Guild Wars 2

Choppy.4183:

On the sigils, FH allows the second set to proc 5s sooner once during the whole of combat. That’s not a powerful advantage, it’s a footnote.

Without FH, to make full use of one on swap sigil, you need to have it in both weapon sets. With FH you can have it on only one weapon and still proc it every 10 sec.

Anyway, as Choppy said, it would make more sense to make adjustments to things that are specific to some build, if that build is too strong, than force every build to pick discipline line just because FH is there, even if that trait line doesn’t fit the theme of the build.

I don’t even agree with the changes proposed in this thread. But comparing warrior to other classes or saying that a change is not needed because it is a buff to warriors are weak arguments. Instead, how about you tell why the reasons the OP provided aren’t good enough, and then the conversation can finally move forward, instead of you arguing about who has more “credibility”.

Choppy.4183:

I suppose one way to avoid getting mocked is entering into an actual conversation with people, rather than jumping into the middle of one saying, “you’re all a bunch of greedy morons”. But that might be a little too socially advanced for you to understand, so I guess it’s mockery for you. XD

Ah, if people would only understand that. The fact that people are having a discussion already points at their willingness to listen to different opinions… as long as they are backed by something more than “I played x class for y hours, therefore I must be right”.

Defense line is good the way it is.

Nice argument, brah.

It doesn’t matter how we get the adrenaline, the adrenaline gain traits will still have to be put somewhere (and that somewhere will probably be the discipline tree), and we will still take them as long as the builds are so adrenaline hungry.

A lot of these changes are just plain buffs to things that don’t need it (OH mace, rending strikes), while others try to fix underused weapons but don’t quite hit the mark (rifle, OH axe).

I’ll add my own thoughts on rifle here:
Initially, it wasn’t clear what the purpose of that weapon is. It had bleeds, vulnerability, high damage skills… but then they removed the bleed and buffed vulnerability, making it clear it is intended to be a low dps weapon with strong burst. The problem is that the burst is too easy to avoid in PvP, and the dps is way too low for PvE.
Making the burst easier to land without adding some drawback will make it completely btoken in PvP, it will have no counterplay. So, what can be done to balance it?
Making it require additional buildup that can be countered:
Fierce Shot can be a low damage attack that applies long lasting vulnerability that will stack up to very large amounts if left unchecked. Then another attack (lets say Brutal Shot) will have increasing base damage depending on amount of vulnerability stacks on the target (in addition to vuln’s normal effect).

Shoutbow is probably the best example of a build that goes into discipline tree only for FH. It doesn’t need WS at all, and while it benefits from extra adrenaline from Versatile Rage, picking Arms tree would be much better.
But Shoutbow is a special case, it uses less adrenaline than other builds while having an extra way of generating it. It is hard to imagine a build with axe, rifle, mace, hammer or longbow that doesn’t use Burst Mastery (or at least VR).

You disagree that it should be made baseline because it is a “must have”, and say it should be baseline because it is hard to balance around it. But it is hard to balance because it is a must have :>

I feel that CI will still be a problem. In CI’s case, I think removal will be the best option. Then the condition cleansing it provides could be added to various other traits/skills, so you would still be able to get as much condi removal, but it wouldn’t come in one big chunk. As it is now, there is simply no reason not to take it.

Sebrent.3625:

For Option A, I said this before, but you could also accomplish that diversity by providing some synergy of three non-Discipline traitlines that is so good that it warrants taking those three instead of Fast Hands.

That is another idea that seems to be good at first glance, but might end up being terrible. If it works only if you take all 3 parts, it will have to be really good for people to go for it, locking warriors into specific trait lines once again. At best it will be an equally good alternative to FH builds, opening up one more possible build, at worst it will be too OP to consider anything else.

When I said viable I meant viable. In case of PvP, if something is not optimal, it is most likely not viable either.

Whether it’s PvP or PvE, as long as Fast Hands trait exists, warrior will use it in pretty much every build. So, yes, something has to be done about it.
I see 3 options:
A. Buff other trait lines so we would pick them over FH.
B. Remove FH completely.
C. Make FH baseline.

