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How about a proper team ladder

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

The last game I played had a proper ladder system in place where a group would enter the names of all players or guild and could only use those in the match. You could only challenge upward on the ladder and if the challenged team failed to play they swapped position on the ladder with the challenger. Games were held each night in prime time within a 3 hour window with the challenged team choosing the start time. It was immensely popular and kept full teams in PvP all of the time practising. Considering this game is called Guild Wars I’m surprised this doesn’t exist already. Gold or skins or whatever could be handed to the monthly winners.

Unranked matches quality

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

The point of unranked is to test new builds and strategies, hone your skills in a less stressful environment. Yeah I guess you get players not taking it seriously but then do we expect the games to be competitive? People who want competition can always open a private room and go at it with friends or guilds.

Matches defying odds.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Your experiences have been reproduced by many people, myself included. It’s just the way MMR works, if you have good MMR you get good teams vs bad, if you have bad MMR, you get bad teams vs good. The game punishes people severely for losing, this is by design there is no bug.

In no way does this explain what the OP is talking about. There are more complex problems within the algorithm than just new accounts having boosted MMR. I suspect that there is a flat out BUG in the system that is punishing accounts with more match history or plain and simple favoritism within the server.

It’s one of the two.

When I did this experiment and brought this topic up at the start of S3 I was told by almost everyone that this is just how it’s meant to be. Now we believe it’s a bug?
My main is over 3 years old, PvP from the start. You’re suggesting old accounts are affected?

Some sort of movement bug in ranked pvp

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

It’s an old bug thats brought up a lot in the forums. They just cant seem to sort it out. You can use a movement ability or an emote to break out of it. Dancing during combat is fun.

Matches defying odds.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Your experiences have been reproduced by many people, myself included. It’s just the way MMR works, if you have good MMR you get good teams vs bad, if you have bad MMR, you get bad teams vs good. The game punishes people severely for losing, this is by design there is no bug.

Season 3 ends, share your stats and feedback

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

No idea how/why people went above a few tiers in legend. Queues are far too lengthy.

Ye, this is a problem on EU as well. High legends have to camp the queue for a ridiculous amount of time before they get a game. Your Glicko rating is probably off the charts, so it’s even worse for you. While ranking up in Sapphire-Diamond my pops usually took between 4 to 8 minutes, with the odd queue lasting over 10 minutes. Personally I think that’s within a reasonable limit, though I would not exactly mind shorter pops.

How would you guys feel about Anet implementing a hard limit to the queue time, say, 15 minutes? At 15 minutes you would get a guaranteed game with the best player match found thus far, even though it would fall outside of the current match making parameters. So you’d get a game, but the MMR range of players might be all over the place. Would you prefer that over (theoretically) less volatile matches but longer queues?

With the way matchmaking is now there wouldn’t be much difference. Half my games are with people who seem to be using a PC for the first time in their life and accidentally ended up in GW PvP.

Season 3 ends, share your stats and feedback

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Started in Sapphire, finished in diamond. Never wanted the wings, just want fun, balanced and fair games. PvP has become painful and predictable.

Need clear-up on division crossing

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Yes, if you start in Sapphire in S4 you’re automatically done.

Early diamond?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

You’re not alone, when I first got to Diamond I thought I was in Emerald again. I couldn’t understand how some of these guys even got there.

The AFK problem.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

The problem is everyone thinks they are an expert on the rating system yet there is no feedback in game on what is going on behind the curtain.

This is from anet’s wiki on how matchmaking is done. It looks at more than just MMR.

The first phase, called filtering, gathers players based on their current MMR and Ladder Points. The primary purpose of this phase is to both reduce the number of players being considered for a match, and to ensure that the match is appropriate given each player’s skill level. Over time, padding is added to your player rating and ladder points. While this may decrease match quality, it helps ensure that outliers still receive matches.

The second phase of the algorithm is the scoring phase. During this phase each player is scored against every other player being considered for matchmaking. The metrics used during this phase include: rating, rank, party size, profession, ladder position, and dishonor. With each metric the system is looking for players that are as close as possible to the average of those already selected. The system also attempts to keep the number of duplicate professions to a minimum.

