Here’s what you should have in consideration:
- GW1 was a full game. Even just Prophecies. I spent at least 3,000 hours in the game and I didn’t get EVERYTHING.
- GW1 was Human-centric. A lot of the lore has been adjusted or retconned. Writers say it’s because we had a narrow point of view (Human).
- WoodenPotatoes’ videos are full of speculation. He gets MOST of the details right, but he assumes a few community-beliefs and his own theories as facts and that’s just… not how it works.
- I do love his accent though.
I don’t believe you NEED it, but some things do click if you played/know the lore of the previous games.
Such as when they tell you that you need to retrieve a sword that was made out of dragon blood, and that it was wielded by a Dwarf named Dagnar Stoneplate. So you get it if you have played only GW2: oh, cool dwarf once branded a dragon blood sword. Cool beans.
But if you played the first set of games, you would know that there were 2 dwarven factions, the Deldrimor and the Stone Summit, and that Deldrimor were “the good ones”, while the second were not; that Dagmar led the second faction, and that he slayed Prince Rurik, son of King Adelbern, whm you meet (as a ghost) in GW2. Prince Rurik had a sword named Sohothin, twin to Magdaer, the sword used to cast the Foefire, the spell that caused all the Ascalonian ghosts you see in the Charr lands, and that Sohothin is now SOMEHOW in the hands of Rytlock Bristone, a Charr Tribune.
Past lore will only make the experience richer (A lot richer) but it’s not necessary to appreciate the full scope of the second game.
What gameplay would there be in a purified Orr?
What events would there be?
What reason to return there would there be (for non-lore-focused players)?
And do those answers supersede the pain of phasing maps, or messing with the Personal Story?
For those four answers, Orr will never be purified.
I could ask you the same 4 questions about any given map. Like Kessex Hills, prior to Tower of Nightmares. What is out there? Some Centaur camps, a Sylvari outposts and a few bandits. Nothing major, to be honest. Yet it is a full map with hearts, POI and vistas, as well as skill points.
Just because YOU don’t see how or what to develop, doesn’t mean their creative team doesn’t, either.
Let’s see, brainstorming in 30 seconds.
Maybe a Char faction (Blood) would want to resume the job they couldn’t complete 250+ years ago. Then, a few humans decide, well, that is just not cool, Orr was a HUMAN kingdom before the fall, let’s retake it now that it’s starting to heal. The 3 regions could then become a dynamic battle line, not unlike the one seen in the Factions campaign, back in GW1.
But, Sylvari could say, now, hold your horses, people. Someone from OUR race cleansed this land, we have a claim. And Asura can also waddle along and try to study the Artisan Waters and what not. BOOM, conflict right there.
Original? Maybe not. Rushed? Hellz yah, I thought it on 30 seconds. Then again, I don’t write/design games for a living, so perhaps the talented folks at Anet can do a far better job.
I think at some point one of the Devs mentioned that the way instances were implemented, they grab content from the “live” versions of the map, which is why you see destroyed LA in PS steps.
So it seems it wouldn’t be that simple to have separate versions.
What that says to me is that there was a discussion at some point about it and in the end, perhaps in hopes of improving optimization or performance, they opted for this.
If there was no discussion, then that’s a terrible lack of foresight from the developers.
It’s the way the story it’s portrayed, not the concepts within, that are lightweight. It’s the execution, not the setting.
And we have been claiming for months for a change in tone. But some in the writing team disagree and prefer the comic-relief and banter we have seen in S1 and to a minor degree in S2.
/SAD
I was actually speaking of the cinematic, not the city/ruins in the episode. No bubbles burst during the making of this film.
Malyck might be a descendant of Ewan’s tribe of Humans turned Plants by Melandru for all we know….
This might explain certain Sylvari’s reactions to him.
Hopefully Malyck is what I and others suspect and aids us with the help of other members of Ewan’s tribe against Mordremoth in the final battle of Heart of Thorns.
It has been stated that Ewan’s tribe became the Druids.
Called it. Nice cinematic.
Correct. Even thought it would appear Mordremoth influenced her in waking it up earlier than expected, the cinematic of its awakening also seemed to imply it was actually unexpected to it, meaning someone or something else could have motivated Ceara.
Then there’s the fact that yes, no physical changes are shown by either of them, so it was more like a corruption of the mind, rather than the body.
I think Scarlet and Aerin proved Sylvari are NOT incorruptible.
