A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.
Totally agree.
I third the motion.
I fourth the motion.
i fifth the motion.
Can I sixth?
It already exists; it’s the guild initiative office in lion’s arch. You have your guild armorer and weaponsmith, your bank, and a private place to hang with one or two friends.
I want to seventh my own motion but I’m pretty sure double-voting is against the rules =P
@nezroy a guild wants its own real estate. Not some second-hand minister’s office in a crowded city… so… seriously?
Quote from Guild Wars 1: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”
Not to mention the fact that you can’t get there through the guild menu. Loading into Lion’s Arch is a pain… as for myself, I’ve actively avoided the place for a couple of years.
Slowly moving away from WvW now. Been playing other games more and more. Planetside 2, EQ2…even, ugh…ESO. So have something to keep me busy until another wvw type game launches.
Have played the new maps a bit. But they are all but deserted except in NA Prime. Even then its usually just one zerg k-training on a given BL. EB is usually queued 20+ deep by the time I get home during the week.
Yup, this is now just a time filler while CamelotUnchained is in Alpha. Once it hits Beta in 2-3 months, bye bye GW2.
Or when For Honor releases, eh? Haha, WvW and PvP will both disappear when that happens.
Dude that game isn’t even mmorpg. I say that everybody quit gw2 when fifa 2017 releases.
Nope, not an MMO, but a lot like cooler version of WvW – melee siege deathmatches with actual controls O.o
Sports? Haha, maybe for you. I play GW2 for medieval/fantasy/setting/swords. When they implement that into Fifa, I’m in. (Not like Bloodbowl.)
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
I’m pretty sure Age of Empires isn’t an MMO and can’t really be compared to an MMORPG. You have to look at what MMORPGs are, not what other games are. I’ve been playing baseball my whole life, but they’ve yet ot release an expansion.
You’re clearly just arguing here to argue.
It’s one thing to say that Age of Empires isn’t an MMO; it’s another thing entirely to make a pointed attack on my intentions. You never mentioned anything about specifically referring to MMO expansions. You simply said “a standard expansion”. You took a stab at the history of expansions (my reference to Age of Empires was a completely random shot in the dark). If you want to argue MMO expansions, I’d delightedly point you at the second two Guild Wars 1 titles and their Eye of the North expansion. But the thing is, games on a whole have had both expansions and DLC since (nearly) the dawn of gaming; so far, HoT has provided a few hints at being an expansion, but more at being a living world/seasonal update. Hopefully there’s more content to come that we don’t know about yet.
Baseball? Uh… to the best of my knowledge, baseball never advertised an expansion. Not sure where you’re going with that one.
But I guess if I’m just here to argue… what would I know?
Here’s the thing, people play Guild Wars 2 Year 1 edition because it allows them almost limitless restrictions to where you can go, what you can do and how you do it. (About 90%)
Then comes Guild Wars 2 Year 2 edition, and it turns into almost (78%) a WoW clone. But people still love it.
Then comes Guild Wars 2 Year 3 edition and it could change it’s name into Grind Wars 2 and no one will bat an eye about it.
Of course, there are still people who have that old MMO mentality and white knight mentality that ARENANET could do no wrong. It’s like ARENANET is their god and they worship it without questions.
Now, currently Guild Wars 2 : HoT Year 1 edition can also be called Grind Wars 2 : HoT Year 1 edition.
The Mastery are forced into you when you enter HoT.
There was no forced adventures in Core Tyria maps. You can enter Fields of Ruins as a Level 2 via the portal in Divinity ’s Reach and complete some of the Heart Quest in Ebonhawke like the tearing of the posters and such. But if you step out of Ebonhawke and try to run all the way to the Summit, you may die or you may not, depends on how skillful you can avoid the enemies there and their range.
Or, you could enter Frostgorge as a level 60 and still get all the way until Rojan the Penitent (Double Agent for Jormag), and wait for Claw of Jormag and go whack it.
But in HoT, try going to Patriach Wyvern without Glider updraft……oh wait, you can’t….
Funniest thing about white knights… even employees and devs wouldn’t uphold their game as staunchly as the white knights do. They might put on a public stone face (and talk fondly of particular elements they enjoy or are excited about), but in the boardrooms there’s always going to be a lot of discussion/tearing out of hair when it comes to the game as a whole. Sure, they might love working there, but that doesn’t mean they love every design choice for the game.
Hmm… I’m assuming EotM is getting players because people are returning from new PvE content and sitting in EBG queues while ignoring the BLs. But if more people are suddenly joining the game mode and making it popular, why a revamped design? Sounds more like it’s got the right design if it’s pulling people in after having existed for quite a while.
@Chiccotot, yeah, I saw that post somewhere as well. Don’t really see how EotM could work as a borderland, myself, as it’s got an even/balanced layout (the whole idea of a borderland is that the owning server has to try and protect its land). Same with EBG. Almost the same with the desert borderland, with the current waypoint scandal. I think EotM still works better as a standalone, combination-of-all-servers map rather than a borderland rotation. And the desert map would as well. Better if alpine had two reskinned semi-clones (different biomes, same essential layout) that were in rotation as borderlands. So… 3BLs (alpine and two similar), EBG, EotM, and the desert map.
Still begs the question… what would be redesigned in EotM?
out of curiosity… did you need to have a td full clear to get the gerent piece? i was part of a successful lane with an overall meta fail and got nothing
the icebrood quaggan also depends on event failure and i almost screwed that up for myself and a couple others (fortunately i was paying attention to chats just enough).
