I am truly amazed at the quality of their service considering the immense volume they push. I’m sure there’s a stat somewhere about “x number of tickets submitted every hour on average”. I think that number would shock most of us.
Well done Anet team!
Filter for race/animal
I agree this needs attention and it probably is coming. In the mean time if you can’t wait, wiki it.
Am I too late to win a Llama?
I block and report those guys every time. They’re just annoying. I feel like anyone that falls for that stuff are the same people that fall for credit card scams elsewhere in life.
Go to your bank. Then select “Miniatures” at the left. That will help show what you are missing a little better.
Yeah, that’s it. They’re going to let players that want to go to Elona. Then they can never come back to Tyria.
I guess, but 10g/hour just isn’t sustainable for most people. It’s SOOOOO boring.
I think what this all boils down to is perception. We can throw facts at it all day, it still doesn’t impact the experience that so many have had. I understand waiting for a drop, or possibly seeing what changes announcements at PAX will bring. I’m interested to see what announcements will be made. But if they don’t address this, it still takes away from long term people’s experience. It’d be nice if there was some combination of things…like if you could craft one precursor once you’ve logged x number of hours in the game or something.
Hi River,
Is this what you are making? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elegant_Weaponsmith%27s_Backpack
This is on the forum already (in the link above). The devs are aware. Here’s the best thing in that thread above. Note the views on the left and the customizable options.
Even worse, moving some things off the exclusive Gold Standard will reduce the attraction of gems to gold conversion, which very likely is a sizable portion of the gem store’s revenue.
This is actually the real problem – at least in how I see things.
You see the people at Anet are just that – they’re people.
People tend to make cautious decisions especially when it comes to things that can have major consequences on their general well being.
Cutting down gem store revenue ( an immediate effect of OP’s suggestion) would probably be felt closer than the possible revenue they could obtain if player satisfaction rates go up.
And even then – who can guarantee that more satisfied players will pay more? Or that the revenue will go up at any point?
Ultimately Anet is running a business- the kind where work goes in and money comes out.
Most of the decisions ( if not all of them) surrounding the game will ultimately boil down to : will it make us more money or even worse – what if it makes us less.A lot of people quit the game because the loot drops are terrible, getting the item they want is virtually impossible without mindless farming, or a myriad of other reward-related gripes
And I think a lot of people still play because of the grind and the time gating. I certainly wouldn’t be logging in every day if there wasn’t some time gated content that I had to do on that specific day.
Possibly a lot of the players currently playing are feeling a similar pressure to log in daily and do this or that.This constant, daily exposure to the game has a wide range of beneficial effects for Anet’s game ranging from having a well populated game to exposing people more often to gem store offers and much more.
Lots have quit the game because of rewards and time gating but I fear that a lot more players are sticking to it specifically because of these aspects. I know a lot of players that play every day and keep playing because they want to make things easier for themselves when new skins/weapons/etc come out. Not because they particularly feel like doing it on that particular day/week/month.
Apart from these aspects – I agree with the OP.
Many posters have suggested parts of what he’s saying in one form or another for a long time. He also brings up a lot of things that have become apparent to veterans and invested players.Either way – the article is really well written and the solutions could work but ultimately it’ll come down to Anet’s decision and their willingness to risk profit for player satisfaction.
Best response in this thread. It’s worth reading if you glazed over it.
Always start with a warrior. Get used to it and then figure out the differences from there. That’s just my process though.
I also have a Guardian…it plays more fun, but it definitely helped me to start as a Warrior.
Nope, haven’t read it and probably won’t. That’s a LOT of text to read. But whatever it says, I agree that the loot system sucks.
You only need to look at EOTM to realise the better loot is in wiping enemy zergs rather than capturing stuff – and that’s not fun when you’re outnumbered by a ratio of 10:1 and Overgrowth camp your keep and make sure they farm the living bags out of your sorry gluteus maximus.
Also, the mob mentality there is either 1) Kill players or 2) Karma train.
What I’d like to see is a guaranteed loot system where after X kills/captures/whatevers, you receive a chest. Similarly to the sPvP reward track. EOTM/WvW desperately needs one of those.
