“Necros might be competitive pls nerf”
You could also replace soul reaping for taking Spite/Curses/Blood Magic (power signet)
I was using that earlier and I really like it but it’s too weak against mesmers, IMO. I think the ranged damage DP gives is too valuable right now.
I found I have to take curses at the moment just because of the sending, condi transfers seem to be the best option in all necro builds with a the burning going around.
I agree, plus that much weakness is just so good. DM can probably give respectable toughness and a damage boost in DS but I think the weakness would likely prevent as much damage for you to make up for the stats you don’t get from going into DM, plus that weakness helps your team, too. Blood makes sense but it’s mostly all just cooldown reductions and not much utility.
edit – I think I answered my own question here, but I’m still wondering what others are doing.
(edited by Roe.3679)
After an interesting foray into a cele necro (I think it worked) I decided to spec into power because I keep hearing that power necro has been so strong, even though almsot every necro I see is running some weird build like I was.
Spite is obviously an amazing choice, and soul reaping is as good as ever. But which 3rd line do you take?
Curses has some condi clears, fury on DS, PoC or MoC, and huge weakness uptime.
Death Magic has shrouded removal or putrid defense, tons of toughness, protection, and bonus passive power.
Blood magic can take a boatload of cooldown reductions and some siphons, but the minors are not impressive.
I can see the advantages from each one – for now I am in curses, but I’m not sure which 3rd line will have the highest payout. What is everyone else going with?
If they just made it long conditions that could be dealt with or removed, it would be a lot better.
I am am having the same problem as Kaseus. I was also in a match and booted when the new build rolled out, and have been unable to join a PvP game ever since. I sat and waited to see just how high the que would go (2 hours) and it just keeps going.
I had this same experience too. I waited in both queues for over 15 minutes. After awhile I had walked away just to see how high it would go, but I never got a queue pop in over 33 minutes of waiting.
I wonder if any other new traits aren’t working correctly.
I’ve been playing around with this cele build that has a boatload of boon corruption which is the most enjoyable thing for me in all of GW2 pvp:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-3_-3-0-o2WF004oI-K0;9;4679;0136146247;4U-H4U;1H7W3H7W30j
The condis can hit pretty hard, and can stack up really quickly especially with the transfers. Once you get someone to 50% health it’s usually game over for them, because they can’t hit you with condis or you tranfer them, and they can’t hit you with direct damage because of weakness, and you are just piling on might stacks.
It’s really really powerful in small group melee range fights, but I’m having issues really judging it because I keep playing pre-mades. I did at one point down a condi ranger, then one of my pvp buddies came along (on the ranger’s team) and ressed him, then I actually downed the ranger again and had my friend down to 10% health before I finally went down, too.
It’s weak to being out of position against range, but it so so strong otherwise.
What about leech proc from vampirism rune or leeching sigil ?
Oh, I don’t think those work.
RIght now all siphons work in DS including SoV active, except lesser SoV from the Blood Bond appears to be bugged and isn’t working right now.
I’m pretty sure the way it’s worded is that it casts “Enfeeble” and not “Enfeebling blood” which is the same skill, but a different cooldown.
He mentioned later in that thread that they don’t plan to make big changes to conditions. Which is good for us, finally manipulating conditions is a real powerful aspect of the class.
Enjoying he patch so far. It seems to be rewarding high risk play and punishing bad players/builds.
Can you post a screenshot? Just how putrid is this defense…
This is an unfortunate bug.
Very.
rest in piece, terrormancer
first arenanet could not balance you
then arenanet could not even code you
Its just a bug, let’s not get crazy.
Bhawb you should stream more, that was fun to watch.
This is an unfortunate bug.
Just tested this, it definitely isn’t working through DS.
I’d love to see a video of this or something.
Only CC change is bothering me so far.
I’ve embraced the signets. SoV is actually pretty cool if you nail someone in a bad position in a team fight, the extra damage seems to really make a difference.
I’m not over how strong the Spite tree is; every trait feels really strong.
As much as I was unhappy about CC and plague form, I’ve been watching some streams, looking over traits, and I came up with a build that a month ago I would have absolutely laughed at. It’s fun, it’s different, and it feels powerful even in the face of meta (formerly meta?) classes. I even get to feel like I can learn more about my own class, because now signets are a thing that never could have happened before today, and all these changes combined equals a playstyle I have strived for for 3 years but never fully reached.
So far I’m really happy with this patch and enjoying myself, and I wanted to share in case anyone else is having fun with it, too. There has been a lot of negativity but I think there are a lot of positive things to discuss, too.
Looking forward to starting a new build in a new meta.
