Guild Wars 2

I never liked the RIFT approach. At least when I played it then it was always that 3- or 5-tiered gate-in-place thing with some of the surroundings affected and mostly requiring a group in the end to beat the final tiers. It was also a bit repetitive as it was all bound to the same number of types of elements. I mean in itself it indeed set itself apart from WoW this way but I am way more happy with the GW2 approach for the reason that DEs all have their own zone-dependant background. I don’t know how RIFT is today seeing that when I played it that it was 1.5 yrs. ago.

You see, that’s one of the things which people need to realize in addition to that not every player comes from the same background and may not have played these games which had it. Because jaded MMO nomads usually are more cynical anyway. But it doesn’t always have to be ‘totally different’. It’s sometimes the way it is implemented and utilized which counts. WoW’s basic structure was all based on the same core mechanics which people knew from EQ and yet it distanced itself from that game by being more newbie- and solo-friendly, more intuitive and overall more fun for the most players.

In that sense maybe GW2 hasn’t done enough of it yet and certain criticism are always true. It’s not that a MMO game starts off in a way where you can say it’s done, even the most longest running MMOs still have their fierce critics going on. Just look at EVE’s forums which still have their long carebear-vs.-ganker debates going on and how CCP never seems to do enough to eliminate the other side. Sure its criticisms died a bit down over time but you will never get rid of certain elements. So I reckon we will still debate on how raids and holy trinity would be so much better in a couple of years (oh yes, I am expecting it to actually last that long).

You don’t research before you buy?

MrLee.6892:

Sorry but 3,000 bots is barley a start.

Not having GM’s in game is hurting.

So we agree they haven’t nerfed the class because of it being partially favoured for botting and they are actually doing something about them. Good. As for the usual argumentative transition from “doing nothing” to “barely a start”, it’s not they have actually stated otherwise but you have to begin somewhere. But hey, we knew how this goes already, right? “They are not doing anything” is usually followed up by “They are not doing enough” and finally and perpetually concluded with “Their success rate is not 100%”.

The title is misleading. It should read perception of the Ranger class not the class itself as it got tainted. A fair share of bots I have reported were Guardians.

MrLee.6892:

In the last patch ArenaNet nerfed Rangers. In the patch notes it said “Crossfire: Increased casting time by 40 milliseconds. This was done to fix some glitches in the animation that caused problems with this skill.”

And this so called “Animation Glitch” (that no player seems to have had troubles with) was a 7% DPS decrease with the shortbow.

So was this nerf to help hinder all the Ranger Bots out there? And in the long run it’s actually hurting the Ranger profession and again we normal players are suffering for it because ArenaNet can’t deal with all the bots?

Why are you asking this question? It would be pretty absurd and illogical if they did especially since they actually are dealing with the bots.

There are quite a lot online games where going to bed is a risk. Just saying :P

I think if they limited WvWvW and introduced night curfews then they would annoy a lot more players.

Skolvikings.5132:

I set my audio from lowest latency to most stable and still had the problem. Only turning down the quality from highest to medium seems to help. At least so far.

I’ll post back if it happens again even on that lower quality setting.

Errr, yes, sorry I was actually meaning to say setting buffer size to most stable and using the lowest quality at cost of audio fidelity will usually make the problem go away.

I am using an Asus Xonar Essence STX soundcard.

Algreg.3629:

yeah, underwater it IS actually a pain, there is some z-axis-work to be done:)

Hmm, I think it’s rather Y-axis as computer graphics in games and some applications base their system off a XZ plane aligned to camera FOV thus Y is up and down. Just saying. :p

Clem.2963:

exphryl.3857:

This alone makes me hate underwater combat 99.9% of the time.

I feel trolled at times.

Get the veteran mob underwater down to 5%, “lol nope! Invuln”.

:(

Myself and another person had a champ shark under 25% HP when is suddenly went invulnerable and healed to full HP.

kitten that… Walked away.

