Guild Wars 2

Bombsaway.7198:

Warriors need to go back to being very susceptible to condition damage.
I would focus on nerfing their ability to cleanse.
Warriors should do physical and eat condition.

Then we need to do a hell of a lot more physical damage.

You know, since the condition meta is king, if we were the profession that conditions absolutely destroy, then our physical damage would have to be something to die for.

In PvE warriors are wanted in all sorts of content for the banners we bring as well as us being 2nd Tier DPS, having 1-2 a group is not a bad thing.

In WvW we have a variety of builds to go with, and are pretty much viable in all kinds of fights from Zerg v Zerg, Small Group fights and Roaming.

In PvP like many professions we are forced into a few viable builds, Hambow was the most effective one which will be getting a slight hit as well as our Healing Signet as well. I still see us as a threat, but Conditions are still going to be king.

Skimming over the warrior weapon sets and their capabilities, I believe that one of the ones that seems to be the most…let’s say mechanically wonky would be the Rifle on Warrior.

Everytime you bring up Rifle on a warrior in a variety of environments from PvE, WvW, or SPvP, I would get some rather interesting feedback.

“The damage is alright on it, but I prefer Longbow in dungeons since LB does more damage overall.”

“Killshot is OP! You can’t see that one warrior on the side with his knee bent for 2 seconds!”

“Killshot is UP! Too easy to see, hardest skill in game to line up even with Frenzy popped!”

“Going Crack Shot and piercing with the Rifle would be great if targetting the furthest enemy were easier. Also I feel the Brutal Shot and Aimed Shot are still a bit lackluster…”

Overall, when you think of the Warrior Rifle mechanically, it seems like its design intent when you see all its damage types as the more Physical ranged weapon on the warrior without the burning or intense bleeding that the Longbow has. But if the weapon itself can’t even find its mark in its own prime state, as in being that raw damage weapon choice over Longbow, then it is a problem.

Going through some WvW I have noticed that Rifle has been picking up speed in having a few warriors dash out to the side to start laying down intense pressue with Crack Shot and Kill Shot. I think to myself ‘Finally there seems to be some active viable use for the Rifle somewhere in the world’ of which promptly gets attacked in a few threads calling out Killshot as being impossible to detect, akin to an Staff Elementalist’s Meteor Shower or something of that magnitude.

And I can’t entirely disagree with that notion.

There is certainly an argument for just being aware of every single opponent on the enemy zerg, but at the very least you see fire literally rain down upon you when someone pops Meteor Shower, if the Killshot fires you do not have any chance of dodging in time unless you saw it coming, and your attention really outta be on the 19-39 other enemies on the field. Perhaps we really do need something like a ‘target’ painted on the killshot intended victim so they can at least know when to dodge, which will effectively nerf Killshot’kitten rate everywhere else in this game save PvE…

Which brings me to my question Profession Balance. What do we do? Just some thoughts of mine so far that could help the Rifle in other fields if we actually made Killshot even more easy to tell:

- Crack shot’s pierce actually has the shot go through the target with an extra 100 range. The Rifle Projectile actually pierces through the intended target to other enemies on the other side, rather than pierce just the enemies in front.

- Brutal Shot CD reduced to 10s from 15s, Vulnerability Stacks reduced to 5 stacks lasting 12 seconds from 8 stacks lasting 12 seconds. This change will increase the effectiveness of vulnerability on a target that can’t dodge from every brutal shot off CD, but requires two shots to get the full effect. There is a possible window for a 15 stack popped with frenzy to killshot with, it is something to aim for and actually makes ‘On My Mark’ make it 25 stacks that the warrior can put HIMSELF.

- Aimed Shot is fine on its own, however a corresponding trait that works well with it, Leg Specialist, applies a 1 second immobilize on a single target with a 5 second ICD. Either make it immobilize multiple targets utilizing Crack Shot, or make the immobilize 2 seconds.

- Rifle Bunt and Bleeding Shot (AA) can stay as is for now, no ideas from me.

It definitely feels like the rifle is just shy of being Viable in many places, for now I suppose we could just keep seeing “OMG nerf killshot” threads on a weapon that really does not have a place anywhere else. Or we can make the rifle competitive but a bit more skillful to play with.

Black Box.9312:

Vena.8436:

hooma.9642:

esp with 8% its only of level of best healing surge.. thats not fair for healing surge users that have a potential danger of getting interrupt

You’re overlooking the fact that Healing Surge (for all its other issues) can be controlled. I cannot tell HSignet to not tick during poison (even moreso now that it will be losing hps). I can, however, choose to use HSurge when I have removed said poison.