Support told me that all 4 lanes need to succeed and the item would be in the chest. I’ve been trying to kill this thing for like 5 days now. Nobody is doing it, none of the big guilds are doing anything. I’ve tried to organize a few times now and nobody listens and nuhochs broken and the whole event is a big mess and anet won’t even respond.
Ugh, really? I’m handicapped by this as well… I’ve never seen the meta succeed. To be honest, I haven’t even heard of it succeeding, although it must have happened somewhere, sometime, somehow.
It’s good to hear that Anet are talking to, or will be talking to, some selected WvW commanders but this also worries me.
I understand that probably people can’t be named, no problems there, but look at the current Desert Borderlands: if you wanted a map that was good for large group epic fights then it’s actually not bad at all. What has killed it however is the fact that it’s not easy to learn your way round from the start and many of the roamers and small groups feel they can’t or don’t want to face T3 upgrade stuff all the time. It seems to be the quiet time players and smaller groups who have seen the biggest impact of the change.
If you go by numbers then reset onwards for 2 hours is a lot of players – and it’s about big fights. The other 22 hours are a bit quieter… and we need WvW to work then too.
If you go by numbers then the top tiers make up perhaps the majority of WvW players – and those players are on those servers for the big fights. The other 5 or 6 tiers are a bit quieter and we need WvW to work for them too…
Either way, if the conversations between chosen players and Anet don’t include some people who understand the smaller scale of play for non-prime time and lower tier servers, I fear we’re going to face the same situation we have now.
Yes. I’m not one of the commanders they’ll be talking to, but I know that some (probably many) came from tier 1 because that’s where Anet’s immediate focus seems to be. However, I suggested a few people from tier 3 who are more fights oriented than ppt oriented, so maybe that will help in some way.
Realistically, Anet’s not going to do away with their new map. Asking for it to be gone is dumb, but I’m hoping that at least some of the people Anet’s going to be talking to will at least give something workable to them…
I’ve seen a lot of people asking for it to go out the door, but firstly Anet did put work into it, and secondly it’s kind of silly to ask for real-estate to be erased. Better if it’s kept as an alternative map (like EotM). I find it strange and sad that they completely removed the old alpine map instead of moving it to the sidelines as an alternative map instead; I’d still wander those idyllic rolling hills, even if it was empty.
Yes there was more content in the core game than there is in the “expansion”. I put expansion in quotes, because so many people seem to think of this as a standard expansion. It’s not. It’s added stuff to the game that goes far beyond what a normal expansion adds. Not in more maps, but in a roadmap for the game ahead. It’s almost like Guild Wars 2 2.0 or something. Specializations and elite specializations are a complete rewrite of the trait system. Masteries are a complete rewrite of the post 80 progression system. Guilds now have a form of progress as well, and guild halls are entire maps.
Pretty sure Age of Empires 2 expansions are still counted as expansions… and they add mechanics, civilizations, units, functions, maps, storylines, and tons of other things that in some cases go beyond the original vision for the game. Check out the latest one (released ~two weeks ago?) if you don’t believe me. =P
One of the most vital resources to the Guild Hall lies in Dragon’s Stand, during the event…the event that only comes up once with a 2 hour cooldown…the event that usually fails quickly then you’re stuck waiting yet another 2 hours for.
…
WAIT.
You can fail DS?
I need to try and do this.
It does happen, especially with the huge number of empty maps that people end up stranded on when taxis disappear 5-10 mins into the event.
Oh yeah, and there was that time when everyone got to the boss and then the game actually refreshed all their instances when the boss hit 50% (voila, same timer, but the boss had magically vanished and there was no reward or chest). That was a fun one. Happened yesterday.
I see… Have yet to happen to me.
Glad for you, bud; I’ve farmed everything for my mistward collection except the helm insignia (DS) and the Chak Gerent piece. Pretty sure the latter’s a long way away – I’ve yet to even see a map succeed with the TD meta… =/
Edit: in fact, I’ve still yet to hear about a TD meta success.
Slowly moving away from WvW now. Been playing other games more and more. Planetside 2, EQ2…even, ugh…ESO. So have something to keep me busy until another wvw type game launches.
Have played the new maps a bit. But they are all but deserted except in NA Prime. Even then its usually just one zerg k-training on a given BL. EB is usually queued 20+ deep by the time I get home during the week.
Yup, this is now just a time filler while CamelotUnchained is in Alpha. Once it hits Beta in 2-3 months, bye bye GW2.
Or when For Honor releases, eh? Haha, WvW and PvP will both disappear when that happens.
Yeah, we should be able to buy pieces – or at least to choose which sections are shown via the outfit panel. I hate hats/helmets quite a lot, and most gem store outfits include hideous ones. (Also, Guild Wars 1 sold outfits, and you could choose which parts you used. Come on, Guild Wars 2, catch up already…)
You can turn off outfit headgear by turning off your armor’s helm.
Uh… really? Hasn’t work for me any other time; I’ll need to try it again when I get home. I’ve also never seen anyone in an outfit minus the helmet, but maybe I just haven’t been paying enough attention.
One of the most vital resources to the Guild Hall lies in Dragon’s Stand, during the event…the event that only comes up once with a 2 hour cooldown…the event that usually fails quickly then you’re stuck waiting yet another 2 hours for.
