Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Define “taint” then.

To me, it would be corruption by Mordremoth in this case. But having been purified, the Pale Tree is thus taintless – and I would argue the rest of that cave was too, given the lack of indication of Ventari going and performing a grand ritual on the Pale Tree.

So you’re saying that when Ronan found the seed, these pods were already pure?
…how!?
Let’s see, if we accept that Sylvari “come from the Dragon”, then the seed must come from him too, otherwise the race cannot stem from him. The fact that has been stated all over the announcements is that Mordremoth called, and many Sylvari answered.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So if the Pale Tree is without taint, so too would anything she makes. And this is true – until they’re influenced by outside sources like the Dream, Nightmare, and Mordremoth. Though the Dream is “good” so there’s no indication of “taint” in a negative sense; the Nightmare and Mordremoth are different situations, but we’ve been told that the two are not linked and that the Nightmare Court don’t intend to follow Mordremoth.

You are thinking only in black or white. What I pose is that, while the care of Ronan and then Ventari cleansed the Pale Tree, it was not complete. Something remained, that the Mother is constantly fighting. And Canach, the (Sylvari) PC and Laranthir, among others, clearly show that the call of Mordremoth CAN be resisted; so they are, in essence, free willed, but still can be tempted.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I will stress that NOTHING indicates that the Pale Tree was freed “due to care of Ronan and later Ventari” – this is 100% player speculation that has been proven false time and time again. Dragon minions are slaves, it’s not a matter of proper raising or convincing (aka nurture). They don’t have free will. Something must give them that free will first.

If what you says is true, that R&V’s actions had nothing to do with the Pale Tree being “good”, then someone needs to edit http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pale_Tree. It clearly reads:

Wiki:

[…]He and the peaceful centaur Ventari then tended the young tree, and their attitudes and philosophy had a significant influence on her nature.[…]

Not only that, but once again, if we accept that Sylvari are Dragon minions, and yet they show free will and… resilience to his beckoning… then some sort of cleansing must have happened, even if it was partial.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And about Mawdrey – no, it is not an example. Why? Just look at all the stuff we feed it. Foefire magic, which is known to be immune to corruption and even counter act it (Kralkatorrik couldn’t corrupt the ghosts, and during A Grisly Shipment and Armor Guard ghostfire – from the Foefire – is used to fight risen and it is far more effective against risen than standard beasts). We have Mists magic. We have destroyer magic. We have a whole much of oddities being used. It could be any one of them – or the combination of it all – that allowed Mawdrey to be influenced by the PC and become “friendly”.

Alright, that’s true, we gave it all that. Maybe it was one of the ingredients, or all combined. Or, you know, the empathy that the PC showed by jumping through hoops to give Mawdrey what it needed. The fact is, only one line is written about its conversion, and it’s the one I quoted on my previous post.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And dragon corruption isn’t removeable. The Forgotten path only gave Glint free will – it didn’t remove the transforming corruption. Same with Mawdrey – it still looks like a mordrem.

You speak of Dragon corruption merely as a physical malady. ED also affect the mind, you have said so yourself: minions don’t have free will. King Reza was affected, Glint was affected, the risen chicken was affected. Restoring their free will did not remove their physical transformation (or decay), but perhaps there is no spell developed for that… yet.

Warriors could summon Flesh Golem 253 years ago. It was called Dual Profession and supported by lore.

If new specializations seem to violate pre-established mechanics, just look at how the Daredevil now gets an extra dodge roll. Things change and evolve. So can a Ranger, and adapting is actually part of their class.

We have a difference of opinions, because I do think the Caladbolg had a taint from the get go; as you said, the sword is part of the Pale Tree, like a branch or bloom. Seeing as Ronan took a seed from a mysterious cave, surrounded by strange creatures, and it is heavily implied that other seeds had been there and are the sources of other Trees, I think that the seed that sprouted to form the Pale Tree had this taint.

Only due to the care of Ronan and later Ventari, did the Pale Tree get “cleansed” of the corruption or taint. Dragon corruption is removable: we not only have an example of this with the Forgotten path in Arah, but Mawdry itself is an example, as the flavor text for the Mysterious vine says that “This vine, while appearing to be touched by Mordremoth, has been grown from seed under the good influence of a hero of Tyria.”

So Caladbolg can inherently have a taint; the Pale Tree may still have some part of the Mordremoth energies inside: Let’s not forget the Shadow of the Dragon fought in the Dream when starting the Sylvari PS. The Mother may be holding that “dark passenger” (to quote Dexter) at bay.

