? That’s just lacking the oversight of a bigger picture here. This game isn’t designed to 1 vs. 1 PVP encounters so it’s really not relevant if that premise of this thread is even true.
I don’t think we should have nemesis classes but like I’ve already said, anyone that thinks that all professions are going to balance equally against every other is unrealistic and inexperienced. That’s not saying it can’t be better but what does better mean? Most people do not take into account that this is a complex interaction.
Nobody is questioning whether perfect balance can be achieved. Saying “hey, it can’t be perfect” is a terrible excuse for not even trying to improve it at all.
That’s true. I never suggested perfection so I don’t get why you’re grinding on me here. I’m questioning what the purpose of ‘improving’ the situation would be in the Guardian/Thief matchup and if people gave even a fleeting thought to the fact that it would change other aspects of Guardian PVP where they may actually be deficient.
Personally am thinking WHY DID THEY NAME IT DRAGIONHUNTER IF IT ONLY HAS ONE SKILL THAT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH DRAGONS. (Dragon Maw, the elite skill)
Probably because names of skills don’t dictate the name of the profession?
I’m convinced Anet has put as much thought into considering the name changes as people have put into suggesting alternative names. Take that for what it’s worth.
Does anyone here actually think it’s possible to balance every class against every other? If you do, you’re not very experienced or reasonable.
By this logic, you should probably just quit trying in life, because you’ll never be perfect.
… Right?
I just realize the futility of trying to balance vs. one profession while ignoring the impact vs. all others. It’s pretty silly actually, along with your analogy.
Guardian too strong vs. thief? OK, there are professions that eat Guards for breakfast. Tell me where the balancing point is here if a change is made to make Guards less strong on thief? There isn’t because it can’t and it shouldn’t. What does anyone actually want to achieve when they say one class is strong vs. another? That’s just lacking the oversight of a bigger picture here. This game isn’t designed to 1 vs. 1 PVP encounters so it’s really not relevant if that premise of this thread is even true.
I don’t think we should have nemesis classes but like I’ve already said, anyone that thinks that all professions are going to balance equally against every other is unrealistic and inexperienced. That’s not saying it can’t be better but what does better mean? Most people do not take into account that this is a complex interaction.
It’s not going to be all that good if you’re in the front line fighting. It’s strong but it’s harder to use. That’s the balance. Seems inline with the ranged perspective of DH elite. I don’t imagine it should change at all though I don’t feel that under DH, the Virtues are better. They are just different.
I think Anet is doing this to dumb things down.
[…]
It almost makes it too easy to plan traits. You don’t need to think too hard to decide what points go anywhere. Just choose three lines.
So having to find some awkward combination of traits to get another 5% damage increase was deep and meaningful?
Is it? I didn’t say or imply it was deep and meaningful. I’m just responding to the OP’s concerns because I am also concerned. See my sig … how dumbed down do you think this game should be? At some point our choices become trivial. It’s already happened with gear, NPE was changed to be trivial and now it’s starting to happen with traits.
I think Anet is doing this to dumb things down. It seems to be a persistent approach. If it’s easier, it continues to appeal to lower common denominator.
It almost makes it too easy to plan traits. You don’t need to think too hard to decide what points go anywhere. Just choose three lines. It’s not only a trend with GW2. Bioware ruined SWTOR spec system the same way.
One bow and a pair of gloves are not that hard to change. They could just add those to the cash shop to not waste development time, and make a nice profit too.
It’s pretty easy to say that from your armchair. You have no clue what would need to change and how much work it would be. It would still take development time, regardless of where it ended up in the game.
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