How is that even a remotely compelling argument? 33% of the ENTIRE heal is lost when poisoned while using it. Therefore 5 seconds of poison will give you only 67% of your heal over the whole 30 second cooldown of the skill. Being poisoned for 5 seconds with healing signet? You lose 33% over a whole 5 seconds, which over the same 30 seconds amounts to about 5.5% of a loss in potential health gain.

33% > 5.5%

Don’t forget that all of these arguments involve only strictly cases where Adrenaline is at the peak for the strongest Surge heal. Which is situational, and entirely based around said warrior not using any of his burst abilities which is atrocious design.

Healing Surge is never going to be popped every single time at 30s.

Ostricheggs.3742:

FINALLY, implying that warriors only remain viable because of how healing signet currently is is ridiculous. Warriors quite literally control the meta right now. Healing signet is so kittening powerful that it’s nearly impossible to bring them down without poison (an insane proposition in and of itself given warriors vast access to condi clear).

I have never met anyone in PvP who does not believe healing signet isn’t broken. I was present in a balance round-table discussion, of the 15 pvp representatives present ALL 15 (warriors included) cited healing signet as being game-breakingly strong and in desperate need of a nerf.

I am all for bringing Healing Signet down to a level where Poison won’t quite be needed to defeat their sustain, provided that warriors also have other healing options available that are not for the profession, absolute garbage.

Looking at Healing Signet, the lowest I think it can reliably go before Warriors themselves start seeing themselves back over a year ago would be around 320-325 HPS, or another 40 per second more than what A-Net came up with.

Compensation-wise, the active on it needs to go up sharply since it would be a last-resort to activate it, and the healing power ratio on it could go up a tad so only warriors specced into full healing power can elevate them back to the sustain you see now on every warrior.

However….

Every other alternative heal, an issue NO other profession has right now, is broken on the warrior. Healing Surge isn’t a strategically planned heal as much as it is the only heal in game to PENALIZE you for using it right. And for the kind of burst heal it provides considering the heal pool, at the very least the numbers across all adrenaline levels need to go up 10%! The healing power however is fine on this skill.

Mending is outdated as a condition cleanse by what you already know about the warrior traits and utilities, and the healing is laughable. It needs a nice rework.

Defiant Stance…super situational, and it has not really been out in the field long enough for me to cast a firm judgment. So far, its unpopular thanks to Healing Signet. (Kind of fun to Troll glass thieves with though, Stances and Mastery make for a funny build.)

As much as I appreciate your considered opinion and that of your colleagues Ostrich, Warriors are still in need of a lot of help MECHANICALLY in the healing department as opposed to NUMBERS.

…Seriously?

Warriors and their power level are being dwindled down bit by bit, as to not completely make them free kills like their previous incarnation. Stop trying so hard to be as destructive to the warrior profession and GW2 in general as you have been in your posts. It’s getting old.

The fact that Guardians have been a part of the meta throughout various significant patches just proves just how BALANCED they are, where their power level has not sharply fallen or risen. This is a GOOD thing.

Thieves were completely broken before, they are ‘managable’ although some slight tuning could work. Elementalists are in the reverse situation of Warriors in the fact that over various patches they are receiving one or two significant changes to their builds to help them survive. The next one to come up would definitely bring DD eles to an even more powerful role than before. Mesmers overall are a tricky class, but still completely viable in all aspects with specilized builds capable of 1v1s (Mesmers are the duelist profession in this game), roaming, small group and some utility in zergs. However they definitely need more outstanding damage in ZvZ.

Also stop being so negative, vague and unconstructive in your posts. Provide alternatives and look at every single angle of a skill you think is likely broken and don’t stop spouting random nerfs that won’t ever take off.

Guardians absolute bunker better than Warriors on point, even warriors fully specced into their bunker can’t easily pull it off. Warriors however do in fact have more damage as a bunker, but that is not intent of being a bunker.

Guardian bunker weapons are extremely defensive and control whereas Warrior bunker is aggressive and control on point. Compare hammers, shields, maces, etc. of each profession mechanically and realize this truth.

Warriors are a strong bunkery profession but they do not beat Guardians at the role.

Xae.7204:

That you think it is “mass-hysteria” and not “well deserved mass outrage” speaks volumes for your own delusions.

This ‘outrage’ has already been addressed by A-Net in the degree of how much they are bringing down healing signet’s sustain by in the near future.

