Guild Wars 2

PD joined SoR before transfer fees too.

To the MERC charr warrior who got in behind the gate of Sunnyhill by accident,

You sir, are a credit to your guild. Jumping off the side of the keep and leaving as fast as you could.

Thank you sir.

Durzlla.6295:

Um…. if you’re just now realizing that Ele is the Hybrid prof of the game i’m kinda thinking you should get your eyes checked…

That being said they don’t want ele to be the BEST at anything, they’re certainly not going to be the worst at anything.

EX: An ele will NOT have the damage of a warrior, but it’s going to have high damage, and it WONT be as mobile as a thief, but it will still be one of the most mobile profs (or can be). etc.

Why roam on a class that can be caught by any other class save the necro very easily.

Why support on a class that can be outclassed in boon generation by the guardian?

Why do damage on a class that can be outdone by a warrior or a thief?

If you are second best at everything, it means you don’t shine at anything save doing everything. It means there is no need in a coordinated group to have this class, as there really is no need to bring the second best, when you can have the best.

This stream was just disappointing.

You say that you don’t want the elementalist to be the fastest class, ok, fine, then up their base survivability. Period. At this time, almost any class except an engineer or a necro can and will catch you most of the kitten time (yes, even the guardian can) and there will be little you can do about it unless you blow your god kitten elite to get away. Your elite that is on such a kittening long cooldown. Either up base survivability, or up mobility since you do not want “heals” to impact the game too much. Make your kitten minds up.

And your last bit about “Jack of all trades masters of none” answer just sounds like “delete your elementalist” since all other classes will specialize in something and you will be ok in everything. There would be no point in bringing an elementalist to do anything if this ends up being true. Want damage? bring a warrior. Want a tank? bring a guardian. Want condition damage? bring an engineer or a necro. Your answer to this means that this class will have no real niche, no real role since there will ALWAYS be someone who can do it better than your class. Meaning, there is no reason for the class to exist. There is no reason to bring a class that is “ok” at everything since you can craft a group that has a specialist in the area to have a group that has the best in everything.

This is saddening that you cannot envision something better for such an amazing class. The mechanics are awesome and fun and challenging, but your ideas just end up crapping on the class more. You have made the class one of the easiest to catch, with the lowest base health, and relatively average damage (even when you spec for burst you need to blow 10 skills to kill something) and have removed its ability to disengage or give it some breathing room to heal up properly or try to survive.

Staff still sucks in anything but a zerg. There is no real reason to leave the water/arcane line for many people as the damage you gain is more often than not, not enough to overcome the inherent squishiness of the class. Both lines are a crutch, yes. But they’re a crutch for a reason because mostly without them, there is just little they can do that another class cannot just outclass you with. The scepter/dagger burst builds are fun. Yes they do awesome damage. You still don’t come close to the damage a thief or a warrior can do. You can heal very well, second to only the guardian.

There is just nowhere the class shines. The class is an all arounder and the game play in this game just doesn’t need it. Other classes roam better. Other classes fronline better. Other classes can support better. Where is it that one can say, kitten this is where I need an elementalist. Static field? yay! one ability on a 40 second cooldown that is unique to only us. I love the elementalist class. I will always play it. But come on. Do something with it to make it unique and useful in some sort of niche that isn’t one freaking ability and the ability to aoe downed players.

Your vision needs glasses. And better ideas.

Doesn’t seem to break the stun if you are stunned and change to earth while the stun is still up.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Also for fresh air trait, there is no 5 secs cd, is the description wrong or is the trait itself malfunctioning atm?

There is a cooldown, it procs from when you crit, not when you leave/enter air. It’s from crit to crit it seems.

Yea T1 is kinda hard to find good fights that don’t turn into a 1vX really quick. It’s why I tend to run with a group (5 or so people) so that it can be even. But not too many people solo roam.

process execution.8014:

Baladir.2736:

Nice use of Zephyr’s Focus. Thank you.

+1! I’ve been agonizing over choosing between Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina. But with ER as my heal and the number of channelled skills in S/D, Zephyr’s Focus solves all my Endurance woes.

This patch really has opened up build diversity; I’d been dependent on 30 Arcane for so long I’d pretty much forgotten about sneaky little traits like this!

Vigor is all around better as it recharges the endurance faster, but it’s good enough for PVE. You can also spam Phoenix just to get the vigor while running aruond in that part.

Glad I can help.

I would have joined this time around, but I have exams! I’ll get in next time! Good luck all!

Zenith.7301:

Shiyo.3578:

I don’t think they made any new ele builds viable in SPVP. Guardians also did not gain a viable build, overall, this patch added a bunch of new PVE builds but almost no PVP ones for most classes(probably almost all?).

What pve builds did they add? Everything outside lightning hammer ele is bad for PvE, so please take your spvp martyr complex somewhere else.

And Lightning Hammer is only good if you have a good group comp with competent players. I would never take that into a pug group.

I would disagree that it is the only good PVE build. There are a few new Fresh Air builds that work very well in PvE as well that I took into a 42 fractal earlier today. And certainly work well for the new dungeon and the old dungeons too. They might not do as much damage as the LH build true, but it can be used in pugs, which I don’t think that LH can be.

Jabberwock.9014:

I was using zerk amulet with 0/30/0/20/20.

The dragon tooth tip is actually huge. Didn’t know you could do that, and with its low cooldown it should help a lot. The might stacking is icing on the cake.

You could try a Valkyrie amulet with berserker jewel. You “should” have enough crit with all the fury you would be building up from the constant swaps to Air with Fresh air. Might help with the survivability.

You use Phoenix and Fire Ring AND Dragons Tooth to AOE the area around you. It isn’t a waste if it’s protecting you and damaging the thief. To use Dragons Tooth above you angle your camera down to the floor and use the ability. It should spawn above you.

Another thing, if the Air auto attack works like the Ranger Longbow attack that fires a lot of arrows, then you will still hit the thief in stealth. Don’t hold me to that, as I don’t know if the mechanics are the same, though they should be as they are both channeled attacks.

If you were doing this in sPvP, what amulet where you using? If in WvW, what is your gear like? I don’t normally have too much trouble with thieves using my build as I can hit them hard, heal more than they can and it’s ranged. The second I see a thief coming my way I will use the Air blind and try to dodge the incoming attack. Difficult, but needs to be done. If I don’t want to dodge I’ll Ring of Fire and Phoenix the area around me to make them back off or reveal themselves and use the hurl +lightning strike + electric discharge + arcane blast to hit them more.

