Guild Wars 2

I think 10 might be just a touch too high, but 5v5 I agree turns into a lot of 1v1s all over the place with maybe 1 or 2 instances where the fights go 3v3+.

I feel like 8v8 might be a more suited number, there should be some form of punishment in terms of time running back without opposition.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Are you kidding? When i played on my guardian it’s hammer felt like some small music stick for gently knocking on tiny catbells.

It’s with warrior that when i wield a hammer i FEEL the hammer POWER! Both burst and that crippling shockwave just 100% deliver on the feeling of raw, savage power of the warrior!

Also if you don’t want to feel a ranged support (shoutbow)…then don’t play that build! I don’t and my warrior sure doesn’t feel like 2nd rate medic in pvp.

But Guardians have Banish, best sounding hammer move imo.

Scoobaniec.9561:

My suggestions;

1. Move physical training to adept tier – thats the most important thing to open a lot of build diversity based around them.

2. Stomp – Reduce cd to 35sec. Stomp no longer work as selfroot skill instead it will leap to selected area (600range) just like Seismic Leap. Allow it to work with mobile strikes trait.

3. Kick – Knockdown the target for 2 seconds. Increase cd to 25sec and increase casttime to 3/4sec

4. Throw Bolas – Fix terrain patching (not sure if i have used a proper word here), its really terrible. Increase projectile speed by 33%, increase damage by 50% and decrease immobilize by 1sec

5. Bullrush is fine, the olny thing it needs is a fix to not overshoot targets.

6. Consider turning mending into a physical skill with additional effect to damage foes around you (radius 180, limit target 3) damage..i guess the same as stomp/bullrush

Thoughts?

Physical Training absolutely needs to be adept.

I think Stomp should move with your character’s movement while it channels, sort of how Hammer 5 animates with you moving. The 600 range is a bit too good considering its AoE, but I really like its reduced CD and the mobile strikes idea.

Kick would probably be worse off than what you suggested, just because with Physical Training in Adept Kick actually becomes usable for running Distracting Strikes too, as an additional interrupt. In fact I think it could even be a FASTER animation, 1/4 second.

Fix Throw Bolas Terrain issues, it makes me angry how many times it should have hit a target that isn’t even dodging.

Mending doing damage I believe isn’t the way to go, I do like your idea to make its a Physical Healing Skill. Instead perhaps give it regen and adrenaline gain for a few seconds, how’s that?

Kasteros.9847:

Sykper.6583:

…Actual GvG fights aren’t affected, they were taking place in OS officially.

Unofficial fights and zerg-busting are affected to a degree, but I am going to go on a limb here and say said guilds leaving the game are probably going to come back with HoT. There is just so much going on it would be wrong not to.

What I actually think the stability change is for, aside from putting a pretty big dent in the train-meta, is to help balance what HoT will throw at us. Pretty sure it has been talked about just how blob-unfriendly the new Borderlands (at least Desert) will be between all the chokes and vertical movement.

It will be too tough to call, calm down for now. Also really, really wish I can get into the next wave of HoT testing.

Do u really think ppl wouldn’t blob? xD With actuall stabil u blob u win simple. Also yes, the change is to balance game for HoT – tbh it is to make revenant more op for first days to make ppl buy expansion. It is also made to nerf guild znd zergs fights against blobs. It is all that is behinde this change – it is also the most logical way to think about it. Or maybe someone else know other reason to change something that worked and wasn’t changed( after huge QQ from blobers at forums) for last 3 years( including beta)?

Oh of course people will blob, I probably should have rephrased. I never meant to say that the new BL would utterly remove blobs, superior numbers is and will always be an advantage in WvW.

What I hope for is that the borderlands map will deter blobbing as between the verticality and chokes we will start seeing blobs being punished harder for well, blobbing.

The revenant did not need to have stability changed for people to play it, it is an entirely new profession, people will still cry nerf about every little unknown thing about the profession without putting too much thought into why it was made that way. And it is super likely that at least some of those points they make are valid as no MMO has ever released a new class without some balancing issues.

I doubt it was to nerf guild v zerg, however I do have my own theories on that issue that are probably well-beyond this thread.

…Actual GvG fights aren’t affected, they were taking place in OS officially.

Unofficial fights and zerg-busting are affected to a degree, but I am going to go on a limb here and say said guilds leaving the game are probably going to come back with HoT. There is just so much going on it would be wrong not to.

What I actually think the stability change is for, aside from putting a pretty big dent in the train-meta, is to help balance what HoT will throw at us. Pretty sure it has been talked about just how blob-unfriendly the new Borderlands (at least Desert) will be between all the chokes and vertical movement.

It will be too tough to call, calm down for now. Also really, really wish I can get into the next wave of HoT testing.

Raw strength with a lesser need for magic.

When I flatten someone with a hammer, its due to me being so boss.

Zirken.5184:

Wow I just couldn’t ignore this learn to play really ..

saying you got to take longbow becouse it does this and that…

this is a team based game, i do my build, use my weapons according to the team…. lucky the game allow you to constantly change builds freely…. why would you do 1 thing…

if you’re trying to find “the best” you’re in the wrong game.

i’ll give you example
in some situation my team need CC, i’ll go hammer, sword for the CC… longbow not needed here.
in some situation I go mace/shield longsword, and fill the role of the roamer / thiefs
and hell my guild says i’m doing a better job then thiefs.
in some situation i go axe longbow and keep the close point..

there so many ways to play you can’t just do one… if you do… no offense and with all the respect you sux.

warriors are fun, and this is enough you can find ways to play, if you don’t spend that time on forum instead.

There’s about a mile-high difference between you and what Burr was saying way above you.

The point wasn’t that a Warrior couldn’t just go build himself according to what the team needs, it is that what the Warrior attempts to do while not using a Longbow for that intended role, is absurdly without any stretch of imagination or thought less useful than another profession.

In terms of TPvP, the Warrior who brings CC will bring a hammer, and there is an option to run perhaps Mace/Sh rather than the LB, although unlike a thief or mesmer a Warrior can’t just Strip Boons so he can actually deal with Stability properly. Running a sword just to keep up the cripple does not a CC-machine make.

The roaming Warrior, with your example of assumed great warrior play, isn’t actually bad. It is around Mid-tier, but I will say this because thieves should absolutely wreck this role so much harder than, pretty much the other professions. I can’t even begin to imagine what your guild ran into in the thieves department, but there are bad players across all professions.

And…your Axe LB is kind of a moot point, you didn’t read the OP here. I won’t spoil it for you.

That being said, I think it might be more helpful for those not understanding to have a numerical representation.

Warrior running LB in his builds: 10/10, he’s got a lot of viable builds.
Warrior NOT running LB in his builds: 4.5/10, he doesn’t have a lot of options, the only viable builds are Mid-Tier at best but a serious TPvP comp will run the proper professions to play those roles. If they can’t get a proper profession, the Warrior is one option of a few, meaning that Mace-Sh/GS Warrior still might not get picked as the DD Ele is chosen instead.

We aren’t even average in PvP without a Longbow in terms of our viability, THAT is the issue, it isn’t even a debate at this point.

BlackTruth.6813:

By stating “I submit” you may as well have said you’re not good enough in all honesty.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that considering not many people can handle completely melee specs on Warrior.

Better luck next time I guess. Some people are fated to stagnate and some people are fated to evolve, pretty much all there is to it.

This guy’s posts are either a massive troll, or he is actively trying to kill off Warriors from all viability from simply ‘accepting’ how things are now and attempting to shove his horrid builds and plays into our faces.

I laugh either way, but I rather not have new warriors be tainted trying to run bad builds in any live PvP setting. Well, at least as far as I can tell he hasn’t made all the troll builds yet.