I apologize if I don’t see this ‘issue’ to the degree of which you do, but there are other issues with Warrior balancing I would not mind discussing with you like the distinct lack of viability in going 30 into Strength for more than one build, or perhaps the clunky Banner mechanics the warrior has.

I am deflecting from your arguments, but only because you are repeating the same thing over and over again without giving any response to how other profession mechanics can equate to what a warrior can do. I will agree on one point, that warriors at least have the most variance in what they can run viably in any scenario, but that might be synonymous with how far Warriors have come compared to everyone else who might need more buffs in independant builds. For example, DD eles are going to be strong once again with recent changes. This is progress overall for profession balance and not just outstanding unwarranted cries for needless nerfing of a profession that can’t actually take what a vocal group are suggesting.

Prysin.8542:

- Snip -

Stopping you right there. We have already addressed the points given about ‘comparing straight up healing’ and that same point is dismissed when you have to compare mechanics and capabilities like Protection, Traits, Utilities, Skills, etc.

Although Rangers themselves need a lot of love at this time, it is utterly unfair and wrong to compare sustains when the two professions are distinctively different.

Xae.7204:

Sykper.6583:

Deimos is not trolling, every single argument Den has posted was utterly and irrevocably subjective. Although both of these people might have varied definitions on what dominant versus popular actually are, the point is that not a single ‘point’ Den has stated shows anything about the power of the Warrior, only their frequency of play which is high. Which absolutely makes sense since Warriors are probably one of the most popular and played classes across all MMOs, and far easier to grasp in MMOs as well.

Subjective much?

People respond to incentives. This is basic ecnomics.

Right now people are incentivized to play Warrior because it is the strongest class in the game.

Ranger, Elementalist, Necromancer and Guardian (Paladin) are all standard Fantasy tropes. Even Mesmer (Illusionist) is not new, nor is Engineer.

To a degree, but there is also a factor of appeal and familiarity.

You don’t know what a ‘Guardian’ is until someone explains to you that it’s similar to a paladin. But the paladin trope might not appeal to everyone as much as a berserking warrior capable of creating havoc. Tastes play a huge part, and Warriors have always (using your logic in terms of what subjectivity indicates) been popular and easy to figure out. It’s literally the original ‘pick up a big weapon and smash things.’

Mesmers are probably the least familiar trope of the group, illusionists weren’t quite that popular in a combat setting until portrayed in television…wait I think I am going WAY off course.

Anyways, just because people might perceive warrior to be a strong profession is not enough proof on its own that it actually IS a strong profession, and I have played them all. I know exactly what warriors have, and what they lack compared to other professions and if you wish to take popular opinion into account, then consider that this mass-hysteria over healing signet despite it already going to be nerfed in some degree soon ought to fade with time. Much like a ‘Fad’ going on.

Xae.7204:

thaooo.5320:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits

Questionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.

Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.

Other classes don’t get to do that while having 400HPS and 30K+ EHP and doing solid damage.

Yet they have other tools like blinks, stealth, protection, aegis…you know, those things Warrior’s don’t have access to?

I have looked at your posts and you seem to be under the distinct impression that every single warrior runs a shield, or every single warrior runs a hammer. If you want to list every single benefit and potential a warrior has with every single build, then we also have to address every single benefit and tool the other professions have that complement themselves as well.

Warriors right now have to run the traits and utilities you described just to survive the current meta right now, and considering the duration and cooldown of these capabilities there is plenty of time to find an opening in a warrior’s defenses. And every warrior build has weaknesses, and actually every warrior build has the same weakness since they have to run healing signet! Imagine that.

Xae.7204:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Please. Now you want to redefine my post to suit your needs? I know what dominant means. What I stated was factual.

Enough. Deimos, stop trolling this thread.

no, not to suit my needs, because you are attempting to spread wrong information. this is uncalled for.

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular, you did not and can not prove that warriors are dominant.

warriors are popular, but they are not dominant.

enough, Thedenofsin, stop spreading incorrect information about warriors.

tPVP/sPvP/solo – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. proof.

wvw zergs – the side with the most warriors will win the vast majority of the time. Double warrior is still the meta and is only defeated by teams that are vastly better coordinated. proof

dungeons/fractals – take a look at LFG. 4warrior+mesmer (TW bot) for the fastest clears. proof.

open world events – Warriors will get the most karma and the fastest kills. Look at any tutorial video on how to grind karma the fastest and it will state that warrior is the best. proof.

