I see people saying lingering curses is being buffed? How? and where is this information?
You should probably check out dulfy.
Sure burning does more damage, but with Reaper, chill uptime is more important.
Explain why..?
Because as a Reaper chill will reduce incoming damage, if you’re condi, it will deal damage, and depending on traits, hits against chilled foes will grant life force and might.
There are still a lot of things that need to be addressed, even besides balance. Rewards, queues, doing anything while waiting for the queues, leaderboards, etc.
If we talk about it now maybe it will get in in time for HoT.
If it was a faster cast with a compressed duration it would be a lot better. Now I mostly just use it for stealthed or mist formed enemies.
Wells are very tempting to get off quickly, but anyone who is a threat to you will dodge roll out of a well if they can. Wells are good to use on a point if someone is trying to prevent you from decapping, because they need to eat the well or use the point. They are great on immobilized targets, and especially when someone is trapped in ring of warding. In big group fights on point, they can get a lot of hits. But unless you immobilize and/or cc’d someone, they aren’t the best in 1v1 except to use to kite through or to make it dangerous to be stabbing you for those 5 seconds.
The most satisfying is when you have both wells up and someone is down, and someone else is trying to res them. Very easy to drop wells and cleave and get both kills.
I’ll always try to burst down another dps class, but I wouldn’t say I got out of my way to do it. One big life blast and chill of death will knock a zerker out most of the time, by those classes usually have escapes or defensive cooldowns so personally I don’t go too far out of my way to focus them. I also don’t avoid cele classes, I actually seek them out (eles and shoutbows more than engis). I don’t avoid 1v1 with them, most shoutbows can’t really do a lot against a power necro except run assuming you aren’t royally messing up. They don’t have much cc or spike damage so necro does ok against them. Eles are harder but if you well bomb them after water attunement you are in good shape.
Power necro is sort of both a team fighter and a solo fighter, and sort of neither. You can swing a team fight quickly if people stay in your wells and don’t focus you down, or if you pop lich at the right time, but if you get focused, you’re in trouble. You can 1v1 very well against most classes, but a well played thief, dps guard, mes or engi will wreck you every time. Key phrase there is well played.
Last gasp and sa don’t share a cooldown.
I almost never go far unless I’m very confident I won’t get zeroed. I usually head to the midfight and float between mid and home.
Lately I’m trying to practice with other classes because it’s not always the wisest choice to be playing a necro, depending on the enemy team comp. Against a lot of celes I’ll play necro, but against more dps classes I’ll usually try something else.
Repeaer getting burning?
With Dhuumfire, in fact Reaper’s Shroud will probably be the only way to make Dhuumfire a viable trait considering there will no longer be an icd and Reaper has a much faster cleaving auto attack.
Could work. Just looked at the repear traits for the first time though. Amazed how bad they are. Look at chilling force kitten . It only grants 1% life force and you have to strike a chilled foe. Which is rare to happen seen as they have to not cleanse chill and you have to land an attack. Seems stupid to me.
Same for blighters boon. The numbers are just too low I think personally.
They aren’t, check this out:
There are 5 targets on a point. A ranger, a pet and a mesmers with clones. Or an engi that used turret, whatever. Chiliblains chills 5 targets. Then mark of blood, putrid mark and reaper’s mark grant 30% life force and 15 stacks of might with those 2 traits. Did you have soul marks? Then it’s 42% life force in 2 seconds or so, assuming you took those traits. Then you can get in with reaper’s shroud and 111 them all, healing you like mad. Might for ever chilled for you hit, 139 health for each hit. Multiply by 5 for each swing. The numbers get pretty big pretty quickly.
Reaper clearly isn’t a 1v1 class but it has some potential in groups. And stronghold.
Who uses PoC or WH trait or WH itself in PvE O.o?
Everyone uses warhorn in PvE, and if you have more than 2 points in Curses you’ll have Banshee’s Wail as well.
Parasitic Contagion is already used in current PvE condition necro builds.
Parasitic Contagion isn’t used at all, especially in PvE.
I think you didn’t quite get was I was trying to say.
Reaper’s Precision is absolutely useless, there is no game mode or special situation in this game where this trait could ever be better than its alternatives.
That leaves Banshee’s Wail and Path of Corruption, which is fine for PvP but in PvE there aren’t any boons so Banshee’s Wail really is the only option left. Which means if you play PvE the Curses spec forces you to take a warhorn, which is fine for power builds but power builds don’t get any power grandmaster trait. So could you run a condi build in PvE with all those condi gm traits? No, because you don’t have a condi master trait.