Thieves in general are more difficult for S/D because you don’t have the Shocking Aura that D/D does and need to time those crucial CC’s better. You can also use water 2 around you to try to hit them or make them waste more time in stealth since they might want to avoid that.

Your “Oh kitten” button is your blinds/knockdowns and using Trident + Cleansing wave a lot. If you are running, launch Phoenix behind you and use your heal. If you still have him targeted, spam that lightning strike, arcane blast and blind while you are healing. With the new Fresh Air trait, that is even easier to do to spam that Lightning Strike and Electric discharge making your opponent use more cooldowns or back off giving you time to heal.

Baladir.2736:

XcmGT.3847:

I really like this build, however, you can get destroyed in dungeons if you miss a dodge or stay in too long. I preferred your other version you posted prior to this one, I had more options to heal with evasive arcana…I’m going to add in full PVT gear with Beserk Acc. to see if it off sets the issues I mentioned prior.

/signed. I changed my build and went into the new dungeon last night and really missed my healing. I don’t think anyone can evade those aoes from the cannons on the second boss for long no matter how well they dodge or how lucky they are.

I think this kind of build is more of a PvP kind of thing.

I ran the new instance using a 0/30/0/30/10 build:
Air – Zephyrs Boon/Zephyrs Focus/Fresh Air
Water – Vital Striking/Cleansing Wave/Soothing Disruption
Arcana – Elemental Attunement

and it was fine. Just need to learn how to dodge/stay still during the cannon phase. The thing is don’t dodge unless you have to. Find that little area between the circles and stand still in it and don’t move till you see the red circles again and see that open area and move to it quickly only saving your dodge if you can’t get there in time. I after each dodge I used when I was standing still in the safe zone or even while moving to a new safe zone I would just channel the Air auto attack as 1 channel with Zephyrs Focus will give you 1 dodge.

Hehe I ran into you yesterday once, I kept looking for you and chatted with you in whispers. We have similar builds that accomplish the same thing (thanks for your input btw), but you just have way more practice at it than me. After facing you once I spent the entire night practicing that Earthquake + Lightning Flash + Hurl + Electric Discharge + Lightning Strike that you used one me opener on everyone I came across. People were kitten ed :p

That duel was fun, short and sweet as a duel between burst builds should be. Whoever is better wins. I’ll keep looking for you, and keep refining my gear as I’m still using a lot of my tanky gear/runes from before patch.

Great duel! I learned a few things from ya! Looking forwards to more!

daphoenix.4283:

Hey guys,

Here’s my favorite builds so far post patch. They both revolve around “Fresh Air” since it is extremely powerful (broken too, but still probably powerful after hotfix).

I use for the most part the same armor / gear setup:
Gear : http://tinyurl.com/daphoenixBuild6

0/30/10/0/30
Traits:
For S/D
Air – > 10% more damage in air, 20% more damage if target <33% HP, Fresh Air (Recharge air attunement upon critical)
Earth -> 10% more damage if <600 units away
Arcana -> Standard traits -> 5,6,11

For Staff
Earth-> At 50% Hp, gain armor of earth
Arcana -> Blasting staff trait over the vigor trait

Skillset -> Ether Renewal. Mistform, LF, Armor of Earth. Fiery GreatSword

Logic behind traits chosen: It is essential to either have 15 water (passive heal), or 30 arcana (EA) as these are your 2 main healing methods. Since you need 30 points in air, you can’t have 15 in water while having 30 in arcana, thereby reducing the recharge rate of water15’s passive heal. So 30 in arcana is logical, plus it offers low CD attunements.

Fresh Air is so effective because it procs air15’s passive, a lightning strike that deals single target damage if enemy is in range combined with the instant S/D’s air 2 lightning strike. You can essentially cast get free 4 single target air15 spells within a ~10second duration, totaling to 4~8k damage. You need to have other attunements ready to swap in and out of air constantly, hence the 30 in arcana. Constantly swapping in and out of air offers another feature -> permanent fury through swapping attunements, and permanent swiftness through arcana 5.

Stone splitters is chosen due to its reliable 10% DPS; you are going to be fighting enemies <600 units most of the time to land fire spells.

Alternate build
0/30/0/20/20
Air -> Same as above
Water -> 3,8 (Cantrips grant regen and vigor, and 50% reduced fall dmg)
Arcana -> 5,6

This build is similar to the one above, but offers a different set of utility / defense

I figured out a similiar build around Fresh Air as well for S/D, been using it since the patch. It’s a lot of fun, but you do end up in Air a lot, or just switching into it a lot for the passive 15.

I’m using 0/30/0/30/10 with the following traits:
Air – Zephyrs Boon/Bolt to the Heart/Fresh Air
Water – Vital Striking/Cleansing Wave/Soothing Disruption
Arcana – Elemental Attunement

In PVE I change Bolt to the Heart for Zephyrs Focus for the endurance regeneration though, seems to be more useful. And I know that Scepter/Dagger only has 1 aura, but it helps to keep that perma fury/swiftness up. Though I might change it out for the 10% Air damage since you are in it so much (more so than Water where you would use to switch for Piercing Shards).

I use Arcane Blast, Lightning Flash and Mistform. The lack of stability is killer though, so I’m trying to find a way to get it by switching in Armor of Earth for Mistform if I’m alone (I have a Guardian with me normally who gives out stability like crazy so if I’m with her I don’t need it). Dropping Lightning flash means you cant do a few combos that are nice like Lightning Flash + Earthquake/Churning Earth, and Mistform is hard to give up cause of the invulnerability. Though that lack of stability versus hammer guardians and warriors is just painful, but you can get around it with using Lightning Flash around the place and good dodging.

I find Arcane Blast to be super useful with the whole burst sequence plus since it’s a guaranteed crit, it will refresh your Air attunement if you lack something at that time to use. Plus it does a decent amount of damage (mine does anywhere between 2.5k-3.8k) and I’d rather not drop it since it helps put out the pressure. The build definitely packs a big punch, can take even tanky guardians to 50-60% and keep them there and pressure them to blow cooldowns and dodges while you wail at them from a distance and kill them with repeated burst sequences of Hurl + Electric Discharge + Lightning Strike + Arcane Blast. I also throw in Blinding Flash a lot for a good blind to help with the lack of stability.

