Guild Wars 2

With Big Brother watching, the only thing I can say is (evidently) that I disagree with people in this thread who are only posting that they disagree with me, without posting any actual evidence or support for their standpoints.

Oh, and that Legendaries should be account-bound. Seriously.

To all of you complaining about how long it takes to get a Legendary weapon, consider the alternatives for a moment:

• Random drop chance – Anybody who’s played WoW knows what the Ashes of A’lar was. They also know that they have almost no chance of EVER getting that item, because it was like a 0.02% drop chance from a raid boss. I’m not saying GW2 should have no random drops of high rarity, but they only make for a certain degree of RNG-based fun. It’s nothing to build a system like Legendary BiS’s on.

• A “massive” quest/storyline – This would either A) be so massive that it was ridiculous and un-fun, possibly taking up valuable Arenanet resources from developing/polishing the rest of the game, or be short and easy such that everybody could get it. Would you really like everybody to be running around with a Legendary?

• Dungeon Progression Grind – There are already Exotics for this. Plus, as WoW showed us, there are 2 groups of people who fight about this, one of which is ultimately alienated. Group 1 are the “hardcore” raiders, who want their shinies to belong ONLY to them. Group 2 are the “casuals” who “don’t have time” to raid, but still want cool gear. You can’t please both groups (Badges of Justice lolol).

The only thing left is a massive resource grind. Compared to the other options, it’s really not that bad: Not everybody will get one, but everybody could get one if they wanted. People act like they “have to grind all these resources and get a Legendary.” Wait a minute. Have to? Isn’t this a video game that we play for fun? They’re not even the best weapons in game; they’re just ridiculously awesome skins.

I, for one, really love Legendaries, even though I probably will never ever have one. It gives me an impetus to play and experience the whole world. I have NEVER enjoyed gathering crafting mats like I have in this game. When I see someone with a Legendary, I think, “Awesome! That is such a cool item! I hope to have one someday.” It makes me feel better about the game in general. It’s something to aspire-to; something Legendary!

P.S.: Arenanet, more plz??

Shiren.9532:

Five months in an you haven’t hit 80 yet you are taking issue with the criticism/praise of the game by others who have clocked many hours? At least you’re not going into specifics because clearly you haven’t experienced many of them, but the general sentiment that someone is being too negative when you haven’t reached the end game… why bother?

You’re assuming that playing the game for a long time and experiencing all the content would make me a self-righteous cynic (like you). I don’t think it will, but since neither of us can predict the future, let’s let the ad hominims go, eh?

I really don’t understand topics like these.

I see people all the time across all zones.

There. Now we’ve both used anecdotal “feeling” arguments. Where do we go from here in this discussion? Or were you just hoping for a circle-jerk of whinging?

Hi, I’m Pawstruck, and I’m going to try to break the mould a little bit. Threads here are usually either hyper-critical “this game sucks omgomg” or borderline psychopathic “I LIKE GW2 AND YOU CAN’T TELL ME ANY DIFFERENT,” head-in-the-sand-ers.

I’m not a master player; honestly I haven’t even hit 80 yet due to RL responsibilities and computer issues. I’ve heard there’s an issue with endgame content, and I’m sure it’s true. A-net wanted to break people of the “MUST GET SHINY” mentality from WoW, and that’s great in concept… but, from what I can see, they’re hitting some rough terrain in execution.

My thing is… so what? Yes, there are things that bug me about the game. Glitches suck. Vanilla abilities/traits that do almost nothing? They suck. But I don’t pay a subscription, and we’ve been told there are some major “expansion-level” renovations coming down the line. I hope that’s true, and I hope to continue playing for a long time — if I can get my stupid computer fixed. -_-

TLDR: A-net, you have some great ideas, but admittedly missed the mark on some execution issues. I hope the game is still considered a success, and I hope you stay afloat.

(Feel free to post overall opinions, but let’s not devolve into emotive whining or blind praises, ok?)

This is an update/rework of my previous thread, which is a couple of months old. It can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Predictable-FPS-drop-Nvidia-cards-fail/first#post914449

The issue:
Every ~1-10 minutes, my FPS tanks for no good reason. I’m running 50+ normally, and it drops to about 10-15. This is not correlative with activity going on; it’s the same in WvW, major cities, or just sitting around looking at wall. I’ve tested this EXTENSIVELY… as in, stopwatches, every diagnostic program out there, the works. It seems completely random.

Things it’s definitely not:
-Lag/latency
-Program running in background
-A rig issue (will list specs below)
-Graphics settings too high (they’re all on med-low)
-Drivers issue (I’ve tried everything from old drivers to beta drivers)

The rig:
-AMD FX-8120 Eight-core processor @ 3.10 GHz
-8 GB DDR3
-Win 7 x64
-NVIDIA 560ti

• * *
  Now for the updated part. I left off where the techie I’m talking to from A-net told me that my GPU/CPU clock speeds were variant from “factory default,” and that I should adjust them. I thought it was bunk. I tried it anyway. It didn’t work.