What you are failing to realize is while the system does not award you pips for keeping the match close, it is still factored into the rating system. The more matches you toss because you lost the first fight, or someone didn’t switch to ele the worse your future matches are going to be.

If they remove division system noone will play pvp at all. If you want get rid off afk players (i am one of them) make normal solo queue, and make system like in first season, when i had reasons to play even when i know i will lose. When i am losing now (and i know i will lose no matter what) i have no reasons to play.

I think you dont understand what i am talking about. MMR system doesnt care what was the score when you lost or won the game. Yes, the amount of points you will get for your mmr will depend on your chances to win/lose (you will get less if you are the favorite), but it doesnt matter, what the scroe will be. And in season 1 we had a pip system who cared about what was the score and your chances to win/lose the game. You could even get a point when you lost the game, if the score was ok.

Quoting that does nothing for anyone. I’m not going to side with the AFKers but nobody can disagree that season 3 matchmaking is pure garbage, whether you’re on the winning or losing end of win streaks or loss streaks.

The AFK problem.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Almost everyday now a new topic comes up asking for way to ban or report AFK players, but what really needs to be done is finding a way to prevent them in the first place.
These achievments and rewards were created to bring new players into the game and make PvP queues shorter with a larger player pool, but this pip system with the matchmaker has created a very negative environment.
Sitting in the lobby waiting for games is filled with endless conversations of people stuck in this division or that, cursing the system or how many hours they’ve wasted trying to climb to the next division. People are playing PvP for all of the wrong reasons and it’s become unfun and exhausting. People AFK to get that match done so they can get into the next to either win or lose to get into the next and so on until they achieve what they need. It feels more like a job than a game. Many of these people will never return.
I feel that if these pips and divisions were removed and the matchmaker repaired or removed things would improve immediately. Using long term goals like number of matches won, kills per class, caps or heals per match would keep people in the game longer and whether they won or lost the game they would still be working toward their desired goal, they wouldn’t feel the need to AFK to get that match done to get into the next to desperately try to get the next pip or tier done.
And you could still have some kind of ranking system with rewards exclusive to the highest achievers. All I want is PvP to be fun again. As it stands I don’t think I could stomach another season of this PvP.

This is getting ridiculous

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

[/quote]

This is what you are saying. How do you think people would react if legendary weapons were so easy to get you dont need to play PvE all that much or all that well to get one.

[/quote]

Legendarys can be had in seconds for gold or gems, bought or farmed.

Anet matchmaking

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

No, no, my friend. I’m never doing this ever again. I don’t even know what psychological disease made me desire Ascension in the first place. Heck, when the first season came up, I didn’t even want it. Then, I try harded for one single week before the end of Season 2, managed to wipe out so many cheevos at once I thought, “might as well finish it”.

But no. As of right now, it is finally over. My torture has ended. It is done. I can now return to Overwatch, Dead by Daylight and Evolve without a care in the world. I’ve finished what I started. I am free.

My sentiments exactly, pvp has become the most unfun it has ever been. Totally opposite of what it’s supposed to be.

This is getting ridiculous

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Devs create a reward to entice more people to play PvP, to increase the playerbase and make queue times smaller so it can be a more enjoyable experience for all.
Then we have a bunch of people saying that these rewards are just for the elite, you don’t deserve them just for participating. My question has always been that if the rewards are only for those that deserve them why should anyone else participate, spending countless hours chasing futility. We have unranked for that.

Question about PVP wings

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

This has been asked a lot recently, but yes there’s a 4th season. Anet have also said that the wings will be available after the final season. They didn’t say how they’d be obtained in the future though.

They said that they could still be completed as long as divisions had been crossed and any other achievement dependent on these 4 seasons. If not, you’re out of hope.

Game Wide Reset

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I’ve seen Diamond and Legend players that didn’t have the skill to be in Sapphire and I’ve also seen Ambers that could very easy play in Legend. But MM being what it is has created an environment that is stupidly wrong, anyone that denies this has simply glided through unchallenged thinking they have elite skills. They are also often the most vocal about this whole thing believing that “noobs” are undeserving of even participating. I swear if this game had reasonable MM half the people or more in the higher tiers would never have gotten there. At this stage I don’t believe that there is any fix for this other than those players that are stuck or endlessly struggling to just quit, there is little to no incentive in ranked for the unskilled or unlucky. They’re just feeding the higher MMR players wins and helping them achieve goals they can’t reach themselves. Quit ranked and let the elites battle themselves, let the queue times stretch and make them earn their wings rather than being fed.

