Ok
(adding more for post minimum)
I know it’s a fact because I’ve played both games. Archaeology alone has more grind in it than this whole game and that actually provides useful things unlike a useless legendary skin.
You didn’t have to do Archeology at all. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to do it.
And if you haven’t played the latest expansion, honestly, you have zero idea what you’re talking about. Not an insult…just a point.
They have made it more accessible than ever because that’s what the vast majority of people want. Where they are succeeding and GW2 is failing, to be honest, is collectibles.
People go nuts for the pets that drop in the game, along with all the different mounts that can be had and interesting achievements. It’s created an entire subset of players who really don’t give a rip about raiding or having max-stat gear.
The pets in this game have to be bought, and the achievements, frankly, are lacking and uninteresting. Half the time I get one accidentally.
Again…I’m not advocating mounts in this game…I’m just giving an example.
You don’t need a legendary at all either. It’s even more useless than Archeology…..
Nope, you don’t.
But it’s what a good majority of people are going after, judging by these forums and the complaints about grinding.
Funny you only picked out that one single sentence in my post, though.
Sure. I just didn’t think there was anything to really do after completing all your missions. Sure there was grinding for the 15k armor and that stuff, but unless you were a serious PvP’er, there was…well…just farming to do. I just didn’t understand the point of farming in the game other than to amass gold.
I see, so you didn’t enjoy playing around with builds and gear? Yeah that’s a preference thing, most of my points would be irrelevant for you then.
What gear? All you had to do was buy it? And what was the point of playing around with builds in PvE?
That counts as gear too.
And personally, as a personal preference (emphasized in fear of making what I say sound like law), I liked playing with different builds. One day I could go as a Minion Master, the other I could go with Spiteful Spirit, just to name two of the more widely-used ones. That, to me, was fun. So as I said, the points in my OP are not relevant to you if this isn’t what you enjoy.
No offense OP. but it is relevant to anybody who plays this game. If you do not want input from gw2 players, go to the gw1 forums.
Gee, you misunderstand me.
Of course I appreciate Shootsfoot’s point. I’m saying that I have my preferences, he has his. Which I understand and respect. And because he has different preferences, my opinions for replayability would not mean anything to him, because HIS kind of replayable differs from MY kind of replayable.
I just don’t get some people.
Sure. I just didn’t think there was anything to really do after completing all your missions. Sure there was grinding for the 15k armor and that stuff, but unless you were a serious PvP’er, there was…well…just farming to do. I just didn’t understand the point of farming in the game other than to amass gold.
I see, so you didn’t enjoy playing around with builds and gear? Yeah that’s a preference thing, most of my points would be irrelevant for you then.
What gear? All you had to do was buy it? And what was the point of playing around with builds in PvE?
That counts as gear too.
And personally, as a personal preference (emphasized in fear of making what I say sound like law), I liked playing with different builds. One day I could go as a Minion Master, the other I could go with Spiteful Spirit, just to name two of the more widely-used ones. That, to me, was fun. So as I said, the points in my OP are not relevant to you if this isn’t what you enjoy.
So, in other words, I shouldn’t have looked at a forum post and answered it with a counter opinion.
I’ll have to remember that.
Ah, here we go….
You opened the door :P
Nope. I offered an opinion of a game.
Now you’re going to whip out your kitten to as if it’s a legitimate argument.
Buh-bye
The original poster offered a full detailed explanation of his point of view, the atleast you can do is match it with an argument that is equally substantial in information.
And what was your counter-argument?
“Show me your hall of monuments.”
Seriously?
I know it’s a fact because I’ve played both games. Archaeology alone has more grind in it than this whole game and that actually provides useful things unlike a useless legendary skin.
You didn’t have to do Archeology at all. There was absolutely no reason whatsoever to do it.
And if you haven’t played the latest expansion, honestly, you have zero idea what you’re talking about. Not an insult…just a point.
They have made it more accessible than ever because that’s what the vast majority of people want. Where they are succeeding and GW2 is failing, to be honest, is collectibles.
People go nuts for the pets that drop in the game, along with all the different mounts that can be had and interesting achievements. It’s created an entire subset of players who really don’t give a rip about raiding or having max-stat gear.
The pets in this game have to be bought, and the achievements, frankly, are lacking and uninteresting. Half the time I get one accidentally.
Again…I’m not advocating mounts in this game…I’m just giving an example.
It should also be known that I really like both games and I play both games.
(edited by Shootsfoot.9276)
Ah, here we go….
You opened the door :P
Nope. I offered an opinion of a game.
