I see the point. The game, especially open-world WvW and dynamic events stuff, doesn’t promote any reason to even know someone’s name. Show up, mess around, leave. Cooperate or not, it’s up to you.
It’s an interesting kind of community structure. I don’t even know who made my armor. But I do know I got it at the lowest price world-wide.
This is exactly what I feel in game. Everything, from design to mechanics, is beautiful, but proportionally distant.
It’s like a situation of “the grass is always greener on the other side of the field”, except it’s not on the other side of the field. Something like that anyway.
Raiding, while not necessarily fun, is at least emotionally engaging in many other games.
You do it with more or less the same group of people. People you hate, people you like, and these are people you care about. These are people you make meaningful bonds with, at least as meaningful as it gets on the internet. When your guild clears an raid, there is this deep and lasting sense of achievement that is shared by everyone in the same guild.
In Rift, when my guild finally cleared Greenscale, and mind you, it was the easiest raid at that time and many guilds have cleared it and have it on farm, everyone was cheering hard on vent, you could feel the excitement like they were beside you in real life. Because this was an achievement, that no matter how small it was, was something a family accomplished together.
In this game, “raids” are revolving door hotels. You join in an event, kill something not very noteworthy, then leave to do the same in another. To be sure, GW2 seamlessly weaves interaction between players that other competitors on the market cannot even come close to doing.
However, the interaction in GW2 versus its competitors is like the relationship between quantity versus quality. Interaction between players are frequent, but shallow. There is no reason, aside from maybe WvW and competitive sPvP, that emotionally compels even an entire guild of players to band together to clear content.
You can achieve pretty much anything by yourself, and maybe pugging for dungeons, most players you spam in /map for dungeon clearing are skillful and humorous enough to clear many of the “farm” explorable paths.
Why would there be a need to assist a guild member or a friend to experience content? There are plenty of other people in the game with mutual goals as them, no need to go out of the way to help them. It’s not even about the tangible incentives, like gear upgrades, skins, currency or whatever, you just don’t feel emotionally rewarded for helping out because other people will come along and do it for you anyway when they want to complete that DE.
The first ever guild I joined in GW2 was a guild filled with about 150+ players. It was a glorified chatroom. People did whatever they wanted. Farming, doing events, doing spvp, doing wvw. Nobody actually did anything together for the most part. There just isn’t a compelling reason to do these together.
Another guild I used to belong to had regular WvW guild events. With each passing day, lesser people turned up.
I guess it all boils down to GW2 not reinforcing the benefits of having meaningful commitments with its content. This really suits casuals, since the playstyle of casuals is, ultimately keeping commitment down to the bare minimum – commitment is something that requires time, and effort.
The point of this thread? I don’t really know it myself. To me, there’s just something lacking in this game compared to the previous games I was in. An unscratchable itch, if you would call it. I do not hate this game, and I definitely don’t feel this game wasn’t worth more than every single cent spent, though. In the end, it’s just a different experience, and maybe simply because it’s different that it sits uncomfortably lukewarm with me.
Your thoughts?
(edited by Pikafan.3792)
The less than stellar pro-reviews have really targeted endgame being an issue
Posted by: Pikafan.3792
Since we’re comparing the overall reception of GW2 to D3, this is relevant:
Guild Wars 2: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/guild-wars-2
Diablo 3: http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iiiPay no attention to the critic reviews sections, that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about overall, and that includes users. Each game has enough user reviews to warrant each as an accurate sample size to gauge gamer satisfaction with each title. See the difference between the two games?
Inb4 “hurr durr Metacritic’s bad because I say so”
I have to point out that GW2 is a lot newer compared to D3.
The game progression and life cycle of both games are different as well.
The user reviews for D3 were hovering around “mostly positive” 2 weeks to a month after D3’s release date, so there might be a chance the average user review score for GW2 might meet the same trend of going downhill after some time.
Hence, it is only relevant to compare the statistics of two games at similar points of their life cycle rather than having the first game’s population mostly reached endgame, while the second game’s population still hovering around midgame content.
