Guild Wars 2

Zealot, Paragon, Valkyrie, Sentinel, Avenger

They are already in-game in other formats.

No.

I really don’t know how else to put it into words right now… other then to say I disagree with this completely.

Outside of theory crafting, no one outside of Anet and there close buddies have any idea how the Trait Changes and Specs will affect combat, let alone how Buff/Debuff gameplay will be affected.

When you start bringing in outside sources of Boons and you play well and cooperate with others, Yes, of course the group as a whole is going to empower you greatly, that kinda the point behind group-play.

Is the new system going to play well with the current “meta” of how things are done? No, not at all. You could argue that everything about HoT is designed to break the meta apart.

Using a narrow situation to validate a nerf a major aspect of the entire game that affects everyone everywhere regardless of the situation is just bad balancing.

Good to see people still working to maintain the current classes. And I agree with a few here that the changes sound great, but the little things that will be changing will be where the truth of this Specs lie.

For example, Altruistic Healing won’t be as powerful on a DH as it is on a Guard.

Critical Login server death!, Just got kicked out twice in under 3 mins!

Couldn’t even stay on long enough to kill the spider queen in AC!

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Sarif.1827:

From what I can tell, the Dye slots haven’t been totally mapped out correctly yet..

If you have some armors on that have 4 dye channels for example, channel 1, 2 and 4 are used but not 3.

I would say this might have been intended, to keep people from playing around with them too much, and remember, most of these links don’t function properly yet (IE: Give a accurate tootip link), the armor could still be in the last few polishing phases.

If anything, this would make early critique more pertinent. I’m voicing the direction that I would like for them to take the armor in the last few polishing phases, if, indeed, there are any polishing phases left for it.

True! Did not think of it that way… however, I got some new info…

Apparently, certain dye channels are not the same across all armors… For an example. the Carapace Boots 1st dye slot will not actually dye the Mistforged Boots, in fact, none of the dye channels on the Carapace Boots will.. However, the Phalanx Boots 1st dye channel can…

Makes you wonder how the dye system is really set up in the background…

Mind you, I’m not saying this is bad or anything, just interesting!

Scoobaniec.9561:

Revenant next legend and greatsword skills leaked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctW277Kpcv0...maybe one day.

If. Only.

To hell with this Shrio guy… who or whatever he is.

…. I just want to point out… that given your intent here…

you are posting in the HoT section of the forums…

That’s like saying your not going to breath the air in your living room… but the kitchen air is fine.

From what I can tell, the Dye slots haven’t been totally mapped out correctly yet..

If you have some armors on that have 4 dye channels for example, channel 1, 2 and 4 are used but not 3.

I would say this might have been intended, to keep people from playing around with them too much, and remember, most of these links don’t function properly yet (IE: Give a accurate tootip link), the armor could still be in the last few polishing phases.

Might have something to do with the Armor stats that is already aligned with Vent…

That and he is closely tied to the plant people… as far as I am concerned, until Mordy is handled, he can stay in the mist. But that is me being a Plant-hating snob…

In my whole time playing this game, I have only ever stepped into WvW for two reasons:
Mistforged Weapons & Map completion.

I personally take no interest, excitement, or joy at the thought of PVP, much less Zerg vs Zerg warfare. It’s just not my thing… and If Anet is truly trying to rope people into other play modes to improve the longevity of this game, some rewards are going to have to manifest.

and just to say this, because it needs to be said if a Dev ends up seeing this:

Making the rewards take Weeks or Months to get is not a hook to get PvE’ers into PvP/WvW, it’s a reason not too.

… a lot of people have noticed some things have a sudden and all around GREEN tone to them.. down bars, Text Bubbles… etc…

Is this something to do with St. Pat or is this some UI bugs?

If it is a St Patty’s thing, would have been nice to know before hand!

Silly Devs! We need Patch Notes!

lordkrall.7241:

Sarif.1827:

I’d be suprised if the Beta testing is anything more then demo.

