Guild Wars 2

AlBundy.7851:

sure wish there were moderators on these forums that would delete posts or lock threads that don’t stay on the topic.

It’s pretty on-topic. I wanted to generate discussion that looked into new and viable tPvP builds besides Glass GS, and that’s exactly what’s happening.

Thieves in WvW are a little ridiculous, maybe. I run a S/P duelist build and it’s kind of crazy.

But Thieves in tPvP do need a bit of diversity. D/P and S/D are decent sets, but they’re spammy and miserable to use. =/

The Warden is one of the best high-DPS phantasms if you use the pull combo mentioned by knackyknave. The projectile absorb is honestly just a gimmick at that point.

Warlord.9074:

AlBundy.7851:

I offer as much advice as I possibly can, and it’s consistently panned by people who insist that Warriors are useless. The only thing I can’t do is post full builds, because they’re sort of privy to our guild’s meta.

fml. Just don’t just don’t. Don’t play this stupid I have a secret build bullcrap.

Ya there are no such thing as secret warrior builds. Since warriors have no real viable builds outside of PVE. All the “almost” viable builds were invited by people other than you and your guild long before you even existed lol. As far as guild meta stuff everyone runs the same stupid hammer builds. Either a stupid shout build or a melandru build with a hammer. And these builds are worthless for anything but zerging. Nothing has changed with warriors except for dogged march and boon hate since the game has game out. Dont pretend you have secret warrior build information to people who been playing warriors since open beta and have tried kitten you haven’t even tried.

I’m not talking about WvW zerging, dude xD

There’s been one massive change, and that was the merging of the Burst Mastery trait. That trait alone has made hundreds of new builds both possible and viable, and all I still see are the Bull’s Rush – Berserker – Frenzy – Greatsword builds that offer absolutely nothing to the meta but a single and easily cancelled squishy damage hotspot.

My point, in the end, is that Warriors are capable of more than pure glass.

I actually run a variant of this build in sPvP.

It kicks face

My favorite combo at the moment is Mace/Horn + Hammer, with Axe/Shield + Hammer and Axe/Mace + Mace/Shield taking close seconds.

I would LOVE Torch for the Thief.

Pistol/Torch would be incredible and maybe a Dagger/Torch Mightstacking build.

Oh man, if it was a radius immobilize, I’d be so happy 8D

But unfortunately, it’s a bug =/ oh well.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Also, a thief running that type of build can have 18-20k HP, around 2.5k armor, regenerate health and lose conditions in stealth, be able to dodge 3-4 times in a row, has ranged and melee blinds up all the time, 2-4 teleport skills/stunbreakers. ANNNNND can be built to have over 100% crit damage without food and have every attack from stealth crit automatically, so that glass cannon rife warrior will die, fast, like really really fast, sorry homey.

Where is this build? I want to see it, so I can play it.

We need to go 30 deep for Hidden Killer, and 30 deep for heal in stealth, and 15 deep for getting even close to permanent-dodge.

We have two ranged blinds, and neither are spammable.

We have a total of three true teleports, two of which break stun. And if we bring that set, then we can’t bring the ranged blind I mentioned before.

As for the stats, that’s entirely ridiculous, unless we run full Cavalier’s… in which case, we can nail maybe a single 4-5k backstab and that’s about it, we’re out of commission for the next 6 or so seconds. And if we’re running that build, then we can’t bring one of our teleports.

Jonwar.9205:

GS is used so often because it’s one of our only weapon sets that really does more than one thing well. Damage obviously, defense and mobility.

Glass warriors are common because the only role we really fill is damage. Anything and everything else somebody else can do better, but as far as pure firepower in a teamfight the warrior generally reigns supreme.

The problem is simply it’s much easier to shut us down than it is for us to counter it. You can say “Oh, but I still do damage with my soldiers amulet”. No, you do not, you do some damage but hardly enough to outdamage heals in a teamfight. Yes, you may outlive people, you may be better at 1v1, but you will preform your role in an inferior manner to a glass warr.

In short, extra toughness and vitality may keep you alive longer, but it makes your team dead faster to not have the other guys damage dealers dead quickly. It costs your team points the longer a bunker survives on a point.

I agree, in general, and I guess I see the meta of pure-glass War a bit more clearly now. But I do still feel that we can provide more as a survivable CC/support than we can as raw damage.

I’m pretty sure the Protection and Aegis bits are pushing it, unless he’s referring to Warhorn’s ability to convert conditions to boons, in which case he is quite definitely right.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quick_Breathing

@AlBundy:

I offer as much advice as I possibly can, and it’s consistently panned by people who insist that Warriors are useless. The only thing I can’t do is post full builds, because they’re sort of privy to our guild’s meta.

