Guild Wars 2

Scarface.5203:

Once upon a time, there was that game called Diablo 3. For the sake of “balance”, the developpers nerfed every “OP” builds and abilities until everyone felt weak. They decided one day to buff some unused skills but it was too late. Gamers were angry and they left.

Feeling powerful is one of the ultimate goal when you play an MMO. If you nerf one ability because PvPers are crying about it, be sure to buff something else. You can’t just nerf something to destroy the supposedly OP build.

You nerf backstad too much and you destroy the daggers. Before playing a thief, I was playing an Elementalist. I was sure that thiefs were OP because I probably read too much on the PvP forums. I realised that thieves are the punching bags right now. They’re not as OP as they say.

Moral of the story: be really careful with nerfs.

Exactly my story, Ele was my favorite class, because of the great idea of it´s mechanic, however completely destroyed even before the game came out. I refused to play a bunker caster (it´s just wrong in my eyes), so I made a Thief, my second favorite class (not because of the damage, but I like the dynamic playstyle) and here we are, on the receiving end of the nerfbat, even before the class breaking bugs are fixed (Ele has it much worse in this case). So I created a Warrior, to test the combat feeling with the pure strength/no magic class. I´m wondering if it´s gonna be hit next, as usual if I create any character….

Just delete the Thief completely and give me another class with equal equipment and game progress, I´m really getting sick of these non-sense arguments of ppl who have no idea how to play thief/play against it….
This whole forum is ruined by crying ppl, who expected another WoW-like game. Please leave and never look back, we like GW2, we don´t want anything like the above mentioned “crappy-mechanic/system” game. Thanks….

TheGuy.3568:

Some thieves can one shot anyone that’s the point (for technical reason 3 shot is more appropriate). Also access to stealth + shortbow (not as individual mechanics but together) means thief is very survivable even on glass builds with that much burst damage.

To say it again just because it can be countered doesn’t mean it’s balanced.

This problem (stealthy teleport after a failed attempt to burst someone), will dissapear with the rendering fix…
Thief after this burst attempt has the revealed debuff and initiative to one usage of the infiltration arrow (900 range), so he´s not even out of range for any other classes ranged abilities (I assume we´re talking about the signet+basilisk GC combo Thief, which is persistently complained about).
And even if he sucesfully runs away, he cannot do the burst again for 45 seconds (aka, -1 player to the team…)

Einherjar.6709:

You’ve got to learn warrior and thief classes before claiming such a thing please.

1. - You’re wrong, warrior’s rifle range is 1200 not 1500 and has a 1.75 second highly visible cast time (because you advertise it by taking a knee and pointing at the target).
2. - You’re wrong, Steal+CnD+Backstab hits for 20k in less than one second and it can be precasted from 900.

1. -(It can be traited down to 4 initiative to make matters worse via 5 traits into Shadow Arts

1. - kill shot has the 1500 range.
2. - you need to use 2 signets and then you maybe can achieve that against a Training dummy, against bad player, you need basilisk venom (2 utils + elite on CD), decent player just won´t let you hit him even if you use the venom.
3. - It´s the 10-point trait, not 5-point…

Who should learn the classes before claiming something, now? Huh?

Grimwolf.7163:

STRanger.5120:

Devildoc.6721:

The boost is going to be in autoattacks, autoattacking on thief will be the best way to do dps on thief, like it already is for sword, and already is for pistol/dagger.

Anet stated that they don´t want it this way, hence they´ve done it for the S/P weapon set. I´m kinda confused about this

When was that said? P/D has been forced into auto-attacking for damage from the very beginning. Not even because of underpowered attacks like S/P, but simply because it was never really given other attacks. They just aren’t there, which is more than just an oversight or balancing mistake.

I think that I read it somewhere on the forums on the devs post, not sure where though….
Also it doesn´t really make sense because some weapon sets are in the autoattack-phase even now….

above mars.4586:

STRanger.5120:

above mars.4586:

I feel bad for the ele in the group. He’s stuck with two thieves and a warrior with 18k hp who doesn’t repair their armor. I bet that CoE run was rough.

