Guild Wars 2

Tortun.5946:

To be fair, at least you can nick the golem and waypoint it away

This week is the first week I’ve actively seen supply griefing to the point of 10 rams being built round a supply depot and upgrades being ordered during a siege. If you can’t buy siege equipment when a place is being attacked then why on earth should you still be allowed to buy upgrades that could decimate precious supply?

Only way to combat it, is always carry supply and keep those supply routes open and hope they don’t keep doing it.

The following didn’t took place during a siege:
I think I was present at that time and place, and as far as I remember people were just totally fooling around with siege, being morons for the lols of it, because a big golem army was supposed to be build and everyone was being totally silly. Fooling people into building rams and stuff and generally having fun
The problem is…. when I returned to said spot, pugs were building all the rams… probably just because of sillyness also, but when someone sees this place afterwards, it must have been like seeing a spy supply drain, which it wasn’t.

Devs should really implement a function to destroy unwanted siege to get supplies back, but on the other hand, spies would then abuse this mechanic.
I remember ANet saying that WvW would never be fair…. so there.

Urrelles.4018:

Joshua.9346:

I’m making this decision based on the balance design philosophy going forward.

So basically versatility is both their “thing”, except that ANet recognizes that Engi’s sacrifice damage for versatility whereas Ele’s have phenomenal AoE damage. So are they using the higher skill ceiling for Eles as a legit reasoning for making Engineers an inferior class??

From what I see personally playing both classes.

ENGINEER is lower overall damage.
Their kits allow them to adapt to a situation. example: range enemies? Use your guns. Group of enemies? Use a flamethrower. Melee enemies? Use bombs.

Also the Engy is kinda that hybrid class that does not truly master anything. You can build them anyway you want but you wont be Godlike in anything.

ELEMENTALIST is higher damage but horrible defense.
They adopt much differently. They are designed to constantly switch attunements depending on the needs of the team. Example: Need healing? Swap to water. Need defense and condition damage? Swap to earth. Speed and crowd control? Swap to air.

Typically you will excel in 2 attunements but in the end you must use them all and constantly switch playstyles in combat.

the limitations of Elementalist are in the weapon choices. Staffs are medium dmg and long ranged with lots of ground targeting. scepters and Focus are single target. daggers are close range nuke. Once you choose that weapon, you are stuck in that combat style. That is where the Engy is better; they can change their combat style completely. An Elementalist cannot. They can only change the attributes of their combat style.

Well, as an Engineer once you choose spec, gear, nourishment, which abilities to equip and combat starts, you’re locked into a style as well. And there were many situations in which I regret I had made that particular choice of style.
Surely, we have to pay the price for our amazing versatility… doh. :P

Of course before battle you can spec or equip abilities that are completely different, but every profession can do that.

rogerwilko.6895:

how do you counter a BS thief with elixir s & drop on cooldown ?

got 5k steal / 5k C&d /9k bs / 8k hs then normal melee and dead. under 2s, with nothing else that I could do.

Since you didn’t give more specific information about the fight, let me answer a bit on the general side.
It is a gamble if you have cooldowns spent. You could try and count seconds when he/she/it goes into stealth then dodge, and you might be lucky to avoid his opener and maybe some CDs will be available after that.
Only thing I can recommend is use LoS (this rules as Engi to be honest; water is your friend as well) and if available throw Elixir S for a lucky invisibility proc.
If nothing is available (i.e. all CDs spent and no LoS) then there are three possibilities:
- you didn’t plan ahead good enough (don’t run into fights with CDs, no LoS to (ab)use), got baited or mindlessly blew all your CDs in a few seconds, otherwise known as ‘pants down’ situation. Most professions, if they are not morons, can take you down then -> your own fault -> learn the lesson
- ‘pants down’ situation, because you got CCd/jumped while strategically retreating (nothing you can do about it) -> not your fault (one could argue you should have seen it coming and didn’t retreat soon enough though, then it would have been your own fault)
- bad luck (our beloved *cough versatility *cough didn’t proc in your favour) -> not your fault

Always remember to strategically retreat in a timely fashion. For that, you have to assess the situation correctly (chance (culling) may be involved in this of course, which could lead to bad luck).
Always be aware of your surroundings.

This shouldn’t come across as lecturing, but I figured a few thoughts might be better than the troglodytic L2P comment.