Kraljevo.2801:

Sykper.6583:

I run an AxeSh / Hammer roaming and dueling build. It has a balance of CC and Eviscerate burst, with shield being used primarily to help mitigate damage with those kiters. If I get close…well they better have stability or ill kill them outright.

Decent players will kite the kitten out of you, no offense mate. It’s not the best choice in wvw. But its definitely fun.

I really only have issues with a couple roaming builds from thieves and mesmers in the open field, I do run bull’s rush just for the gap-close if nothing else. Also most of the time I intentionally keep my hammer out so that 1-2 guys thinks I am just another hammer warrior coming back to the k-train and they engage on me….

Depending on who it is, Berserker Stance might make all their efforts to shut me down useless as I rush to down one of them, and then go for the other one. It’s totally a ‘for fun’ build, but I know the roaming warrior viably can’t roam alone.

I run an AxeSh / Hammer roaming and dueling build. It has a balance of CC and Eviscerate burst, with shield being used primarily to help mitigate damage with those kiters. If I get close…well they better have stability or ill kill them outright.

“WvW is getting stale.”
“Freaking Map Blobs everywhere! Where are the real fights?”
“We want change!”

Well, you all got your wish, and frankly, the previewed Desert Borderland is, when you think about it the only solution for what is wrong with WvW right now.

…Yes, I said the vertically-advantaged, objective-prioritized, NPC-dynamiced new borderland is the solution to what many have been crying out for. Or at the very least addresses many of the problems we have had once we reached the point where the current maps got real dull.

I am just going to assume many of you have started questioning my sanity, and I will answer that yes, I am an insane, suicidal warrior who loves to smash through enemy zounds alone. But that does not diminish why the new borderlands help us overall.

Let’s go through the problems one at a time, and see what JUST the Desert Borderlands does.

Stale World Versus World: This one is probably the most common complaint, and it has a myriad of rationale behind it, from ‘Fighting the same opponents is boring’ to using the ‘Same tactics and sieging the same objectives’. I am fairly certain we have all gone through our 200th capture of Stonemist Castle to know there are approximately 457,124 bricks on the outer wall…give or take a few hundred.

Sadly, even after Heart of Thorns we will still be counting Stonemist bricks, wishing we can get into the new utterly different borderland queues. We are getting a new map people, A NEW MAP. Regardless of what your opinion is, regardless of how much you hate heights, the new Borderlands unlike Edge of the Mists will matter on the scoreboard, and we will be returning back to the old days of figuring out tactics and siege placements or where to drop in from to crash the party with your guild of 15-20!

I am going to call this now, a lot of people here will actually love the new map, and feel invigorated by a fresh new battlefield to fight on. If nothing else, that stale feeling will be taken away for a time.

The ocean of foes: So this is an interesting perspective I am having issues trying to comprehend why people get upset about. Yes, numbers are an undeniable power in WvW. So we build siege to try to counter, but then we run the issue of whether siege is needed when fighting an equal force, thus setting in motion probably the most debated issue in GW2. Fortunately, I am only concerned with how the map helps with the ‘issue’ with map blobs.

Turns out, having bigger numbers will always give you an advantage, but having bigger numbers going into a choke….

I don’t think we need commanders to figure this one out, but choke-based objectives and vertical mechanics actually HURT the bigger numbers, there is a larger risk of getting taken out by well-placed arrow-carts or gravity (How many people do you lose jumping down from just Hills? Multiply that by Dry Top). I predict that, at least with the Desert Borderlands, players will realize the best course for their forces is smaller but still significant numbers across the map. Running 80 into some chokes might be a death-wish…

Now, with all the other things like NPC changes or smaller objectives, I do not think their impact is worth mentioning here as I believe they need to be played first by us to get a better grasp. I mean, I don’t think I am going on too much of a whim here saying that the NPC changes shouldn’t really affect WvWers too much, remember when the mobs in EotM were announced? I am going to expect the same from these mobs, as I believe the real positive effect that we all should be happy for is an actual change in the WvW battlefield.

So if you will excuse me, going to clean my hammer off, whiskers, asura ear, some human hair, it ruins the shine.

(Cont.)

Half. Warriors are half a profession, we have half viable traits, we have half utilities (Do you want me to name the bad ones? I can and will if you ask), the only thing we got right as of RIGHT NOW, might be our Weapons! Thank god there is something that sees action across the board. Rifle might be the least used of them all, but it seems like A-Net is starting to see it and actually put forth changes.

And when you have half of what you should have, you become predictable, and we do have a lot of easy telegraphs don’t we? Easy enough to get reflected back at us.

The only, specific reason Warriors are still seen in High-Level PvP, is that they still bring a weight to the table (Battle Standard and Immunities on Conquest Points). But make no mistake, Warriors are beat in every specific catagory in SPvP, but at least we do everything fairly well, right?

Lastly, don’t diminish the skill levels of everyone on these forums, many of them have put more time into their Warriors than you can even conceive. You aren’t the first one to try ‘moving to different builds’, we’ve been there first.

BlackTruth.6813:

<snip>

Warning. Large Wall Incoming.

I probably should have elaborated, but things like changing Berserker Stance, or having Cleansing Ire are mere partial fixes to the bigger problems with the Warrior. “Delaying” a point as a glass cannon is not what anyone would call a perk when you have to sacrifice all other capabilities to do so, and there has been enough debate by all other professions on the practical nature of popping stances to see why it really is not as powerful as you would think.

I instead present the argument that our trait-lines themselves are an issue. Every profession has these issues naturally, but Warriors, given our ease of entry and lack of depth, the traits having issues is further detrimental. Hell, watch this:

Defense Tree is broken in a bad way.

- Shield Master might be the only well-placed adept trait in the tree, off-handed reduced cooldowns and increased toughness, very fair.
- Dogged March (Originally) was too strong, taken literally over anything else all the time. The reason being that Warriors are supposed to be mobile fighters, I would say half or more of their skills involve them leaping, sliding, rushing, etc at enemies, and cripple, immobilize and chill are the worst. It was a no-brainer, but the regeneration was a bit too strong so they needed to nerf it a bit to keep it at this tier. Too bad it is still taken over anything else, as some of the other traits ought to really be minor traits.
- Sure-Footed to be honest with you, should have been somewhere else. I would even make it a minor trait as stances are such a fundamental part of a warrior build, and making it say…a master minor in Arms or perhaps Strength, might help see Warriors build in those lines for more diversity and that advantage.
- Vigorous Return zzzzz
- Missile Deflection you know what? THAT should have been the effect instead of toughness for the Shield Master trait. Just a thought, given how weak Warriors can be when kited. As for the trait itself, again Dogged March just makes it difficult to choose it.
- Cull the Weak why isn’t this the Grandmaster Minor Trait of the Defense line, so you actually start to see more Warhorn, Hammers and Maces? Of course the % damage would have to be bumped if you were putting 5 points into the tree.
- Sundering Mace is fine. The mace itself has a very niche role that is getting better (I must admit).
- Last Stand is actually the only thing counter-balancing Cleansing Ire in this tier. Stability or Condition clear, though I believe people are starting to realize CI is probably better and just run Stability on the bar instead.
- Cleansing Ire, was one of the few changes in the right direction, yet everyone and their mothers complained about it. They quickly forgot how easy bags we were when Rifle/Greatsword was our only way to be viable, but once we started sticking around for more than 10 seconds in a fight they couldn’t handle it. I will stand by this trait…though in a previous post long ago I talked about how it might be possible to shift this up a level to Grandmaster, but that’s for another time.
- Merciless Hammer, probably would be nicer if ‘Disabled’ also meant ‘Crippled’ too.
- Defy Pain is one of the few traits that a good warrior will know how to use well, and a bad warrior will mess up on.
- Spiked Armor, no comment until we know if Warriors will get a taunt (Super likely). I actually like running this trait occasionally, you do notice the damage it does to things but there are a lot of smart players out there.
- Rousing Resilience actually has a secret effect with Balanced Stance…cough. Still, the problem is that even if you don’t choose Defy Pain or Spiked Armor, you will still go down a tier for any other Master trait over this one.

