Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

colesy.8490:

Running glass cannon in zergs or pvp can just get you killed. In WvW it makes you a rally bot if you’re running in the thick of fights or being careless with your dodging/mitigation and in pvp, you’ll have a hard time holding a point against something like a bunker necro that will just outlast you, so yes you can have builds that counter your team’s purpose.

…responsibility to ensure team cohesion is on the people making the team to ensure they get the people they want.

Then it’s not really a problem is it? Those who don’t optimize shouldn’t have a problem being asked to ping gear. If non optimize people take issue with it, it’s because they want to be carried.

Pro players asking to be teamed with other pro players I totally fine, just as non optimized people don’t want to team with them anyways.

I fail to see the issue I suppose. For me, pve is all about maximizing damage since guards get so many inherent ways to mitigate damage.

As long as no one cries when they aren’t invited everything is fine really. My guild when we do serious wvwvw not only expects classes to trait a certain way but to gear/consumables a certain way- so that we can meet our objective. Many in this thread see pve the same way. We’re playing the way we want to play and unfortunately that doesn’t mesh well with the non optimized crowd. Which is okay. They should respect that decision to play the way we want. So when a non optimized gets turned down, it’s not that we aren’t allowin you to play the way you want, it’s that bringing you wouldn’t be playing the way we want.

Mutual respect.

/thread

Meh. I feel I don’t need medi heals for pve, for wvwv I run something different in guild runs, typical bunker. For roaming I just use this same build but put on PTV armor with Mel runes.

For everything else I use this build. This builder doesn’t show all the multipliers but it puts out about 33% more damage than the typical builds that don’t get 10/25/x/x/x or 25 virtues, even geared identically. Those damage multipliers add some serious output.

I dropped scholar for travelers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYg67WFSIEf4EhNDAawKFx7e4MwYGB-jQCBYfDRj+IaUBBJ5pIaslhFRjVbDT7iIq2oDwImRrWKgRVGB-e

Well I personally love them. I view them as an opportunity cost.

For instance on my thief, I could slot scholar, but would need to use the movement signet. If I slot traveler, I can slot the power signet. I actually gain power and other stats, the true opportunity cost was movement speed versus 10% more damage when above 90% hp. So even for my thief its a decent trade off.

For the guardian it’s even more pronounced. The build I normally use for pve already had perma swiftness but had to use retreat+sy!+staff 3. Switching to travelers lets me free up a utility AND a weapon slot. I can slot bane signet, so the opportunity cost again is movement speed vs 10% DMg above 90% hp.

It was well worth the trade off. I can technically get 2 utilities and a different off weapon with my build now that I’m not locked in.

And how does your attack on my character have anything to do with what I said? Congrats on the deflection and ad hominen.

Because wanting a level playing field somehow makes me a content locust? I’m usually a gamer who sticks with games for years. You don’t know me so don’t judge me, bro.

Play for fun with friends. But don’t come complaining on the forums when you try wvwvw and get stomped by people with top end gear that takes months to complete cause then white knights like this guy will tell you just play for fun: other people’s fun at your expense.

Of course if you’d like an even playing field, which many find “fun” (or mandatory), then expect to grind for months.

Which is what exactly zero people expected from this game.

Wild star is looking better and better, and can’t really use the “ncsoft Asian grinder excuse” I see lobbed constantly on these forums. Same company.

ophidic.1279:

dcypher.2590:

why don’t they actually put things behind fun content instead of these long kitten grinds? i mean seriously, this game should be called farm wars 2.

OMG, it’s an mmorpg! That’s like playing a racing game and complaining about all that annoying driving!

No that’s not a mmorpg.

Ultima online was a mmorpg. You can thank games like wow and now gw2 for making “gear” into content. We were told the philosophy would remain from gw1: get your gear quick then play the game how you want.

Mix in wvwvw and ascendent and you’ll see why this is a problem.

Letting people know ectos were involved so that the no life players could immediately profit, check. Resetting monthlies so the locusts get double rewards, check.

This game rewards players with no job or life with massive TP manipulation.

Then we get the stellar gear grinds.

No thanks. Not the game I thought it was and anyone who doesn’t see this especially after the last couple patches is drinking koolaid.

This game has gone full on Asian grinder.

Gear is not content.

Gear treadmills disguised as content goes against the philosophy of gear not taking forget to maximize so that you can just play the game. What do we need this gear for if nothin is designed around using it?

Welcome to the grind.

Gear is not content.
Gear treadmills disguised as content is a complete slap in the face to the idea that gear should be easy to max.

Is this even arena net? I’m thinking NCsoft changed things and forgot to notify the players.