These condi bunkers are absurd

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

It’s sometimes hard for me to understand what people are complaining about because my team is doing exactly the same thing to them.
This maybe more of a matchmaking issue than a class issue. You’re simply being outplayed.

Profession queueing

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I have a feeling the player base is so small making any modifications would cause untold delays.

can anything be done about afk?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I would bet gold that 9 times out of 10 the AFK player does it for legitimate reasons.
It gets really tiring trying to carry bad or stupid players, easier to ride it out in spawn.
I was in a match where 4 went home and I asked if anyone was coming mid with me and 1 replied “Why would you go mid stupid?” ……. I didnt go AFK but if I did I imagine one of them would be asking how to ban the AFK player.
And I’ve still never seen anyone AFK for no reason.

can anything be done about afk?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I don’t know what divisions that is happening in but the only time I’ve ever seen anyone AFK is when the team was being smashed at every point and the enemy score is becoming unbeatable. If we could /resign the AFK problem would go away

So many bad players in higher tiers why anet?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

They get carried, they want the rewards too.

Encountered something odd

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I’ve noticed this myself, when I play druid my team has thieves and mesmers. When I play warrior my team had guards and engis. Not always but enough of a time to notice.

MMR reset?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

MMR reset will not make the problem go away nor address it. Because no matter what the match maker will do it’s kitten nest to hold you to a 50/50 win rate unless you are blessed with good MMR or in a Pre made. ANet would have to redo the whole system to give solo queuers a fair chance based on skill and not some invisible number the players can’t see.

It’s all too late anyway, those that have the rewards won’t play season 4, a lot have gone to overwatch. And like my guild a lot are so tired of the grind they wont touch season 4. I dont think they can do anything to salvage it.

MMR HELL / HEAVEN

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I too have two accounts, the fresh one being on diamond with a 70% win rate.
My main has a 30% win rate stuck in Sapphire.
I had a guy from Legendary join my party earlier today saying he could carry me.
It was an eye opening experience for him to witness the dark side of MM, him saying he’s never lost so many games in a row.

Perma Chilled

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Theres been a lot of complaining about classes recently. Apparently there’s an immortal ele in pvp wiping whole teams.

Why is it ok for eles to be unkillable?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

As near as I can tell, the problem is that none of the Ele builds are “easy.” Based on being on the receiving end, they can be kitten ed near impossible to drop with less than a full, focused team, but I believe this requires an understanding of their options and using them with solid timing. My experience playing as an Ele was not nearly as successful as the ones I’ve faced, which could be that I’m just horrible as an Ele, but I think it’s just harder than it looks to chain their options together efficiently, since they do have almost twice as many options available as most other classes, and only a few of them will be what you need at a specific moment to survive. But if you do know those abilities and how to use them, yeah, hard to drop.

Very true, meaning that the hard to kill eles are more skillful rather than having a too powerful build. I’ve played ele and I have never been close to immortal.

The plague that is AFK

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

A harsh banhammer won´t work. I might do more damage then it will do good. You need to motivate players to actually play. But i am still thinking giving an option for players to dishonour by a 4 player vote is a way to help the comunity to react to bad behavior. I don´t think it will be overused or do you think 4 random players will agree to grief someone just for fun very often?

I think the second an angry person initiates a vote because the team is doing poorly the others will just follow blindly. I see it in fractals all of the time. Oftentimes the noisy angry guy is the problem, not the AFK guy.

The plague that is AFK

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I’m not aware of any competitive environment that seeks to understand why players are committing fouls.

[/quote]

You also rarely see any competitive environment with such an unfair and biased system for selecting and awarding matches, so there’s that.

Anet, Pls fix the stuck bug.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

It’s comedy when you are trying to secure a point then start dancing while a warrior is smashing your face in.

The plague that is AFK

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

This is a behavior problem. You fix behavior problems with immediate and certain consequences.

