Guild Wars 2

This thread is accurate and enlightening.

I don’t feel sorry for necros for a second.

The point is to queue into skyhammer and rage.

Xunleashed.5271:

We need some must-have traits baseline that’s for sure.
It’s doesn’t look hard to achieve, for example they could:

- Elemental attunement baseline SELF ONLY – applies to allies with trait

-Merge elements traits 15 with 5, distribute evasive arcana on trait slot 15 of every element

- Move renewing stamina to a trait 5, like guardian and mesmers have. I don’t understand why it has not be done yet, mesmers have clones on dodge no internal cd and guardians have 1x scaling 240 range heal no internal cd.

And more:
- Redesign useless traits, merge effects, give fire something special

- Redesign utilities, stop nerfing cantrips but make something else viable, giving synergy with new traits. For example, glyphs need complete rewamp; conjured weapons need a lower cd like 30 seconds or be more like eng kits; arcane spells need a look too (arcane power is not arcane power, give it a +% damage boost for X seconds)

- Redesign some weapon skills: Every weapon set needs mobility, staff is ok with burning retreat; RTL IS NOT OK, revert it to 20-25 seconds cd. Focus needs a big redesign and needs a movement skill like other weapons to be effective in pvp/wvw.

And further, increase every single healing spell base value, reduce scaling so we are not forced into healing power but we don’t become immortal with high healing power.

I like all of this.

I’ve had the same idea of reducing arcane spell damage and giving them elemental surge as default. Solves the problem of elementalists 1 shotting people with extreme instant burst and increases the skill cap all at once.

I used elemental surge for a few months at release until switching to evasive arcana and just a few months ago I switched back to elemental surge just for funzies and I was wow’d that I ever used it as well as I did lol. Definitely skillful.

Avead.5760:

Btw fresh air is fun and a good trait.. 15 air minor is your problem And you can do whatever you want with diamond skin.Its just bad in all sense of the word

Agreed, that’s why I said once these things become base-line it can be worked around quite easily, especially now that I think about it since your putting ideas in my head ^ ^

sorrow.2364:

Phantaram.1265:

If you take the trait Fresh Air, you are a glass cannon. If I could take Fresh Air in a regular build of course I would, it’s a ridiculously strong trait, and that’s why people drop the survivability for it because it increases there burst. Any Fresh Air ele expecting to stand back and do sustained damage won’t be happy when the enemy team dives you and you insta die.

I’m running Fresh Air with D/D and Soldier Amulet and Berserker Amulet.
I wouldn’t call it glass cannon, neither I would say that I insta-die once the enemy team focus me.

On the other hand, Fresh Air helps a lot to have Air Attunement always ready when you’re waiting for other skills in the other attunements to recharge and you want to put pressure autoattacking.

It is, as I said, a good supplement when trying to bring down someone putting pressure on him when I’ve already used the burst rotation, which of course implies swapping to Air too. Point is that it isn’t useful only when bursting but also when you’re pressuring someone on low health, since it is pretty much always available.

I would call it glass cannon. I agree the trait is good for sustained damage. My point is that you simply cannot do that because you will die. Honestly if you are marching into fights as D/D with Fresh Air and surviving then something is wrong with your opponents.

sorrow.2364:

Disagree that Fresh Air is useful only in glass cannon/burst builds. It is also extremely useful for sustained damage because of the frequent swapping to Air. Probably one of the best designed trait of the elementalist, fitting the Air Magic traitline design while not being a must-go in any situation.

If you take the trait Fresh Air, you are a glass cannon. If I could take Fresh Air in a regular build of course I would, it’s a ridiculously strong trait, and that’s why people drop the survivability for it because it increases there burst. Any Fresh Air ele expecting to stand back and do sustained damage won’t be happy when the enemy team dives you and you insta die. Because of this if you take Fresh Air, you are playing an all in style where you try to burst people down before they do the same to you. Thieves do this 10x better.