Well, if an exploit is something that grants the user an unfair advantage over others, this wouldn’t be one. The time spent putting up all those buffs could have been spent farming anyway.
More of a design oversight as opposed to an exploit.
^lol at trying to use reality to explain fantasy.
I really cracked up when I saw all that claptrap about the U.S. Army being pulled in.
Hint: a “ranger” in gw2 is whatever Anet decides it to be. Not some deluded person coming along trying to blur the distinctions between what is and what isn’t. It’s like using science in reality to explain magic found in fiction.
And the irony when you state the OP has a fundamentally flawed perception of what a ranger is when you can’t tell ranger in real life shouldn’t even be compared to a ranger in GW2, or in other fiction for that matter.
(edited by Pikafan.3792)
Or you could use Spike Trap instead of Frost Trap, which has a similar effect, except it actually contributes to your damage.
@EricGORE.7896
Pretty sure I haven’t. Then again, I never found the Mario franchise engaging save for the racing kart games.
@Pikafan, that is fine by mean and I think intended since Hunter’s Call is cast pretty quickly and is not channeled like Rapid Fire. If it had the same damage as Rapid Fire that would be OP vs it’s cast/channeled time.
Well thank you for singling me out and telling me things I already know. But rest assured, your efforts at stating the obvious is deeply appreciated.
Just a random snippet of information, Hunter’s Call does approximately 1/3 the damage of Rapid Fire with the same power and prec stats.
I just noticed one reason why I think the additive total is incorrect, I use the lynx pet fairly often and its F2 attack is a 2 hit attack and almost always they hit for the same exact amount. Why would a 2 hit not be additive if a multi hit one was? If an Anet person could shed some light on this it would be helpful.
It’s highly inconsistent across many skills, but unfortunately, the numbers you see from Rapid Fire is the cumulative total, just like Hundred Blades.
Screenshot link: http://i47.tinypic.com/ivlqjb.jpg
(edited by Moderator)
Ranger/Ele LF a PvE guild with a few requirements:
1) Small(20+ members at the most)
2) Keen to run regular explorable dungeons
3) Semi-hardcore guild
4) Focused on PvE
(Huge)Pluses:
1) Static groups
Reply to this thread or PM me for more details.
(edited by Pikafan.3792)
Wow. People actually put 30 points into beastmastery. Really now. I did some further testing in-game and finally got the numbers Dante was talking about after 30 points into the tree.
I take my words back, you aren’t a bad liar Dante, just a really bad player.
Still cracking me up omg….30 points into beastmastery.
Yeap, went in game to test it out. River Drake’s Lightning Breath did an average of 850 × 5 hits on a target. That’s on a 30 second cd. The rest were autoattacks at a rate of 1 attack for every ~3.5 crossfires a ranger puts out. Certainly not even close to “40% of the ranger’s damage”, unless you are really went ahead and put 30 points into beastmastery, which would explain why your ranger has no damage of his own.
Bunch of really ill-conceived lies debunked by proper testing, again.
No, at lvl 80 pets do significant damage, not amazing, but about 40% of mine. Ive seen my pet crit a player for 4k+, and my river drakes lightning breath can do 6-12k. Id much rather have alot of that damage transfered into the fail that is longbow.
No, stop lying. They do NOT do that kind of damage. What you are seeing is your own damage. And no, lightning breath doesn’t do 6 to 12k. Please stop spreading all these malicious lies.
Unless you actually play ranger, shut up. my river drakes f2 does 5-6k to targets, and if it crits it goes up, its not every target but the squishy ones. Ive had it hit for 12k in pve, highest in pvp was around 7k, regardless, pets do a good amount of damage, if you cant see that then go back to school and learn how to count. My wolf just hit a guardian for 4k attack, and when I swapped to river drake he hit him for 6k lightning breath. Ask any1 who plays thekittenclass.
Nope, and once again, stop lying. Pets really do not have that kind of damage. And yes, I do have an 80 ranger, but I am sure either you don’t, or you are just grossly exaggerating what pets do. They barely hit 1k as it is.
