Calling it now, well before we know anything.
There will be one encounter where you will need to have your warrior put on a hammer in the off-set to have enough CCs to break the defiance bar to stop the boss from killing your raid in one shot.
Aside from that, it’s really on the devs to provide encounters that make full damage literally not optimal in some fights, like unavoidable damage that just barely downs you if you are full berserker for instance or other such concepts. …Upon further reflection that would be a silly concept as it would be the difference of a single piece of gear, but my point stands that perhaps some encounters could be made where you need a bit more toughness or vitality to endure endless damage pressure which can’t be mitigated by blinds or reflects or blocks.
I believe that is what was hinted with the ‘Colin’ talk where every profession can provide their own incentive to bringing them along.
…Though I agree with Perry, poor necros/rangers.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Sykper.6583
Which is why I said we shouldn’t compare what WoW ‘Raiding’ is to what GW2 ‘Raiding’ is.
It could be as similar as Red and Green apples, but the smallest changes in how Raiding is introduced and the encounters work can make even non-raiders feel like taking on the challenge.
Not to mention our community as a whole is beyond phenomenal. There’s a much broader array of guilds who will be capable of going into the Raid content. Yes, some of these guilds might want to ‘flaunt’ their legendary rewards, however I easily see friendly guilds who do not even raid slowly build up their efforts to tackle the goal after weeks, or months of raiding.
Without attunements (which were a whole other issue with pre-WotLK raiding) there’s no need to go on tediously long and sometimes difficult quests. Without gear treadmills anyone can come and fill the part if someone has to bow out. At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if in-game in front of the raid instance Arenanet puts down a toggled sign that reads ‘Welcome to Raiding one and all!’
I don’t see any of the ‘lording over plebeians’ occurring constantly when players begin completing their legendary gear, that will be a minor occurrence from the same people who list LFGs for CoF1 asking for Warriors, and they themselves can’t do the dungeon themselves and blame others in an ironic fashion.
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Sykper.6583
Nobody’s talking about “facerolling” anything except for straw men, but there should be alternatives that don’t involve having to participate in raiding. Raiding is not for everybody, that’s one of the main reasons why GW2 has players, because some people didn’t want to be playing WoW.
You probably misheard Colin but Gw2 raids are not WoW raids.
From what I read on their website, that’s pretty much what I gathered, though. Instances with (gimmick) mechanics that require you to execute certain steps in a certain order inside a very small margin of error to get exclusive shinies to brag with. That’s…WoW.
That’s called good pve content, that all other MMO’s have.
I’m sorry your blind hatred of WoW and general lack of MMO experience causes you to not see this.
Let’s just disagree on that. Yes, I hate scripted gimmick fights (and that’s the only thing I actually hate WoW for, btw – for inflicting this stuff on the MMO genre, because they really came up with it). Scripted fights are ultimately boring and the only reason why they are difficult at all is their ridiculously low margin for error in execution.
What I don’t understand nor ever will understand is why fans of said content come to the ONLY game not having it and nag the devs for three years to add it, instead of simply playing one of the 20 WoW clones providing that exact content.
Me? I was very happy that GW2 didn’t make me feel like a second class player and lock me out from content and desirable items just because I don’t and never will like WoW-style raids. There is a reason why I liked GW2 you know? It NOT being like other MMOs. Thing of the past, I guess. You guys couldn’t let people like me have ONE game that’s different and didn’t make me feel left out just because I don’t want to raid or be in a raiding guild. Congratulations. You won. I lost. I guess in the end the loudest voice always wins after all and I have to give it to the raiding crowd that they were both loud and persistent.
1) We don’t know how Raid bosses in GW2 will play out as opposed to what we know WoW has. There will probably be similarities (% health phase changes, or special debuffs or whatever) however GW2 combat is substantially different than what we know from the holy trinity group compositions other MMO Raids are based on. Colin mentioned this specifically, and suggested heavily that you shouldn’t be forced to switch characters to fulfill a role you can do on your main. It’s likely the only mechanics that will be allowed to go into GW2 Raids are ones where as long as you have enough players performing some mechanic (like control, damage, support or moving correctly) you can get away with running any composition. I don’t see these Raid bosses being too predictable…
2) Raids will never have an attunement and there’s zero requirements for merely entering. And while Ascended is the top tier stats in this game Exotic quality items are likely what said raids will base their balance around. I can say this because the ‘Legendary Armor’ fulfills many benefits even providing an Ascended Quality piece to the one who makes it eventually. They COULD balance around all 10 players with Ascended, however the degree of difficulty and absolute ‘perfect play’ required I easily imagine won’t be too punishing. We aren’t going to get a bunch of encounters like 0 Light Yogg-Saron, the curve will likely start from whatever level we players reach from exploring the Magumma jungle after a few weeks, and take it a few notches up.
Nobody who advocated for Raids wanted WoW style, that’s why we are playing GW2.