I would hit up the Defense Tree minors, but I feel like they are justified in their positions. The problem is that not just Defense, but every tree has only 3-5 traits you will choose always for it over the others.

PvE: Currently lower-mid tier DPS, but Banner will always keep us wanted. You can interpret that however you please, personally the very last waves of nerfs were in my opinion, unnecessary. Still, we are fun to play.

WvW: Kind of a moot point, every profession actually has a decent enough role (except maybe thieves, given the whole state of ‘zergs win the mode’ in which thieves might be the least useful of the professions in a zerg, roaming they are kings) so nothing to say here.

PvP: This is where things get a bit complicated, so I will reestablish a point I made many a times back when Warriors were strong or weak. Warriors are pigeon-holed into half their weapons and utilities to run across all viable specs in PvP. The issue is that these viable specs, due to their focus on such few traits or utilities, often change in power level far more radically when even one thing gets changed.

If you want, I could name every single useless skill a warrior has, that if given a tune-up might change the way you see current warriors work. But I don’t think that is necessary, any warrior who has actually put time in the profession already knows which skills I am referring to, which weapons suck in all forms, which traits really shouldn’t be in these trees.

I have been sad that Warriors really haven’t changed since launch, they really haven’t.

At this point, while many of us would be thrilled to see something mechanically better about our banners like putting them on our backs to carry around, I am instead going to take a separate approach, given what we have now.

We as warriors often find ourselves using banners for the sole purpose of setting them down, and picking them up to temporarily move them in a better location as maybe 1-2 skills are used universally (2 and 3 on the weapon set). Whoopie.

No, screw that. We deserve better, we deserve variation, as we Warriors as a whole are seemingly brought along in PvE as Banner/Slightly below Average DPS, WvW as Shouting Frontliners with the Warbanner (The only respectable banner) and SPvP with the longbow of lighting up points.

I present a separate focus on what banners SHOULD be capable of. Here goes:

• Flip Inspiring Battle Standard Trait and Inspiring Banners effects, the Grandmaster trait also makes Banners Permanent on the ground with a slightly higher range increase.*
• ‘Plant Standard’ applys Stability (With changes to stability coming, 1-2 stacks depending on how strong/weak it is, subject to change, the stability has to be meaningful for the animation)*
• ‘Stab’ applies a half-second knockback (enough distance to stop chaining it with like, 3 warriors with banners, it gets silly), given the exceedingly large animation after the stab. Pending on how powerful, between 3-5 enemies can be hit (would require testing).*
• ‘Sprint’ goes a bit further, faster. Try 800 Range.*
• ‘Powerful Banners’ apply 3 stacks might and fury for 8 seconds, for allies with the target area of the landing. Banners also do damage when ‘Planted’ and cripple enemies for a second.*

Banner warriors as a whole are lacking in many areas. Even in their best areas (SPvP, PvE) the banner is hardly even thought about, its a given within the environment. My proposed changes are made to promote an actual active role when a warrior picks up a banner.

For support, a true banner warrior will never have any downtime as his banners are permanent, currently there is a very brief window where the reduced cooldown matches the animation for the next spawn. Remove it completely. If they end up picking up the banner, they have some options to keep their allies on their toes while pushing their enemies down.

For damage, powerful banners as a minor trait in Strength could compete with its other competitors in that line. Let’s be honest though, Warrior Traits in Minor aside from Dual-Wielding lack in use. Horrah ‘Great Fortitude’….

In all other uses (I suppose ‘tanking’ since taunt will be a thing soon) Banners aren’t quite there due to signets and shouts. When you consider the roles utilities play, banners are the closest thing to a long-term buff aside from the passive signets everyone else has.

The issue is that the short term, Shouts, far outclass the banners. Banner of Discipline and Battle Standard are the only banners that seem to compete, just due to either the overall damage increase or utility in combat. But that is all that is going for banners right now, as a whole banners have far less use for the Warriors utility bar (Physical Skills are worse, but that’s a whole other beast I would rather not tackle yet).

However, I do realize that simply asking for buffs is rather selfish. My suggestions come from two reasons:

- Banners are binary and lacking.
- Warriors have little build diversity.

I present these options to fix both the issues, we cannot accept how pitiful Banners are, give us some depth! Give us a decision between simply dropping the banner for faster weapon use or planting it for support use!

Demand more!

Thank you.

Lots of feedback here, which seems to be a general consensus that there is something still lacking when you give a Warrior a Rifle.

Before going back to the Rifle, I want to address my thoughts on the Longbow. Specifically, I don’t expect warriors to use the Longbow in the precise and dexterous manner rangers do. You can definitely see the longbow being used for more wide-spread, AoE functionality to the point where it almost seems like a ‘shotgun’ for the Warrior, get in close and personal to light things up.

The Rifle if we were to go by this idea, would try to emulate what a ranger does. Maybe not quite the range, but there is certainly either a lack of power, or a lack of effect when a Warrior turns his sights on someone, with the exception of Killshot which I feel is just right in its current state.

Personally, as I said before Warrior needs either the rifle to do damage, maybe even in the areas of its auto and its volley only. Or, it needs to be able to have slightly better synergy with the profession as a whole, or act as its own independent VIABLE build.

I been doing some various tests with the Rifle for a time now, and I really, really would think it might be wise if they swapped out Leg Specialist with something in either Strength or Arms. That one trait gives Rifle 2 and the Rifle as a whole an amazing utility that makes sense for landing Killshot, yet it somehow lands in the tree you really wouldn’t want to go into for running a rifle build. That alone would be a good first step.

One idea would be Powerful Banners and Leg Specialist Swap, Tactics will get a 3rd trait for banner build, and Rifle gets a much needed trait in Strength tree.

Pretty much the title.

I don’t think anyone has really asked yet, but since it was mentioned somewhere that all the current professions were getting one to start out with, I was wondering if the Revenant will get one as well, just to keep things even.

By no means would it make things uneven if the new profession did not, considering it is just being released and thus would already throw a curveball in the grand scheme of balancing. I am merely curious…

Sup everyone.

I’ll get straight to the point. The rifle getting its Kill-Shot buffed was a godsend, and Brutal Shot buff was the icing on the cake.

But despite the many nerfs to longbow, and the slow but sure buffs to rifle, the long range weapons of Warrior are not quite where I personally envision them to be. Mainly, Longbow has an overwhelming utility advantage through conditions that the rifle cannot surpass. In a damage aspect, the rifle still falls short despite the fairly decent uptime on vulnerability which other professions readily provide.

The question is, what needs to happen to make Rifle Warrior a thing?

Normally, I would go through a narrative on my position, but as I said before, I’ll get to the points:

- Across the board, on all rifle skills raw damage needs to go up, the power of the skills needs to be higher than the damage of the conditions of the longbow. This means 1, 3, and Burst needs a strong flat damage buff, scaling is fine. The reasoning behind this is that while Rifle provides raw damage, the utility and conditions behind Longbow make it a more sustained weapon. You go Longbow when you want to wear out your foe to death, Rifle is for the quick burst kill with more damage outright.

- The Rifle does not have much synergy with the warrior skills. ….That’s not fair, what I should say is that the warrior skills that mesh with the Rifle, suck. It is apparent that the Physical Skills have a role in how a Rifle Warrior would work, but on both a cooldown or utility basis, the physical skills are outmatched by other utilities, which are better with other weapons! The Longbow remains viable just because it has far more use in far more situations. If the Physical Skills were actually buffed in-line with what we saw Berserker Stance receive, we would see rifle make an actual awakening!