We Elementalists through out the first year or so of GW2s existence learned about traits that were crucial to our survivability. Traits like Healing Ripple, Evasive Arcana, and Elemental Attunement. These weren’t choices we were making. These traits became a part of the class and were so powerful we had to take them or our class simply did not operate. With them we were the jack-of-all-trades. Without them we would die to just about anything. People just accepted that we had no diversity trait wise and that this was how we were gonna play the class until balance changes were made to do something about it.

The direction balance has been taken is to provide equally powerful alternatives to these traits like Fresh-Air or Diamond Skin. When we take either of these we become a completely different class that is single minded and not anything like what we had played for nearly a year. Diamond Skin is for 1v1 against condition classes and Fresh-Air is a glass cannon do or die kind of thing, basically a thief without survivability.

The direction balance should have been taken is to make traits like Healing Ripple, Evasive Arcana, and Elemental Attuenement base-line abilities that all Elementalists would have regardless of traits. Each of these traits are directly affected by your attunement cooldowns so the Arcana trait line passive would still be a necessity. In my opinion attunements should just have a base cooldown of 10 seconds and the Arcana trait line passive would just be something entirely different.

From this point diversity and balance become the easiest thing in the world to work around because you don’t have to make really powerful alternatives to make people drop what made their class operate in the first place. No longer would traits be a necessity to make the class operate. Adding one trait that makes us a single minded zombie would be a thing of the past.

It’s not too late in my opinion. If these traits were made base-line something like Fresh-Air could still be worked with, especially with how absurdly powerful all the other classes have become. Diamond Skin should just be removed.

What are your thoughts on this GW2 community?

It’s not popular.

Leuca.5732:

Phantaram.1265:

Can’t give back what was never there.

Oh snap.

For real though there has never been a reason to play dagger over scepter in my opinion.

Back when Auramancer was overpowered there was certainly a reason to.

This fad never caught on in EU. Trap ranger mostly didn’t catch on in EU either. NA was very trendy. It was like whatever PZ ran everyone ran, and PZ just so happened to play Dagger ele and trap ranger.

Can’t give back what was never there.

Oh snap.

For real though there has never been a reason to play dagger over scepter in my opinion.

They have a passive signet heal and can turn invincible to everything twice. They are practically warriors on steroids.

Actually we all think it can be balanced it’s just not us at the wheel is it?

First let’s make it clear that class balance isn’t what everyone’s talking about, because in this game class balance has always been pretty great really. The gameplay just needs improved because it’s not so great right now.

We all have our visions of where the game could go, and it would be drastic changes at this point.

Maybe during January and February earlier this year the game could have just used tweaks but it is WAY beyond that now. Practically every class has many layers of changing I would do.

Darnis.4056:

There won’t be a dev response because there has already been a dev response.

Lol, this is why I still come to these forums sometimes. So funny.

My favorite thing people say in ele threads is “I remember when dagger/dagger was really good”

Please stop. Scepter has always been better.

Isn’t it great that such a well designed class with amazing mechanics sees zero play while ranger just presses 1 on shortbow.

It’s really awesome.

Dahkeus.8243:

Why would a thief want to use a sword in a post Dec 10th world anyways? Haha!

S/D thief is undoubtedly still one of the strongest specs, just run different utilities and you can still get out of pretty much any sticky situation.

Yeah I did moa just because it can win and end team fights cause you didn’t randomly dodge/aegis it, sorta like stealth openers. I know it’s power xeph used it all the time when helseth used timewarp lol.

People could still singularly stealth the mesmer then everyone kinda stays back until he stealth moas the guard, just wanna prevent stuff like that.

Mesmers pretty much don’t use moa anymore because if they did they would just die to a lot of things.

Me and denshee honor ele’d against eachothers teams tonight quite a few times and the rest of our teams are playing pretty old school stuff like back stab thief, mesmer, engi, guards, etc, BASICALLY NO S/D THIEF OR WARRIORS and I don’t even think anyone had necro.