But here’s the interesting bit: Running MSI Afterburner while in-game, I noticed the following changes when “The Issue” occurs. The top list are the video card’s specs NORMALLY, while the bottom lists the specs WHILE THE PROBLEM OCCURS. Check this out:

Control (issue not occurring):
GPU Temperature: 49
GPU Usage (%): Varied, from 30-50
Fan speed %: 54
Fan Tachometer, RPM: ~2400
Core clock, MHz: 823
Shader clock, MHz: 1645
Memory clock, MHz: 1998
Memory Usage, MB: ~435

During Frame Dip:
GPU Temperature: 46
GPU Usage (%): 10-12
Fan speed %: 52
Fan Tachometer, RPM: No change.
Core clock, MHz: 405
Shader clock, MHz: 810
Memory clock, MHz: 324
Memory Usage, MB: No change.

As you can see, the card is actually underperforming when the issue occurs, rather than performing at peak efficiency as if trying to handle a huge load. (Note: CPU performance was sporadic from 20-50% workload across all cores at all times, with no change when the issue occurred). Please note that this ONLY occurs with GW2, and not any other games like League of Legends, Portal 2, Darkspore, and etc.

What do you guys think? This is crazy. I’m kinda wondering if my PSU is under-juicing my card. I’ve changed the card to an old 9800 GTX+ and the problem still occurs, so it’s not the card itself.

If anyone has any other ideas, let me know. It’s a brand new Thermaltake 650-watt PSU.

Thanks for the input, everyone! It’s really interesting to hear other people’s stories.

What do you suggest as an activity a mid-level character can do with a level 80 that will be fully rewarding to both of them? Since they’ve all got 100% world completion, hearts aren’t really an option.

It was a rhetorical question meant to display a point. That would be obvious to anyone that actually tried to read the topic you are referencing.

/gg

So… I’m noticing a trend on the forums (not necessarily in game) where people are complaining about the new gated gear-grind system and how it’s taking people out of the world; that there are “empty” zones with all points contested and nobody to do events, etc. etc.

Right.

I’m just wondering.

Are you the same people who complained 2 months ago that there was no endgame content? When the developers and the community responded that “endgame starts at level 1,” were you the people who laughed and said “that’s cute, but we want something more”? Endgame at launch was pretty much the same as beginning- and middle-game: Gather, kill stuff, get skill points, craft weapons, do dungeons. Sounds like an MMO to me.

We all knew, though, that the devs would eventually need to provide some sort of standardized repeatable content for those die-hard grinders. Now it’s here, and everybody’s doing it. And now we’ve got the WoW problem: People standing around major cities and not going into zones. Well, I should say we supposedly have the WoW problem, because I still see people all over the place. Not that I personally care; I typically play alone. But I’m still in que for 1-5 hours for WvW (this is a good thing), I still see the cities populated, and the sky to my knowledge hasn’t fallen yet.

And so I ask you: Come, let us reason together. GW2 launched with no traditional endgame, and we cried for it. Now we’re getting it. How do you feel about it? What should the vision for endgame content be in a game like this? Do we still think there should be endgame content?

Instead of just complaining and doomsaying, let’s get some coherent philosophy going on.

-Paw

P.S.: “Endgame” is referencing here a gated system wherein only level 80’s with certain requirements met can participate, i.e. the Agony system.

Hi there everyone. My name is Pawstruck. I’m currently a 23 year old male. I am married and enrolled in a master’s program at Princeton. I have no children, so I get a breather there. However, I also really enjoy League of Legends, and play it on a daily basis.

My point is that I don’t have a lot of time to play. Not nearly as much as I’d like, although I constantly feel like I play games in general far too much for my age/profession/marital status. I probably play about 10-15 hours of GW2 per week.

I was a pre-order-early-launcher, and my first character was a thief. I fantasized about how my friends and I would be storming castles in WvWvW, I’d be stealthing around assassinating people, and etc. I would even be Sylvari; Autumn-themed, to be exact, to fit the onset of death that my character would bring. (Nerdy, amirite?)

This is before I realized thieves don’t play like Rogues/Druids on WoW. There’s no perma-stealth, and a TON of precision is required (despite what QQ on the Thief forums might indicate) to 100-0 someone. If you miss, you’re toast. It feels like you’re an assassin trying to kill someone by throwing a grain of rice down their throat to choke them. Fail it and you feel like a dumby.

My thief hit level 50… and thing started to slow way down. (Currently lvl 63).

I started an Elementalist, knowing nothing about perceived class balance. I LOVED the fighting-game-esque button-mashing playstyle. For 28 levels I facerolled my heart out. Then I realized there are really only one or two cool combos for each weapon set, and a lot of the spells are flat out underwhelming (Water Trident, lolol). So there he sits…

Tonight I took a Necromancer to the Heart of the Mists… and it felt AWESOME. Condition damage, you say?! It’s an entire CLASS fully built around buffs and debuffs. How cool is that!? I didn’t know what the heck I was doing, but MAN they seem to have some awesome spells. I particularly like the one that instantly turns all enemy boons into conditions. >:D

Annnnnd you can guess where this is going. I have a couple of RL friends who have been 80 since like week 3, and they want to play with me. They want me to be 80, and to be honest don’t play much at all since I’m not. We all usually play MMO’s and raid/PVP/etc just together, the 4 of us. So… they’re kind of depending on me (they would never admit it, it’s just how our social circle works) to get to 80 “so we can all play together.”

