Guild Wars 2

Oxygen.5918:

Learn how to dodge and berserker gear is by far the best in terms of damage output. Which is what you want as a thief. You don’t need other stats to bring utility to a group. Hitting harder than any other class is your utility (outside shadow refuge and scorpion wire).

That´s true of course, but some situations (and there is quite a lot of them) requires some survivability, which is hardly met with 10800 HP and basic toughness (f.e. CoF path 2 NPC defending part), and in some of the encounters, there´s just dmg you can´t avoid (or you will need to have much more than two dodges to avoid completely), so some survivability is very recommended in dungeons generally.
Also some servers are quite laggy often, and that completely destroys your ability to time the dodge/evade right and with GC build, you´re going to get yourself killed very fast in these situations…

The only problem with those issues mentioned here is the rendering bug. Mesmer portal is a very strong tactical tool if used correctly, indeed, but why take it away from them? Every server is able to have Mesmers on their side, so what???
WvW is not intended to work non zerg basis, there should be also defenders in the keeps/castles etc. which is encouraged by portals, so imho good for the game. Running zerg? Be ready to be outsmarted by mesmer you didn´t found because you´re in a hurry to another keep, simple….
I play a Thief (don´t even have a Mesmer) and the rendering bug bothers me the same as everyone else, trust me… When a group of 20 enemies suddenly pops in front of you, because you are fast moving class, that´s nothing you would like to experience. I understand that the so called “combat perma-stealth” is a big problem, I just have no power to change it, my class mechanic is stealth and I can´t change it. I hope it will be fixed soon, before the ppl cry a hole into Thief and Mesmer classes because of this issue…

Legitsu.3918:

If you’re only level 13 then I’d suggest traiting up towards power/attack. It makes it so much easier to quickly and efficiently kill your mobs. I leveled up to about 60 with condition build and it was a pain. I leveled the last 20 with crit build and it was much better. Maybe it was jut for me? Why not try it out? But it’s kinda hard since you’re so low on level and trait points….

I think that you misunderstood the OP, he was saying: “Right now I’m sitting at 13, 155 health”, he used comma as the game does, to divide the thousands from the rest of the number So he has 13155Hp and is pretty much surely lvl 80

Stiv.1820:

2x agony sigils do stack. I have exactly 75% bleed duration with my setup which includes 2x 10% agony sigils and I get 7 ticks on vital shot with no food.

Great, thanks for clarification then However, I still don´t know if this applies for the +5 damage sigils also.

Kallist.5917:

Bloodgruve.6038:

Condition damage and Vitality are always nice as Power, Precision and Crit Dmg do not effect conditions.

I’m not sure I understand you. Are you saying Power doesnt effect Condition’s?
I was under the impression that they effect the damage ticks things like Bleeding do.

Power indeed doesn´t affect condition ticks, condition dmg stat does that.
Power affects only direct dmg attacks.

I have an easy solution for you, if you don´t find playing the Thief fun, choose another class, very simple
I´m glad that Thief is not like WoW Rogue, I was playing Rogue back in the old days when WoW was actually a good game, and got sick of the 3 – button rotation in PvE/stupid stunlocking in PvP very quickly. Also I´m glad that Thief don´t have weapon sets like dual swords (It´s the weapon set for totally different class, not for Thief/Rogue, same with the axes or maces. These classes are just not light warriors, they´re cunning, agile and stealthy killers, the class with those wepon sets is more like Blademaster/Duelist etc…).

Thief is definitely fun for me, otherwise I wouldn´t play it (makes sense, right?).
I´m running a 10/30/30 backstab build in PvE/WvW now, with Valkyrie equip. This build is actually not as survivable as the condition dmg one (D/D, death blossom/caltrops spam build), but it is much more fun to me (bigger challenge in melee range, not so stereotypish – lot of movement, positioning and timing, unlike the other build which was basically spamming, spamming, spamming to get a lot of evades and lower dmg because of conditions bad design).
In WvW, the performance is great, especially on single targets (D/D) or making pressure on defenders/attackers on siege (short bow). I´m not nearly as glassy as the standard GC build (I have around 18k HP and raised toughness from the Shadow arts), but still performing pretty high in the terms of dmg and of course the Thief has nice mobility.