It’s as simple as they realized the gamer addicts are a gold mine if they make skinner boxes. It’s a shame that wasn’t the game they sold us last year; I imagine a lot of people would’ve saved money.

Guardians are fine if all you so is solo pve, some dungeons, and Zerg wvwvw. Plenty of other classes are easy in pve, Zerg well, and level easy. Guardians are pretty bad in 1v1 and wvwvw short of zergball. Guardians excel at making a super tiny area around them hostile, but lack ways to keep opponents there. In pve this isn’t a problem- in wvwvw and pvp it is.

It’s pretty sad when you read a classes perks are “levels easy and is great when you are surround by 30 other players.”

It’s not exactly an endearing endorsement.

OP, roll another class. Guardians are progressively falling behind the other classes. Half the armor in the game is useless, we have no viable condition builds, and in a meta of conditions+mobility, we don’t get conditions and have to choose between condition removal OR mobility, and be locked into multiple utilities/weapons just to achieve it.

Tldr: roll warrior or necro if you want to be an asset to anything other than a Zerg.

Proteus.6320:

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Don’t know if I can justify using this on any of my builds… the opportunity cost is too high for my taste. May at least try it though. Either way, definitely a good option for those who put a premium on base movement speed.

For a soldier class without any viable ways of keeping an opponent in range, who has to sacrifice condi removal or gap closers to get said mobility, I’d say base movement speed (for the only class unable to spec to 25% passive increase) should be a huge consideration to ease up on bring kited.

It’s a shame we have been given such a poor “choice”.

How come other classes don’t have to make such an opportunity cost?

Reroll warrior or necro.

Guardians have lowest HP, crap sustain, no decent condition bunker builds to take advantage of the far FAR superior condi itemization (other bunkers can spec conditions and use dire armor for condi/vit/toughness, guardian bunkers if they want any pressure at all have to gear for power/prec/crit dmg/vit/toughness, which is why bunker guards cant kill anyone) and have to sacrifice far too much to get mobility or condition removal (never both) while having only group stability we are sought after in wvwvw.

Boon bot is your role. If you want to do dps you need to spec power/prec/crit damage which is countered heavily by the meta of conditions which has far better itemization.

My advice until guardians get buffs (as long as spvp only offers conquest mode the glaring deficiencies of the class won’t be addressed- conquest = hold a node, don’t have to kill anyone. As soon as a mode rolls in that requires actually holding a node AND defeating your opponent, guardians will be back burners and for good reason IMO) roll some other class.

Daecollo.9578:

This is a massive upgrade to guardian since they don’t need to use staff anymore.

No need for staff AND retreat AND SY!. Sure it’s a buff, if you dont mind losing 150 power and 5% crit damage and 10% modifier, but seemingly unlike every single other class we have to give up significant stats otherwise to get what should be a baseline trait or utility.

It’s a giant kitten in the face to guardians once again. We have no viable condi builds to take advantage of superior itemization, we have no mobility unless we spec seriously for it (and nerf ourselves on either condi cleanses or gap closers, such a fun choice to have to make) and now we get the “choice” of getting to “on par” mobility by giving up.:. Yep, you guessed it- even more power.

Gee thanks. How about viable condition builds and a trait for 25% move speed? That would be a good start. Or making toughness reduce condi damage.

It likely won’t stack.

Kind of lame that to get a passive movement speed bonus guardians have to give up a real dps rune set. I mean, it’s not like I can’t spec full condi bunker and maintain high pressure without sacrificing any bunker stats at all. I mean, it’s not like I have to make sure I spec power/prec/crit damage versus condition, cause itemization punishes condi builds and rewards power builds by saving on 2 entire stats.

May want to edit out the “heard from multiple sources” in your OP if you do not in fact have any sources.

Considering your post is the first I’ve heard about it, how about listing your multiple sources before the hype/rumor train gets started.

Ran this last night! Hilariously fun and devastating area denial. Played it with the intent to utilize large groups at chokes and it shined very well; basically a bunker type with offensive condition capability which doubles as damage mitigation.

Thanks Soryuju, this thread got me super pumped so I tried it out because I feel a condition bunker type guard was lacking for us. Even in a small roaming setting it was pretty successful; I did some 2v4 and 2v5 with a warrior (surprise) and it was subtle in how much tactical control it gives you over the battlefield. The smarter the opponent, the more you can deny them damaging you.

Here is what I used:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=V9;4NF-20D3RG-90;9;4J;0JT41;538-58Aa-V8;2bUytbUytC0kA1-q5;2Vn5oao5pap5qa0D06-03;5V0-N;9;9;9;9;9;0V6s5Y

colesy.8490:

What AOE situations require you to stay out of range and kite?