Sil.4560:

I’d love it if one or both of those weapons had that ability. I also feel that kitten like aegis should only block one hit of Bladetrail, not cause the otherwise piercing projectile to completely disappear.

Warriors need more Unblockable attacks in general. I feel like Whirling Axe would be a great candidate for that.

Our team is looking into professional play. Every day is tough, but fun. We find joy in improvement and facing even better teams.

That’s the endgame of the endgame xD the crown of PvP is just… PvP. Good players vs. good players.

GS Bladetrail needs to be on a longer cooldown, and the return needs to act as a pull.

I’d love it if Axe had a similar ability.

randomfightfan.4091:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

randomfightfan.4091:

Putting this into a pve perspective, it’d be amazing and wonderful if I could use the stun portion (the part where you’re rooted, doing no damage, and vulnerable) away from the boss

The first part of PW doesn’t root you? PW roots you once the whipping starts.
Or do you mean that very small interval between the pistol and the whipping?

I’m talking about pretty much the entire time from after you start casting the stun and before the evade starts. It’s like 3/4 of a second or something stupid while the stun is only half that. Besides, using pistol whip on any boss (that requires any skill or timing) is a death wish. The evade just isn’t reliable at all.

You can use your stun (the actual act of whipping the opponent with your pistol) while moving, but you’re rooted while slashing.

Independently, these are okay, but the problem is that the stun can’t always hold an opponent in place for the duration of the slashing frenzy.

Splitting the skill would allow for more tactical stuns, and offer a way to “cash in” on a stun if you really want to. We’d be able to run an actual tank spec with the build, as well! With well-timed stuns and equally well-timed slashing evades, we could properly shut down melee and be able to finally combat burst without the use of stealth.

:D

Fenrir.5493:

Varonth.5830:

AlBundy.7851:

Greatsword is used for it’s superior mobility and ability to disengage if used properly.

If you would spend 5 seconds looking at a skill calculator or actually making a warrior you know in game you would see from our weapon skills, utility abilities, traits and downed state warriors are designed to do massive damage in a very short amount of time.

Our ability to last in battle is non existent against semi decent players. A lot of people think you can build a warrior for sustain or prolonged fights but then these people never play outside of pve or a massive zerg ball with 10 guardians supporting the 40 other players running around the map steamrolling one person at a time that doesn’t know how to dive through a zerg.

Btw I can’t tell if your trolling or just really ignorant?

Hammer+Sword/Warhorn has better mobility (savage leap isn’t affected by chill/cripple immobilize, and allows for some pretty nice shortcuts on maps like Kyhlo)
It doesn’t rely on stuff like Bull’s Rush because it is already build into one of the weaponset. Since Hammer also has a stun, not just a knockdown (ranged aswell, not affected by chill/cripple) you can use it with Unsuspecting Foe.
Using Valkyrie with 10 points into arms, you are at 79% critchance with Fury.
Using Zerger with 20 points into arms and fury is 64% critchance.

A full zerger warrior (20/20/0/0/30) build does ~33% more damage (if you are lucky and crit every single strike, which took a while to test btw) with 100B than a 0/10/0/30/30 specced hammer warrior with shout heals and soldier runes.

So you can choose between 33% more damage or:

• Defensive Utilities for you and your group
  • More CC remove
  • More movement impairing effect remove
  • Small additional small heals over time
  • Perm Vigor
  • Perm Swiftness
  • Access to Protection
  • Access to Regen
  • Access to Aegis
• Way better CC
• More realiable damage (also inbetween stuns)
• Actually better mobility (earthshaker can also be used as a 600 range jump)
• 644 additional toughness
• Higher critchance when bursting
• Minor improvement in healing with Valkyries
• Good access to weakness (the reduced endurance regen helps alot)
• Blast finisher (best finisher ingame) on a pretty low cooldown

I kinda laugh at this standard Bull’s Rush, Frenzy, X warriors. They run out of stunbreaks so fast, and if they stunbreak with Frenzy, I crit them for like 5-6k with my autoattack.
Or if they really get me and hit a full 100B and not even get me below 50% health.
What a zerger warrior can kill is other zergers players, and not even any of them.
A valkyrie on the other hand deals so much damage over time, while surviving so much longer…

Enlight us with your build and equips plz.

I’m pretty sure he’s using Defektive’s build. It runs at 3k attack, 44% crit chance with Fury/30 Adrenaline, and 45% crit damage.