My problems are 1) every class has SOME minor design flaws I can see, and 2) every class looks feels AWESOME. So what do you guys suggest? It’s really actually stressing me out, and I don’t like to get stressed out over games, so I usually just don’t play at all. What do?

-Paw

P.S.: My perceived pro’s/cons

THIEF
+Cool ninja/assassin theme
+Closest to 80
+Overall tight design feel
-Often forced to use Shortbow in WvW and dungeons, which is kitten br /> -100-0 builds are nerfed, leaving.. ??? in PVP
-Weird stealth mechanic

ELEMENTALIST
+Flashy
+Fighting-game-style “keyboard piano” playstyle
+Sweet combos
+Able to do more than just damage in dungeons
+Level 28, better starting than level 1
-Community seems to warn of extreme underpowered-ness at 80
-Questionable PVP viability
-Combos get repetitive quick
-Can’t switch weapons even out of combat, which is annoying as hell because I have to manually equip them
-Many spells feel useless and flavorless; many glitch out and don’t work
-SUPER crappy elite skills.

NECROMANCER
+Awesome theme and spell effects
+Unique condition-centered gameplay
+Probably better than Ele in PVP :p
+Overall design feels good, all spells feel effective and unique
-Idk much about it
-The pets are disgusting, I’d probably rarely use any unless I had to…
-I’d be starting ALL OVER again

As far as heat goes, it’s not an issue (I monitored it with Razer’s Game Booster software). I have 3 fans in my PC, so it’s not surprising.

As far as drivers go, I know I’ve read many many threads from Nvidia users from the 500’s to the 700’s who get incredibly low framerates. And then, as you said, there are always 10 people that come behind saying “I have a x and mine works at 100fps…” So, yeah. I understand the difficulty in making games for what are essentially an unlimited number of specs. =/ Also remember both A-net and Nvidia have admitted that they’re not fully optimized for each other yet, and they’re constantly working on it.

I really find it hard to believe that it’s the hardware. I got my 560ti a year ago when they already weren’t new, so I don’t expect perfection. But 10fps on medium settings? Come on now. Plenty of people have worse cards and they do fine.

UPDATE FROM SUPPORT:

Welp, I told my support guy there was no way this was a latency issue and he’s like

“Oh. Well it sounds like one to me. Um… your processor is running slightly faster than manufacturer’s specs… look into setting it to its correct speed and then re-contact me if you’re still having problems. I know GW2 is sensitive about running at factory defaults.”

I’m sorry, but that sounds like the biggest load to me. I think I just ticked him off by saying it wasn’t latency and how could he possibly get the two confused given my detailed description. He’s leaving it up to ME to figure out how to adjust the clock speed of my processor? Thanks, bub. That’s really helpful. My tech knowledge stops just short of things like that, and I do know that screwing it up can ruin your hardware sometimes. So, no. I won’t be doing that.

This seems pretty stupid. I’ve never heard of a slightly-overclocked CPU lowering game performance. I flat out don’t believe it. Anybody else smell the fishyness here?

In the meantime, I guess I just won’t play. I’ve still got League, after all. This is sad though, because I like the game and want to contribute to its health both by my presence and monetarily through buying gems. I’ll just have to wait ’till they optimize it more, I guess. Playing now gives me a headache.

Wow, that’s depressing Aoshi. I’ve always got quick responses from the techs, even if they are a bit daft sometimes. I’ve opened this and 2 other separate tickets and both got answered quickly. Sucks that you didn’t have the same luck. :/

You’d think they would want to collect as much detailed information as they could about these problems so they could optimize the game.

UPDATE:

After running Pingplotter, the test results showed some packet loss.

Tech Support replied by explaining to me what packet loss was and how it caused “rubberbanding.” They said this was my issue and to talk to my ISP.

………………………
………
….
Are you kidding me? After all the detail with which I’ve described this problem they’re trying to pawn it off as latency? What about the CPU workload increase? The fact that this doesn’t happen in ANY OTHER GAMES, including graphically complex ones? What about the fact that LATENCY IS NOT FPS DROP?

Wow. Just wow. I’m a little irritated. It really doesn’t feel like support is reading what I write to them. I’m trying to explain the problem in detail so they can help, but they’re clearly just running through some prescribed step-by-step program so they can close my ticket and write it off as “solved” even when they know good and well it isn’t. That’s kind of a joke.

Hehe. What’s the easiest way to disable all (and I mean all, of possible) unnecessary programs? I mean there’s always msconfig, but I’m always afraid I’m gonna turn off some vital boot process; I don’t know enough about Windows to distinguish. :p

Hello all.

I’m here to get some feedback on an issue I’ve been having since launch. This thread is for discussion, speculation, and reference for anyone else who might be experiencing a similar issue. It’s a bit of a strange phenomenon, but I can’t be the only one being plagued by it.