…
WAIT.
You can fail DS?
I need to try and do this.
It does happen, especially with the huge number of empty maps that people end up stranded on when taxis disappear 5-10 mins into the event.
Oh yeah, and there was that time when everyone got to the boss and then the game actually refreshed all their instances when the boss hit 50% (voila, same timer, but the boss had magically vanished and there was no reward or chest). That was a fun one. Happened yesterday.
You need to be out of your mind to expect an expansion to be as big as the core game..
Guild wars 2 is the only game where people complain about a reasonably priced expansion, the only MMO i have ever seen where people compare an expansions size to the original game(news flash, the original game took MANY MORE YEARS TO MAKE)
This community is out of its frigging mind. Compared to other fully priced expansions in other games HOT is just fine, especially if you consider how many patches and more content we will get for the price we spent.
WOD has less content than HOT has for example and recieved only a few kittenty patches, now everyone is stuck there waiting for the next expansion.
YOU DID NOT ONLY PAY FOR THE NEW ZONES, YOU ALSO PAID FOR ALL THE PATCHES TO COME. New living world seasons, new zones. New raids and who knows what else.
I’d refer you to all of the releases of Guild Wars 1 (of which only one was technically considered an expansion), but you must have done your research, so I won’t bother. This being the same company and (more or less) team, it’s not too much to ask for at least some more places to go. Not like each Guild Wars 1 release contained a full new map and story and two new professions each – along with all future patches.
But after the tiny number of new maps vanilla GW2 released before HoT, here’s hoping a lot more maps come out before the next expansion. We’re still sitting on less real-estate than Guild Wars 1: Prophecies (the very first Guild Wars release).
Maybe you don’t want a sub par FPS experience in an MMO but it’s not about what you want. I’ve never played an MMO that was about ‘what I want’. Anet wanted a collection of activities for unlock; if the requirement for those activities were based on ‘what everyone wants’, there would be no collection that would fulfill it.
But you can build something based on what the majority of your player demographic wants.
Why would you assume your player base that’s currently playing an MMO with MMO mechanics would want to stop playing that and enjoy your sub-par FPS or Race simulator experience?
Why not make the adventures use the mechanics that are linked to the game type your players are actually playing?
I don’t know and I won’t venture a guess. What I do know is that Anet has made a broad set of activities that appeal to a wide range of players in an attempt to make some parts of unlocking this interesting to most of the players. What I don’t understand is how some activities out of the many are such a barrier that people would refuse the whole unlocking process outright.
Pretty simple:
1) Because until now, mini-games similar to this have been kept to lore-friendly places (like on Charr training grounds or in Krytan towns that aren’t in the middle of warzones).
2) Because they’ve been casual options rather than being attached to the acquisition of core hero points – mastery points. (One exception to this was the skill point in Bloodtide Coast, where you had to accurately shoot a charged-range cannon and hit three targets.)
3) HoT is a jungle-infestation-style battleground. This means that sometimes the mini-game vendors sometimes go into hiding (locked status), but are happy to open their shooting galleries up as soon as dawn arrives again. In the middle of a jungle that practically seethes with hostile plants and creatures.
Curiously, although it certainly wouldn’t encourage players to play them, the mini-games should require that we pay many of the vendors. Poor guys have businesses to maintain on the battlefront. Can’t be easy to pay for all the damages and pay heroes to run your courses as well.
This is all pointless. They aren’t going to change anything. It’s too late now. If they made the system fair at this point, it would totally screw over the guilds that have already sunk thousands into upgrades.
I’m a WVWer. Larger guilds, like, well, no names, already have some of their auras unlocked, whereas smaller guilds like mine don’t have anything unlocked. Other WvW guilds that are really PvX have lots of stuff unlocked. But both are effective WvW guilds. One regularly fields 20-30 on raid nights, mine fields 15-20 on raid nights. The difference is that the larger one has more people who do pvx. A guild I was recently in was sitting on 7,000 gold, whereas my current guild is sitting on 10.
Again, this isn’t going to change. Just accept it, be depressed, or stop playing.
It’s perfectly fine to let them fix it and accept that whatever gold has been sunk into it is gone. We are ready to accept that, and we’ve dropped $2000 gold between less than 8 people. Maybe you should be ready for that as well.
The problem is, a lot of people won’t accept that, and the forums will light up like a bonfire with people who have suddenly lost 500g+ each. I’m pretty sure that’s not the kind of publicity Anet wants, and wouldn’t be a fun community to have around us here…
There’s got to be better ways of balancing things. Like providing smaller halls with less/smaller options, like WvW-only-upgrade halls or something.
Under your way of thinking, that still won’t work. Smaller guilds that have been paying big guild money would still be screwed. If you can’t handle the idea of accepting the loss of gold, then the only other option available to anet is to give away all the guild hall upgrades on next patch.
I’m not saying replace small guilds’ halls with small halls. I’m saying provide small halls as an option when first buying one. A guild can then choose which hall they want based on goals and capability. If they’re able to build up a full big hall, awesome. More power to them, and more/bigger services too.
Anet giving away the upgrades would pretty much (as you put it) screw anyone who paid money at all. A bit like commanders who had bought tags for all their characters (although I believe they were slightly compensated, if I remember correctly).
Are you just gonna ignore the fact that HoT maps are way bigger and pact than core game maps, tons of new features?