It also has around 24k health and 3k armor

Varonth.5830:

Scoobaniec.9561:

lupercaleb.6041:

because it’s silly

Good to know sir..Keep ur animations of 60 years old grandpa then. Warriors need to be dynamic to be effective..current animations are a joke

The video looks like that character is using magic to gain the speed and flight used for that rush.
GW2 Warrior don’t use alot of magic. Magic use of a warrior is limited to magical weapons and magical signets. Magical would be items like Bolt/Volcanus Foefire Weapons…
They don’t channel that magic through their body.
The rush animation reflects this.

They do use magic though

All Warriors use the battle-oriented magic of Balthazar.

AlBundy.7851:

Greatsword is used for it’s superior mobility and ability to disengage if used properly.

If you would spend 5 seconds looking at a skill calculator or actually making a warrior you know in game you would see from our weapon skills, utility abilities, traits and downed state warriors are designed to do massive damage in a very short amount of time.

Our ability to last in battle is non existent against semi decent players. A lot of people think you can build a warrior for sustain or prolonged fights but then these people never play outside of pve or a massive zerg ball with 10 guardians supporting the 40 other players running around the map steamrolling one person at a time that doesn’t know how to dive through a zerg.

Btw I can’t tell if your trolling or just really ignorant?

sigh

I play MaceWarhorn or AxeShield + Hammer using a Valkyrie or Soldiers’ spec, and I play perfectly fine in ranked tPvP. It isn’t extremely strong 1v1, unfortunately, but it’s very strong in teamfights and the MaceHorn combo offers absolutely unparalleled support while shutting down an opponent entirely.

Not trolling or ignorant, just very averse to glassy builds.

Warriors need a survivability buff, but we’re honestly not as hopelessly bad as our community portrays us. And due to the rampant trolling/doom&gloom/idiocy that pervades this forum (speaking almost entirely to XII here), the devs treat this forum as the community that cried wolf.

Olba.5376:

Forestgreen.7981:

SharadSun.3089:

Forestgreen.7981:

Now that mesmers are adopting the entire boon strip and running 20/20/0/0/30 they can spam shatter and remove Signet of Rage buffs along with that stability you were using so they weren’t just daze/stun/into the void pulling you all day.

Doesn’t help that thieves are now in full power with running double sword/dagger only builds with swapping sigils stealing boons left and right.

Also the fact that almost every single necro runs Corrupt Boons that just removes whatever boons I got. So much for rune of lyssa, oh well.

PS. Thanks A-Net, community still trying to find a workable tPvP build that’s viable after 9 months.! Let’s make it 10 when you buff our banners some more and kick in the next patch.

Mesmers have been running that spec since late 2012, mate.

Also, run CC and communicate with your team. Warriors are like battering rams: they hit hard, but they need 4 people to carry them in order to be effective.

Just trying to show how the lastest change made Warrior’s only good ability that 99% of warriors run SoR are now either worthless (mesmers) or detrimental (necro,thieves) when you use em.

They could fix a lot of that by bringing Battle Standard up to the level of the other banners. All banners except Battle Standard have a 95s duration and thus can have a 99% uptime with a small investment of 10 points into Tactics. In comparison, Battle Standard is 65s, so with the same trait it’s only a 34% uptime.

Personally, the biggest reason I don’t use Battle Standard is because of the absolutely crappy uptime. The partywide boons I can already provide much better with a Warhorn and For Great Justice and the crappy uptime means that it’s not worth keeping for personal use either.

ah xD I use it purely for the res.

Maybe it’s the tPvP mentality, but I go for burst utility over consistent utility.

With all that said, Battle Standard does need a bit of a buff. Maybe an effect that stacks Fury higher over time, so when it expires, you still have a massive Fury uptime that lasts until you can summon the banner next.

To me, Battle Standard is a great counter to boon removal; it offers fairly consistent utility and junk-boon padding. But as you said, the uptime does suffer.

Not really much of a mystery, I guess, but why are Greatsword burst builds so overused, over other builds?

On a similar tangent, why are Warriors only running around with Berserker’s Amulet? There’s other amulets in the game, you know.

Stuff like this is why we see ourselves as glassy; because we build glassy and get punished for it.

Again, not really a rant, just amused and confused.

Forestgreen.7981:

SharadSun.3089:

Forestgreen.7981:

Now that mesmers are adopting the entire boon strip and running 20/20/0/0/30 they can spam shatter and remove Signet of Rage buffs along with that stability you were using so they weren’t just daze/stun/into the void pulling you all day.

Doesn’t help that thieves are now in full power with running double sword/dagger only builds with swapping sigils stealing boons left and right.

Also the fact that almost every single necro runs Corrupt Boons that just removes whatever boons I got. So much for rune of lyssa, oh well.