Basically, the only way you could pick Curses is with a condi build in PvP.Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
Think about this: would you rather take 3k damage at once and be stunned for 1 second, or be stunned for 3 seconds and take 1k damage every second?
Clearly longer CCs are worse. So do you really think Terror would be the troublemaker in this combination of the two traits? I would even argue that doubling our fear durations with LC is terrible on its own, without adding the extra damage of Terror.
It’s actually funny how people on the one hand completely overestimate Terror’s damage (because it really isn’t much), but on the other hand forget that we’ll be able to add Dhuumfire and Deathly Chills to our fear lockdowns. And a Reaper will easily be able to apply burning + fear + chilled simultaniously, so… how are those conditions ok but the damage of Terror is too much?
I’m not sure I follow? I never said the damage of terror is too much. It would be too much if every fear was doubled in duration and still dealing terror damage, though. Assuming you had a scepter.
To me the issue with condi reaper is that anyone can pick a certain build/runes/sigils/amulet and just press 1 and still see success. Obviously other buttons will matter a lot but if you can just 1 your way to victory, it will be considered a no skill high reward class and be nerfed. Which is too bad that they landed on doubling conditions instead of giving more meaningful (bigger) condi stacks.
All that said, it’s still very hard to see any condition build being successful without nerfs to party wide condition removal.
I get blown away by how the average wait time is 2 minutes and change when I wait 6-7 minutes every queue, but this is very bad.
Condi necro is hardly viable in pvp right now, pretty much one shoutbow and one media guard and you’re countered, and they are on practically every team even made of solos.
They need something that is going to make a big difference for the class and even as it stands now, the duration isn’t going to matter much because condis are shed practically by accident.
Plus, if you could double the duration of every fear while it dealt damage it would be crazy.
I’m fine with both changes. If shoutbow isn’t toned down no one will notice LC.
I think stealth is fine. I really don’t like evade spam, though.
That’s against eotm mobs that probably have every condition in the game – including full stacks of vuln – on them, plus whatever ascended gear you might have, food, and likely close to death plus the eagle runes you mentioned.
My favorite was the air and fire sigils. Because yeah, that’s only mesmers and deserves to be singled out.
If you aren’t finished casting F2 before hitting steal, wouldn’t you lose out on the stolen bundle? Sounds like that is more of an interesting choice to make instead of an OP combo, since doing it wrong has a downside.
it was mentioned in the thief forum that they can now do a range F2 on us by using their fear bundle + their F1 steal together to blink to us for the fear to connect
meaning they don’t need to be near us anymore to activate fear
your thoughts? too OP?
Why? That wastes a 3 second fear form the most part when you daze them. It’s not the best use of resources against a necro.
Fancy trick I guess but spreading out the cc is more valuable. Now, doing it against a warrior or guardian… that’s interesting.
When you compare it with the base Necromancer they get torment, terror, dark path’s bleed, Dhuumfire and of course barbed precision. So each of them can inflict the same number of Damage conditions as the other. But the disadvantage of the Core necromancer is how slow it is on activation. It has some range advantage on reaper which will always be a factor. But its raw condition damage potential is far lower. Especially when we take dhuumfire into consideration.
Life blast is slow. I mean, really really slow. It has a 1 second cast time and an after cast delay. The life rend cycle is much quicker in comparison. at 1/2 a second cast time per strike and the last strike hitting 5 targets, it has the potential of applying 3 stacks of burning by the time life blast is ready to strike its second time. This also means that barbed precision has more chances to trigger as well, thus higher damage from that as well.
One major thing that you are I believe neglecting here: reaper shroud not only has a lot less condi application than death shroud, it is also all melee. You can neither interrupt/cc someone with fear from range in rs, nor do you have the teleport from dark path (the movement skill that replaces ist is not much better than just running with swiftness). Given how most high burst classes do their burst up close, I think what you should really ever want to do on a condi necro (or any condi class in this game) is kite. RS is really bad here.
Picking up chill damage also means losing the sustain from blighter’s boon. So the fact that condition builds have far less sustain than power builds will still remains valid. Even if one cannot know now precisely how condi reaper will compare to current terromancer, I am fairly sure that if everything will be as we know so far then it will at least be far inferior to power reaper.
Dhuumfire means it has crazy reliable AOE burn application. Chill can deal damage. It can give poison and corrupt AOE boons with path of corruption. Still has fear. RS has just as much condition application as DS did.