Then we come to timing of their discussion. The newborn Sylvari will have been growing in pods for a long time and the firstborn only start wondering how to guide them after they’re come out? That’s even forgetting Caedryn who has been alive for months according to the dialogue. It just isn’t plausible that these people are having this discussion with that dialogue at that time.
Emphasis is mine. When I went through the instance, I came out with the feeling that the Firstborn were actually surprised that the Seconborn were, well, born. It seemed to me they were not prepared for more of them coming out of the seeds.
I think they may have not (at the time) made the connection between them coming out of pods, and more pods bore by the tree.
Maybe he’s referring to an artwork for the Luxon turtles.
Thanks for the honesty (and clarification); in the end, most of us criticize because we want the game to achieve a higher level of quality.
I think you meant Fate.
I still doubt they’re building it. And if they are, why is it Krytan in design?
…unless it’s a matter of using “old” assets.
Looks like a Hunter from Resident Evil.
“Again”? We never met the guy, afaik.
Oh, oh, I see. Thought they would be more like, actual fixes to something that was incorrect information, not just typos.
Thanks!
…(which is not a retcon, and is likely going to get a stealth fix like all the other dialogue fixes I’ve been seeing getting stealth fixed).
I’m curious. What piece of content got that treatment?
DSD will be revealed during Wintersday and its name is Santa.
Finding that ship was a very Lost moment for me. WTF?
I don’t think the skritt are building that ship; I think they are repairing it. It seems it’s Krytan in origin (It looks a lot like the ones you see near Orr, that were capsized during Zaithan’s flood).
Someone mentioned Caithe having Wynne’s hairstyle, right?
Another turn of the screw!
What if Wynne’s actually killed Caithe and then assumed her form to…
Nah, not even ANet would go for that one.
Caithe cares too much about Faolain’s love, and the Pale Tree should know about the change and thus wouldn’t bother trying to comfort Caithe’s lost love in the sylvari personal story.
This was VERY much tongue-in-cheek.
Someone mentioned Caithe having Wynne’s hairstyle, right?
Another turn of the screw!
What if Wynne’s actually killed Caithe and then assumed her form to…
Nah, not even ANet would go for that one.
A fair point.
One more thing: according to GW2 lore, Mursaat learned an ability where the would phase out of the Tyrian reality and escape the ED the first time around. Who’s to say not all of them came back when the events of GW1 took place?
Reading the GW Wiki article on Lazarus the Dire
[…]Lazarus is one of the few survivors of the Flameseeker Prophecies.[…]
[…]He fled to go into recovery, but not before vowing vengeance against “countless generations”.[…]
Not only it is stated that he was not the sole survivor, it is implied that they can live for quite a few human generations.
I stand corrected, and what I knew wasn’t very far, then.
Thanks.
As far as I know, Margonites ruled the Crystal Sea.
Mordremoth we only recently got real hints into his motivations, persona, and goal. In the second instance of E5 – the Pact instance – the Masters tell us some of Aerin’s ravings on the ship: talking about destroying the world (to quote: “He said odd things about believing the world must be destroyed. "). This matches Scarlet Briar’s vision of “death, destruction, and destiny”. Ogden in the final instance of Hidden Arcana, says he views Mordremoth as ‘the most destructive of the Elder Dragons’. So similar to Primordus, Mordremoth seems to seek destruction – but unlike Primordus whom seems to only seek the destruction of life, Mordremoth seems to seek the destruction of the world.
This is very interesting, because it led me to a rather disturbing thought: what if Mordremoth is interested in destroying everything basically because it is tired?
I mean, we have learned that the ED rise and go back to slumber periodically according to the magic flow in the world; they act as some sort of magic buffer, they apparently have no other purpose. Like WEAPON (sorta) in the Final Fantasy VII world.
So, what if Mordremoth became weary of that? Of perpetuating that cycle? What if it just wants it to be over, and to do that, it must destroy ALL?
To be honest, I don’t think their longevity plays any factor, seeing that they were alive the last time the ED were active and were still alive during Guild Wars 1.
You can argue that the Mursaat in GW1 were the descendants of the ones 10,000 years ago, but that race strikes me as one that, much like the Human Gods, have certain aura of divinity or power about them.
Although I do agree that the White Mantle, and also their masters in the shadows have greatly diminished the danger they posed, due to their dwindling power and numbers.
On October 20th, Colin Johansson published the following article:
Go ahead and read it, it’s reasonably short. But if you didn’t, here’s the part I find the most interesting:
Into the Jungle
The road to war is paved by points of no return. Tyria has already decided to take the battle to Mordremoth. As we go on this journey we’ll learn dark secrets of Tyria’s past, venture into stories with roots deep in the very heart of Guild Wars lore, and visit places that have only been rumored to exist.