Let me guess it was a follow-up on that Inquest champion? I’ve had this as well. I was about to rant over yet another broken even when after like 45s I suddenly got the credit for it.

It was always there.

InfiniteRetro.9865:

[…]
its pretty obvious it was a money grab using PR to dupe people into thinking something it aint.

Yes, 6 years investment into an “obvious money grab”. Seriously if they were as unimpassionately out for a money grab they could have just opened a hot dog stand.

Yes, this bug is fairly old. I am still puzzled as to why this is still happening. That siren/sinus curve sound bug is usually happening in WvWvW to me.

Setting mixing buffer size to most stable circumvents it at cost of audio fidelity.

The spell effect visuals are not working well together because a lot of effects are very voluminous and exaggerated compared to their actual impact. If AoE effects would scale down and visually fade out faster the more of them are in place then a lot of this cacophony of spell effects would be reduced. It would at least be nice to given that as option.

The question is: Why not play both?

I would support a reset alongside with a complete mindwipe of every person who bought, seen or heard of GW2.

Rise.9702:

I played it more and really like the game, but my biggest problem now after playing 2 weeks slowly and taking my time is that I wish more people talked in this game, even the guilds don’t talk. It can have 200 people and everyone’s quiet. I gotta admit, it’s kinda of boring though. Sometimes it is fun to see people chat and act trolly on Map talk but most is asking for events or dungeons. Why is everyone so quiet? I’m in Crystal Desert so I dunno about other servers. So I agree with Halo. Everything in the game is too hold-hands so no one HAS to talk or ask for help. Just my 2 copper and my only reason this game is downing on me. :/ I mean even the crappiest of games can be fun with friends and some idle chatter here and there.

I am playing on a server where people seem to roleplay a lot and also have idle talk in some zones. I reckon most real chatting either goes on in whispers, party chats or chats outside gw2 (Ventrilo, Mumble etc.).

For that matter it is not much different than I experienced in other MMORPGs. Most chats happen in hubs. If your guild however does not talk but you want to talk then I’d recommend changing to a social guild.

I personally don’t do if any idle talk on map chat because I am just not the type for that. If I talk it’s mostly down to courtesy and to answer questions give advice mostly in private where I usually chat with friends in games anyway.

aleiro:

People complain because it gives results….they complain complain complain until they change the game.
Ask Bioware on ME3…

People didn’t just complain about ME3. They started things borderline harassing developers and writers even on private level. Recently both of Bioware’s founders left. Insider informations say that they were both pretty exhausted especially over the ME3 issue and it’s insane backlash reflecting on everyone in the company.

Persistence is one thing but gamers usually do not know these days where to draw a line. Repeating the same complaint over and over does nothing but constructive criticism does.

That’s why I actually admire people like Ghostcrawler at Blizzard. He is tough as nails and doesn’t care about what people are calling him nor does he care much about the most of the inane complaints. I may not necessarily agree on every of his policies and the desaster that was Cata but he manned up to it and said it sucked.

I am still very interested and I used to think I have grown out of MMORPGs after my previous disappointments (that game with laser swords and that other game where you craft lots of war). I have been playing since August 28th now and got a level 80 Engineer and level 73 Mesmer so far. I do not play continuously as in don’t do breaks or play other games though. So sometimes I am just 1-2 hrs. per day.

I know however that the game is still in a lot of needs of adjustments and some bugs tend to be really annoying like Phase Retreat being often a ticket to go underground (literally) or bugged events and overtuned storyline missions. I am also not a big fan of Orr. I generally loathe undeads in games and I wish my Engineer has a portable nuke. It would make sense to give them one in their bomb kit even if it would just be for Orr.

Valhallen.1693

IMO the people calling for the nerfs are wrong, because the only ones getting killed over and over again by “OP classes and abilities” are the least skilled and least informed. Hundreds of posters on the forum (which is very few relative to the total playerbase) complaining about 100 blades is a perfect example of this. It’s very easy for a skilled player to see coming and even easier to counter, but Joe Casual with no stun break in sPvP room 23 keeps getting rocked by it then cries on the forum.