It also needs an update to the badge of honor rewards. I have 50k now and I still haven’t seen anything of value or worth to spend them on. Can’t we get some nice exclusive WvW/EOTM skins? Dungeons get them. PvP gets them. And don’t tell me those pathetic skins that cost 10 and 15 badges are REAL skins. They don’t even deserve the title of a skin tbh.
Agreed. +1
All of the Legendaries. If it doesn’t look dumb, it has a weird effect. If it doesn’t have a weird effect it has a weird after effect. If it doesn’t have a weird after effect it has a weird sound effect. None of them are worth my time.
For your consideration: The Flameseeker Prophecies.
It’s the only Legendary that doesn’t have those things. However, it’s a friggin’ shield.
:D
“YOU GOT CHOCOLATE ON MY PEANUT BUTTER!”
“YOU GOT PEANUT BUTTER ON MY CHOCOLATE!”
erndan — I’m sorry to hear about the health challenges you’re dealing with, and I do understand your input about the new daily system. I respect that you are not stating an opinion about the outcome or the rewards, but solely about your ability to do the dailies on a regular basis in any form. (I also like that players have made constructive suggestions that may aid the situation for you.)
I am going to share your feedback when I update update the overall report I sent to the development team prior to the holidays. Yours is an unusual case, but I think your comments are relevant to the discussion.
I wish you all the best for a very speedy and full recovery!
THIS is why I love the GW2 team. First Class response, Gaile! Thank you!!!
Oh I can’t wait to read the responses.
Ugh GW1…
11,000 hours, 50/50, everything… hated the game after two years. It was too easy and simple for my tastes
. But if you need anything let me know cuz I got stuff!
CAN I HAZ UR STUFZ?!
lol…jk
They never said absolutely
13:37 (not leetspeak, a timestamp.)
As to the update, as mentioned in my previous post I am glad that the system has been delayed (hopefully to get it right).
seem to me like absolutely in this case was referring to having support for precursor crafting not that they’re release it absolutely in 2013.
Transcript:
“the other thing you will see this year is the ability to build precursors. It’s not going to be next week, it will probably be you know as we get closer to the end of the year but we’re absolutely going to have that support so that you can make your own precursor and feel like you’re making progress putting one of those together. Very likely its going to be through crafting we haven’t completely finalized that but I think that’s more then likely where that’s going to drop in. "
still kudos for tracking down that interview its something very hard to do ! I am impressed.
I dunno it’s been 18 months since they said it was coming in 2013, and 9 months since they last gave us an update…
I mean the entire game was built in 5 years… they have added staff since then, and it has been 26 months since they first said they were looking into solutions for precursors… They could be in beta of Precursor wars 3 by now if they made an entire new game of it…
I read this and immediate this is what my gut said: they’re completely re-doing crafting like they did to the wardrobe and the wallet.
I have a feeling that this whole thing will be addressed in April and will be announced at PAX. This gives me hope.
Isn’t that those electric balls added with that past LS episode? Gee, I forget their name.
My money is on this. It’s probably like, Spectral Flame or something. They pop up out of nowhere and you can’t really do anything about them.
You guys mean this? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foefire_Cleansing#Achievements
—> Improved GW2 Wallet | Missing Wardrobe Skins | Ascended vs Exotic | Explorer Guide
(edited by SonOfJacob.7396)
The Flameseeker Prophecies.
It’s the best-looking Legendary, but shields are basically useless.
You need WAY more detail…is this even in PvE? What map…what rock…what’s the closest waypoint?
For what it is worth I am a casual player and I do have an interest in legendary weapons. Its not an immediate interest because I dont lime the current skins but have hope that future options will better suit my taste.
For this part, I think I became confused because when I think “hard core vs. casual”, I tend to think that hard core focuses their efforts on it, rather than just working toward it. So perhaps that’s just differences in perspective…which I’m fine with. In this sense, I “have an interest” in Legedaries too…just not in the immediate sense.
Second, any time you attempt to lump tens of thousands of different, unique, individuals together and claim that you (the generic “you” not you personally) know what they all want without ever making an effort to poll them, and without them ever expressing that they all want the same thing, you are going to be wrong.