While you raise interesting points, Konig, I actually think WP’s theory is a nice touch and an interesting plot thread to follow. You said that since the Pale Tree seems to be absolutely free of Mordremoth’s influence, Caladbolg, which was used to cleanse Orr, could not be an instrument of corruption.

However, if we think of Caladbolg of something akin to the One Ring, something that was made with a taint (As the seed for the Pale Tree was) but that can be used with good intentions (albeit in the end will have evil consequences), then the possibility of Mordremoth vying for Orr’s control is not so remote.

WP’s point is Caladbolg and the vines and plants that sprouted from the Artisan Waters upon the Cleansing ritual was done. Up to that point, I believe the theory is not viable. Mordremoth was fast asleep back then! It was only a couple of years later, when Scarlet made her move, that the ED woke up.

So, what I propose is a little different. What if, instead of this being a master plan from the beginning, which would pose MMoth was aware of unfolding events even while slumbering, those plants and vines were just a symbol of life returning to Orr; but NOW, now that MMoth is awake, he can USE them as a conduit for his power, for his corruption? Those waters reach all over Orr, which is how Zhaitan corrupted its land; it would be a forward post for MMoth to begin an even bigger offensive into Tyria.

So, to summarize: Mordremoth did not plan to use Traherne and Caladbolg to wrestle Orr from Zhaitan’s control; but the Cleansing provided him with a way to invade, now that he’s awake, and probably aware of the power void left in the previously sunken human kingdom.

What do we call them? “The Patriots”?

/stupidjoke

So, what you’re saying is that while the dragon models are used assets, they were acknowledged as something the gods did use, purposely?

Interesting.

I believe that the dragons that represented the Facets in GW1 were just reused assets of something that would be understood as powerful. The same dragon models (or very similar) are present in the Glint’s Lair mission, way back in Prophecies.

I do not think there’s a connection to the current lore.

I think Alessia and Reina has her grave in the Granite Citadel…

Probably his reflection, when he looked himself in the mirror in the morning.

It’s probably nothing, really.

While it will be really cool, I do believe the verses are too vague; it is easy to interpret them one way or another. I’d chalk it up to a case of apophenia.

Of course they can overlay images; they can even overlay videos. Remember when they showed you Lions Arch being attacked by Scarlet? Or the New Lion’s Arch? Those were videos that had been put on top of everything, while you had already been loaded into the map.

The thing is that the Jotun WERE very advanced. Arah explorable tells us that much, as well as some stories recounted by Thrull. Their infighting, “purity of blood” and inner wars precipitated a decline of their civilization.
They were highly magical and great stargazers.

That number is given to us by a living character that is not referencing her sources; it may be just an estimate from Eir, not factual age.

I just want to throw this out there: when Mordremoth communicated with Scarlet in images of destiny and blah blah, it was asleep. Now it is fully awake, perhaps it has regained the ability to communicate in a way that seems closer to language.

With that out of the door, I think this is just so that the player can understand.

Brain size is, generally speaking, not an indicator of intelligence. Whales and Elephants have bigger brains than humans, yet it is largely accepted humans are smarter (With a few exceptions).

It would be cool, though, if we found an Eye of the South beyond the Echovald FOrest, for example.

I always wondered if there was an Eye of the South or East…
I mean, why name your place in such a category?

Revenant needs to be balanced with existing content, not only new systems and creatures. Since the purpose of the Beta is to iron out bugs and unbalances, I would say it was a very good Beta.

I disagree on the part about him stealing the focus of the plot, but that has been discussed waaay too often in waaay too many places already.

I believe the writing team may have an opportunity here to correct something, while at the same time providing the fans with some sort of… present, in regards to the cries of “Death to Traeherne”. What if the Pact Marshall were to die while… sacrificing his life to save ours?

If done properly, he would still be dead (nice), and also give us a meaningful sacrifice. Sieran’s, Forgal’s and Tybalt’s, while the latter was emotional, did not really make an impression (at least on me), because their sacrifice was in vain. Claw Island was still taken, and… I’m pretty sure our mentor would also have been able to flee with us.

I have one. he new memorial to the fallen, the floor SEEMS to be tiled in jade. From the Jade Sea. I thought Cantha was inaccessible?
If you look at it, it looks a lot like the texture used in GW 1, perhaps a higher res version.