No Ele in that group, m8. Two Thieves, Ranger and Engineer there

Oh right. Somehow, that engi bomb icon looked like an ele’s icon to me. Either way, I still feel bad for them.

Totally understand, too many GC heroes trying to do dungeons lately. But only die trying achieved….

above mars.4586:

I feel bad for the ele in the group. He’s stuck with two thieves and a warrior with 18k hp who doesn’t repair their armor. I bet that CoE run was rough.

No Ele in that group, m8. Two Thieves, Ranger and Engineer there

I´ve started Warrior yesterday (just wanted to compare him to my other two classes – Elementalist and Thief), and I was really surprised :-) It was actually fun (I usually never play warrior classes in games, the bore me to death. This one is different actually, I think that it´s because the nice ranged options here – I love ranged classes and Warrior has much funnier ranged skills than Ranger).

Edit: Not saying that the Thief (my main now) is less fun But Ele kinda is because of the unbelievable amount of bugs

Devildoc.6721:

STRanger.5120:

Devildoc.6721:

The boost is going to be in autoattacks, autoattacking on thief will be the best way to do dps on thief, like it already is for sword, and already is for pistol/dagger.

Anet stated that they don´t want it this way, hence they´ve done it for the S/P weapon set. I´m kinda confused about this

But autoattack is the best dps for S/P.

I haven´t said that it isn´t, did you read my reply? :-)
I´m curious what they have prepared for us, but I expect another wall of crying on these forums (probably about D/D or P/D condition builds), so nothing will change here….

Devildoc.6721:

The boost is going to be in autoattacks, autoattacking on thief will be the best way to do dps on thief, like it already is for sword, and already is for pistol/dagger.

Anet stated that they don´t want it this way, hence they´ve done it for the S/P weapon set. I´m kinda confused about this

possante.8310:

Sco.9615:

Reaxident.7351:

I got hit for 7k + today w/ 1700 toughness. I have nothing that hits for 4k, period. I am not saying overpowered, I’m not going to cry, but you seriously think its ok?

This kind of thing^
Srsly….grow up.
Warrior hits for the same if not more at least with Glass Cannon rifle and you dare complain to us about a difference of damage?

no one play warrior rifle on tournaments!!! is a useless build and you will die very easy for any class, a thief will gonna kill you in seconds.
rifle is for WvW and PvE ,any team with warrior rifle is a team with 1 less player because that build is just useless on tournaments

It´s the same for the GC Basilisk+C&D+Steal+signets+backstab build. noone plays it in tournaments, because it´s basically a meat on the stick for the decent players outta there…. So, let´s just call it even and move on, shall we?

DesertRose.2031:

Way to go for leaving out the important part:

on reflex

Thanks for your contribution, smartypants.

You don´t say…..
Maybe the Thief class is based on the moment surprise and fast burst, which can be countered by reflexive reaction.
I don´t know, but it seems kinda standard design for Thief/Assasin/Rogue classes to me, so what exactly are we talking about here? The so called “OP” build has it´s advantage and also huge disadvantages (which beats the build for a decent player), so there is really nothing to discuss right now, maybe after the bugfixes for all the classes, then we can seriously talk about the game mechanics and their OPness….

DesertRose.2031:

which are not avoidable

This isn´t true, are you aware of that? If not, then ask some experienced players how to do it. Thanks for your contribution.

testpig.5018:

-Can’t move while casting
-3second cast timer
-can’t be chained by to back to back(takes time to build up to being able to fire off that shot that may or may not hit
-notice it’s only being used in zerg on zerg battles, where players are just running around like chickens with there heads cut off, worthless in the small scale fights

Where did you get the 3 second cast timer? This is not WoW fireball, dude Kill shot has 1,75 sec cast.
Also with the right build and some utilities, you´re able to fire kill shot practically on CD (10 secs) – GC backstab Thief can never do that with those 45 secs CDs.
Of course it is used only in zerg battles (obvious animation), but that´s still a situation where you actually help your server, on the other side, backstab GC build is unusable in server-helping situations (if you manage to down someone, you can´t finish him because of the other ppl – supposed they are not idiots).

Edelweiss.9815:

You’re getting nerfed. Learn how to get over it.