They aren’t bigger than core game maps unless you maybe take the different levels into account but upper and lower levels are not even close to complete levels in themselves. Plus effectively its only 3 maps with DS being just an event map.
Also tell me on MMORPG that offers the same amount of content in expansion compare to core game with same price, HoT has so much content compare to wow expansion(first patch of course), FF14 expansion(weekly/daily dungeon token gate).
HOT content is definitely not worth the premium price. I don’t play FF14 but I’ve heard feedback that there’s clearly more content than HOT. I do play swtor however and their recent xpac completely revised the whole game and was free to subscribers for the price of 1 months sub ($15) they revised the whole game and offered a story that is leagues ahead of the poor HOT story.
Seriously? Every HoT maps are at least 2-3 times the land mass of core Tyria maps, Also DS doesn’t count because it’s an event map? WHAT? Then Orr also doesn’t count as maps because they are also events maps, hell most of core Tyria are leveling zones so you might as well don’t consider they are maps too.
Landmass 2-3 times as big? Erm… have you looked at Brisban Wildlands or Kessex Hills? Not to mention most maps in the Shiverpeaks, like Frostgorge Sound, and maps in Ascalon, like Plains of Ashford, etc, etc, etc…
Comparing Orr to DS isn’t really fair; until you’ve progressed through the DS meta, you can’t explore half of the map. Orr only lacks temples, which doesn’t affect exploration access.
Even core Tyria maps have lore/travel value (which for explorer gamers is a huge thing), and if you think about it… the mini-games (mislabeled as adventures) threaded throughout the HoT maps are all leveling zones too. Not to mention that the only places we can both level and use HoT masteries is on the HoT maps. So technically we just have four new leveling zones!
I’m primarily an explorer, and the vertical nature of HoT makes it actively uninteresting to me.
HoT has a TON of exploration value. There are even quite a few visible and hidden achievement tracks for exploring. I have played almost nothing but the new maps since they came out, and I still have not found half the things I know are out there. Today on two different occasions I just wandered off in a direction I had unfogged and walked a bunch of times, but I hadn’t really looked before and found a bunch of cool new stuff, even APs dinging. (I found a chicken on the face of a massive cliff yesterday for 5 AP?)
If you enjoy wandering around finding things, I think you’d love HoT. Maybe wait till it goes on sale.
HoT is okay for exploration, but is generally uninspiring for that purpose. Most of the citizens you encounter are random frogs who swipe at flies with their tongues and mutter random indecipherable things (probably insults). The environment is kind of pretty but generally lacks scenery due to expansive leaf canopies (never can tell where the next updraft is, hah) and a lot of things being underground.
Personally, though, I was over the jungle scene before HoT even launched (whenever I created Asuran/Sylvari characters I immediately left the forest in favor of Ascalon/Kryta/The Shiverpeaks), so maybe it’s just me.
This is all pointless. They aren’t going to change anything. It’s too late now. If they made the system fair at this point, it would totally screw over the guilds that have already sunk thousands into upgrades.
I’m a WVWer. Larger guilds, like, well, no names, already have some of their auras unlocked, whereas smaller guilds like mine don’t have anything unlocked. Other WvW guilds that are really PvX have lots of stuff unlocked. But both are effective WvW guilds. One regularly fields 20-30 on raid nights, mine fields 15-20 on raid nights. The difference is that the larger one has more people who do pvx. A guild I was recently in was sitting on 7,000 gold, whereas my current guild is sitting on 10.
Again, this isn’t going to change. Just accept it, be depressed, or stop playing.
It’s perfectly fine to let them fix it and accept that whatever gold has been sunk into it is gone. We are ready to accept that, and we’ve dropped $2000 gold between less than 8 people. Maybe you should be ready for that as well.
The problem is, a lot of people won’t accept that, and the forums will light up like a bonfire with people who have suddenly lost 500g+ each. I’m pretty sure that’s not the kind of publicity Anet wants, and wouldn’t be a fun community to have around us here…
There’s got to be better ways of balancing things. Like providing smaller halls with less/smaller options, like WvW-only-upgrade halls or something.
Very tricky one to balance or change now that people are spending gazillions on everything for it… one way might be to add some guild-bound products to other professions as well. And modify scribes so that they can create some things that aren’t just for guilds.
Discovering new areas and taking in the scenery is one of my favorite aspects of this sort of game. Anet’s art department has demonstrated time and again that they have what it takes to make finding a new bit of scenery a reward in itself.
Ah, yes… did you kneel at Gwen’s grave for a while when you encountered it? I certainly did. Nostalgia and sentiment can be used so powerfully.
(If you didn’t play GW1, you can pretty much ignore the first two sentences.)
I don’t want to ignore them. I now know there was a person called Gwen (Stacey?) and they have a grave and you can kneel at it. I am intrigued.
Well, there’s that grave as well, but elsewhere. I stopped there too.
I was actually referring to the grave of Captain Gwen Thackeray, a Guild Wars 1 character who you meet as a child at the start and then again in her early 20s in the Eye of the North expansion (she becomes a main story character). Her grave is on the south-east corner of the Stronghold of Ebonhawke; it’s the communed hero point there.
One of favor game is Shadow of the Colossus. Imagine a piece of uncharted land on Tyria occupied by different champions.
Not quite something that explorers could solo (generally), but that does sound very cool. Boy did that game have atmosphere. The whole thing was pretty much exploration.