BreadMan.2645:

Alright so say I use my rifle to get 25 kills(have superior bloodlust on it) then I had 2 sigil of accuracy on both my pistols. Take out my pistols, 250 power still there. Do the sigil of accuracys stack? And then could I take out my shield and get a buff from that that stacks?

rubs chin

See yer olde reddit thread:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10ilke/how_sigils_work/

Amos.8760:

Is it just me, or does the link not work? I even tried copying and pasting…

Engi link was nerfed due to being too funny.

Seriously though: The link works for me.

Charliengine, check Maskagandas videos and build for some hints on how to stomp those classes:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/The-Spree-WvW-pistols-and-pots-movie

Now we actually left BT, a big up to everyone fighting alongside and against us!
I personally had loads of fun, which wouldn’t have been possible without you.

I don’t know if you will read this, Xaoc guys, but thanks to everyone who worked hard to get this up to T1.
MAxs and everyone else in Xaoc, BT owes you big time

Special love goes out to everyone in [KAZ] of course, whose style and attitude I love. Hope to meet you again!
xoxo

Have fun and good luck everybody!

Penguin.5197:

I would like to see an elite skill for engies where if an engineer does it by himself, he just summons a small mechanical minion. If five engineers are around though…those minions combine!

It would help in defining the role of the engineer.. being able to summon kitten stuff like no other class can do!

Engineers! Assemble!

Engi is the profession for people who like challenges… who like to have it difficult, who think something is there and want to dig it up… explore problems to find possibly solutions.
Unfortunately all we dig up is bugs and non intended game mechanics (and 1-2 viable builds) that are either breaking that focus of adjusted traits or that feature certain elements, which then get promptly nerfed.
It might be there is nothing to dig up, unfortunately.

Thansk for the fun videos.
I especially loved to see lightning discharge bounce back and forth between two enemies.
Edit: Or even between some puny mobs (trying to reach them and half way deciding “Nah, lets hit that player again instead”) and your one enemy. Ouch. ^^

Penguin.5197:

Clip.6845:

You’re giving terrible advice in general actually, like the slick shoes. Engineers run towards you with that skill, not away.

I don’t know about other engineers but running toward people with slick shoes on doesn’t seem to work most of the time. I would see someone resing or stomping, try to interrupt them with slick shoes and…nothing happens. Of course I could be wrong.

Good rezzers use stability when rezzing, so… yeah.
But looking good with slick shoes dancing all around the rezzer to the soundtrack of MJ’s “Beat it”
If the Engi fails, he at least fails with style, ehrm versatility I mean.
“The shoes… they do nothing!!”

Quoting this for glory and truth in respect to the Engi:

They told him don’t you ever come around here
Don’t wanna see your face, you better disappear
The fire’s in their eyes and their words are really clear
So beat it, just beat it

You better run, you better do what you can
Don’t wanna see no blood, don’t be a macho man
You wanna be tough, better do what you can
So beat it, but you wanna be bad

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin’ how funky strong is your fight
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it
Just beat it, beat it

They’re out to get you, better leave while you can
Don’t wanna be a boy, you wanna be a man
You wanna stay alive, better do what you can
So beat it, just beat it

You have to show them that you’re really not scared
You’re playin’ with your life, this ain’t no truth or dare
They’ll kick you, then they beat you,
Then they’ll tell you it’s fair
So beat it, but you wanna be bad

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin’ how funky strong is your fight
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin’ how funky strong is your fight
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it

Beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin’ how funky strong is your fight
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or right

Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it
No one wants to be defeated
Showin’ how funky strong is your fight
It doesn’t matter who’s wrong or who’s right
They told him don’t you ever come around here
Don’t wanna see your face, you better disappear
The fire’s in their eyes and their words are really clear
So beat it, just beat it

You better run, you better do what you can
Don’t wanna see no blood, don’t be a macho man
You wanna be tough, better do what you can
So beat it, but you wanna be bad

Shake it up, shake it down, shake your booty all around.
Asura have one weakness after all…

I got me some slick new shoes!
If I wiggle my toes, little wheels and a tiny jet engine pop our of them and let me move 2x faster for 1 second… in the end knocking me down 2 seconds of course.

646.
The part of the video where you go as low as 646 always makes me smile.

dirtyshame.1863:

Found some secret Patch notes from Devs

Skills and improvements

Toss/consuming elixirs now creates an AoE cripple and bleed on all enemies not wearing shoes when the bottle hits the ground. To compensate, Engineers will be billed 1 silver littering fee for every bottle dropped.

Turrets health and damage output have been doubled. The turrets are now heavier give themselves stability when deployed and to the engineer when stowed. However, the engineer experiences a 25% loss in overall speed movement for each turret stowed. Careful if you’re holding 4, you will be the unmovable statue.

