I think you’re underestimating how strong weakness is.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
Yes master I’ll do what you say master. Whatever. Thanks for the lecture
Isn’t it exhausting being so angry about the class all the time?
Even if blood magic is amazing, Condition builds for necro will be close to the bottom of the barrel in terms of other classes condition builds.
In pvp condi is dead. Too much removal, the maths is against it. Time to let condi go probably. Makes me sad but o well.
I honestly think siphoning through death shroud is an insane buff. I think we are going to be busted. Shame because i am only really good at condi necro so doubt i will be ahead of all the people who reroll.
Ofc we could just suck too
I don’t think shoutbow is going to survive in the new meta. Burst classes will be too strong and they toned down a lot of the things that made shoutbow over the top. They’ll still remove a ton of condis and have support, but they won’t survive as long or bring the damage they once did.
As long as diamond skin ele isn’t the norm, condi can make a comeback.
That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.
Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.
It would have been nerfed if it went live like that. Any build that can be utterly dominant by just pressing 1 (which this build would have between scepter, chill procs, and dhuumfire) will be nerfed. You’d tear apart anything but a shoutbow from range, and even then you might get to the shoutbow because they’d have constant poison and the chill would draw out their cooldowns so long that they would eventually run out of buttons to press with their face.
I agree about the barbed precision change, totally unnecessary. But I think we all knew that lingering curses wouldn’t stay. I mean, every chill from chill of darkness would be 4 seconds. You could leave plague with a minute of chill on a target, as an aoe. It was too strong and it was going to be nerfed.
Players everywhere need to l2p.
Why do you always mention dragon finisher players like it matters? You can lose or afk your way to dragon rank. It’s meaningless.
I this may be another patch where necro doesn’t get all the changes we want, but the meta shifts around us. This has happened before where the necro community was upset with a patch, but the meta shifted around us in unforeseen ways. Not that it made us viable, but I have played my necro in pvp for over a year and been having fun despite it being an unviable class.
For example, engineers seem to be super strong post patch. Who counters engis? That would be necros. Thieves and mesmers seem very strong, but both carry almost no condition removal. If shoutbows somehow drop from the meta and diamond skin eles dont become a thing, condimancer will work again, and certain builds could mitigate a lot of damage.
Just a hypothetical there but its possible.
I’m not pumped about the consume conditions changes, and I think there is still a big disconnect between us and the devs, but otherwise there are some very positive things happening in this patch. And Reaper will help too.
A lot of the content isn’t hot dependent. I’m probably not going to get it right away, if at all.
That comparrison to burning damage is the epitome of kittening bias by Anet. Anet your faces were just rubbed in it, and you have once again shown your overwhelming bias to certain classes. Ha hahahah.
It’s not comparable since, you know, they changed how burning functions entirely.
If it said 4 stacks of burning for 4 seconds it might be the same, but it’s not even close.
Here’s a better question in my opinion: why can warriors stomp and rez in rampage, when necros can’t in plague or lich form?
I’m not understanding why engineers received this sort of a trait. Would have been cool for mesmers or rangers with a shorter duration.
Seems like an engi can just crank out nades or mortar shots when a thief is stealthed and that’s it. That’s not exactly skillful.
Same.
I was sort of OK with some of these changes, but the more I’m noticing details the less excited I am.
Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.
That’s a great point. Horrible change but a great point.
This is a big buff, because the trait brings Consume Conditions down to a 20-second cooldown.
The problem, I think, is the trait is basically mandatory. You need to get a 20-second-cooldown Consume Conditions, a 24-second-cooldown Corrupt Boon, and a 2-minute-cooldown Plague. Period.
So what happens with Terror and Path of Corruption? Neither can really be taken.
I think Terror could be bumped up to Grandmaster — maybe switched with Parasitic Contagion. (Weakening Shroud isn’t that strong either, but it could at least be good for power builds.) Because the net effect of these changes is necromancers will gain a bunch of sustained pressure and healing through Blood Magic and lower cooldowns on corruption skills, but will lose all their burst by losing the class-defining Terror.
CC’s cooldown was increased to 30 seconds from 25, so actually taking the trait keeps the cooldown at 24 seconds, compared to 25 now. It’s pretty much no change at all, and certainly not a buff.
The trait is a 33-percent cooldown reduction, not 20 percent. It brings Consume Conditions from 30 to 20 seconds.
I will need to edit this thread… but it’s still a big loss for power necros. Signet of vampirism is an uncomfortable safety net. And it’s actually only the active from SoV that works through death shroud, so power necros got nerfed pretty hard with the heal skills.