Now you’re going to whip out your kitten as if it’s a legitimate argument.
Buh-bye
Ah, here we go….
It’s as if I’m on the WoW forums….“Your opinion doesn’t count, bro, your arena rating is only 1200”
You know for a fact it has 100x the grind as this game.
I love people who make up statistics to try to make their opinion fact.
There’s over 2000 posts about this same crap.
I’m so tired of this.If you don’t like the game leave.
So why did you open the thread?
No seriously….why did you open it?
Sure. I just didn’t think there was anything to really do after completing all your missions. Sure there was grinding for the 15k armor and that stuff, but unless you were a serious PvP’er, there was…well…just farming to do. I just didn’t understand the point of farming in the game other than to amass gold.
I see, so you didn’t enjoy playing around with builds and gear? Yeah that’s a preference thing, most of my points would be irrelevant for you then.
What gear? All you had to do was buy it? And what was the point of playing around with builds in PvE?
I didn’t think GW1 was replayable at all, to be honest. Not saying you’re wrong. Just saying there are different views.
Could you provide us with some insight on why you think so? Inquiring minds want to know.
I too would like details on the subject’s point of view. The amount of variables in the previous game allowed for tremendous amounts of replayability if a person chose to well.. play the game.
So, because I didn’t like PvP, I chose not to “play the game?”
If you say so.
This tired straw man again (the whole “You want everything for nothing” nonsense)? Really? Haven’t we moved passed simply regurgitating this same ridiculously pathetic straw man yet?
If you love grinding so much, WoW exists. Go play it instead of trying to ruin this game.
LOL…WoW doesn’t have NEAR the grinding GW2 has at the moment.
Not even close to being true. Can you at least try?
With somebody that isn’t playing WoW? Probably not, but believe what you want to believe.
I can tell you that if I wanted to get into serious raiding, it wouldn’t take more than a month or two to get fully-geared.
How long will it take to get a legendary in this game? Longer than that, I can tell you. Especially with current drop rates.
(edited by Shootsfoot.9276)
Sure. I just didn’t think there was anything to really do after completing all your missions. Sure there was grinding for the 15k armor and that stuff, but unless you were a serious PvP’er, there was…well…just farming to do. I just didn’t understand the point of farming in the game other than to amass gold.
I didn’t think GW1 was replayable at all, to be honest. Not saying you’re wrong. Just saying there are different views.
That being said, farming IS grind, IMO. And farming is fun. It’s just not fun in this game because all you are doing out there is selling stuff or salvaging stuff. No chance of an upgrade to drop (ok, maybe an exotic, but I have a better shot at winning the Powerball), no chance of a collectible pet to drop, no chance of anything but vendor-trash and crafting materials.
It’s pretty boring to me, to be honest.
(edited by Shootsfoot.9276)
This tired straw man again (the whole “You want everything for nothing” nonsense)? Really? Haven’t we moved passed simply regurgitating this same ridiculously pathetic straw man yet?
If you love grinding so much, WoW exists. Go play it instead of trying to ruin this game.
LOL…WoW doesn’t have NEAR the grinding GW2 has at the moment.
Well considering the nose dive the population took I think it’s safe to agree most think it’s a bad game.
The classes are incredibly shallow btw. It’s such a giant step backwards for the genre, it’s like mmo lite. There are no rotations because the classes are too dumbed down to have one.
I have a level 90 hunter and a level 90 paladin in WoW.
Those rotations (priorities, now) aren’t exactly rocket science.
Guild War’s 2 isn’t exactly rocket science either.
Even the arguably hardest classes to play (engi and ele) aren’t overly difficult just require a lot of button presses to achieve the same thing other classes can with 6 buttons.
Never said it was. Was saying the “rotations” in “other MMOs” aren’t all that deeper. Sure you may get a bunch of different spells, but in the end, it all boils down to 4 or 5 spell rotations.
2, if you’re an arcane mage. :P
@shootsfoot
YOU need to understand YOUR view is also irrelevant seeing what you tried to do to those two folks. YOU need to understand that MMO does not mean people have to group, it is a choice, the same goes for soloing. If you need your hand held because you are incapable of performing simple or complex tasks by yourself or the game has a certain group mechanic then that is your choice, do not ever state MMO means the game is all about grouping…it is not.
MMO means, and this is to educate you, a game with masses of people online doing what they enjoy…….not doing what you think they should shootsfoot.
LOL…ok.
At least now I can see why you do most things solo.
Well considering the nose dive the population took I think it’s safe to agree most think it’s a bad game.