You have a point!
I want to make a petition to change our name to ‘Dragon Warrior’.
Clearly Berserker is used way too much in this game already, we need something original and more befitting of our Profession.
You guys are mighty docile.
Honestly impressed by the amount of discipline (hurr) to avoid creating thread after thread crying out about certain aspects of our profession or our specialization.
Let’s keep it that way, and in about 10 days give or take be capable of providing constructive, non-rabid feedback about what we warriors need for our core and new specializations to make us work in HoT.
Just wanted to let you guys know that, that’s all.
- Just another Warrior.
Given how far Warrior as a profession has fallen in terms of damage dealing and survivability, players will now take anything thrown their way.
On the side, your posts makes you sound like a mod or ANet employee pretending to be a customer getting people to like ANet more. Just a feeling.
Eh, never really thought of it much. In reality I just find posts of constant spewing vile without any real substance rather short-sighted. There’s a difference between “This is such a horrible change, just don’t do it, revert all the work and start from scratch” and “Well so I disagree with all of this, here’s why I think it needs a lot of work”.
…It’s funny you say say I sound very ‘Pro-Anet’, I often self-edit my posts prior to posting them, I believe this last week if I had posted the first iteration of my posts I might have ended up temporarily banned…
Overall though, I guess I am a little more hopeful for HoT than many people are.
You guys are mighty docile.
Honestly impressed by the amount of discipline (hurr) to avoid creating thread after thread crying out about certain aspects of our profession or our specialization.
Let’s keep it that way, and in about 10 days give or take be capable of providing constructive, non-rabid feedback about what we warriors need for our core and new specializations to make us work in HoT.
Just wanted to let you guys know that, that’s all.
- Just another Warrior.
Uh,
You know, I was kind of expecting a 5 person cleave on the Staff…
So, if you wanted to go hybrid damage, I imagine SwSh / MaSw OR if you wanted condition, SwTr / MaSw OR LB would be your flavors.
Ehm Sw/Sw with Ma/Tr maybe? Mace has a blast finisher and torch a fire field, if you wanna play a condition build, that should be obvious?
SwTr provides synergy in Fire-LeapFin and mobility with potential to cripple the intended target before you even get close with your actual sword. Great for crippling foes on point without the need to actually be next to them, and the condition damage isn’t half bad.
MaSw is the bulk of your conditions, two high threat pressure between impale which is a consistent torment application IF IT HITS (Everyone hates Torment) or Primal Burst Mace which can be comboed with a weapon swap, Berserk into the Burst, the real pressure is the layers of really debilitating conditions (Just put a Sigil of Doom on it as well for another layer).
A lot of issues with the warrior is that we have been predictable with our weapon sets, the Torch adds an element we should probably exploit to make things difficult for opponents to predict, which has been our biggest downside.
Don’t forget Mace Primal Burst, it acts as an interrupt and provides a couple layers of conditions, including 4 stacks of confusion which will disrupt the opponent.
Mace is not condi weapon so i guess this is for interrupt warriors with perplexity runes. Not a majority of condition users.
I wouldn’t say that, since Warrior conditions have been more or less on the weaker side of things.
What’s interesting about the Berserker in general is the amount of CCs from slight CCs like half-second dazes to outright blowouts. This might cater to more Body Blow / Distracting Strikes interrupt type builds.
If you really want to get into it, Mace main-hand is somewhat hybrid, with Mace 1 being an chain into an unreliable weakness application, Mace 2 is a block to counter which is absolutely power. However, Mace 3 is a low-damage daze while the burst has been a long-term stun. Flipping the Burst into a Primal Burst, it becomes short-term daze with multiple conditions which makes it more of a condition weapon with interrupt capabilities.
So, if you wanted to go hybrid damage, I imagine SwSh / MaSw OR if you wanted condition, SwTr / MaSw OR LB would be your flavors.
I can probably mock up some builds, but overall I think testing everything live would give us a better picture. I do not intend to disregard Condition Berserker just yet.
You don’t feel a single target 10-12k hit or an AoE 6k hit warrant a telegraphed charge-up?
Have you considered using other weapon or utility mechanics available to you to aid in securing this huge hit?
^^
Frenzy, Berserker Stance, and Signet of Might all exist. That’s why so many Warriors run Killshot builds in sPvP! Oh wait…
Nobody wants to blow all their cooldowns on a burst that can still get easily dodged, invuln’d, obstructed, or otherwise avoided.
Like all these new burst skills, Gun Flame looks great when used against stationary target golems, but it still has the same fatal flaw as Killshot. Unless you guys start thinking practically, you can file this one under “WvW gimmick builds only.”
Well not exactly, by default as soon as you enter Berserker Stance you get 2 seconds quickness without the need to utilize a utility slot. The frequency where you can pull off Gun Flame is much superior since it isn’t reliant on utilities or Major traits.
