Guild Wars 2

shouldnt you not win a 2v1 anyway? If the game is balanced pulling off a 2v1 should require a lot of luck/good execution

thats actually a pretty reasonable spread overall though, across the 8

didnt know this skill existed. 6/8 sec 1200 teleport … uumm yeeeeeaaahhhh ok. And i thought my shortbow thief was dodgy. reroll mesmer!
Is it targetable or like an auto backwards teleport?
edit: just read above post, ok u need an enemy and only 400ish distance then? Not as hot then as i first thought. Still sweet.

I play a thief, sb main with s/p swap. In my experience good DD eles are OP: too much healing, protection, speed, stability, damage, whatever. I havent actually played an ele though so I can only speak from thief point of view. Suspect they will get a nerf next patch. So will thief, but if they nerf burst and bunkers, game will be better.

the point is to be the best Jerry, the best! one build to rule them all, mwaahahahaha…. Or to have fun at least some of the time. I get the two mixed up dangnabbit Reba

Ps – think new game modes are essential to prevent pvp sliding further into the ditch of despair.

Unfortunately it appears thief bs burst builds are here to stay, which is quite worrying from a fellow thief’s point of view. Worse are the outrageous bunkers in a game about holding points. Thing is…. i still have lots of fun with this game’s pvp regardless. Sure I would like to see a nerf to both burst and bunker in the next patch, but who knows.

Yea, oh mighty Anet, bring forth thy nerfs and bugging frenzy upon thine poorest of yer servants, the lowly thief. What ho, 40% damage reduction say ye on mug? Oh yea! Flanking strike swinging us into trees and rocks like never before? Gratitude! Pistol pistol too hard to fix, ye say? Deleted it be? Oh heavenly yea, yea upon yea, yea glorious as can be! Oh Woe betide us cutpurse brothers be. Yet must we wait and see. And now it be time to pee.

Jumper.9482:

I think the game is fairly balanced other than ele downstate and res signets…
Sure, Necro may do twice the dps as a thief as AoE, but it requires clutch positioning and awareness to do so… [snip] … As the game is now, its pretty much whoever’s Necro is left standing wins. Just ignore every other class other than thief unless he gets in melee range (meaning he has a deathwish).

Necro isnt a problem? Sounds like a big problem to me

Watched the 2nd video link by zone, looked good. Wish GW2 had longer combat. Too much burst in this game, folks.

bunker builds have been a problem from the get go. boon removal is rare outside of necros. they need a general nerf. Burst also needs nerf, just not as big a nerf as bunkers.

DD ele is new fotm.

I think they should be able to get a rough balance going. One which means lots of different builds are viable. But it seems like a mammoth task. Still they should be trying for it. At the moment bunker and burst are still too strong, imo, both need toning down. Then we might get some viable balanced builds.

I dont really understand your argument … vengeance or something makes current ele bunker ok, then? Ah who knows but what i would like to see on the next balance patch is minor nerf to burst damage across the board, and moderate nerf to bunker builds. With anet however i expect to see nerf ele, nerf thief, but not necessarily in a way which ends up helping the game overall, hahahaha. Ive seen enough patches to not get my hopes up with this one, either …

You will never get proper balance in an mmo, as OP points out, too many variables. It is the goal they should be striving for nonetheless, as closer to balanced they get, better the game will be. They have given themselves a headache however with the stealth and clone classes. Harder to balance than usual.

If any build can hold 4v1 it needs a big nerf. Even holding 2v1 indefinitely needs a big nerf, it will unbalance the game (in fact imo even holding 1v1 needs a nerf, if the other class has no chance to beat you). Every class should be able to 1v1 any other class i reckon (not sure if this is feasible, how it works in most mmos?)

hmm ^ agree, actually. And i play thief.

Siva Mira.3546:

Next patch:

Thief:
-when a Thief goes into stealth he also goes into downstate.

Warrior:
-when a Warrior has Revenge on him he can not be killed until he got his revenge.

oh man that was kittening funny, lmao

What build are you playing Nerva? Maybe the caltrops condition thief is just the counter to your build. No one build should be able to take all comers, should it? Does your build do well most of the time, against most opponents? If yes then perhaps you have just met your counter build is all. If no then perhaps your build needs tweaking. I dont find caltops over powering (I play shortbow main thief, most of the time). Yes you have to get off the point, but there are plenty of powers that make you leave an area

OP is complaining about being beaten as an ele bunker in a 2v1…. Isn’t that working as intended? If bunker required 3v1 it would be stupid. Even 2v1 means something is wrong in the basic balance of the game. Imo bunkers need moderate nerf, nad burst needs a minor nerf. Then might see some build variety in this increasingly stagnant game.