I can see that being an awesome trip for little bands of explorers/adventurers. And adding a few champions in a map is much less involved than setting up mobs and events everywhere, so could be very quick and affordable from Anet’s point of view, too.
Buying each item separately was way too confusing. Thank you Arenanet for streamlining my Gemstore Experience !
To clarify: I’m fine with buying outfits as all-in-ones (bit pricey, but whatever); the issue is that we can’t customize which parts are equipped on our characters via the outfit panel.
Well, how is “legendary crafting” – that yields a precursor only – different from that?
Haha, but at least precursors are related to legendaries. You kind of need a precursor if you’re going to craft a legendary, right? Mini-games aren’t in the slightest related to adventures! =P
(Is it really called legendary crafting? I’ve completely ignored it because I’m not about to spend 2,000,000 hours on a single piece of equipment that has… what… +2 damage? lol)
Discovering new areas and taking in the scenery is one of my favorite aspects of this sort of game. Anet’s art department has demonstrated time and again that they have what it takes to make finding a new bit of scenery a reward in itself.
Ah, yes… did you kneel at Gwen’s grave for a while when you encountered it? I certainly did. Nostalgia and sentiment can be used so powerfully.
(If you didn’t play GW1, you can pretty much ignore the first two sentences.)
I wouldn’t base it on actual guild count, but your cap. I made a post to that effect a couple pages back. That makes for clearly defined lines between the tiers, instead of its 210 one day, and invite one guy and its suddenly 218.
Still promotes tension and frustration between guilds, unfortunately. The main thing is that most people would still be looking for the most cost-effective way, which means a lot of new empty guilds for (six months?) that will suddenly become full of people when fully-upgraded. Guilds who actually put in the farming and effort for their personal halls will likely become either a laughing stock or put high taxes on new recruits if they want to access services (elitist).
Edit: Upon further consideration, it would also encourage sales of guild halls. If someone sits by himself upgrading an empty guild for six months and then sells it to the highest bidder, he could make a pretty tidy sum of gold. I’m not convinced that’s something this game needs…
Yeah, we should be able to buy pieces – or at least to choose which sections are shown via the outfit panel. I hate hats/helmets quite a lot, and most gem store outfits include hideous ones. (Also, Guild Wars 1 sold outfits, and you could choose which parts you used. Come on, Guild Wars 2, catch up already…)
It’s funny, I didn’t think I was going to come back to this topic; it seemed fairly abandoned. But it’s just come to my attention that scribes are a very strong example of a profession that the guild has to pay for. A scribe can use a guild to get to max level, and then leave the guild or swap guilds, right? So if people really want to complain about the idea of mercenary professions and where the gold should go and the idea that everyone should level up to ascended/max level crafting simply to make things for themselves, that’s already behind us.
So the idea of guild-bound items is still serious.
I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.
You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!
The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.
If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.
And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.
You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.
/rant
I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.
This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.
The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.
Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.
This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.
It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.
Ouch, for a couple of reasons.
You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.
Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.
Once again, to fully upgrade something that is gated by time, something that fi you have everything you need every time the timer is up should put you around the 6 month mark.
So you would be ok if you weren’t in the newly created guild, NOTHING will be done in your current guild. You would be fine with pumping hundreds of mats and gold to people working to build up another guild, getting nothing for it, other than the promise that in 6 months (or more if the time gating is harsher than expected) you will be invited to the completed guild and finally have access to things.
You wouldn’t be able to benefit from a single thing for 6+ months. Your current guild, the supposed large guild that is creating and funding this new offshoot, would be at a total stand still and not be upgrading a single thing. I personally know very few people who would ever be ok with that over such a long period. This isn’t a one month wait, this is 6+ months of never having access to guild upgrades, no proper guild hall, no guild arena access, etc. Think you will be ok with not taking part in a chunk of the expansion? You can’t join another guild, as they will expect you to fork over stuff to help them build as well. Thus you are stuck if you take this route trusting that this new guild won’t have a drama blowout where they break away completely after the large parent guild forked over so much to improve it. 6 months is a long time, seen more than one large guild implode once you split the population like that.
As someone who is in a small guild (without upgrades since the reset), I can still say that I’d rather not ruin the game for big guilds at the same time as ruining very simple game logic. Before HoT launched, big guilds already had an advantage over little guilds in that they could gain favor quicker through events/missions/bounties/playing together/etc. But small guilds could still upgrade at a reasonable and inexpensive rate. What you’re suggesting is pretty much guaranteed to cause huge dramas everywhere (yes, big guilds have the biggest voices), and Anet is not about to choose something that turns their game into a rampage/ghost town.
I’m looking forward to the addition of small and medium guild halls instead.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.
Keeping in mind, of course, that 26 of the 50 might not show up for dinner at all, and 10 of them don’t like what you’ve cooked and make something for themselves.
It doesn’t make sense to build, for instance, a tavern that takes up… uh… let’s say 15 yards x 15 yards, that for one group of people costs 50 planks and for another costs 500,000 planks.
A different size of guild hall for a different size of guild? With smaller services? That would make sense.
I suspect they hard coded how the mega server system works using data from core maps rather than real time update based HoT zones. This lead to empty maps in the new areas.
If the time sink aspect is the main design decision in the maps, they should allow players to choose queuing for a full map or go straight to an overflow like instances.
They should allow players to choose instances like most other mmos.