Even if the Rifle had the same amount of damage as the Longbow, it would still be inferior due to the conditions the longbow inflicts, utility does matter in both PvP and actually in PvE in some situations. Rifle needs help, maybe not in both of these sides but in ONE of these.

Thank you.

Scoobaniec.9561:

xDudisx.5914:

Warrior is in a good spot.

For spvp shoutbow and hambow are still good
For wvw sw+wh/hammer is still good.
For dungeons the banners are usefull.

In short;

For spvp shout bot
For pve banner bot

And btw shoutbow is by far the worse build i have seen. I dont even know how it can be meta. Such a junk build, ofc good for cleaning condi but thats about it. For that task ill pick up ele instead tho.

Were down to bot role. Indeed a good spot

Banner bot I can agree with.

I wouldn’t put SPvP in the same vein though.

Still, the fact is that overall we are weaker as a playstyle and in power than before.

The only upside is the drastic lack of complaining about us on the forums these days. It’s interesting when we aren’t even considered a threat that people suddenly are ‘OK’ about us, huh?

There was a very brief timeframe where Eles were top, and I mean like, was it a month? It was hardly noticable. I know that when eles were nerfed and brought out of the meta, you would still see a few running around in hotjoins.

I believe the term used by eles complaining back then was that they felt their profession was ‘lackluster for the work they had to put in’.

It’s funny when I think about it, I remember reading one thread saying that they felt as useless as warriors…Oh the good ol’ days.

So I believe I have caught up on the full context of the whole discussion, I only have one thing to say.

The entirety of all of this has as a whole, been a huge buildup to something we all have known, or should have known since page 1.

The grind is subjective to the individual. That’s all, to nitpick at certain things is fairly pointless as what one person says is a grind, another says it is fair progression. Heck I think I read somewhere that someone thought progression is a grind in of itself, and they wouldn’t technically be wrong.

Personally speaking, I don’t see a grind when I am having fun, that’s it, nothing else can shake me from my position. From my own experiences, I have not seen anything that has impacted me as a ‘negative grind’ in the game. I have played several other MMOs, GW2 is still by far probably the least ‘grindy’ of them all. Any of the things that might constitute grinds in this game, I have noticed that Arenanet has started to steer away from, or allocated other ways to achieve the same reward.

That’s my piece.

Oh joy! I always wondered if I could be Rygar!

It’s perfect!

Scoobaniec.9561:

Marthkus.4615:

hybrid.5027:

2. Better AI is still AI. Every system can and will be mastered. New AI would catch good players off guard for a small period of time, but then through repetition we would solve it and defeat it with the same ease we do now

In the world of AI, we would call that bad AI.

Name me any game with “good al”. Im waiting master.

Alien Isolation!

…Sorta, they did a good job on the alien, but the robots could have used some more love.

Going back on track, one of the justifications for why Warriors in general were brought low, and one that I can sort of agree with, is how easy we are to pick up.

I don’t think it is too hard to assume Warriors are probably the most ‘staple’ of the professions in the game. You could argue Elementalist in terms of mages, or Thief in terms of Rogues, but how a warrior plays and how the warrior trope is, we pretty much nailed it. We still are pretty kitten simple.

And rather than give us some depth in a positive direction, the balancing approach apparently went to making our class mechanic, Burst, even more difficult to keep up or use ideally. Would have been cool if we got some nice changes to our other utilities in compensation, like the Physical Skills having an additional effect to make them all practical and not just Bull’s. But instead, easy route, take us down quite a few notches.

…But hey, maybe this is all building up to specializations which everyone else will be getting too. Maybe our specializations will add something to the mix no one really saw coming, hence the ‘aimed shot’ against us in general.

I take a couple months off, come back, and still find out nothing has really changed in how Warriors are still being perceived. Cool.

To answer the OP’s question. No, warriors are not ‘sucking’. We, like other professions, have quite a few tricks up our sleeves for our use only, making us still wanted in groups.

Sadly, DPS is not one of them anymore. In fact, due to various mechanic nerfs (especially you OOC adrenaline depletion) as a whole Warriors lost a lot of power. But I suppose it’s fine because banners right?

….In the current state of the PvE game (I don’t think we need to really establish how Warriors are in PvP or WvW, things are complicated there), sadly DPS does in fact rank extremely high in usability over class utility itself. You don’t see three guardians in speed-clearing groups for instance, despite being able to have some sort of permablock rotation going because it would be slower than picking up two thieves and a guardian.

In much the same manner, after continuing to be hit hard again and again and being put in the bottom half of DPS classes for PvE, it would not be surprising to start seeing warriors not be in real solid dungeon comps for the ideal, much in line with how necros are perceived. (Thinking on it, were we ever in hardcore speed run comps? Wasn’t it two thieves, mes, ele and guardian the typical setup?)

But hey, at least we are now consistently ok. Just like the Necros, just like the engineers (wait I believe A-Net is really trying to help them out).

I cannot wait for the day where I join a group for a simple AC speedrun, and get kicked for being a warrior. It will be glorious.

dancingmonkey.4902:

You left out “mending” entirely…………….

Either way you missed my point. I was speaking in relation to healing signet, not in comparison too it. We all know HS is great. It is why every one is spoiled. This is why I specifically mentioned them in comparison to the other healing skills across the board on similar cool downs.

The problem is not that the other skills are poor, because they are not. (with the exception of mending cast time)………….The problem is that healing signet is too good in comparison.

(Skimmed over mending because you too seem to agree that it needs a slight change, either a cooldown change or a slightly higher healing tweak is A-OK with me.)

…You are going in circles. You don’t want to compare the numbers yet you want to say that Healing Signet has to be relatable to the other healing skills. You are drawing your whole argument about Healing Signet being too good based upon the relationship with Healing Surge and Mending. And so the best way to do that is to prove through numbers, which I showed you the hard math and truth.

So the real crux of your argument hinges on that you still believe Healing Signet is ‘too good’ of a heal, despite it being toned down quite a lot to the point where its last nerf was within an 10% decrease (It was actually 8%), meaning that at some point the balance team determined that the sustain from Healing Signet was just about tuned right for the profession. In which you seem to think they aren’t making it steep enough.

So let’s break it down some more, remember that awesome number of 22,620 per minute gained (377 a second)? If a Warrior were to run no Vitality gear whatsoever, it would come to about 18,372 health. (Source)

A full-glass warrior with the lowest health pool imaginable running Healing Signet would heal from 0% to full in 48-49 seconds. So 24-25 seconds would be around 9186 health. Sounds like a lot, until you start comparing it to other professions, and some of their sustained heals. But then we run into the problem of different professions play differently. Just because a skill like Troll Unguent heals for a fairly comparable amount of health total every 25 seconds doesn’t mean it is broken. (I actually don’t think it is, and like Healing Signet it is all a matter of saving that clutch poison to make the Ranger pay).

But why did I bring it up? Because as I said, different professions play and act differently. Warriors have a high health pool, yet why do elementalists have the capability of sustaining their health better?

Because sustain needs to scale with the health pool to be good sustain. And that is why you are absolutely wrong about Healing Signet being too good.

Healing Signet is at a point where it is countered hard by burst, yet during long fights Healing Signet will keep the Warrior healthy! It is doing its job for the Warrior profession!

So now it is a matter of realizing that if Healing Signet is where a sustained heal for a Warrior needs to be, then where do Healing Surge and Mending sit at? For a burst heal, Surge pales in comparison to the health gained versus average health pool scenario that other professions have. With the vast majority of Warriors running 20k+ health in competitive PvP, having a 45-48% heal (if the conditions are perfect) on a 30 second cooldown, is abysmal. Surge needs a pretty substantial buff to be considered a burst heal for warriors.

Mending should be an option for Warriors who want to deny condi-creep, and can sustain with regeneration (likely going into banner regen or shouts). Like you said, a cooldown reduction would be nice.

dancingmonkey.4902:

My numbers disagree with you. Would you mind breaking it down for me?