Seems fair kappa.
(edited by Roe.3679)
It seems that there are a lot of people still reacting to the changes so far, but I want to try to lay out a case as to why Consume Conditions shouldn’t have a longer base cooldown. Like how it has counterplay, or how it isn’t one of the strongest heals in the game, compared to skills like healing signet which has no cast and a very high HPS. Consume conditions needs to be removing multiple conditions on each cast to compare to those heals.
A 30 second cooldown is too much. Plus, I know that many people’s reactions to conditions on a necro is that the necro can end up just using them in some fashion, but there will be plenty of times a necro will take 10% more damage from that vulnerability.
This change shouldn’t go through.
This is a big buff, because the trait brings Consume Conditions down to a 20-second cooldown.
The problem, I think, is the trait is basically mandatory. You need to get a 20-second-cooldown Consume Conditions, a 24-second-cooldown Corrupt Boon, and a 2-minute-cooldown Plague. Period.
So what happens with Terror and Path of Corruption? Neither can really be taken.
I think Terror could be bumped up to Grandmaster — maybe switched with Parasitic Contagion. (Weakening Shroud isn’t that strong either, but it could at least be good for power builds.) Because the net effect of these changes is necromancers will gain a bunch of sustained pressure and healing through Blood Magic and lower cooldowns on corruption skills, but will lose all their burst by losing the class-defining Terror.
CC’s cooldown was increased to 30 seconds from 25, so actually taking the trait keeps the cooldown at 24 seconds, compared to 25 now. It’s pretty much no change at all, and certainly not a buff.
Hey guys, I made this topic in the PvP section: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Please-don-t-increase-Consume-Conditions-CD/first#post5149307
Here is what it says. Please help me bring attention to keeping consume conditions where it’s at now.
Please don’t increase the base cooldown of consume conditions. I get it why you did it – now it can have a cooldown reduction tied to consume conditions. But all it will do is make the cooldown a second faster than the cooldown is today. Otherwise, you took the one heal skill necros have used since launch and nerfed it.
I realize that you gave Signet of Vampirism a significant buff, but I don’t think that makes it viable; even if it does, having fewer options isn’t exactly a fun choice. Well of Blood and Blood Fiend are still not working through death shroud, and therefore are not viable.
Consume conditions still has a ridiculous animation and cast time – any decent pvp player knows to interrupt it. It has it’s flaws even with a 25 second cooldown. But increasing the cooldown by 20% seems overly harsh. Power necros won’t take the cooldown reduction as it’s in the Curses line, and condi necros will have to give up 2 other very strong traits over the reduction.
I don’t believe a 20 second cooldown on consume conditions for those condi necros that take the trait will be unbalanced in the least. They shouldn’t be rewarded for the trait with the status quo of the last 3 years.
Please don’t increase the base cooldown of consume conditions. I get it why you did it – now it can have a cooldown reduction tied to consume conditions. But all it will do is make the cooldown a second faster than the cooldown is today. Otherwise, you took the one heal skill necros have used since launch and nerfed it.
I realize that you gave Signet of Vampirism a significant buff, but I don’t think that makes it viable; even if it does, having fewer options isn’t exactly a fun choice. Well of Blood and Blood Fiend are still not working through death shroud, and therefore are not viable.
Consume conditions still has a ridiculous animation and cast time – any decent pvp player knows to interrupt it. It has it’s flaws even with a 25 second cooldown. But increasing the cooldown by 20% seems overly harsh. Power necros won’t take the cooldown reduction as it’s in the Curses line, and condi necros will have to give up 2 other very strong traits over the reduction.
I don’t believe a 20 second cooldown on consume conditions for those condi necros that take the trait will be unbalanced in the least. They shouldn’t be rewarded for the trait with the status quo of the last 3 years.
(edited by Roe.3679)
^ good thoughts I think. Except LC was scepter only with the traits that they announced in April.
I’m sad about consume conditions but otherwise some legit changes.
Good:
Staff buffed, soul reaping buffed, terror moved back to master slot, unholy martyr and siphons got buffed (some F this we knew), signet of vampirism healing through death shroud. Also very surprised at the increases to DS totals.
Bad or shocked it didn’t change:
No changes to death magic? Really surprised it is staying as is. Axe? Signets? Focus skills are still unimpressive. No tools against projectiles. Quickening thirst 75% health threshold – why? Consume conditions cooldown is likely pushed to unviable. No change to wurm cast time. Spectral walk nerfed.