If they just port the Demo to say… 10,000 people.. and of those, 4000 play for no less then 8 hours a day, and then give decent feedback, that’s 32,000 hours of play testing and reviewing served on a golden platter to Anet for next to no man hours themselves, which is not a bad thing mind you. Hell, even if you take into account the 6000 that could get at most 3 hours a day, that’s still another 18,000 hours of data collection… You can do a lot with 18,000 hours of data.

and that’s just the first Beta…

Do you honestly think that they will release the expansion with only having large-scale tested a very small part of it?

I do not think you know what a beta actually is (which is quite common nowadays, most companies sees betas as marketing events rather than actual testing). ArenaNet do on the other hand, based on past experience of GW2 do real betas and actually changes stuff based on feedback during those betas.

Oh really? …. I don’t know what I’m talking about? Well… if your so sure.. then I suppose I can’t argue with you, because clearly, you know me better then I do.

Please don’t insult people you don’t know.. it makes you look socially underdeveloped.

With that out of the way, Yes, I do believe they wont give First Phase Closed Beta Testers access to everything, and that is based of the limited Press Demo, and the lack of a NDA.

If I am wrong, then HEY! Sweet! Kick kitten , but my personal opinion on this is just that, I NEVER said anything about the ability of Anet to change things or response to feedback, in fact, I even recall saying that the CBT will be a amazing way for them to get ahold of some amazing data to, I thought this spoke for itself.., CHANGE THINGS BASED ON FEEDBACK AND NUMERICAL DATA.

Your free to go back and re-read my post, I believe I even stated that my opinion was based on the first beta available. You yourself even stated that you feel Anet will do Betas in stages.

lordkrall.7241:

That would depend on how they do the betas. It is quite likely that they do them in staged and doesn’t just add the whole expansion into the very first build.

It has already started there will be two major beta phases already (Closed and Open). For all I know, Open Beta could be a “Here’s the Expac, Go nuts, find us Bugs to fix so we can get this monster ready.”

I’d be suprised if the Beta testing is anything more then demo.

If they just port the Demo to say… 10,000 people.. and of those, 4000 play for no less then 8 hours a day, and then give decent feedback, that’s 32,000 hours of play testing and reviewing served on a golden platter to Anet for next to no man hours themselves, which is not a bad thing mind you. Hell, even if you take into account the 6000 that could get at most 3 hours a day, that’s still another 18,000 hours of data collection… You can do a lot with 18,000 hours of data.

and that’s just the first Beta…

In Order:

Greatsword: It took me two years, three rage quits, help from tons of people and bleeding my GF’s bank dry to make sunrise. If Revenant can’t use it, And seeing as this is the only real selling point for me with this game.. I’ll have to rethink if I want to spend my money here.

Sword Main Hand: I like my blades, what can I say? Also, that skill Rytlock pulled off in the teaser video (Mist-form, bouncing between three targets) makes me drool.

Axe Main Hand: I love what the Ax can do Off-hand, I’d love to see what it could pull off Main handing.

Dagger Any/Both Hands: Nothing sexier then two blades to mist-gut people with!

Ranged Weapon: Something that is more DPS focused, I love the hammer, but it’s not really a ranged DPS weapon, as Hammers are apparently more about “control” then anything else.

Finish the Revenant (Weapons, Legends, Traits)

Specializations for EVERYONE, a complete view.

legendaries, and how this Precursor system will work in it’s entirety.

The running theme here is give us ALL the info regarding the expac, we will fuel the hype train just fine without this drip feed BS.

Givin how everything Anet is doing lately regarding anything (Patches, Updates, News, Content etc etc.) I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually release a VERY small zone, and then, over a few months, give us access to the rest of the “HoT” related zones.. Kinda like how they did Silverwaste and Dry Top.. just.. larger scale and… behind a paywall…

But do you really want Mastary Lines to be class tied?

I mean, what would you give Guardians, Warriors, or Mesmers?

Don;t get me wrong, I like the idea of unlocking new skins for skills and abilites, but If your going to do it for one, you got to do it for the others too!