New Turret: Tripod Camera: allows enemies to create screen shots of themselves after they successfully stomp the engineer.

Trait line improvement for tools. Scattered Toolbox: As your fumble around looking for parts, the engineer creates 3 seconds of fury and 3 seconds of self inflicting confusion when toolkit is equipped.

Pistol #1 no change, but a little flag comes out the end saying “Bang”. Pistol #2 has been fixed. It now misses with every shot as intended.

Weapon stats now effect kits which means the overall damage output of kits must be tweaked to compensate.
Grenades now have pins to pull making cast time 2 seconds and if caught by enemy player may
be thrown back at the casting engineer.
Flamethrower works under water (yay just like elementalists who can still attune to fire underwater) creating extreme heat and boiling water around enemies. Enemies are relaxed, regain HP, but are too lazy to actually attack you.
Flamethrower #2 is now a targeted AoE, but instead of exploding hands out sticks with marshmallows to all in range. Flamethrower #1 now causes fuel leak igniting the engineer on fire allowing for those with cooking of 325 or higher to cook marshmallows on engineers burning body.
Bomb kit explosions now can be traited to work 75% faster, but they can damage the casting engineer and allies.
Elixir gun #2 has been replaced with Snot Rocket covering the enemy in a green sticky ooze. Enemies flee in terror for 3 seconds. Engineer is forced to /laugh for 5 seconds after cast.

All elixirs now have same 30 second CD and create random abilities. We don’t even know what they do, we closed our eyes and just coded blindly on this part. Have fun.

Static discharge has been changed to compensate for the extreme burst. After each cast the engineer gets a 10 second stack of “Charged”, at 3 stacks the Engineer becomes fully charged and all enemies are pulled to the engineer and cannot be removed without jumping in water.

Gadgets now have passive skills. Goggles allow the engineer to see the enemies without any armor. Rocket boots now play “Rocket man” constantly in the background. Slick shoes now give you the appearance of Data from the Goonies movie. Battering ram turns into a small mechanical ram that can be ridden (50% movement decrease, 100% fun increase).

Saw Goonies reference, left satisfied.

Respect to every good (enemy)player/guild out there (which sometimes aren’t the ones who accidentally wipe us, while we are standing with our pants down and tickling each others schlossen ^^. ) in the current matchup…
you know who you are!

@[KAZ], love your relaxed forum attitude.

New elite:

Nuke
- instantly kills your and ANet players characters on every server. cooldown 1 hour. Everyones repair bills are directly substracted from the players gold, or if not enough gold available, the players real life money. After you respawn, you are knocked down, knocked back or launched in the air randomly during the cooldown period.

New Kit added:

Kitten Kit, equips two kittens.
Skill #1: Meow
Hold you main and off hand kitten in the enemies face to inflict bleeding and allergies.
Skill #2: Arch
Get on all fours, arch your back and walk sideways to confuse the enemy (1 stack, 1 sec)
Skill #3: Furball
Cough a giant furball on your enemies inflicting 1 sec stun
Skill #4: Doggiestyle
Throw yourself on your back, pretending you are a dog to trick the enemy into playing with you. Deals 2x the damage of skill #1
Skill #5: Hello Kitty
Makes you 20% cuter and charm the enemy by purring and makes him attack his allies

Aveneo.2068:

Pannonica.5378:

Dear Deso… so you want to attack the weakest of the servers to make it easy for you to gain points, ok… but we’re only 5 people atm, why are you trebbing our last tower?! Please attack it directly. Its pathetic…

I’ve been on my Ranger in BT BL for 5 hours straight together with 2 of my guildmates and we were just roaming around with our favorite commander. A few hours earlier we were at Crag with some rams, then a golem. And because every time a 20-30 man zerg stormed out of the citadel, we chose to do a two-pronged attack with trebs and catas after that.

So to you it may be pathetic that we used trebs from the Garrison to take the other tower, but to us it was a proper tactic as we didn’t know there were only 5 of you left. We were expecting the same 20-30 group to come bursting out of your Citadel, so we set up trebs instead. You see, at that time there were approximately 15-20 of us left if I remember correctly.

Trust me, I have nothing personal against Blacktide at all. Frankly, when I meet you on the field, I fight as honorable as I can because I deem you a worthy opponent who fights fair in general (contrary to that other server).

/salute

At the time of my post, you already took everything and you must have seen (and felt while taking), that we’re just a handful and not 20-30.
I can understand if one chooses to treb and its a valid thing to do, but well, that last one was meh against so few of us. See below.