Summary:
One side values skins at looks and what seems more convenient for them, and want to encourage access to any and all skins through any method of the player’s choosing.
Another side values skins based on their attainment requirements and to some extent exclusivity, looks matter a bit less (typically the skins that have said requirements are often catered to a good theme or look anyways).
And neither side will reach a compromise (solutions seem to compromise the positions on either side). I believe we have reached an impasse since any and all arguments at this point have gone full circle.
As the OP has pointed out they won’t be compromising their position at any single regard, this is no longer a debate or real conversation that can bear any sort of merit going forward. I am eager to see what comes this next saturday, and I wish everyone the best of luck should things not be what they expected or wanted.
Don’t forget Mace Primal Burst, it acts as an interrupt and provides a couple layers of conditions, including 4 stacks of confusion which will disrupt the opponent.
Lol, 2/3 of the gameplay systems, but not 2/3 of the actual players by ANY stretch. The game is broken up into three systems because each represents a very distinct gameplay style that mixes poorly with the other. Don’t let that confuse you into believing that they are each equally as important to the players, or the developers. sPvP is a sideshow at best.
The game’s very design, everything from environments to player movements and capabilities, has catered to both PvE and PvP since its birth from both a developer standpoint and a marketing one. Regardless of how you feel, or how popular certain other modes are, PvE, WvW, and SPvP are the founding roots of GW2, to rip one of them out would be senseless and send the game into a downward spiral for failing at even its most basic promises. To even suggest that resources not be put into other modes than PvE, and I rather not insult, but it shows a distinct lack of understanding of how GW2 should be. You are not taking an informed position.
They would like to see sPvP and WvW succeed, which is why they waste so much time and good will updating it and trying to figure out new ways to bribe their PvE players into playing it, but the players never bite.
Given the philosophy of the trinity Arenanet has set forth, they can and probably will do so. The PvP only backpiece is a solid first step towards trying to pull new and old players into SPvP to try to get it, it helps make SPvP more appealing to those who want that skin. Of course, given the entirety of this discussion you would rather the skin be available through some other trivial routine content on a different scale of difficulty than SPvP and support the dissolution of it. I’d rather not chop off a pillar for the game thank you very much. I would rather see players go through both envy and awe, perhaps even jealousy that they need to actually try their best for a reward well earned. But that’s too much work right?
If you believe that then you don’t understand my point at all. My point is, I’m pretty good at the game, and I’m certainly a lot better than when I started, and hope to get better still. But if you put an objective in front of me and tell me “you need to get better if you want to get this thing,” then that does not encourage me, it only frustrates me. I do not want to get better because you tell me to get better, I want to get better at whatever pace I get better, and do not want to wait to get that reward until I have.
So if you ask me how many players have any interest in ever improving, then sure, most of them probably. But if you ask me how many players would be satisfied with the answer “get better at the game” as a reason to why they cannot have something that they want, then that number is much much smaller.
I don’t understand that line. From the very moment you picked up this game you are put on a path to learn and grow. Going into dungeons for the first time, learning the rotations for your profession, all of this requires some amount of work. You even admit to wanting to get the reward when you finally reach the point where you have gotten better enough to earn it. Great! Take that mentality to Heart of Thorns and try out group content until you succeed at it!
Things like frustration are a part of learning something new, it might not even be that satisfying until you accomplish the task, that’s the whole point! And the very last point where you believe players will be dissatisfied with how the content ‘forces you to get better’ really hinges on whatever metrics you pulled from whatever your perception is. I can’t really blame you as I hold a much higher regard for players actually accepting Heart of Thorns for what it might bring to the table.
Sure, and I don’t dispute that, I appreciate their help when offered, and offer my own help any time I can, we have a great community. I’m just saying, jn this case I don’t need them to be my ally, I just need them to understand that I don’t want to do that content, and don’t want to have to do it to get any rewards I might want. I don’t need their help, I just need them to not get in my way.
I just wanted to quote your final paragraph, because I want you to put that into your OP at the very top. That is all.
You don’t feel a single target 10-12k hit or an AoE 6k hit warrant a telegraphed charge-up?
Have you considered using other weapon or utility mechanics available to you to aid in securing this huge hit?
^^
sPvP was, is, and will remain unpopular because most players do not want to PvP, no matter how much ANet tries to bribe them into it. The only thing that I could see making sPvP into “a thing” would be if they made it completely F2P (as in no box), because at least it could then compete fairly with games like LoL. As it stands, the only people playing are a subset of the people willing to pay to buy GW2, and the people paying to buy GW2 are just not PvPers (in numbers larger than you currently see in PvP). There is nothing whatsoever they can do to make the sPvP numbers significantly large than they are from the existing pool of GW2 players, that would nto be straight up bribing players into not having fun.