Well, there’s no clear indication that religion in Tyria has been structured into churches. Monks have answered to Dwayna, Lyssa, or as in Mhenlo’s case in GW1, to both Dwayna and Balthazar (Mainly because his parents each came from the priesthood of those two gods). Grenth also has priests, acolytes, etc.

However, you may have some indication by looking at the temple events in Orr. It seems the main enemy at each temple could have been the highest ranking member of the church, such as High Priestess or Acolyte (Although this title implies there are superior ranks).

You could also say the same about a fish vendor. Hang ‘round smelly things, such as reanimated corpses, you’re bound to catch the smell yourself.

She may be talking about the target of necromantic magic, not the wielder of necromantic magic. So, she distrusts necromancers because they bring back people who may “not have the same value system”, not because the necromancers themselves came back from the dead.

Dondarrion.2748:

The Humans spread like wildfire and moved to Tyria(Kryta), Elona, Cantha, etc. and the Forgotten were pushed out in Tyria & Elona but in Cantha the Humans and Forgotten remained more harmonious.

I don’t recall seeing Forgotten in Cantha, but please correct me if I’m mistaken.

Sorry, but Dwayna is Air and Life, among other things…

Rhialto.8423:

The fight was anticlimactic because we had spent the greater part of the end of the living story figuring out ways to cut off Zhaitan’s sources of power and sustenance. It was basically starving to death by the time we killed it and it still takes ships full of megalasers to bring it down for good.

In my opinion, Zhaitan was hardly starving to death. We only took down one of its Mouths, and a few Eyes, but I’m sure Zhaitan had consumed a lot more magic before.

It isn’t “people”. It’s the writers. The dichotomy is there from the start, splitting Sylvari and NC, Asura and Inquest, Charr and Flame Legion, Norn and Sons of Svanir, Humans and Bandits/Ministry.

GW2 does not have gray areas of morality. It’s either good or bad.

Yeah, gods used to have two domains, one of which used to be elemental:

Dwayna was Air and Life, Balthazar Fire and War, Grenth Ice and Death, and so on.

Yeah, that was also my impression. They withdrew into the Desert when Humans started to thrive.

segman.3560:

I’m an atheist too and this is serious bussiness. I dare to say that religious groups are making special game departments to cover mmos and other online games to spread misinformation about imaginary entities.

You mean imaginary entities like Elder Dragons, sentient plants and deities that leave at the first sight of problem?

Yeah, I can see how that’s a serious issue in a fantasy game.

Beating the dead horse with the same stick: the problem was the execution, the presentation, not the planning.

Because when you put it that way, yes, it is really tragic and compelling! But why, oh, why, did we have to hear that manic laughter, or go hunting for short stories on websites? Or draw conclusions on the forums (Where they may not even be confirmed)?

Thank you, by the way. I understand her a little better now, and you ALMOST made her “relatable.”

You know, I actually re-read everything we have on Scarlet a couple of nights ago, and I still can’t wrap my mind around her purpose. The real one. Because it seemed at some point that her defining trait was her will to make her own way, to set in motion her own journey and not be bound by a “Wyld Hunt” or a predetermined path; that’s why she mimicked a Soundless and walked away from The Grove.

Then she had the nightmares, where she finally saw the “dark entity” that spoke with images of “death, destruction and destiny”. Again, she rebelled and wanted to confront the entity and break free from any bonds.

So far, so good, someone who is completely against any manipulation or predetermination. And it seemed like she had a plan to completely forgo previous strings attached to her.

But then we get to the Breachmaker, we battle her and at the last moment, with her last breath, she utters “Too late”. Too late for what? Well, it doesn’t take us too long to know, because Mordremoth’s roar is heard as far as Lion’s Arch.

So it seems inconsistent. Because now she’s playing along; she’s following the desires of the “dark entity” (Granted, no one says it was Mordremoth, but come on), and worked towards its awakening.

The only occurrence that I think may have changed her position towards “destiny” is Omadd’s machine, where her sanity fractured. And that, folks, is where I think the inconsistency lies.

See, she was so strong-willed, she excelled in 3 different asura colleges, in a year. She forged 3 alliances, put together a secret base, traveled all over the place… but in the end succumbed to something else’s will.

So, not even Scarlet could break out of Mordremoth’s will… but Laranthir can? Caithe? Traherne? The Sylvari PC?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

And if it was really just about regaining their land, then why attack the other human nations as wel?

While I don’t agree with the mentality, from a military, strategic point of view, it makes sense.