This is hardly passive play. The only way it’s passive is with plague sending. The rest is active play with Spite and Plague signets with Corrupt Boon.
Were they really using SoV as well? I still can’t imagine using that even over the racial heal or that PvE heal that came out :/
Well, traited SoV has a shorter cooldown than CC now. Plus the active heals got buffed by 20% with bloodthirst made baseline. It’s weak to poison, but otherwise it does deal some damage, give might, and corrupt boons. I don’t think it’s black and white like it used to be.
I don’t think it would. I think it would be everyone waiting for the other 2 teams to start fighting so they can gank the winner. That happens in WvW too – just a big standoff until someone gets impatient.
Does the signet proc from Plague Sending also act as a stunbreak by the way? Chaith seems to think it does but he’s not the one playing it so it might be hard to tell, and Nos didn’t say anything about it.
yep and it also gives you mights and corrupts boons with signet of suffering.
Well, it requires you to crit the target, so either there are lag issues or he isn’t breaking stuns with it since he can not crit while stunned.
This. It will stunbreaker but you would need to land an attack after you were stunned. Possible, but not likely.
@Henry: agreed on that, I was hoping the same, especially after I believe Grouch had said that a nerf of ~10% was likely. I guess that decision got changed somewhere along the road.
That is kind of my point though. I don’t think it was changed along the road. I think they just thought about it in a narrow minded kind of way. So I am hoping the balance patch after this one = we get the cele nerf. As said here:
The amulets will be rebalanced to compensate for the loss of stats originally gained from trait lines.
This is probably as good of a place as any to mention that we’ll also be using this opportunity to rebalance PvP’s celestial amulet to be slightly less effective. We’re probably looking at a 10%~ decrease in overall stats, but this number can change as we draw closer to releasing the core specialization changes.
This is an interesting point, I don’t see a 10% decrease anywhere.
They didn’t do it because Celestial can’t hit 200% crit damage and can’t hit the Condi dmg break point, and lost boon/condi durations. Those builds in general are just losing potency. They probably just simply realized it wasn’t necessary to maintain balance anymore, which is the goal here.
Almost every build lost boon/condi durations. Some of the things that are toned down for cele are toned down for everyone.
@Henry: agreed on that, I was hoping the same, especially after I believe Grouch had said that a nerf of ~10% was likely. I guess that decision got changed somewhere along the road.
That is kind of my point though. I don’t think it was changed along the road. I think they just thought about it in a narrow minded kind of way. So I am hoping the balance patch after this one = we get the cele nerf. As said here:
The amulets will be rebalanced to compensate for the loss of stats originally gained from trait lines.
This is probably as good of a place as any to mention that we’ll also be using this opportunity to rebalance PvP’s celestial amulet to be slightly less effective. We’re probably looking at a 10%~ decrease in overall stats, but this number can change as we draw closer to releasing the core specialization changes.
This is an interesting point, I don’t see a 10% decrease anywhere.
I won’t be taking them at all unless somehow this comes up as being an amazing set of traits. I’m fairly certain these values will be affected by poison, so I some think this will really be a game changer unless you can really coordinate rezzing.
If you’re going to take that stance, they buffed everything else too.
Celestial needs to be toned down, for sure, but outright gutting it isn’t a good answer either, IMO.
The plague change is definitely the one that I’m most unhappy with. Everything else I like or can see the point, but the plague change makes me shake my head,
The “testing” part of my post was probably the least important aspect of it.
Nerfing cele wasn’t working because they didn’t kittening nerf cele, they wouldn’t admit that there are professions that make perfect use of cele, and as such the fact that cele gets a massive amount of free stats just because they are spread out is too much. But no, instead they barely touched might stacking in a way that didn’t really mean anything, and acted like it would be enough.
I mean that nerfing cele wasn’t working in testing so instead they took the whole patch a different direction. They said that they are nerfing the cele amulet by 10%, though, so yes, they are nerfing cele.
I also want to add here, since it seems as good of a place as any, that we likely aren’t in as bad of a spot as people are assuming, at least from a pvp perspective.
If cele builds are brought down because the amulet is nerfed, that’s a big win for any class that isn’t warr-engi-ele. Then looking at other skills, stuff like combustive shot and incendiary powder seem to only apply 1 stack of burning. Vigor was nerfed hard, which is great for necromancers, and bad for literally everyone else. I know stats are supposed to be reclaimed via gear, but I don’t think all the stats will be recovered by every class, although condi necro is actually OK in that regard. Oh and at least for now, we can sacrifice minions at the start of a match again which is a necro buff, intentional or not.