Utter insanity, there is literally 2/3rds of the game dedicated to some form of Player Versus Player. Certainly SPvP was the vast lesser of what composes the GW2 trinity, but as previously stated from the gutter that was SPvP to what it can potentially become in HoT with Leagues, is a step in the right direction not just for current players but new ones. The price tag means nothing provided SPvP brings the experience to full-time SPvP players, especially those in LoL or any other ‘ESports’ who pay for arbitrary skins. And your blanket statements about how any PvE players won’t have fun in this new system is utterly unwarranted.
On the WvW side, well, if you are familiar with the GvG / OS debacle, the reason WvW masteries were brought into play, the refurbishing of the Borderland Maps with Ruin objectives. Any of those instances are Arenanet telling us that there is enough incentive to put resources into those things. Again proving that PvE isn’t the only realm that matters, PvP does to the populace.
5%, maybe 10%?
I mean, if you mean “how many of them want to improve at their own pace, over time, with no pressure on them to do so?” Then maybe closer to 80%+, but if you mean “how many want to ‘git gud’ so they can run hardcore content and get the rewards they want,” then yeah, like 10% or so.
That entire paragraph goes back on itself. You agree on the premise that a vast majority of the players who can’t get the skin they want immediately but will do so over a time, yet slightly ‘change the wording’ on the previous phrase creates a whole new %.
What you should have said was ‘If you mean “how many of them want to improve at their own pace, over time, with no pressure on them to do so?” Then maybe closer to 80%+’ because that is exactly what I meant, not your spin on it. If a player has the capacity to not keep trying the same old failed approach, to actually improve on how they play, they will at some point get what they want. This is no different than someone who is god-awful at jumping puzzles but wants those achievement points continuing to try again and again until they start jumping at different angles or from another side. It’s called PROGRESS.
Oh, probably like 60%+, plenty of those, mainly because they want people to play with in those high tier areas and are desperate to convert people, but again, most people don’t want to be converted.
We can agree on everything but the last bit you added. A lot of us players would love to help out others, we do it implicitly in this game by its very design. There’s no competing for mining nodes, or ‘tagging’ mobs, in PvE we are all cooperating for the same things. Certainly, there are a substantial minority who seek efficiency (like dungeons 80s only full zerk) which are a result of another fundamental issue with PvE we are all intimately familiar with. But if challenging content arrives, everyone will more or less be your ally.
The point is not necessarily to reach any compromise or consensus, but to establish what should happen. It really comes down to the relative size of the two camps, and it’s not about making both camps equally happy, it’s about making the large camp as happy as possible, and the smaller camp as happy as possible in a way that won’t reduce the happiness of the larger camp. In GW2’s community, which camp do you believe is larger?
And that is what will kill the game. It is what has been killing the game for years, this lack of a drive towards actually playing the game. GW2 has, I believe many will attest and agree with me, the greatest combat system in a MMO seen yet with such fluid dynamic content. Yet we and arenanet months ago were left at an impasse where specifically in PvE the challenge simply was not there. You can argue the current “hardcore” content is plenty challenge enough for a great number of players, but the fact is with all the ‘trains’ in this game being the most efficient way to work on Horizontial progression, I can easily assure you that your own ‘crowd’ will eventually get bored of it and leave GW2 as well.
Put bluntly, the sheer request to universalize any and all unique loot that can come out of HoT will Kill this game. Because it’s unsustainable, and with how rewards (or horizontial progression actually is) being focused around what is most efficient rather than what is most achievable… The game will turn into a smoldering husk in no time since veterans (Everyone turns into one at some point) will get tired of the same old efficient trends.
SPvP has been in a half-living state since launch, with leaderboards finally being implemented and a notable, unique reward for players who do a LOT of SPvP and coming out victorious it might make a comeback. Why was it unpopular before though? Outside of the constant unbalance and stale metas that come with it, the rewards for anyone wanting to get into SPvP were not there. They still aren’t quite there, a player at the highest MMR possible with such long queue times will get the same reward for winning their match than someone going into Ranked the first time.
If rewards don’t match the risk, if skins, titles, unique trophies aren’t symbols of achievement through actually taking up the PvE trials and succeeding, than this game is done. Heart of Thorns needs to shave off this effective ‘This gets me everything’ mentality and get players to go into certain content they might disagree with, or have struggles as performing the task.
Another thing, and this is important. Just because the content might be unbearable to the absolutely soft-minded few doesn’t mean they have to do it alone. ‘Challenging Group Content’ means you don’t do it alone, you work with allies or strangers, potentially new friends since MMOs are like that. Even living story instances can be grouped up for! Some of the achievements are really grueling solo, and I beat Liandri if that’s any worth to anyone but with friends, things get a lot easier.
Finally, your two group analogy indeed does make sense…in a vacuum. Tell me, can you measure how many people in the ‘Average or less skill’ group have a drive to improve or get better at this game? And then take how many players from the ‘Higher Skill’ camp and ask them how they feel about lending a helping hand to those who want to learn how to face the challenge in question and work together towards a common goal of good loot.
