Guild Wars 2

So you don’t prefer a stun to a daze.

What? I don’t think I could have been any more clearer there. If you’re just looking to argue go somewhere else.

Voodoo Tina.4180:

And Confounding Suggestions – you say a stun is preferable to a daze, but don’t like a trait that lets half your dazes be stuns. Wait, what?

I’m not sure what’s confusing about that. Confounding Suggestions is essentially a chance for a 1 second snare when you daze. If something can’t cast I’m not really worried about where it walks in one second.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Rhyno.7084:

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

Seriously? Range? Greatsword has far better range and is superior at maintaining it. Staff has far better range and is superior at maintaining it.
Clone generation? I suppose if you want to generate a clone that does nothing, then, sure. Staff clones fire Winds of Chaos, which is far better and synergizes well with iWarlock.

Are you one of those people who makes blanket statements and can’t actually support it with a good argument? Yeah…guess you are.

The Greatsword is a 2-handed weapon.
The Staff is a 2-handed weapon.

If you are going to tell me that off hands aren’t worth using, just stop posting and learn the character.

Your “argument” is that scepter clones don’t auto attack for a lot of damage. Are you seriously dropping clones for their auto attacks? I sure hope not. Seriously though sit down and read the Mesmer’s traits and go watch some tutorial videos, save me the time of explaining it all.

Enlighten us – on what occasion do you need to use the scepter over every other weapon, in PVE?

Seriously? Clone generation and range obviously.

Are you one of the people like “zexion” who say stuff along the lines of “Auto attack is low damage, weapon must be garbage.” If so I don’t want to bother. I still can’t believe there are people who are blind to everything except immediate damage.

The hilarious part is when people (zexion) talk about auto attack damage but they don’t even understand how it displays.

EDIT: Why did that guy randomly go nuclear on Roven for asking a question? Anyway…

You were doing great until you hit Confusion. It is very easy to get 20+ stacks on single targets and that’s absurdly strong in PvP. It’s not as dramatic in PvE but considering it takes very, very little investment it’s not a problem. “Confusion” builds are goofy and poor though. Confusion just comes from in most builds.

You hit the nail on the head with Confounding Suggestions. Dumbest trait available in my opinion. Atleast Descent into Madness has funny uses.

The issue is that people don’t know how to use the scepter, it’s pretty embarrassing.

The only lackluster weapon right now is the Torch. The other 6 are all good. I have to carry all 6 because not having one kittens you.

One very interesting thing about the Mesmer is that a majority of builds aren’t dependent on weapons compared to most other professions.

20% cooldowns are nice, but beyond that the only noteworthy trait is pistol range and it’s associated confusion glitch. Every other weapon trait is really average compared to other available traits.

Oh, and yes, I am talking specifically about PvE.

I doubt it’s intentional. It does work though and you should always be taking that trait if you’re even partially using the pistol (and you typically should be carrying on in your bag atleast for dungeons)

It’s a class with tons of utility and very high DPS requiring a little ramp-up and maintenance.

Yes.

15char

The pistol skill cooldown+range trait in the Dueling tree causes the duelist to proc confusion all 8 times.

Levelord.5746:

So… how can you stack 3 illusions if they only last 3 seconds?

Really? You can summon like 6 illusions in that time if you chose to do so.

Scepter 1 → Scepter 3 → Pistol 4 → Staff 2 → Staff 4 → Roll → Roll

But wait, there’s more!

iDisenchanter, iDefender and Mirror Images.

Ok so that’s 11.

It’s a good weapon, I use it a lot. Not having a ranged auto attack is very awkward and clones are fantastic if you know what you’re doing.

The issue is people want to use AFK phantom builds and they get upset when everything doesn’t work out perfectly for the build.

You got Mantra heals up to nearly 3000? What is your healing stat at, I never got close to that in testing. I dismissed Mantra builds but that might be worth re-investigating.

Dueling gives the best stat combination of all 5 trees so every point is valuable. On top of that it has good major traits. Phantasmal Fury and Deceptive Evasion are awesome and you’d have to be running scepter/focus to not benefit from the weapon traits.

There you go, I have three phantasms out. Your move, Sherlock…

I guess you weren’t following the conversation from the start, they are discussing DPS phantasms.

Way to ruin the joke

they do over 15k damages…..

k

Yes, Phantasmal Warden is a very bad skill. ANet should buff Mesmers because they are very very bad.

Yeah.

Anyone suggesting Chaos Storm for tagging mobs in DE isn’t in Orr. Plain as that.

Tagging is done with GS + Sword/Focus. Everything else isn’t even close.

We discussed Rampager’s vs. Zerkers earlier and I always go with Rampagers for 2 reasons. High DPS mesmer builds rely on bleed, and Rampager’s has higher precision and crits make the builds function. You also get a ton of free confusion that condition damage takes advantage of.

That being said Zerker’s is better for tagging creeps during crowded DEs.