THE SPECS:
AMD Fx-8120 Eight-Core Processor @ 3.10 Ghz
8 GB DDR3
Nvidia Geforce 560 ti
Windows 7 x64 bit

THE PROBLEM:
While playing the game, I run anywhere from 30-60 FPS, depending on where I am. (I get about 30 in the Charr fractal and 50-60 in unpopulated areas of the world). This is with many settings on high, a few on medium, and shadows completely off. Overall, this is acceptable.

However, once every about every 2 minutes my FPS tanks to 10 or less for about twenty seconds. It happens almost on the dot every time. This is a mere annoyance at first, but quickly becomes maddening when it occurs right when I’m trying to dodge a big boss spell or something. It also gives me a headache after an hour or so.

During this time, my CPU load nearly doubles from around 30% to upwards of 60%.

THE SOLUTION..?
I have a ticket open right now that’s been back-and-forth with GW2 tech support for a few weeks now. So far I have:

1) Sent about half a million DxDiags and etc
2) Run Benchmark tests with Heaven DX11
3) Disabled all unnecessary 3rd-party programs
4) Disabled virus protection/firewalls
5) Ran Speccy and provided a snapshot, adjusting video card/in game settings accordingly
6) Used Driver Fusion to ensure I had installed a clean version of my video card drivers
7) Provided in-game screenshots
8) I am at this very moment running Pingplotter to provide a survey of my network’s capability

As you can see, there’ve been a long list of trials. So far, all have been errors. My hunch, as a know-just-enough-not-to-get-ripped-off-too-bad-at-the-computer-store techie, is that there’s a memory leak or something similar going on with the video card. I’ve heard TONS of stories of Nvidia users’ rigs hating GW2, and I personally think it’s sad since this is an Nvidia-sponsored game. I suspect, since there’s a CPU sink when this goes down, that something is intermittently draining my computer’s strength.

Anyone else having this problem is welcome to post here. Any wild speculation or criticism will be welcomed. If support works out a solution, I’ll be back to post it. Until then…

-Pawstruck

P.S.: Before you nerds go on the “my rig is better than yours” kick… don’t try it. I’ve been to way too many forums that did that, and I’m not in the mood. I know my processor could’ve been better, and looking back I wish I’d gone with AMD. But it’s no explanation for this peculiar dip in performance, so stay on topic and don’t troll, please.

The problem IMHO is that they’re good, but not good enough to take up a utility slot unless you’re running an instagib build. Instagibs don’t care about utility or survivability at all, and thus replacing Shadowstep with a venom isn’t that big a deal to them. However, I can’t see how venoms could possibly fit into a “normal” build that doesn’t want to kill the person in 1 second: They don’t last long enough, they have long cooldowns, and they take away a utility slot.

@ens.

Please read the thread before posting. Thanks.

@Cyricus
Interesting. I’m not really sure what I’ll do knowing this… I could try and push to 60 (and then 80) and wait for exotics for those OMGHUGE NUMBERS. Or I could level my Ele, who is only 22 =/ What I keep asking myself is, “why did it take you 55 levels to notice this?”

@Wiser With Age,

I’m not looking for an instagib build. In fact, I agree that they shouldn’t exist in this game. I’m talking about spike damage that actually seems to be worth the setup of backstab.

Also, an aside… I was kind of hoping there would be more combos available. I.e., Pounce/Mangle/Rake/Rip/Shred… yanno? What I find myself doing in PVE is just

auto
auto
auto
CnD
Backstab
auto
auto
auto
Cnd
Backstab
Heartseeker
Heartseeker

Am I just being too nitpicky? It seems like my Elementalist has 10 different ways to kill something whereas my Thief has a backstab that works 50% of the time… OR, as Quickhit said, a condition damage build where I just stack DoTs by pushing 3 and autoing them to death. -_-

Hey guys,

My thief is level 55 and I’m having trouble closing the distance to 80.

The problem I’m experiencing is that, at my level, none of the weapon sets feel truly right, especially dagger/dagger. Sometimes I’ll get a nice, fat crit on a backstab for like 1/2 the enemy’s HP and it’s very satisfying. At least half of the time, though, the ability won’t crit or even if it does, won’t do a lot of damage.

My spec is 20/20/0/5/0 atm, with the appropriate backstab build insofar as my level allows it.

It might not seem like a big deal to you 80’s, but for me it IS a big deal. When my backstab does less damage than if I’d just kept auto-attacking, it’s a problem. My “combo’s” feel worthless half the time. This is not to mention that Death Blossom, the “special” d/d 3 ability, is pointless. Other weapon sets aren’t much better, as Sword/* still feels like either auto-attack or PW spam.

I dunno. I just feel a little disenchanted with the class at present. I’ve been 55 for about a week now, and I find it hard to enjoy combat. Even shortbow isn’t great, with a slow, moderate-damage AOE as its only really interesting bit. I’ve played in Heart of the Mists with backstab builds and they feel okay, although you have to sacrifice EVERYTHING to get that truly satisfying “backstabby” feeling.

This seems stupid to me. On WoW (sinful comparison, I know) my rogue/druid ALWAYS had a CLEAR benefit for backstabbing/Shredding. On this game it feels like too little work for too little pay. What do you guys think?