It would required ingame GMs that watch every single match.
I played COD some time ago on a server which was pretty strict. If you called someone a noob you got a “be nice!” warning. If you kept being rude you got banned for a few hours.
These actions have to be taken instantly. Not delayed. Interupt agressions before they escalate.

If you want to punish afkers (which punishment is fair? 10 mins dishonour pvp ban? 20 mins?) it is a lot of work for Anet. People will adapt. They will just run into enemies and suicide. If you try to ban these people you will see many false bans of active players who are just bad – but still doing their best.
You will see way more hostile comments, because players are forced to stay in the game which will cause more rage.

An improved matchmaking helps to reduce afkers. I think it was a really good idea to put former high divisions players into different divisions at season start. Give us an /resign option for lost matchs.

A good workaround would be: form a team. Your teammates won’t afk.

This is exactly what a lot of people don’t understand. It isn’t the AFKers that need correcting, it’s the underlying issues creating the AFK problem. You start dolling out punishments and the clever ones will just suicide repeatedly out of spite. You can’t ban them for that.

Are u kidding us with you matchmaking ANET?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Both images highlight the same problem, doesn’t matter what side won.

Tell me anet

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

No such thing as bad MM, move along, nothing to see here!

Why is it ok for eles to be unkillable?

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

There really isn’t any point in arguing against things that are out of your control. You have 3 options here, 1: make a build capable of shutting down an ele, 2: run around the ele and outcap the enemy, 3: continue as you are.

GW2 needs new gamemode

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

A lot of what you’re asking for is already available to you in WvW.
If you’ve never tried it go out and give it a bash.

The plague that is AFK

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I was in a game earlier today, we were 300 points behind with 100 to go to end it, our thief AFK’s. Instantly another player starts raging that he is costing us the game.
I think people get so upset at losing that they lose sight of whats really happening and just start raging and pointing fingers. The raging player was also the least valuable, kinda ironic. I joined the thief for the last 30 sec.

MMR Heaven = MMR Hell; no sub-15 min queues.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Unranked is a lot of fun, no stress, no consequences, and play any build I feel like.

MMR Heaven = MMR Hell; no sub-15 min queues.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I think season 4 will be worse, with people that have the wings and those that can’t get there many will not play.

The plague that is AFK

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

People will AFK if they feel the match is unwinnable, there isn’t much you can do against human nature. Some form of punishment might work, or it might scare them off pvp if it’s too harsh.

Looking for a Team or Create your own!

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

How does this work?

Ranked gamble

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

It sounds like a lot of fun, I’d definitely watch but I have no idea how you would control the corruption.

Anet, Pls fix the stuck bug.

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

This has been around forever, I don’t think they can fix it.

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I have to wonder what you guys that haven’t experienced this get out of constantly trying to explain to everyone how bad these players are. Do you feel compelled to justify your own win streaks.

Just to be clear, are you making the argument that you have a 20% winrate and it’s not your fault? I just want to make sure I know what you’re trying to say.

What im trying to say is why do you try to prove something thats not happening to you.

I’m in diamond with a 70% winrate
Also in Sapphire with a 35% winrate. Different accounts
Both solo, just so someone doesnt say I was carried
So I have a perspective on this

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

Lets do some math!

In emerald or sapphire, gaining a tier locks in your progress permanently. This puts a hard upper limit on the amount of pips you need to gain in a row in order to progress through that division. In emerald this number is 4, while in sapphire it is 5. However, both 4 and 5 are accomplished by the same pattern of games: LLLWWW.

3 losses followed by 3 wins. This gives 5 pips, and guarantees progression. So to get an absolute worst case scenario estimate of how difficult it is for someone to progress, we simply need to look at the chances of getting 3 wins in a row.

Math

Lets start with an average player: a 50% winrate. For this person, the chance of winning or losing any given match is .5, and the chance of winning (or losing) 3 matches in a row is .5^3, or .125. This means that a person with a 50% winrate will experience a 3 match winstreak 12.5% of the time in any randomly sampled 3 consecutive matches. In 100 matches played, this will happen slightly more than 10 times. This means that a person with a 50% winrate should have absolutely no issues climbing out of sapphire.