Usually developers are using their own metrics and only are using feedback to check which part of these might need some closer look or observation. If they agree then a nerf will happen otherwise not. Not all complainers are these ghastly casuals with no skill. It would be easy to nail it down like that and no developer will do that. For these complainers a developer not acting is as bad as an acting developer is for the affected people. Point being people will quit under the premise that things don’t get nerfed and that things did get nerfed. Imbalance is a most common criticism about every game having PVP.

I define “too early” as any period of time before people have had sufficient time to learn their class, as well as how to play against every other class. IMO it takes more than a month to accomplish that. I would say you can’t truly say you’ve fully mastered a class in PvP in under 3 months in a new game, especially when you consider the many different combos you can pull off with different team comps.
You can’t even duel or have casual premade on premade sPvP matches, so that further limits everyone’s ability to practice. I would guess that 90+% of the people PvPing right now don’t even know what their different leap/whirl/etc abilities do in the different combo fields.

Yes. I agree. Ideally it would be nice to wait until everyone has learned but that is realistically impossible and there is a 2nd school of thought to that: If they are waiting too long then people will get used to their imbalanced setups and then when they are changing it after a long time these people will then get very angry about it and ask why they nerf things after a long time if they worked fine for that long time. Meanwhile people who were angry about developers being fine with imbalances for so long will have quit already. Those who are not willing to adapt will always quit after a nerf.

So the question is who – objectively spoken – has the right of it? If grievance leads to quitting then surely both are? At the same time it seems no matter what you do or don’t do people will quit.

On a side note: I definitely would say things like combo fields are not very well communicated and it would definitely be nice if PVP and PVE were separated.

So where do you draw the line for “early” and when is a nerf okay?

Here’s the thing, you are right in that if enough grievances add up people will quit but you are assuming that everyone is fine with the same thing which is not correct. Some people constantly demand nerfs to other classes and are not happy if they are not happening quickly enough already. So some people will quit over imbalances not being addressed while others will quit over imbalances being addressed. So who has the right of it in this case?

Killing bots requires a similar methodology as killing rodent vermin and it will be in the same sense not have a permanent effect. They can only make it harder.

I won’t say ANet won’t or can’t do anything about it. Most MMO companies don’t talk about it openly or in details or even give out dates because they have to take into account that the other side is capable of reading as well.

I am sure a fair share of ideas did not play out as planned.

I am also sure that hadn’t they always reset and deleted characters during BWEs people would have found more issues on the road. It’s a tough call really to make as developer whether to get people spoiled or whether to risk amounting post-launch issues.

Keep in mind that MMOs are fairly complex multi-system games and that an MMO is technically never done. That’s a timeless constant and also a timeless constraint of the genre because it means that when they change something to please critics they will spawn a new generation of critics right after which was happy with the things as they were. It’s also usually a very tight ropewalk where you have to balance feedback versus developer vision.

Renegadeimp.8439:

Plenty of people have posted concise and very constructive criticism There are multiple threads all over the forums detailing the good and bad points of the game.

In every single thread, it is the “fanboy’s” as you call them, that derail the threads into full blown arguments.

That’s one of the oldest chicken-or-the-egg arguments in the gaming scene the fact of the matter is you can’t nail it down to either because it depends on your bias. It’s usually a lack of self-moderation and unwillingness to see the other side’s angle.

Nobody debates fair criticisms least of them people who actually understand the difficulties of developing and maintaining an MMO. They actually know that criticism is required while slamming is not and there is a huge difference between both.

On the other hand what’s trash for one is treasure for the other. So you keep yourself asking how can someone possibly love such a broken design concept there must be a possible explanation for this! And there the wheat is usually separated from the chaff. Because that’s where a discussion either delves into a flamefest or a masterwork of a discourse once that possible explanation cannot be found at all. See below :p

Renegadeimp.8439:

Ponzu.4570:

Love this game! issues are easily overlooked,best mmorpg i’ve played

You havent hit 80 yet have you and seen the amount of content that is completely broken.