PS. Thanks A-Net, community still trying to find a workable tPvP build that’s viable after 9 months.! Let’s make it 10 when you buff our banners some more and kick in the next patch.

Mesmers have been running that spec since late 2012, mate.

Also, run CC and communicate with your team. Warriors are like battering rams: they hit hard, but they need 4 people to carry them in order to be effective.

Just trying to show how the lastest change made Warrior’s only good ability that 99% of warriors run SoR are now either worthless (mesmers) or detrimental (necro,thieves) when you use em.

Most of the better warriors I know use Battle Standard for the res, and I’ve taken their choice into my own build (not counting the might-stacking axe/longbow Warriors).

But yeah, I do agree with the general premise. I just don’t think that Warriors are so boon-reliant to be forced to deal with the issue. If we had a better class niche overall, this boonstealing bit wouldn’t even be a problem for us.

Dempsey.8760:

SharadSun.3089:

Reviver’s Might, Versatile Power, and Mobile Strikes are all bad. xD

Please explain why mobile strikes, an AMAZING PvP trait is bad?
Really? It breaks immob with a ton of different skills, many of which are in kitten near every PvP warrior build. And currently immob is probably one of the most op conditions in the game, considering in most cases (especially warrior) it cannot be cleared instantly like a stun or another form of CC, and is used to gain advantage over the enemy by 7 of the classes in game? All of which either use immob to kite or to keep you in place for another attack. Being able to take back that control is really powerful.
Distracting strikes can actually be good in spvp if used correctly and with a set up like mace/mace OR shield and hammer you just have to be good at interpreting your opponents moves. However confusion being the condition it applies is like WTF? I understand the premise of the trait name with the attached confusion but really? The condition does not what so ever synergize with anything else a warrior has.

Callahan.3180:

SharadSun.3089:

Reviver’s Might, Versatile Power, and Mobile Strikes are all bad. xD

Go play ranger then tell me mobile strikes are bad. It’s honestly the best trait we have at the moment and is incredibly strong. You’re basically immune to immobs if you carry the right wep sets.

Woops! I totally biffed that one.

I meant Warrior’s Sprint! xD sorry!

Mobile Strikes is a must-bring, unless I’m using Vigorous Focus. Honestly, though, the trait’s not enough to make a Warrior remotely viable. I’ve stopped using it these days for the aforementioned Vigor, because my movement skills still get kited by Chill, and the trait itself is buggy as hell and sometimes only activates after the movement skill is done channeling.

XII.9401:

SharadSun.3089:

Reviver’s Might, Versatile Power, and Mobile Strikes are all bad. xD

Mobile strikes are bad? Your informed posts continue to entertain us, Shyamalan. We are pleased..

I don’t get it. You keep calling me this name in an attempt to troll me. It’s not even relevant. You look dumb. Stop.

Forestgreen.7981:

Now that mesmers are adopting the entire boon strip and running 20/20/0/0/30 they can spam shatter and remove Signet of Rage buffs along with that stability you were using so they weren’t just daze/stun/into the void pulling you all day.

Doesn’t help that thieves are now in full power with running double sword/dagger only builds with swapping sigils stealing boons left and right.

Also the fact that almost every single necro runs Corrupt Boons that just removes whatever boons I got. So much for rune of lyssa, oh well.

PS. Thanks A-Net, community still trying to find a workable tPvP build that’s viable after 9 months.! Let’s make it 10 when you buff our banners some more and kick in the next patch.

Mesmers have been running that spec since late 2012, mate.

Also, run CC and communicate with your team. Warriors are like battering rams: they hit hard, but they need 4 people to carry them in order to be effective.

Dagger Storm needs a buff, yes. And invulnerability while attacking in an AoE is perfect, yes.

Yes.

YEESSSSS >:D

intimidate much.1298:

And might I add something which i have forgotten. I feel and believe thievies have very good mobility. they have a lot of shadow steps available to them and traits such as “Move 50% faster in stealth” (stacked on top of swiftness and a 25% constant speed buff). despite all this, thieves still usually have to get to a relative close distance to you to deal damage. so if you manage to pin them down, most thieves have low defence so it should be easy enough for you to kill them.

Speed boosts don’t stack.

Hey, Defektive!

I’ve been running this build (or several variations on it, including but not limited to Axe/Shield, Sword/Shield, Axe/Horn, and Mace/Shield) for Team Thunderguard, under the name “Infinity Hammer”. I personally believe that Mace/Horn is the best combination for this, but Sword pushes this build’s mobility over the edge into viability.

PM me on my Warrior, Skryyk, and let’s talk buildcraft!