You´re gonna be beaten by the Thieves, no matter what Anet will do to them. Get over it or just … (You all know, I suppose) :-)

bow.6179:

Be interesting to float this by the warrior thread and see what they say. At this point if we go on another thread and massive QQ we’ll be doing it because it was done to us.

For clarification, I´m not complaining about kill shot being OP or something, I´m just comparing our abilities with other classes.
I still believe that the game is impossible to balance before class/mechanics bugfixes and any nerfing/buffing now will only destroy the intended mechanics (look how Eles got hit by the BWE nerf… with their weirdly designed traits and bugs all over the place).

DesertRose.2031:

Use Cluster Bomb then; sure, it has only 1200 range but on a plus side ~12k AoE damage. If they run out of the AoE before it hits let it explode sooner, if you’re lucky you might still hit a few of those players for ~4k.

Cluster bomb is not even nearly comparable to kill shot, even without a bugged dmg. the only advantage to Cluster is that it can´t be reflected back, but who cares if anybody who does pay even little attention gets a big red circle warning, right?
Detonate help to hit sometimes, but it hardly endanger anyone. Also I have quite hard time to believe the 12K hit with cluster, the biggest hit I ever saw with this skill was 9k, against a non-80 character….

DesertRose.2031:

Also note that all those insane damage numbers were against up-leveled players against which Backstab would also have dealt ~20k damage, too. Look at ~4:30 when he fights an actual level 80 Ele; suddenly those 20k Kill Shots turn into a 9k Kill Shot.

Yes, I´m aware of it, but try to play the backstab GC build in WvW and be useful to your server, killing stragglers won´t do any good for your server, so the kill shot is still much better option (you can shoot from walls and up to them, but how can you backstab on a siege defense? If you jump down with GC build, you get killed in the matter of seconds, if you´re superlucky).

testpig.5018:

-Warrior is not invisible. You know what and where to avoid.

You´re right, he´s not invisible, but also he can perform the shot from the range of 1500 :-) with basically double the Thief´s HP and much higher base armor. See the point?

sorrow.2364:

Saying that a Necro has better bursts is most ridiculous excuse you have heard to justify BS damage.

I didn´t saw anyone say that, so don´t make things up buddy ;-)
Also this burst performed by the necro is pretty awesome, blindness and daze is really great and totally worth the slightly longer burst time. I bet that Thieves would like to have a daze/blind in their combo for that price (it´s much more difficult to avoid than the actual Thief combo).
Also it works very similarly to the Thief combo (burn the CDs, get a kill and wait until they are back up to repeat). I really don´t see much difference between this and the Thief combo in terms of OPness.

Sentinel VX.1392:

STRanger.5120:

lordburka.3845:

Check out:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/55895-minions-invincible-thief-build/

That´s a condition dmg build, the OP rather wanted some DD burst build I suppose.
But the question is, for what purpose? There are more than one burst builds, depeneding on usage.

Edit: My bad, the thread has its Critical dmg part, sorry for that. Only the condition part was stuck in my head

I’m actually looking for SPvP or WvWvW where you fight people. D/D feels weak for me somehow since I’m only using skill 1 and 2 most of time or maybe I’m playing it wrong.

Try Backstab build for direct dmg or Deadly blossom build pro condition dmg. It works nice

subcrazy.1098:

With every spvp having 5- 8 thieves a game pretty soon it will be thief wars.

I don´t think so, because if Anet nerf it to the ground (like ppl here are requesting), it will be rather Mesmer Wars…

lordburka.3845:

Check out:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/55895-minions-invincible-thief-build/

That´s a condition dmg build, the OP rather wanted some DD burst build I suppose.
But the question is, for what purpose? There are more than one burst builds, depeneding on usage.

Edit: My bad, the thread has its Critical dmg part, sorry for that. Only the condition part was stuck in my head

NightShade.5283:

yup thats a great suggestion, considering thats superior runes is more expensive than major, and there is not that much difference between those 2 runes

Thanks, I was converting my Thief to condition dmg recently, and you had inspired me greatly for further enhancements on my build, so when this idea occured to me while I was looking at the build, I had to share
Finally, this is a thread which belongs to these forums :-)

Phantom.8130:

how about this? have it so that mug does a 1 second knockdown instead of doing any damage, and counts as an actual attack. that way it would break the stealth provided by CnD, but the target would be prone and open to a few free attacks.