This event with a massive Zerg and the aetherblade spawns. Gear and spec that way and see how long it takes before everything is gunning for you once full buffs/debuffs are active. Hint: not long. Staff autos just wapwapwap 5 targets for 2.5-3k+ for crazyness at midrange, with the #2 orb critting for 6k, and I’ve hit 4 targets with it for that- at 600 range. Swap to gs, 14k ww on pirate captains an gs autos at 3 targets a pop 4k/4k/6.5-7k. It takes a lot to stay standing when the aggro inevitably drops on you.
The build is like paper lol, requires a lot footwork to stay standing and at times i still go down. Once the dodges/heal/blinds/block is gone, one of the best ways of reducing damage in this game is to get some range since mobs/players do more in melee.

Try it out if you have the gear for it.

It likely still holds true today as it did a year ago:

15 radiance, and 5 virtues for leveling. Everything else is bonus. This gives you an aoe blind, party-wide burn, and party- wide 3 stacks of might. Add on 3 vuln too for every mob.

Radiance 5 gives blind on virtue of justice, radiance 10 for vulnerability on blind, and radiance 15 to reset virtue of justice when a mob dies. Virtues 5 for 3 might when you activate justice.

Run up to mob, virtue of justice, spin. Repeat. You’ll do extra damage and mitigate their first hit. Dredge are immune to blind so when you run into them later on, you’ll be able to see how much that “active mitigation” helps as they will do more damage to you.

This will hopefully teach you that blind, blocks, and dodges will be your best tools for reducing damage you take and its designed that way. It’s why we have a low health pool.

At 40 its a game changing combo, or at least was for me.

You can choose to go for more dps after that by going 10 into zeal for extra damage on burning targets, and more into radiance for more crit and extra damage against targets with conditions.

After you get 0/15/0/0/5, go for 5 in Honor to get vigor on crits, which will allow you to dodge more.

Then experiment.

foofad.5162:

Proteus.6320:

foofad.5162:

10/25/0/10/25

10/30/30/0/0

10/30/0/30/0

Three common DPS specs off the top of my head. What are we lacking, exactly?

An actual condition bunker build. Or any build that actually uses condition gear… like every other class.

I wasn’t directing that at you as much as the OP. But even then; Condition bunker isn’t DPS. It’s condition bunker.

My B, wasn’t tryin to sound hostile, hope it wasn’t taken that way.
My RL twin bro plays an engi bunker and let’s just he is immortal while able to do some serious dps. it makes me jelly

foofad.5162:

10/25/0/10/25

10/30/30/0/0

10/30/0/30/0

Three common DPS specs off the top of my head. What are we lacking, exactly?

An actual condition bunker build. Or any build that actually uses condition gear… like every other class.

Patience is a virtue. Well, not yet. It should be a 4th! It should apply cripple whenever a burn is applied.

Add torment on click, 3 sec duration, 15 sec cd. /runs and hides

I feel the one thing lacking for guardians is an optimal condition spec. Every set of armor with condition damage is usable by every other class, except guardians. While other bunkers can maintain sick damage with conditions while keeping high heal/armor with apothecary, a guardian bunker has to rely on power/crit/crit DMg, and the disparity is only goin to widen more as guardian speciality of condition removal no longer keeps pace.

Once people really start to replace guard bunkers in spvp for engi/necro/ranger bunkers that can put out far more pressure than guardians can (and add a stun/condi warrior), we may see some changes.

The way I see it our 2 main things we lack are condition damage builds, and mobility to an extent. What does the meta revolve around? Conditions and mobility. What do guardians have the least of? Keeping someone in range and condition damage. We have no cripple, and no passive speed bonus. We’re easily kited, and speccing for gap closers leaves us incredibly weak to conditions. We can’t have both.

Once players start to realize the meta has shifted, and more players come up with comps that don’t have guardians, we may finally be able to have this addressed.

People ask, “why staff?”

In my build, couple posts up, staff is beastly in aoe situations that require you stay out of melee and kite around. When in a group and buffed to where GS auto hits 3 targets for 4k/4k/6k, staff would be hitting 5 targets for 3k (talking crits here) over a wider area at that. I’ve had my #2 critting for 6k. Last night in fireheart I had an orb crit 4 targets for 5k and my staff auto doing 3k follow up. In a second I had done 5k x 4 and 3k x 4 = 32k, outside of melee and mid range.

Yeh. That’s why.

colesy.8490:

You’ll spend most of your time in GSword if you want to do damage. Staff is there for a pre-fight Empower and if you have to back out n get some HP back. Mostly utility.

Why not swap the staff out for GS after using empower and have sword+focus in your second weapon set? You’re better off dodging than immobilising yourself with staff empower for a tiny heal.