Sure thing boss!

Let’s start with Healing Signet, might as well start somewhere right?

Since every Warrior wanting to play competitively in PvP typically runs Defense Tree, unless you are trolling along ‘Sniping’ people in WvW, we will start with the baseline Healing Power of 300 on just traits alone. …Yes there are banner Warriors running healing power bunker banner builds, we don’t talk about those guys they are special.

Anyways back to Healing Signet, with 300 healing power that 362 heal jumps to a whopping 377 healing per second.

Over a 60 second fight (going with a minute fight for a reason), that amounts to 22,620 unfettered health gained a minute. Neat, Healing Signet on its own does a few thousand more than a full heal to a Warrior running all glass. I suppose we COULD go into specifics about if the Warrior pops the Healing Signet, but let’s be real here, that’s not something any Warriors do. You would only get about 3425 health over the 1.25 seconds you use to channel the signet, which begs the question why couldn’t you wait for the passive to tick for 9 seconds? It’s a really tough decision sometimes and it is hard for any warriors to judge whether they will get bursted during that time, or if they will get interrupted which causes a break in the healing signet…

…I got side-tracked, right.

22,620 unfettered health gained a minute with 300 healing power.

Let’s take a lovely look at Healing Surge now, cause you seem pretty adamant that it will outweigh Healing Signet as a comparable heal. There is a lot to take in here, but let me lay down the numbers for each stage of burst for you:
Stage 0 (You ain’t got nuthin!): 6,155
Stage 1 (Pfft, you ain’t even mad enough): 6,840
Stage 2 (You looking a bit red there pal..): 8,555
Stage 3 (Oh ** he’s fuming mad!): 10,270

And…Healing Surge can be popped once every 30 seconds (A minute fight, popped twice! Aha!), so ideally in that minute I came up with arbitrarily, you want to pop it at the 29 second mark, and the 59 second mark. …Because it takes a second to channel, hopefully not interrupted.

In the condition that said Warrior has his Adrenaline maxed out (cause you don’t want to use a burst to rid yourself of those nasty condis with CI amirite?) and he isn’t poisoned or gets interrupted during any of those Surges (because stopping healing isn’t a thing), The warrior over the course of those 60 seconds gains….

20540 unfettered healing per minute!!

….Something seems off there, let’s see…no that can’t be right.

Why does the only Burst Heal a warrior has do less healing per second under ideal settings, that should serve as the basis for any offensive orientated builds than a sustain heal?

In fact it is WORSE than some of the burst healing other professions have because it has the added condition of requiring MAXIMUM adrenaline to perform optimally, because there is no reason for Warriors to use Earthshaker, Eviscerate, Skull Crack, Combustive Shot, Flurry…hell, I will even put in Killshot at MAXIMUM adrenaline right?

It’s funny really, Healing Surge should be doing above and beyond when the Warrior has to play a bit more passive to gain the full effect of sustaining its large health pool. Yet because it is so inefficient to run Surge that Healing Signet has taken its place, and with the change to Adrenaline so it burns out of combat like no tomorrow, Healing Surge got even worse off than before!

So my question to you sir, madam…person who thinks Warriors are ‘spoiled’.

What the hell are your numbers?

coglin.1867:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

BurrTheKing.8571:

AnonMD.7263:

words

more words

some other words

Worse. Even though with the trait is could almost be a full cleanse, it doesn’t heal enough for that CD for it to be useable.

Actually both heals are quite good. The problem is we are completely spoiled on the signet. And to be honest, there is not reason not to use it.

By design and numbers, Healing Surge is a horrid, counter-intuitive heal that might seem appealing when measured against other lower health professions. It does nothing to keep the Warrior alive though.

Mending simply needs a bump of about 5-10% before I start considering it, as that condition clear will likely be even more needed with how Adrenaline and Cleansing Ire function after the patch.

It is not that Warriors are spoiled on Healing Signet, we just do not have a good alternative that fills the other healing roles we can run. Anyone running Healing Surge is shooting themselves in the foot, and those dedicated enough to run Mending might be going hellish out of their way into Healing Power / Regeneration that they might see conditions as the biggest threat.

Esplen.3940:

Not all heal skills are used for hp/s. If they were, people wouldn’t run Healing Signet.

Ah, but Warriors must!

Feel free to pull up the gw2 wiki, but without going into any good healing power, Signet is still superior by a couple thousand health over the course of a minute, or even 30 seconds for that matter.

Healing Surge might be a burst heal, but it is outpaced because it is designed poorly for the Warrior (Less healing gained with low Adrenaline, so we don’t need to use burst skills right?). And even if the Warrior popped a 3rd bar heal every best time possible, it would still heal for less in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention it can be interrupted…

Mending is worse because we have already gained a wonderful amount of condition cleanse since Launch, and it has not even remotely CHANGED since then either. The healing is pitiful as well.

Defiant Stance at least has the redeeming factor of being situational, there is no situation that Mending and Healing Surge will outweigh Healing Signet.

Which is all the more reason to look into those skills as well…

…My apologies, I got side-tracked. Stances right? Provided I did not misread you on how you don’t think we need to have a ‘1 stance at a time’ clause, I agree with your points.

NinjaEd.3946:

Sykper.6583:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Warriors will still be much more popular then guardians for reasons

1: They have higher burst potential

2: They can bunker just as well if not better in some situations, they also do so without loosing nearly as much damage potential due to having double the starting health pool
(guardians may have protection but given the god awefull cool downs for abilities that apply it & how slow the hammer auto chain is it just is to easy to counter.)

3: they have more build options that are viable at higher levels of play

4: Warriors have a great deal more crowd control, snares, cripples, stuns, dazes etc…

So in the end all the guardian really excels at is condition removal & being tanky as long as the long CD abilities last (assuming they are not immediately converted to conditions or stripped or stolen.)

Ehhh, I agree on everything but your second point. Warriors cannot really…‘bunker’ to the extent that Guardians can, I can think of only one or two builds a Warrior can run to ‘play at bunker’, but those are really only solid on points. As you said, Guardians are without peer the best at condition removal and being tanky innately across all their builds.

But, that is not to dismiss the other three points, Warriors will still reign supreme in popularity.

Have you played with rousing resilience with a regen warrior?

I can’t link the build atm but it has endless condi removal with something like 4.5k armor 20+k health and a lot of blocks/evades. Their group regen is incredibly strong.

I will be trying to mess around with Rousing after the balance patch when it gets buffed, but I am going to state that I believe Defy Pain is a better option since Endure pain negates raw damage while higher toughness simply lowers it. Rousing might be better once it doubles after the patch.

Endless condi-removal, absurdly high toughness, blocks and evades (20k+ health is innate in almost every warrior build) and group regen? You are likely talking about a banner warrior (the only source of the Regen Boon) alongside ‘Shake It Off’ Skill and ‘Cleansing Ire’ trait. That particular build, of which I can very like guess, involves catering 12 points into Defense and Tactics to achieve. For those less-informed, those are trees without offense capabilities.

In other words, it is about as tanky and supportive as you can get without having any meritable offensive power aside from your weapon set (One has to be Longbow).

This links back to Black Box, Lucent, and Ranger’s post. Where you described the Guardian needing to compromise with traits to achieve that bunker I said was innate in every guardian. Warriors also need to do the same exact thing…but my issue is just how many boons Guardians have access to, and by design I understand WHY they do which is why I am not complaining about Guardians too much here. Whereas Warriors are supposed to be more offensive bruisers. In fact, that might make more sense to describe the two professions side by side.

Don’t get me wrong, the Adrenaline nerf was entirely justified, it was something that should have been in since launch. But for the sheer fact that Guardian Virtues can apply their effects to themselves, and to allies, shows and demonstrates the guardians has a greater role at support and defense than anyone else.