As we have seen during Season 2, Episode 5, in the different fortresses spread around in The Silverwastes, some Bandits that belong to the Sinister Triad have left, in their rush to abandon these outposts, different clues to their possible real affiliation.
So… what is the Sinister Triad?
Well, Peacemakers, Seraphs and Wardens agree on some sort of alliance between Inquest, Bandits, and Nightmare Court, based primarily in the Brisban Wildlands. Additionally, some at the Shinning Blade believe that at least one group of Bandit is in reality a White Mantle cell, operating near Divinity’s Reach.
The clues that I mentioned above seem to point to the Bandits belonging to a remnant of the original White Mantle, a military/religious group that controlled Kryta roughly 250 years ago. It was formed by Saul D’Alessio, and was responsible of preventing the fall of Kryta to the Charr. Saul was a drunken gambler who was banished to the Maguuma Jungle because he hadn’t paid his debts. He, for all purposes, was sent to die.
But Saul returned, a changed man. He came back speaking of a city of tall spires, never before seen architecture, and divine creatures that had saved him. These creatures would be known as “The Unseen Ones”, but in reality, they were the Mursaat, one of the races that fought the Elder Dragons 10,000 years ago, on the previous occasion when the ED were awake.
Now, the city that Saul described has never been seen, and was NOT visited in the original Guild Wars.
I theorize we may see the return of the Mursaat as key players in the lore of the world; yes, apparently only one Mursaat was still alive 250 years ago (And granted, much changed after an encounter with a group of human heroes), but the line […]venture into stories with roots deep in the very heart of Guild Wars lore, and visit places that have only been rumored to exist from Colin’s article lead me to believe we can hear from them and their fabled city very, very soon.
Thoughts?
Yes, I think it was Brahms in S2E1. I remember I noticed but I didn’t react as strongly as I did when Scarlet used it. I guess that’s their strategy, to keep doing things like this until we just accept them.
That started with Scarlet using “DR” [dee-ar] to refer to Divinity’s Reach.
Cringe-worthy.
Funny you should say “plant a spy”, considering it would be a Sylvari :P
Changing professions is not as strange as you may think. Someone as underwhelming as Kieran Thackeray did it once. Livia/Salma are far superior to that poor excuse for a Ranger/Paragon.
Everything you said.
No, just one character doesn’t make it [that character’s] race-centric; but major plot points revolving about him, does.
The Cleansing of Orr is his Wyld Hunt, and it is largely the motivation to set up the Pact and its subsequent invasion to Orr.
There’s the fact that there is a legendary sword (Caladbolg) made out of the Pale Tree’s bark, that enhances one’s qualities and traits. Oh hey, given to a Sylvari.
Then, it was constantly stated, Sylvari cannot be corrupted (By Zhaitan).
Do I need to continue?
The main issue I think, is more that we are going into a very sylvari focused dragon right after Zhaitan, which also was very Sylvari focused mainly due to Trahearne.
Which was a conscious decision from the Writing Team; Zhaitan could have been handled in many other different ways. Out of the top of my head, I can throw out the fact that Orr was a Human kingdom before the Cataclysm. That could have been an angle from where the storyline could have been explored.
But we got Traherne.
It’s not a matter if motivation; as many of you pointed out, there’s plenty of that to go around.
But the story is heavily, and I mean heavily, biased towards the plant-like race. That’s what puts me off something like this.
I know it’s free and all that, but I don’t HAVE to like it just because of that.
The Sylvari are Sylvari; it was believed that they took a demi-human appearance due to their MOther being planted where Human Graves were located, but after meeting Malyck, that had to be revisited.
Sylvari are not Human.
The Six districts in DR do not correspond one-to-one to Human cultures. Only 4 do: Rurikton (Ascalonians), Ossan Districts (Elonians), Eastern and Western Commons (Krytans). There are some Canthans in Rurikton, by the way.
Right, guys, but, any opinion on the Human conception of the Bloodstone being a distorted story of the Crown?
One, if I wanted to know how real people react to bad stuff, I would take a long, depressing look at my family.
Two, while humor is a valid and very healthy coping mechanism, not EVERYONE uses the same. The Biconics are known for cracking jokes as a group. Even though one of their members just suffered a loss, and her partner in both work and life is laughing along.
Three, while the Human mind is adaptable, only one or two are Human. The rest, are not.