Very interesting idea, also lowers the damage of the combo. But I believe that those ppl who whine about this combo will consider it a buff to the Thief (Knockdown? 10-point trait? Nerf nerf nerf), so I think that this would be even worse for these forums

NightShade.5283:

my first choice rune for pvp is undead runes, because ppl tend to bring more defensive utility such as cond removal, but the reason why im using three types of runes in WvW,because sometimes when im sniping dolyaks they guard it with 3-7 ppl (i know its sounds crazy) i need to make sure that my bleed ticks long enough while im invis thats mean i can do enough damage without exposing myself, so with those 3 runes i have middle ground , where my bleeds tick longer, but i wont lose that much damage even when enemies using cond removal. *btw i forgot to mention that short condition duration is cons for P/D, but like i said before it easy to restack compared to D/D LDB longer duration but kinda hard to restack due to higher ini cost

I thought that this would be the reason Thanks for the clarification.
Also, I saw a calculations over the forums which were showing that for the sneak attack the beneficial bleed duration is only as 25% and then at 50%, for DB every 10% counts as an extra tick (due to longer base duration).
Assuming that these suggestions are true, It will be cheaper to get 4x major rune of the afflicted (57 cond dmg and 25% bleed duration) instead of 2x superior centaur and 2x superior afflicted (25 power, 28 cond dmg and 30% bleed duration), and the condition dmg will get even a little buff :-)

Edit: Unintended underlines

NightShade.5283:

cond removal only make fight a bit more longer then it supposed to be, the good thing about p/d their bleed duration short 4s-5s tops,but u can easily restack it in short time,(compared to D/D LDB) and auto attack from pistol inflict bleeding too, i’ve fought many bunker ele with tons condition removal, everytime they remove my condition i can restackt 6 bleed in 1-2 secs due to auto attack and sneak attack, and i wont run out ini if u connect ur CnD,
thats why i dump all my stats in condition damage

What about the runes? You have three types of runes in that build, so it is looking like you are stacking some cond duration after all. The complete set of undead runes will result in more condition dmg and bonus toughness as well. How about that? :-)

Latinkuro.9420:

Or like I proposed introduce stealth detection skills for all classes.

Or you can just delete the Thief class and refund it´s players with a free character with equal lvl and equip the deleted Thief had, less effort, 100% effectivity

roamzero.9486:

Something that had me thinking.. would a huge nerf in backstab damage be justified if that damage was simply replaced by enough stacks of bleed over x seconds to cover the damage that was nerfed off? Maybe throw in some cripple and weakness for a few seconds as well.

This idea came to my mind as well, there´s a but however.
This change will basically make the build non-viable, because it will change backstab into a condition-based ability (like the pistol stealth ability). But it will be great if the option to choose the stealth ability from two different skills will be implemented (for example backstab = direct dmg / cutthroat = massive stack of bleeding).
However, this doesn´t solve the wall of crying here

Elements using casters / Rogue type classes are usually those who are fun for me, maybe ranger/hunter type in some games, but those two i mentioned first just fits my playstyle. Ele failed unfortunately (I don´t see their only viable spec – bunker as a caster class playstyle, so I´m stuck with Thief now). Love the Thiefs fast paced-action combat Even in Condition spec which I´m now playing.

sorrow.2364:

I don’t think they will do bad balancing on a game which is that easy to balance like Guild Wars 2 is.

Sorry, but I can´t agree on that, GW2 is probably the most difficult MMO in the terms of balancing now. Mostly because a lot of skills/traits are not working as intended or have side effects (like the rendering issue for example) or just because some classes traits are weirdly designed that it is in conflict with the class mechanic (Elementalist for example).

bwillb.2165:

Just came back after a day or so away… Really scratching my head at the state of this argument. Somehow backstab thieves went from dealing 9k damage in 3 seconds to 20k damage in 1.5 seconds over the course of a week or so, and now to 30k damage in 0.3 seconds over the course of one day. All without a single buff and, indeed, some nerfs in the first time period. Those kitten thieves and their 1337 h4xx0r 5killz… how’s a nerf supposed to fix them if they can just hack in huge damage increases like that?