Basically, we had fun, not something you can experience every day in this game.

So I came up with the idea of having maybe 1 scheduled day a week where a bunch of players meet up on a private server and play by our own rules. We could even have a tournament or make it scheduled more often and of course people can organize it amongst themselves you know I’m just kinda ranting at this point. You get the idea.

Anyways, we’d come up with a list of things we want to ban to make the game more fun. Obviously everyone has different opinions on this so I may just talk to some people I know and we’ll come up with a list ourselves but I’m curious what everyone would have on their lists so I’ll start off with some things off the top of my head for every class.

Thief: No Sword
Warrior: No signet, no longbow, no hammer, no mace, so tempted to ban other things but I dunno
Necro: No dhuumfire, maybe no Weakening shroud/Terror?
Ranger: No elite spirit, no moving spirits, I guess thats all, just stay away from this class it is no fun to play against or with in general! (just imo, obviously the class is not banned)
Ele: No Diamond Skin just out of spite! Maybe no clerics amulet? If all these changes made far point clerics amulet ele viable again I just wouldn’t wanna play against it or as it, no fun.
Mesmer: No Moa, No condi amulets, really what kinda scum just stealths all day and lets there auto attacks and AI slowly(quickly) kill there opponent with zero timing or skill at all.
Engi: No condi immunity, not even an I win button, you just select it when you create your engi for the first time ever and you can’t lose to a condi class, many skill, such finesse, wow
Guardian: The only class that can do what it wants I think. I can’t come up with anything frustrating that a guardian can do.

And the hardest rule to enforce of all: No stealth openers, No shadow refuging or smoke blast finisher comboing to go in for 3 man gank kinda crap. I can’t stress this rule enough, this kinda thing officially sucks the fun out of everything when a team fight is decided not even in the first second, it’s like the first 0.5 seconds and it’s often all down to if your guard gets a lucky dodge. It’s like starcraft cheese all over again. I didn’t scout the hidden double starport and he quadruple cloak bansheed me, what a pro, I applaud that kinda play, really.

This is obviously very opinionated like I said. The power meta was a blast for eles, thiefs and mesmers but I don’t think engis have that great of a time in it especially when the eles plays glass, but it’s far better than right now I’m sure.

I don’t even know how much longer I’ll have time to play GW2 but people should just do this without me of course, it’s just way more fun.

Going to bed I’ll check on this thread tomorrow.

Step 1. Make the game better, people have repeated over and over how to do this. This will not be enough to bring people back by itself but it needs to happen before the next steps.

Step 2. Something to grab peoples attention to make people come back/get new blood. This could be anything from an absolutely huge patch advertised like an expansion, or an expansion itself, to some kind of regular tournament that pays out money people can compete for. The patch has to have something to do with Spvp obviously.

I think that is it really.

Hammerguard.9834:

People are over-exaggerating about elementalists, they’re very strong. Thieves can be very good once people get out of the stupid full zerker mentality.

Rangers are just bad. All their weapons are awkward and their utilities aren’t so hot either.

I hope this is a troll.

“The build I would love to play”

Omg my heart, it hurts!

I remember playing this comp nearly undefeated for a month and then the necro patch hit and all of our dreams were shattered.

I think this thread should be stickied though.

I think it’s pretty clear how this trait can be abused. Engineers do it already. Typically condition classes are the dominant 1v1 classes on the outer nodes with the only exception really being warrior and sometimes mesmer. If you have condi immunity in any form, you can then become a dominant 1v1 outer noder.

I remember the days of ele vs mesmer on outer nodes and the outcome was determined by skill. Gone are those days, just spam 1 on your shortbow or be immune to whatever the enemy does. You won congrats!