I bet the numbers are much higher than what you think in both those catagories.
ROFL already talking about nerfing warriors, yet again? They are the bottom of the barrel in PvP.
I think it beats the Necromancer Reaper nerfs that came out before the first testing of Reaper in terms of crying.
Don’t worry Necrobros, I remember.
You are correct, I am assuming and guessing at things along with everyone else here. If it has a cumulative effect like hearthstone, then there is nothing wrong with it going that way imo. my only concern was locking the end reward down to the top players of pvp… which makes it exclusive and controllable by the elite players. which imo is a bad idea.
With non-regressive tiers, its possible for anyone to reach legendary with enough games played, since the moment you pass the tier you never go back.
I suppose it’s just a matter of when that matters.
I could systematically go through each and every single thing the Berserker offers.
OR, I can go stomp rabbits and build up my anger, cause IMAZERKER!
…The only downside is that from first glance it’s very likely Berserker could replace every build except maybe PS, which is a bit contrary to what Specializations were supposed to be, an alternative playstyle and not necessarily overwhelming the base.
Perhaps we all could have saved the effort and just agreed on the OP’s choice of a thread name and moved on, because yes some people don’t like hard mode, and a crocodile tear will be shed when a skin they want is locked behind the challenge, not gained through other means like gold or karma or gems.
Though, admittedly thanks to this thread next week’s announcement ought to be quite amusing as well as hyped to watch.
A skin’s merit (not its look) is diminished the more alternatives to achieving it there are.
No. Skin’s merit lies in its look. What you are talking is skin’s exclusivity, which is a separate thing, even if it’s tied to the same object. A skin looks equally good (or bad) regardless if it’s a common drop or is something only one person in the game can have. It’s bragging value does diminish with introducing more alternatives, but it’s completely independent from the skin itself (after all, exclusivity is in no way dependant on how the object looks like).
Then we will have to disagree ultimately on this point, and I doubt either of us will concede to one side or another.
If the Lawless Helmet given its ‘unique’ look were instead of a Gem Store Skin a skin out of a truly grueling ‘end-game instance’, you would absolutely be seeing a lot more of it being used, I would use it and find armor that made it look kitten beautiful. In reality, yes fashion is a factor in GW2 as part of Horizontial progression, but not when the progression is a step-stool as opposed to a tall ladder.
…Not to offend anyone who has the skin right now. I mean to each their own…
Putting this out there.
A skin’s merit (not its look) is diminished the more alternatives to achieving it there are. Making a skin exclusive to a ‘challenging’ area of content, yet also attainable through a much easier method elsewhere, subsequently makes it less exclusive thus making players who attempt the ‘challenging’ method feel like their time was wasted when they could have done the easier method multiple times over for greater effect. And ultimately does nothing to solve the problems in GW2 Horizontial Progression, which there is currently none of.
That’s what this is really all about, there’s a lack of Horizontial Progression, or making efforts to gain every skin, every title, every cosmetic as right now a vast majority of it can be reached with enough gold or easier alternative means (Ambrite Weapons earned in PvE versus SPvP). Certain Living Story skins are exclusive in a sense of whether or not you were playing the game at the time and making achievement progress towards it, not too bad by design as it shows age and commitment for the player in question who has it. But there are no true skins that, through the social nature of this MMO, skilled players can show that designate the trials they went through, the EFFORT made.
We need exclusivity as it brings about it new Horizontial Progression we haven’t seen since people started making progress towards the first legendaries, towards doing explorable dungeons for the first time. And there can’t be other easier methods of gaining these exclusive skins.
I still don’t understand this resistance towards ‘harder content’ coming out.
Did every “casual” player quit the game at release when they couldn’t figure out how to beat a certain skill-point or do AC Story for the first time? How about Orr Events where you really needed to group up to go fight the Priest of Baltazar?
Stop being intimidated by the thought of having to learn new mechanics, or needing to make opportunities to press 100b. Or learning to dodge!
RoF wouldn’t be nearly as good if Conquest wasn’t the mode people cared about (even though Stronghold is still trying to be there).
…Actually I think the same crowd who hated Combustive Shot shifted gears to RoF since Warriors have dropped pretty far.
I definitely understand wanting something you like to be made readily available to you. The problem with applying that philosophy too liberally is that
1) if you get everything you want, you have less motivating you to play
2) it destroys the social motivation system which is so important to MMOs. A cool and difficult to acquire skin isn’t just enjoyable for the person who owns it. It also adds to the experience of everyone who sees it in the possession of the person who owns it. It’s an important atmospheric element of any MMO, and a short-sighted “I want it, give” mentality will completely destroy that.
This is the main counter-point and everything Arewn has said I agree with completely.