For this part, I agree – it’s a data required statement. The only part that I was expressing my response to was my perception of “hard core vs. casual”. In that context, what I said makes sense. But understanding now that we were coming from two different angles, I understand what you’re saying – and you are right in the context you’re speaking from.
32/50 and working toward GWAMM slowly. Here’s another link for those interested:
http://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support
You plah with some specific casual players, not with casual players in general.
The casual players with whom you play may not care about legendaries but what about the ones that want a bow that shoots rainbows to go with the new armor set they just dyed to match ?
With respect, this does not make any sense. Technically, all casual players are “specific”. So making a general statement about them shouldn’t apply any more to anything you should be able to say about them any more than what I should be able to say about them.
The person to whom I originally responded indicated that he was referring to casual players as a whole, not a relatively few casual playing individuals that he knew personally and whose preferences he could knowledgeably speak of. You said that he was right.
If I claim that all casual players want legendaries (because I personally know some that do) I would be every bit as incorrect as was the individual I originally quoted.
If you’re talking about getting a true sample size, sure. But you aren’t claiming to know ANY casual players, nor be one yourself, rendering your statements just as invalid. And it’s not KNOWABLE whether or not my statements are wrong – you’re basically just saying the sample size is too small to confirm or deny what has been said. I’m saying you have NO sample size. At least I’m backing up what I’m saying with some kind of experience.
I think the quiver was available around Halloween?
Yup. And I bought it then. It first came out with Flame and Frost I believe.
You plah with some specific casual players, not with casual players in general.
The casual players with whom you play may not care about legendaries but what about the ones that want a bow that shoots rainbows to go with the new armor set they just dyed to match ?
With respect, this does not make any sense. Technically, all casual players are “specific”. So making a general statement about them shouldn’t apply any more to anything you should be able to say about them any more than what I should be able to say about them.
But the truly casual crowd doesn’t care about precursors or legendaries..
Thats not a call you get to make.
Legendaries can be just as much about whether or not a given weapon skin goes with a casual player’s, “lets play dress up dollies on line,” as it is about prestige, stat switching, etc.
I can verify that his statement is accurate to my experience. I’m casual from some perspectives, but dedicated in others. For example:
- I’ve got the Exotic Hunter Title and 15.5k AP
- I only have one Legendary (Flameseeker Prophecies – I got it b/c it’s the best-looking to me)
- I’ve done all dungeon paths except Arah
- I have 2 characters with completed personal story and 100% map completion
- I have 5 sets of Ascended armor
- I still can’t quite beat Liadri so I don’t have the mini nor The Blazing Light title (but I’ll get it next time, I’m sure)
I’m in two guilds: CERN (a huge WvW guild) and RSD (a tiny, 10-person guild made up of people I know in real life that I’ve been playing online games with for almost a decade). In CERN, the experience/knowledge curve is wide. In RSD, the guys play a little, but most of them don’t have more than 7k AP, and probably none will ever have the Exotic Hunter or The Blazing Light title. Only one other had a Legendary, but he sold it for profit. He’s the only other one in the guild close to my AP.
The point is, I play with casual players. TaCktiX is right – they aren’t concerned with Legendaries.
Might I suggest either taking the demand debate to pm or making a demand thread? It’s kinda taking over the thread.
I was going to say we should create a poll to determine who has the bigger something-or-other. LOL. Well, at least the thread didn’t die.
My original thought was that the article in the OP had some interesting points – specifically about how the economy could be altered to favor more fun and intuitiveness…less Excel based analysis. I’m a data analyst in my day job…I really don’t want to do that in the evening as well. It’s not that I can’t, it’s that doing so takes SIGNIFICANT time and analysis investment…which, as I recall from my time being a kid, isn’t the point of a video game.
And believe me, I understand the prices of just about everything are based on Precursor/Legendary acquirement. I just think there’s a better way to run the in-game economy, but I don’t know what that is. Kudos to the guy that has to deal with all of this – sorry buddy, but I wouldn’t want your job.
Supply and demand. There are only two rules. I hope people get that.