Here is the two outcomes of this trait.
1. Nobody uses it and it’s just taking up space
2. An ele build comes out that 1v1s outer nodes that is just as braindead as the rest of them

You can exclude me from ever partaking in #2

Signed. Nobody wants more passive. The fun skilled builds can always exist but when the passive nooby friendly traits are as strong as “be invincible to X” well… nobody is gonna play the skilled builds.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-k34;2R0kT0-57N-Z0;9;5J-JT;159;246-45ALN;4sV2DsV2D4BH

The defining ele build, the way it was meant to be played. Back in the day this build used to do it all, survive, burst, support and heal teammates. You name it this build could do it.

Alas, the days have come when every other classes damage melts even the bunker eles to death in seconds. You can only imagine what this spec will suffer. I warn you this spec is not for the feint of heart. The braindead zombie specs of this world hunger for no other meat as much as ele flesh.

The warriors have grown hides that not even our lightning strikes can pierce, being nigh unkillable while only wearing loin cloths as their bodies seem to regenerate in front of our eyes despite our elemental onslaught.

Use at your own risk.

Here’s how you fix Eles necessity for the arcana traitline in pvp.

Evasive arcana baseline spell – You have to do this if you want anything not 30 arcana to not get 1 shot. Simply put its a 9.5 second cooldown 2k heal. An absolutely huge deal.
Make the attunement you swap out of go on a 10(or 9.5 or w/e the base is now) second base cooldown.
Make the other attunements you didn’t swap out of go on a 3 second cooldown.
Make the Arcana passive reduce the cooldown of the other attunements you didn’t swap out of to the now baseline 1.25 seconds.

felivear.1536:

Evan Lesh.3295:

The updates exclusive to PvE and PvP are hard to compare. Almost all PvP features require very intensive programmer and server support like solo queue, matchmaking, custom arenas, spectator mode, etc. Living story updates leverage existing technology to advance the story and expand content with new mobs, crafting recipes, dungeons, etc. PvP has few areas expandable by content; the main feature being maps which we release regularly. Balance updates affect all parts of the game and don’t come out for one any faster for one than the other.

Your team throws around the words “difficult” and “you don’t understand the amount of work” a lot, so I’ll counter with this:

If I was a child and I had to wear hand-me-down clothes, shoes purchased from a thrift shop and on my 16th birthday, I don’t get a car. If you tell me “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money for those things”. I could understand that and just figure that my parents would do it if they had the dough.

Now, if during all of this and the excuses my sister was wearing designer clothing, shoes, and on her 16th birthday got a new car, I think I would have a reaaaaaal hard time with that.

That’s what’s happening here. I’m tired of hearing, “I’m sorry son, we just don’t have the money” when my brat sister is walking around this place looking like Paris Hilton.

Felivear you are nr1 poster, all your analogies I’ve read over the past months fit so well lol.

Helseths analysis is pretty spot on. Everything needs nerfed to the ground because the affects that such high damage and broken survivability mechanics have caused on the games overall play has been extremely negative.

Just make a trial account of your own and have fun over the weekend. That’s what I’m gonna do! Some people are bound to make a trial account smurfing and will try hard so losing to any of them will equal huge rating drops. Not healthy for your soul.

Most of you have your head stuck in MMO deathmatch. There can still be objectives in deathmatch. Think Halo, objectives galore in the form of power-ups and weapon spawns. I think as long as there are objectives most game modes can work in gw2.

Without objectives people just kinda run around the map like headless chickens and there would be a lot of stand offs because nobody would want to initiate the fight.

Just look at counter strike, it’s mostly just a deathmatch but the objective is needed so teams have a reason to engage each other.

I’m personally not a huge fan of locking people into a small circle room and just having them fight to the death and also don’t think it will work with a lot of the mechanics in this game.

I can say that if we were still going to pax I’d be all for balancing before the tournament. Other games use older patches for tournaments so they can continue balancing even during the tournaments. This game doesn’t have that and continued balancing is far more important than 10 players playing for 10k. This tournament isn’t even really the beginning as it isn’t community driven, it’s just a booster arena net has provided. The community will decide whether this game grows or not and right now the game is not good enough. When it is good enough the community will get behind it and we will have ourselves a supported competitive game.