To Charr, Humans are Humans. Not Orrians, or Ascalonians or Canthans. Humans. Who’s to say, Charr may be thinking, that Kryta will not seek retribution and try to advance on Char-owned Ascalon after the Searing? So they continue and wage war on the remaining human kingdoms.

But that’s giving them a lot of rationality, and that’s something Charr lacked 250+ years ago. Not because they never had it, but because they were being driven by Flame Legion and Flame Legion were getting orders from their “gods”: the Titans, which were spurred by Abaddon, who wanted to sow chaos. So that was basically the reason they attacked.

Don’t cross the beams!

Also, the Vision of the Pale Tree (Where Traherne finds inspiration) shows that Caithe succumbs to the Nightmare for Faolain. However, that is only a possible future, one that is rendered noncannon due to the PC reuniting DE.

So Caithe has given up on Faolain? Interesting…

Usually books like that are intended for romantic relationships… are they not?

Isn’t there an Indiscriminate Slayer title? I killed a bunch of small animals in my early days xD

I may be a bit hazy on the details, but I think the PACT was not involved in the Molten Alliance part. That would have been the Lionguard.

The book never went into an itemization of what DE killed, but you would need to assume they also killed critters, grubs, oakhearts, etc.

Zhaitan shouldn’t count. While I don’t want to talk about the very anticlimatic fight the last dungeon was, in the end it’s clear the whole Pact took Zhaitan down. No one gave it a last deathblow.

Unlike the Shadow of the Dragon. That was all us. We are very powerful, almost Legendary. Only Destiny’s Edge is above, having taken down more than one Dragon Champion in their prime.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

The dragons are the Vigil’s focus, but they are not their goal- the point of the Vigil is to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and that’s the sort of thing that never stops being necessary. Should the dragons be defeated, the crusaders would just be moved to conflicts like the Centaur War or the dredge attacks in the Shiverpeaks, I think, places with victims in need of assistance.

While you technically don’t say the Vigil would align with Humans (In the Centaur Wars) or against Dregde, that’s what I gather from this part.

And then I have to ask, why? Why against Centaurs, or against Dredge?

As far as I know, Centaurs are trying to reclaim lands they believe were theirs before Humans settled in Kryta and surrounding countryside. Not every Centaur is a fighting creature, there must be children and elders somewhere; why would we assume that Humans are the ones that cannot protect themselves?

Same goes for Dredge. They were enslaved in the past. They broke the leashes, and now they attack, expanding their territory. Is that such a bad thing? When you think about it, it’s the Norn who are invading, since they fled the North to escape Jormag, and took Dwarven ruins to settle. The same ruins that Dredge had claimed a while ago when they finally gained their freedom (Internal struggles aside).

Anyway, Vigil may very well become a mercenary force. I believe Soulkeeper meant for the Vigil to fight dragons, by military force. with the ED gone, they would have no purpose… unless during the journey, they find one.

I touch a little bit on the “Cleansed Orr” and “Centaur-Human Wars” on a video I made last week.

If Caithe believes the NC has no redemption, she sure has a malleable opinion; she believes Faolain can get back to the right side of the tracks.
She even has a book at home on how to make long-distance relationships work.

Not kidding.

Shiren.9532:

Livia might be dead. She lived longer than a normal human, perhaps she used the Scepter of Orr to grant her life after death and that’s why she was able to appear in Sea of Sorrows, aesthetically the same as she was in Eye of the North.

Livia is special. A possible explanation for her special status is that she became a lich like the last wielder of the Scetper of Orr.

The last wielder of the Scepter was already a Lich when he came into possession of the iem.

That bit about Lyssa sounds so amazing (Congratulations, it’s an awesome theory), it certainly isn’t the case.

Hi everybody.

Sorry if these seems like a shameless plug or self-promotion, but I actually don’t think this will net my any gain. I just made it for the community.

Check out the video here, when you get a chance.

The interesting thing here is that all races accept the same currency, which probably means they are NOT minted.

Minting was usually done by cultures that were powerful, and decided they could show it by stamping their rulers visage in their currency, adding value to them while subtracting value from non-minted / differently-minted currencies.

I said as much; to think that somebody would want just a recreational map with green trees and nothing but blue sky, is naive. Events, activities and challenges need to be developed.

Which calls for people, assets and resources that may not be readily available. I get that. I suppose I am just hopeful.

Man, again, just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist (A reason to be in a risen-less Orr).

One of the biggest sins committed was when you join an order. You go from recruit to high command in a matter of 4 missions / PS instances, and you haven’t actually proven your worth. It felt rushed.