There’s your proof. If you want more, then go find it yourself.

Deimos, I am shocked at how blind you are to your own bias. Are you some kind of shill for the developers?

If warriors are truly balanced, then you would not see these kinds of threads, and so many of them. The only people who try to defend warriors are the people that actually play them.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

what you stated is factual, but you merely stated that warriors are popular,<snip>

I stated warriors are dominant, not popular. Stop trolling this thread.

Warriors are so OP that they can’t even be moderated on the forums. Deimos is trolling and mods never stop him.

Deimos is not trolling, every single argument Den has posted was utterly and irrevocably subjective. Although both of these people might have varied definitions on what dominant versus popular actually are, the point is that not a single ‘point’ Den has stated shows anything about the power of the Warrior, only their frequency of play which is high. Which absolutely makes sense since Warriors are probably one of the most popular and played classes across all MMOs, and far easier to grasp in MMOs as well.

Necrotize.2974:

Warriors don’t have clones/stealth/aegis/evades etc. That’s because they don’t need it. They have the bursting power with minimal points spent to take down bursty classes like thieves with a few well placed skills and the sustain necessary to not fall to a burst build. Heck, I’d give up stealth on my thief for a passive heal strong enough to keep me alive through bursts in a heartbeat.

The main reason healing signet/adrenal health leaves a bad taste in people’s mouths is because it is all passive play. Everything about a warriors sustain screams brainless. Automatically regen health, no need to worry about poison or when to use heal because its always going off and there is no real reason to use the active. No need to worry about conditions because they naturally cleanse themselves when you use burst skills every 9 seconds. Low on hp? Endure pain will automatically activate for you, giving you 4 seconds of that passive healing to get you back to a safe spot.

FYI, I laugh at warriors running Defy Pain, such a bad trait-

Anyways, you made points that we don’t need clones/stealth/other tools, but then what do we have if we don’t capabilities out in the open? Nerfing Berserker Stance to its previous incarnation and warriors have zero means to deal with overwhelming conditions, since Cleansing Ire only cures up to three conditions BASED on your Adrenaline. Nerf Cleansing Ire and we don’t have any natural condition removal in our utilities save Mending whose abysmal flat heal needs some help, and Shake it off does NOT count enough. Warriors finally have a means to deal with conditions, and there are counters to said means.

Warriors have to juggle these long CD stances and signets for a reason, we have to pop them at right times since the uptimes aren’t nearly as long as you would think. Not to mention most of the weapons for warriors do not proc Cleansing Ire unless they go off and/or hit a target, Longbow is the only one that reliably applies the burst as a special case, but it is getting another nerf in March.

We have our means to withstand it all, other professions have theirs. Warriors are in a good spot right now, but that doesn’t mean other professions do not have their own issues.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

The problem with it is, it costs them NOTHING right off the bat it is insanely broken when every other class has to HEAVILY build for Healing Power they have no need when combined with a 15point trait they get 1325- 1560Hp3second At what cost? 1 signet and 15 trait points.

It is clear that Adrenal health upper health as well as Healing Signet need to be nerfed down not only in its base healing but make it require actual Healing Power to make it really strong.

Here’s the deal, biggest thing people keep forgetting.

HPS versus Health Pool. You can actively observe the relationship between HPS and Health with every single build on each profession. Higher than average HPS with lower than normal Health Pools will hinder sustained damage builds but favor extremely high burst. High Health Pools with Low HPS creates a build whose sustain cannot actually refill the health in any significantly low amount of time, thus this build is not only suspectible to burst but also any real sustained damage. Having an extra 3k life does not equate well in losing 100 HPS.

Factoring in how they are nerfing the Healing Signet already by 8% soon (fairly specific number mind you), Arenanet is making the stance that yes, Healing Signet is strong, but not NEARLY as strong as people are raving about. If warriors cannot sustain their advantage in a health pool, they would demand to have at least some compensation like Protection access instead since the extra couple thousand life would be easily burned through without having any way to get it back up.

Rezzet.3614:

Coldtart.4785:

Or because every other warrior healing skill is bogged down in pointless utility that warriors can get better versions of elsewhere and healing signet is the only one that just heals and heals high. Does it heal too much? I don’t 1v1 warriors enough to know. But the simple fact is warriors will always use the highest HP/s heal in their list.