Levelling up is indeed fun, but once you hit max level, the issues stare you right in the face. One prime example of this is the endgame boss.

He posted in another thread that he is level 80.

Renegadeimp.8439:

If people don’t point out the bad things that exist in a game, then no advance in programming or game design can ever be made.

I fully agree.

However a lot people have a varying definition of “pointing out”. One might say heralding the apocalypse is usually only one step away that is if they don’t just come to slam the game.

It’s fine to point out the flaws but if it’s written in antagonizing manner people usually find themselves between a rock and a hard place. They might agree to the sentiment but don’t like the way it is written so they go defensive. The end? “You’re clearly a fanboy.”

I’ve honestly never seen a MMO with players happy at launch but people have become more vindictive and more harsh over the years so many people won’t give that chance and move on.

The question whether they will try to improve the game is rather rhetorical. If they want to keep the game running they will of course take feedback into the account. However I used to say from the beginning it will probably be the biggest niche game to play due to its rather unpopular core design principles. So people disappointed with the core mechanics may not feel inclined to come back.

WasAGuest.4973:

People often mistake “Progression” with items or gear. That was never mentioned.

Progression can mean, wealth, stats, items (decor for player housing, guilds, etc) and yes, gear.

There’s a lot of ways Progression can be added to an RPG. When the progression dries up, content is gone. When the Progression is placed out of reach for much of the player base or is not tiered in a smooth “progressive state” complaints for no content pop up.

Gear Treadmill is not the only “Progression” out there; it’s just the most popular thanks to ickie WoW and MMOs before that.

Edit: I would like to add: A story line can also be “Progression” as it unfolds. As I said; lots of potential for “Progression” in RPGs and the best DMs/GMs know and understand that and play to that core feature.

Yes, that’s what I understood as progression as well but when you hold debates like this then it’s often not clear to which school of thought people belong to when talking about progression. So there’s always this cacophony where everyone is talking about progression but not everyone understands progression the same way.

I don’t think this game is suited for classical gear treadmills due its non-trinity structure anyway there’s already a game which does that better and I think the OP meant to say that if you need gear treadmills to to have fun then you’re not having fun which is the reflection of “I only log on to play for raids and log off after”.

I can’t talk for myself here because I am still busy enough with the game levelling characters but I have played enough MMOs and RPGs to understand that WoW did not invent progression in RPGs.

Cappy.2786:

“I won’t quit the game if every now and then I have to rethink my strategy.”

Problem is,most of casuals (even “hardcore”) will.Only people that care about the game and see their mistake will retry.While all the WoW kids will be like “this is stoopid,i payed for the game,i want everything!!!111”

How do you know it’s “most of casuals” and “all the WoW kids”? There is casual players and there’s hardcore players, there’s impatient players who want to beat stuff up and collect their “rightful” reward and there’s patient players who might actually reflect on whether the problem is on their side. And there’s two other groups, those who try to think outside of a box and try to find a creative solution on their own and those who just ask away and have pretty much a tunnel-vision and can’t see the wood for the trees.

Speaking for myself I am casual, I don’t care for immediate rewards and think if something does not work outright that another method should be tried without bothering other people with it.

My point is you can’t just two-dimensionally nail it down to a casual vs. non-casual problem when there’s so much more needed. I have seen hardcore players who get most of their informations off others and just shine through a lot of activity and are usually quick to anger if something doesn’t work out.

On topic I agree that challenge does not scale with group size. I feel it’s most challenging on your own and as you get more people it’s literally zerg away apart for some exceptions.

bwillb.2165:

You know, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3, a game published by a company I usually despise, had some FoV issues as well. It’s a console port, what do you expect. Anyway, I don’t know if they ever fixed it, but they DID come out with a response saying, specifically, that they will not ban users for fixing the FoV with a third party app. So on this issue, ArenaNet, you’re making me like you less than I like Activision, and that is really hard to do.