Now lets go a bit lower. A person with a 30% winrate only has a 2.7% chance of winning 3 in a row. This means that in 100 matches, this person only pass on average about 2-3 tiers. However, this is still definitely progression. This person makes progress, and will eventually hit ruby in about 300 matches.

Lets go even lower. A person with a 20% winrate has only a .8% chance of winning 3 in a row. This means that in 100 matches, this person has a significant chance of not actually progressing a tier at all. Eventually they will, but it will take far longer. In 500 matches, this person would have only progressed 4 tiers on average, making their journey to ruby rather arduous.

Explanation

So what do all these numbers mean? Well, these numbers show that in order for someone to truly get locked into a division below ruby, they would need to have a winrate around or below 20%. Anything significantly higher than that and that person will make slow but consistent progress.

This means that anyone arguing for the existence of an MMR hell below ruby is arguing that a 20% winrate is the fault of the system and not the fact that they’re simply astonishingly bad at PvP. That’s going to be a tough sell. If anyone truly feels that their 20% winrate is actually Anet’s matchmaking being garbage and not their own lack of skill, I ask you to make a video and show us just how bad all your teammates are, so that we can verify where the problem lies.

I have to wonder what you guys that haven’t experienced this get out of constantly trying to explain to everyone how bad these players are. Do you feel compelled to justify your own win streaks.

SURVEY regarding MMR Hell - please answer!

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

I doubt you’ll get many, they’re tired of being told they’re wrong by people that have never experienced what they have. This poll is just a kitten for people that ride win streaks.

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

You make good points but whatever the reason doesn’t matter anymore, having started in mid season 2 I won’t have crossed enough divisions so I’m out. Congratz to those that did make it. See you at the next whatever they decide to have.

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

By the logic of some of these guys starvation doesn’t exist because they’ve never experienced it.

By basing it on the videos I posted, (I can post more If you want), where are the explanations about MMR hell, ESL players being favored, etc. me vs ESL players, stacking, etc.

Talking bout Amber to Ruby here.

Well I have 2 accounts, 1 in Diamond, 1 in Sapphire. The first one got to Diamond in 3 days, the Sapphire one is stuck. I have never won more than 3 games in a row with my Sapphire char. Guess which has the better MMR.

Of course, new accounts have average MMR, this is common knowledge by now. Anet should not have given new accounts average MMR.

So with what you are saying, even before the leagues your main account who is stuck in sapphire had horrible MMR (either you did not play pvp a lot or just lost a lot)

So by your statement, if you chose the latter, your problem did not start with the leagues?

Yes my MMR is low, around 35%, reasons aren’t relevant but after 3000 games I’ve learned my classes and how to play the game, but heres the thing. Why do I get matched against rubys while I have emeralds on my team. How does this make sense.
Just before writing this I had a match with 2 emeralds and 1 amber in my team vs 4 rubys and 1 sapphire. Now division shouldn’t matter as people keep saying but the results were inevitable, they smashed us. That was my 3rd loss after 2 wins. In this kind of pattern you will never proceed. At this stage I know if Im on a winning team or losing, by the gear and titles people use.

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

By the logic of some of these guys starvation doesn’t exist because they’ve never experienced it.

By basing it on the videos I posted, (I can post more If you want), where are the explanations about MMR hell, ESL players being favored, etc. me vs ESL players, stacking, etc.

Talking bout Amber to Ruby here.

Well I have 2 accounts, 1 in Diamond, 1 in Sapphire. The first one got to Diamond in 3 days, the Sapphire one is stuck. I have never won more than 3 games in a row with my Sapphire char. Guess which has the better MMR.

MMR hell explanation

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

By the logic of some of these guys starvation doesn’t exist because they’ve never experienced it.

WHY MATCHMAKING IS BROKEN

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Sooloo.1364

This is the best explanation I’ve heard yet and very accurate.

A Letter to the PvP Community about Leagues

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Posted by: Sooloo.1364

Sooloo.1364

On your final thoughts. Improving from your own mistakes and bettering yourself is great, but what about the rest of the team the matchmaker put you with.
I’d love to be teamed with and matched against players of my skill level, that isn’t even close to happening now.