Jurrien.2617:

Pannonica.5378:

Dear Deso… so you want to attack the weakest of the servers to make it easy for you to gain points, ok… but we’re only 5 people atm, why are you trebbing our last tower?! Please attack it directly. Its pathetic…

That doesn’t make any sense. Just because you’re with 5 people left, which we didn’t have anything to do with, we should adapt to you? You’re just mad because you’re losing big, that’s pathetic.

If you knew RG, we dont give a flying kitten about points. All that counts for us is the direct confrontation against good enemy players. Preferable against bigger numbers.
Sad I personally was… because I found it unintelligible to not confront us directly, especially after everything has been taken by you easily and it was clear we we’re just a few. I find it proper etiquette to give that last few enemy players the honour of a last stand, so to speak. If you didn’t notice it yet, we’re all playing this game together; there would be no victory for you without us loosing. I’m sorry to say this, but failure to appreciate our cooperation in the game just shows your egocentric attitude and is a sign of no good sportsmanship.
Apparently boredom already set in at your end…

Quentin Fields.1295:

Pannonica.5378:

Probably. PvD ftw. Never understood it really. ^^.
But yeah, its more fun than getting spanked by a few BT pugs. xD

Mind not giving me PvD whine please?.

Stopped reading right there, since it was clear you didn’t check what I was refering too. I’m sorry if you thought this was a general statement/bash against your crew. I was refering to a specific situation, is all. And just because I don’t understand PvD, it doesn’t mean I have quarrel with it.
Also you can’t take a joke, so thats that then.

Probably. PvD ftw. Never understood it really. ^^.
But yeah, its more fun than getting spanked by a few BT pugs. xD

Dear Deso… so you want to attack the weakest of the servers to make it easy for you to gain points, ok… but we’re only 5 people atm, why are you trebbing our last tower?! Please attack it directly. Its pathetic…

ukuni.8745:

Pannonica.5378:

ukuni.8745:

in wvw the other day i 1v1 a p/d thief, believe me or not he was very good after a good fight i finally downed him and just before i could finish him i was smashed by a d/d ele , i did the /join so i could talk to them […]

Noob question: How do you do the /join, if you don’t know their account names?

/join and /invite will work on the person u have selected

Thanks.

ukuni.8745:

in wvw the other day i 1v1 a p/d thief, believe me or not he was very good after a good fight i finally downed him and just before i could finish him i was smashed by a d/d ele , i did the /join so i could talk to them […]

Noob question: How do you do the /join, if you don’t know their account names?

tehdevbot.1398:

Noobish question here, but what stats would one work towards on a build like this?

All the info you need is here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Video-WvW-roaming-engineer

Just read the first post.

It should also be noted that in the reddit post I linked above, the original poster writes:

“Most crucially, any internal cooldowns appear to be shared globally – while one sigil is cooling down, another type 3 or 4 sigil cannot activate (Type (1), (2) and (5) sigils continue to work without any problems). In other words, any sigil that has its own internal cooldown cannot activate while another sigil is on cooldown. The most extreme case of this is the Sigil of Rage with its 45 second cooldown – this means that for 45 seconds, no other sigil with a cooldown can proc, even if it’s on a different weapon set.”

Also a very valuable information.
Type 3 and 4 sigils are weapon swap (3) and on crit (4) sigils.
Type 1 and 2 are passive effect (1) and stack on kill (2).
Type 5 is effect on kill.
Better read the complete reddit post.

No, if your main hand triggers then your off hand won’t because of the cooldown.
I.e.: Two Sigil of Battle will never give you 6 stacks, because the main hand eats the cooldown.
Or more precise:
Two weapon swap sigils won’t work at the same time. Because of its priority only the main hand will trigger.
Sorry for being unclear before.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Disastro.4086:

I feel that p/p elixir builds are in a fairly good place compared to other condition builds in the game it’s the only class that can reliably keep all damaging condition types up on a target.

Having said that though a lot of the builds are 1 trick ponies that do it worse than everyone else with “less” versatility.

ANet’s Official Statement
“The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.”

….If we could swap all our utilities on demand while “in combat” I could maybe understand thats statement. However there are no truely “verstatile” viable builds that can fill all/any roll enough to be peanlized… I simply do not understand their logic at all when something like a guardian or warrior can potentially be more versatile with more utility/buffs/control and do more damage but not be penalized in the same way.