If you compared every viable build a guardian has to warrior, with respect to role in a fight**, you will see the guardian fill the role equally or greater every time with concern to defensive capabilities.

Guardian was my second main, after Warrior of course. I like to play the melee front-line, it’s something I picked up from my previous involvement in MMOs. Going through the traits from 1-80, and looking through the weapon skills and virtues Guardians have, I have gotten the sense that most of it IS support, rather than defense. But that shouldn’t diminish how capabilities like Aegis on demand to block that eviscerate, or middle-tier blind power (If I do my corrections right, Guardians have the 2nd best access to blinds across all professions, or at least they are up there), that Guardians are the class to go to for bunkering.

Overall, I extremely oppose the idea that Warriors will be the king of bunker, but they are a strong candidate for pushing points. …Actually in that same vein, we might see an increase in Mediguard after seeing the Ready-up.

Thank you.

• Warriors do have more viable builds than any other profession, that is a given, I simply want to address that across all viable builds of all professions, guardian still dominates the bunker role innate. However I would love to see the treatment given to viable build access for warrior across the board, Condi-Guardian I would not mind being a thing.

Purple Miku.7032:

-.-

HELL no.

‘Well-spoken rant’

-breathes-

Miku, just wanted to let you know it might be fairly pointless to try. The Warrior stigma is so strong, there are likely going to be continued complaints about Warriors regardless of their real place for a long time.

People will be people.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Warriors will still be much more popular then guardians for reasons

1: They have higher burst potential

2: They can bunker just as well if not better in some situations, they also do so without loosing nearly as much damage potential due to having double the starting health pool
(guardians may have protection but given the god awefull cool downs for abilities that apply it & how slow the hammer auto chain is it just is to easy to counter.)

3: they have more build options that are viable at higher levels of play

4: Warriors have a great deal more crowd control, snares, cripples, stuns, dazes etc…

So in the end all the guardian really excels at is condition removal & being tanky as long as the long CD abilities last (assuming they are not immediately converted to conditions or stripped or stolen.)

Ehhh, I agree on everything but your second point. Warriors cannot really…‘bunker’ to the extent that Guardians can, I can think of only one or two builds a Warrior can run to ‘play at bunker’, but those are really only solid on points. As you said, Guardians are without peer the best at condition removal and being tanky innately across all their builds.

But, that is not to dismiss the other three points, Warriors will still reign supreme in popularity.

I can’t really say who won, but Thieves definitely lost without a doubt.

I uh…

Nah, go ahead. Play AA without a sub and uh…let me know how that works out.

Not that your points about WvW being stale aren’t valid though, but there isn’t really any good competition.

Going to agree with Burr, we shouldn’t underestimate BR as an alternative.

coglin.1867:

Because you jumped on the band wagon to get it nerfed long enough ago that it wasn’t recent times, it has been many many months. Fact is, you still jumped on those threads and demanded that any skill or trait that promoted passive play was “atrocious”, promoted a lack of skilled play, and other comments imying insults to anyone who used it…………..Here you defend it…………That is the purest definition of a hypocritical pattern to me. Maybe we use different dictionaries?

Sorry, I am still going through my posts looking for when I thought passive play was atrocious. Don’t get me wrong, I too think healing signet shouldn’t be the only thing warriors use, but unfortunately our other healing skills are so utterly lackluster even to the point where one is needs a rework in order to see the light of day again.

I find it a bit distasteful, and utterly irrelevant, to be calling out something I said more than just ‘months ago’ just to make a point that I don’t know what I am talking about.

Though, I am also willing to gander that you too don’t hold the nearly the same values you had a year ago, especially since balance patches seem to happen every half-year or so.

coglin.1867:

Sykper.6583:

Engineers and Necromancers specifically can and will get their conditions across even on the current incarnation of warriors.

And? It has already been proven in practice, in a multitude of posted videos, and old fashion math, that power engineer or necro puts out as much damage in soldiers gear as they do in dire. CI simply lets you mitigate more damage of a condition damage user then a direct damage user.

…I don’t see what point you were trying to make here, I said that engi/necros will get their conditions across, and you make a statement about CI’s intended purpose. Yes, it does help against condition builds, what of it? It does not negate them.

Sykper.6583:

The reapplication and ‘layering’ is far higher than CI can influence, and the adrenaline nerf will force warriors running LB to save their full adrenaline only for LB and never their other set. The Adrenaline nerf is big enough to have competant Warriors change their playstyles while the mindless ones get weeded out.

coglin.1867:

Heaven forbid though, that warriors actually have to think in battle and use there adrenaline wisely, similar to how they other professions have to use there professions in battle. (Strange, I never would have guessed that warrior tears were more pink then a mesmers)

I think you misunderstand, I actually like the adrenaline nerfs because I know I will be having an even easier time against lesser skilled warriors as well. I was simply emphasizing that we should not go overboard with even more nerfs or changes with Warrior since we are already going to see a pretty decent one with Adrenaline being changed. (It’s cute to think I was crying though, your involvement in this thread has been nothing but tears so I think your vision might be a bit blurred.)

Sykper.6583:

The signet is not a problem

coglin.1867:

Seems a bit hypocritical based on how many post you made complaining about engineers passive automated response trait.

….What? I haven’t had anything to say poorly about Engineers in any recent posts…or even in months. You might have confused me for someone else.

Edit: Oh kitten, editting options OP.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Sykper.6583:

. Do note that looking only from an SPvP standpoint is fairly shallow and probably not the best example when you consider there is only one type of PvP mode which relies on holding points

Speaking of misinformation, solo roamer or small groups battling over a ring for control of a supply camp or guard post in WvW, say hello.

Those fighting over a keep ring, SM, Hills, and Bay in WvW, also say hello.

Only the guard post/sentry ring is remotely comparable to the size of the SPvP ring. There is a reason why a single player running around the rim of a keep lord ring to contest it over a zerg trying to take it is a thing.

coglin.1867:

And they still have access to literally no other immunities afterwards than other professions once they pop their util stances, other than a grandmaster on a 90 second internal CD. As well other professions are locked out of their heal, utilities, elite, and ALL weapons skills yet either refresh their cooldowns, have more mobility than any viable LB warrior, and can easily re-engage after not even 10 seconds of immunity.

Fixed a large portion of misinformation there. Do note that looking only from an SPvP standpoint is fairly shallow and probably not the best example when you consider there is only one type of PvP mode which relies on holding points. The entire discourse about LB being too strong would never even occur if SPvP had more than one game type that did not focus on Conquest. Not to mention the map sizes…

coglin.1867:

How does an engineer deal with it? Oh, that is right, they don’t. Because they can never come close to a warriors condition removal thanks to cleansing ire.

Engineers and Necromancers specifically can and will get their conditions across even on the current incarnation of warriors. The reapplication and ‘layering’ is far higher than CI can influence, and the adrenaline nerf will force warriors running LB to save their full adrenaline only for LB and never their other set. The Adrenaline nerf is big enough to have competant Warriors change their playstyles while the mindless ones get weeded out.

coglin.1867:

Which is a good change. Yet still, none of this addresses the passive heal of the signet. As much as you complained about an engineers “automated response” you cannot defend the signet.

The signet is not a problem, as long as the whole profession is tuned down. In fact with the adrenaline nerf you will see a drop in Warrior sustain because they will no longer float around full Adrenaline bars when they miss with their off-weapon like Axe or Hammer to prompt a dodge (See Adrenal Health). You will see warriors having to adapt to be more conservative and less reckless or they will get destroyed.

Relshdan.6854:

Hamfast.8719:

If ANet selects, they’ll have to be prepared to weather a storm of criticism from the people who think they’re already out of touch with the community.