Scoobaniec.9561:

Traits should be all about utility and so far, they did a great job with that in revenant. Traits itself are not even bound to legendary stances except that one which grants immunity boon while using mallyx skills. I like that personally as i dont have to take Jalis for retribution trait line.

I agree, but the Traits should also play into each other and support out of trait lines, most of the current metas I know about are the way they are because they require 6 points in a line, add the most beneficial support to skills or game-play, and out class other lines, skills or abilities in terms of their utility.

It’d be nice to be able to truly mix and match trait, not just for the Rev, but every class and Spec.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Now we olny dont know how well hammer on revenant scales with power, but i dont think its going to scale bad considering the fact he doesnt have a weapon swap, on top of that his damage ability on skill 2 in max range might be actually pretty close to eviscrate damage.

Close, but I’d believe manging to hit that (given how far you have to be and the giant tellagraph for PVP sake, and the lack of stacking for PVE) will be a little harder then most give it credit for. I big question would be how well does the ability track along the ground and can it go up walls!

Scoobaniec.9561:

But well while you all looking at how low he hits with that hammer, im more curious about his skill utilities, actually n.3 on hammer to be precise. It seems like it goes to kitten all gap closers and bursts;

Example 1;

In the POI where the leap was used, the mob actually turned back to the leap targeted location instead of continuing to follow the original position of revenant. What if i lets say use rush/swoop and at same time revenant will use his leap somewhere else lets say behind me? Will i continue to going to the original location of revenant or i will turn around like the mob in poi that will “kitten” my gap closer? I think the latter.

I’d think you’d turn after the Rev, but If you watch some of the press videos closely, you can see people using that skill, and taking Burning ticks from the Wyvern’s Fire on the ground, It’s not a invunerabilty state and your still able to take damage, yes, it might screw up a few closers here and there, but I don’t think it’s going to ruin much.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Example 2;

Lets say a warrior or mesmer used immo at me and started to use hb/blur frenzy. At same time i have used this magical leap that seems more like a teleport with animation that ignores cripple/chill/immo. In theory im not psychically there anymore where someone burst me down, instead im going to the targeted location. Will i continue taking damage or ill avoid it completely?

If ti works like any other leap attack, the Immobileize wont allow the Rev to leap away, and I think at the heart of the skill, it is a Leap, just with a shadowstep back at the end of it. This however, will require hands on play testing to put to rest.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Also what about projectiles? Will they miss or actully hit me still? Theres no doubt that i will be able to avoid them by running out of range anyway.

I believe the ones that are moving fast enough can hit, and if you leap towards the shooter, it will only make it easier to hit, As far as missing, I’d reference you to EVE Online Projectile Turret mechanics (Projectile’s speed, angle of approach, size, vs Target’s distance, speed, angle of approach and size). basically, you’d have to be Leaping away at a 45 degree angle with enough distance between you and the shooter to make up for the lack of speed in the leap compared to most projectiles (Sorry Guardian’s Specter )

Scoobaniec.9561:

Overall this class seems to be solid, but it also seems to to have a really high skill celling, and i doubt many ppl will be able to play it properly and push it t the limit. Many players will drop this class probably within a month. But inst is something that should apply to every class? Weak in noob hands, destructive in skilled hands?

Agreed, but this really only matters in Competitive Play. In Co-Op play, you want as much OP on your side as you can get! I also play a little game called Warframe, and that is mostly a Co-Op game with a lot of insane abilities the players can use, and even though I might not play the current meta, I don’t mind when I play with others that do because, HEY! They are on my side! Not everyone feels this way, and sometimes, you need to make a High Skill cap class for those that are really good at fitting into a mold can shine!

Thanks for your feedback man, I didn’t think about the skill cap and how that might affect some people’s view.

Cool downs are one way to balance a class.

Frankly, I think there are a LOT of balancing levers built into Reveneant so that the Devs can quickly (and by quickly, I mean their version of it) balancing the Revenant out so that it don’t quickly overwhelm the other classes.