Maybe you should learn how to add and multiply. Yes pets do 30-40% of our damage. When my pet on a target does a total of 10k and I do a total of 15k then thats a significant amount, my pet can crit people for 4k, and my river drake hits people for 6-12k with his f2 ability minimum, if it actually hits. Get back on topic if you are going to respond, this is mostly about longbow. Contribute or go away.
Malicious liars like you are compounding the problem that people perceive pets are strong. They do NOT do that kind of damage, and you obviously do not play the ranger.
Get your facts right if you are going to respond, the forums needs facts, not hyperbole and gross misrepresentation of the situation. Contribute or go away.
No, at lvl 80 pets do significant damage, not amazing, but about 40% of mine. Ive seen my pet crit a player for 4k+, and my river drakes lightning breath can do 6-12k. Id much rather have alot of that damage transfered into the fail that is longbow.
No, stop lying. They do NOT do that kind of damage. What you are seeing is your own damage. And no, lightning breath doesn’t do 6 to 12k. Please stop spreading all these malicious lies.
Sigh. Allow me to repeat: pets do not do 40% of the damage between a ranger and the pet.
Getting tiring watching the same unintelligent buffoons spreading that piece of malicious misinformation.
Power/Prec/CritDmg for Axes and Longbows, ConDmg for shortbows.
Everytime you waypoint, complete 2 events at the very least. Then you realize waypoints aren’t expensive.
If you frivolously waypoint travel, naturally you will find that costs are punishing, and rightfully so.
This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior
You seem to have missed the point of my message. It’s not about which dungeon you want to do or which gear you like. I picked two completely random dungeons.
My point is that, with the current system, you’re forced to do the same dungeon over and over again to get the look that you want for your character.
Did not seem like a hypothetical situation you are postulating. I don’t really see the problem with doing the same dungeon repeatedly, but, again, to each his own.
The trick is to not waypoint travel frivolously like the way you are describing it to us.
Part of the problem is that, if you want a piece of gear from one of the dungeon sets, you need to repeat that specific dungeon 10+ times. For the full set plus a couple of weapons, this can easily go into the hundreds.
This is just bad design.
My friends want me to do TA with them, but since I want the AC set for my character, I “have” to keep doing AC, otherwise I feel like I’m wasting my time in TA (the tokens I get from there don’t allow me to buy anything I want).
What kind of sense does this make? Is Arena Net deliberately trying to make the game feel grindy? Why not have a single kind of token that players can use to buy the armour with the look they like, while still allowing them some variety of choice in which dungeons they’re going to run?
By all means, add a small chance (ex., 1-2%) for the final boss in each dungeon to drop one piece of that dungeon’s set, but let people choose which dungeon to play based on what they enjoy or what their friends enjoy, don’t force them to repeat the same dungeon over and over and over again.
The current system is grindier than WoW.
This is the first time I am hearing someone wants to do AC for the gear. The stats are inferior, so you must want the set for the looks? Looks rather ordinary to me though, but to each his own.
Any pet works in open world pve. It’s dungeons and harder content that matters.
Also, I still see people saying ridiculous stuff like 40% of a ranger’s damage comes from pets. They don’t.
Everything start’s to indicate that investing in defensive stat’s is essentially nerfing yourself horribly.
1v1 or even in WvW in most situations, people stacking offensive stat’s will vastly come on top of those who don’t.
Simply because it’s way more effective, and the way abilities scale.The only slightly valid option for being a support is CC.
Also dont forget the horrible lack of contribution you receive when being support during events, even if you are the only one applying boons and regen while removing conditions to 30 people, aslong if you dont do enough damage to mobs, you will end up with bronze or silver.
I’m extremely dissapointed because it turns out to be a brain dead process to build a most efficient character, unless Arenanet start’s to realize it and change’s it.
In short:I expected GW2 to be more a game of chest, instead it’s currently a game of checkers.
Sigh, from what I have seen, the best players run at least 1 part defensive stats in PvP. That proves a balance of offense and defense > opposite ends of the spectrum.
I have no trouble at all in sPvP running 1 part defense, 2 parts offense.