The first option sounds perfect, right? We get to keep FH and have build diversity…
Well, nope. Buffing one trait line won’t be enough. There will have to be at least 3 of them that you would want to take over FH (and FH is OP, right?). Imagine the power creep.

The second option isn’t much better. Removing FH will be another unneeded nerf to warriors in PvE and will put them at the bottom of the food chain in PvP. For warrior to be viable without FH they will have to do a massive rework of the whole profession, and there is no guarantee it will end up being good. Most likely it will be a broken mess that will take ages to balance properly.

And finally, making FH baseline, will also cause a power creep, but not as bad the 1st option. It will open up some new builds, and in case any of them turn out to be too strong, they can always be nerfed down to acceptable level (allowing Anet to continue with their favorite pastime of nerfing warriors).

Decided to change the armor after the wardrobe patch.. so here is the result:

Pop endure pain when you are at half health (lower is risky), then defiant stance when it is over. Should give enough time to kill the ooze.

What for? To show how big the gap is?

Larynx.2453:

Ozzrel.9825:

Verrix.6902:

that includes the rifle.

Anything is better than rifle. It does less damage than any other weapon (including longbow), even on single target.

Can give you actual numbers for why Longbow is better than Rifle single target?

With rifle, over 30 sec, you can use:
2 brutal shots (0.5)
3 volleys (3)
20 bleeding shot (0.4)
1 fully charged kill shot (3.25)
so if you add up the coefficients it will make 21.25 total

With longbow:
18 dual shots (0.66)
5 fans of fire (1.2)
3 arcing arrows (2)
for a total of 23.88

Rifle has a slightly higher weapon damage, but it isn’t enough to make up for the difference.

Verrix.6902:

that includes the rifle.

Anything is better than rifle. It does less damage than any other weapon (including longbow), even on single target.

Wethospu.6437:

Defiant Stance

Is there a type of damage that it doesn’t stop?

Longbow, and have some condition removal. Everything else doesn’t matter, it isn’t a dps race.

Warlord.9074:

while ignoring bugs that hurt us.

They still do that. They only fixed the signet bug and some tooltips.

You mean… the signet bug?

Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.

Dhampyr.2104:

Ozzrel.9825:

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

Umwhut? If the server was second in it’s first matchup, it doesn’t GO to T2. It stays in T1, and the server that took 3rd moves down to T2.

Do you even play this game?

In the 2nd match-up, T1 had servers with 5 points and T2 had server with 3 points. From 3rd match-up on, the 2nd server in T1 stays in T1.

Spiky.8403:

@Dhampyr: another proof Anet has no idea what is good for WvW tournament and even dare to call it improvement.

You mean, another proof that people have no clue about what they are talking.
If a server was 2nd in its 1st match-up, it has to either win the next one (in T2) or it doesn’t deserve the 2nd place.

tedfoo.8109:

So far, I have been running GS in the #1 slot, since I find it just ever so slightly better DPS-wise than Axe+x.

Even now axe+mace is a better option than GS, since GS 1 does pathetic damage.
As for after the patch.. axe+mace might actually outdps the axe+mace/GS build.

Assuming a 2600 armor target:
build 1:
2120/2600*0.45+2120/2600*0.55*2.1=1.3
with fury and 25 might: 2.1
build 2:
2090/2600*0.4+2090/2600*0.6*2.05=1.31
with fury and 25 might: 2.098

Wanted to do that math… but you provided attack instead of power, which is a meaningless number.

alchemyst.2165:

hammer CC

alchemyst.2165:

insane amounts of mobility.

The 10 weapon set 30/30/30/30/30 warrior strikes again.

Condi build, not much to see in the combat log…

It won’t be used for one simple reason: delayed damage.
All condition builds have a small buildup time at the start of the fight during which they do very low dps, and while it isn’t very noticeable on bosses, it will slow down killing trash considerably.

Because staying alive is still hard.