I am not sure if these changes equate to good or bad, but death magic staying very unimpressive limits builds in a big way. I think necro will make it out better than present day, but no major changes to builds that I can see right now.
They couldn’t help it, literally nothing they could have done about it.
I’m not too worked up about the stream going dowm, but it happened like 4 hours ago and there is nothing posted to YouTube that I can find. They got through 4 classes in 2 hours, so it seems like they are taking their time here.
Maybe we’ll get to know about our changes by June 22nd.
Don’t get too excited before we know what necro is getting / losing, boys. xD
We lost reliable boon removal which is a huge loss.
It’s a huge loss for strategic decisions, but since it’s random it just means it will be good as often as it’s bad.
I’d rather have new maps then a new place to wait.
Actually I’d rather be able to queue anywhere and have new maps. Was much better when I could hot join or roam in WvW while I waited for a match.
Healing signet isn’t that strong.
I’m fairly certain that healing signet has the highest HPS in game, with 0 cast, 0 decisions to be made, 0 conditions to be met. Only counter is 100% poison uptime that can be reapplied as quickly as it is removed.
I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.
The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch
You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.
Yeh and pigs might fly :P. There is no point waiting for a few reasons:
1, Necro is conceptually limited – they wont give it healing, vigor, evades on weapon skills, ports, invulns. All of this is how you actually survive in pvp
2, Nobody at anet plays necromancer so they fundamentally dont understand its needs and they dont understand how to create traits to create viable builds. Sure they could stumble across it by luck but I doubt it.
3, Necro is judged from the view of fighting AGAINST IT. Hence why they remove or nerf stuff with no “counter play”. Other classes are judged by “that is cool to play with”. As in with the opposite perspective.
I don’t think it’s that black and white. Necro has some issues they can fix, and some they can’t. I think, personally, is that some classes lack weaknesses, and necro has a few too many. I wish that were evened out.
I am really disappointed that greater marks wasn’t merged into the staff trait. It is frustrating to have that stuck alone in the death magic line. The death magic line is useless for almost all necromancers. The grandmaster traits (which you now have to take if you go into that line) of death magic are all unviable in anything except minions (which is itself unviable). So greater marks is gone and with that any hope of really competing in pvp. Fighting dps guards and engis is hard enough with greater marks. Without it we are screwed. At least the condi spec is screwed.
The new traits will reward classes with coherent trait lines because they will be able to specialise by going into a single line. Necromancer has traits all over the place with no over-riding structure (like staff traits in different lines) because arenanet do not have a single dev who plays necro or understands necro. The new traits will lead to another 12 months where necro is worse than ever before. Other classes have coherent trait lines with clusters of things you can specialise in. They will be much stronger after the patch
You need to wait like 8 hour until after the stream. We don’t know how everything will shake out. Necro traits could end up stronger and other classes weaker than the last stream.
I just want them to show us how they intend to finalize the blood magic revamps and how vampiric aura will work.
This.
Also, whenever they do big announcements like this, we can fairly safely assume it will be 2 weeks, though not guaranteed. But we really need to see the changes, I was hoping there would be a second round of “see what we’ve changed is there anything from here” instead of just one round of it.
I’m pretty surprised that they would have changes when the WTS series just finalized it’s qualifiers. They just picked the teams and now will be revamping balance.
I’m sure we’d still get the same teams but still a little surprising to me.
Last time they delayed a balance patch for months to get a tournament in it almost killed the entire pvp community. Either way, these teams can adapt. It will be more fun for them and more fun to watch.
I agree. And we all know that the best team from NA and the best 2 teams from EU are going (I don’t know much about China but I think it’s the same story) and I doubt any trait changes would change that.
I’m really hoping that we get something good. Here’s to hoping 12 pages of replies to The Gates Assassin paid off in some way.
First, they are announcing changes tomorrow. Second, all these added condis won’t matter much if shoutbow still pushes condi builds out.
They are adding a checkmark in case you want to play stronghold or conquest, I don’t see why they can’t do the same for solo only if you queue up alone.
I wish they would combine the queues as they stand now and give these sorts of options.
Yup, we’ll know all about it on Monday.
Sclerite warhorn is the best necro warhorn Imo
we’re basically stuck with whatever they’ve come up with. for a while. the patch is likely going through a bit more QA a this point and then release. a whole bunch of us gave many, many amazing suggestions in all prof subforums when they were first doing the reveals, and we can only hope they took some of this advice (unlikely). there were some really bad ideas seen during the reveals, and some good ones.
for example, rangers are completely in the dark regarding trap, spirit and shout reworks. we literally have no idea what awaits and with their track record, im worried.