1) If supply is greater than demand*, then the price will decrease.
2) If demand* is greater than supply, then the price will increase.
- demand defined as people ACTUALLY purchasing at whatever the price is
The thread wasn’t about supply and demand. It was about reorienting how currencies are used from a game design perspective.
A willingness to buy doesn’t equate to an actual purchase.
Lets consider 5 people. One person will pay 5 gold, another 4 gold, another 3, etc.
So we have 5 people and a price range from 1g to 5g.
What should the items be sold at?
3 gold.
Why?
If they sell it for 5g, only one person will buy it for that much and all they will get is 5g.
If they sell it for 1g, all 5 will buy it and they will only get 5g.
If they sell it for 3g, 3 people will buy it for a total of 9g.So to maximize revenue they sell it for 3g. But what happens when they do this? The person only willing to pay 1g and the person only willing to pay 2g don’t buy it. They don’t buy it but their existence, their willingness to pay a price for it, contributes to the demand of it.
Now those who will not buy it no matter the price, they don’t have a willingness to buy and do not contribute to the demand of it.
Legendary gear is the BiS, with unique visuals, and automatically upgrades to match BiS if ANet ever decides to come out with a new teir above ascended. I can guarantee you there is a very high demand for them. Almost everyone would be willing to pay some amount of gold for one.
The problem with Legendary gear is the cost to make one. The cost to make one is high enough that it’s hardly profitable if at all. Now I’m talking economic cost and economic profit. For the time it takes to make one and sell it, if you spend that same time just playing a good way to make gold, you will make the same amount of gold in the end.
Why is it like this? Well, the cost to make one will set a floor. People won’t sell for less than this floor. If it sold for less than the cost to make one, people would stop making them to sell and supply would go down. Price would go up to match the cost. This creates a minimum price which most people are not will to pay. Most people simply can’t afford it.
Lets look back at the 5 person example above. What if the item has a cost of 3g to make? Now what price will it sell for?
Answer is 3g.
Why?
This may seem wrong at first. If it cost 3g to make and they sell for 3g, they are not making a profit. You would think that it should be 4g. After all they would sell 2 at that price and make a 2g profit. Well, if they sell one for 5g they will make the same profit. The difference is between an economic cost/profit vs an accounting cost/profit. Continuing to sell for 3g may not give them an economic profit but they still may be making an accounting profit.
Also, if it sold for an economic profit, more people would gravitate to it so they too can get their share of the profit. This increases supply and increases competition. So we go with the person selling an item that cost 3g to make at 5g. They only sell one and make 2g profit. Someone else comes along and sells theirs for 4g, undercutting the first guy. Well that guy that is willing to pay 5g will buy it for 4g instead (saving 1g) and the person only willing to spend 4g will buy it for that much. Now the 2g profit goes to this other person. So the first person drops and sells for 3g. They are not making an economic profit anymore but it was necessary to keep making an accounting profit. The second person won’t undercut back below 3g because the profit is less than the cost and they can make more of an accounting profit elsewhere. They can either match the price or drop out.
Price will move toward cost and the more competitive the market, the more this is true. Profit has more to do with the type of market. Monopoly vs oligopoly vs perfect competition. Markets that see the highest profit are monopolies while markets that see no profit is the perfectly competitive one. In GW2, no one has a monopoly. No one has control on any item. It would require sole control of a resource.
This sounds right…but it’s why I think people that have an issue with it “have an issue with it”. It’s so non-intuitive. The average player doesn’t want to think this much, even if it results in a Legendary.
The first thought that came to my mind was how fun it was to unlock all those weapon and armor skins when the wardrobe first came out…unfortunately, that’s pretty much gone now because the drop table doesn’t include many skins it could (I’m excluding the obvious like gemstore, dungeon, PvP, and karma/badge skins).
Think about it if ALL the gemstore items where actuall ingame earnable skins with specific content to be matched for it. If all that DEVELOPMENT time was put into the game instead of the paywall.
I can imagine that. And i realise with that prospect, sadly, the game is pay2skin.
I could see them doing it with at least perhaps the lowest selling gemstore skins…like I will NEVER buy those stupid looking lawless ones…lol.