Big Problem is Phoenix though. It moves faster (which is AWESOME) but it seems to miss when it returns unless you are standing still. You see the animation of it returning and your character “inhaling” or absorbing it, but you don’t get the vigor or the cleansing that you should be.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Also keep in mind Fresh air doesn’t have cd atm (there’s no 5 secs cd) so that should be fixed soon and I know this because I crit on every attack.. as soon as I change, my first attack on another attunement keeps bringing back air att. It’s broken.

I dunno, I mean the swaps for me are happening 1 second before my LS comes off cooldown, so I don’t see it. But this new trait makes putting pressure on targets a whole lot easier with those swaps.

Im using a 0/30/0/30/10 S/D burst build in dungeons since the patch and it is awesome. It really smoothens out the play of S/D as you can now have perma fury and the 25 stacks of might.

I’ll need to hop into WvW to test it out, but i expect with the combo of hurl + air swap + lightning strike + arcane blast to do some 10k, maybe a bit more damage. I mean pre patch with a different build with less pwer/crit damage i was seeing 4k Lightning Strikes and 2-3k Electric Discharges, so this will be a great build to put pressure on targets with the constant swapping to air + lightning strike and other burst combos with the new improved phoenix will be deadly.

The Fresh Air procs pretty much on cooldown so long as you keep hitting stuff and the huge boost in swiftness and fury (something S/D had a bit of trouble keeping up) helps sooooo much. This is a pretty good boost for the S/D ele build.

huh… triple arcane builds incoming!

I can’t actually believe they gave a stun break to GoEP….. It’s just….. /facepalm doesn’t even cut it. I don’t think even /facedesk cuts it…..

Even the fact that they think that a 5 second cooldown reduction is a good tradeoff for a removal of a stunbreak just boggles the mind…. Lightning Flash was at a 45 second cooldown with a stunbreak, and now its at a 40 second cooldown without a stunbreak…. WTF….

I don’t want to make comments like… does anyone at Anet even play the elementalist to a level they might actually understand it, but sometimes I wonder….

Razor.6392:

Why won’t you reply to my post? perhaps I’m really close to guessing your build?

Just PM him, he’ll send it to you there. The build took me some 3 seconds to figure out from looking at his stats that he posted in a previous thread he made. I PM’ed him with a guess, he answered back very politely and with some of his own builds. Just do it that way and you’ll get your answer.

And after working on my own version of his build with my current gear for a S/D Burst build:

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|b.1g.h1h.8.1c.h4|0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71g.1g.a7.1c.71h.1g.a7.1c.71j.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.2v.0.3v.0.2v.d1e|0.p16.0.p56.k56|40.7|1l.1o.1u.1v.28|e

(That S/D burst build isn’t done yet, since I don’t have the runes I want in the armor just yet)

That hits people with Lightning Strike from 3.5k to about 4.3k on average with a few might stacks and such and no vulnerability. I’m sure if i added some more crit damage and crit and some power maybe, I could get the 5k with lightning strike easy as when I had full stacks of bloodlust and vulnerability on my target (5 stacks) I hit the 5k a few times. People melted with that setup right there. It was crazy. I do have to learn how to use it as I’m certainly more squishy (ive got like 300 less armor) and less condi clearing than I’m used to and no EA. That and I’ve got to learn to use those heals better (Trident and Cleansing Wave) with the timing since I lose health faster and am at range a bit. It’s all learning the playstyle. I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it soon enough. But that damage is there, anyone who gets hit with the full combo or even just the 3 hits of Pheonix is going to get hurt.

@Lightningblaze – Then yea that was you hitting me. I had to drop off that ram a few times to heal up because I was low on health. I know what you look like now! I’ll find you! hehe I love challenging fights against a good elementalist. You do have some great burst though and now I know how!

Since no one has seen this new torment condition in action, no one can really give a good way to work around it. I think the reason this was added was to directly counter the elementalist and to force it to use a cleanse to get it off as an anti-movement condition to the class that has to keep moving just goes hand in hand.

The only thing I can think of is that you will need to run a condition remover, if you don’t already and learn to look for the abilities that grant this condition and avoid them or just cleanse them.

As far as elementalists being useless in WvW, I heartily disagree. The elementalist (staff in particular) is a sought after commodity by all the commanders (at least in T1) due to the amount of control they offer with static field/frozen ground/unsteady ground and the buffs you give out. You can also roam very well using the standard 0/10/0/30/30 build in Dapheonix’s thread, and as someone mentioned, there is the S/D burst build that is also good for running with some people. Both of those specs are very good in WvW for running around in small mans (3-15) people. If you want to see some really good elementalist play in WvW I would suggest you read Dapheonix’s thread on the D/D elementalist, check out his videos. You can also look at Intigo’s twich channel and see another good elementalist from the Red Guard guild who runs a lot of GvG’s as well as just running around in WvW.

Since you asked for a S/D burst build with gear:

S/D Burst (WvW) – http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|b.1g.h1h.8.1c.h4|0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71g.1g.a7.1c.71h.1g.a7.1c.71j.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.2v.0.3v.0.2v.d1e|0.p16.0.p56.k56|40.7|1l.1o.1u.1v.28|e

That S/D burst build isn’t done yet, since I don’t have the runes I want in the armor just yet (runes of the Wurm or scholar, haven’t decided yet).

The nerfs that keep coming to the elementalist is due to the class being good at all the things in a certain gameplay. Before the game went live, ele’s had huge burst, people complained and it was nerfed. And by huge burst I meant HUGE. It’s PVP complaints that wash over to PVE/WVW. I await the day that the devs understand that a 5v5 or an 8v8 in a small map doesn’t represent the whole game as in PVE or WvW, those rules don’t always apply. It sucks, because people who don’t play sPVP are getting hit as well.

As these nerfs go on, more and more the class get’s difficult to play in anything short of a defensive build, as the damage while very good, the class lacks defensive mechanisms to live when it goes for such damage. We can always hope they reverse some of the nerfs (like RTL and the damage nerfs from beta) but I doubt it as they want the class to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Meaning that any class will be better at a specialization than you, but you will be more rounded. You wont be the best burster, or the best tank, but you can do a mix of both.