OdinBudd.5298:

I was able to quickly figure out that the sigils that give a bonus per kill indeed do not stack. The % bonus sigils however, I have been running because I thought they DID stack. How can I test this to find out? If I am wasting a sigil to try and get 10% + 10% bleed duration, I kinda need to know so I can switch one out! Thanks in advance for any info on this!

You can test it in PvP, get a steady weapons, attach sigils and test on dummies. Also I think that when beta was running, someone from the Devs stated that two +5% damage sigils do not stack, so my idea comes from this statement.

Okamakiri.8746:

No, it’s not like that at all. To use your analogy, it’s like kicking a player because his arm got chopped off and now he can only throw darts with his weaker arm.

Chopping off an arm would equal to deletion of all Thieves skills except autoattack, believe me
It´s not the “weaker” arm, it´s more like if you´ve never thrown a single dart.

The nerf can be reverted/adjusted (bad days/performance issues can be overcame), but you can´t get back an arm which was chopped off :-)

Blademaster is nice idea, but Thief class is not nearly close to it… Better be a new class with new mechanics imho.

Bloodgruve.6038:

Condition damage and Vitality are always nice as Power, Precision and Crit Dmg do not effect conditions. Keep in mind that only 1 ‘per kill’ rune will trigger and stack, meaning that 2x agony won’t do you any good. This goes for any rune with stacks, Agony + Blood is a waste because you will get either Condtion or Power stacks but not both.

Agony sigil is for bleeding duration, not for condition dmg stacks. However i think that two runes with percentage bonuses also don´t stack….

Azure.8670:

a thief losing to a warrior is just terrible. Literally, walk up to them because they have nothing that can one shot you even at glass cannon (which I roll on my thief) Cloak and dagger them and proceed to do whatever you want. either let them waste their evades and use shadow refuge to wait or burst them down with d/d, s/d (which I prefer even with nerf) or s/p. You can even take it a step further and invis, use trip wire on top of them, haste and use 2 pistol whips then cloak then backstab. If they are using a greatsword its almost an instant win because you should know their attacks. Everything is to get you cornered/knocked down for 100b. if they knock you down and they actually try to use that, shadow step behind them and destroy. with your trait set up you should heal for full life prob every time u use shadow and half when u go invis (didnt look at ur traits number selection, but at a brief glimpse it seems thats the route you took). Warrior is a beast but against Thief and Ele he has a serious problem currently. Thief has a lot more problems against Guards and Mesmers

I´m afraid that the OP speaks about PvE, so you had kinda missed with this reply….

blaznee.5781:

I ran into a very well geared D/D thief tonight. He didn’t kill me but came really close. I got my heal off and would have fought him but it was a small zerg vs zerg moment. The damage

[IMG]http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff27/listicdaoc/gw001.jpg[/IMG]

I run a full exotic carrion armor/weapons/jewelry and 30 points into shadow arts. Its moments like those I’m glad I chose to play P/D condition/vitality.

I’m not calling for a nerf because if they screw up at all I win 99% of the time, but I look at the damage and see why >80s with crap gear whine about it.

Exactly what I´m talking about
Btw I´m running Backstab build, but with Valkyrie equip and 30 shadow arts, just for this reason, not to be food for those Glass cannons and still have some punch

sorrow.2364:

STRanger.5120:

I have no other option than agree with that, P/P is really probably the weakest weapon set available for Thief. If you use it for finishing low HP enemies, a simple backstab would do wonders for you
Maybe it´s now usable against mesmers, as another topic says, but that´s all I suppose…

You would be right if Dancing Daggers wasn’t nerfed.
Actually, Unload can deal pretty decent damage and can be cast 2 times in a row AND is ranged, which is a really good parameter.
Shortbow hasn’t the same dps as P/P has, so it isn’t a good weapon choice to finish off targets.

I run S/D + P/P with 0/30/30/10/0 traits and berserker gear in s/tPvP. I usually S/D to pressure the enemy with substained damage and dazes, and switch to P/P to kite the enemy, interrupting their combo opener or high damage skills, and using Unload to finish them off. Actually, Unload is better than many other channeled skills, like the Necromancers’ one (Ghastly Claws or Life Siphon). It deals 808 damage on a bit less than two seconds casting time, which is really good considering its range and the fact that you can use it 2 or 3 times in a row, plus the damage is pumped up thanks to the bunch of damage boosters thief has in its traitlines.