That and they are trying to bring back their old system with a new twist because… well, it’s their game… mostly… kinda.

Uhh No, you have to start fresh from what I understand.

We have bows that shoot unicorns, Why the heck not? I doubt the bat will change the projectile, but that’s alright.

I have a friend that would kill for a giant spoon hammer or a giant fork GS…

Kaleban.9834:

1. Its not a strawman. At most, it looks like Specializations will add one new weapon and switch out one traitline for another. So you’re looking at 5 skills at most (Elementalist being the wildcard), with a 1:1 exchange on traits. That’s NOT even in the same ballpark as an entirely new profession, which by the way the Revenant will also be getting a specialization, so comes out way ahead in terms of design and tech compared to the old professions.

We know this: Spec will add a new weapon, a new Trait line, new Profession Mechanic, and add some new Utilities.

My guess (And I stress this is a guess) is four new utilities because they are going to pull the fifth trait line and the utilities attached to them (Example: Guardian’s Virtues, the Virtues Trait Line and Consecrations.) It was in a interview video for Angry Joe or MMORPG where they said the new profession mechanics where coming.

As for the exact numbers of new skills, as of right now, it’s all hearsay. 2? 3? 10? 40? no one that knows, is saying anything.

Also, this has nothing to do with what I asked.

Kaleban.9834:

2. – there are many skills like this, spread throughout the existing professions, that have minimal effects, and in the case of the Ele especially, insanely high cooldowns. The Revenant is being designed from the ground up with the lessons learned from the last 3 years, whereas the existing professions are still bogged down by underpowered skills, traits that still don’t work or are bugged, and all manner of issues. The Revenant will NOT have these issues, by the simple fact that its being freshly designed to integrate into an existing 3 year meta cycle.

You assuming the lessons you learned are the ones they learned and your assuming that they are designing the Revenant to be some kinda supreme class that has no flaws.

With a focus on Esports, and a drive to step foot into that money making pool, I can guarantee you, the Revenant will have its’ will have flaws, and they will be glaring, just as much as other classes, decent business practices will force this. As with all things Game Development related, at the end of the day, they need to make decisions that make money too.

As for the Metas and how valuable some traits are and are not: this is not the point of this thread, and I would appreciate getting back on to topic.

Kaleban.9834:

3. When individual skills outshine entire other professions, then yes, they’re OP, otherwise, its apparent you don’t understand basic definitions of words. If you can look at skills like “Rite of the Great Dwarf” and not see insanely OP designed skills being thrown willy nilly onto the upcoming selling point of the new expansion, then you must not be much of a competitive player.

Like… Healing Signet outshining Virtue of Resolve even with Healing Power stacked to the teeth? This is nothing new and it seems to fit into their system just fine. People still play Guardians, myself included.

How is Rite of the Great Dwarf OP? How does this defeat other classes by it self? It cost 40% of your max energy, and grants an unknown Damage Reduction amount (which could be anything from 0.00001% to 99.999% for all we know.). Explain to me how this is overpowered. I’d like to know!

Kaleban.9834:

Lastly, people are just bummed that from everything that has been shown, the tech effects of the entire Revenant class, if they are added at all to existing professions will likely only be Specializations. So Rangers who stay Rangers, Warriors who stay Warriors, etc. will still be using the same skill effects they’ve been seeing since release. Sure, we might see a technical re-work of Stability, and numbers balancing, but the whiz bang effects of skills are unlikely to change.

Aside from being completely off topic, the only new effect the Reveant is getting in cascade damage, which, personally, I’d gladly trade for a instant area of effect. if you are referencing whole “dis-attached camera” thing, that’s not really anything new pers se, just spell effects used in cleaver ways (Render character model invisible, generate secondary character model, apply mist sub-effect materiel replacement, use hammer leap animation at range, snap back to starting location, delete secondary character model, enable visuals on primary model.) None of which are new, just not really seen in one place before.