I think you should be more concerned about using a weapon that is categorically the worst at combining with others (as in, your “3” skill). :p

Seriously though, there’s no way there should be lingering effects if you stealth. If there are, it’s a bug and A-net will fix it.

This sounds like a really cool idea. I would be up for it, (my main is a Thief) but it’d have to be on my home server as I have like 8 RL friends there. If you guys by some miracle end up on Sea of Sorrows, send me a PM.

Good luck though. +1

Tongue-in-cheek trolling aside, I think the OP does kind of have a point. PVP gear is only aesthetic and can ONLY BE WORN IN PVP, so it doesn’t really feel all that special.

I mean, sure you play for fun. Duh. But an MMORPG is supposed to give unique feelings of progression, and you know it.

Just a short blurb here for anyone who wants to read it; I’m not going to explain myself a lot because A) I don’t feel like A-net is really listening and the internet is full of trolls and flamers who just want to look smart.

All I will say is the balance decisions we’ve seen so far have been miniscule, seemingly random, without explanation, and at best “whack-a-mole” style. We’ve seen the really ridiculous stuff get slowly whittled away like perma-retaliation Guardians and Heartseeker/PW Thieves, but nothing that feels like it really matters in a positive way for balance’s sake.

I’m coming into the PVP scene here from League of Legends, which is arguably one of the most diverse yet balanced games out there for competitive play. (Notice I said “arguably,” I’m not here to argue this point). This leaves me with the desire for more calculated and intelligent changes; when RIOT see something isn’t working, they’ll sometimes completely overhaul it, even if it’s an entire champion.

For example, I’m glad A-net is taking out stupid 100-0 in 2 seconds “instagib” builds. They’re damaging to the game, imo. You nerf Heartseeker and PW, cool. But where’re the changes to Flanking Strike, Body Shot, etc.? Why are we only seeing tiny “Oh, that’s WAY too powerful” -type changes when we should be seeing “FINALLY they fixed X!” -type changes?

I dunno. But I’m getting bored with this game. I feel like A-net doesn’t have a good idea of what they want the Thief or the Elementalist to actually play like, and it’s preventing them from assuring US, the players, that we aren’t wasting our time.

I agree with the OP. This is lazy balancing and the devs know it. To be honest, A-net’s slow, unresponsive, non-communicative, and flat-out lazy balancing of both my thief (who I think is OP) and my elementalist (which is almost worthless) has caused me to hardly play at all these last couple of weeks.

I’ve just been playing LoL, which is at least SEMI-balanced (’cept Darius, Jax, and Rengar… lolol)

I’m a thief, I know how to play, and I KNOW that backstab instagib builds are OP.

You guys are morons. Can’t wait to see you squirm when you get nerfed to death.

Odrahn,

Are you joking? The PVP in this game is pretty imba (no matter what John says), and shouldn’t be taken seriously at ALL. Sure you can try it, and try to be the best you can, but honestly… this game is so far from an esport at this point it’s laughable. If you want a serious PVP experience with the feel of an MMO, try a MOBA like LoL or DoTA 2.

I know PVP imbalance can be frustrating, but the amount of grave seriousness that you and your wife seem to put on it is disconcerting.

As a thief player, I must say that these cheesey instagib builds need a nerf. Period.

Woop woop! Good to know thief nerfs are incoming. (It’s obvious that they are, it’s just a matter of when and how… He just didn’t want to sent the entire thief community into a rage prematurely).

TBH, thieves need it. Badly. Real strategy is getting overshadowed by cheese instagib builds.

One question to you people defending backstab/PW/instagib builds:

If they’re so bad/easily countered, why are they so popular? Even high tier teams employ instagib builds (see: Raytek). The answer isn’t because it’s “LOL SUPER EZ TO COUNTER JUST BUILD DEFENZIVE NUB”… it’s because it’s fking effective.

The issue isn’t necessarily even that the build is impossible to overcome. Let’s say that, theoretically, I build for toughness, vitality, dodging, and otherwise survivability. Great. Now I can survive a thief. But now what? I’ve built my character specifically to counter these ridiculous instagib builds, and now I can barely burst at all.

My point is not that you should be able to build whatever you want and succeed. That’s another strawman argument that I’m pretty sure my fellow thieves want to use here. We’re not talking about ANY random build working… we’re talking about being forced to go a certain build as a specific reaction to the thief, who can literally kill you before you can physically react.

You guys can deny it all you want. It’s bad design, it’s not fun for anybody but the thief (and that’s arguable), and it’s overpowered. You guys can enjoy it until it gets nerfed. Until then, I’ll not put a red cent of competitive stock in this game… and that’s a kitten shame, if you ask me.

“If I am using a well prepared tactic, which is also quite tricky to execute, I deserve to one-shot a clueless newbie.”

@Dagins, you’re using a straw-man argument here. There’s nothing ANYONE can do about these backstab builds in .3 seconds. Nobody can react that fast, and in teamfights nobody can be watching the entire map to make sure a thief isn’t sneaking up on them. Even survivability-spec classes can’t live through it unless they’re a Guardian.