It’s like… I’m hungry, so I wander into a Chinese restaurant. But I don’t like Chinese, so I tell them to make me a pizza. The restaurant staff won’t make me a pizza because they aren’t an Italian restaurant. So the best thing to do is to yell at them until they make me a pizza because I’m the customer and it doesn’t matter what the staff wants, their job is to give me what I want.
I understand your point, but I think you underestimate how much some players have invested in THIS game…I put the original post because GW2 is all I play…and I’m not going anywhere no matter what (I’m not a griper, nor am I going to quit playing). I put a TON of real world money into the game and I’m NOT complaining. I just think the economy approach needs to change to make this game even MORE fun.
PS. No one “wanders” into a Chinese restaurant. I get the point you are trying to make, but you go to a restaurant for the food you want. A game is just…different.
The first thought that came to my mind was how fun it was to unlock all those weapon and armor skins when the wardrobe first came out…unfortunately, that’s pretty much gone now because the drop table doesn’t include many skins it could (I’m excluding the obvious like gemstore, dungeon, PvP, and karma/badge skins).
….where the hell is rytlock? Thats all teaser wise after a long break like this? More vines, most likely another sylvari for more sylvari angst? Thats it? Really? Come on where is the real teaser? Stop pulling my leg here.
This is all I really thought was incredibly cool from S2 LS. I’m looking forward to the reveal of a new profession of Ritualist and opening of the Underworld. Or, like most people already believe, a total flop.
But I can totally see Rurik too:
It totally looks like Saul to me:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Saul_D'Alessio
Screen cap: http://i.imgur.com/2tyEt5H.jpg
—> Improved GW2 Wallet | Missing Wardrobe Skins | Ascended vs Exotic | Explorer Guide
(edited by SonOfJacob.7396)
So, the more I think about the original article, the more I think it boils down to game philosophy:
Some are in the camp where the economics of a game should play a role in the game, the others feel the opposite. As odd as it may sound, it makes me think of FF7. I played that game like 8 times for HUNDREDS of hours (at the time, very uncommon). And I did it by learning to get efficient with in-game money by mastering the ALL materia (1.4 million gil each mastered sold). After selling like 3 mastered ALL materia, there was literally nothing in the game you couldn’t buy.
The point is, not having to worry about gold needed to buy literally ANYTHING freed me to enjoy the game much more. And skins are part of this game’s enjoyment. I’m not actually saying “make skins cheaper”, I’m saying re-think how economy should work in a game to make it even more enjoyable than it is now.
What I don’t get is why they remove an item like this and insist on keeping other, much uglier and lower selling items in the gem store…supply and demand doesn’t apply here…
I read everything since I posted last night and selected a few posts to highlight. Devs, if you’re reading this, I think the following quotes express what I’m trying to get at.
Demand is based on player’s affordability mainly about “needs” and desirability is based on “wants” thus players can sometimes purchase something beyond their means (in this case pulling out the real money cash).
This is a vanity-driven game, where aesthetic improvement is as heavily emphasized as vertical power growth in many other MMO’s. It doesn’t play the same role respective to gameplay, but that in no way means that it is trivial.
I have posted before about the economy, and I frequently disagree with the game’s economist.
[For the interested] The game is based, like the real (western) world, on the neo-classical idea. An approach so flawed it’s ridiculous we still hold on to it (even the classical approach is better, while you either love or hate Keyne’s modification to the approach).
Since the game imitates the real world system it’s already flawed. I think John finds it a great opportunity to model the neo-classical utopia (since we have virtually unlimited resources). He (John) has since acceded that the main issue of the game is the “players”; we simply aren’t economic, and so he wish to attempt teaching us to become more economic through the game by making the system more understandable (read previous posts by him and you’ll see he often mentions educating players).
(And sorry for being cynical.)
[For the uninterested] The game economy is terrible because players are too lazy or too dumb.
[Solution] John should read the article. Instead of being lazy and applying a neo-classical approach to the game, he should attempt to use some of his academic skills and develop his own approach which could possibly fix the game economy, and maybe also be applicable to real world economy. It’s hard, I know (I like tinkering with the issue myself). But for a guy like John that should be his job, and not what he currently does; helping devs patching leaks here and there when new resources and currencies are introduced.