I love this idea. It isn’t conceivably OP in any way, and it gives us the flexibility we need to actually use PW properly.

We also get the option to just use the skill as a stun, and completely ignore the damage end, giving us a control mechanism that’s actually usable in battle.

Thieves have 0 survivability in combat. We cannot deal damage while using our main healing-by-volume (stealth), taking us out of the fight and essentially forcing a 4v5. This, combined with our inability to tank hits, forces us to stay out of the fight, thus negating our presence in sustained combat.

However, we have the mobility to offer a great degree of utility in multiple fights across the map.

Stealth is a bad mechanic in this game’s combat at the moment, seeing as it offers nothing to the fight besides a target-drop. However, it allows us to escape fights, giving us the chance to offer assistance elsewhere.

loseridoit.2756:

SharadSun.3089:

Reviver’s Might, Versatile Power, and Mobile Strikes are all bad. xD

hey i am using versatile power and mobile strikes.

wanna duel?

I use them too. xD but they’re still bad. I have no choice if I want to get into Burst Mastery.

Reviver’s Might, Versatile Power, and Mobile Strikes are all bad. xD

Zamiel.2791:

“Stealth is such a broken mechanic. I wish I could disengage and not get hurt whenever I wanted.” – Warrior player who constantly runs shield, feel no pain, and balanced stance.

Warrior do lack disengage, that’s the thing. They can easily be Crippled/Chilled/Immobilized forever, even after all the traits that exist to prevent them from being so.

I play a Warrior too xD so knowing that I can’t teleport out is definitely difficult. Then again, that’s why I play Warrior at all, because I like the challenge of committing to a fight.

Copenhagen.7015:

What XII is trying to get at is that quickness for Warriors has the most collateral damage, while other classes have some way to mitigate the negative effect.

Warriors built properly will have a good ton of CC that they’d use to prevent the damage from ever occurring.

Rednik.3809:

SharadSun.3089:

Team Thunderguard. Ranked between top 500 to top 10% NA. Axe/Shield Hammer Valkyrie Interceptor Spec.

And how much warriors in top 500 teams? And to get even more clear picture of high-end tPvP, how much warriors in top-30?

I believe QTHMann is the only top-end Warrior currently playing =/ we are in a pretty sad state, and hopefully the buffs will bring us up to par.

XII.9401:

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Funny thing is, I was rerailing it by explaining a good strategy to beat thieves with a Hammer Warrior, which I do fairly consistently.

There are THREE ways a Thief can blind you while he is stunned: Signet of Shadows, Blinding Powder, and the Blinding Powder minor trait in the Adept tree of Shadow Arts which activates at 25% health.

Most Thieves DO NOT use Blinding Powder (the skill OR the trait), and if a good player is using Signet of Shadows, then it would be wiser of you to autoattack instead of using high-volume damage skills which can be easily avoided.

My rotation usually runs Bull’s Rush into Berserker Stance > Backbreaker > Fierce Blow > Staggering Blow > Earthshaker > switch > kite into a Shield Bash into a 2- or 3-bar Eviscerate.

That’s what the Discipline line does for you: massive Adrenaline regeneration on weapon swaps and burst use.

I do agree that Sword Thieves wreck this setup, and that’s because they were literally designed to deal with heavy classes. If you can beat a Sword thief as a Hammer warrior (or any sort of warrior), good job and kudos.

But D/P Thieves fail against a properly tanky and intelligent Warrior. Your constant calls for unnecessary nerfs are hurting the community by instilling a terrible attitude amongst Warriors, and actually convincing them that Thieves are OP instead of getting them to open their minds and embrace new strategies.

Play a Thief for a day and try, just TRY to midfight. It’s rationally impossible and you will die to cleave in less than seconds. Mobility and disengage are literally the only reasons thieves are played any more, given that they’re notoriously bad at 1v1 (except vs. Mesmers, but that’s a different story).

Warriors do need a buff. I’ve called for many buffs, a rehaul of the Shouts line to include a Reveal shout, more AoE CC, anything to give Warriors the niche they need. So stop screaming bloody murder every time someone tries to post friendly advice, because honestly, it’s tiring.

G’day.

Kardiamond.6952:

I hear this everytime.

“It would be OP to start each fight with full life bar”

Why? Why would it be?

We are balanced around using Death Shroud.

Personally, even with full DS, I don’t go in a fight thinking : “Man easy fight”.

With full DS, I know I start on equal footing.

With an empty bar, I feel like I start with an handicap.

In WvW, I start each fight with full LF, and I have yet to see anyone call out necro for being OP in WvW because of DS.