Zone, dude, harsh. Yeah folks play to get better, but hell some more incentives to play besides “I’m the best, byeaaah!!!” should be welcome – why the hell not? Why cant we have both?

I’m starting to feel the grind of the whole PvP scene myself now. Some new modes would be awesome in my book. The game needs a big casual base to grow into an esport doesnt it? Yay for pro-teams but if there are no casuals interested in watching them, guess what… no esport. And all those hours of training – wasted.

Mesmer complaining about thief,…. ahhh wut? distortion evades doesnt it?

I think blue and red colours should be disabled in PvP… it gets a bit confusing when an ally of yours is wearing the other teams colour. Otherwise…. no complaints!

I played PP for a long time but eventually swapped to SB. As noted above i feel like it is the superior weapon most of the time. I would change my mind however (in certain instances) if they simply increased the pistol 1 skill attack speed. Boost PP direct sustained damage capability and it would see more use i think. PP is still great fun however, and you do get the pistol 4 interrupt on demand.

Arheundel.6451:

Psikerlord.2569:

I thank Jericho for his post, he is obviously an experienced ele, but what it seems to suggest to me is that bunker eles are indeed OP: 3 stunbreakers, tons of condition removal, speed/mobility, big healing, control effects… and yet still able to deal reasonable damage… but perhaps it comes back to basic ele class design and the 4 attunements.

Trouble with drawing out a fight against an ele is that a thief only has so much burst, and the ele knows it. A good ele will manage/wait out the shortbow or pistol ranged attrition, negate the burst and then the cycle begins again – either something will come off CD for the next burst – or the fight takes so long that allies arrive (and then it goes the way of superior numbers). But the ele has achieved his purpose of keeping the point and wins by default.

You just described how every single bunker works in this game : a) multiple conditions removal b) high defense c) multiple stun breaker

How is this any different from guardians/mesmer/engineers…and thief condition with traps? I see no difference outside a biased opinion

I can only call it as i see it. In my experience the ele is harder to kill than guard bunker, does more damage, and has vastly better mobility. But perhaps i just need more practice learning their powers etc, wait till they come out of water attunement, and so on. I’m sure i can get better. But my feeling is still that ele has it particularly good in the current iteration… I’ll be interested to see what happens next patch (no doubt thief nerfs, aaaaaahhhhh). I play shortbow main with sword/pistol finisher, generally.

I agree with the OP idea. Love it actually. A short blur to target teleport would go a long way to fixing all “instant” teleport abilities. Give them a .5 sec cast time and i think you will also prevent the pre-cast skill combos (like CnD steal and that ele earthquake-lightning flash or whatever it is).

I feel like the extreme burst and extreme bunker is too much in this game – eg: bs burst thief, mesmer stun burst, ele healing bunker. For me, fight durations in the range of about 10-20 sec’s would be perfect. At the moment though you have some 2 sec fights, and some which never end. If they can reign in super burst and super bunker i think they’ll have a great game on their hands. If not….. weeeeeellll the exodus shall continue?

The way SR works you can also sometimes use is as a bit of misdirection. Pop SR, then pop another stealth skill which I think will give you 3-4 sec stealth that wont end when you leave the SR. So opponent thinks you’re in the SR… but you quickly run around behind him and backstab/pistol whip/whatever. To be honest i havent tried this but i am sure someone did it to me recently, and i thought – you sneaky kitten!!! hahah

There will be a patch with the wintersday content 14 Dec wont there? Surely there will be. There was with the last event….

re: 2 – I resisted using haste for a long time, expecting it to be removed from the game, but it hasnt been. So… if you’re a thief and not running backstab burst combo, you are probably running a haste combo of some kind (or going condition damage). In any event, quickness is there for a few classes, its on a sigil, and i think a rune set i cant rem – but point is, the Devs have had plenty of chances to remove it and they havent. Seems like it’s here to stay. Personally i would prefer a game without any super crazy burst (or bunker – the two are related) in any form. But we have to work with what we’ve got. Still a fun game.

i would love to see a thief bunker, you would have the element of surprise if nothing else! Some of these sound like reasonable ideas, and agree stealth would generally be a no no. The other problem i foresee is very little stability. Thieves have almost no access to it. That’s going to be a big problem isnt it?