Mpiftekis.1529:

Snip

Oh no, you certainly misunderstood me then! I’m not here to troll or anything, I’m obviously as concerned as you about these new changes as this changes my own build. If it was understood that way, then that was certainly not my intentions. And on a side note, no one needs your schoolteacher attitude either, so check your attitude at the door as well. This could have been said in a PM too, not in public.

My intent was to say that the sky isn’t falling, that the build will still be used, and will still be good at what it does, which is survive and do good damage. We both know this to be true. It might just not do what you want it to do anymore. I wished it would have stayed as is, but that trait did allow you as a tanky spec to do a lot more damage than maybe was wanted as far as balance goes.

My own build is a mix of berserkers/cavaliers/knights/soldiers to get a balanced build and have been running without bountiful power for the last few days to see how much it would affect me. I am aware how much it does lower your damage, but it will still be useful (the spec that is)l. Those who want a more DPS build will lean more towards the air line, but would most likely still spec 20 or 30 in water anyway for the survivability which is still necessary for the class as a whole.

My builds are here:

D/D (WvW/PvE) -http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.1c.h1h.8.1g.h4|0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71g.1n.71g.1c.71h.1c.71h.1c.71j.1n.71j|2s.0.2v.d1e.3v.d1e.2v.0.3v.0.2v.d1e|0.a0.0.u35b.u56b|40.7|1l.1v.1u.1s.28|e

S/D Burst (WvW) – http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|b.1g.h1h.8.1c.h4|0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71g.1g.a7.1c.71h.1g.a7.1c.71j.1g.a7|2s.0.2s.d1e.3s.d1e.2v.0.3v.0.2v.d1e|0.p16.0.p56.k56|40.7|1l.1o.1u.1v.28|e

That S/D burst build isn’t done yet, since I don’t have the runes I want in the armor just yet.

You are correct that this WILL lower the damage of the tried and true 0/10/0/30/30 spec no doubt or any way around it. But it will at the end of the day still be a valid and useful option as a tank who does a bit less DPS than he did before. It will make that spec for people who actually want to have a defense oriented character or an all around-er as you can do some decent damage with the right gear. You can get around this (note i was not saying this as a “duh”, there are some people in WvW who refuse to add anything but PTV or Knights) by adding more offensive gear! Or similarly not spec into water (which should be a defensive trait line in nature) and get some more offensive stats/traits in Air.

I’ve always thought that that grandmaster trait was in the wrong spot altogether and should have been placed in the Air tree or the Fire tree. Would make more sense in the name of specializing the trees. I would have been more of a fan if they kept the trait as is and moved it to the Air tree. That would have made some incredible burst builds.

I do think that overall though this does lower the average output of damage on the class, and wasn’t warranted. I think it was fine as it was, as the “tank” elementalist gained damage at the loss of toughness and vitality and no real active mitigation like a blind or aegis. We got damage, healing and mobility as our tank stats instead of mitigation, healing and group support (stability) like the guardian tank does.

loseridoit.2756:

kostbabis.8791:

Oh god ..Its not big of a deal at all. With a bit of a skill this change will be unnoticable.
Port right before you get hit so you keep the time the enemy will start chasing you while you remain in stun as low as possible.Cc from ranged classes dont last long enough.
Well if you get updrafted and port immediately close enogh you ll probably get hit by a super fast phoenix but..whatever..nerf ele. :P Though even then you can still save the port for the very last moment to avoid everything

i thnk with a bit of skill, this change is a buff. lower cd means more mobility

The cooldown reduction (or projected cooldown reduction I should say till this whole thing is confirmed) is only 5 seconds. Thats not a whole lot for losing such a key part to the utility. It goes from the current 45 to 40 seconds. That is not a good tradeoff. Id rather the 45 seconds and the stunbreak over the 5 second reduction and 50% damage. If the cooldown was lowered to 35 or 30, then we could talk.

Razor.6392:

Neko.9021:

Not all Teleport skills break stun. Look at this list: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Teleport

Utility skills do IIRC.

(as in, those at the right of your healing ability)

Frostedblaze.9017:

It’ll still be a great skill to use offensively.

Except it was never used offensively for anything other than churning earth -_-

Burning Speed, Fire Grab, Earthquake say hi.

Um… How is this confirmed? I don’t see anywhere that the list there was given/acknowledged by Anet, unless that site is run by Anet.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Hi Llobo, I’m glad you enjoy our duels! I always have a blast whenever I roam with my ele in wvw and encounter great players! You guess not being glassy and difficult to see asura animation right but the rest is wrong bud. I posted my armor and stats on another thread so that part is not unknown. That combo rotation you stated I only use it if you were getting away to get closer to you but not necessarily to get to melee distance.

If you were playing an ele and we are 1v1 for the first time, I like to start off with water/earth 1 skill to see how bunker your ele is . If it hits and based on the numbers I see, I follow up with switching to earth or fire. (excluding all thieves….. with them I use the same 2 starting rotations, [earth 1 or 2, air, air 2, blast] or [earth 4+lightning flash, air, air 2,] = down because they are all too squishy).

RTL, FGS + Lightning Flash to get away from zerg or when I am outnumbered is correct too. For the past 3 weeks I have been using FGS within combat too. specially against a very bunker players (armor 3000+) or 1v2 bunkers/2v4 or something similar. The results are quite amazing. I love this elite. I’ll tell you more about it ingame! we’ll keep in touch, Later!

You say your’e an asura on BG right? A few days ago I was commanding a small group hitting one of BG’s towers and there was this little ele S/D asura hitting me pretty kitten hard while I was on a ram and ive got about 2.8k armor. Do you happen to have a legendary or some shiny scepter? I couldn’t get a close look at the guy as he kept hitting me, then hopping into the tower, but it hurt a bit. If that was you, then kudos. your build does hurt, would take some 8-10k off me easy since I was on a ram and couldn’t dodge.

I’m on SoR and would LOVE to duel you so I can see what you’re rocking. I’ve been trying to figure out a build of my own for S/D that has a great burst and good survivability and would like a comparison.