Actually, that makes more sense than anything =o

If the necro started with 100% lifeforce it’d be able to access that as a secondary bar, making the lack of other survivability perfectly sustainable. Then, to continue sustaining damage, the Necro would need to build LF back up again artificially. I would LOVE to see tanky necros with the ability to… you know, actually tank.

Then after the battle, the necro regenerates to 100% lifeforce again. Just like a normal health bar.

In that way, all of those “gain lifeforce” effects are actually HEALS.

:D

Gwalchgwn.1659:

^Yeah, anet themselves said that both warrior and necro aren’t supposed to run from a fight. They are supposed to stick close and force ppl to run from THEM. Of course that’s not really the case yet (not all the time) since anet is still tweaking with the warrior and necromancer (if i’m not wrong from last interview: they want to make accumulating points for deathshroud easier)

That said; the point of all the deathshroud buffing is to allow the necro to stay in fights and actually have an effect xD

Necros and Warriors are definitely the frontliners of GW2, so they end up being hit the hardest. Hopefully these patches will help them deal with that burden.

XII.9401:

Amirio.3802:

Hey guys I quit playing Guild wars 2 for more then 5 months now I was wonder if there have been any major changes to warriors since I left, last time I played they were pretty kitten. Have most of the issues with the bugs been fixed?

Nope. No good changes yet. Anyone who tells you otherwise just ask them what competitive high end tourney team they play on with their warrior and how many matches they are losing.

Team Thunderguard. Ranked between top 500 to top 10% NA. Axe/Shield Hammer Valkyrie Interceptor Spec.

I’m honestly okay with Warriors dying to condition damage, that’s a team support thing that needs to be worked out. But I would like Endure Pain to make us immune to movement-slowing and CC effects. If I could do that, then maybe at least I could hit the opponent to death and force a downed-fight.

Azraeel.1238:

TheGuy.3568”

Could you name one class/build that has the mobility CC and burst to catch a thief, CC them, and burst them before they enter stealth or stun break?

Ummm… Let’s see, a berzerk Guardian (GS/Sword-Focus), a mesmer, an elementalist, and probably even a ranger.

Ralathar.7236”

If you think blinking after a thief to attempt to AOE them is a counter then you have zero understanding of a thief. If you think the counter to thief is to present them with the squishiest target possible and make it a battle of who spikes who first you also have zero understanding of thief.

Let’s start with the fact that I have a thief, and you don’t. I leveled one, and you didn’t. I did WvW with him, and you didn’t. So me having zero understanding of a thief is a dumb statement. You still think that stealth = Invulnerability, and you won’t understand the class until you roll one yourself. Not only that, I have fought thieves with my power Necromancer, and I just love it whenever a thief appears downed after a stealth. I am not saying you need to go GC to nail one, you just need the right setup. Go open a thread in the Engineering sub-forum and ask how to counter thieves as a whole, and not how to counter two utilities of a thief.

I will say this again, ANY class if they decide to run away, and they got the setup for it, they can do it effectively. Don’t nag that a thief can run away when they are using 2-3 escape utilities and you are using damage/defensive ones. Put on 3 escape utilities, attack someone, and use them to run away. I highly doubt they will catch you.

I do somewhat disagree with this. The Necro and the Warrior both have bitterly terrible disengage… the Warrior for reasons built into the game itself, the Necro because that much carry capacity warrants a gamble of investment.

But the rest of your point holds completely true XD +1

Sword/Focus + Staff is a really great combination xD I use it with Knight’s in both PvE and PvP, it’s excellent.

Especially when combined with a high-DPS Shatters spec, it nails everything in the area for such massive crit damage that PvE is a cakewalk and PvP is… getting there.

They die to kiting, conditions, and most range. They can tank admirably against melee, built properly, and their CC is absolutely unmatched. They can also nail out decent damage with Valkyrie specs without sacrificing too much survivability.

But yeah, in general, they’re soft little kittens. >> I honestly can’t wait for the Weakness buff, so I can actually use the hammer properly.

chokes on soda

g-good one…

The Quickness attrition mechanics were designed to take away the one MOST IMPORTANT survivability element of that class. Warriors rely on natural mitigation so their penalty was a damage intake increase, Rangers rely on healing so their penalty was a healing mitigation, we rely on dodging so our attrition mechanic is Endurance.

I honestly hope we’ve all figured this out by now.