If you leave it up to a Forum “vote” here, then you will only be getting the opinion of the forum-goers. (Not to mention you will have to MANUALLY tally up the results, and many people will chime in multiple times. No control.)

As I suggested in the other thread:

During the Beta testing, we were given little in-game questionnaires to help you guys decide what people liked, and disliked, and what needed work. That seems like a good way to reach a nice, sizable spectrum of gamers. Do you think your little questionnaire program could be adapted to quiz the community on their desires?

You can control that each account gets to vote only ONE time. Offer a checklist of “hot topics” we’d like to see addressed. Your computers can quickly tally up what topics are the most important to the community as a whole, not just the forum-goers.

Easier. Faster. More representative.

love this suggestion.

I cannot like this suggestion more than now, hits both parties interests imo.

Welp, HHR on page 12 pretty much summed up concisely the varying issues right now facing GW2. I am just going to echo and elaborate on his points too:

Grinding, Economy and Reward are quite a bit gold-centric:

Going forward, I was actually happy to see better design on shifting away from gold in the latest map Dry Top, which indicates that you guys see a need to create map specific content and rewards as opposed to having everything earned in the game centered around gold. But there still is a large amount of rewards in this game being a gold-sink, and most of the time, ONLY earned through a sink in gold. The biggest offender I think everyone here acknowledges is Precursors, and we already have threads upon threads discussing it so I won’t need to say anything more than that.

However, the biggest problem I feel is not necessarily gold as it is the diminishing buying power it has gone through for the last year or so. It is getting HARDER to afford legendaries, and I and many other veterans have quite the headstart on making the daily gold income dedicated players might do each day. I can’t even fathom how hard and long it would take new players to make the legendaries.

There are multiple ways to handle the situation, and I think we might need to take many of the steps now. One is to simply keep pressing forward with design like Dry Top and move away from gold currency, and for content with gold currency tied into it, either raise the buying power of players or create supply to counter the inflating market.

Content and Priorities:

I can understand (or at least attempt to) the difficulty in…making the difficulty of PvE content. I think you guys are on the right track with how you have been handling the Living Story, where achievements might tie to greater rewards if you play with ‘challenge mote’.

But I was extremely sad to hear the discourse with dungeons and resource allocation. I was even more surprised to hear that you guys were struggling to keep up with the demand, that it was in fact still the small(ish) staff since launch working to keep our beloved GW2 aloft.

It’s like having a high-class luxury cruise ship, with just about all the luxuries across the scope you can ask for. But if you go down below, you see a bunch of wooden boards holding the base of the ship in place, likely wobbling. ….I literally can’t do analogies, but I think you guys understand. I am impressed and worried, I hope you don’t have one network engineer with a desk and bed doing everything and not going home. With GW2 continuing to pick up speed (China Release OP) it’s time to start really expanding.

…I got a bit side-tracked, anyways in case it is unlikely that you cannot fill positions at this moment in time, it might be better to reaffirm priorities. There are probably around a dozen or more different things I can do on my Warrior right now that are considered end-game content. I would have said ‘three’ but then it would not be enough to say ‘PvE, SPvP, WvW’ would it? There are sub-sets to each one, and each and every single one of those subsets needs to have the appropriate amount of time invested to really help the game out.

Interesting thought, what if you guys made a sort of contest on the forum for a Dungeon Design from mapping, encounters, difficulty and mechanics and see what some of us come up with? Heck, I think I recall a thread or so of people proposing ideas for new world bosses.

…Just to reaffirm, every single person posting in this thread must care a great deal about the future of GW2, I think it is something we can all agree upon.

Thank you.

Pretty much any given time a male norn uses a duration block skill, I see the same exact thing.

…I still get depressed about it to this day

Cygnus.6903:

Eiland.1405:

Sykper.6583:

…
Adrenaline nerf (at least when blowing your bursts) won’t impact the most skilled warriors too much, if at all.
…

Just to clarify I am not gonna wine about the nerf, and I even think these changes can be good, but be sure that they will effect everyone.

This. /thread

That’s a fair enough position.

The thing I wanted to drill in our heads with this thread is that we aren’t going to see a launch-level warrior due to the balance patch.

And I am optimistic Warriors as a whole will start improving their playstyles in the right direction for it.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Wake up and smell the roses please.. it is running 24/7.. once one map occasionally slips up cos its scaling fails as players logout.. the rest move to another map copy.. its a permanent issue hence the enormity of the exploit now pretty soon 000’s of players will have amassed everything they need.. tonight they were already bragging of their number of loot bags today, the amount of exotics etc they have farmed from it and all the mats they could think of.. there were even a few “better” shinnies being chat linked by the relentless ones that they have looted over the last few weeks.

As for leaving.. and go where .. to the next Orr map running the same exploit so players wanting to run the events legitimately cant because of the griefing or extensive scaling to spawn the maximum champs possible whilst ensuring those legitimate players don’t cause that “one mistake”.

But please do keep trying to justify the exploit some more.

I had wanted to type out a rather detailed explanation on why you and I agree somewhat…

But I think I will take a simple approach for why you too aren’t seeing the whole picture:

- GW2 had farm spots, farm spots gave an adequate amount of materials originally on par with doing other content. Most of it was pretty exploitive, especially pre-‘elite’ mobs.
- Just about all the farm spots got destroyed, the supply line diminishes as a whole, we don’t start seeing the effects immediately. Powerful Blood used to be 30s each not even a year ago. Now, it has doubled but that is what happens when you kill supply.
- Despite inflation happening across all such materials and even precursors due to farming being discouraged, the rate of gold income a typical player earns has not changed all that much.
- Inflation without equally raised wages…I think you can figure out what that means for us, and new players.
- Slippery Slope: Destroy this farm location, our economy in another year will be something like Elder Scrolls Online at launch, unbelievably broken for anyone wanting a legendary, ever.

There are three outcomes that can come out of this:

- Arenanet caves in to ‘your’ kind of demand, the event chain gets shafted as champions no longer spawn (Exotic Bags be dropping T6), another supply line is completely lost, and inflation rises faster.

- Arenanet lets the event continue as it was since launch, as they understand that the event is not necessarily exploitive since a group of 5 people could finish the event easily if they tried, with a zerg raging them from behind (I don’t condone the negativity, those trying to make the event succeed have every right to report harassers) and since this supply line was recently started picking up momentum, we get slightly slower inflation of T6 mats and Precursors. Still, we have this problem of players making money…

- Best Case Scenario: Arenanet removes the farm, but raises the drop rates of T6 across the board, everywhere. Although precursors will still rise, the prospect of Precursor crafting is out there, and the prices of T6 will drop back down to acceptable levels where new players wanting legendaries don’t have to go through more hoops than we veteran players did.

TL;DR: Folks, regardless of what you think of this scenario, the economy is in deep piles of trouble with inflation beating out the typical player gold income. It is getting harder to make legendaries than it was a year ago, this is bad. Asking for another recently discovered ‘supply line’ for valuable materials to be shattered is asking for another bullet in our leg, when we are already crippled.

I have been having a string of this happening to me in LA just now. The Crashes are dictated in the log file at the very end.

Elegie.3620:

Sykper.6583:

That’s right, calling you all out and myself because now we will actually feel the impact of mindlessly counting to 2 dodges before popping eviscerate. Guess we gotta start thinking about Black Powder / other blind cooldowns now, right? Aw man, that sucks, I wish we had a trump that also stopped incoming blinds for a time too…

The Berserker Stance, besides providing you with 5 bars of adrenaline, makes you immune against all conditions, blind included. I use it a lot against to put thieves down, and actually have some of them regularly ask “why you no blind”.

Counting dodges has never been enough, nor IMHO very useful. Some classes can instantly refill their endurance, teleport, block, use invulnerability, use auras, and so forth. Landing an evisceration is never 100% guaranteed, although, in my experience, the success rate of it significantly increase the more you prepare the burst with soft/hard control.