—

I’ve been testing a Might stacking build with GS + Mace/Focus and the survivability is good and it hits like a freight train. I’ll post a build once I’ve tested further.

Why a mace?

Sword + Torch

Why torch?

Isn’t torch one of those weapons which gives you a big damage number but it’s in a channel so it’s actually worse DPS?

Hrm. I think sword/focus for #5, teleport and swap, mace 3. If they hit you they eat a huge bowl of kitten from both high bursts. They’ll usually attempt to disengage at which point torch 4 twice to launch its fireball is another huge hit. Focus 5, mace3, and torch 4 can all reach obscene crit damage, and when the stars align with 10/30/x/x/10 its possible to see like 10k/8k/10k, I’ve personally seen 12k on focus 5.

That’s why.

10/25/x/x/x is the basis for pve dps builds as it gives a straight 20% DMg increase that doesn’t require too much, just burning on target. Other damage modifiers that are nice to shoot for are 25 honor and 25 virtues. They each have there own pros/cons. From there you really have options and it depends on utilities/weapons you want to use.

I personally use 20/25/0/25/0 gs/staff for many reasons:
Zealous blade is 5% more damage over 10 in zeal, as well as 100 more power, and vuln on symbols. The very minor healing does contribute to sustain. 25 in Honor gives more base HP, dodge heal for more sustain, buffs 2h weapon/shouts cooldown, which I use along with signets (condition removal), and has DMg modifier for low endurance. I use full zerk armor/weps with scholar/force/lust, and zerk/valk full ascended with cavalier back.

I chose honor over valor or virtues because I feel the extra hp is a good cushion against conditions, the improved 2h reduction allows more frequent burst, and it still gets a damage modifier. I don’t feel valor is a good fit- increasing my crit from 227% multiplier to 257% max isn’t very appealing once you see how much it really raises crit damage (about 7-8%more damage on crits whereas both honor and virtue multipliers affect all damage, crits too).

Virtues would be nice for consecration buffs but I find base WoR is fine for when I need it. Virtues also would be nice with just 5 points in for justice/might spam on trash but the extra DMg buff from honor dodging is always on and works better on bosses IMO. The 20% more DMg from active aegis is far too gimmicky to use consistently.

This is for a 2h build though, 1h builds would go 10/30/x/x/x.

I find its consistent and easy to maintain DMg multipliers to best fit my 2h play style; the build compliments gs and staff so well. Utilities SY/judgment/bane, heal signet and renewed focus. Mobility is fair, with staff 2h reduction, SY and dropping judgment for retreat it can maintain near permanent swiftness, which is great with gs leap for keeping up with a Zerg.

Stats:
Power usually sits at 2500 without buffs, with lust/food/staff/sharpening stone, I self buff to over 3.2k power. I hit 4k power with full buffs. Crit only 45% but I group with ware/engi a lot so always have fury (and SY), crit DMg is 78%; armor 2200, 14.2k hp.

Let me just say that power scales ridiculously well after 3.5k. Also retaliation and reflection, while not a focus of the build by any means, scales on power alone.

I’ve used this build for everything: beat Liadri, Scarlet, do all dungeons and pve with this build. For wvwvwv zerging i modify slightly to a 10/25/0/30/5, which is also very fun for pve in a more support fashion with shouts. Also will switch out just armor to a pvt set for wvwvwv. I’ve used the base 20/25/0/25/0 for roaming and had decent success with it actually even when using full dps gear.

I was able to get to Liadra without changing any gear other than weapons. Used my 20/25/0/25/0 2h dps build with GS/staff; used gs/sword+focus on the bomb guy and will likely use sword+focus/staff for Liadra. Full zerker/ascendent zerk/vitality.

Pretty simple, its really just learning your opponents moves and planning accordingly. As predicted this should be far easier on DPS builds since the things that kill you are one shot mechanics.

Getting some of he achievements will likely require some sigil/trait swaps, and I’m sure there will be optimized synergies discovered for getting each achievement, I haven tested it yet as I only tried Liadra once and wanted to do that before I work on the gimmick/gambit achievements.

Edited to add:
On the tornado lady I went down, got knocked to the edge and then the tornadoes couldn’t hit me for some reason. Between chipping away at her with #1 and healing with #3, I actually beat her while in downed state. Took a while but she herself puts out is pathetic. Bring stability and destroy her.

Brawlers arena was a pve solo challenge against bosses. The lower brackets were forgiving but it became readily apparent that to best enrage timers not only required a dps spec but some high end dps gear as well.

I think in gw2 since there is no trinity they will have to base this on a dps format- the game is already designed that way. Who knows there could be some survival type fights based on sustain but I think if your good at dodging/block/blind, dps will reign supreme.