Can we stop talking about it please? Everyone should go back to saying that the Mesmer is the wet noodle of PvE.

Also I lol’d at this part

Now it doesn’t have the raw damage output of a Berserker or Swordsman

Ignore everyone telling you to pick 1 weapon set and never change. It’s bad gameplay.

You need at-least a pistol and focus, and I’d recommend both a sword and scepter, and a GS and staff.

The best DPS split is 10-30-0-0-30, and another good split is 0-25-0-25-20 with a little wiggleroom with 5 of those points.

You want condition damage on both builds. Builds that hard 30-30 GS builds are going to lack serious DPS without bleed.

Having access to both iDuelist and iWarden is absolutely critical to being useful through an entire dungeons, anyone not carrying both a pistol and a focus is kittening themselves.

Confusion based build? Ew.

Confusion is a little bonus you get with shatter builds, and stacking confusion is easier with clones anyway.

EasymodeX.4062:

Heh, perma Vigor, strong Might uptime, double AOE heals, Protection procs, Regen procs.

Only thing a Mesmer doesn’t really provide in a support build is Stability.

And then all the conditions …

And Swiftness, and 50% damage reduction from defender, reflection bubbles, etc. etc. etc.

And as you said – its all about who deals dmg – you or phantasms. I believe its not the way phantasms should be used. Right now its 50/50 dmg for mesmer and phantasms. About half of your dmg as power or crit mesmer comes from phantasms. Shouldnt it be more for mesmer, and phantasms used as utility?

Why should it be that way? Because you said so? What’s wrong with disposable heavy hitting DoTs that actually exist in the physical game space? I think it’s a unique twist on class/DoT classes. Every class in GW2 is more varied than GW1. There are no “support” professions, just professions that can support. The Mesmer has outrageously good support, bordering on overpowered. If you want to play the class as a DPS that works great too though.

They certainly toned down “weird” or unique effects though between GW1 and GW2. That’s a general game design issue though, not specific to the Mesmer. It’s like the difference between DotA and LoL.

Between those two, Precision/Power/Condition Damage.

The decision is purely about DPS. The 2nd set gives you more precision, which is more important, and the Condition damage you get out damages the crit damage you get with just about every build you can use, most notably warden/duelist bleed builds.

Note that condition damage will not help you tag mobs in the crappy Dynamic Events where everything dies in 1 second though. ANet said they were working on that.

Even without condition damage Sharper images are still worth it, your “Base” ticks with no condition damage is around 45. Specced into condition damage that will more than double.

I suggest taking the time to read all of the Mesmer’s skills and watch some Mesmer guide videos.

Indeed it does. That explains a lot. I had always assumed it was just other people using combo finishers that I wasn’t noticing.

Here you can see based off Time Warp’s cooldown and the confusion stack that it was up for the whole duration. 8 shots, 2 stacks.

http://i.imgur.com/OeblU.jpg

The most I’ve gotten is 5 stacks.

Yes, I’m testing it right now. I get between 1 and 3 stacks typically.

It’s an old goofy build but at the end of the day it doesn’t have chase or stopping power.

Mac.1936:

Vexor.3640:

Don’t bank on the Torch cooldown reset from cancelling it early. That’s probably a bug and will be changed.

Duelist has a 20% chance (as does Magic Bullet) to proc “chaos bullets” through ethereal fields.

I guess no one is listening to me. Like I said, maybe that’s how it is suppose to be, but unless I somehow have magical illusionary duelists that’s not how it currently works. I get 8 stacks per duelists every time without fail.

We’re listening to you, you’re just either wrong, lying, or you really do have magic duelists.

Dude you need to go back and read the tooltip on Mass Invisibility.

ToxicToothpick.4396:

Just gave Warden a shot.
Going to use Focus now.
I thought they did LESS damage then Duelist, as would make sense, because they are trading DPS for the utility of projectile protection.

But nope, they do more.

And with Phantasmal Haste they seem to do it more often.

The trade off is that the Warden stands still making it useless against moving targets beyond a couple hits, and it has no range making it crumble to Melee.

Warden is anti ranged. Duelist is more reliable and Anti Melee.

Warden is better where you can use it. Duelist is just more reliable, you should have both weapons on you anyway.

I still can’t believe people are calling for Mesmer buffs.

25 inspiration is a iWarden build. That’s pretty much it. It’s a very solid build. It is not the highest DPS build, but it’s really high up there for Dungeons and PvP.

Mouhappai: The shatters treat you as a clone, meaning the effect occurs instantly in a PBAoE around you.

Nretep: Condition Duration and Bleed Duration do not affect the bleed duration of Sharper Images so far as my testing shows.

Aimeryan: In PvP or PvE? AFAIK the only way to drop targeting in PvP is true stealth, but in my experience the trait that creates a clone on dodge seems to draw aggro a majority of the time. I admit I do not know much about the aggro system in GW2.