The sad thing about this skill is that it is power based and doesn’t hit consistently hard even with a lot of conditions in a power build. I’ve heard of someone saying they hit for over 10k with it, but when I test in pvp with a handful of skills and SoS I only ever hover around 4k, with a zerk amulet. It is OK at generating life force, OK at best at dealing damage, and has no utility. It’s not something that I’m pressing every time it’s off cooldown, but then again that has a lot to do with how conditions are cleansed now, too.
It should mean that they give necros QoL changes, but it doesn’t mean they will. Good news for my theif though.
You can be a reaper with wells.
I’m really surprised to see so many people saying they didn’t fight other players. I was constantly fighting in every match.
After playing again last night, I think we’really in the hands of the devs right now as far as stronghold goes. If they make good changes to blood magic and death magic, we might be able to heal up the door breakers and provide protection and keep them alive long enough to get through. Plus if they actually buff CPC to destroy projectiles, you could actually actively guard them with CPC and nightfall, and then use CPC in the lords room to bring down damage by 35%, and there is a real role there for support and taking on the lords room.
That’s a lot of “ifs,” though. Would be nice if it happened, but if not, it’s hard to imagine reaper having a role that a staff ele or guardian or shoutbows already fills in support, and defense/roaming wise, I think our lack of mobility hurts a lot.
It would be cool if you could spawn npcs from yyr own lord room. So like if you wipe players and they had supply, you can take it and use it immediately instead of running back to the doors and then up to the enemy gate.
I agree with all of that ^
I really enjoy the game mode but it feels like once you fall behind there is no way to come back. If you wipe the other team in your Lord room, they are all up and ready to defend your push by the time you get anything going.
If there we’re more points given or longer respawns, or both, for dying after you have 1 and 2 gates down, it might make it better. But I played games yesterday where 2 people push lord, die, 2 more come in and die, and by the time they are finished, the first 2 are back.
I also wish the Lord regenerated health and you could replace defensive npcs. Once your gates are down you can’t really leave your Lord alone, and the other team can just turtle and kill your door breakers and win by points.
Can you elaborate on how downing myself in what would be a clearly dodgeable skill solves all my necro problems?
Gets you to downed state quicker to use our OP damage :p
That actually does sort of make sense. That makes me a sad panda.
Can you elaborate on how downing myself in what would be a clearly dodgeable skill solves all my necro problems?
Besides w/e class gets the defiance bar, we will probably be one of the top classes for mist essence capping. While we will only be able to hold 3 stacks of stabil with RS #3(4 for a bit with boon duration) the fact it pulses every second makes it so its harder for boonrips to catch us unless they time their rip+follow up cc right after we gain a stack.
Stabil with high stacks is also very good, but one boonrip can take that off. So unless teams are running no boonrips specifically for stab then high stacks would win-out.
That’s a good point. I hadn’t thought of that at all.
I think that Reaper definitely has a place in stronghold, although who knows if it will fill that place well enough to be competitive. If they make DM and BM respectable trait lines you could theoretically see a defensive, supporty, debuffy type of Reaper support your own NPCs and still be dangerous to the main targets. Skills like Nightfall and Gravedigger will bring some good DPS, and maybe a Reaper can bring enough support and damage to get doorbreakers through while still scaring off enemy players.
It will be hard to tell until the game actually launches and the meta settles in. But Stronghold in general seemed much more necro friendly to me. So much life force is everywhere that it’s hard not to be better for necros.
The forum specialists interact with the devs. That is how you provide feedback. Expecting anything else is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Did you miss the 12 page thread where the pvp specialist asked for feedback?
I usually play on invis when pvping, which prevents trolly whispers, and otherwise never respond to people typing in say or map chat. I call incs and that’s about it and honestly pvp is better this way, at least while solo qing.
Some of the self applications are fairly strong if you don’t/can’t clear them. And it’s one of the only skills in the entire game that will put you in combat before a match if you activate it, preventing you from switching skills. Fun stuff.
I think if anything, you are being welcomed to continue playing core necro if you want to, that’s why Reaper Shroud only comes in with the elite line. Reaper shroud is revamping the class and the implementation means you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to.
Pretty sure multiple class mechanics are effected by chill, including necromancers, and I believe thieves (steal, not initiative), warriors, guardians, mesmers and engineers.
If damage revealed stealth characters I’d be fine with it.
They should just bake the + damage from the axe trait in at base then change the trait to increase axe range to 900 or even 1200.
Then the axe would be nice.