Edit – I think I’ve figured out your build from the stats you’ve shown in another thread, save what gear you are using. That’s eluding me a bit, as your health and armor shouldn’t ( according to the build calculator I’m using) be possible with that much crit chance and crit damage. I’m 1k health short and 400 armor short as well as 8% crit chance short too. I’l still fool around, but I think I’ve got most of it, and no I haven’t used a single piece of valkyrie like you said. It doesn’t seem like the stat allocation should be possible, though I can see that it is. Do you use ascended gear? or non-ascended? I’ll PM you a build that I’ve been working on, do you mind giving some comments on it?

Though I would still love a duel.

Mistform is still a stunbreak. Only ones that aren’t according to those “patch notes” are lightning flash and cleansing fire. The rest stay the same.

D/D 0/10/0/30/30 isn’t getting hit as hard as you think it is. True, the % loss hurts, the loss of a cantrip does too, but each of those can be made up with some skill and a change in your gear.

Learn to use lightning flash offensively to land burning speed as well as learn the max range on it so you can get the most of it to use it as a gap creator regardless of it breaking stun or not.

Change your gear a bit and get more damage stats if you are so concerned about the change to bountiful power. Or stop speccing into a defensive trait line and expect to do a great damage and move some points into air.

Either way, the spec is still viable, and will still be powerful with the right gear set and playstyle. It is after all a tanky build, meant to outlast opponents, not kill them with huge damage.

Avatara.1042:

Then you should know that it is much better to stay in water during a siege, putting 5 and 3 down on the rams, and then spamming 1 to heal people. This, along with your regen, is much more helpful than any damage you can do.

You know what, I’ll give that to you. I can say that in the tier that I play, this almost never happens (this could be a T1 meta thing). We almost never use rams on a gate unless we’re trying to ninja something and when spotted just leave or its the end of the week and were just flipping things for fun.

Even with a full zerg more often than not we don’t really use rams. It’s more catapult from range/trebuchet and so that is almost never needed. Again, thats in T1, I don’t know how it is in a lower tier.

Even still, that seems still useless. You still can’t out heal even 1 arrow cart which any good defensive opponent would have. And it seems a waste to build for something as specific as that and have all that HP be useless almost all the other times.

If you were to say S/D then hell yes. Build for clerics, AOE burst heal for 10k. Staff is just lackluster for HP in comparison because (and only due to this) it’s a regen heal giving no real cushion to a person. Even if you were to drop those water fields on someone on a ram, you should have others blasting it to heal them. The blast is whats keeping them alive more so than your regen ticks.

Nice job. Good use of the map mechanics of the mobs and the ability of D/D abilities to hit through the wall.

Don’t know how you managed to get Turmaine to stay still like that.

One tip though, Magnetic Aura. Use it more against those ranged mobs, would help you survive and kill more quickly. That and Meteor Shower against a single target that size is not so great, if it was a big boss like Lupicus who had a huge hitbox you would get more out of it, but in CM all the mobs/bosses have player sized hitboxes, you would be better off not using it. Would make things a bit quicker and leave you less vulnerable.

Good job nonetheless.

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Taking away two stun breakers from d/d, IMO that is the final nail in the coffin since the class cant survive without mobility.

Nobody is taking stunbreakers away. They are just being redistributed to different skills so builds that aren’t completely cantrip focused aren’t royally screwed whenever they get hit by a stun.

By definition they are taking stunbreakers away. You would have to be an Anet to run a glyph that gives you burning(already in fire), weakness(already in air), chill(already in water) and cripple(already in earth). If you want to run a glyph that gives you what you already have, and lose out on a teleport that actually keeps you alive be my guest. Oh, and kiss earth 5 goodbye. Since you are running glyphs now good luck landing that one.

Lightning Flash is still in the game. It’s not a stunbreaker anymore, but it still teleports you. If the leaked notes are true they also increased the damage of it by 50% (Turning it into a heavier burst to add to a burst combo) and reduced the cooldown to 40 seconds (Meaning you can use it much more frequently, almost matching Churning Earth’s cooldown). Seems to me they’ve tailored the skill specifically toward landing Churning Earth.

D/D is still far, far, far away from being unusable. Just now your solid cantrip set up isn’t as loaded with stunbreakers as before.

I can still survive pretty darn well without having three stunbreakers on my utility bar. I’m not seeing what the massive problem is.

You think 50% more damage on lightning flash matters? Why would it matter that you do 500 more damage in a fight if you are dead because you couldn’t move? Everyone knows an elementalist who stops moving is a dead elementalist… wait i get it now. You are a PvEr. Yeah none of this will effect your dungeons buddy. I was really talking more for the real players.

Personally, I use LF quite often as an offensive ability than defensive. I use it a lot to land Burning Speed/Churning Earth, and the loss of the stunbreaker (if this is the real patchnotes) while it sucks and makes NO sense isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. You can still LF away to 900 range and the stun will (hopefully) run off to let you get further away. You can still use it to get away from lined up bursts that normally come after the stun or to get out of the way of a melee train.

Avatara.1042:

Strang.8170:

I stand by my words, healing power is really sucky stat for staff ele.

With full healing power gear, you will get less than 4k extra to amount of burst heal you can do, and less than 290 hps from passive healing. And this requires you to be in the melee blob, puts 2 of your attunements on cd denying access to water, makes you spend both your dodges, requires an utility slot, forces your target to stay still to get all of the healing, has compromised your defensive stats and destroyed your damage output.

You must never run with the zerg or assault towers. Or fight in prolonged, massive battles. Or fight near arrow carts.

…

Actually, what DO you do?

And you must not realize that no one is getting the extra heals from your water fields… because no one is standing still in them unless they want to die as an arrow cart/zerg will out damage your heal over time and not give anyone a good cushion of health to get out of the way.

The argument isn’t that HP isn’t good for the elementalist, just that it isn’t optimal for the staff due to its regen-like heals that require you to stay in a certain spot instead of burst healing.

Burst healing > regen healing.

Play how you want, but it is sub-optimal to use HP on a staff as no one will really get the full effect of it in WvW unless you have people dancing in your field, which happens less often than one would like. Can you play that way? Sure. Many do. Is it the best for group comp? No.

You are better off running with a guardian who has a hammer with full HP gear and just have him/her blast your water field and support him/her with control/aoe damage as your own HP makes no difference when someone else blasts your field.

And before your comment on “You must not do x,y,z” I do play on a t1 server, I do it all with my guild, so find some other way to refute my claim. Preferably with a video. Or numbers. You know… actual facts about the gameplay mechanics or how WvW is actually being played.

covenn.7165:

Let me see, lightning flash no longer breaking stun = useless as a survivability tool.