Well, it fits maybe your build/playstyle, but generally the SB is far better ranged option because of it´s utility. A lot of ppl doesn´t run S/D, so they don´t need ranged burst, that´s the place for SB.
It´s really the matter of preference/playstyle, but P/P is really not used as much as the SB, for a reason

Zawaka.5170:

Yeah I didn’t run back stab cause its not viable in competitive play and then they nerfed my dancing daggers to garbage. My team just kicked me they said if i cant play guardian then they will find some one else…

You have really dumb ppl in the team, right?
I play darts in RL competitively, and it´s like if we kick our player because he had a bad day and performance once… You should find a team with a normal people and forget about those nut-cases….

Basically, it works great against slow-attacking enemies, but you will really feel the pain against the fast- attacking ones and especially against those with multiple-attacks (rapid firing (f.e. hylek shamans), rapid slashing (attacks similar to PW or the underwater spear block/counterattack ability) etc.

ZLE.8293:

sorrow.2364:

P/P is a great support set, great to finish off targets on low health with Unload, but it is also quite good thanks to its utility.

You have the rare talent to present some complete garbage as a valuable thing.
Did you try a carrier as a salesman of used cars or something?

I have no other option than agree with that, P/P is really probably the weakest weapon set available for Thief. If you use it for finishing low HP enemies, a simple backstab would do wonders for you
Maybe it´s now usable against mesmers, as another topic says, but that´s all I suppose…

I can kill ppl in a second or two too, IN WvW And you know why? Because the ppl there are literally dumb…
Tell me which person with a functioning brain would roam in WvW undergeared and maybe underleveled? Only those who I mentioned in the first sentence of this post.

Good player will deal with you, unless you are much much better player than he is, end of story. Works as intended, stealth classes burst builds was always meant to strike down weak characters, it´s basically a counter-class to Glass cannons. When the ppl finally start to understand this for god´s sake???
It´s the same situation as the survival builds are counter to burst GC Thieves…

Suralin.3947:

I would like to see your build, sir. :-p

The death blossom uses up initiative rather quickly. You can get a maximum of 3 off before you have to wait until you can get more initiative. It’s definitely great for multiple targets, but not so much for consistent damage, imo. I guess in PvE it’s fine except when you’re up against a Champion. I find that P/D C&D/Sneak attack offers greater survivability in comparison to a D/D thief and condition build. Besides, more stacks means they bleed out faster, but if they have a lot of health, you may want to trade burst bleeding for consistent bleeding.

Yes, the initiative consume is kinda big, but I didn´t have any problem with regenerating it back while aplying bleeds with caltrops and dodge caltrops, it´s like you were switching two phases – Blossom spam and caltrops spam
Write me a PM, I can share the build if you want. Now I´m leaving work so don´t have time to create the link, but I don´t have any problem with it later

rogerwilko.6895:

thank you.
Seams that traveler set indeed has MF in the place of Vit. I will first try with a couple of pieces. My HP with Carrion is 18k, I will see if I make it with less.

Yes, the loss of vitality is inevitable, but with so much evading, I hope it won´t be much of a problem, but you should try for yourself, just to see if it “fits” ;-)

Suralin.3947:

Well, the strafing works with any ranged. I wasn’t saying that it works only in P/D. :p In P/D I have the added benefit of stacking bleeds with my auto. Death blossom does evade, which is a good skill as I used it a lot as a D/D condition thief, but for the initiative and amount of bleeds it stacks, I would rather do C&D/Sneak Attack with P/D, which does more damage and stacks more bleeds.

Of course, I didn´t meant that it works only with P/D ;-)
I prefer the Deathly blossom because of the bleeding duration advantage (15secs with +50% extra bleeding duration), you can stack 25 bleeding stack easier than with P/D, also the extra evading is great when combined with dodge caltrops, utility caltrops and steal with vigor boon on it, works wonders when stacking bleeds

Devildoc.6721:

Do you seriously think patches with changes get pushed out that fast? They don’t put in a change in a week after they say they’re going to, it takes a few weeks, the November changes had been in works for a month or more.
Backstab is still on the agenda, they’re still looking at it.