Agreed on that last point, I was merely trying to elaborate on the point that we as warriors will continue to improve on our preparation for landing our bursts further rather than just throwing them out off cool-down without a penalty.

Look, I know you have already gone and done your homework on the balance patch numbers for Warrior coming soon, and you may or may not be an individual whom thinks the world is ending for Warriors. Just thought I would share some insight with ya, for good times sake.

….We are not going to be useless. We are going to be viable still in every mode.

Yes, that’s right. We are still a top dog among professions in this game. But why?

Let’s go down the list, shall we?

PvE: If Arenanet took all our weapons and armor away, and gave us a dirty loincloth from an Ettin to wear-

…actually scratch that thought, did not need a mental image of an Ettin Loincloth.

If Arenanet took away everything but our banners, we would STILL be brought into dungeons. Strength and Discipline Flogging-Rods are the prime buffs you would want that are unique to our profession. We were already doing pretty decent damage considering how much utility we brought with banners and shouts and all sorts of goodies, having it take a small hit due to having to balance Warriors as a whole is a price I am willing to pay.

Seriously, we could all be Loincloth-Wearing Banner Bodies right now, be thankful.

PvP: “OH NO, MY ADRENALINE IS GONE BLIND OP EVERYONE HAS IT GOD ITS ALL OVER.”

Kind of an exaggeration, but nevertheless I feel the need to come out and say that the Adrenaline nerf (at least when blowing your bursts) won’t impact the most skilled warriors too much, if at all. That’s right, calling you all out and myself because now we will actually feel the impact of mindlessly counting to 2 dodges before popping eviscerate. Guess we gotta start thinking about Black Powder / other blind cooldowns now, right? Aw man, that sucks, I wish we had a trump that also stopped incoming blinds for a time too…

…Bout time we finally got a bit more skillful to play.

WvW: Last time I checked, we were still the most wanted thing in WvW aside from Guardians. Not only THAT, but those running the elusive rarely seen zerg/pub busting spec called SwordAxe / Greatsword have literally had their entire build boosted in the AoE cleave capability. Oh god the executes following the Whirling Axe! I feel like it was pointless to even bring up WvW, we couldn’t fall out of viability if we tried.

TL;DR: Stop complaining about the balance changes, we are still awesome. What you should do is realize that thieves just got nerfed worse than we did, so uh…feel sympathy or gloat, I dunno.

spoj.9672:

The maths in this thread was very entertaining.

I feel like everyone would profit a lot more if they literally took a pen to a piece of paper and wrote down the math. Seriously, guys….

I have not enough face-palms.

I am OK with the conversation shifting from the Balance changes to profession comparisons and talks on Warrior Mobility.

Mainly because once the changes go live, we will see the state of Warrior afterwards and determine whether or not the skill gap has been increased between good warriors and bad ones, and whether or not the mobility is justified since the profession as a whole got changed to be a little bit less ‘hand-holding’ than before.

….However, it is a bit too soon to start immediately calling for comparisons between Warrior and Necromancers, since the Necromancer Skill Bar has not be released yet.

It would be more of a relevant discussion if we found out that something similar was done to Necromancer Life-Force (although not nearly to the extent of Adrenaline Decay) happens.

…I am also rooting for a Necromancer change that includes a cleave on one weapon.

fellyn.5083:

BurrTheKing.8571:

I certainly expected worse. Thoughts:

• While the Aden change is going to hurt, it’s going to really distinguish the good Warriors from the bad. It will mean that a good Warrior won’t be too heavily effected by conditions while bad ones will be quickly overwhelmed.

The problem is that conditions are so easily spammed.

You can land a burst skill, proc cleaning ire, and be completely bogged down in conditions again before you get anywhere near full adrenaline again.

There are very distinct, and few builds that will run enough conditions to bog us down like that. And I mean they are full-on dedicated, it’s not a run-of-the-mill condition damage spec, its specialized.

The issue is how CI renders ambient conditions that other builds run either intentionally or not obsolete. The rate we warriors have nullfied any instance of 1-3 conditions on us on a regular, frequent occasion in a fight gives us a huge advantage over anyone else.

But, nerfing CI directly would be too harsh, so you hit it indirectly and offer an alternative that might be more prospective.

Overall Impression: Good Start.

…There ya go, that’s the short version. But I reckon that you might want some more detail right? Well fine, I suppose I best be getting into it then.

Adrenaline Change:
- About time. Let’s be honest, there needed to be some sort of penalty involved for any profession utilizing their trademark capability. For the longest time we Warriors…really did not have a penalty, and I think the Adrenaline loss when missing a burst skill is the PERFECT counter-play to our twin mechanics on short cool-down. Having our Burst Cool-downs extend upon a miss would have caused too much disturbance in how we fight, Adrenaline diminishing will give us a flow and still yield the same effect if we intend on saving for the full adrenaline burst.

In other words, there is now consequences with our choice. Superb.

Traits:
- Rousing Resilience, unfortunately shares the same trait-line as Cleansing Ire and Dogged March, and level as Defy Pain. Still, it’s good to have options? I digress, there is a far more happier change I am interested in.

- Brawler’s Recovery, removes a single condition on weapon swap as opposed to just blind. When I read that a single norn tear was shed, as there was finally some branching options outside of Defense-Tree traits for dealing with conditions. Coupled with the fact that Adrenaline’s nerf indirectly hurts CI (You would be surprised to find out how hard it will be to regain those three bars during the cool-down after you miss your <insert non-longbow burst skill here>). This means that Arena-net acknowledges that there is not enough condi-clear in the other lines to help expand the warrior options VIABLY in any PvP setting. I could not think of a better trait to start with, now let’s come up with a viable way to make that 30 / 6 into Arms viable…

Weapons:
- Rifle: With the adrenaline change, the power-level associated with many warrior weapons was nerfed to some regard. …Which is the perfect time to re-tweak a very gimmick-laden weapon into something with potential. That auto-attack on rifle will hurt OH SO MUCH now, the bleed was really negligible (Condi-rifle hur kitten aderk NO!) so taking that silly ticks away for some more power might pave the way for some interesting builds. Rifle Warriors become slightly more threatening now… pew pew.

- Axe: Spin spin spinning around. Just keep on spinning, grinding them zergs apart…

- Mace: Thanks for giving us the chance to ACTUALLY HIT WITH PULVERIZE!

- Sword: Impale nerfed again? 20 says Condi-warrior is still going to be strong!

- Greatsword: Gotta admit, started seeing that you were nerfing greatsword’s damage, however small, and thought you did not want Warriors to be even second-rate in damage in PvE. Then I saw what you did with Arcing Slice, and I almost hugged my monitor. It is hard to say where Warriors will be in PvE, there will likely be a shift in the Greatsword builds if we are going to be using Arcing Slice below 50%, but MAN does it have a role in mass damage in large-scale fights!

Utilities:
- Signet of Rage: Pfft, who needs boons? Signet is a welcome sight for warriors who WILL become Adrenaline starved now. Good for you!

- Signet of Might: I believe I read this particular change suggested by someone in the Warrior forums a long time ago. Inb4MightSignetSniperWarriors.

- Berserker Stance: I did feel like I was cheating with my adrenaline gain from popping this stance. A needed and justified nerf.

- Banners: You know, banners are still clunky, but you are on the right track!

- Rampage: I see what you are doing there, trying to make this elite skill appealing enough to influence enough players to run some amount of condition in their ZvZ comps to handle giant tanks whom are practically immune to movement impairment.
I got my eyes on you….But in all seriousness, given the changes to Adrenaline, it might be really entertaining to see an influx of new Warriors running around with this Elite.

And there you have it. I COULD go into immense detail on each little thing, like how the Adrenaline Depletion effectively makes Healing Surge worthless. That’s another time though.