We are just getting better over time, obviously
This discussion is without any sense now, if they nerf BS, ppl will argue about P/D condition build next… or cluster spam build, or Deathly blossom build, then they move to another class and start to whine there….

Again and for the last time, the balance can be adressed AFTER the classes are bugfixed, and i mean all the classes, not only Thief or Elementalist. Without fixes, it´s not balancing, but just simple ruining the class mechanics and abilities…

EasymodeX.4062:

Except no, because CnD+Mug has nearly zero telegraph, and there is no indication of what spec the Thief is.

The BR CC and effect doesn’t take place until a quarter second after the BR arrives at your position, which is a half second after it begins, so you have just under 0.75 seconds to dodge a blatantly obvious animation irrespective of build.

The Mug is instantaneous, and the CnD animation itself is very subtle. Also, there’s no way to tell what build the player is who’s using the CND-Mug combo.

Furthermore, the CnD + Backstab full animation time is similar to the BR time, but the HB is completely in excess of the CND+Mug+BS. In other words, BR finished by the time the Thief cast their entire combo. By the time the Hundred Blades would even begin in the case of a Warrior, you are already dead in the case of a Thief.

You’re making a ton of excuses trying to pretend that a slow damage over time combo is anywhere near as good as an instakill combo.

The animation of C&D seems very obvious for me, and if you see a Thief running to you, with daggers in hands (daggers are small, you know), you have to be prepared that he will probably perform this combo. End of story…

EasymodeX.4062:

STRanger.5120:

EasymodeX.4062:

Get over it. Sig-CND-Mug-BS is the combo; the rest is fluff.

This combo is easier to avoid than the BR + 100b combo, therefore there is nothing to talk about if you consider that OP….

Oh please, you can dodge BR on reflex 99% of the time. And, HB takes twice as long to execute with Frenzy than CND-Mug-BS takes to execute without Quickness.

You can dodge C&D + Steal at the same rate minimum…. Nothing more to say…

gamefreak.5673:

The stealth comes from Black Powder + Heartseeker (a Smoke Field + Leap Finisher combo). Given that the Heartseekers do not hit anything, it is possible to maintain the stealth for a nice amount of time (albeit, the AOE circle for Black Powder is still visible…but it is quite faint). Now you can build a decent backstab build and have traits to restore initiative to keep this going. If you want more proof ill provide it.

This looks like a bad joke to me. If you want to lose all of Thiefs´ mobility, you can try this, but if someone catches you while performing this exercise (another thief probably?), you´re meat on the stick for him….
Also stealth stacking has been nerfed, so this is not permastealth at all….

At least if you want to actually do something. A Thief not attacking = a Thief that is not dangerous.

EasymodeX.4062:

Get over it. Sig-CND-Mug-BS is the combo; the rest is fluff.

This combo is easier to avoid than the BR + 100b combo, therefore there is nothing to talk about if you consider that OP….

gamefreak.5673:

We are all wrong, your words of wisdom has shown me i am just a horrible player and backstab perma stealth thieves are balanced.

You know this is Guild Wars 2 forum? You must have got accidentaly here, permastealth is in another game, you know?
If you mean the rendering bug, that´s not the classes fault, so please wait for fix and leave arguments like this for that games´ forum…..

EasymodeX.4062:

Duh, the combo uses Signet, CND, Mug, Backstab.

sPvP variants probably crutch on Basilisk Venom because sPvP gear has less DPS, so you actually want to follow up the combo with 1 HS or a couple autoattacks. However, for WvW it’s unnecessary.

This leaves you with, as I said previously, 2 utilities, 1 elite, a heal, and a pile of initiative because the only thing that cost any was CND.

Why am I explaining to you how your class works?

Hmm.

Edit: Although “your” is probably the wrong word since I have a Thief too … doesn’t everyone?

A little correction on this, sorry bro.