I don´t want to offend anybody, but do you really believe that there is weeks of testing before the patches are pushed to clients?
Look at the Elementalists after this patches, more accurately at their Evasive Arcana and Dragon´s tooth fixes. That wasn´t been tested at all, because those two skills basically don´t work for the most part (both should perform blast finisher – there was fix for them due to unintended behavior – both of them have lost the finishers completely!!! Which seems kinda non-tested to me.)

Suralin.3947:

When it comes to Young Karka, you shouldn’t have any trouble evading their initial ranged attack. Just keep your distance and strafe left and right, no need for using up your endurance. Once that’s set, do your magic. As a P/D cond thief, I have no problems with the Karka or any of the mobs in Orr. Just make sure you have a stun breaker or way to break the mob LOS.

That is also an option But the deathly blossom skill evades should do the trick while damaging and stacking bleeding, so less time spent = more profit
As a P/D thief the strafing is better option I suppose.

rogerwilko.6895:

won`t explorer cripple my dmg output? I always thougth that`s for a different build / spec.

Well, compared to Carrion set (Cond dmg/vit/power) the Explorer (MF/Cond dmg/power) has slightly lower condition dmg stat if I remember correctly, but the MF is a tradeoff for that. The last part where I was talking about avoiding dmg was because you lose a great chunk of vitality as well with this equip, but the evasion this build have should compensate for it. I wouldn´t bother for the cond dmg loss, it´s not too big for solo farming I hope

Edit: kitten I mistaken the Explorer´s set for the Traveller´s or Inquest armor set, Explorer´s give precicion, not condition dmg, sorry for that….

I think that you should be quite fine with the classic D/D + SB – Deathly blossom/caltrops/dodge caltrops – evading build. Some of the new mobs have more HP than usual (Breeze/Wind rider – don´t know which one is the correct name) and the young karka hits pretty hard with their ranged attack in the new zone, so the extra evading this build provides is great I suppose. You can take Explorer´s crafted equipment if you have mats/gold for it to boost your MF chance and if you´re good with avoiding dmg, which is not hard for this build anyway ;-)

Tulisin.6945:

Bleed stacks are a valuable commodity, if you’re simply racking up 25 low-damage long-duration stacks then you’re being wasteful.

When I was running condition dmg build, my bleed stacks was ticking for about 105-114 dmg in CoF (lvl 75, so was lowered), and I was able to stack all 25 bleeds by myself, however any intentional or accidental bleed from anyone else was just contraproductive. Also I don´t think that the balancing will give you enough direct dmg (you are still using deathly blossom/sneak attack for bleed application, so the initiative goes for these, not for direct dmg attacks). But I prefer specialized builds, do´t really like all-rounders, so my opinion on that can be clouded by this fact Anyway, play what you consider the most-fitting for you, and the important part, have fun while playing

Edit: The bleed dmg values was without food buffs or anything like that, also without Exotic weapons (had only rare ones, rest was exotic carrion equip. +50% bleed duration total)

Tulisin.6945:

While I agree that this is a weakness of the system, it can also be mitigated by group coordination. Either agree that you’re going to be the only one stacking lots of bleeds or balance your build to do 15-20 stacks and leave room for others to do small amounts of bleeding. This can be accomplished by pushing more condition damage/might over condition duration.

Yes, you´re right about that, but if you balance your build for 15-20 stacks of bleed, I doubt that you are putting out enough damage to beat the cons of this built (f.e. object destruction, lack of condition application at ranged – cluster bomb is really too slow to be called effective).

masztipapa.7519:

I do know the rendering issue, and it was in spvp not wvw, i also have a 60+ thief… Its pretty much a futile defending the backstab spec when every non-thief main player consider it nerf material.

It was in sPvP? I´m so sorry for you then, you should look around a bit, you know? The situational awareness is one of the most important things for sPvP/tPvP and it is not the Thiefs fault that you don´t pay attention. The warrior or most of the other classes will kill you just as fast if you don´t know they´re coming….

masztipapa.7519:

I explain it to u if u never played a thief, cast cnd->steal->cnd hit->backstab=dead, never saw him since he uses that build because he can time the steal to the end of the cast and u never see him comin, except if hes stupid enough to do it in front of u…

I explain it to you, if you never read the forums actually nor played a Thief
The “never saw him” issue is actually a engine/server rendering bug, that has nothing to do with Thief class, so don´t even try to push something because of it (FYI it applies for everyone, but mostly for Thieves and Mesmers, cause their stealth abilities).