So while not balancing in the tournament could have helped the teams have a fair game for 10k, I think the teams would realize that the game needs growth and the 7.5k or 2.5k their team will earn is not sustainable without a good enough game.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

This situation, as you have surmised, is probably going to be the hardest to fill. It will be filled by any players who queued solo for Team Arena, presumably because they want to climb both the Solo and the Team Arena leaderboards, despite not having a team. It’s not clear yet how many of these types of players there will be, relative to the number of 4 player teams queuing. So we’ll have to see how feasible this is long term and make adjustments if needed.

Sounds like a good reason to add an unranked queue someday!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Solo-queue-on-the-way-Unranked-queue-next/first#post2555750

Ixl Super Ixl.7258:

1- GW2 Does not have the player base for this. Team Queue will have 30-60 mins queues for sure, unless it’s prime time.
2- There is already Custom arenas for this kind of thing, if you want to scrim just use custom arena…
3- Positive thing is that some players will actually start playing on their main all the time and stop hiding behind second account for months " Symbolic". Which means less people will buy second accounts= less money for anet. so I doubt that will ever happen.

1. Fair point, but I think it will increase the population of spvp immediately.
2. Friends usually don’t care for scrimming, we just wanna hop into a game and start having fun.
3. I don’t advocate anyone doing this, even my teammate symbolic, but I wouldn’t be naming other players when you are guilty of the same thing. Will definitely help keep people on there main account which is a positive all around though good point.

All good points. Maybe Unranked isn’t as wanted by the community as I initially thought, at least for now due to population, but I still think it would be great and could be pretty high on a theoretical priority list.

Chase.8415:

Tournaments are scaled with a hidden rating that is visible on the leaderboards. If you were the worst players in the game, you would face someone with the same skill level s yourself.

Why are people so worked up on losing ranking? It’s not like you win anything for being a high rank on the leaderboards. The only people who recognize you is other top 1000 players

It seems to make a difference in other games even if it is almost all subconscious just because the queue is named “Unranked” or “Ranked”.

DevO.9854:

there already is non competitive game mode its call server pvp.

Private servers are great and fun to mess around in, but it takes time to organize a game with 10 people especially if you are only a group of 3 or 4 friends. An Unranked queue is so much easier and faster.

We, the community, can’t stop asking for things from Anet just because we are getting the good stuff now can we?

Groups of friends who don’t want to play competitively still don’t have anywhere to go except for hotjoins which is very unfriendly to groups of friends. A queue similar to the league of legends normal queue sounds perfect.

For those unaware the LoL normal queue still has hidden elo that no one can see so you still get matched with similarly skilled people but it is taken much less seriously by the community because there is no rankings or anything. It’s really the perfect place to go for groups of friends that don’t care to play competitively. I personally have like 600 normal games in league of legends and like 70 ranked or something because it’s just a game I didn’t care to take too seriously and I’m sure many people feel the same way about GW2. I also think it helps unite the casual and competitive player base because they are all playing the same gametype in the same way.

Unranked queue would be perfect for this. Think League of Legends normal queue. People eat that kind of stuff up.

I think it actually seems fairly obvious the developers meant it to be for elites like signet of rage of basilisk venom. I can’t imagine someone making this rune set and not thinking of those elites.

Anyways, lets think about this rune set clearly. It’s strong on two classes, warrior and thief, mostly s/d thief. One class is pretty balanced but the other is probably too strong. IMO just nerf the class its too strong on and not the rune set, because it seems obvious that this rune set is meant to be played on classes and specs with these elites.

Something Anet could have in mind in the future is adding more rune sets with very similar affects so warriors and thieves have more choices.

Well, I can’t say I like the fact that you can log out into whatever character you like before the game starts. People are going to be going crazy with character switching on skyhammer. I for one will be letting other people handle the nightmare that is the cannon room, I’ll be going for nodes.

Skyhammer will be fine. It’s solo queue and it will still have a leader board, but there is no reason to take it that seriously.