I do still play my engineer I enjoy it but this “vision” garbage they have in their heads vs. reality is doing damage to the class and game. It was this exact same kind of mentality that caused the mass exodus out of EQ1 back in the day.

If they can truly make their vision match what is in game then that is fine but currently they’re polar opposites.

That vision from ArenaNet seems correct. You can on the fly(outside of combat) vastly change your setup based on your situation(in combat you can change to toolkits on the fly). You seem to want the maximized version of every kit available to you at all times which would make the class way overpowered.

Agreed to part of quote in italics.
BUT…. what is the difference to every other profession out there then?
Any profession can retrait, shuffle abilities around and change their playstyle. I don’t see what sets us apart from them then.

Following this thought basically means that we are as versatile as any other profession (except the king of versatility of course), but get hit with a price for it, while other professions can just faceroll. ^^

“All Magic Comes With A Price”, but only for Engineers?

My editing was too slow. Please check my original reply.

Totally does, totally does.

Edit: Except you have it on your off-hand and your main-hand triggers the sigil cooldown, preventing the off-hand to proc.
Check this, most of it is still true:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10ilke/how_sigils_work/
Also:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sigil
Check the comment under cooldowns.

TK’s Magnet also most of the time only makes Dolyaks (WvWvW supply Dolyaks) ‘stumble’ a bit, i.e. not pulling them at all.
Side note: it would be great if we could cancel the ability and only have a short cooldown of a few seconds once it is cancelled.
One can dream…

Thanks for this nice video!
Haha, good fight against Tanktree. It stood a real chance, but in the end it literally owned itself…. should have known better… stupid tree, err… cat.
(A strange build though, or badly played.

Edit: I meant the opponents build and not yours obviously!)

Thanks for reporting and free bump.

Big up to everyone (pugs, parts of big guilds, small guilds) on Blacktide for fighting like this in our current population situation.
I have a feeling pugs finally learned how to play together more efficiently.
And this despite the language barrier!

We had some fierce long fights on Blacktide borderland last night, where in the end Blacktide prevailed; fights which would have ended in our enemies favour normally (and in fact did end in our enemies favour since beginning of this WvWvW cycle). Last nights fights were really surprising considering the fact people hardly speak the same language.
’t was fun, thanks to all parties/servers/guilds involved!

Happy New Year to everyone!

Wow, just wow… how much (random) Kitten is in our profession.

Not really sure if I found a bug here… and not sure its a bug with the Engineer or another profession (or their abilities respectively. Thiefs Steal comes to mind.):

In WvW combat, it sometimes happens that, when I try to swap from a kit to my main weapon, I end up in Medkit (when it is selected to be my heal skill on the toolbar), and need several seconds until I can swap out of it again.
It is hard to tell because of the heat of the combat, but it could also be that I am able to swap into my previously equiped kit but not to my main weapon.

Pretty vague, sorry.
And could also be a problem with my mouse.

Just posting this in case somebody else experienced this problem; also posting because of this report:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Grenade-Kit-automatic-weapon-swap

Didn’t use rifle much since last patch. Could be that something got kittenedup in last patch.
What I experienced more than once since last patch though is sometimes when I want to unequip, lets say the TK to get my main weapon up, I end up on my Medkit and can’t seem to get out of it for some seconds no matter what.
Up until now, I blamed my mousebuttons for this, but now you mentioned a GK oddity, it is possible the culprit isn’t my mouse.

Since this is rare and as far as I can tell, if it happens, it happens exclusively in or during combat, I can’t really verify or reproduce this.
Maybe we are on to something here…

Now this being said, the Thief has the Steal skill which shouldn’t remove the item from the Thiefs target, but copy the stolen skill to the thiefs hands.
Is there maybe a bug with Steal? Any Thieves around?

Well said, Centrix.
/signed

Bunch of Nerdy Programmers… I hope your guild is all Asuras then, aye?
Also… whats your guild tag?

Talking WvW here: It is really hard to tell whether grenade kit did too much damage relative to other kits, while other kits (or traits that impact kits respectively) being as buggy as they are (not restricted to WvW of course).
Another reason you can’t really compare them, is that grenades have a high chance to not hit a moving target (at range).
Did you hear other people fighting Engineers complain about our grenade damage?
Also, not only Grenade Kit was toned down but other kits, as well as written in the patch notes, plus it was more than 30% to Grenade Kit… more about 35%.

My point is: fix bugs first, then check balance in targeted environment (including communities opinion filtered through devs views), then tone down (if needed at all).