The classes are incredibly shallow btw. It’s such a giant step backwards for the genre, it’s like mmo lite. There are no rotations because the classes are too dumbed down to have one.
I have a level 90 hunter and a level 90 paladin in WoW.
Those rotations (priorities, now) aren’t exactly rocket science.
Its already been said but i’ll repeat it anyway.
People are not in those areas because they find the new dungeons fun. People have had that content for the last 3+ months. Something new is in the game thus people switch to it. Few people are in the coasts after the weekend because it is boring. I cant speak for everyone but i find the mists more fun than grinding karma in orr in a mindless zerg.
End point, people are still here…they’re just doing new things because theyr’e fun.
Only thing i agree is that the old content be reworked but they already said they plan to do that over the next few months.
Well-said.
WvWvW, and SPvP/TPvP alone is far more fun and exciting then any lame dungeon or raid could ever be, and they are the “Endgame”.
So if you Don’t like these things go play WoW Tera or Aion. The rest of us came here to replace DAoC and Guild Wars, and GW2 has succeded in this for most of us.
Again everyone else can feel free to leave, there are other games you know.
I love these kinds of posts. “This is my opinion, those who don’t agree should quit the game now.”
I have news, friend…you have no frigging CLUE why “the rest of us” came to this game.
[Edit]
[Edited by CC: Sentence removed, offending]
(edited by Moderator)
ANET needs to make the game solo friendly. Maybe they should look at GW1 for inspiration.
In what ways is GW2 NOT solo-friendly?
Dungeons.
I just don’t understand the mentality of people buying a game marketed as a massively multi-player online game and then complaining you can’t do everything solo.
You can only call this MMO if there’s more than 1 player per zone for most zones. If they delete all the maps in PVE and keep Lion’s Arch only then yes, I agree it can be called MMO and you don’t have the need to do anything solo.
This is an MMO. Doesn’t matter what you want to call it.
Your bitterness has nothing to do with the genre, sorry.
“The MMO market is so competitive these days. GW1 was successful because it targeted a niche market. GW2 prior to 11/16 appeared to target a niche. Marketing your endgame approach as “Endgame Reimagined” sent a clear signal that this would not be the same old same old.”
Why would you ever cater a MMO to a “niche” market. They are in it to make a lot of money. Rehashing GW1 was not going to make them that money.
wrong, niche market CAN make money if you are different than the other run-of-the-mill games, if people wanted dungeon and gear grinds, there are plenty out there (RIFT, WOW, etc) besides GW2. Anet made a wrong choice, plain and simple.
Just because somebody’s opinion doesn’t match yours does not automatically make that opinion wrong.
Yeah, I was going to quote that, but I figured somebody would nit-pick because of the “citation needed” footnote in there in the Gaining and Losing Aggro section.
Yup no citation, but those rules definitely seem to play a significant factor in holding aggro. If a mob doesn’t have any weird/random mechanics then I usually hold aggro by simply being closest to the target and doing good sustained damage. I’ll lose it to someone else if I dodge roll out and starting healing. I rarely ever have aggro in ranged boss fights.
Yeah, that’s how I see it, too. Which makes me wonder if a purely defensive build isn’t all that great in the first place since damage is a key factor in keeping their attention.
ANET needs to make the game solo friendly. Maybe they should look at GW1 for inspiration.
In what ways is GW2 NOT solo-friendly?
Dungeons.
I just don’t understand the mentality of people buying a game marketed as a massively multi-player online game and then complaining you can’t do everything solo.
I will say one thing that I think would improve GW2 world participation greatly, and that would be vanity drops…mini-pets, town-clothes…whatever. People love collecting these things. People in my guild in WoW go nuts over pets and rare mounts. I would think it would be the same here.
Meh, I don’t really want mounts in this game. I don’t think they are needed.
Wish you’d read my entire post just once.
I will say one thing that I think would improve GW2 world participation greatly, and that would be vanity drops…mini-pets, town-clothes…whatever. People love collecting these things. People in my guild in WoW go nuts over pets and rare mounts. I would think it would be the same here.
And no, I am NOT advocating mounts in this game…just an example.
Well, I play both GW2 and WoW and in my mind they compliment each other nicely. That being said, if I didn’t have a good core of friends in each, I would play neither.
To me the game is all about friendships built in it.
Yeah, I was going to quote that, but I figured somebody would nit-pick because of the “citation needed” footnote in there in the Gaining and Losing Aggro section.
They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.
No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.
GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.
Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.
Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.
The most obvious possible interpretation of “the whole game is endgame” is this: Level-80 activities are not fundamentally different from activities at level 1-79. It’s doing dynamic events, exploring, WvW, dungeons throughout.