And if you´re running WvW on your own, it´s unfortunately your own fault that you get killed like that, WvW =/= 1vs1. It´s a team based play, siege capturing and stuff. If you want to roam, go sPvP/tPvP. That´s all, folks…

Try it with stability weapons in the Mists, I suppose that it should be probably 1% dmg increase per boon (like the Elementalist talent).

Edit: Of course I meant Steady weapons, I´m confusing the words

Fletch.4603:

1. Make it only available for 30 Shadow points
2. Only usable when not in combat
3. Makes character hazy like a ghost and turns off name from showing
4. Breaking from it puts restealth prevention debuff of 3 seconds.
5. 1st attack from breaking the semi-stealth state is at a penalty of -10% damage

6. This gives people the chance to play a traditional thief/rogue who can scout and have fun while not being op.
7. At same time it actually is detrimental to damage
8. Its 30 points deep in a completely non dps tree.

I can see the bugs with this right now, don´t think it´s worth it, however who wants to play a “Rogue” again? There are other games with such classes, no need to have it here I suppose…

Kabooky.8071:

This is what I got hit with earlier today. OP have a cup O kittens.
I aint whinging, rerolled a thief alt.

5,754 steal, 2,826 cloak and dagger, 11,267 backstab

I performed a backstab hit over a milion dmg, does that mean that my Thief is OP?
No, it mean that I have hit a rabbit only…..

I played Condition dmg Thief not long ago (D/D + SB), also loved the numbers flying like crazy
But then I realized that the conditions in this game are really poorly designed (all is fine when you´re the only condition build in the group). Because I was able to stack 25x bleeding on my own, any other party member who stacked bleeding was literally stealing my dmg, so I really don´t understand the idea of this (imagine if you´re DD build and any other Direct Dmg would lower yours, is that fair?)

sorrow.2364:

The damage of that skill passed from 5k to 2k around…

I wonder, since when the 33% nerf counts as lowering the dmg of an ability from 5k dmg to 2k dmg?

NightyNight.1823:

Though you do ..I smell desperation.

Anyway to avoid going off topic too much..People are taking Thief the wrong way.I’ve been kicked out of the groups too because suposely my class is bad and it can’t take on a few mobs whitout dying.It only saves you the trouble having to deal clueless people.Ima start make some videos whit thief in PvE maybe change some perspectives out there.

No desperation here, just wanted to make the things right (about those “burst things”). But nevermind, I agree on this one with you, the condition dmg build (db spam + dodge caltrops + utility caltrops as a basic features) is really more survivable than ppl think, you are evading a LOT, so basically avoiding a huge chunk of incoming damage if you play it right and can afford to leave the combat for a while when you need to, because the contidions are dealing dmg for prolonged period of time even without your presence.

But like every build, it has it´s downsides. If the mob you´re attacking moves to much, you lose dmg (dodge caltrops have really small radius) and damaging an objects is kinda weak too.
On the other side, you don´t have to worry about the opponents armor, conditions ignore that.

NightyNight.1823:

Don’t you have better things to do?Burst , again , I sugest you use a dictionary.I’m not taking my word back.I don’t care what is your perspective on condition damage at all.The only thing that matters is that I put out 60k is 20 seconds and I can still put more the next seconds to come.Our ridiculous conversation is over.

It´s not MY perspective on condition damage, It´s kinda the basic way how to recognize build type on this class (Burst/Sustained dmg=condition dmg). Burst is what are ppl complaining since the C&D —> Steal -> Backstab builds became massively played in PvP, because that´s burst, you know?
But I agree with you with the part that this ridiculous conversation is over. I´m sorry, but you´ve just got served….

NightyNight.1823:

I said burst.I don’t care what is commonly taken for in games.Burst is a burst.The damage is already done , the rest is irrelevant.

Yes, burst is burst, but condition dmg is far away from burst, in fact it is the exact opposite of burst.
You´re welcome.