I hate to allude to WoW but their ‘Competitive PvE Content’ despite having the never-ending tier level of gear levels was on another level extremely well-thought out. Raids bestowed a long-lasting end-game that would get added to again and again until the next expansion that reset progression. Guilds would compete not just for World Firsts but for achievements through how they looked, how much stronger they got, and it showed in Town-Hubs. I remember playing back then and getting asked all the time about certain raid pieces of gear I had and I linked it to the inquirers, and rather than get upset some felt ‘impressed’ and wanted to get the content done themselves.
Unique Rewards for challenging content, provided that everyone can ACCESS the content but have to use their own skill and ingenuity to complete will not discourage folks, it gives people something to look forward to and work towards. It is a bit different than Legendary Crafting which is getting a massive overhaul thanks to Precursor crafting coming out which is perfect. And honestly it is something absolutely needed in this game.
Honest opinion / observation?
Outside of Min/Max builds (I mean, specifically have certain pieces of armor with certain stats) the reason why Berserker on Warrior does so well is not because of what we are running, but rather because of what other players run. Warriors in Berserker facing other berserker professions, outside of being ambushed have a slight advantage due to carrying the higher health pool to take the extra hit which can make or break a fight as well as skill (which especially given our current status in this game plays a heavy role).
That said, there is a certain luxury to having defensive stats which can mitigate an extra bursty strike to prolong the fight as a high health profession. Ultimately, not to offend or anything, two Warriors fighting with similar builds but one is glassier and one is tougher, does NOT come down nearly as much to stats as it does to skill.
Simply put, those instances you probably played into their hands, Berserker is still the way to go for contribution in more scenarios than what you experienced.
So PS will grant Might and Quickness to allies when you gain it? Just clarifying.
Gonna keep it short and sweet. This kind of reasoning will apply ANYWHERE.
- Warriors have Effective but Predictable attacks.
- Warriors have no access to powerful active defenses outside of Stances, which are inhibited to being used once (twice if really elongated fight) in a skirmish. Stances also negatively influence the Warrior’s mobile or offensive utility elsewhere. (For instance, full Stance Warrior has no gap closers outside his weapons, which carry moderate to long cooldowns and as stated previously, are predictable)
- Susceptibility to conditions, specifically Blind, pigeon-hole Warriors into very few versatile builds, when coupled with the implicit predictability and the Stance inhibiting Warrior potential, makes us a counterable and unfortunately ‘routine’ fight across any build.
- Toughness has never been so weak since the balance patch.I can go into detail, but these are the exact reasons for the Warrior status across all game-modes.
1) Not all warrior weapons skills are equally effective (compare GS dps output to any other wepon set, for example)
2) Toughness is a real issue for us and I don’t see it being solved easily. With the current burst damage being so high, toughness isn’t as effective as active defenses (evades, blocks, blinds etc.). Having in mind that toughness comes at an even higher cost of DPS output you end up a bit more tanky but unable to kill anything on your own. This kills tanky builds (and condi builds) and forces a warrior to go full zerker in order to “burst before get bursted”
Even if you try to fix toughness to provide more survivability, you ’ll end up making Guards too hard to die.
To elaborate, my first point on effective attacks does correlate to yours. About half of the Warrior weapons are amazing at what their intended purpose is, the Greatsword is the definitive melee damage pressure weapon, as no one wants to eat a 100b to the face. Whereas the Hammer might suffer from its rate of dealing damage, it gains in impressive soft and hard CC. Sorry if I wasn’t being more clear on that point, as I can also agree some weapons are lackluster (Rifle).
Regardless of how much Guardians might be more difficult to deal with, Toughness is a huge part of our mitigation, its our second half to balance with our health pool. Before our health meant something when coupled with Toughness, creating a substantial ‘Effective Health Pool’ that was matched or beaten only by Necros (whom although can have higher EHP, often get demolished due to their lack of passive defenses and mechanics, well until Reaper comes out).
Personally I believe we might get an advantage over Guardians, however slight, if Toughness were buffed a bit. Still, my other points stand firm.
I would be fine if there were Division Regression across the board.
There probably should be Division Regression for the 4th and onward Divisions. And adjust rewards accordingly for the first three tiers so those who have a modest interest in SPvP but are not committed enough can run at the very highest between Divisions 3 and 4, while the 4th, 5th and Legendary Divisions are where the concentration of pure SPvPers lie.
If Division regression is not an option, than make the cost of loss in the highest division outside of Legendary (since you can’t technically drop out of the division when you arrive) extremely painful. Talking like making up 10 wins to cover the lost match.
You simply need to lay the field down at a location of your best judgement, and under the tooltips for your skills and utilities you can see what ‘Combo Finishers’ they can perform.
The finisher will always proc the field when the effect of the attack goes off within it, for instance Earthshaker can start off the field and land inside it to perform its Blast Finish.
Projectile Finishers can be different though, some have percentages when they proc and others are always proccing.
So solo queue is lb/xx or gs/xx whichever works. Qq aside I have a stupid question to ask.