This would make for a great new topic, I suggest going and making it!

draxynnic.3719:

I’ve been thinking myself that people may have been missing some of the weaknesses of the revenant.

A big one in my mind is a lack of customisability. It’s even worse off than the elementalist in that respect – you can’t even choose your utilities, you just choose your weaponset and your two legendaries and that’s your entire skillbar set. It probably means it’ll be relatively easy for ArenaNet to balance, due to a relative lack of distinct builds, but it also might mean that revenants find it more difficult to eke out the most optimal setups and to adjust to changes in the meta.

This. If the Revenant is to be of any kinda threat in PVP, it will have to have different build set ups (like everyone else is now) or numerically over the top to make up for the fact that you have no hidden cards. One of the biggest things you hear PVP’ers of any caliber talk about is figuring out your opponent’s tool kit and then countering it for the win, and if the Rev is basically “Yo Dawg, he’s my kitten”, I think any half decent PVP’er will be able to avoid a lot of the big things and latch on to the Rev when they are in their downtime.

It would also suck if the Revenant had less Utilities then the other classes because of the legend lock out. I can think of a few way to avoid this off the top of my head, but that’s for a different post XD

Terrahero.9358:

But if you don’t see a problem in an ability that removed 2 boons and applies 5x confusion (to up to 5 enemy targets), that can be spammed, I don’t know what to tell you because you’re obviously not into any kind of pvp content.

And what about Null Field? Granted, I’m not a huge Pvp’er, nor a Mesmer, but when I do pvp, Null Field seems to do a hell of a good job striping boons and applying conditions. Spamed? you can toss five of these out IF you happened to be sitting at max energy, don’t do anything else and have three unique conditions on you already.

I might just not have the experience (I’m Wolf Ranked) but that just doesn’t seems… over the top given other things we can already do.

Terrahero.9358:

Another is the Hammer ability to raise a wall that protects against projectiles. It lasts 6sec and has a 12sec cooldown. A 50% uptime on something that grants complete protections against projectile based attacks, not just for you but anyone else behind that shield, seem balanced to you?
In WvW a zerg with a few Revenants and a bit of coordination is almost untouchable for ranged builds if this ability goes live as it is. Ow and it’s also a Dark field, so yummy yummy Lifesteal.

That wall is scaring a lot of people, which on the surface, I can understand, Wall of Reflection seems to mess up some people from time to time, but I have never seen it stop anyone that knows what they are doing, and the big one here:

The shield is not set right in front of you. It wouldn’t be beyond the realm of possibility to simply walk though it and shoot away, or push the poor guy into a corner and then shoot him to hell, or light up the ground under them and kill them with AEs. As a Guardian, I am intimately familiar with how a projectile blocking wall works, I can tell you having a Wall doesn’t do as much to save you from good players, good groups or coordinated groups. in sPvP most of the good players I run into tend to favor unavoidable attacks such as AEs, Conditions, Heavy Burst, Melee, and a solid mix of all the above.

Watching the videos of people actually using Lifesteal, it doesn’t seem to heal a lot, and that’s not a lot of sustain to try and build a functioning class off of. Something like 64per hit, for a total (assuming your only spamming 1 the whole time) 256ish (Uptime on the wall/rate of fire on Hammer 1 rounded down times healing amount (48*64 = 256)). That is weaker then Virtue of Resolve…

WvW however is a different animal and the dynamics of how large scale battles work in there drastically affects how skills work, but even coordinated, there are many things you can do to prevent this from working. Take a Guard into sPvP or WvW, and use Wall of reflection and what everyone rush you in melee, the same will happen with Rev, even with a 50% up time. Which, Mind you, I doubt will stay the same. I can see the energy cost of these skills shooting up closer to launch.

Terrahero.9358:

Just two examples, but there’s more. If you’re more of a pve player, what about that aoe field that displaces a target? It pulses, jump that on a boss and it will remove a lot of that new defiance mechanic. Simply because the boss doesn’t get displaced, stays in the field, and eats 5 CCs from a single ability.