NightyNight.1823:

Yes steal 10k whit condition.Use your imagination.
And yes burst , I sugest a dictionary.Burst=/= instant.The fact is the damage is there, it doesn’t go anywhere.And no other proffestion can do that in that ammount of time.And the beauty of it , the damage stays the same ,even if its on a champion or a normal mob.

“Burst damage is a term used to describe dealing high amounts of damage in a very short period of time”.
This is the basic description of this words commonly used in MMO, condition dmg doesn´t qualify to the “very short period of time” part, simply.

NightyNight.1823:

woops its more like 20 secs ..never counted so..it seemed realy fast.
still fast enough.
3 death blossom -caltrops-roll for initiative-steal-backstab-3 deathblossom-heal-backstab-2 death blossom-shadowrefuge -backstab-3 deathblossom
22.3 seconds exacly
Want the the damage numbers now? steal alone goes around 10k
You people have no idea what thieves are capable of.

Steal for 10K with condition dmg build? You must be kidding right? Or you´re counting even the condition dmg and that means this isn´t burst anymore. You ppl should learn how to correctly call things

NightyNight.1823:

My condition thief has up to 60k bursts (not counting the elite) in less than 10 seconds

60k burst in 10 seconds? With Condition dmg build? How do you manage to do that? I´m really curious.

Hammer is AOE, however the knockdown #5 ability is single target, so this trait is more of a PvP thing, or if you will depend on some utility skill for that…
But GS outdamages Hammer greatly I think…

Or you can find something with an off-hand axe, #5 is a nice AOE ability, but quite long CD compared to 100b.

Battou.7832:

Advent.2513:

Instead of D/D I will now be rolling D/P. Shadow Shot is a great gap closer and all the extra blinds are just awesome. Also using Heartseeker out of the smoke field from Black Powder gives you that extra stealth you need. Combined with the improved Smoke Bomb utility it’s great and super fun.

I really wish they would make black powder more reliable. I get really angry when I die to a pistol whip / 100 blades while they are standing in black powder. If they did this and cleaned up the animations a little bit I feel d/p would really be a strong weapon set.

Of course you will die to Pistol Whip/100b even if you used black powder. I suppose you don´t understand how this ability works m8.
It´s like any other field in the game I´m afraid (it ticks every second → apply blind every second), so if an attacker strikes more then once per second, he will lose the blind debuff by the first attack (which misses), and the next attacks hit you, until the blindness is applied again, so if you expect to facetank these abilities by Black powder, I have no choice that to dissapoint you, unfortunately you have to move out of the range.

SpaceCowboy.1398:

I’ve recently started a Warrior, and my intent is to play mostly at range. On my Thief I can very nicely aggro a bunch of mobs, lure them into Caltrops and then bomb them with Shortbow AoE skills.

Does anybody have any tips on how you might do this is as a Warrior? Longbow’s F1 + 3 really work nicely, but usually mobs are all over me that I’m firing that at point blank range. There’s got to be a better way… maybe?

If I did throw my hands up and tried the same with a melee weapon, which one is best for AoE damage?

Thanks!

Probably the Greatsword, bladetrail cripple, then #3 AOE dmg through the group of mobs and finally 100b to finish them off

Setima.8741:

I myself won’t mind a spike damage nerf of the Thieves, but it has to be done in the right way. I’m not big on wanting to nerf a class I love, but last night I felt first hand how it feels to be semi-helpless against a high burst Thief. The problem I had wasn’t Backstab, it’s was Heartseeker. After this Thief decided to jump me when I was already at 50% life from fighting another Thief, what hit me the hardest was Heartseeker. I looked in my combat log after I pretty much just fell over in less than a second, and one of her Heartseekers did almost 10k to me (9,121). That is a just a BIT extreme for something that is 3 Initiative and spammable. For me, the ONLY hit a Thief should have that does that much damage is Backstab. I’d take getting hit for 12,000 damage from a Backstab because it has requirements (be behind them and in stealth with the signet boost’s extra 15% damage and full glass cannon build).