These changes are good, and should continue. Weed out the weak, dungeons are intended to be challenges, not snoozefests doable by subpar players.
Because you don’t get better karma rewards in WvW.
Pounce. I kite the second champion in TA all day long because of his poison, I can draw all the nightmare creatures, sweep across while dropping a symbol underneath him with my team DPSs all day. The dogs however, have essentially buffed movespeed, and the ability to leap on you from a fairly sizeable distance.
Also I WANT to play a walking steel plated box. The entire point of rolling my guardian was so that I could stack buffs armor and hp and become nearly unkillable.
Yes, players don’t HAVE to do it, but I wanted to. I was capable of making that choice because of the freedom to build my character how I pleased.
If you place slows on those dogs, you would realize they pounce for a significantly lesser distance.
But then again, you are so full of yourself that you refuse to listen any valid suggestions, and thus devolved your thread into “I have problems so others must suffer from them too”.
Too bad, reality states that the smarter players don’t have problems with that dungeon. Only you, and a small handful of obstinate players, stand by what seems to be the absolute way to fail at that dungeon.
Please, kindly continue setting yourself up for failure, in the meantime, your betters are all moving on to clear harder dungeons than the joke of an instance which you call hard, impossible or whatever term these days people use to exaggerate the difficulty of content.
Some people are just so masochistic and choose to wallow in self-pity and misery instead of picking the better way out for success and happiness. There’s nothing anybody can do to help people like that.
Funny part is, the point was never that players had to focus completely on survivability to be able to survive hits. All you need was to balance it with offense, as the smart ones already figured out,and spread the word out. 1 part survival stat, 2 parts offense; or 2 parts survival, 1 part offense.
Let me give another hint: please snare the patrol and kite them around. If they can’t get in range, they can’t do anything.
Five. Measly. Points.
Of which you can drop the silly 5 points into wilderness survival or skirmishing to get a far better trait.
1) You can use Zephyr’s Speed with Quickening Zephyr. One really ill-conceived point of yours debunked
2) Rampage As One has a long cooldown. Pets also die all the time in WvW, I am surprised you even state something like that. Even so, just use Zephyr’s Speed when RAO is down. Is something that simple so hard to understand?
In the end, it boils down to two things:
1) You have insufficient understanding and knowledge about rangers.
2) You just hate people disagreeing with you and pointing out facts that deflate your ego and prove that you are wrong.
Either of which case results in a fail on your part, and discredits your past, present and future statements.
Learn to use crowd control skills. Cripple, Immobilize, Chill, Stun, Daze and Knockback are all your friends.
Dodge to the right then. All those are just really bad excuses for not being able to dodge. Good players workaround problems like that, bad players make up a million and one excuses for failing hard.
This is why I use Troll Unguent for non-condition fights, or in teams with plenty of condition removal as it is.
Condi/prec provides a shortbow ranger more damage than prec/power does. But I don’t expect anyone will get the calculations right anytime soon, much less realize that.
Also, I don’t believe mesmers can maintain 10+ stacks of bleeding like rangers and necros do at any given time. Rangers apply them too quickly, and necros have extremely long durations on their bleeds. I could be mistaken, though, since I don’t really play my mesmer much.
Edit: Did a few tests on dummies on my mesmer. Mesmers CAN put out 10 stacks of bleeding easy, but can’t maintain it as well as rangers and necros do simply because of the long attack interval of duelists. However, they can apply that 10 stacks a lot faster than rangers and necros can, which makes up for it.
(edited by Pikafan.3792)
It is not a player’s fault for “exhausting content too quickly”, developers either stall progression or implement more content.
In the case of GW2, players already forked out a huge chunk of money buying the game anyway, so if they stop playing the game it wouldn’t be a whole lot of loss on the part of the developer. In fact, it might be advantageous to have lesser people use the servers, allowing the cutting of costs and reducing overheads.
And what would be the problem with that?
And once again, when people talk about about maximising their burst dps they completely forget that 5 points into beastmastery for the quickness trait.
Added a system to limit the experience and gold that players can receive from speed-farming dungeons.