I believe it’s fair to assume that it’s more about a general stance versus 3rd party applications which is not uncommon in MMOs. It’s not just about forbidding people to alleviate the problem but what these tools could potentially do as well. You’d be out to certify 3rd party applications for use with the game – easier to provide a solution by yourself really and we know they are currently not really forthcoming with that at the moment.

To be fair WoW’s growth was sort of freak of nature thing when it happened. Well, maybe not exactly seeing what vacuum it filled but even today it’s going through the same growth mechanics as other MMORPGs (exodus when nothing left today, re-sub/come back when there is). Most MMORPGs stagnated pretty quickly after that, most saw their maximum 2-3 months after launch then settled at something more reflecting the state of the game. The MMORPGs I have experienced struggled with their endgame options or their state of it as well and seeing it being symptomatic for newer MMORPGs it makes you wonder somehow but it wouldn’t surprise me if they had not miscalculated on that in GW2 as well.

I’ve personally given up playing games for endgame only because I tend to hop around games too much and never focus on one. I used to play one game, an MMORPG exclusively, for the endgame though. So I do know both sides of the fence. So it was no surprise when I happily agreed to the level 2 is endgame formula because that meant whenever I log in I am not held back by gear constraints and lack of steady commitment. My hope was that the game stuck to that and that was the only hope I had.

In fact I remember in the few pre-launch hype-for-GW debates I’ve had I tended to emphasize that people will be utterly disappointed how it may not match their exaggerated expectations and hopes, that it will have issues, a lot of them and that they may not be happy with aspects such as the endgame. But it’s very hard to encourage moderation during such times but it on the other hand I’d have been happy to have been proven wrong by reality then.

Lastly since this is not a subscription MMORPG – which then is hailed for F2P-in-three-months – the metrics for success and profitability are different. I also doubt with its current weight it will just vanish and be forgotten. It will still linger around while everyone talks about his own ailuropoda melanoleuca avatar.

nexxe.7081:

GW2 would have been #1 if it was more traditional. Too many radical changes with combat and roles. It sounded great theory, but in practice, it has been sub-par.

The elimination of Non-Trinity Roles gave us chaos in dungeons.
Target-of-target missing.
Enemy cast bars missing.
Missed skills/spells = Wasted Cooldowns.
Camera/Control mechanics sub-par and amateurish.
the list goes on.

I disagree because holy trinity initially had its flaws as well. It was only later when Blizzard introduced changes making these roles less rigid and its parameters less opaque. In that sense if GW2 is the first MMORPG to open up on this then this does mean it’s inception may not be perfect as well and may just as its predecessor require a few iterations to get somewhere. You don’t make progress if you don’t try or give up early on it. Also a lot of this chaos stems from the hulksmash mindset which some people (still) have.

The other issues mentioned while being there and mentioned a couple of times don’t seem to be issues which cannot be addressed over time. It was a different thing in SW:TOR with its choice of engine and its innate constraints.

Either way “sub par” would imply that there is already a nominal par but if something is new then it has no reference therefore no nominal par yet. Without going too defensive about GW2 I think even their best efforts would never have outdone WoW’s achievements and become #1 (in which terms actually?). That is realistically impossible and most likely neither a short- nor a long-term goal for any new MMORPG. Well maybe if they are really crazy and deluded about it.

I’ve never seen any announcement that they want to dethrone WoW but you can’t blame a company for being a little bit more idealistic. Realism makes for bad advertisement.

As for whether it was a success? I guess it depends on what the company projected as sales and what their future projections are.

Both companies took a risk by the way, it was not very clear whether WoW would pull through as well. Also the Chinese model is different for WoW so the numbers are already representative but nothing to sneeze over anyway. It just shows that players have matured a little and don’t buy games with a blue logo blindly anymore.