My set up is logitech G300 mouse – attacks 1-5 on the extra buttons it has on top of the mouse. WASD movement, disable keyboard turn, use right mouse to turn.
Q- steal
E – heal
R,F,V – util 1-3
B- elite
N – stow weapon (cancel)
tab – switch target
caps – switch weapon
shift – dodge
alt- look behind
hope this helps

I thank Jericho for his post, he is obviously an experienced ele, but what it seems to suggest to me is that bunker eles are indeed OP: 3 stunbreakers, tons of condition removal, speed/mobility, big healing, control effects… and yet still able to deal reasonable damage… but perhaps it comes back to basic ele class design and the 4 attunements.

Trouble with drawing out a fight against an ele is that a thief only has so much burst, and the ele knows it. A good ele will manage/wait out the shortbow or pistol ranged attrition, negate the burst and then the cycle begins again – either something will come off CD for the next burst – or the fight takes so long that allies arrive (and then it goes the way of superior numbers). But the ele has achieved his purpose of keeping the point and wins by default.

Have to agree – GW2 is totally worth it, on many fronts. My only fear is how long PvP will last in the long term. New PvP game modes would help a lot i think

All good points Caff and I thank you for them.

On the boon removal sigil – 10 sec CD is pretty poor compared to reapplication of boons. But it is another option as you suggest. I’ll give it a go.

On a design level i disagree about 2v1 ought to be required to beat a tank (if that’s what you are saying). Imo every class should be able to solo every other class. That should be the balance game designers are aspiring to (although perhaps this is impossible, i dont know, certainly true balance is not possible outside of something like chess etc). In that scenario it might be the case that tanks tend to lose on average against burst – but that would be made up for by the fact that the tank holds the point for a very long time, contributing to the win in a different way (and in other cases tank would prevail or hold out long enough for help to arrive, etc, achieving their purpose).

I find eles the hardest target to down in recent times. From what i can tell (and i dont play ele, i suppose i should but i dont have the time) it is all about their long lasting boons. Swiftness + ride the lightning etc = very mobile, you will not catch one easily if they decide to disengage (ie even if you manage to get them low, they will flee and you will not catch them – then again many complain about this for the thief, so maybe i should keep my mouth shut!). They heal like crazy. Stability and protection long uptimes. I have actually switched my build to 20 points trickery to get the remove 2 boons on steal trait to see how that goes. But if we are supposed to rely on boon removal to win against ele that is pretty poor – must trait trickery or must use s/d for flanking strike?

I would like to see bodyblocking. If they can give you the option to turn it on, they should be able to make everyone turn it on automatically shouldnt they? Could be an easy fix. Why keep it off?

Evil, it’s not just your spec. The whole game falls apart with organised teams, pure bunkers and burst far as the eye can see. Hotjoin 5v5 is where the fun is.

I’m pretty sure mesmers are one of the top, if not the top, pvp 1v1 class. And their elites are awesome: bird = win 1v1 or sometimes 2v1 or 10sec quickness elite = crazy good. My suggestion is have a go at one. it helps to understand where they just ported to/if they stealthed, etc etc. Still very difficult opponents. Who knows you might stick with mesmer once you roll one. Greatsword is fun..

All i know is there seem to be less and less playing PvP by the week. I am not interested in WvW and ascended gear or PvE grind. I think things will get worse with xmas and other games being released.

On the other hand $60 for about 3 months good fun was worth it. Feels like wasted potential however.

Hi Anet. I pretty much only play PvP and consider myself hardcore casual – play most nights for say 2 hours. My feedback on the thief:

1. It’s great fun to play. Love the stealth and dodgy style.

2. The QQ comes from the extreme BS burst build opener – the precaset CnD – steal mug trait – which causes about 6-10K instantly. The thief is then also stealthed, and if they use the immobilise/stun poison, the target is dead unless they stunbreak. Even if they do stunbreak, a squishie is almost dead and the fight has only just begun. I think majority of the community feels this is unfair (and indeed for all similar super quick burst like mesmer stun burst, equally hard to avoid). The 33% CnD nerf does not fix this problem, it just reduces the opener dmg by about 600-2K – and even worse nerfs more balanced offhand dagger builds which alas pigeon holes even more thief players into BS burst builds… My preferred fix would be to give steal a .5 sec cast time, preventing CnD pre-cast, which will give the opener the 2.5-5K mug, and then target gets a second to avoid the CnD, which gives them that all important fighting chance. Yes, i know thieves could still use infiltrator signet (or possibly shadowstep util, but not as easily) to shadowstep and do the old CnD precast combo, but that has an opportunity cost on the utility bar, and does not come with the mug dmg, either. Alternatively… get rid of mug. Give us some other cool trait that somehow helps with sustained damage, rather than burst.