Perhaps the heal interval should be lengthened so it heals every 3 seconds instead to accentuate the weakness to burst in return for the large heal rate.

i disagree wih the other utility healing skills being pointless

but yes healing signet heals to much because it is usualy combined with
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
wich makes gives warrior 400 hp per second plus another 360 hp every 3 seconds

as for the other heals being useless:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mending+http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Strength and you got a 5-6k heal+ massive condition remover on a stupidly short cooldown

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Surge+http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Restorative_Strength 10k heal+cc remover 30 second cooldown

give a 10k heal that removes cc to medium classes and you ll see just how worthless it really is

Fun fact: Bunker engineers with healing bombs and backpack regenerator need over 1600 healing power to achieve warrior’s passive regen and they are extremely succeptible to conditions

Mending has a pitiful 262 healing every second, which does nothing for the warrior health pool in which we are trying to keep healthy. Just because we have the highest health pool in game does not mean we don’t need to keep it up as such, and Mending will never do the job on its own. Its condition removal is out-dated by recent changes to traits and thusly needs to be tweaked or reworked to compensate.

Healing Surge is way too restrictive and not every build will run Restorative Strength with it. I have already many a time described the overwhelming issue with this heal in question, but frankly it needs a rework so that it does not punish too severely for using it too early.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Let’s take a survey. If you think, the warrior is OP, bump this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-Yes/

If you think the warrior is balanced, bump this thread.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-the-warrior-OP-No/

Since balance is not only about number but also a subjective assessment, it would be nice to know what the majority thinks.

The forums are the ‘minority’ actually.

There are also intricate problems with balancing based on a majority decision.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Deimos, you have done nothing to prove warriors are not overpowered. Your statements are 100% opinion, not based upon any evidence whatsoever. In fact, the only counter-argument you can try to come up with is simply denial.

Provide proof warriors are balanced properly. What you state is pure conjecture, not supported by any facts.

If they are so balanced, why have they been nerfed twice in a row?

This is my last response, because, quite frankly it is clear you are incomprehensibly biased. Evangelistic zealots cannot be convinced they are wrong, no matter how much truth you place in front of them.

Go prosthelytize somewhere else.

Thank god, because the sheer amount of irony you have shown through all the posts you have made in this thread without offering any conclusive proof….well, let’s just say you are on the other extremist end.

Threads like these should really be locked, as they offer nothing but subjective criticism that can’t accurately be measured nor reasoned with.

Bombsaway.7198:

No one expects that a warrior can do all things in all builds anymore than anyone expects any other class to have a build that can take all its strengths. Doesn’t change the simple fact that a warrior has more and can take more to battle than any other class.

As for incremental nerfs, I think ANet made a huge mistake not overnerfing the warrior’s healing signet and then bringing it up. You nerf small when things are close to aligned and nerf hard when there is a large deviation away from balance. Warrior is quite a ways from being balanced. Hit hard. Hit now.

It is unimaginably scary that you honestly think that balance is as simple as what you have described. Each and every change needs to be considerably thought out, and complete overhauls like you describe need to be completely examined thoroughly for a long time.

Just stop.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

Most people do not understand how balance between classes is done.

The whole concept of balancing is done around two things:
1. So does Warrior.
2. Warrior does it better.

Guardians have natural health regen? So does Warrior, for triple the amount.
Necromancers have the highest HP? So does Warrior.
Thieves have highest mobility? So does Warrior.
Guardians have highest armor? So does Warrior.
Rangers have spirits? So does Warrior, with 4 indestructible ones.
Guardians can block? So does Warrior, for many more hits.
Mesmers can perma Vigor? So does Warrior, not better? Nerf Mesmer Perma Vigor.
Eles can have immunity to conditions? So does Warrior.
Guardians have an Elite Invulnerability? So does Warrior, but it’s not Elite.
Other classes have high DPS? So does Warrior.

As humorous as this post is, it only further perpetuates an incorrect stigma that every single warrior is capable of every single one of those things in a single build.

But I’ll take a gander-

“Engineers and Thief poison fields too good? Nerfed thanks to warriors!”
“Minion Necros losing damage and sustain? Warriors did it!”

ThiBash.5634:

Sykper.6583

Many people are trying to defend Healing Surge as a viable option, however mechanically it is more broken than any other heal in the game, and its HPS is reliant on not utilizing the unique feature of the warrior class, Adrenaline and Burst! It’s seriously the only heal that punishes you for using it! To put it into perspective, it would be like if a Guardian Heal suddenly put all your Virtues on Cooldown, or an Elementalist heal only healed for more in a certain Attunement.

For the record…the Elementalist’s Glyph of Elemental Harmony does exactly that.