Cleansing fire no longer breaking stun = no reason to ever slot it.

The staff improvements are nice, but they come at a cost of losing a huge survivability tool for ele’s actually running staff…. and staff ele’s are the ones that need to tool the most.

I still see Lightning Flash as a good survivability tool for movement sake. If you use it while stunned you could avoid a burst and move far enough away that the stun wears off and move more. Is it optimal? no. I don’t like the change. And a 5 second cooldown reduction does NOT make up for the loss of a stunbreak.

DarkSider.1079:

I’m looking over the leaked patch notes, if they’re real; does this impact the current 0/10/0/30/30 d/d builds, seems to again, nerf more boon/cantrip playstyle?

It’s a slight nerf to the damage output with Boutniful Power going from 2% per boon to 1% per boon and that Lightning Flash/ Cleansing Fire are no longer stun breaks.

There really will only be a small change to the playstyle and you will do slightly less damage now. I personally never slotted Cleansing fire, and really used Lightning Flash offensively or to get out of AOE, the 900 range will more often than not give you a good space to let the stun wear off anyway and then you can RTL away (if you have it that its).

This main buff seemed to be about bettering Staff and giving a few new builds to work out, and only slightly nerfing the popular 0/10/0/30/30 build. And most people who used that build wanted to be tankier anyway, so the damage loss isn’t huge, and could be made up for with gear or a sigil of force. I wish they gave something in return for taking that damage away (healing wise or something like that).

Arheundel.6451:

Raif.9507:

Arheundel.6451:

Here what I think will be the new list of viable builds for ele

1) 0/30/0/20/20 s/d ele burst ele valkyrie/zerker/soldier ( tPvP/WvWvW))

2) 30/20/0/0/20 staff nuker ele zerker/valkyrie ( tPvP/hotjoin/WvWvW)

3) 0/10/0/30/30 valkyrie roamer d/d ele (hotjoin/WvWvW)

4) 0/0/30/20/20 condition/tank shaman d/d ele ( tPvP )

Id even say the fist one could be a decent roamer in a good 5 man group too in WvW

As 1vs1 specialist a s/d ele win over a d/d roamer, however the latter has an easier time to disengage if things start to go wrong ( water 3- earth 2 -air 3-fire 3), the s/d is a better choice for 1vs1 because of the much bigger burst and sustain ( with water trait I and water trident+cleansing wave +earth 2 rock barrier)

Of course. D/D has the easier time of disengaging than the S/D, while the S/D has the higher single target burst. My point was that the S/D burst could finally be viable in a 5 man havoc group in WvW, instead of taking a D/D.

Arheundel.6451:

Here what I think will be the new list of viable builds for ele

1) 0/30/0/20/20 s/d ele burst ele valkyrie/zerker/soldier ( tPvP/WvWvW))

2) 30/20/0/0/20 staff nuker ele zerker/valkyrie ( tPvP/hotjoin/WvWvW)

3) 0/10/0/30/30 valkyrie roamer d/d ele (hotjoin/WvWvW)

4) 0/0/30/20/20 condition/tank shaman d/d ele ( tPvP )

Id even say the fist one could be a decent roamer in a good 5 man group too in WvW

Frostedblaze.9017:

Lightning flash won’t break stuns, but you should still be able to use it while stunned. You’ll just have to lightning flash far enough away for the stun to wear off before anyone can get to you. That’s how most of the other classes blinks work at the moment, so I’d assume that’s what ours will be changed to.

However, if it’s not usable while stunned, I’d be pretty upset.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink

900 range
30 second cooldown
breaks stun

Did all what Lightning Flash did, but on a better cooldown, and they still have it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Swap

Both do the same, break stun on low cooldowns, have around the same range, and are weapon skills.

There are more, but my point stands. Most classes had a teleport that stun breaks and has a cooldown on around the same amount as LF was.

I do get why they did it, I just don’t agree. I think they should have just added stun breaks to others instead of removing them from LF.

Again, this is only if these “patch notes” are real.

Swimsuit. I want Kasmeers swimsuit.

Smooth Marc.8743:

Try out 0/30/0/20/20 or 10/30/0/20/10 dagger/focus.Pick up offensive traits like vital striking,air training etc.

For runes and gear go all berserker with scholar runes.If you’re worried about dying use valkrie armor and weapons(but keep berserker trinkets) with divinity or some other defensive rune set up.Like Byron said if you get hit your dead anyway so you might as well maximize the damage you do.

I use sigil of energy for extra endurance regen, but if you feel like you can stay alive without it use something else.

I honestly think 0/10/0/30/30 d/d is overrated in pve.Dagger offhand does not offer much on boss fights except extra healing.Churning earth and fire grab are on too long of a cool-down to make a difference and bosses are immune to knock downs.

I don’t think aura sharing is worth it, because auras are pretty worthless in pve except magnetic Aura.Evasive arcane is pretty much overkill for self healing.If you need that much healing you’re making too many mistakes.

This is a bit off topic, butI don’t think ele dps is as bad as you make it out to be.I was messing around soloing Lupicus as glass cannon ele, and my kill time was not that far off from my warrior’s (which is 7ish min).It’s a nightmare to stay alive in phase 3 so I’m still working on a kill, but I’m on pace for like 10-11 min kill.It’s only slower than a warrior because I’m forced to sit in water and earth attunment for extended periods of time in phase 3 so I don’t put sigil of energy on cool-down.

That sir, is an interesting build. I’ve been trying to solo Lupi with the standard 0/10/0/30/30 build with D/D and it’s a nightmare on how long it takes with my balanced build as I seem to be on track for around 20-25 minutes. I think I’ll give this a shot.

I’ve even thought about trying the LH spec for a Lupi solo.

spiffyy.4650:

thanks! very helpful answer. makes a lot of sense.

Glad to have helped!