Let’s start by taking the tale that Rytlock recounts about how the Six gave 2 magic swords and 1 magic crown to a human king, to “protect the kingdom”. We know of Sohothin and Magdaer, of course, but this McGuffin, this Magical Crown of Reversing Curses seemed to come completely out of the blue, like a Deus Ex Machina.
…but what if we have known of this crown all along, since GW: Prophecies? Before touching on that, let’s backtrack a little:
We NOW have the knowledge that Elder Dragons are some sort of magic buffer that regulate the abundance of magic in Tyria. We also know that races that are dwindling (Seers, Dwarves, Mursaat, Jotun and Forgotten) battled them 10,000 years prior. And we also know that the Seers did something to preserve some of the magic flow that existed at the time.
That something was creating the Bloodstone(s).
But wait a minute! Humanity as a completely different take on that!
Isn’t it said that the Six, well, mainly Abaddon, gave magic freely into the world? Why, yes, indeed that’s what the lore from GW said. It stated that magic allowed for great bloodshed, and that at last, Doric, the Human king, pleaded before the Five and they agreed to seal magic in a stone that would contain a drop Doric’s blood. This led to Abaddon’s revolt.
Now, it is said that the Bloodstone was then split into four pieces, with a Keystone to bring them together again, and then cast into the Ring of Fire largest volcano.
Hmmm…. where did we hear something about something being split into four somethings?
The Crown. And it was given to a Human leader. And it was given by the Six. To protect. The Kingdom (which can be though of as the entire planet).
Well, Humans are after all, mortals, and from a perspective, have a short lifespan. Stories, myths and legends are a big part of Humanity because of that: events of past need to be recorded somehow and passed down, because Human memory does not last long, and their print in the world is a fleeting illusion. But stories, myths and legends have a common element, and that is that they are mainly transmitted in a oral narrative medium; this leads to unreliability of the accounts.
Events, then, become somehow mutable.
What if the Crown story was real, and it got somehow merged and then distorted into the Human recollection of the Bloodstone story?
Of course, there is something that doesn’t line up with this:
-If the Crown thing really did happen, what’s with the blood part of the legend? Why did Doric approach the Gods?
What do you all think?
I did enjoy the GW: Beyond storyline, and I found most of the quests challenging (OMG, When Kappa Attack HM was… OMG). And it was weird, cause it dealt with the part of Cantha I liked the least: The Empire of the Dragon (I enjoyed a lot more the Kurzick/Luxon bits).
I, too, would have loved a Nightfall edition for GW: Beyond, but sadly it never happened.
Yes. The current “development cycle” we’re seeing heavily reminds me of the last updates in the original GW. They were about 2.3 developers working on it and you COULD tell.
Now it feels the same. Where is QA (Look at how bugged the last patch was)? Where are the more experienced writers?
And it may look like I’m roasting Anet, but actually I’m a big fan of their game; it’s just that things have so much potential and they sometimes take baffling decisions.
Missed chances, as you call them, seems to be the perfect term for it.
When used in good measure.
You have a lot of good points, and believe me, we agree on most things. GW2 storyline is not the game’s strongest suit, but it could have been.
Looks like a rationalization to me, to be honest.
Also, there should be some large catacombs (As per Ghosts of Ascalon) underneath the city.
Tyrians have been dealing with the Elder Dragons and outside forces trying to killing them all for centuries and longer. Death is still hard for them, but they have probably long excepted the fact that austerities happen constantly.
- Centaurs killing and enslaving villages.
- NC abducting and torturing their own brethren.
- SoS willingly working for and spreading the influence of the being that drove them all from their homes.
- A disgraced legion trying to kill their was back to the top.
- Being subject to the actions and experiments of a large group of sociopaths that have no scruples when it comes to expanding their knowledge.
Not even counting the Elder Dragons, everyday life in Tyria kinda sucks.
Plus, I don’t mind the jokes at all, because people do try to brighten up a dark situation with humor all the times. Even if it’s in poor taste. Life sucks for them, and if they allowed themselves to get effected by it, the entire cast would be filled with dark brooding Negative Nancys that don’t see a point to fighting at all since they are obviously all going to die anyway.
Times are real sad if we have to justify it for the writers/designers every time a complaint like this arises. It’s one of the main problems I have with GW2, the story is not engaging because it lacks urgency or drama. Deaths like Tybalt’s or Forgal’s were meaningful, but at the same time they were downplayed.
Also, you don’t have to be Brooding Sylvari or Weeping Asura to convey a sense of darkness and peril. If that’s all a writer can come up, just to go to established conventions, tropes and cliches, maybe it’s time to reconsider your choice in career.