But Heartseeker should never hit for more than a backstab, ever, no matter how glitched to hell the skills are. Max hit for a normal, low cost, spammable move should be in the 3k range at MAX critical hit damage. If they drop Heartseeker to a move that does good damage but not OMFG damage once you hit half health, and move that damage to Backstab, I think that would help in a big way to balancing things out for the Thief without nerfing any of the other Thief builds.

That BIG Heartseeker was surely after you reached the 25% HP, and I think that is the situation for which the Thief is built intentionally (he´s closest to an assasin/murderer after all), to bring the low HP target dow quickly…

Seryi.7936:

Do some research into the concept of ‘effective HP’. Guardians get more per point of vitality then anyone else due to all their mitigation, both passive and active, as I explained in my post.

If anybody needs to do some homework before writing nonsense on the forums, it’s you.

Well, at least use the right words if you want to describe something. “HP” doesn´t equals “Effective HP” you know?
So give me a break with this, thanks…

BTW, I´m not defending neither Thief nor Warrior. Those are different classes and both of their disscused abilities (Backstab, Kill shot) can be considered OP in some situations (mainly against not experienced players or in big battles due to overally low awareness).
But the game is not in the state where it can be targeted by balancing. I wrote this a lot of times, nobody cares to read, I suppose.
So for the last time, You cannot balance something that isn´t working as intended – aka Bugs in traits/skills/class mechanics.

Seryi.7936:

especially considering Guardians get more health per point of vitality then any other profession.

Where did you get that?
Some ppl just won´t stop making things up, right?

Seriously ppl, do some research before you write some non-sense onto forums, please…

God Sealer.4103:

STRanger.5120:

Just delete the Thief completely and give me another class with equal equipment and game progress, I´m really getting sick of these non-sense arguments of ppl who have no idea how to play thief/play against it….
This whole forum is ruined by crying ppl, who expected another WoW-like game. Please leave and never look back, we like GW2, we don´t want anything like the above mentioned “crappy-mechanic/system” game. Thanks….

If it makes you feel any better I am tired of morons joining in on threads without actually reading more than 50% of the 1st post, HAD you you would have read thieves are not an issue for me, the idea about breaking stealth changed, and probably the other 70% of the game’s population wouldn’t care if the class were removed.

And if you really are defending it is a fair class to be the only one able to spike damage without someone being able to have a sign to dodge it, you are just another bad BS thief playing FotM.

FYI I don´t play BS Thief, playing Condition dmg with carrior equip…
But unfortunately, damaging conditions are broken by the design, so it´s kinda lackluster outside of 1vs1 situations.
I just can´t stand the constant made up whining on this forum, there is nothing to balance yet, a lot of abilities/traits are not working as intended, so how can you try to balance something here?

Edit: If the dmg breaks stealth, it will be practically the same as removing it from the game completely, it can´t be used for stealth attacks anymore. Good luck with the complete rework of the class because of it…

ViRuE.3612:

- Slight reduction in Backstab dmg (10-15%)

What is slight about 10-15%? That way the BS will end up exactly the same as PW did (and you will meet the condition builds 50% more, which would sux hard, because the condition bad design – one condition for all characters….)

Dervy.7901:

I’ve heard a lot of people complaining about how “underpowered” warriors are now, or how they’re not that strong as they used to. Yet, I’ve seen many of these bull charge 100B builds which is just getting out of hand…

I’m a tanky thief, max defensive traits, using Toughness boosting Runes. 19k health and 1166 thoughness; Can tank 3 glasscannons in PvP/WvW for a fair while, yet I’m always getting 1 shot by these warriors? Even backstab thiefs haven’t 1 shotted me from full HP.

The image I attached was all the damage this warrior pulled on me within a few seconds. I was dead at the yellow line I edited in. That’s an unavoidable 22k damage within a 2 seconds due to haste/quickness and the 2second knockdown. I had no time to dodge because of the Bull’s Charge knockdown and I was dead by the time I were able to move again.

Anet needs to sort out the burst damage in this game. I bet 10g that the next bandwaggon alt PvP class will be Warriors using this similar build.

Bring a Shadowstep and laugh at the Warrior furiously hitting the air, then kill him…

Hehe, take whatever fits you the most, these two builds are very different in playstyle, so it shouln´t be difficult to decide. But if I were you, I would wait until the patch (Glass cannon build will be probably destroyed by the patch, so Anet will make the decision for you :-) )