Deneroth.2854:

I came up against a group of 4 in WvW last night … took down all 4. unfortunately i wasnt able to do the finish move on the last one who got away … made me sad panda

Like they have said – not an OP class just a lot more difficult to deal with at first.
Still not sure how some of the rangers are hitting me for 15k damage….

Had a good chuckle at this

You guys really need to understand that DoTs will not tag anything in the DEs we’re talking about.

Feedback bubbles are not going to do anything, cry of frustrations and confusions won’t do anything. Confusion does nothing because they never attack.

If you don’t know what we’re talking about, go to the Penitent Waypoint and tell me how many tags you got with stuff like Chaos Storm.

^Don’t be confused by this, clones do not inheret Sigil of Earth.

The most reliable weapon set at high level DE’s is hands down GS + Sword/Focus.

Drop your GS skills, swap weapons, drop your iWarden in the front of the pack, and run along side them slashing away with your sword.

GS 5 to make them miss elementalist AoE.

Keep in mind that the Warden will finish his ENTIRE attack before popping due to his target dying.

Condition damage is 100% absolute trash in Dynamic Events, it’s ONLY good while soloing and in dungeons, keep that in mind. Do not expect a versatile condition damage build.

Condition damage gear is fantastic with the Warden OR Duelist. It’s actually even better with the Warden.

Sharper images drops a 5s stack of bleed per crit, with near 100% crit chance on your Phantasms, you can expect 11 stacks off of the Warden. If those ticks are for 80 damage, you’re getting another 4400 damage out of the Warden’s attack, in an AoE. Wowzers. If you go for crit damage instead you’re not going to get nearly that much out of it.

I tested the bleed damage against test dummies at 0 condition damage vs. a lot (can’t remember the exact number.) and the bleed amount went from around 40 to over 80, so depending on what the warden is hitting for you’re looking at a huge DPS boost, more than you’ll get from some crit damage.

I really should sit down and do the math using the correct bleed damage formula though (website is wrong.) The discussion comes down to getting the right mix and the trade-off isn’t always one to one. (for example crit damage GEMS in the jewerly will almost certainly be better)

Of course that damage doesn’t transfer as well to the iWarlock either, but I typically drop more duelists/wardens than warlocks.

Bleed is the best condition for damage, and you get a TON of free confusion.

To Furienify, I was responding to the OP’s build, I didn’t realize you were a different person. I’ll take a look in a sec.

EDIT: Looked at the build. Do you have Confusing Combatants mostly for the stats you get from the 5 trait points? That build looks solid for the Focus. I like that you also prefer the feedback bubble, I do too.

To echofoxtrot, now you’re really confusing me, iMage is the Torch phantasm.

The combo of Crit Damage/Chance is unique to 4 classes, Thief, Ranger, Mesmer, and one other I forget. So good for DPS, the other 4 classes get Precision and Condition damage which is honestly what we should have but I’m glad we don’t.

If you don’t want to use the pistol at all, I think you’re missing out but I think the precision versions are still going to be better.

Reflection and retaliation do very little damage, which brings the discussion down to where the 20% CDs are, and the lost health. I think it’s a tossup, but I think swapping between a pistol and a focus is the way to go.

Well the first thing you should realize is that your weapon set isn’t your build. You can swap them out in the middle of dungeons.

I just made a post here on a dungeon build that is pretty good but I have a different opinion on how to trait it, you can read both and decide for yourself

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Support-Build-for-Dungeons/first#post130623

I suspect that the people suggesting shatter and chaos storm haven’t farmed the Penitent path.

I never said to not use the warden, I’m saying that I can’t think of a dungeon where it works great the whole way through.

I use the pistol and the focus, as everyone should bring flexible weapons, not just 1 set. Now the question is which to spec for.

The warden does more DPS with dampening obviously, at the expense of popping easily making it useless in the fights with gratuitous AoE.

The Duelist is much, much easier to drop and keep.

Since you can use both the question becomes which to spec for.

If you spec for the focus, you get:
200 Vit, 200 Healing
20% Focus CD, Reflect, Phant regen, Phant retaliation, and 20% CD on glamours.

If you spec for the pistol, you get:
250 Precision, +20% crit damage
20% Pistol and Sword CD, huge duelist range, bleed on crit

This choice seems like a no brainier to me seeing as the pistol spec will way, way out DPS the focus spec, even when you’re using the focus.

That being said, it won’t work if you can’t stay alive without the extra health. I personally use the scepter, skipping the sword CD stuff for Deceptive Evasion but that’s personal preference.

And let me repeat: I utilize the Warden in dungeons regardless of what build I’m using.

Mesmers aren’t the most overpowered in my opinion, but they are certainly on the strong side of the spectrum.

Why in the world would you blow 25 points in inspiration for 15% damage? That’s awful.

Swap all of those points out and dump into Dueling, then Domination if you don’t want illusionary elasticity.

Well first of all, mantras can be cast at any time, even while you’re using a different skill so that’s really important. In general though Mantra builds are trash.