In comparison to what? we don’t even know how much of the Break Bar the current classes will be able to handle, Will Memsers be Break Bar kings? Will Hammer Warriors be the true terror of world bosses? Could Guardian Hammer 4 Break a Bar on its’ own?

Yes that seems strong vs a solo fight (as we have seen so many from the story section Referencing Bog Otter’s video here), but making accusations like this without having a valid comparison or a control sample is just speculation and hearsay.

Terrahero.9358:

Now obviously it’s still a work in progress. However everything seems to incredibly streamlined for Revenant and very good. Even the “bad” stuff we’ve seen so far is still very good when compared to other professions. And that’s where concerns come from.

Ok this I can get, and I completely agree with you on this fact! But as I have heard said quite a few times, the Revenant is one of the LARGEST selling points of this expac, and so yes, Anet is going to only show it in a unrealistic light of amazement. This is farther reenforced by the “Small Vertical Slice” the demo takes place in. Everything in a game is hand crafted, and everything made by man is designed to express certain things. In the Demo’s case, How amazing the Revenant is.

Nike.2631:

By “no information” you do mean a fairly complete look at three of their trait lines, two legends, and a weapon set, right? Because that’s plently to put together some builds with and think “hmmm, that trait right there is WAY more powerful than a similar trait we already know well…”

A look at a clearly defined Test build that is heavily seated in its’ alpha testing… Remember the changes to the classes from CBT1 to 2? or 2 to 3? to Launch? Massive power swings occurred each time with more and more feed back. This also applies to Traits and legends.

Technically, yes, you CAN build a complete build from what we have, but we don’t even know if those traits are where they want them at the moment, place holders for the actual balanced versions. For all we know, these traits could just be subtle hype-train fuel for the Expac.

Anet relies heavily on Player Testing to find a balancing point and they have a clear base line in mind (not that they discuss with us what it is mind you) because at the end of the day, there is a lot more man-hours on our side of the table then theirs, and they know this.

Nike.2631:

If I wanted to go with blind fear-mongering I’d just point out that Revenant inherited its lead designer from WARRIOR and if you don’t think that class has been coddled just a wee bit by the Class Balance team, you haven’t been playing the same game as the rest of us.

Well, that would be blind fear-mongering, although as a I have been playing since launch and my ONLY level 80 is a guardian, Yes, I know it feels like the warrior is clearly loved, but would it be any different if it was Mesmer? or Thief? There will always be that one class that’s leading the power curve, and one that is at the end of it, the trick to “balance” in my book is to get those two ends as close as possible.

If it is all just Blind Fear, I think the industry as a whole has given us so many lessons that new classes come in hot, and that is where a lot of this “woe” is coming from.

Nike.2631:

Truthfully I don’t think it’s shaping up to be grossly over powered, but its gonna land right in the top tier with a couple of _really questionably “balanced” traits unless we see a LOT of clean up and love given to the non-golden child classes of the game (hint: everyone not in heavy armor)._

Can you tell me which ones you find to be OP? and why? I want like.. solid numbers and information to consider here, mostly because I can’t seem to see it. Also, truly OP things in my book don’t work in just a single super specific situation, but in most to all situations.

Seriously, you hear this everywhere the class is discussed…

But the more I look at the skills and abilities, the more I review the numbers for what we have now, and given the fact that we don’t have any solid information to draw any real conclusions from….

How in the nine bloody hells of Balthazar are people coming to the conclusion that Rev will be OP? If anything, from what we know right now and the speculation we have from varies “This person said this” (without verifiable links) I kinda find the Rev to be in a rather weak place.

Unlike it’s heavy brethren, it has no meaningful sustain to keep in in a fight (HP in the mid range, no viable self healing mechanic), no mitigation modifiers (Invulnerable states, Aegis, Blocks, Vigor) aside from the 40energy, 5 sec DR elite (Which only Anet knows how much is actually reduced).

Please, I really feel like I am missing out on something here, can someone explain to me how the Revenant is going to be OP?