I guess the questions are whether a) the goal of dethroning was missed which I think it was a non-sensical goal anyway and b) whether GW2 will go F2P in 3 months and die. The last one is a joke though but players like to sound the death knell if a game didn’t receive 120% satisfaction level nvm that in WoW that is still not the case until today and you can see that on the vast number of complaints already.

Yes, I am playing both games.

To be honest I couldn’t name it as problem just always had a feeling that FOV is an issue as well buried beneath the heap of camera issue I’ve had so far. If I had to prioritize I’d have a stable camera at first but the FOV issues would be 2nd.

Although as it stands out these FOV discussions between developers and players sound very similar to those of Darkness 2. Maybe they all went to the same class?

I am still not getting it. The gear treadmill has been cited as a major con of traditional WoW’esque MMORPGs. Now that it is gone it is suddenly demanded to be back as the gravitational factor to play a MMORPG.
No matter, I am not missing it a bit and I dearly hope that ANet does not fall back into rasterized template paradigms of this genre. If I want to play a game like that then well I just can because I got the choice that does not mean that I need to want every game to be the same because there is nothing mandatory like that. There’s people who want their gear grind, fine, play a game which provides that. There’s people who want their traditional holy trinity of predestined blaming for failures, fine, play a game which provides that. There’s people who want everything like in their last MMO just with a new skin: This does sound to me like people just want to have a experience a form of MMORPG adultery. Principiis obsta!

For me changing quality didn’t have the desired effect alone, I also had to change it to run at most stable for latency as well it seems. Which is fairly odd considering my DPC latency never jumps above 250 microseconds when playing GW2 at highest quality settings :/
Using a Asus Xonar Essence STX.

As far as I can tell from years of WoW raiding experience I only found things difficult if there was a lot of management required per individual in order to not fall behind, not make your group suffering from your failure and generally when failure meant a lot of anger in raidchat directed at you. What I am referring to is that pressure, ambition and required responsibility as well as discipline are what formed the difficulty in endgame content which was declared as challenging.

I am fine if the challenge is reserved to 5-man dungeons really. I don’t see how DEs will ever replace raids at all without enforcing attendance. Like anyone can join at any point and/or drop out equally at any time and even come back later still with some reward at the moment. There is no organization behind, no individualized responsibilities.

Gutrot.9437:

Ravenblade.7685:

Gutrot.9437:

2. So why not allow me to spec a tank with some aggro tools, and let those who want to spec as a DPS to go glass cannon
3. People with same language or guild can still run the instances and rolldodge their hearts content, I don’t want to take that away.

I don’t see how such a system could exist parallely with one rewarding an ancient mindset. People will always choose and prefer what they are used to. Since that would become a dominating mindset it will become outright obligatory. So the other one goes extinct and in doing so it will defeat one design purpose of the game.

Well, there are several people that defend the current role free gameplay, claiming that they enjoy the challenge. It’d be pretty funny if they would voluntary change to holy trinity if game would permit.
What I’m after here is, that why not let both groups get their wish. It would only be a small change, adding a bit of utility to here and there.

I know but it’s not black and white here:
There are people who actually have adapted, some which have troubles to but are willing to, some which are undecided, some which prefer the old ones. If you actually implemented a dualistic system then there is a decent chance that many people will swing over either because it’s easier to switch than to adapt or due to peer pressure.

In the end this would also imply that the game would have to use two rails. From a technological and technical aspect that’s a lot of overhead we are looking at and in the end difficult to service properly.
That’s why I can’t realistically see a parallel existence. Game designers usually tend to make a clear cut whenever they have to tweak the system core of their game. I am not saying they couldn’t do it but the question is in the end whether it’s worth the efforts and that’s usually down to demographic breakdowns of demands – something us players don’t have access to but like to speculate (incl. myself) often about.

lucretor.3084:

anyway i have some suggestions…

1.TURN THE SYSTEM TO “TANK-HEALER-DPS”
noone will listen to that so

Because not every solution to a problem lies with turning the perceived cause into a purpose. The true and not yet widely perceived cause seems to be a combination of lack of will to adapt, certainly overtuned content and unrewarding/stringent dungeon rules. If you fix 66% of the causes and leave the rest to the players then certainly you’ll have a way to get along with the system.