I imagine this will be similar I the Brawler Arena that WoW has. Those (higher ranked) fights were focused exclusively around using a dps build because everyone can dps.

I think it will be the same here. I can’t see them trying to design different fights that would require a toughness or healing build. No trinity! But I’m not sure how they’ll utilize downed state either, if at all.

Ill be going in with dps spec and gear with gs/staff 20/25/0/25/0 to test the waters.

I agree that staff is a surprisingly powerful weapon. In an extreme dps build its quite viable for not only damage but also support. The staff allows you to medium range kite and avoid a ton of damage while still putting out significant damage that is not projectile and goes through obstacles.

I will frequently kite mobs/players around with it without ever using other abilities than 1 through 3 and dodge.

With my build; ill launch #2 at range activating VoJ before it hits, swap to GS without a swap Cd, roll into a symbol/leap/ww/binding weapon swap, symbol/orb/detonate orb then #1 spam.

I frequently see my staff autos critting for 2.5k, seen 3k plenty with group buffs, and my #2 orb crits over 5k on short cd with option for even more burst.

Staff is straight beastly precisely because it can put out great dps while giving you plenty of mobility. Your opponent will quickly realize the need to escape nearly undodgable and unreflective ranged dps that looks like 5k+2.5k at once followed by 2.5k 2.5k 5k+2.5k.

For under level events like Queensdale up through lol 60ish, staff for trash, GS for vets or greater.

I probably wouldn’t recommend staff for damage outside of a dps build.
The reason staff works so well for me in pvp and wvwvw is because its so easy to hit your opponent when you’re both moving around fanatically dodging and strafing.
Against melee its downright mean.

I like that change Equinox. Its rare to have the scholar 6p bonus in pvp.

For others who just want to see what I plan to achieve gearwise: Ill replace the exotic earrings with zerk/valk for a full zerk/valk set, and plan to replace the cavalier back with full zerk. It will not have versatile power infusion. just agony for now, Im not that rich yet!

Buffs breakdown:
25 might, fury 100%, 90 extra power from incorrect calc on Bane Signet, 250 extra power from bloodlust stacks, 170 power/15 crit dmg/170 precision from warrior banners, and 10% damage from a potion. This is the “Manual” tab:
power: 0,
precision: 0,
power: 510,
critical damage: 15,
precision: 170,
damage multiplier: 10,

Here is how it looks totaled:
Power 4125
Precision 1974
Toughness 916
Vitality 1256
Critical Damage 102%
Condition Damage 1125
Condition Duration 20%
Healing Power 250
Boon Duration 0%
Critical Chance 74.38%
Damage 77.56%
Armor 2127
Health 14205
Virtue Recharge Rate 0%

Effective Power 15605.84
Effective Health (EHP) 16456

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.5|1.1g.h2|6.1g.h4|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|4t.d1f.2t.d1e.3t.d1e.2t.d1e.3t.d1e.2s.d1e|k27.p29.0.p29.0|69.1|v.1a.1b.18.1i|e

It doesnt go up much higher with full zerk:
Effective Power 16068.95
Effective Health (EHP) 15414

Full zerk and versatile might:
Effective Power 16185.91
Effective Health (EHP) 15414

For S&Gs…
Sword/Focus 20/30/0/10/10 full ascended zerk/mighty infusions build using same buffs:
Effective Power 19835.21
Effective Health (EHP) 13676

Scepter/Torch burst 20/30/0/10/10 with same buffs:
Effective Power 20736.81
Effective Health (EHP) 13676
(the “Manual” tab for scepter build has 5% more damage multipler due to trait not being 10%, still listed at 5%.)

Cntrl- thanks for the spvp breakdown. Ill have to give it a shot and see, I like that combo.

Thanks guys, I appreciate the extra numbers breakdown to show how small changes can have a big impact.

I’m really digging this build. It changed the game for me- for the better.

Sorry for any confusion. I’m not running full ascendent zerker yet but using a cavalier backpack and exotic zerker earrings with beryl slots.

Here is an exact build i use atm (need full ascendent and replace back with zerk) with foods but its missing 12 might, the +200 power from the food buff and 250 power from bloodlust stacks. Also this site doesnt calc bane signet at 180 power, nor does signet of judgment show it breaks stun. (I could probably have hit higher numbers if I had hit SY first.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.5|1.1g.h2|6.1g.h4|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|4t.d1f.2t.0.3t.0.1g.61.1g.61.2v.0|k27.p29.0.p29.0|69.1|v.1a.1b.18.1i|e

Re: Kelnis:
Thanks so much for the breakdown. I did test the 10/30/0/10/10 build and found it to be slightly higher in damage but even less on survival. I actually go 20 zeal for the extra 100 power and 5% GS damage.