Keep in mind my tier list is made for this meta, small changes can bring certain classes up to A tier very suddenly and be great classes.

S Tier:
=Necromancer
=S/D Thief
-Spirit Ranger

A Tier:
+Guardian
-Engineer

B Tier:
=Warrior
= Elementalist
-Mesmer

Mesmer is probably the most volatile, the second a team wouldn’t run a s/d thief and necro it’d probably be S Tier lol

Saltare.5789:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, here’s the deal. I’m hearing different things from everyone I talk to.

1. Necro DS is too much and should be brought down
2. Necro damage is too much and should be brought down
3. Necro survivability is bad

“DS is too much”

It’s not when you consider our complete lack of evade, vigor, block, and invulnerability. You cannot heal in deathshroud. Not to mention we have terrible mobility, and you have to take the time to build life force, which is hard at the beginning of the match or as a bunker.

“Damage is too much”

Dhuumfire is what everyone is complaining about, yes? What necros want to know is why it was even implemented. No one running the standard condi build asked for burning. The specs that need burning are power/hybrid builds, and they aren’t about to put 30 points into spite to get it.

Condi necros didn’t need burning – you gave us torment which is enough to protect our bleeds, and our damage was fine. What we needed was better mobility OR access to vigor, block, invuln, or evade.

“Survivability is bad”

Against anyone who knows what they’re doing, IT IS. Remember what I said above? No block. No evade. No vigor. No invuln. A stunbreaker utility that isn’t going to be chosen over Spectral Armor now. A distinct lack of mobility/escapes.

All someone has to do against a necro is stunlock or assist train them to death. I honestly don’t see why it takes several 1vx videos to see the survivability problem.

Right now DS is not too much because damage in this game is crazy and it’s almost impossible to get the damage off of you (evade spamming thief, 1200 range necros, shortbow spamming rangers) Once some of this damage is nerfed and less reliably applied people will feel hopeless against the new necromancers deathshroud. Some classes already do like elementalist.

Your analysis on burning is spot on.

However your analysis on survivability I will disagree with. Necromancer survivability is absolutely higher than most of these classes that have access to the vigor and invulnerabilities you are talking about. Especially elementalist as I have direct experience with both against top teams in this meta, and I survive way longer on my necromancer. That isn’t to say I don’t get melted to stealth openers at the beginning of the game, but who doesn’t get melted by stealth openers? Even guardians get instagibbed by it there isn’t any stopping it reliably and necromancers actually have a chance if the other team doensn’t coordinate right and I pop plague form as I see the damage start hitting, which has happened.

All of these changes are very good in my opinion except for the thief ones. IMO something else should be changed about thieves.

Great notes overall though.

Caffynated.5713:

I felt like necro was mostly OK before this patch. They were the strongest class in game by a small margin, but they had some strong counters. Their lack of mobility was made up for with their great built in survivability even in a glass cannon spec. They could melt you if you didn’t focus fire them, but they couldn’t handle being trained or chain CC’d.

Now, they have just as much damage (terror nerf isn’t even equivalent to 1 stack of bleeding) but we’re juggernauts in death shroud with life force coming out of our ears.

The one major drawback to dhuumfire + terror specs was their poor life force generation. It kept them in check by limiting their ability to use death shroud for attack and defense. The buff to base mark size freed up the points needed to get soul marks (and of course the bonus spectral armor) and coupled with the increased life force generation from spectrals, dhuumfire glass cannons now have an abundance of life force. Couple that with the bug fix to DS ability to soak damage, and it has more than doubled the survivability of a “glass” cannon that was already fairly stout to begin with.

I think this is a pretty accurate analyzation of what has happened between the last 2 patches. +1 Caffynated!

Buffing necromancer damage to what it was may not have been the right decision because it didn’t affect necromancer playstyle much just made them viable through sheer damage. Now with 20 in soul reaping + spectral armor buff + the new deathshroud necromancers playstyle is exactly where it should be but now they have the high damage that got implemented before.