Which is just the game itself. Look, I’m not looking for end-game. Don’t care, got plenty to do in this game. What I’m saying (and those of you who choose to put words in my mouth in this thread may want to pay attention here) is even mentioning the word end-game in their marketing was a bad idea.
There is no end-game. The entire game is not end-game. It is THE game.
They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.
No, what you (and Ned Stark) need to do, is accept that ArenaNet built a game around their idea of an end game, not yours.
GW2’s end game is exactly as advertised.
It’s just not what you think an end game should be.
By saying the end game doesn’t exist, you’re saying the entire game does not exist – ridiculous.You bought the wrong game if you thought it would be otherwise, despite all the marketing. If what you wanted/expected was the same end game as <insert whatever game here>, then you should be playing <insert whatever game here>.
Wow, you may want to switch to decaf.
Nowhere did I sit here and say I demand end game. I said calling an elephant a deer doesn’t make it a deer.
How do you hold aggro?
From what I’ve noticed, mobs and bosses tend to aggro on players based on armor type because they almost always go for the Heavy Armor players first.
There’s no real “aggro” system in the traditional sense. Some bosses tend to pick targets randomly while others will stay on me the entire fight.
I’ve noticed if I pull first and have a mob on me, as soon as our high-output dps starts hitting him, he instantly peels off me and heads for that person and essentially stays with them the entire fight and I have zero chance getting his attention again. I was assuming it’s because I have such a defensive build and throw out relatively low damage.
How do you hold aggro?
Last I checked (and I could be wrong), holding aggro is NOT a thing in GW2.
There isn’t really a “tanking” role. Tanking itself is something everyone shares throughout most fights.
The only choice you have in that is whether to tank more or less.You do that be deciding to be melee or ranged. The OP’s build uses a mace, so obvious, he’s willing to tank more.
The idea being that if you’re melee, then you’re more likely to aggro mobs first and grab their attention more often – And thus, taking away some of the pressure off the rest of the group.But each group member still has to handle their own survival because, sooner or later, the bosses will give them a turn to feel the heat. And there’s no peeling the mobs off, just gotta wait for the AI to switch its attention again. :P
I’m not saying WoW-type aggro, but there are definite aggro tables in the game, generating threat is the main way to do it and from what I see the higher the damage output, the more threat generated.
I don’t believe the threat is random as I have been in Orr and seen champions train on one single person the entire fight as they kited him.
I got to lvl 80 the first time with natural progression through the story ie: I played my story mission when i was close to the recomended level and otherwise stuck around the green marker gaining the extra levels needed playing in the zones the story took me to.
I didn’t do a lot of exploring outside of where I was prodded to go. I ended up lvl 80 at fort trinity with 36% map completion. I still had tons to do.
Hence, why the title says wrong impression instead of correct impression.
I’m not sure how there is this much failure to communicate. Why are people trying to “correct” me by telling me there’s more to do after you hit 80? At no point have I stated that there is nothing to do at 80, and in fact, I’ve actually said exactly the opposite.
I’m saying that the level range present in the game does a disservice at relaying the “Endgame Re-imagined” premise.
Because you said this:
In Guild Wars 2, the leveling curve is something like 95% of the game. By the time you hit 80, you have one zone left. This seems to equate to people rush to level 80, then complain that there is nothing to do…after all, there is only 5% of the game geared for level 80s.
If anything, the leveling in this game is too fast because I wasn’t close to half done with the lower level zones and I was already to 80.
I do understand where your failure to communicate comes from. Perhaps it was poor wording on my part, but your confusion comes from thinking that by leveling curve I mean time it takes to level.
MY failure to communicate?
I think that’s part of an event in that area, isn’t it?
I got to lvl 80 the first time with natural progression through the story ie: I played my story mission when i was close to the recomended level and otherwise stuck around the green marker gaining the extra levels needed playing in the zones the story took me to.
I didn’t do a lot of exploring outside of where I was prodded to go. I ended up lvl 80 at fort trinity with 36% map completion. I still had tons to do.
Hence, why the title says wrong impression instead of correct impression.
I’m not sure how there is this much failure to communicate. Why are people trying to “correct” me by telling me there’s more to do after you hit 80? At no point have I stated that there is nothing to do at 80, and in fact, I’ve actually said exactly the opposite.
I’m saying that the level range present in the game does a disservice at relaying the “Endgame Re-imagined” premise.