The post linked to by the OP? I agree with it entirely. The gold standard needs to be moved away from, because it has become the game. Everything else?
I can flip on the market and buy a legendary faster than you, I or anyone will ever farm one up, hands down.
What else needs to really be said? Its all about gold.
Something the article author leaves out is that everything being tied to gold gives Anet a vested interest in keeping rare items extremely rare. Those who want to avoid the grind or time gating (precursor and ascended mats, respectively) can open their wallets to get around it.
All of it can be summed up as; “The in-game rewards are strictly limited to encourage customers to spend cash on gems to attain items that are otherwise beyond the reach of those who have less time to spend in-game than others.” Nothing more, nothing less.
It is attempting to garner gem sales at the expense of fun.
Thank you. I had this suspicion exactly, but lacked the ability to articulate it…I’m glad someone else could, which is actually what I was looking for with my first post.
However it’s not the items that are “beyond the reach of those who have less time to spend in-game than others” that encourages players to open their wallets, rather players spend cash to purchased items from Gem Store. Often times, golds are used to convert to gem to purchase these items.
So the idea that item rarity encourages players to spend cash is a bit far-fetched.
I’m pretty sure your last statement would require data to back up – and it would specifically have to demonstrate what percentage of real world money is spent converting gems bought with real world money to gold versus using gems bought with real world money to purchase items from the shop. (like is it 70% of real world money is used to convert to gold/30% of real world money is used to buy gem shop items, etc?)
The data, as far as I’m aware, is not available to the public. It may be able to be speculated, but I don’t think we can know that – but I’m sure Anet is very much aware of it.
…buying gold with real money via gem trade or going Full Metal Economist on the TP.
+10 billion for animated movie title reference with slight alteration to fit conversation.
Agreed. 100%.
Extra words added here because of forum requirement “Message Body length must at least be 15.”
Something the article author leaves out is that everything being tied to gold gives Anet a vested interest in keeping rare items extremely rare. Those who want to avoid the grind or time gating (precursor and ascended mats, respectively) can open their wallets to get around it.
All of it can be summed up as; “The in-game rewards are strictly limited to encourage customers to spend cash on gems to attain items that are otherwise beyond the reach of those who have less time to spend in-game than others.” Nothing more, nothing less.
It is attempting to garner gem sales at the expense of fun.
Thank you. I had this suspicion exactly, but lacked the ability to articulate it…I’m glad someone else could, which is actually what I was looking for with my first post.
Best tip: join a guild that has a ton of people in it that run dungeons…then ping guild chat when you want to run.
So yes, I know that the economists ‘try to regulate and streamline the economy to prevent game breaking imbalances and disruptive means of player manipulation’, yadda blah blah blah.
The fact remains that it wouldn’t be necessary if these games weren’t increasingly designed to be less and less game, more and more financial strategy and investment planning simulators.
I thought the point was that it IS increasingly becoming this way though (I re-read your post a multitude of times, but perhaps I didn’t track with it right).
—> Improved GW2 Wallet | Missing Wardrobe Skins | Ascended vs Exotic | Explorer Guide
(edited by SonOfJacob.7396)
Economists should never be involved in making anything fun for anyone but economists.
LOL – agreed, but only in the same way that lawyers can’t be trusted to get the truth out of every case.
Give kharma vendors items that actually make you want to use kharma, and let you pick the stats on kharma gear, because face it the 80 sets have absolutely craptastic stats.
Agree with this fully.
The dungeon track and the new dungeon collection “assasin’s accessory” is what get me to try pvp.
I think getting rid of the pvp booster and adding the dungeon track are probably the two best things done in PvP. I’d like to see a similar thing done for WvW.
Back on topic,
The time you start thinking about gold-per-hour is the time when GW2 (or any game) stopped being a game and becomes a job — then everything you do feels as grind.
That’s what I think is the most interesting parts of what the author is suggesting – flipping the process upside down to create more FUN in the acquiring of the rarer items.