I tried the 1h builds with sword and scepter and they were solid- I just prefer the aoe GS and staff provide. I wanted a 2h build. I do like unscathed, it pretty much requires retreat though, which is sorta “meh”.

foofad.5162:

The trick with Unscathed Contender is to use Retreat right before your main burst. Works great with single hit stuff like torch 4, Mighty Blow, Shield of Wrath, and so on – but it works well for Whirling Wrath too.

But instead I get to keep Elusive Power which is much easier to maintain permanently, while also keeping Selfless Daring, 2h Mastery, and 14k+ HP. Its a nice balance and I feel worth it for the time being.

Kelnis.1829:

Gonna go ahead and leave this here.
This was done with a 20/30/0/10/10 build and more info can be found in the thread we did a bunch of testing in.

Btw, base hp on a guardian is 10,805. 30 points in Honor is 300 vit, 300 vit = 3,000 hp. Full zerker+30 points in Honor: 13805.

Full zerker and 25 points in to honor: 13305 hp.

Hehe 20% more under aegis, and crit food, with warrior buff+banner. Nice. I tried out the same spec but didnt find my aegis uptime significant enough to warrant it.

Just did a test runnin around solo in Cursed Shore, crit food+power stone full bloodlust, self buffs only. 10k WW left n right. Give me a proper 25 might/vuln + warrior banners and it gets nasty. Theoretically could use the +20% from 10 virtues but I feel its the toughest to pull off and has very low “up” time.

Molch.2078:

Proteus.6320:

foofad.5162:

Pffbbghbtbtbtt. You call yourself a berserker convert and you don’t even use berserker/berserker trinkets?

I had one condition: do not go below 14k HP.

Full zerker with 25 points in honor has 14.5k hp or more.

No, it doesnt.

Full zerker with 30 in honor doesnt even break 14k. I’d be happy to see your evidence however.

Heres mine, evidence to back up a claim, that is:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.0|1.1g.h2|0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|2s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0.3s.0.2s.0|f0.p00.0.u000.0|0.0|v.1a.1b.18.1i|e

Charak.9761:

0/15/30/20/5 is my primary, I solo’d t4 with zerker gear GS/sceptor/torch

this build lets you do well in dungeons and lets you spam f1/1 staff in wvw.

I hate the zeal tree anyways. Any case, I dont rely to much on my GS. Its okay for solo, but when it comes to group play, Id rather be an assertive utility and let the others do the 100% dmg w/o worry.

I used to think the exact same thing about GS, and preferred my hammer for the protection and healing I used to get with AH.

Now I’ve realized the power of Zeal, not only 15% more dmg multiplier but also the 200 more power.

GS offers some decent control and honestly some nice utility. Using an opening like:
dodge roll (dmg bonus) into the middle of mobs, hitting virtue of justice for aoe blind and burn(more dmg bonus), dropping symbol, binding, leap, pull, WW. Two aoe blinds, group burn, aoe retaliation/vuln, aoe condition cleansing, aoe pull/interrupt, all accompanied by some of the highest damage a guardian can achieve. My old build could do the same thing but with half the damage not drop the targets, and end up taking more damage overall.

The staff on this build is surprisingly wicked for underleveled events. This build breaks the game I think for underleveling as I’ve found my autos 2-3 shotting mobs with having such a high power. Get full bloodlust, eat some power food. Its hilarious. Combo at range while running up – dodge roll into #2 while hitting virtue of justice for the burn: the orb burns, making multipliers active, the auto attack hits… dead mob if either crit. Its faster than anything else for just running around clearing out underleveled events.

foofad.5162:

Pffbbghbtbtbtt. You call yourself a berserker convert and you don’t even use berserker/berserker trinkets?

I had one condition: do not go below 14k HP.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Tried this out in Spvp. I am currently about 700 points off avenger title. The map rotation had us 4 vs 4 most maps. To be honest I didn’t think this was gonna have the survival in those gank moments. I was pleasantly surprised . I do agree timing of attacks and dodges is pretty vital to get the very most from this build. Timing your attacks kinda goes without saying. The overt greatsword animations broadcast too easily what the guardian is doing, so if I see them use at least one dodge I pop one of my signets to induce weakness/fumble and connecting with 80% of attacks is pretty certain.
The only down side of this build is that I am now going to have to buy a full secondary set of armour and runes.

If youre making this build work in spvp, more power to you! I love it for everything else myself but finding it difficult to let go of 15 virtues for perma retaliation.

I’ll give it some more runs though, may use lyssa instead of scholar for spvp.