That seems like a good idea to me, but I think if you made it improve range and cooldowns like the focus trait that it could work.
I still run terrormancer in WvW roaming from time to time, and in there it’s not as reliable as it used to be. As others said it takes a while for us to ramp up the damage, and most of the time the enemy will either cleanse or just run and reset because terrormancer only has ds2 to gap close, and that thing is not reliable at all unless used within 600 range.
The other thing is I run this build in PVE and can usually make my conditions hit pretty hard. Sure it’s not zerker damage but I can still kill most bosses pretty quickly. But that’s running BiP, CPC and Epidemic. So no stunbreaker a which is just not viable at all in any way shape of form in PvP.
That is sad to hear because wvw condi necro is still in much better shape than pvp condi necro.
Know what I think this game needs?
Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.
A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.
Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.
We need a condition that negates boon effect.
Or just revert the nerfs to corrupt boon.
1 skill to save us all is not the best design, an actual condition specifically that condition is more manageable and helpful I am not sure who thought resistance was a good idea right now.
Well I agree that 1 skill to rely on isn’t the best design, but I also don’t think that adding another condition is a good idea. More conditions will probably mean more condition removal, which could end up biting us again. I think more boon corruption is a better path.
Know what I think this game needs?
Something WoW and other games have done for a long time to help balance DoT classes.
A condition that, when cleansed, deals a spike of damage and is high on the cleanse priority. Hell, I’d make it a grandmaster trait for necros, just cause I think that it fits our ‘role’ as a condi class, in that we’re better at controlling them than we are at actually applying them.
Make it effect the cleanser, not necessarily the person the condi was on. Be able to apply it in an AoE. That way, big AoE-cleanse spammers might take massive damage spikes if they mindlessly press buttons. Meanwhile, classes that don’t use a whole lot of cleanse, and do so judiciously, take a much more comfortable amount and aren’t as put out by it.
We need a condition that negates boon effect.
Or just revert the nerfs to corrupt boon.
Why is anyone trying to defend the downstate dmg? The nerf is coming eventually, so even Anet thinks its too powerful.
It happened due to bug fixes not buffs lol not defending but we would trade it for proper in combat performance and no we are not so happy with the core specializations and our design,DS’s,our weapons’. Yes the nerf is coming we just want what we deserve and need,again bug fixes lmao meaning it should have been like that since the start.
It’s only a nerf to people who are taking the trait in it’s current state. Every other spite necro will be getting a 33% buff because it’s in a minor trait.
I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.
I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.
Edit: A word
Lich at 1200 range may as well be shooting balloons with how easy it is to sidestep the projectile. And life blast does significantly less damage beyond 600 range. You should learn more about the class before you complain about it. Both of these things are only effective at mid to close range.
Would you like to try another angle to display power necro imbalance?
The first point doesn’t have anything with my point on necro balance, and i retain my position in regard to your second- different strokes for different folks then. Don’t assume because i have an issue with something that it is from a lack of understanding.
I am not going to die on a hill talking about necro imbalance or otherwise. To me, the risk vs the reward is lopsided- how is this fixed? By the countless ways to counter their abilities.
Like i said i think it is a problem with risk vs reward- you can feel differently because necros you encounter have their own host of problems. Some people feel differently.
Edit: Consider this dismissal as i don’t believe you intend to argue is good faith, just as most people who concern themselves with trying to bait out talking points don’t.
People making claims need to support it with evidence. Earlier, you made the claim that necro is imbalanced, and this post here is you saying it’s just because you “feel” it’s off, and then ironically say I don’t want to argue in good faith. If you had a point, you would prove it. I’m still waiting.
I won’t make a convincing argument for the imbalance of power necro. I don’t think it as broken as most people do, though i do think the damage its lich form 1 and death shroud 1 are able to do at 1200 range is high- how imbalanced it is is up for debate, since there are specific and clear counters for both of those things, and we can argue until we are blue in the face about different team comps and roles in that.
I do want to comment on the second bit though. Just because one class doesn’t change does not mean that others do not- and those changes can cause imbalances for classes that do not receive changes.
Edit: A word
Lich at 1200 range may as well be shooting balloons with how easy it is to sidestep the projectile. And life blast does significantly less damage beyond 600 range. You should learn more about the class before you complain about it. Both of these things are only effective at mid to close range.
Would you like to try another angle to display power necro imbalance?
Its being nerfed when the new specialization changes hit live, we’ve known that since they showed off the preview.
that’s what, half a year away? year? maybe more. They should srsly start fixing bs with higher frequency then once every half year.