Like, for instance, Guild Wars 2’s predecessor – Guild Wars 1. Funny how choosing the instance (such a useful tool) was lost between titles, eh?
I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.
You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!
The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.
If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.
And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.
You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.
/rant
I’m only here to point out a huge flaw you and SO MANY OTHERS have when they say MMO.
Yes it does mean massively multiplayer online. That is, however, the only part of the definition you got correct…the words, missed the meaning by a mile.
MMO was tagged originally for games (and still is by the industry) for any game in which you can log in and play on the same server as other players in a persistant world. That is it, MMO does not and has never meant you had to be in a group. This is a farce that people on forums have used as a reason to dismiss a style of gameplay they don’t like, or don’t think should be rewarded even a fraction as well as other styles.
This is also a mindset that is a hold-over from EQ style early MMOs…that you needed a group to do anything, including just wandering around high level zones. Antiquated thinking that essentially says “I don’t care that you have a life and limited time, find a group or GTFO” needs to be disposed of.
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Now I’m not here to bash on the OP and say that it should never happen, as I would like to see small guilds and large guilds be catered to. But ANet is in a difficult spot, to come up with a system that large guilds can’t abuse.
The best way has already been given but the large guilds balk at it; make it scale with the number of people in the guild. I mean large guilds shouldn’t have any problems with it considering the many many things people belonging to them say to smaller guilds now. Shouldn’t bother a large guild one bit that they have to fork in extra stuff because they have members that aren’t logging in all that often. Shouldn’t bother them one bit that they are working harder to get upgrades smaller guilds are getting for less. As only the total is less, each member is still forking out the same amount per head.
Worried about a guild shedding most of it’s members, upgrading, then inviting everyone back? Easy. Your guild number is based on what it was a month ago, every member you add increases the number…but each person you kick only causes the number to go down if it stays that low for a month (31 days). This means the large guilds, to exploit it, would have to pare down their membership for 31 consecutive days before the price of things drops, then keep everyone out for another set of months when you add in the time gating and build times and the constant checking…a large guild would have to hope their members would be ok with not being a part of the guild for 6+ months before everything could be built. Hand over mats to those in the guild trusting they will be re-invited after the 6+ months needed to fully upgrade everything. That is a long time to trust people on their word. If the large guild caves and invites people then the cost goes up immediately.
This alone prevents exploits as the path to exploit it requires so much trust, and so much time, people won’t be willing to do it. Think about how many people you know willing to sit on the outside of a guild doing things, handing over hundreds and thousands of gold/mats without being able to benefit from it at all?
And remember, it won’t matter if they just don’t rep you, their name on your roster counts against you weather they wear your tag or not.
It does require the cost of things to be so variable that each individual person causes them to grow or shrink regardless of how many people are in a guild. In this way there is no “free” slots where adding a person makes no changes.
Ouch, for a couple of reasons.
You do know there’s a giant exploit for that, right? A big guild can just create an entirely new guild, fully upgrade it with assistance from old members, and then transfer everyone to it.
Also, like others have said, scaling in that way is a really bad design/development choice. Not only does it make no sense logically (why would an impartial NPC sell something for 600 gold to one player and 2 gold to another, or why would a tavern take 90 planks for someone and 9,000,000 for someone else), but it would cause giant divides between established guilds of different sizes. Drama happens in systems where everything is fair – as soon as you make something unfair, drama becomes worse. The community would become a forest fire.
New guild halls of various sizes could solve the situation. A guild would choose its hall based on its goal, its farming ability, and the capacity/utility of the services of each hall size.
Maybe you don’t want a sub par FPS experience in an MMO but it’s not about what you want. I’ve never played an MMO that was about ‘what I want’. Anet wanted a collection of activities for unlock; if the requirement for those activities were based on ‘what everyone wants’, there would be no collection that would fulfill it.
But you can build something based on what the majority of your player demographic wants.
Why would you assume your player base that’s currently playing an MMO with MMO mechanics would want to stop playing that and enjoy your sub-par FPS or Race simulator experience?
Why not make the adventures use the mechanics that are linked to the game type your players are actually playing?
Also, curiously (although I was not on the forums), I’d say that Guild Wars 1 devs seemed to know where the game was going and what its players wanted. I don’t recall any kind of update that added completely unrelated or unwanted gameplay to core areas (unless I’ve forgotten about it). Perhaps that was partially a mood thing, though, because GW1 also had a stronger sense of atmosphere.
HoT maps are dungeons by design with after thought open world elements.
That’s actually a pretty good comparison. So many elite/veteran enemies scattered around the map, and very little combat challenge other than internal challenges (should I use my 2 skill? my 3 skill? maybe my 7 skill to speed things up a bit?) unless fighting Mordrem soldiers.
These mini-games (you won’t catch me calling them actual adventures) would be functional within a separate and comical environment like the Super Adventure Box. Putting them in the main world… doesn’t feel right. They’re festival-style mini-games with rewards. They can give mastery points for all I care, but they simply don’t belong on the main maps. If finding room to scatter adventures around main maps was something that slowed down the release of HoT, I can only cringe at the development choice.
These mini-games (you won’t catch me calling them actual adventures) would be functional within a separate and comical environment like the Super Adventure Box. Putting them in the main world as mastery requirements… doesn’t feel right. They’re festival-style mini-games with rewards.