Ive spent the vast majority of my play time since launch running a toughness/AH build with something like 0/15/30/20/5 for, well, everything. It was tanky and survivable, and performed great for everything I did whether that be PvE roaming, wvwvw zerging, dungeons, events, solo grinding, etc. I didnt slow down ever because I rarely had to, and as my gameplay evolved, I found myself rarely going down in health.

After the trials were released I tried to solo it with my AH build. My RL twin plays the game too; he has a badkitten engi full ascendent, zerker, who just wrecks everything he comes into contact with. He first soloed t4 trials on release day after figuring out the strat.

I thought to myself, “Man Ive soloed so much stuff I didnt think possible, and can survive super well in dungeons – I bet I can do this.” Lets just say it was a realization – I didnt have the damage to down the plunderers. I tried more control, even pushing as much burst as I could with other sigils, but none of it could drop these guys fast enough. Then again I thought a 5k crit on a MB was crazy rare, and a 5k whirlwind the same.

My bro duoed it with me to show me the strat. After a few failed attempts due to my lackluster DPS (which he pointed out after comparing numbers on mumble) I tried a few different builds, and finally decided to get out my old zerker set and try a pure DPS build, gear and all.

Lets just say it was night and day in performance in terms of taking out the plunderers swiftly. As in, easily doing twice the damage I was before, and able to compress it in shorter burst windows.

I thought, well this build is great at this but I bet it falls down everywhere else. So I’ve spent the past couple days running it through hard dungeons, easy paths, wvwvw, solo pve. It blew my mind away how much faster everything was. With my engi bro in a party, it wasnt uncommon to see 16k crit whirlwinds in CoF, which is lvl 75. I started to think, “this is 3x the damage I was putting out with a nearly 3k attack, 40 crit, 80 crit damage AH build.” In overworld events I’ve come close to 18k whirlwinds at 80.

Another thing I have come to realize: reviving a teammate is the most powerful heal in the game. It’s fast if you have aware teammates, and going down doesn’t have to be a bad thing. It’s a fact zerkers go down but I found in groups where its all extreme DPS, going down wasn’t a bad at all since I could capitalize on it with Honor IV Protective Reviver – it was an effective way of healing, reducing passive damage, and supporting the team that I never get to use on tanky (but DPS ineffectual builds) that other players use. Running with a hammer and Signet of Judgement, that trait alone gave me the tankiness of valor guardian (without the healing).

Downed status is a design apparatus to make up for the lack of a trinity in this game. Berzerkers capitalize the most on this feature. Guardians have some of the best innate defenses built into the class, and the fact that we can get so tanky using blinds/blocks/dodge allows us to further take advantage of “moar deeps”.

So the build I’m running is a 20/25/0/25/0 build. For solo it destroys anything I touch by opening with virtue of justice, symbol from 2h sword, leap, WW. I find the resource runs to be twice as fast, event farming even faster, wvwvw zerg rushing to be okay (using a pvt wep); in dungeons I still offer great support through aoe blinds, high dps with mild control, and still decent sustain through dodge healing/GS healing. Running with an engineer and warrior just scales so well with the build its quite silly.

Making the switch literally changed the game for me. Mastering dodge, timing of active mitigation, and crazy dps has made high armor and healing simply wasted on me. This is only more clearly shown in groups where cross buffing and debuffing is more prevalent. I was a limiting factor in how long fights took by speccing for more defense than my skill ceiling had risen to.

I’m not advocating that DPS is all you should spec for and that tank builds are useless. This is obviously not the case for sPvP at all. Wvwvw also has plenty of room for all types. I’ve just evolved is all. If you havent tried it yet – its a rush and I recommend it.
So, here ya go. Look it over and give me some advice if youve been down this path and have any recommendations.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.5|1.1g.h2|6.1g.h4|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|2t.e13.2t.e13.3t.d19.2t.e13.3t.d19.2v.e13|k27.p29.0.p29.0|2e.1|v.18.1b.1a.1i|e

(For solo pve I actually drop the Renewed Focus for the Sylvari Hound and Signet of Judgement for Retreat- more dps. For groups I drop Superior Aria for Protective Reviver (Honor IV), for Fractal Maw I use Staff/Scepter+Focus and drop GS Power for Scepter Power in Zeal)

Does it really matter? Play what you like and play for fun.

Jut don’t cry when others idea of fun doesn’t include a tank. Instead of forcing your idea of fun on others, find like minded people to group with instead. This works for all aspects of the game.

No one is forcing you to go full dps- just don’t expect others to accept your play style if it conflicts with their idea of fun.

wolfpaq.7354:

Proteus.6320:

Unless they are dredge.

So you’re telling me that blind may not be effective against monsters that are immune to blind?

Are you sure?