The randomness is strong in us.
Thank you ANet…

Haha, you’re right. Didn’t think of that neither.
Probably a berf for everything excluding sPVP then. ._.

Wrex.6798:

Pretty funny that Blacktide are trying to recruit from Deso, you guys keep us laughing!

To be honest guys, if someone wants to go from Deso – stable server with a great community and fun times in WvW, to Blacktide – falling/failing fast while using underhanded tactics to try to destabilse our great server, then they deserve to be recurited by this random Blacktide commander who’s trying to sabotage WvW.

Thumbs up Deso we’re doing great, lets keep it up during the week Fun matchup so far shame that a few bad apples have to lower T2’s run like this.

//Wrex

Yeah, lets just file this under hasty reaction/being drunk/tired out and move on.

Yeah, your conclusion seems solid.
They are happy about how the Engi performs, or don’t care (lack of dev posts/communication in our forum).
Kind of sad though, to be honest. q

Deified.7520:

We’re supposed to have a January update, and if they nerf engineer again I feel there is going to be a huge firestorm.

I expect a berf or a nuff by means of giving us weapon stats on kits and then reducing damage output on every kit. This has the potential of nullifying some of the few viable builds people are running at the moment….
But who knows, maybe awesomeness is coming towards us!
Wait…
no.
We are too versatile already. We are almost, but not quite, the kings of versatility.

Haha, BT the threat?!
Please look at the scores from the last three cycles again.
Xaoc, or BT in general, is really low on numbers, especially at night in Europe… nothing compared to when BT last met Deso, so don’t get any wrong ideas.
And our top towers are guarded stubbornly (by not many players at night to be fair), because it is all we got, so… yeah.
The Kaz nightshift is playing nice and lively, kudos, but it seems like the fitting counterforce for BT 3 cycles ago, not for the present cycle, so I hope for you, you have interesting other things to do and don’t get bored.

Versatility for the Engineer is traiting all over the place to get the same effect other professions get for free as a minor trait.

NastyPiggy.2046:

Lunar Corporation.5720:

No no, there is more to the story guys-

—And then that one thief—that one that you thought you saw but decided he was probably not interested in the goings on—pops HS on you and you are 100 blades by a little asura with an afro while mesmer walks in with an electric guitar singing freebird. The end.

ED. by the end, I mean, this would be a fitting end to this thread too…

Elixir S is your friend.

Elixir S AND Self-Regulating Defenses AND Inertial Converter are your lovers.

Junkpile.7439:

Pannonica.5378:

Jackie.1829:

Nobody has ever really won anything because of skill, just numbers.

I beg to differ. I witnessed lots of battles, in which a group of smaller numbers won over an overwhelming number of enemies by using clever tactics.
And for the trolls: No, I do not mean us/my guild excusively. There were many instances in which enemy servers groups used skill to win/hold objectives against bigger numbers.

Holding some objective isn’t winning, wiping enemy zerg isn’t winning. Winning means that you win whole kitten.

I was replying to what I considered to be a general statement. Read the last few paragraphs of his post again… I thought he was talking generally.

And in respect to winning as you describe it… in my opinion there is no winning in this WvW then. ‘Winning’ a WvW cycle by points, i.e. having the most points on the moment of reset, means nothing because you get nothing from/for it (except some get a warm and fuzzy feeling in their heart).
In my opinion, there is no ‘whole kitten’ to win, or even ‘half a kitten’ for that matter. However, holding objectives until the enemy gives up (especially against bigger numbers by the means of clever tactic/good strategy/good organisation (i.e. skill), to come back to the topic of the post that I replied to originally), wiping enemy zergs (especially against bigger numbers… see above) until they don’t come back to get wiped I consider wins.
Some could argue even holding objectives isn’t winning, because if you/your zerg/your guild logs off, another different group of enemies appear and take the objective in seconds; so what was won there… and who won (considering the enemy could log and a group of your server could claim the objective again)?
So all that is win in the end per my definition, is the direct confrontation against even/or bigger numbers and the victory in that particular moment (until the enemy doesn’t return for more spanking).

Jackie.1829:

Nobody has ever really won anything because of skill, just numbers.

I beg to differ. I witnessed lots of battles, in which a group of smaller numbers won over an overwhelming number of enemies by using clever tactics.
And for the trolls: No, I do not mean us/my guild excusively. There were many instances in which enemy servers groups used skill to win/hold objectives against bigger numbers.

You bored Viz? Nothing else to do but to try to kill a morphed Dolyak/Moose/Ram at north camp on BT BL? =D
Welcome to T1.