Yes and no. The specialization lines will change a lot when they come. Necro specifically seems to be balanced around having that line, and I think Necro builds will be awkward until reaper comes along, unless blood and death magic got some super legit changes.
Personally I highly doubt that necro builds will be as strong as other classes while these new traits come into play, but before specializations arrive.
Edit – I guess this is about heartseeker, which is like the 4th most important thief mobility skill.
Heartseeker is their best mobility skill unless they have targets for sword 2 spam.
If that were true shortbow wouldn’t be the meta on every thief.
Is anyone else wondering if we’ll also be seeing the signet reworks, and if they may be changing any other skills, like axe? I’m basing these thoughts off of the changes we saw to traits. I really hope that the new traits bring legit changes to other aspects of the class.
I don’t really like them much, personally, but you could probably combine it with some other skins for a fun looking necro.
How is this a buff for thieves? Chill already didn’t touch their movement skills, they don’t have leaps.
retreats will most likely be affected by the change as well (some of their rolls backwards are retreats).
That heal removes chill as it is, if anything this may reduce the movement from that skill because of the swiftness change.
How is this a buff for thieves? Chill already didn’t touch their movement skills, they don’t have leaps.
Edit – I guess this is about heartseeker, which is like the 4th most important thief mobility skill.
(edited by Roe.3679)
I don’t think even more mobility for very mobile classes is a good change.
I wish they didn’t sell death’s charge as being awesome for ignoring movement impairing effects before they made it baseline.
That’s a big change for us, using cripple or chill at the right time actually kept some of those classes around. Now they’ll always get away.
No real rules. It all depends on if it’s a good time to be on point or not, if you need LOS or not, if you need to rotate to another point or not. You’ll start to notice that certain places will give you more LOS options while you can still leave or deal damage.
It’s going to be sooner than later. They need to get it out asap so teams have time to prepare for WTS. It might not make significant changes to comps, but you never know it could.
Mesmers, thieves and engis saw big changes. Warriors will see 2 more grandmaster traits in the current shoutbow build. Medi guard builds will change. Dd eles can pick diamond skin – I mean it’s a big shake up. Maybe necros will even see decent traits.
One thing I’ve learned is that even relatively small developments reverberate through the meta, so big changes are hard to gauge. It could change a lot.
This skill is mainly useless in PvP, really. People run and dodge around you while you channel. Usually hits next to nothing. However, you can immob him with dagger 3 if you want to waste it on this rather sub-par skill.
It hits no matter what direction they are facing. And no good player is wasting a dodge on dagger 2. It has limited uses, but they do exist.
The next content update is bringing changes to Guild Wars 2, and we’re excited to tell you all about them.
Here is what the blog post say. We just don’t have anymore info then that. So I’m supporting this :
That next patch could be anywhere from one week away to a couple months away. Probably at least a month out, since they still haven’t shown the finished engineer trait lines, or the revamped blood line, or…one other line they said they were changing a lot. Arcane maybe?
I think he is right when he say that this can be un a couple of month. Well, if they show every change of this pac 1 week each, they can extend a lot their dev time for HoT.
They wouldn’t be mentioning it now if it were a couple months out. We already know it’s coming before HoT so we know it’s a couple months out whether they say anything or not. It’s likely happening in the next few weeks if hey are saying anything about it
Ranger invuln only affects direct damage, not conditions. Most power Rangers hardly run any condition removal. Dodge rapid fire and get close enough that the autos aren’t hitting you for crazy damage, but not so close that they can wreck you with greatsword, and spam away.
Be aware that there are a couple different ranger builds out there. Some can clear condis very well, but won’t blow you away with a longbow from 1500 range. Some have sort of a mix. But any glass power ranger will melt to condis and their heal is even very susceptible to poison.
They can run WTS on an older version of the game if they need to.
True but then people are practicing on the new version and playing on the old one. And it doesn’t make much sense to unveil new traits and miss the opportunity to have casters talking about the new traits in the time between matches, instead of breaking down what the new traits do and why they are being chosen.
I just want them to show us how they intend to finalize the blood magic revamps and how vampiric aura will work.
This.
Also, whenever they do big announcements like this, we can fairly safely assume it will be 2 weeks, though not guaranteed. But we really need to see the changes, I was hoping there would be a second round of “see what we’ve changed is there anything from here” instead of just one round of it.
I’m pretty surprised that they would have changes when the WTS series just finalized it’s qualifiers. They just picked the teams and now will be revamping balance.
I’m sure we’d still get the same teams but still a little surprising to me.