This combo ppl are complaining about is using Basilisk/Devourer venom (1 Elite/util slot), Assasins signet (another util slot) and a lot of ppl are using another signet for the 5x might boon (you know, to do the damage :-) ), so that leaves you with 1 utility or 1 elite slot left (basically the basilisk is used more because it´s better for this purpose), so 1 utility slot left…. and some initiative (9 if traited to Trickstery, less when traited for some survival).

See the difference?

sorrow.2364:

I haven’t said that Stealth should be removed or nerfed to thieves. Read the post I was answering, he stated that thieves have worse survivability compared to other professions, so they have high damage to compensate which is absolutely untrue, as you also stated.
I know that Stealth is the cause of thieves’ low health, but looks like many thieves think that high damage is the reason of their low hp pool.

The reason for Thieves low HP is certainly the dmg output + average armor (low if dmg specced) and stealth. But stealth is really far away from invulnerability as some other classes have (Ele for example, and yes, I know some of those skills are horribly bugged – e.g. Mist form, but that´s not the topic here). So Thief unfortunately have a little of active defences (like protection or invulnerability where skills can be normally used – focus earth Ele skill f.e.) that the class deserves the high dmg it has (to be honest, some high armor, high HP dudes can do even more dmg in the same time, everybody knows that, but nobody cares until an Enemy #1 isn´t nerfed…..)

EasymodeX.4062:

when the Thief still has 2 utilities, 1 elite, a heal, and 8+ initiative available.

I´m quite interested where did you got those numbers? Enlighten me please, because I didn´t saw a single Thief who manages to have these after the so called OP combo. Thank you.

sorrow.2364:

kineticdamage.6279:

So, history of Rogue archetypes repeats itself …

Seems like we won’t see any MMO dev who will assume the “cannon” part of glass-cannon, after all.

(because yeah, actually if I don’t spec full Toughness/Healing with my Thief, I just die in 3 hits)

Like every other profession!
It’s not only thieves who die really fast if they don’t invest in toughness or defensive skills, but thieves have also another advantage: Stealth.

Just take, for instance, the Elementalist. If you don’t put any point in Earth Magic or Water Magic, you are going to die in a couple of hits anyway. Necromancer are in the same situation, same for Warrior, Guardians, Rangers and Engineers.

But Thieves have stealth and high mobility to leave a fight you are going to lose or to get better positioning.

The point is that BS build damage right now is too high also for a glass cannon.

There´s some differencies between classes, you know? :-)
For example the health pool (Warrior, Necro), the armor (what, again Warrior? + Guardian), healing abilities (f.e. Elementalist, Guardian)

Thieves has stealth instead, it doesn´t reduce dmg, doesn´t heal without traits, doesn´t enlarge our HPs. It makes us harder to hit though (which sounds fair to me, because player with brain can still hit you if you´re a noob like everyone says about the most of Thief players). The rendering bug is the only problem in this mechanic, and it wasn´t created by Thief players, but gues what? It´s Anet´s responsibility, so let them fix it for you and don´t you dare to suggest anything else, don´t be unreasonable, please.

Jefzor.7145:

STRanger.5120:

Jefzor.7145:

It doesn’t need a casting time, but it does need to interrupt whatever skill you were previously using (and so should shadowstep, and so should all other instant teleport skills from other classes)

That would definitely solve some problems with this, but it will actually render some skills totally unusable (like the above mentioned Churning Earth, that spell will no longer be viable for PvP usage and very risky in PvE too…). So alteration of those skills would be needed too.

Well, I’m not sure about other classes, to be honest. That was just assuming they had similar abuses of the same game mechanic that could use a similar fix.

I´m sure about Elementalists, as I have one myself. I don´t know accurately how this is used by other classes, only heard about that. But the Ele combo would be ruined by this for sure, that comes from my own experience.

Jefzor.7145:

It doesn’t need a casting time, but it does need to interrupt whatever skill you were previously using (and so should shadowstep, and so should all other instant teleport skills from other classes)

That would definitely solve some problems with this, but it will actually render some skills totally unusable (like the above mentioned Churning Earth, that spell will no longer be viable for PvP usage and very risky in PvE too…). So alteration of those skills would be needed too.

Calle.8746:

The main subject of my reply was the damage, but obviously, since u couldn’t disagree with that u had to say something. I only pointed out that the bug is annoying as hell and since this forum section is about theives so I don’t see any point of bring up the other classes.