Nobody is certainly saying the current system is flawless and the embodiment of perfection but in my opinion and experience as well sometimes an approach requires several iterations to get there. Thus turning your back before not having tried an improvement at all is either:

- because you were reluctant to accept the new approach anyway and preferred the traditional approach and thus happily see things not working and as proof for old being better.
But: Even the traditional systems started out faulty once and people had to adapt to that as well!

or:
- the new system is doomed to fail regardless whatever you are trying. You’d have to be very experienced with system design and almost omniscient to actually state so with absolute certainty.

alternatively:
- you simply don’t want a change ever and thing of the genre having a hidden manifesto because of being dominated so long by a game using a system you are used thus concluding it must be the only working one. Which may not actually the case because simply noone ever has seriously tried that on equally large scale.

2. give to some classes some aggro skills,
or at least taunt skills and
build the aggro system from the beggining

Well, no. But not a strict ‘no’. More like snap-aggro with a long cooldown and fast decay of it might work.

3. u must make the game so we can see the target’s target
and what it is casting!!

5.CAN we please see our target’s health????

Yes. Agreed here. It would also help to get better insight into some mechanics without trial and error even outside dungeons. But I wouldn’t say “you must”. It does sound a bit commanding.

6.damage meter… everyone likes to measure their skills

I don’t think this would be wise because the system is not very static.
There are boons and combos – sometimes random and even stacking – which may skew the results easily it would also again lead to a very dreaded and warped mindset which led to an unhealthy amount of controversies in a certain game. Let’s not open that can of worms here.

Gutrot.9437:

2. So why not allow me to spec a tank with some aggro tools, and let those who want to spec as a DPS to go glass cannon
3. People with same language or guild can still run the instances and rolldodge their hearts content, I don’t want to take that away.

I don’t see how such a system could exist parallely with one rewarding an ancient mindset. People will always choose and prefer what they are used to. Since that would become a dominating mindset it will become outright obligatory. So the other one goes extinct and in doing so it will defeat one design purpose of the game.

xnorb.8207:

I never understood what’s actually wrong with having dedicated classes.

Having dedicated classes, everybody knows what his role is.

Having explicitly dedicated tanks and healers means there are two guys who are opposed in roles but conjoined in sharing 80% of the group’s awareness and responsibility for survival and are usually welcome scapegoats and receptacles for abuses and self-serving biases. This and in addition to the classes being more stressful to play usually leads to a lack of than a healthy supply of these classes.

Without classes, without proper abilities to cover a certain role and without direct communication, it’s more or less pure luck if you succeed in dungeons or not.

Depends on how much everyone is willing to adapt and to not turn into a raging dinosaur.

It is sort of scaring me away from dungeons that people require me to fill a dedicated role and take responsibility in that for every mistake they make WoW-style. People are already spamming chat for Elementalists and Guardians and I am betting on that they require them to be in a certain spec. Sure you could say you don’t need that at all, try to reason about balanced builds, gear and whatnot at the end of the day in these games: Mentality beats Reason.

I think some parts of the quests are very overtuned.

I never had a problem with delevelling. What are the exact downsides of it anyway? Most mobs in lowlevel zones are rather…civil. You never die in one hit. You are still relatively more powerful. Allows you to go back helping people on equal level instead of summoning that level 80 players who drops lowlevel zones bosses with one hit for ‘the lulz’ thus bypassing zone difficulty. The only thing I see as negative is the embarassment of getting killed by a lower level monster. I like the fact that things remain worthwhile even if they are technically lower level than you.