Yday I had 1v1 downed state as ele vs necro. Necro got down first, before I went down he ate ligtnining strike, sigil flame strike, few auto attacks and arcane shield explosion… I still lost that 1v1
Some classes have more advantages in down-state, that’s class design. I think downstate specialty fits Necro quite well. People shouldn’t think they win the fight when put people to down state. In a team fight, down state means nothing because there’re plenty of ways for people to rev the teammates, and it’s totally intended.
Also class balance shouldn’t be considered v.s. each downstate. For example, if both you and warrior go down, you’d lost the fight because he’ll eventually stand up for awhile. When you down together with a ranger, ranger will eventually win because of pet rev. However, for thieves, mesmers, and ele, even though you can’t save yourself and win the down-state fight, your skills allow you to stall time until your teammates are able to help you. That’s entirely how balance works. And for engi… Yeah their down skills kinda suck, but at least they’re strong when they’re not down lol…
Please stop talking.
Everyone knows that downstate skills are not balanced at all and they should be. Rangers interrupting you several times and before you can actually atempt to stomp, they will be getting ressed. Necro who can one shot thief, zerker ele etc. from a downstate. ‘’Totally Intended’’ Yeah, right.
’’That’s how balance works.’’ Well, glad you are not on the balance team.
QQ about necros and Rangers. Classic.
Wondering people do not like specs that take little skill and revolve around pressing one button. Classic.
If they take such little skill, then use some of your own and deal with the down state. It isn’t difficult. You’re a superior ele player, right? Much better than those necro and ranger players. You can do it. I believe in you.
Again, this goes back around to where other threads like this have gone if you don’t like the downed state, spinal shivers, or whatever, then you should advocate for builds that don’t require them or replace them effectively instead of whining about downed states of classes that aren’t viable.
i never understand this.
If a superior player playing a balanced, more technical build plays an inferior player that is using a low-skill, low-risk, high reward build then the win is not guaranteed for the player of superior skill.
All of these people who chant “well if necro 1 spam or ranger lb spam is so easy then you should be able to beat them no problem right??? or do you just suck, huehuehue” can’t seem to understand that the problem is that players who make bad choices, who are not good at their class, who use these unbalanced skills are able to kill people they otherwise wouldn’t stand a chance against.
Poorly balanced builds do well because they are poorly balanced, not because everyone somehow magically sucks against them. Furthermore in a game mode where team fights eclipse dueling scenarios, you cannot possibly anticipate or counter everything that comes from range or that out of your field of vision. Necros and rangers benefit greatly from having high burst range damage- something that if it is spammable is very hard to counter consistently if fights are even or lopsided.
This is why people complain about them.
Back to playing a kitten optimized meta instead of trying to break out in non-meta more satisfying builds.
Prove necro is imbalanced. I’ll wait.
This should be good.
Oh and just before you post, power necro has been unchanged for well over a year.
(edited by Roe.3679)
That isn’t 66% additional reduction in DS, its 33% additional for a total of 66%. There is no way they’d give 99% reduction.
I feel like 99% is impossible for the simple fact that they might as well say immune. There’s no point in 1% duration.
It’s obviously 66% in RS, 33% out of it.
People are really underestimating how much can be done with 4 seconds when you have multiple abilities that deal backstab level of damage in an AoE.
I think that shout looks really good except for the cast time. I would probably take it over well of corruption.
For pvp this trait is literally the best tier 1 major trait reaper has.
That just means the tier 1 traits suck.
Dogged March gives you similar immunity to the same conditions, without death shroud restrictions, and gives the warrior regeneration.
I would rather lose a third of those condition durations than get 3 seconds of measly regen. That prevention of lock down is worth more than the 500 health or so that the regen gives you. It is a strong trait.
Reaper won’t solve absolutely everything but it will be a big positive change.
I’m more concerned with what other classes get than ourselves, the changes won’t mean much if everyone else is stronger, too. But I’m excited and looking forward.forward to HoT.
The mere existence of reaper’s precision in its present form makes me think that all of these traits traits aren’t finished yet.
I stopped playing terrormancer when shoutbows became popular. A lot of ele and engi players seem to have gone to shoutbow, which means that with less engis, there is also less reason to bring terrormancer. A good condi necro could kill eles or engis, but with shoutbow it’s hard to justify any condi class.
@Roe – you can’t compare a weapon of dps to a weapon of condi… so rating on them would be down to what they do not what they are in comparison
I didn’t make the comparison.