With thief and mesmer being buffed, which initalliy sounds bad, that works towards the favor of their counters, which are condi classes. Burst classes being made more viable will push out cele builds even more, which re-opens the door to condi classes as the burst counter.
Not only will low removal hurt those classes against a condi necro, but necros will be stronger against conditions than ever. Engis look strong but condi necros do well against them, too, so that doesn’t bother me a whole lot.
I think what may have happened with this patch (think and may being operative words here) is that nerfing cele builds wasn’t working because it made those specs useless, so they buffed other classes instead.
Either way, we’ll see.
I don’t even care at this point.
This. The only people still around are the ones that developed nerf-invulnerability.
Well sort of yeah, but I mean that if the game didnt change soon I’m likely to stop logging in because the balance patches are so infrequent and it’s feeling stale.
Necro or bust.
Even if this patch does end up being bad for necros, which remains to be seen, I don’t even care at this point. The meta needs a change. Badly. It’s been rather static for over a year.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
No, they are getting responses cause it is kittening warrior, and not Necromancer. Seriously, they even went the extra mile gathering feed-back on changing tomes on Guardians when DH was revealed, but did WE get any chance to say anything about the CC and Plagueform changes, or were even warned it advance? No, of course we weren’t, cause the 99% of the devs can’T be assed to even think about the fact that Necros exist.
You’re comparing the specialization reveal with these trait changes. Did you miss all of the threads from The Gates Assassin? They clearly took suggestions.
dude, no. re-read what he wrote.
I read it, it’s just the usual mmo forum “no one loves my class” diatribe that exists in every profession forum on this site and has existed on every class forum of every mmo ever.
Seriously, read it again. Hint: there was no time frame for feedback to what they did with CC and such. But it’s okay because we have time before HoT. It’s not like the preview of our changes one week before release, is it ?
Seriously, I don’t need to read it again. Hint: I’m pretty happy with the changes. I’m excited to play the build I have in mind.
Most of the QQers are some combination of 1. Not even attempting to take the changes in context, 2. Totally ignoring the super strong traits we received, along with how Reaper will change this, and/or 3. Only focused on the negative things about our changes while citing positive things about other professions.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
No, they are getting responses cause it is kittening warrior, and not Necromancer. Seriously, they even went the extra mile gathering feed-back on changing tomes on Guardians when DH was revealed, but did WE get any chance to say anything about the CC and Plagueform changes, or were even warned it advance? No, of course we weren’t, cause the 99% of the devs can’T be assed to even think about the fact that Necros exist.
You’re comparing the specialization reveal with these trait changes. Did you miss all of the threads from The Gates Assassin? They clearly took suggestions.
dude, no. re-read what he wrote.
I read it, it’s just the usual mmo forum “no one loves my class” diatribe that exists in every profession forum on this site and has existed on every class forum of every mmo ever.
No, you didn’t read, as your answer was completely off my point. I did NOT compare Specialization with traits. I said DURING the Dragonhunter reveal, they MENTIONED changing tomes to other skilltypes on the base guardian and made thread to ask for FEEDBACK on said changes. Did we get a thread asking us about feedback on changing CC and Plague to corruption prior to the second trait-reveal? No, we did not. Do we have a Red-thread asking out opinion about it now? No, we still have not. Have we at least a Red-post adressing the concerns? No, we freaking HAVE NOT. While we had a few redposts about such a trivial, unnecessary thing as the rage about the Dragonhunter NAME, kitten .
And, unlike those “usual mmoforum posts”, I’m looking at the facts. Currently, no matter what role you want in PvP (Bunker, Power, Condition, Mixed, Support, you name it), there is ALWAYS another profession that does it better. If you know of a build wanted in PvP that isn’t fullfilled better by another class, tell me.
They completely reworked tomes into different skills, last I saw Lich was still Lich, plague was still plague, as they should be because they are strong elites. Those were not reworks. Again, it’s apples and oranges.
And your casual use of ALL CAPS only proves my point that it was, in fact, a diatribe.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
No, they are getting responses cause it is kittening warrior, and not Necromancer. Seriously, they even went the extra mile gathering feed-back on changing tomes on Guardians when DH was revealed, but did WE get any chance to say anything about the CC and Plagueform changes, or were even warned it advance? No, of course we weren’t, cause the 99% of the devs can’T be assed to even think about the fact that Necros exist.
You’re comparing the specialization reveal with these trait changes. Did you miss all of the threads from The Gates Assassin? They clearly took suggestions.
dude, no. re-read what he wrote.