Continued from previous…

You as a staff ele will have access to 3 blasts (Earth EA, Eruption and Arcane Wave) which while good, you probably wont be close enough to use 2 of them to where you dropped your water field as you should be dropping it on the melee who are protecting your kitten . And if we are talking a small group like 5 people, don’t run staff you are more of a liability than a help as S/D or D/D would help a hell of a lot more since you can’t use the best defense that a staff ele would have, range, since you wouldn’t want to be so kitten far from your group mates.
And yes, if your group isn’t stacking might/vulnerability on targets that you call out together, then your group is worthless. I was talking under the assumption that that was understood. You have consumables, you have might stacking and vulnerability all available in your group and should be doing it all the time. So yes, my ice spike will hit 6k on my target because I worked with my group to make it happen. It’s called team effort, ya know, since we are talking about a team build here and all.
I never advocated using berserkers. Especially not in WvW unless you LIKE running back from spawn constantly. Good groups will more often than not target what they see as the squishy/dangerous member of the opposing group and go for them first and focus them down. Staff elementalists are prime targets in WvW and a good group will kill you fast. Neither am I saying go all PVT as you certainly are missing a lot of what the class can do then.

I always will advocate going for a mix of gear, maybe even some celestial gear too. Get a good amount of health that you feel comfortable controlling with the multitude of heals at your disposal (I always aimed for 16-16.5K) and a good amount of toughness to the point where you feel you are survivable enough and the rest go offensive gear. Maybe throw in some clerics to buff your healing a bit more. But unless you are going D/D or S/D roaming, I wouldn’t suggest going full clerics. You might never die, but you won’t accomplish anything either. Look even at Dapheonix, he started all clerics, and gradually weaned off it to go knights so he can kill stuff. The cleric bunker is a crutch, it’s easy to play and very forgiving as there is so much self sustain that it is hard to kill/kill others. In group play though it isn’t bad, but staff doesn’t make the best use of it.

I wish staff got a buff to make it much better though as far as conditions/healing. The tick healing just doesn’t cut it unless the field is being blasted by someone and in small groups the burst healing other weapon sets give are just all around better and the control that they give are more suited for small man play than the staff.

This turned out quite a bit longer than I intended…. Sorry :p I just love theory crafting and the elementalist is my passion

And yay for personal attacks!

Listen Kodiak, on one is saying that healing power is useless on elementalists. Quite the opposite. The only issue is, that for staff, to really get the most out of the healing power, you must stand still. That is a death sentence in WvW when facing coordinated or skilled groups. Your extra heals on the ticks from your water field are no good when the other group will just AOE bomb the area in which the water field is, or even pull you out of it.

The staff IS support. No matter how you gear, the staff is a support weapon. It is area denial/control with water fields attached. However support != healing. Support means doing whatever your class can do to help. With the staff’s case it is control and combo fields.

You are not a healer. You contribute support by controlling the battle field. Your water fields will be used to blast in them and move on. You will most often drop the field in front of your group, while they are running and as the group passes through it will blast and run on through without stopping for a second. You might get what, one tick of the heal? Then what was the whole point of stacking so much healing power, for that one dodge roll + attunement swap? More often that not, the blast healing will not come from you, but from others and then it doesn’t matter what your healing power is, as it wont affect the blast heal.

If you want for small man to run a tanky/heal build I would suggest a S/D over staff and get a ranger to join you for the water field. Why S/D? Because of Trident and Cleansing wave. With S/D you can AOE (small one yes) burst heal for much more with the swap to water/trident/cleansing wave/dodge roll combo than you would with staff AND you can reliably stack singular conditions longer than you could with staff.

Staff generally is NOT good for the small man group (3-10) since you (generally) don’t pack the blast finishers to make the best use of the water fields and NO ONE will stand in your water field long enough for it to make any difference. This can vary depending on the group composition sure but generally the small man (3-5) would benefit more from the insane 2.5k heals from the above mentioned combo (per ability) than they would a water field and blast in it.

Staff conditions are generally poor. Why? Because you can’t stack a condition to any huge number and quickly re-apply it if it is wiped die to the nature of attunement swap and cooldowns on the abilities themselves. When you launch an eruption, and swap to fire for a lava font to get the AOE might, by the time you can swap back to earth those 6 stacks of bleeding are more than likely gone. Not only that, you would be missing key timings to swap to earth for the AOE protection to try to survive bursts since you are trying to spam Eruption. It is better on Scepter as you will be longer in the attunements (like earth or fire, though mostly you will be in air, until other abilities will come off cooldown)

The strength of the staff is the control it gives, the static field and the AOE chill and Meteor Shower (not for the damage only, but mainly because people just don’t want to headfirst into it). The reason the “Immortal Staff Ele” was immortal was not because the water field was so OP, it was because of Evasive Arcana giving 4 blast finishers. It was only OP really in sPVP because the water fields would cover the whole point and the ele would just dodge roll around and laugh. That made it OP for sPVP because the point would never be uncontested for that team and you could never kill that ele because of all the blast finishers we had from EA. Not because the healing ticks of the water field itself (though it did help). That was OP because the ele didn’t need to move off the point that was covered by the field whereas in WvW you will generally not be in your water field because you have to move around a lot more. That is why the second that the EA blast finishers where removed, the Immortal Staff ele disappeared and the rise of the Immortal Cleric S/D ele did. As the S/D ele can burst heal for 10k out of 14k every 40 seconds, and burst heal for 5k every 10 seconds.

Healing power is only really pointless for staff since the healing comes in ticks, and is not really felt due to all the conditions and damage that a good group will throw at you. Burst healing is better than regen healing in WvW because the damage normally will come in waves. What makes ele healing so strong is thakittens burst healing topped with a regen (or 2) leading to a TON of healing. However in staff, you only really have access to regen style healing with the water fields applying their heals in ticks until someone blasts it, and then all your healing power is null since the blast will be based upon their healing power.

continued in next post…

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Equality.9023:

Remember though, you can’t use two on swap sigils as an ele and get both bonuses. You will only get one of the two every 9 seconds not both, it’s random on which you will get but I found that the one in your main hand will process more. Get a on crit or on kill for the other weapon.

mainhand rolls before offhand; although with on swaps it would mean mainhand activates; goes on cd and prevents offhand activating

- do NOT get an on crit with an onswap sigil

This guy has it right. Don’t use an on swap sigil along with an on crit sigil as it works the same as if you had 2 on swap sigils.

Yes, attunement swapping counts as a weapon swap. Think about it, you are technically swapping weapons as you change your whole bar from 1-5 from each attunement. Think of each attunement as a different weapon (as they really are different). Each time you swap an attunement you are technically swapping weapons.

Yes. Sigil of Battle or Sigil (more might stacks yay!) of Energy for more dodging. You can run it on a staff (I run Sigil of Battle) and it works.