Posted by: Pikafan.3792
^ That is wrong, there are other popular dungeons being run such as AC, CM, TA, and to a certain extent HotW.
Condition necros are easy to solo as a ranger. They can’t put bleeds on you if you have half a mind to spam dodges the moment they are up. In between quick shot, dodge rolls and Vigorous Renewal, you would be hard-pressed to have more than 5 stacks of bleeding from a necro at any time.
You are wrong, so wrong on so many levels. I don’t know where you got all that arrogance to make that highly ignorant and misguided assumption.
Rangers deal ~90% of the damage of both the ranger and the pet put together.
For every pet attack, a ranger can attack 3 times with a shortbow. Average damage of a shortbow autoattack is 400 damage. Pets deal ~400 damage with each autoattack.
So for every 400 damage a pet does, a ranger would deal 1200 damage. Looks like it’s ~40% right?
But wait, shortbow autoattacks have a secondary effect – bleeds.
For each cast of Crossfire, a good ranger places 1 stack of bleed, and on a critical, a ~50% chance to place another with the right sigil and trait.
Now, my ranger sits at 1.2k condition damage, so each bleed lasts 4 seconds and deals 100 damage per second per stack.
With 3 crossfires, I place ~4.5 stacks of bleeding. That adds 1800 damage.
So a ranger dishes out 1800+1200 damage for every 400 damage a pet can deal.
3000/3400 * 100% = 88.2%(3 sig fig)
A ranger, properly traited, built and played, does a whooping 88.2% of the total damage of the ranger and pet put together. Not to mention, pets die a lot more often than the ranger himself, skewing the calculations in a practical setting in favor of the ranger even further.
So either you are trolling, or you are absolutely clueless. I daresay the latter is about right.
P.S. This is not counting the other attacks, utility slot and elite slot skills the ranger has, most of which increases the ranger’s dps even further.
Finally!! Thank you for an informed post.
The balance between Ranger and pet is just about right IMO. Personally I’d prefer my pet not to be nerfed down to the usefulness of a chocolate fireguard.
Naturally, the calculations are based on a lvl 80 ranger with at least half a brain not to put in more than 5 points into beastmastery(quickness trait is good, really good), requirements of which isn’t fulfilled by our really clueless OP.
Also, the number of shortbow autoattacks you can put out in between pet attacks is closer to 4 than 3, but for prudence and ease of calculations I rounded it down to 3. Naturally, if I were to go into the exact number of hits the % of damage a ranger puts out actually increases yet again.
Hey, are you kidding?! Pet deals HALF of rangers’s damage! We must be play a different games? With beastmaster 10 + it makes 60%. With a short bow you deal a critical by 900 2 times per second, and pet 2000 per 1 second. He’s right – you are just pet of your pet. Any other class doing double-triple damage than a ranger with no pet!
Sure, if you belong to the category of clueless and really awful players.
In the meantime, I will suffice with pulling aggro from glass cannon warriors with my single target damage, and you will suffice with being clueless like the way you are.
My calculations in your unwarranted QQ thread are extensive, proves that ranger pets don’t even come close to 20% of the ranger’s damage unless a person is misguided enough to put 30 points into beastmastery.
Just disable autoattack then.
I do not know what kind of pet does hits by 400. It is more like on 2×400 shortbow hit against his 1×650. You have dot, he have abilites which hits by 1500. And eah… many rangers believe shortbow is the most powerful ranger weapon.
Yeah sure, if you are misguided enough to put points into beastmastery, and yes, I also counted how many hits in game I can put out before a pet makes an attack, and that number is actually closer to 4 hits to 1 pet autoattack.
Next, the only 2 viable types of pets are the bears(highest vit) and the ranged pets(spiders, devourers etc). The rest die too quickly to even mention. None of them deal 1.5k damage with abilities to begin with. Even if they did, those abilities tend to be on a very long cooldown and have a huge startup delay(see list of ranger bugs thread).
So yeah, pets deal so little damage, 40%? What are you high on and where can I get some of that stuff?