There will always be bugs. Bugs – balance, non is more important to fix then the other. Wich is why I’m pretty sure Anet doesn’t have their entire team working on just bugs, or just balance but both.

And this topic is about theives. There are topics on other proffsections about their messed up skills or damage or bugs or whatever. I really don’t get why you come here with your “well that class does that and this class does this”. It doesn’t belong here. GTFO

No need to be rude, pal.

I just wanted to point out that there are many bugs present for a quite a long time and I believe that balancing things without these bugs corrected (I don´t mean any concrete bugs – all classes have some which are quite fatal) is really contraproductive. I´m not really defending Thiefs burst, I just don´t want the class destroyed before bugfixing (which unfortunately happened to the Elementalist, for the ppl who don´t want to play bunker Ele —- which sounds really stupid for a caster you know. It´s like if Druids in another game were forced to play Feral tanks because any other build just sucks.).

Calle.8746:

I see a lot of “theif is powerful in 1v1 but sucks in masspvp so it’s all good”. Well theif would be good in 1v1 even if they had lower damage but that would require the theif to have some skill. Now basically any kitten can make a theif, use steal – cloak and dagger – backstab – dead enemy. I’ve seen good theives I have, but most of the theives I face are noobs. People who don’t even know how to play the game. Who don’t know how to avoid attacks or how to dodge. And getting killed by a person like that, just cuz’ he takes half my hp in 1 hit then runs in stealth and takes the other half is annoying as hell. Now I’ve managed to learn how to counter theif somewhat. But the damage is just lol. Also the stealth bug is so kitten I just wanna cry. Sometimes I find myself getting attacked for 5-10 seconds without seeing anyone, without being able to counter the attack and then BOOM – dead. And after I’m downed a theif shows up out of stealth to finish me off. That is just kitten

EDIT: Love the kitten thing LoL

Should I start complaining about bugs (character rendering) like you do? What about Bladetrail, huh? Nobody notices that? Ability, intended to work as a cripple-application skill does much more damage than the Thiefs burst (Everybody seen that screenshot, lot of ppl tested it on their own), still, Thiefs burst with bugged rendering is the biggest issue of them all…..
I say, fix first, balance after, only that way it can be fair and not fail….

What armor set do you have? I can´t find any with Vit/Precision/critdmg. Thanks

sorrow.2364:

Thieves have the best single target damage out of this game by far.

Care to clarify this? I didn´t know of any DPS measuring option for this game so far…

I think that all the ppl who thinks that Backstab is that much OP it needs nerf should try Dark Souls – there you will see how backstab works and I can grant you that if you want to finish that game, you will really learn how to avoid it…
You are all lucky that Anet didn´t based backstab on reality, because that attack would simply ignore any armor (there are uncovered spots in the plate armor you know? And ppl which can be named “assasins” or “thiefs” for purpose of this game were bloody good at hitting these spots…)

Anyway, any balancing seems irrelevant to me, because bugfixes are top priority, without them the game simply can´t be balanced….

SKuDDer.1860:

Typical, brush it off on something else with no proof to back it up? You thieves keep saying show proof, but yet you show none in return. I just showed you a video of a current thief (who’s not all that good) easily rolling people, sometimes multiple in WvWvW.

I like the response though. Its like saying, well mesmers can push one button and kill the whole server instantly, there is a video out there somewhere.

@nightynight, hardly any of them I see in the video have greens arrows, but good try derailing it.

The problem with these videos is simple, they are cutted, edited etc… Everybody is capable of getting such kills in WvW (where undergeared ppl are not that rare). If somebody wants to decide whether Thief is OP or not bassed on WvW, so he should show WvW, not some random killing of roamers (you know, WvW is not about that…), Or you can show a decent sPvP/tPvP video where everybody has equal equipped characters and where some skillful players are present. Thanks

Kaleygh.1524:

People arguing that the thief is a “dps/assassin/whatever class” tend to forget that ANET is not sticking by the “holy trinity” that we find in other games.

Tell this to the Elementalists, which have one viable sPvP/tPvP build, and that´s probably the most weird one for a caster class (Bunker Elementalist).