If you admit the only viable strategy is to run for your life or call for a 2v1 situation vs. these builds, I think you just forfeited the argument.

@Fury,
No, it’s NOT a long CD. It’s a one minute CD. That’s absolutely nothing. If a game lasts 15 minutes, that’s 15 absolutely free kills. That’s not okay.

You guys need to stop trying to defend these builds with semantics. The truth of the matter is you can instagib ANYONE, newb or not, with a 20k+ burst in <1 sec.

Hey guys. Just a quick question for you. I’m currently a thief main since launch and I’m experiencing the instantaneous, 100-0 death that thieves can cause in PVP. Against squishies (other thieves, mesmers, ele’s with no defenses up, glass cannon warriors) there is literally nothing they can do, as the sequence happens in less than one second.

I gotta say that, while it’s fun instagibbing people for a few hours, I don’t personally find it conducive to a real “PVP” environment. It’s more like “P-v-theirhealthbar,” because there is absolutely no way the human mind can react in under one second with latency involved.

WAIT! I can hear your little thievy minds thinking, “OMG NOOB L2P IF THIEVES DIDN’T DO THAT WE’D SUCK!” Well, that’s an interesting point, isn’t it? Does our class really need to revolve around a skilless scenario where one person gets stomped before he/she can react? If it does, dear thiefy friends, I think we need a major overhaul.

I’m not asking for resilience or Cataclysm-esque health pools (for you non-WoW players, those were things that made EVERYONE survive much longer). A 5-10 second fight sounds perfectly reasonable to me: There can be reaction and counterplay on both sides. It’s just… really? 1 second?

“WAIT! THIEVES R SUPOZED 2 ASSINATE PPL! ITS THE CONCEPT OF THE CLAS!” Okay, fine: And warriors are supposed to instagib people because their concept is chopping people in half with swords. Fact is, the game isn’t balanced around “concepts,” it’s balanced around design. And the design of the thief class is, I believe, fundamentally flawed.

Imagine, for a second, that instead of instagibbing that person, you left them with 10% hp. Now, a few more attacks will take them down, so it’s a matter of 2-5 seconds. You’re still a crazy ninja assassin who can burst people like nobody’s business. But that 2-5 seconds allows for some real skill, some competition in this thing we call PVP. And that, for my money, is what it’s about: 2 people trying to outplay each other, not one person pounding their keyboard because they’ve been killed with absolutely no counterplay available to them.

I fear without a change, these 100-0 in 1 second builds will dominate PVP until there are nothing left but thieves and maybe the occasional Guardian.

My 2g.

Yyyyyyyup. Disappointed that there are no straight up Ele buffs. It’s such a pathetic profession balance-wise. :/

@rmBossa,

I would say D/D’s advantage is an admittedly cheaper and more “on-call” stealth. (5 energy, a single ability, more reliable).

“As Once you use Black powder then Heartseeker, you are stealthed on the Leap attack and the heart seeker has 100% chance to crit, but because the attack gave you stealth it doesn’t kick you out, so you follow it up with a backstab.”

:O !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now THAT is awesome. If only I hadn’t blown all my money on sylvari cultural armor, I could buy my trait book and actually spend my points. :P

Also, I disagree that the spec isn’t good at fighting multiple mobs in PVE. You just take out the ranged first. With Black Powder, you can sit in a field of melee mobs all day and laugh while they fumble after you. Unless they’re mole-people. Then it’s GG.

Hi guys,

So after much D/D : Shortbow play on my thief (he’s 43 atm), I just tried out a pistol offhand today… and it’s amazing. Black Powder, AA for a couple of seconds, Heartseeker for stealth (Heartseeker + Blackpowder = Stealth), roll behind, backstab, repeat. If you pace it right, you can keep going indefinitely with almost no danger to yourself due to blinds and dodge rolls (that’s not to mention your heal ability and Shadow Refuge).

My perception is that a lot of people won’t like this because it takes 9 initiative to stealth (BPowder + HS)… but the thing is, you’re not spending 9 init JUST to stealth. You’re paying 9 initiative for 2-3 seconds of blind field, a heartseeker strike, AND a stealth. That’s a heck of a lot more than Cloak and Dagger can say.

What are your impressions? What do you think a good build would be for this purpose (primarily PVE)? What uses do you think it has in PVP?

My initial thoughts on PVP would be to build it just like any other backstab build. Backstab bursters don’t use Death Blossom or Bouncing Dagger anyway, and this build comes with a Smoke field and an interrupt! (Not to mention the potential for infinite stealth with Black Powder + Cluster Bomb…………..)

Thoughts?

This isn’t a criticism, just a question: Are you mostly using auto-attacks for damage? Doesn’t that get boring? I mean, I didn’t see you use your 3 or 4 skills at all… maybe the occasional Cloak and Dagger. Is it boring?

Yyyyyyyyyyyyep.

I’m so sick of using a shortbow I could puke.

And this game is so in need of balance tweaks that, while I love a lot about it, I can hardly motivate myself to play it at all any more.

This is awesome. Not very effective or easy to use, but awesome nonetheless. Nice work!