I read it, it’s just the usual mmo forum “no one loves my class” diatribe that exists in every profession forum on this site and has existed on every class forum of every mmo ever.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
No, they are getting responses cause it is kittening warrior, and not Necromancer. Seriously, they even went the extra mile gathering feed-back on changing tomes on Guardians when DH was revealed, but did WE get any chance to say anything about the CC and Plagueform changes, or were even warned it advance? No, of course we weren’t, cause the 99% of the devs can’T be assed to even think about the fact that Necros exist.
You’re comparing the specialization reveal with these trait changes. Did you miss all of the threads from The Gates Assassin? They clearly took suggestions.
It sort of already works that way. Since ranged attacks need targets, you can only really hit them with melee, and any auto attack chain will continue through it’s chain if you’re actually connecting. Plus sometimes skills can sort of alert you. Necro axe will give retal if you hit someone in stealth, and warriors can gain adrenaline, just as examples.
It’s not a bad suggestion, but I think a better one is counting unsuccessful attacks towards revealing. It’s dumb that I can backstab aegis off of someone just to backstab them again.
That said, it’s just replacing the toughness you would have lost already. It’s not awful but I doubt it will compare to other trait lines, and death magic just has too many weak spots to be worth specifically into, IMO. The master minor and master slots are weak.
That isn’t really true. All stat-giving things are being buffed to compensate for the stat loss. This will be additional on top of that stat, plus the 20% condition damage reduction. It is a really significant damage reduction, especially to conditions, and it will be extremely easy to maintain.
Also Corruption will most likely be one stack per attack, 10s ICD. Meaning your minions effectively don’t have any “loss” to themselves for taking conditions from you, as they push them off at least just as fast, and that doesn’t include the fact that MMs can now build for significantly better support of their minions via Blood Magic, plus the protection.
Are you sure about that? As far as I understand it, if the stats are all going up, a flat value like this is a smaller percentage of the equation, and therefore actually less valuable.
My main point is that, right now, you shouldn’t choose traits based on stats, and that’s essentially what this trait is. Plus, the whole trait line needs to be considered and those master level traits in DM are not attractive.
I think if the stacks on this skill could go higher it would be a different story. That way it would be pretty hard to reach high levels in 1v1, but would scale in bigger fights. But for now the numbers are too small to be a really great trait.
I posted this somewhere else, but it’s one stack of burning, and most eles don’t run crit heavy builds. Compared to Dhuumfire which was clearly balanced for Reaper Shroud, which can stack burning in an AOE, every hit.
It’s not even close.
Yeah, the two don’t really compare, however technically even with reapers shroud, it does fall quite a bit short of Scepter auto attack when traited. Hence why is be thrilled if either it got 1 more second or 1.5-2 seconds per hit on Shroud 4 so it could be used in sort of a burst phase. Would be cool. Plus then all shroud skills would be valuable as a condition user.
Well I think a condi user could still use it, I mean it also grants more life force and can deal some damage if you’re waiting out your heal or something. FitG is probably still stronger., though.
I’m not even sure that Reaper is that strong of a choice for condi necros at this point. Chill dealing damage is cool but I don’t know how much it’s really worth.
I posted this somewhere else, but it’s one stack of burning, and most eles don’t run crit heavy builds. Compared to Dhuumfire which was clearly balanced for Reaper Shroud, which can stack burning in an AOE, every hit.
It’s not even close.
I don’t think there’s a whole lot of value in any signet other than plague because it’s such a short cooldown stunbreaker. Spite I could see if you’re ok with only one stunbreaker.
Do the devs realize that the stupid nerf to cc keeps us in combat? Didn’t Gee specifically say they took away the poison cloud from the curses minor that reduces fall damage because it puts us in combat? Now our heal not only puts us in combat, while every other class has four seconds to get away and reset the fight where we will still be in combat, but it makes us more susceptible to being bursted. I mean mesmers can just wait for us to cast it and then unload and watch us drop in one rotation, let alone thieves. Necro in PVP is done! Too many nerfs, when our class was not even close to competitive. I just don’t get it. Last tournaments proved that Necro was not viable, except for on outlier in a pvp team that has long played together. Eu does not run necros and hasn’t for a long time because they simply are not viable. Nothing has changes, if anything what we did bring to pvp has been weakened.
Yeah, it doesn’t put you in combat.
Tim, you can’t take mark of evasion and the skill that procs lesser signet of vampirism, they are in the same slot.
It is worth noting that the reduced condi damage should synergize nicely with the corruptions. Just look at plague, those bleeds aren’t as bad with this trait.
I don’t think it’s worth taking over other traits but I don’t think it’s bad.