Edit: like other people, I’m not against them being an optional way to obtain mastery points. It’s more that the presentation, the connotation of the word “adventure”, and the location that annoy me.
Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"
Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.
From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.1 MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.
Emphasis on “MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.”
As in they may have more than one persistent instance. The main examples I could find of that kind of thing was board game MMOs.
I took my time and didn’t rush into the expansion, so I didn’t see any other map besides VB and a little AB in the first few weeks of the release. I’ve been into DS a few times now, spent several hours on it in chunks of maybe 30 – 60 minutes. I still have zero idea how that map works and what the meta involves or anything. Never have seen a single event.
Yes, I know youtube is a resource, but my point is, as a player, the game does a poor job of informing me what to do or point me in a productive direction or give me incentive to even come back other than heavy-handed ones like achievements, collections, specific materials, etc. It doesn’t entice me back because that map is fun. Definitely not that.
Yeah, there’s very little in-game push for playing the new maps. To get masteries? Well, sure, but you’ll only be using them on the new maps anyways. Skill points? Only if you’re trying to get elite skills, and then you can happily leave. Group events? You might be lucky enough to find a populated map. Rewards? Well… if you absolutely can’t live without uncommon/masterwork gear, you’ll find it pretty rewarding.
The only thing that actually pushed me to play the maps was the mistward gear. Once that’s finished, it’s back to the other maps for me, heh. Only got the headwrap to go, so not much left… assuming I can ever find a map that completes the TD meta.
I don’t really think the maps are truly empty. I think the map assignment just needs to be reworked to address this issue. I believe there are multiple map instances opened but they are not systematically filled. When someone joins a map, he is not placed in a map that is most populated but assigned some other random map. These maps seemed to have been designed for large groups of people who know each other and want to play the map at the same time and coordinated to taxi each other into the same instance. Having a EOTM/WVW style of map assignment would not allow large guilds to join the same map as these maps would likely be filled before the guilds can fully join it. At the same time, it makes players’ life very difficult with so much organization work, and not being able to play the map whenever he wants to maybe because his friends or guildies don’t feel like playing it at that particular time.
Map progress may also be at play here, you lose any progress you have if you switch maps. I’ve staying longer in a particular map that gave me the option to leave because I wanted to preserve my progress. Map progress needs to be kept client side, not as a function of a particular map. But it seems more and more obvious that a lot of HoT is designed as a gold sink and to prevent significant gold acquisition.
Yeah… just the other day there was a pretty funny moment. In our instance of DS we had the final boss down to 50%. Pretty sure a few other instances did as well. Then there was a server flicker or something… everyone hit a loading screen. My squad of 20-30 people was littered across four or five different instances. People everywhere were spamming “??!?!?”. And to top it off, the boss had vanished and the objective box had changed to “everything is quiet” or something like that. I swapped instances via squad interface to look around, and there were quite a lot of stranded boss-fight groups. Wasn’t quite sure whether to laugh or cry, hah; we’d just waded through 1.3 hours of meta and I was 5 mins away from getting my mistward headwrap insignia… xP
Perhaps there should be a new term MMPO (Massively Multiplayer Persistent Online…"
Uh, you may have noticed that I didn’t say persistent was part of the term; I said it was one of the features.
From Wikipedia: A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG or MMO) is a video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously in the same instance (or world). By necessity, they are played over a network, such as the Internet.1 MMOs usually have at least one persistent world, however some games differ.
Regardless of how it is, it’s not the way it should be. Games aren’t supposed to mimic real life… unless they’re a Sims game and even then (in real life, you don’t take a poop on the floor if the bathroom door is shut…). But, if you’re going for real life-corporate analogies… the losers who just work for the man don’t get all the benefits the man does, so… there goes that.
I didn’t mean to be a knob… I guess I just get testy when people clearly don’t even try to see my point of view. And the run along now thing is something I picked up from a movie like a decade ago and I admittedly overuse it because it really suits my attitude… Apologies!
Certainly games aren’t going to completely mimic real life (although sometimes MMOs come close). Your “don’t get all the benefits the man does” line suits the way some guilds are set up, though, with restrictions per rank that only favor the top… ten, maybe.
But whether the game is mirroring reality or not, it’s in both the players’ and the developers’ best interest when the game provides options that cater to most (if not all) of the active players in a game. A lot of small guilds came over from GW1 (where small guilds can function very well) and have now been pushed to the side. They were Anet’s biggest source of income and loyalty (unless not all big guilds are loaded with AFK players), and now they’ve been stripped of all their earned upgrades – and then have been told to grow or die… =/
how many servers are there? in the hundreds. say 200.
200×64?
no clue how many servers there are but it gets more and more with each server. same for guild wars or did you think there is 7 million people online at the same time?
Except that one of the features of an MMO is a persistent instance that people can enter/leave at any time and then return to at any time. CoD? Nope. All instances last as long as a match and then dissolve. Planetside 2? That’s an MMOFPS.
so people you ask in games opinions matter more to you than the thousands of posts on these forums?well each to there own.
Also Reddit, if you want accurate representation reddit is the place to go, also a lot of post are made by a few people posting multiple times so thousand is kind of exaggeration , it is nothing compare to the GW2 population as a whole. The fact is people who are unhappy are way more likely to post on forum, and bad post here can not be down voted to oblivion like reddit.
If posts people simply disagree with are downvoted on Reddit, how is that representative? Doesn’t it simply mean that whoever gets there first, their opinion is the one on top? Be it positive or negative?