Wtf is a fire field and/or a combo? I’ve noticed skills have combo finisher: blast or whatever in the tool tip… Why? I’ve never asked this or looked into this before
Fire Field is a type of ‘Field’ that ‘Finishers’ can utilize for additional effects. Fire specifically can add burning to your projectiles, grant a Flame Aura when you leap through it, or if you Blast into it, grant Might.
This is what makes Combustive Shot, I dare say the most potent thing a Warrior can do on a point.
Gonna keep it short and sweet. This kind of reasoning will apply ANYWHERE.
- Warriors have Effective but Predictable attacks.
- Warriors have no access to powerful active defenses outside of Stances, which are inhibited to being used once (twice if really elongated fight) in a skirmish. Stances also negatively influence the Warrior’s mobile or offensive utility elsewhere. (For instance, full Stance Warrior has no gap closers outside his weapons, which carry moderate to long cooldowns and as stated previously, are predictable)
- Susceptibility to conditions, specifically Blind, pigeon-hole Warriors into very few versatile builds, when coupled with the implicit predictability and the Stance inhibiting Warrior potential, makes us a counterable and unfortunately ‘routine’ fight across any build.
- Toughness has never been so weak since the balance patch.
I can go into detail, but these are the exact reasons for the Warrior status across all game-modes.
Y-yea…
The issue with Shoutbow now is that you have to really rely on +1 tactics to do well with it both aggressively and defensively. Which means teamplay, which means premades and not solo queue. Solo queuing as a shoutbow is a big gamble on how well your teammates pick up on what you can do for them and what they should do for you…
Good luck with that!
It’s very possible that your MMR is SO high that the matchmaker doesn’t expand enough to grab people to play with.
I’m investigating some numbers and math and stuff.
Are you saying Nos has won all GW2 SPvP technically speaking since there are no opponents that readily come close to his MMR?
In a way, kinda funny.
Something that bothered me about Zhaitan was that during the conversations about the ‘Eyes’ and the ‘Mouths’ of Zhaitan it was seemingly implied (to me) that Zhaitan operated differently than other Elder Dragons when it needed to see or consume things.
Perhaps the Ogden quote suggested that yes, there was something ‘not quite a language’ being spoken as Elder Dragon…ese… but whether or not each Elder Dragon has its own method of ‘vocalizing’ that language is in the air.
Not to mention Mordremoth is the Dragon of Plant and Mind correct? The Latter Sphere might lend some precedent to why the Minds of Sylvari (whom were intended to be its servants originally) could hear his voice.
Title confused me.
Did you mean ‘Exclusive-PvP-reward-YESSS!’?
That should be the only reaction to this.
It says you drop tiers. Tiers are different sections within divisions.
Here’s the full description from Curse:
“There are six Divisions, starting with Amber and ending at Legendary. Divisions are broken up into a variable number of tiers, and each tier has several pips. To cross into the next division, you must complete all the tiers in your current division.
“Division 1, the starter division, will only award forward progress, but once you hit Division 2 and 3, winning begins to matter as you will begin to lose pips when you lose matches. Note, you won’t lose tiers, just pips. Once you hit Division 4 and 5, the advanced divisions, you’ll have to step up your game, as you can lose pips and tiers. A big thing to note is that you will never go back to a previous division during a season, so if you do fail, there is a limit to how far you’ll be set back. The final division is the Legendary Division. It’s a repeatable division that provides a higher tier of rewards.”
These sound more like glorified reward tracks than actual leagues — particularly the part about farming the legendary division over and over.
But, again, I think that’s fine because it seems like guild team leaderboards, which will be used to qualify for tournaments, will be ELO-based.
At that same juncture, it seems like those who SPvP more will have a better time advancing since there doesn’t seem to be a risk to get knocked down a division. It only takes a bit of luck to get matched up with a series of good teammates to push you over to the next division.
BUT, this is still good. If I were Arena-net, this first rendition of Leagues would be to analyze the density of players across the divisions and get metrics on how many advance, how many fall back, how many linger at the lowest pip of the lowest tier, etc.
Ultimately when the numbers really start coming in, they might make the divisions even more closely related to LoL’s system by introducing things like diminishing rank due to inactivity or things of that sort.
There’s a lot that could be done, but I am quite happy that something like this will be coming, it was the biggest thing that held me personally back from SPvPing more than I was now.
Actually I have a question to all Mesmers.
Do you feel like Chronomancer carries the ‘alternative’ playstyle to your profession or does it ‘improve’ upon Mesmer? Can you explain why in either case? Just curious.
In the previous meta, warriors used to decide matches. Since the update, they’ve fallen quite a bit. They could use a little buff, but rampage would have to be dealt with.
Of course, now that they can’t tank several mesmer bursts, they’ve been out in full force complaining about them rather than dealing with the deficiencies in their class.