You may want to also point out that aegis/block won’t protect from fall damage and that Guardians can’t use daggers while you’re busy pointing out the obvious there.

Yeh you may have wanted to point that out to the level 14 OP.

Op: at 40 retrait to 15 radiance and 5 virtues. You’re set to 80.

wolfpaq.7354:

sword + focus + 5 points in the radiance traits gives you 3 different ways of blinding your foes on very reasonable cooldowns (2 of which are AoE!).

You can chain them together along with your aegis to kill enemies without suffering damage.

Unless they are dredge.

The best depends on what you’re doing.

If you want to be the best at everything, that will require multiple sets of armor and retraining for each activity.

It you’re looking for an all around best, that will entirely depend on your playable.

For ME the “best” is “what can I get away with without retraiting or gear swapping and do the majority of he game”.

I’ve narrowed it down to a single 2h build that let’s me do pve, dungeons, wvwvw, and guild activities with a single set of gear only using different weapons (pvt) for wvwvw. In spvp I use a different build however, since I can and its easy to change.

Behold!! Full zerker armor/weps, zerker/vitality ascendent jewelry, scholar runes. GS/staff/hammer with backup scepter/focus. Force in hammer/gs, bloodlust in staff, scepter with leech and focus with air. Maintains 14k hp, scales ridiculously well for dps.
20/25/0/25/0

gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.5|1.1g.h2|6.1g.h4|1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e.1g.7e|4t.d1f.2t.0.3t.0.2t.0.3t.0.2v.0|k27.p29.0.p29.0|0.0|v.1a.1b.18.1i|e

Expect to go down sometimes. Expect teammates to go down. The most powerful heal in the game that is practically spamable (with aware teammates) is getting someone up from downed status. In dungeons ill typically drop the -20% shout cd (save yourselves and stand your ground sometimes swapped with a signet) for the 10 seconds of regen/protection/aegis for me and the downed player upon revival. That single trait is a game changer for zerk groups.

Being tank entirely depends on what you want to do, and where the meta has evolved to.

Early in the game tanky was good for a lot of pve and dungeons. As players skill and gear and knowledge grow more complete the reliance on tanky goes down.

I think tanky guardians are great for running in Zergs in wvwvw, but in a lot of other places that tankiness is wasted.

Above all play what is fun, but also expect others to do the same. If you find a group that wants extreme dps, and are built as a tank- instead of asking them to accept your style of play, move on and find a group without that restriction.

Not to say the spirit builds don’t work… But I was never able to get one to perform the way I could get other builds too.

I’d be interested in seeing one that works well given all the sacrifices that have to be made.

I was able to solo it using hammer/gs (force/force, bloodlust on staff) and a 20/25/0/25/0 build, full zerker weps/armor, zerk/vital ascendent neck/rings, cavalier back, celestial exotic accessories until I get zerk/vital earrings. Lyssa runes; I swap often for a 0/10/30/10/20 build for wvwvw using same gear but PVT wep swap. Any recommendations on another rune set for the dps version?

Hammer 3/4/5 and gs 3/5 combined with wrath/bane signet and JI, with Druid summon sylvari racial for end.

Its so strange to see how divided the community is over builds. Why not just have multiple sets of armor and change specs to what fits the situation best? Isnt that what the devs wanted us to do?

I posted a 0/15/30/20/5 build (similar your paladin spec) 9 days before Brutaly posted a crithammer guide back in September of last year. I’ve studied the meta intensely but rarely post. My style of play evolves with the content I’m doing.

Does everyone forget that having high toughness makes you a magnet? I’ve found the 0/10/30/10/20 stunning styles build to be just as awesome as the 0/15/30/20/5 in PvE in terms of anchoring a team of 4 DPS, allowing them go crazy full out DPS without getting aggro. I can literally take so much punishment that the boss hardly moves and my teams DPS gets to really unload, instead of 5 zerker players juggling aggro, getting downed left and right, etc etc. In PvP the build is downright beastly.

I’m not sure why PVT+support builds get so much negative feedback from the zerker crowd regarding pve – dont you want an anchor to hold aggro who is super tough, so that you can unload your DPS without too much concern? Absolute Resolution + AH is a ton of sustain that doesnt require using dodge rolls to heal, can save them for actually dodging.

I see zerkers being good for a few things, speed runs of dungeons being one of the few. In everything else, they fall over so fast its silly. Specially wvwvw. If I blind/block/dodge a zerkers initial burst, they are in for a world of trouble usually, specially after the retaliation starts going.

Anyways to me the point of going 30 valor isnt for AH, thats just a side benefit. Its for crit damage to pump up dps and toughness to draw aggro to be a better anchor. Having it also reduce direct damage and heal is a side benefit.