Reddit currently agrees with his opinion and so it is an accurate representation. If/When opinion on Reddit shifts so that it no longer agrees with him it will be biased and inaccurate.
Well…
1) there are people who have simply given up on the game and left without leaving feedback,
2) there are people who have simply given up on the game and said so on these forums, but nowhere else,
3) there are people who dislike the changes but grit their teeth rather than voice their concerns, and
4) there are people who dislike the changes and frequent the forums (which are the official forums for the game and don’t require creating a separate account) but don’t use Reddit.
Believe it or not, there are plenty of MMO gamers who simply aren’t social or don’t care to get involved in online discussion.
So I’m not sure why you’ve decided that because one channel (not even an official channel) agrees with an opinion, it is an accurate representation. There are countless people on these forums who are actually going out of their way to say “STOP COMPLAINING” (yep, in caps) in existing – and sometimes even new – threads. Taking Reddit information by itself is a very poor sample.
1)What’s your point? you listed bunch of reward that mastery never meant to give, mastery award you with new abilities and features . That is the best way of progression, we have other content to reward you gears and gold. Your points are illogical.
I’d like to address this for a ([Edit] long rambling) moment, if you don’t mind. (And if you DO mind… oops?)
Masteries in the HoT zones are painfully limited, because they’re just what I said. In the HoT zones. When you leave, you can’t glide, there’s no mushrooms to use, no Itzel or Exalted to talk to. You’re spending millions of EXP on abilities that can only be used in a very small part of the game.
When the next expansion comes out, do you really expect to use most of this again? Do you think we’ll be seeing the familiar tree frogs or mushrooms when we go to face Jormag? And if we use gliding again, do you really expect to be able to bypass the need to learn it in the new areas by having learned it in a different environment?
It’s like working to get a legendary, only to be told that you can only us it (weapon AND skin both) in Orr. With that kind of limitation on it, is it really worth it?
I have no problem with the Central Tyria Masteries, they’re actually an interesting idea. (I do dislike the rewards nerf that came with Fractal Mastery, but that’s a different subject.) The HoT Masteries, however, are a fairly large investment that will be wasted the moment the game moves on from that area.
ANet wanted a “Metroidvania” concept here, but they’ve missed something important. In a good Metroidvania game, the abilities you gain don’t just give you access to new areas. They’re useful everywhere, often making you stronger as well. Look at Super Metroid (one of the most classic examples of this type of game). The Morph Ball is HoT’s glider, a very basic “get somewhere” power used throughout the area. But it leads to Bombs and eventually Super Bombs, both useful in combat as well as opening new areas. You need Super Missles to open green doors, but you use those in boss fights as well. High Jump Boots (HoT’s jump mushrooms) lead to and are replaced by Space Jump, which gives way to the OP Screw Attack. The improved armors let you access new areas, but also make you tougher.
In HoT, the Morph Ball can only be used in Tourian, and there are no bombs. Profoundly less impressive and hardly something to go out of your way for.
Solid points. It’s something I’ve mentioned elsewhere – it’s one thing to add long-term horizontal progression for characters – it’s another thing entirely if 400 hours of progression turn out to be ultimately of no use outside one or two maps.
Man, If I had 1g for each time I died in the old world, because I forgot that gliders don’t work there, I’d be 20g richer.
Wait… that’s it? 20g? Wow. My leather satchels would be positively overflowing with gold.
Thud.
There I go again…
You know what would be funny… if every high speed ground impact caused our gold coins to fall our and scatter on the ground, like in those Sonic games. Then you’d have to quickly get up and collect your gold before somebody else did. And if you were defeated..they.. uh… actually, on second though, it’s not funny at all. kitten. I hope Anet doesn’t read this and get ideas.
Haha, the image. Well, between the Super Adventure Box and the new “adventures”, I wouldn’t say it’s the least likely upcoming patch.
(And guess who will be tagging along behind people who are wearing legendary armor, waiting for them to drop? Yup, me. With my -50% fall damage trait equipped.)
And neither does an MMO imply that everything should be able to be completed solo/co-op. Fractals/dungeons/raids force you to play with other people, and you hardly see anyone complaining about them.
Uh… I’ve seen quite a lot of people who are annoyed at dungeons/fractals because they get kicked out by groups that only want players experienced at the specific run. It’s possible that they don’t complain much these days because they’ve simply given up on that content.
And it’s funny that you mentioned raids, because there have been nonstop complaints about how raids were only for “elite” players and how most people wouldn’t be able to play them because “only guilds and specific builds will be accepted”. I’ve yet to hear how that’s turned out, but there were definitely enough complaints about it.
I don’t know man… That’s weird, the stuff you mentioned about fractals. I’ve been in about 200 fractal runs since HoT (1-50 mind you, mainly on the 21-50 end) and I’ve only gotten kicked once (bunch of idiots who turned a casual comment into hell), and I’ve only had people check my AR once as well. Other than that, they seem fine.
Keep in mind that I was only referring to people not complaining about having to group for that content- not individual complaints about certain aspects of the three.
Hmm, okay, fair enough. I mistyped when I included fractals, as I’ve only touched those once or twice ever – I’ve mainly gone dungeoneering. You won’t catch that many complaints about grouping for those anymore, as the chief complaint now is that dungeons simply aren’t worth it now.
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