TBF, the whole ‘How Warriors feel about Mesmers’ has been around a long time. There are many of us who do have been outspoken about attempting to increase our impact as a profession overall (some to the extreme, Deimos*cough*) or perhaps requesting additional profession mechanics to add complexity and depth to the profession.
And, in true fashion that everyone here knows from their own personal experience, we get silence. I think I could write a small novel on many fields a warrior needs help with, without even comparing the Warrior to other professions.
Although the traps are effective, the channel time is still crippling outside of the Elite Shout, even a 1/4 decrease in channel time would vastly improve the traps across the board.
Also I think if LB3’s projectile went a bit slower, but did a bit more raw damage it would be just about perfect.
LB4 suits well as hybrid damage with support.
I was playing a lot of DH yesterday both in PvE and WvW.
It’s not even remotely comparable to the normal Damage Meta Guardian used in Dungeons so from that perspective it definitely can’t fit in the open world (unless the zerker meta really gets tossed around in HoT).
However, from a WvW perspective I found it to be an amazing backline, the traps I used and mixing in ‘Feel My Wrath’ to help channeling LB 5 and the traps either offensively and defensively really helped make them shine!
…But it could use some work.
Setting the tone, if you are running berserker, the zone will be much more damaging than you are used to. Running Glass cannon carries some risk now.
Snipers are fine.
No they’re not. snipers are fine is ur opinion, mine differs. Trash mobs should never be that op where u have to use all ur recourses to beat them, especially with the huge numbers of these trash mobs everywhere, even during the day, night time is ridiculous.
Opinions are fine, and I am certain the devs will listen to all opinions and suggestions made by players here and act accordingly. I personally disagree with all your points, and there’s likely some folks who think the challenge isn’t great enough, or something in-between the both of us.
Either way, I’m happy where the ‘Normal’ is for the Magumma Zone.
Setting the tone, if you are running berserker, the zone will be much more damaging than you are used to. Running Glass cannon carries some risk now.
Snipers are fine.
Warrior is easy to pick up and play, and has effective skills.
…But its no longer near or at the top of the most faceroll. Warrior is probably in its 2nd weakest incarnation right now, 1st being Release.
As for Faceroll? Don’t really care for it, I just want to point out that Warrior definitely isn’t it anymore.
Right, so first off.
Go to Options, Remove Screen Shake.
Not sure why no one has informed you, but the shake will disrupt your ability to recognize animations any enemy is doing, so turn it off for a better and smoother looking fight.
Lighter has already suggested some options, but as a Stance Warrior you will be timing your Berserker stance as a ‘retaliation’ for the most part rather than an aggressive tool against a thief. Bad to average thiefs will steal to popping their ‘Warrior Steal’ on you under a smoke cloud, Berserker Stance will negate the blind spam while you plow into them. Otherwise, if the thief is smart he will drop the bundle and escape into stealth and you will have to play accordingly. Thief Stealth isn’t nearly as unpredictable as Mesmer, estimate at least between a second or three seconds before the thief attempts something.
There isn’t much outside of that I can give you, the rest is skill.
The issue becomes what does the Warrior offer his team that another profession can’t compete with?
I would play a thief or mesmer to do the only role a Warrior is building right now, and although it was extremely gimmicky Rampage pre-nerf was at least giving us a potential slot in a team.
…Now Warriors will have to wait till relative power comes back our way, through power being lost from the top tier. Or, they could make Shoutbow a thing again I suppose.
I can already predict that the ‘short and sweet’ fractal runs will probably be getting some unbearably hard fractal instability (or 2 or 3) that makes it nigh impossible to farm reliably without being extremely good. Although it might come down to between Mossman and Bloomhunger encounters which make the difference…
It was very much a needed nerf. They had waay too much burst for a single combo.
Maybe, but now with the Air/Fire sigil nerf (assuming it’s intended), the mirror blade nerf needs reverted.
what was the nerf?
If I’m not mistaken, they had their damage lowered to about 2/3 what they were previously.
Just to clarify, Prisoner did the math on the thread about it on the PvP forum:
A test with 30 samples gave coefficients of 0.635 (fire) and 0.823 (air). Previous coefficients were 0.85 and 1.1, so these are very close to a 25% damage reduction. I suspect the true values are probably 0.6375 and 0.825 for the exact 25% reduction.
Looking in at this from a bit of an outside angle, as I haven’t done fractals in a long time (though I did farm up beyond 40+) the Weapons were more or less an indication of an experienced Fractal Runner.
- With RNG in play, even getting the right Fractal Skin to use on future Fractal runs was difficult. Those who run around with Fractal Weapons in their main builds more often than not got other lesser used weapons prior.
- They were also a sign of at least knowledge of many or all of the fractals and their mechanics.
…Honestly, the Fractal Weapons weren’t prestige. However, depending on the requirements for the Fractal Legendary Backpack, we might have something that actually is worth looking at.
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