So I think what happens when we nerf the damage a bit is that we have necromancers with a proper playstyle but is moved more toward balance.

Thanks for the kind words Allie! Glad you have provided these forums with some transparency and love lately <3

djooceboxblast.9876:

snip

Djooce! good post. I love your suggestions and also agree that weakening dhuumfire to something not so crazy could open up the possibility for more builds like you said 0/30/10/0/30 or even 0/30/20/0/20 and people that still want maximum pressure could still use the weaker dhuumfire. (whatever it may be changed to)

Forsaker.9213:

This patch change our DS to be able take more dmg and this is very good , necro dont have disengage skills and lacks stability so i think the whole change is good and necro from deff site should look like this but ppl who are QQing that necro now can take every burst on DS need to remember one thing , condi necro have very very low acces to gain LF.

Low access to life force? I dunno man, with double spectral armor and soul marks I am drowning in life force.

After reading most of this thread I’m gonna say that most of you are underestimating how tanky the new Death Shroud is. Just so you know Spectral armor actually regenerates your Death Shroud while you are in it now, so if you attack a death shrouded necro with spectral armor on you are practically healing him.

Bumping this thread because it is the best post this forum may ever see.

Keyon.3841:

Well, the idea behind a necromancer is to get in the fight and either die or kill.

That`s why necros got high damage and as of the last patch good sustain. They nerfed the fear and I think they should adjust the overall damage of burning in the game which is too high in my opinion.

Besides that I think it`s pretty balanced.

Position is really important when it comes to necros because if we are not careful we can still be bursted down pretty quick.

When plague is on CD and we just died and have no Life Force we are very killable.
For me it makes sense that the more you fight a necro the harder it will be.
Hard CC and high burst are our weaknesses. Most necros have 1 break stun on their utility slots.

What you suggest is to nerf all condis in this game which is impossible.

You are correct that no life force = very easy to kill necro, but with the proper build you will be swimming in life force very fast. The build being 30/20/0/0/20 with spectral armor as a utility. Necros are by no means squishy and beyond that do glass cannon level damage on top of cc and control conditions.

And I actually didn’t suggest anything. So these imaginary suggestions you say I mentioned are definitely impossible considering they are imaginary.

I’ve played necro here and there since release but I’ve played necro at least 6 hours both today and yesterday and all in scrims with other good teams, so that is my experience on necro, just thought you guys should know that, moving on!

I’d like more experienced necromancers to comment on this but I feel like the necromancer playstyle is now in a pretty good spot. I can tank a really long time with deathshroud and it feels like that’s what a necromancer should be able to do since he can’t disengage. Instead of disengaging you press your deathshroud button and people go “oh, well lets attack something else.” Which if you have played with or against the right necromancer specs is exactly what goes through your brain when the necromancer pops a 100% deathshroud, heck even 50% deathshrouds.

For how tanky I am I do way too much dps though and also have insanely good support condis through tons of chill/poison/weakness etc. and this is where I want the community to come up with some ideas on how to get necromancer right.

For me the big thing that needs to happen is a damage reduction somehow, and a quite heavy one if you ask me. All the ideas I’ve seen and or have come up with I have seen some problems in so I won’t speak about what I think should happen because I’m not sure. I’ll leave it up to the community. So come on guys come up with something to reduce necromancer dps that fits well with where arena net is taking the necromancer.

Or if you disagree and necromancers need something else changed just say it, this is how I feel though.

TLDR; necromancers playstyle is cool with tankyness instead of disengaging but does too much damage on top of all their support and cc… and tankyness, come up with a way to reduce their damage in this thread. Or other tweaks you would like. Maybe necromancers are a little too tanky? They pretty much have everything but disengage right now so I’m open to any ideas.

Edit: As other damage in this game is nerfed though(as it should be), necromancer deathshroud will surely need to be decreased, but right now there is insane amounts of damage flying around so it strangely feels almost right, I just deal way too much damage on top of it.