You can use an on swap weapon sigil due to attunement swapping counts as a weapon swap. We make the most use out of any on swap sigil as we should be constantly swapping attunements and normally even swap before the cool down on that sigil is up.

You don’t need to actually switch your weapon.

Caffynated.5713:

Raif.9507:

As for whoever said Ice spike/eruption only crits for 2-4k… I don’t know what you are doing or hitting, but I hit for a thousand or 2 more than that quite often. My Ice spike hits generally between 3-6k, eruption is normally lower around the 4k.

I didn’t say it never hits higher, I said those are the numbers you’re generally going to see against 80s geared for WvW.

Damage coefficients:

Meteor Shower: 1.3
Ice Spike: 1.5
Eruption 1.25

2100 power + might (I average around 16 stacks) = 2660 power
Weapon damage on staff: 985 – 1111 (1048 average)

2660 * 1048 * 1.3 / 1836 (base light exotic armor) = 1,973.8 * 2.49 (99% crit damage) = 4,914 meteor shower against a complete glass canon light class with no protection (suicide).

Most of the people you’re going to be hitting in WvW will be wearing soldier armor with 2500-2800 armor.

2660 * 1048 * 1.3 / 2564 (soldier’s light armor) = 1,413.4 * 2.49 (99% crit damage) = 3,519 meteor shower against a soldier’s geared light class.

2660 * 1048 * 1.3 / 2855 (soldier’s heavy armor) = 1,269.3 * 2.49 (99% crit damage) = 3,160 meteor shower against a soldier’s geared heavy class.

Add protection (which any competent group is going to spread around liberally) and the damage is reduced even further.

Sure, under ideal circumstances where you can prefarm 25 bloodlust and stack 25 might, you can do more, but that’s not what happens in the reality of WvW where you’re getting downed, hopping BLs to defend, etc.

Oh sure, yes that is true. Normally to hit harder one would need might stacks and bloodlust stacks and vulnerability. But it is possible and happens quite often in my experience.

PVT/Knights/Berserkers/cavaliers mix. 0/10/0/30/30. Dont bother with condition damage as any coordinated group will just wipe it out almost instantly in WvW (keyword, coordinated) as well as you cannot reliably stack any condition for elongated periods of time like other classes can (pistol engi/necro). By that I mean that unlike certain classes you can’t stack a condition highly and reliably as you should be swapping attunements to use ALL your abilities, which locks you out of getting a certain condition.

Your job as a support staff elementalist is to drop the water field when called for it, to drop the static field when asked, and to drop your ice field when needed. Thats it. You are a combo field bot/aoe denial and damager, other classes (hammer warrior/guardians for example) will be those who blast your fields more often than you.

You shouldn’t waste almost 1.1k traits on healing power for a minimal amount of increase in healing power when you can use it for more damage. You won’t be increasing anyone’s survivability with more healing power as your water fields need people to stand still in them which wont happen often in WvW to get the full impact of your increased healing power. The reason everyone likes the water fields we have is because they have a good cooldown and are large when specced for it meaning they can be blasted multiple times by a large group to heal a lot. The blast is what makes staff eles so needed, not your increase in healing power.

Your focus while running staff will be to drop on command:
Frozen Ground
Geyser
Healing rain
Static Field
Unsteady Ground

You will drop when you want to do damage:
Meteor Shower
Ice Spike (yes, it does great damage and can cause people to scatter)
Eruption (for either a blast finisher or just damage)
Lava Font

Don’t waste points on healing power in WvW unless you want to roam as a D/D tank where it will make much more of an impact. The bigger the number of people in an engagement, the less powerful healing power becomes, especially for staff eles as to get the most of the heals you need to stand still, which is a death sentence when zerg meets zerg. Again, the blast is what people want, not the heal of the field itself as you have to stand still to get the benefit of it.

As for whoever said Ice spike/eruption only crits for 2-4k… I don’t know what you are doing or hitting, but I hit for a thousand or 2 more than that quite often. My Ice spike hits generally between 3-6k, eruption is normally lower around the 4k.

Both the Fire and the Battle sigil have the same cooldown so they seem to work together as you do get might and the fire blast every so often, however they do switch off. Also you might have been might stacking through fire fields/had help to get those stacks.

It took me a while to notice that they didn’t work properly together, as I was getting might and the fire blast every so often.

Equality.9023:

Raif.9507:

Because you cannot use 2 on swap sigils. This has been prevalent the entire time. You will get one or the other, and then both will go on cooldown, then have to wait the max cooldown to get one or the other again and it will be random between the 2.

Use one sigil or the other, not both.

They are correct, I tried a Sigil of Battle and a Sigil of Hydromancy on my S/D. I would get one or the other every 9 seconds but not both. It was random which one I would get.

I switched to battle/bloodlust instead. One of the on crit depending on you build would be a good idea also like fire. Of course in PvP or WvW the on crit ‘may’ be better than on kill. It really depends on how long you survive IMO.

Can’t use an on swap and an on crit sigil together either. They also share the same internal cooldown.

Yes and no.

You cannont use 2 on swap or on crit sigils on 2 different 1 handed weapons. You can use 1 on swap sigil and one sigil of another type (save on crit). This is due to them sharing internal cooldowns, when one goes on cooldown, so does the other. This applies to on crit sigils as well.

You can however do the following (replace Sigil of Battle with any on swap/on crit sigil):
1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Force/Accuracy/Night

1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Bloodlust/Corruption/Life/Luck/Perception

1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Restoration/Speed/Stamina

1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Agony/Chilling/Debility/Hobbling/Paralyzation/Peril/Smoldering/Venom

1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Conjuration/Sanctuary/Demon Summoning

1 Sigil of Battle & 1 Sigil of Centaur Slaying/Destroyer Slayer/Demon Slaying/Elemental Slaying/Dreams/Ghost Slaying/Grawl Slaying/Icebrood Slaying/Impact/Justice/Karka Slaying/Ogre Slaying/Seeking/Serpent Slaying/Smothering/Sorrow/Undead Slaying/Wrath

Because you cannot use 2 on swap sigils. This has been prevalent the entire time. You will get one or the other, and then both will go on cooldown, then have to wait the max cooldown to get one or the other again and it will be random between the 2.

Use one sigil or the other, not both.