3. Dual Pistols need a boost. Pistol 2 is terrible. Pistol 1 is a weird hybrid of direct and condition damage. Maybe add something more to the trait which increases pistol dmg by 5% – for example perhaps also increases the speed of unload by 50% or something, I dont know. But pistol direct damage needs a buff to make it competitive with shortbow. Perhaps increase the bounce chance trait, it is so low at the moment no-one takes it i’m sure. I mean actually i would prefer if the shortbow 1 skill and pistol 1 skill were swapped over (giving some AoE to the pistol, and more condition dmg to the bow).

4. Please fix the flanking strike pathing. That set would be great but for this longstanding bug.

5. Re haste – i would prefer it not be in the game at all, but if it is in the game, thieves ought to have it. They need it for their burst. In my experience the higher rank PvP players all have ways to negate/avoid a quickness burst, especially given thieves have almost no access to stability (putting aside the daggerstorm cancel 8 sec stability or about 5 sec stability from the mesmer steal power). When i try quickness burst with pistolwhip i often get feared/stunned interrupt. I dont feel like it is OP.

Thanks for reading, hope this somehow helps.

Specifics: ranged – shortbow is my preference, SB1,2,3 are all good. Burst: steal haste PW is what i use. I save my steal, i dont open with it. I find rangers are quite controllable… Healing eles or guards with continual pets on the other hand I find very difficult indeed!!

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Psikerlord.2569:

Daggerstorm. Also works a treat vs warrior rifle or anyone you want to cripple from 900. Enjoy

Rangers have melee weapons, and usually are carrying traps that’ll destroy a thief who does this.

1v1 daggerstorm is horrible, unless your enemy has no access to non-projectile attacks.

If/when the ranger switches to melee, stay at 900 with your daggerstorm, or cancel DS and switch to your ranged and ping ping ping, then commence burst, etc… many options. But main point is the daggerstorm eilte forces the ranger into melee, or at least sits him there eating free damage… after which … commence burst. win.
Re traps – agree – stay out of them. kill ranger first. then cap point.

Is this serious? OP is complaining about dieing in a 3v1? how about it’s ridiculously OP that an ele can outlast a 2v1 for a very long time. EVery class should be able to 1v1 every other class, that would be a balance. Jesus kittening christ. Bunker ele needs the nerf.

Having said all that, Anet should have added a .5 sec cast time to steal ages ago. The 33% nerf to CnD was about 1-2K on the bs burst build, which doesnt fix anything. Fast losing faith in this game.

Greetings my shadowy brothers. Gather round that i might whisper ye my vexing question…. How the kitten do we kill bunker eles??

I play sb and sword/pistol finisher and the amount of protection/stability/swiftness/healing the bunker eles have seems crazy good. Cant get them down, we just go round and round, till someone else joins for a 2v1, or myself or the ele flees (and he is uncatchable, even with my speed buffs and shadowstep, wtf?)

Frustrating! Do i have to go 20 trickery and take the trait that rips 2 boons on steal? Is flanking strike the way to go with it’s unblockable 1 boon removal on first hit?

Any tips appreciated. Cheers

Daggerstorm. Also works a treat vs warrior rifle or anyone you want to cripple from 900. Enjoy

I think its too late for changes to steal, if they were going to change it it would have happened by now. Perhaps some change via modified traits, dunno. It is mostly useful for melee and i think you just have to work with that when deciding on your build/options

Still better than 8v8 zerg, and you tend to get more people playing the objectives in 5v5 too. If you run really low and its 2v3 etc well, not much you can do about that, i usually ask folks if they want to do duels instead, haha, many do and thats fun too. you wont find that in 8v8

Can you change characters in the middle of a map? Or just between matches?

I agree and suspect many players dont even realise there is a 5v5 option

Playing thief sb and s/p i find bunker eles very difficult, since the patch more difficult than bunker guards. My feeling is they are a little over strong and may see an adjustment next patch, whenever that might be. On the other hand someone mentioned immobilising them at the correct time can work well – perhaps i need to figure that trick out. I would be surprised if immob made very much diff though