XII.9401:

SharadSun.3089:

XII.9401:

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Jesus actual Christ. I can see the massive chip on your shoulder all the way from the Engineer forums. >>

Anyways, there’s some fairly easy ways to avoid Thief burst. Don’t play too glassy, always pay attention to your heal and use it as soon as you can reap a fair benefit from it. If a thief stealths and goes missing, swing once with your autoattack to clear any blinds and then immediately Earthshaker into the ground where you’re standing. The thief WILL come out of stealth at this point, at which point you will Backbreaker > Stagger > swap and start wrecking him with whatever auto you may be using. I personally use Axe/Shield + Hammer Knight’s gear in WvW on my Warrior, and I’m sure my Thief would have no chance against him ;-;

Berserker Stance is your friend.

Always AoE stun whenever you have the ability to, neglecting it is giving the Thief a free gank.

Cheers!

Cool story, bro. I’m constantly entertained by your replies defending the broken thief class/playing on your Engy.

Just a few points:
Shadow step breaks stun and so they avoid your cc and re open again with your hammer burst on 7-9 sec cool down with the need to fill the adrenaline bar. Takes only one shadowstep to avoid stun and get away with immobilized.

Your tanky warrior will drop to a good thief. I’m glad that you base your knowledge on fighting thieves from WvW and not spvp.

Yes your thief will definately lose to your warrior because you might be a below average thief.

Any thief with half a brain would watch for frenzy and instantly shadow step away making you blow it. Did you know that frenzy was nerfed on the warrior? Do you watch the opponent bar for buffs etc when your playing a thief?I highly recommend it., that way the thief class would carry you better.

Some of us posting here actually PLAY the warrior and want it fixed. Not play other classes, come trolling our forums and pretend to know the class.

Thanks for trolling by, Cheeeers! >.>

The thing is, I play PvP mainly. I barely touch WvW because I see it as an imbalanced zergfest, I only really go there to farm kills for the monthly.

My warrior DESTROYS thieves in PvP. Even some of the truly skilled ones, and I’m nationally ranked in the top 10%, so I play against the best in NA. I’ve put more effort and dedication into playing Valkyrie Warrior in PvP, more than any other class I think, and so your argument remains null.

I’m not trolling, either. Thieves are, after playing every class to exhaustion and burning tournaments with every imaginable build, mostly underwhelming. They die to cleave, they die to attrition and stunlock after blowing their survival CD’s, and if you’re being killed 1v1 by a thief who has little-to-no survivability besides their constant mobility, then you should really be the one learning to play your class.

Also, the reason I don’t leave home without Berserker Stance and the Burst Mastery trait es exactly that: I can’t deal with not having Adrenaline. If you want to complain about not having that Adrenaline, then maybe you should find ways to get more. Berserker Stance refills your bar entirely to drop a CC burst, and then keeps filling you to prepare for a second. A single Earthshaker + Eviscerate melts any thief 1v1, in WvW or tPvP alike.

EDIT: Who the hell uses Frenzy any more? Not me. >>

XII.9401:

-

Jesus actual Christ. I can see the massive chip on your shoulder all the way from the Engineer forums. >>

Anyways, there’s some fairly easy ways to avoid Thief burst. Don’t play too glassy, always pay attention to your heal and use it as soon as you can reap a fair benefit from it. If a thief stealths and goes missing, swing once with your autoattack to clear any blinds and then immediately Earthshaker into the ground where you’re standing. The thief WILL come out of stealth at this point, at which point you will Backbreaker > Stagger > swap and start wrecking him with whatever auto you may be using. I personally use Axe/Shield + Hammer Knight’s gear in WvW on my Warrior, and I’m sure my Thief would have no chance against him ;-;

Berserker Stance is your friend.

Always AoE stun whenever you have the ability to, neglecting it is giving the Thief a free gank.

Cheers!

Zamiel.2791:

SharadSun.3089:

S/D thief has it a little easier I suppose. But Dancing Dagger is still woefully useless and entirely unused. If it had a Blind or a 1/4s Immobilize on it, though… I could see it being used quite widely.

Dude, if you honestly think DD has no use you are not using Thief to its potential. As far as P/D is concerned think a gap creator is really necessary for PvP.

Useless is the wrong word, maybe xD

But Cripple is such a common condition, and so easily applied by any other means. And the damage it deals is not worth 4 initiative.

I was thinking of making Sabot a self-knockback with a higher effect for 6 initiative, but I feel like a gap-opener really isn’t the P/D style. Stealthtanking is one of the few things that Thieves can actually do right, so having a gunbrawler-like melee gunner class wouldn’t be so bad IMO =)

Oooooh, I’d love this lots.

Even better? Make it scale with Power, not Healing.