SoliSnake.9457:

the only important thing you lose is 10% on bleeding and vulne on crit but al the party got 150 power buff

Only

The way the profession is designed pushes players towards the most ineffective playstyle. A new player that doesn’t know the game mechanic very well will not understand why using a longbow in group content is a bad idea.
When doing solo content while leveling, bearbow builds seem natural. You have the pet take hits for you, while you stand at safe range. This leads to another problem, you never learn how to dodge.
Another problem is controlling the pet. If the ranger never had to do it before, you can’t expect him to know to do it now.

The problem is not with this specific encounter. It is not the lack of viable ranger build. It is the fact that the game fails to teach the players to play that profession properly.

Nah, he just doesn’t know the difference between “dps” and “the biggest number that pops on screen”.

You don’t want to use a greatsword in the 1st build.

Kagamiku.9731:

To define “optimal” would be “the best result obtainable under specific conditions.” The conditions being, “player skill.”

But if that player plays the berserker build, his skill might eventually raise to the required level. If you play with a handicap, you will never actually learn.
I’m sure that most players can play well enough, they just don’t want to go through the learning curve.

Longbow, for both single and multi target situations, and even then only if there is no way you can melee.

vincecontix.1264:

Op the build looks good on paper but if you want to get peoples attention maybe get some video footage of the build in action.

Ozzrel.9825:

The thread is over a year old

Caedmon.6798:

Because condi’s are overpowered as they are.You do not want to get 100 stacks of torment,poison,bleeding…

If there are enough people to apply 100 stacks of bleeding, there is no reason why you shouldn’t die. Removing the cap will change nothing in terms of PvP, you can’t survive 25 stacks anyway, unless you remove the instantly.

The thread is over a year old, don’t even try to make any sense of it. You are better off finding a more recent build.

Troll.4237:

Ozzrel.9825:

Not going to work unless people start getting banned for making whine threads… too bad that is not going to happen.

Another stupid warrior making a stupid comment, how surprising.

Well, tell me Mr. Smart Guy, why should you be allowed to spam the warrior forums with multiple threads about the exact same thing? One would be more than enough, I shouldn’t have to wade through tons of that crap every time I come to these forums.

Power builds would do more damage than condi builds even if there was no cap.
Also, condi builds have another problem, which is the time required to stack up the bleeds. Conditions are useless when stuff dies in 10 seconds.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Azure.8670:

you wake up from a long night of sleeping and farting to log on and see your main Warrior that youve put hundreds if not thousands of hours into is now a Ranger.

What do you do

What happens when you wake from a long night of sleeping and farting to log in and discover that a ranger greatsword has passive evades on auto, a big hit, a long range throw, a block and gap closer and your great sword has a 3 second self root, a gap closer that is very fickle with over shooting, a whirl attack that fires you off, through and away from your enemy and has no blocks? The solution..you take that rangers longbow and use it better than they do. You then give thief their shortbow where they can trick shot, AoE, AoE detonate, evade and teleport. Ranger should have never stolen the all round better weapon skill set on greatsword and warrior would not have stolen the better longbow weapon set.

I sure wouldn’t want the ranger GS skills. The damage they do (just like any other ranger weapon) is pathetic.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

There is that 1 warrior trait that reduces the amount of adrenaline you use.

It reduces the amount spent, not the amount required.

Zaoda.1653:

Yeah I recently made a warrior after hearing about the 30k+ health and 500 (or so) health regen per second.

Just so we don’t confuse anyone, it is 50k health and 800 hps.

Not going to work unless people start getting banned for making whine threads… too bad that is not going to happen.

spoj.9672:

I can assure you nikes math is fine. And you should trust his advice on building warrior. Not that my word means anything. :P

I’m not saying it is bad, I’m just saying I want to see it. The whole thing (traits, vulnerability stacks…), not just the interaction between power/precision/crit damage (which I’m already familiar with).

In the end it depends on how good the uptime on the might stacks is. You know what groups you run with, so you should know how often you have 25 stacks of might.

I’ve yet to see any real math that shows that precision is better than power. People overvalue these last few % of crit they need to reach the cap, when it isn’t worth sacrificing the power.

Got him to 50% solo… then some especially gifted individual brought the other boss to me. Would be much easier with a small group that knows what to do

Killing it on one server is not enough, Deso kill him on 2.