IIIIIIIIIIII haven’t seen any real buffs for mesmers/guardians. And the only thing that got nerfed for thieves was the stupid Heartseekerx10000 build. That’s not that big a deal.

My problem with my thief main isn’t that it might get nerfed (that’s stupid, and imo thieves are probably in need of some balance adjustments), it’s that the thief playstyle isn’t what I hoped for. Many of the skills feel awkward or stilted, while WvW and sPVP seem to be “Switch to Shortbow or die.” I’ll probably quit for those reasons.

I’m in the same boat here, but I don’t think I’m willing to risk it. From what I’ve seen around here and in game, ele’s are well-designed in general, but poorly balanced.

Oh man. I’m a total noob and even I facepalmed.

I see people all the time in videos and etc. just using Infiltrator’s Arrow to jump onto cliffs, towers, and other high terrain. When I try to do this, all it does is teleport me a little closer to the terrain; it won’t let me cross any gaps or change elevation in any way?

First of all, how are people doing this?

Second of all, why is it not just in the code that you can cross gaps and change elevations with IA?

One thing I’m personally disappointed in are the elite skills… ALL the elite skills. Thieves’ Guild is sweet, but spin-to-win and Basilisk are extremely boring; the latter of which is ineffective in many situations.

When I think “thief elite skill,” I think of some crazy maneuver from ninja legend, like controlling/becoming a shadow or dashing around everywhere going crazy for a few seconds. Instead we get… spinning, a 1s stun, and a pet skill? Meh. :/

Signed. This map is the most imbalanced thing I’ve ever seen. Imagine playing Dominion on League of legends, but only the top node had a turret. Or 8 turrets. Guess what the only important node on the map would be?

A-net, PLEASE remove the sharks. They were a decent idea on paper, but in reality they ruin my life. T_T

A lot of these responses are confusing. You guys do realize you can only have 3 utility skills on your bar at once, right? The whole “Use scorpion wire and shadowstep to close gaps and blinding powder and shadow refuge and then maybe a devourer venom to immobilize…” makes sense if you’re making the argument that there are spells in existence that immobilize, shadowstep, and etc. But obviously they can’t all be equipped at once…

I don’t know. The general tenor is “I get it and you don’t, neener neener neener.” You call my OP a thinly disguised QQ, I call yours a thinly disguised circle jerk. Who says the art of conversation is dead, right?!?! I’m done wasting energy on people who want to do nothing but put words in my mouth and call me a baddie. I hope you all get what you deserve someday. Peace.

All I will say to the trolls and flamers is this: Put your money where your mouth is. IF I’m such a baddy, THEN why don’t you explain why you think I’m wrong and what can be done to overcome the perceived “clunkiness” of the class. If you can’t do that (and so far, not a single one of you has), maybe you should re-think how great you are while you’re fapping that kitten, hmm? In the meanwhile, I’ve reported and blocked you appropriately.

To the rest of you: One thing I’m struggling with is getting kited to death in PVP. Since every class has such high mobility, I’ll often miss a Death Blossom even if I begin the animation right next to my enemy. I mean, it has to be PERFECT—-them standing still, no endurance to dodge roll, and no evasive skills off cooldown—-to land the 4 stacks of bleed. Even with Steal and Infiltrator’s Signet, I can’t seem to stick to anyone. There’s always a slowing field or a cripple or an immobilize to ruin my day.

Also, is it just me, or do thieves have only one way to get rid of cripple (Roll for Initiative) that’s otherwise a lackluster spell?

I just can’t back off of CnD being unreliable. “SET UP FOR IT LOL” say the trolls… Right. How? Your enemy can dodge roll, stun you, teleport, and a host of other things that are OUT OF YOUR CONTROL. “But wait ’till their cooldowns are up, then strike!” …Ever face a mesmer who’s used all his cooldowns on you? Oh. Ok. Then you’ve been DEAD.

In fact, positioning is one of the worst things about being a melee-oriented thief. It could be that I should just be using ranged weapons a TON more. I’m open to that possibility. Like I said, I’m not an expert. Anyway… It’s extremely difficult (read: unreliable) to try and even get a backstab off on your enemy, because there’s just so much movement and because stealth’s talented “remove condition” only pulses once every 3 seconds and removes a RANDOM condition from you. So if I’m poisoned, crippled, and bleeding and I want to CnD and then backstab my opponent, I only have a 1/3 chance of actually getting behind them.

The Glass Cannon That Didn’t Fire
Without the above “blow everything and spam skill X” strategy, thieves have absolutely nothing going for them. I’ve tried every conceivable build to no avail. I’ve tried stacking survivability and utility skills… and did absolutely no damage. I’ve tried being evasive and Traiting into Acrobatics and such… and did no damage, AND died in 2 seconds.

From my experience (and I could be missing something here), the thief is just not survivable enough. This largely results from the stealth problem listed above. “But Paw, mesmers and elementalists are super squishy too!” Right… but squishiness =/= survivability. While mesmer clones are usually easy to distinguish, mesmers have enough utility skills (slows, stuns, confusion stacks, etc.) to keep themselves alive while still doing silly damage. Also, ever faced a water/earth elementalist? They can quite literally tank 3 or 4 people for a minute or more with their shields, mist form, heals, and crowd control.