Bacon Please.8407:

So after a long time of hating hardcore on thieves I have come to a conclusion. But lets get some background info first. My first class to 80 was Guardian, I play it as a tank. My second was Warrior set up for Solo Roaming in WvW. Warrior Has been my main ever since and have invested ~510g into gear, weapons, foods, buffs, etc. Warrior has been my favorite class after playing it and I do fairly well with the class. I rolled an engineer for farming and sPvP and it is amazing. Necro for wvw zerging. Mesmer for a little bit of everything. Then I rolled a thief.

For the longest time when I was playing a warrior I would complain “Oh these thieves are so kitten OP they give nothing up and get everything” “Stealth is OP” “Invisibiltiy>invulnerabilty” So after months of complaining I rolled a thief and now after getting decent at it I can say the following

1: Anyone who thinks Stealth is OP is a fool. You can still hit a thief and as most thieves are set up, it is probably going to do significant damage

2: Thieves are really good at killing players new to pvp and wvw who have no idea about stun breakers and dodging. Anyone with a decent level of experience can see what a thief is doing and can either run/counter.

3: Some builds you just can’t kill 1v1. Same goes for my warrior. I can run in very quickly . Sword/Shield +Gs and run out popping stunbreakers, endure pain and shield stance and get away with barely a dent in my 32k Health

4: A thief that drops you fast, drops even faster. What do most GC thieves have for health? 11k Health? With maybe 2100 armor. Can’t get more glassy.

5: Playing a thief really changes your outlook on how they operate. When everyone says Play one to Learn one, They really mean it. When I got to 80 on my thief and spent a hundred or so hours in WvW with it, I was able to get back to my warrior and I could SEE WITH MY OWN EYES exactly what the thief was going to do before they could. It was so predictable “Okay he is using D/D and just used Cloak and dagger, probably going for a backstab in 3,2,1… EVADE” What do you know, He missed and i stun locked him with a hammer.

I honestly feel silly for ever complaining about thieves. They are an annoyance at best for experiences players and really only kill people learning to get around WvW. So if you keep getting killed by thieves play one at level 80 for a few hours in WvW and see how hard it really is.

I love you so much right now you honestly have no idea

Zamiel.2791:

SharadSun.3089:

@Opener: I WOULD agree, if not for the fact that Shadow Strike offers absolutely nothing to any viable P/D build other than said gapcloser. The damage that a Rabid/Carrion/Rampager build can deal with the skill alone is either pitiful, or not worth spending the resources investing into. Besides, with Cloak and Dagger requiring a melee distance, the gap that Shadow Strike creates is actually detrimental to the playstyle.

If Pistol Mainhand was fixed we wouldn’t need another damage skill. Also the gap creation is very useful in both pvp and pve to get out of sticky situations(a 3 init cost would make it a lot more useful I admit). Getting close enough should never be an issue for thief due to the propensity of evades and gap closers we possess.

xD I guess I just hate having useless skills on my bar.

That’s the only reason that HGH and other builds are so good right now; every single skill is actually used. There’s no skill that goes unused with the most powerful builds in this game, and as a P/D Thief, literally all I would be able to do is press 5 > 1 > 5 > 1 > dodge > dodge > 5 > F. If I ever actually get the chance to press F, that is.

S/D thief has it a little easier I suppose. But Dancing Dagger is still woefully useless and entirely unused. If it had a Blind or a 1/4s Immobilize on it, though… I could see it being used quite widely.

Maybe it’s just me (I was arguing with a teammate earlier about this), but Thieves don’t seem the burning type to me. Confusion is a lot more in line with the thieves’ attrition-based pistol.

Just adding straight damage makes it a condition carry, but that niche is very much filled by the HGH Engineer. If we can offer something different, like the heavy ability to CC and whittle down the opponent with conditions that hit fast and hard, and punish the opponent for acting. Confusion is the single best candidate for that role.

Zamiel.2791:

Can’t tell if serious. . .

hurf

:B

@Roulette: It actually wouldn’t be an RNG, used properly xD you get the ability to deal high condition damage or increase your ability to deal direct damage, both in line with the P/D Rampager/Rabid meta. The added ability to cast a second Roulette would be a contest of skill; if the target knows to condition clear while the Thief is in stealth, then the chance of proccing the daze is reduced by a large amount. But if the Thief is smart with his timing, he can get a reliable daze + a lot of condition utility off reliably.

@Opener: I WOULD agree, if not for the fact that Shadow Strike offers absolutely nothing to any viable P/D build other than said gapcloser. The damage that a Rabid/Carrion/Rampager build can deal with the skill alone is either pitiful, or not worth spending the resources investing into. Besides, with Cloak and Dagger requiring a melee distance, the gap that Shadow Strike creates is actually detrimental to the playstyle.