Because you said this:
In Guild Wars 2, the leveling curve is something like 95% of the game. By the time you hit 80, you have one zone left. This seems to equate to people rush to level 80, then complain that there is nothing to do…after all, there is only 5% of the game geared for level 80s.
If anything, the leveling in this game is too fast because I wasn’t close to half done with the lower level zones and I was already to 80.
It was said they were going to make it available by methods other than just running fractals.
So when people say “what do I do now that I have reached lvl 80”, I say “what do you want to do?”
The answer to the question apparently has been too hard for the community, and so now Anet deigned to supply it for us. It is now “get ascended eq. Then get more ascended eq, as they’ll be introduced. Then get level 90. Then repeat getting eq.”
This is not correct. Anet has admitted they made a mistake.
I don’t believe BGs were part of Vanilla WoW when it shipped.
That’s correct. BGs came later to the dismay of many like myself who preferred and still prefer open world pvp. It literally killed open world pvp. The addition of the pvp stat resilience t-bagged the remaining players who didn’t res fast enough.
Agreed. But that being said, as much as I like open world PvP, it was also ruined by the little no-life twits who enjoyed camping low-level players just to harass them. I never minded being ganked, sometimes the way it was done to me was hysterical. Res and off I go. I loved ganking others, too. But hit them once and be done with it.
Open-world PvP certainly has its downside, too.
While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.
It is often quoted… but it is not a cliche.
They said you were in the end game from level one. And they were right.
What’s “assinine”, is people who expected an “end game” to suddenly materialise once they reached level 80. An “end game” that was different to the game they’d been playing before reaching level 80.
Fine, call it what you want. Call an elephant a deer, I don’t care. Doesn’t make the elephant a deer.
Much as I love this game, the entire game is not “endgame.”
They just need to say there is no endgame other than farming and grinding and be honest about it.
Well sushi All i can say is no mmo starts with 100’s of pvp maps. It will take them time so until then you should just figure out how to play the balance issues in your favor. or do like i say in an article a while back create an all ranger guild and impersonate team rocket.
Yes obviously WoW does have quite a bit of development time under its belt. Which is why I’m being lenient on GW2. However WoW (other MMOs as well) did ship with varied objective based maps aka CTF, Siege (you could argue WvWvW fills that niche pretty well) and yes the 3 cap nodes.
I don’t believe BGs were part of Vanilla WoW when it shipped. Think they came later.
I’m getting high-level drops in lower areas. Not as often as the high-level areas, but I’m still getting them.
I think the issue is because most people are used to gearing up for somekind of content in other MMOs. However GW2 literally has no endgame. None. The only thing you have to do is 100 percent the map OR go for a legendary. You can grind for gear but for what? Just to look cool?
Most people were disappointed by the lack of actual content to complete at level 80.
I know this is a kinda crazy idea but why not have a life whilst you play a game on the side? You say GW2 has no endgame, WRONG. The whole game is endgame. Designed to be fun from lvl 1. I wonder what makes running the same dungeon dozens and dozens of times= a fix to GW2? To actually think that is completely asinine.
While I see what you’re saying this “the whole game is endgame” cliche is over used and inaccurate marketing mumbo jumbo and saying it is just as asinine.
When all you really have to do is just farm gold and buy your top-level gear from an auction house, that’s not an “endgame.”
Explain to me how “getting to 80” is “95% of the game.”
There was one level 80 zone.
So what? The way this game is designed 80 is really just a number.
The problem is all the good gear can just be crafted. There’s no real reason to go out in the world and hope something good drops because it’s not going to happen. All you have to do is run a zerg for a bit, cash in the loot, and buy the gear.
If some of that gear were only available in world drops and dungeon drops, then I think you’d see a lot more exploration going on.
This game does not have a long leveling curve.
Seeing as how getting to 80 is 95% of the game, it is pretty long.
Explain to me how “getting to 80” is “95% of the game.”
You can do 20 levels just sitting in a city and crafting. “Getting to 80” is an indirect result of exploring, anyway. There is no real reason to rush to 80 in this game.
There is no real reason to rush to 90 in WoW, either. But people still do.
This game does not have a long leveling curve.
Ok i know i may take a lot rage on this, but i really wish someone to explain to me, why are legendary items, legendary.
The way i see it, except SPs, karma and map 100%, that actually take some to to gain and are making player to spend some time on it, other requirements are just pure fail.
All of this “hard to obtain” items are closely related to, gem store. What is so legendary in that ?
What say u ?
That is how this game is designed. Look at the outrage when ascended gear came out and it couldn’t just be crafted.
It’s not “legendary” at all.
It’s just a label.