Well anyway, moving on because the OP hasn’t actually played the ranger enough to comment, much less QQ, about it.
For any of the rangers is no secret that pet deals minimum of 40% of all damage.
You are wrong, so wrong on so many levels. I don’t know where you got all that arrogance to make that highly ignorant and misguided assumption.
Rangers deal ~90% of the damage of both the ranger and the pet put together.
For every pet attack, a ranger can attack 3 times with a shortbow. Average damage of a shortbow autoattack is 400 damage. Pets deal ~400 damage with each autoattack.
So for every 400 damage a pet does, a ranger would deal 1200 damage. Looks like it’s ~40% right?
But wait, shortbow autoattacks have a secondary effect – bleeds.
For each cast of Crossfire, a good ranger places 1 stack of bleed, and on a critical, a ~50% chance to place another with the right sigil and trait.
Now, my ranger sits at 1.2k condition damage, so each bleed lasts 4 seconds and deals 100 damage per second per stack.
With 3 crossfires, I place ~4.5 stacks of bleeding. That adds 1800 damage.
So a ranger dishes out 1800+1200 damage for every 400 damage a pet can deal.
3000/3400 * 100% = 88.2%(3 sig fig)
A ranger, properly traited, built and played, does a whooping 88.2% of the total damage of the ranger and pet put together. Not to mention, pets die a lot more often than the ranger himself, skewing the calculations in a practical setting in favor of the ranger even further.
So either you are trolling, or you are absolutely clueless. I daresay the latter is about right.
P.S. This is not counting the other attacks, utility slot and elite slot skills the ranger has, most of which increases the ranger’s dps even further.
In the end, at lvl 80 pets are just sponges without any real damage. Not sure what the moaning and whining is about.
For reference, unless you are running a full dungeon group filled with only rangers and scepter necros, you will be hard-pressed to maintain close to 20 stack bleeding.
In which case, it’s your fault for choosing that kind of awful lineup nobody in the right mind would go along with.
Most dungeons feature fights in which you have a limited space to battle in. The 1500 range on the longbow is just moot and highly obsolete – you have to fight within less than 1200 range most of the time anyway.
In any case, there are extensive calculations showing why Longbow loses to Shortbow in terms of single target dps by a huge margin, but I leave that to each person to do their own research and think critically for themselves.
By the rate of sales alone, GW2 has far, far surpassed GW1.
From a business standpoint, GW2 is far more successful than GW1,
Ranger-Druid the strongest 1v1 profession hands down Shhh.... don't tell ArenaNet : )
in Ranger
Posted by: Pikafan.3792
ITT: people getting results in 1-2 low level matches with sub-par builds, then in their excitement start advertising their ignorance for any player with half a brain to laugh at.
Hint: Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.
What game are you playing again? Melee lacks flexibility? I believe all the classes except maybe Guardian have ranged options. Thieves and warriors can dodge out and switch to bows or guns just as easily as a ranged class can run into melee. I for one do this routinely as part of my gameplay whenever I take a big hit or appear to be taking to much damage. I really don’t understand some of you at all. It’s like we’re not even playing the same game.
<Removed – Keep it friendly folks ~ Dalmarus>
Players using ranged weapons have the flexibility of running into melee to deal damage if they so wish. The same can’t really be said about players wielding melee weapons running into ranged.
Keywords: Players using ranged weapons…..players wielding melee weapons
A thief or a warrior switching (from a melee weapon) to a bow or gun would be equivalent of a player using a melee weapon becoming a player using a ranged weapon.
In conclusion, because of your myopic ignorance, you utterly fail to grasp it is the melee weapons having a disadvantage over ranged weapons that people have problems with, not the classes which are predominantly melee having a disadvantage over classes which are predominantly ranged.
(Ranged weapon > Melee weapon) =/= (Ranged class > Melee class)
Then again, I don’t expect lower lifeforms to be able to grasp finer nuances that only humans get.
(edited by Moderator)
Yet another pointless thread seeking to troll by using the ever so popular “if you are complaining you must be a wow player” card.
Perhaps the complaints are there because they are valid concerns?