What’s missing from our kit? A real way to INSTANTLY dodge damage. Even during Death Lotus, for example, the thief will catch damage from AoE, those fking spin moves everyone and their mother has, and condition damage… and that’s IF the target stands perfectly still so you can keep using Death Lotus and actually HIT them.

TLDR: Our utility survival skills, evasion and stealth, aren’t effective enough.

Possible solutions:
-Fix Flanking Strike/HSS/Death Lotus/etc. to actually STICK ON your target so that they can be used properly as both damage and survival tools.
-Give stealth an AoE damage reduction. I’m sick of casting Shadow refuge only to have ele’s/rangers/engineers pelt the relatively small circle with area damage and kill me.

Nobody Poisoned the Water Hole
All I can say about poisons is that they don’t “feel” right. A poison that lasts for 2 weapon strikes is just… lame. Most of them aren’t that powerful, and have extremely long cooldowns. I would rather the poisons actually be WEAKER and last longer (10+ charges). I won’t even mention the abomination that is Basalisk Venom.

TLDR: Buff poisons.kitten

*
Conclusion
*
Guys, look: These are my opinions and impressions after having played my thief for a decent amount of time. I’m not an expert, I’m not a gladiator, and I’m not even level 80. I just came here to talk about how the class feels to me, what my expectations were for a thief-rouge-assassin-ninja-type class, and why those expectations were decimated as I advanced in level and tried PVP. Feel free to disagree, but please know that if you flame or spam one-liners like “lol he thinks thieves are UP what a scrub L2P noob” I’m just going to report you, ignore you, and move on with the thread. I would like this to turn into a good discussion (I’m even open to an advice thread)… But if it doesn’t, I’ll just quit my thief and quietly move on.

Hello, my name is Pawstruck and I’m incredibly unsatisfied with the design of the Theif class. Before you rage, spam “L2p, theives OP noob,” or any of that, take a read through ALL (yes, ALL) of the text in this post, and decide for yourself what an intelligent response would be. I would like to hear from my fellow thieves and possibly get some Anet feedback on these issues. Please note that the following are MY IMPRESSIONS from playing the game, feel free to disagree but please do not flame/troll. 4chan forums are <—————— that way.

I started a thief because I wanted to be a stealthy assassin. A FKING NINJA. I saw beta footage of thieves dancing around their targets, shadowstepping all over the place, and generally dealing (wait for it…) TONS OF DAMAGE. After 33 levels, 20% world completion, and hours of PVP with my thief, I can honestly say that I was mislead.

When Stealth Isn’t Stealthy
I cannot express to you how much it disappointed me to realize that stealthing was so inefficient in this game. Cloak and Dagger is impossible to hit in PVP due to the incredibly mobile nature of EVERY CLASS compared to the thief. It’s not a skill you can use in a pinch or… well… ever, really. It costs a ton of initiative (even if you miss!!!) and is just really clunky in general. Your healing skill that stealths you has a long cast time and can be interrupted. Shadow Refuge rarely seems to work correctly, and you get popped out of it for doing anything but just standing there.

The biggest problem with all this is that I don’t FEEL stealthy. I feel like I can go invulnerable for 3 seconds at a time on occasion. No, I didn’t play a rogue in WoW; I played a feral druid. At first I thought the in-and-out stealth system of GW2 looked promising, but after experiencing it for myself I can honestly say it feels awkward, clunky, and terrible.

An aside: I was told by one friend on the opposite PVP team that stealthing does not make you invisible in PVP, but rather camouflages you. He claimed that he could see me in stealth. I have yet to experience this phenomenon versus other thieves, but if it’s true I will definitely quit the class.

Possible solutions:
-Create a utility skill that simply and instantly stealths you for a moderate period of time (5+sec).
-Remove the cast time from the heal skill.
-Change Cloak and Dagger to cloak you whether or not the skill hits.

Gimme Less Gimmick
Heartseeker spam was stupid. And guess what? It got nerfed. Rightly. And guess what other thieves are doing now? Coming up with other stupid, spammy builds designed to 100-0 people in three seconds (Pistol Whip spam anyone?). People will complain, and that will get nerfed too. RIGHTLY.

There is no doubt that thieves should be bursty. LOTS of classes are bursty (why are Guardians impossible to kill yet can pretty much global me?). But piling all your 60 second utility skills on top of each other and then spamming a single skill until you’re out of Initiative is NOT ideal. It’s the result of poor design.

See, there are no combo points here. Fine. There’s no “rotation.” …Slightly less fine, but workable. But the reason people are piling all their cooldowns into one skill is that half the weapon skills are underwhelming. You won’t get “combo’d” by a theif because Flanking Strike is worthless and he’d rather use auto-attacks. THAT IS NOT OKAY.

TLDR: Spamming moves is the result of poor design with regard to thief weapon skills, and we will continue the cat-and-mouse game of “how many of Skill X can I spam when I pop Haste” until a real re-work occurs.

Possible Solutions:
-Take a look at some of the more worthless Theif skills. Then buff them.
-Change Haste.