And I respect them for it.

TBF, you do have other heals on said ele though that work just as well.

DanSH.6143:

-Snip-

That’s nice, until you really look at what you are suggesting.

Running Dolyak, Balanced Stance, and Lyssa? I can understand going overboard on a certain thing, but Stability only really affects strong CC builds, and does NOTHING else. Any warrior worth a kitten knows running too much stability is a bad thing, you would never see warriors running that much stability (You choose Dolyak or Balanced Stance, not both) unless they are certain they are facing enemies with aggressive amounts of CC that they feel the need to have 20+ seconds of Stability. Not to mention Stability can be stripped by many a PvP build out there. Also considering how strong conditions are, CC is the least of your worries.

Combustive Shot may force you off a point, but you do not absolutely NEED to stand in it, and once you know a warrior has a hammer you kitten well should be ready to dodge. Most good warriors are looking for that lovely CC rotation innate in the hammer, and ever since Earthshaker’s damage was nerfed it’s only real viability is to set up the CC chain, meaning you keep a stun-break ready to deal with it. Pin down is already being addressed by A-Net, and although I thought it definitely needed a slight nerf, I did not expect them to address it mechanically as opposed to its damage conditionally. It’s now going to be even more important for the warrior to count dodges for Pin Down since its cast time might not make it against a profession running CC reduction if said warrior stunned first.

Toughness is a terrible soft mitigation that everyone has to a degree, and THANKFULLY it will actually show some promise when the Ferocity changes go into play. Going back to your previous example with a high stability warrior, that build’s biggest weakness would have been burst damage since Crit Damage scaled beyond what Toughness caps out at. Any thief worth a kitten would have been the hard counter to your build. Adrenal Health is NOT a mitigation, its a sustain, and its affected just as much by poison as Healing Signet.

I never said Berserker stance was situational, it is actually in its current form probably the best stance, the synergy between it and Endure Pain grants Warriors a unique capability to actually be immune to damage on a point and still contest it. However, out of SPvP we end up wasting two utility slots for semi-lengthy cooldowns to get something many other classes have, actual invulnerability.

Don’t get me wrong, Healing Signet is a good healing skill, but it is our only healing skill at this time. That’s the biggest issue I have right now.

…..Absolutely absurd, its like Deja Vu all over again. The same points and counter-points are being discussed, yet there is no ACTUAL constructive arguments that have not already been pointed out yet.

Let me give you guys the distinct reasons why they cannot nerf Healing Signet anymore than they will with the balance patch coming up:

1 – Other healing choices for warriors are absolute garbage.

Many people are trying to defend Healing Surge as a viable option, however mechanically it is more broken than any other heal in the game, and its HPS is reliant on not utilizing the unique feature of the warrior class, Adrenaline and Burst! It’s seriously the only heal that punishes you for using it! To put it into perspective, it would be like if a Guardian Heal suddenly put all your Virtues on Cooldown, or an Elementalist heal only healed for more in a certain Attunement.

Then we have Mending, I am fairly certain with all the Healing Signet complaints that the Devs have forgotten about this obsolete heal. It has zero place in our builds with access to regular condition cleanse that does a good enough job to deal with the condition meta. Either it needs to be reworked, or make it cleanse ALL conditions every 20 seconds so we can say ’Don’t need Cleansing Ire, got me this Mending!’.

Defiant Stance, stupidly situational I can’t even bat this an eye anymore without thinking ‘Who can I troll with a well-timed play?’.

2 – We have a decent amount of Hard Mitigation, but Zero Soft Mitigation.

Hard Mitigation includes Condition Immunities, Damage Immunities, Shield Blocks, Evades, anything that actively prevents damage coming in.

Soft Mitigation includes Aegis, Protection, Stealth, Damage Redirection (Looking at you rangers). These kinds of mitigation have the potential to prevent incoming damage.

Stealth is an important one to note here, and the most situational of the mitigations out there, it can prevent incoming direct damage if your enemy can’t get a good track of where you are to guess his AoEs and Swings at. Thieves if traited can deal with conditions while in stealth, making it all the more impressive.

Warriors have the capacity for having methods to deal with all kinds of damage in a single build, but the more we spec into defense, the less likely you will see that same warrior being able to output a huge 10k blow to you, he’s going to either go condition or decent sustained/pressure power. Said warriors going the absolute extremes in Hard Mitigation (Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, and a Shield) have a reduced amount of utilities, meaning the only thing you have to worry about are what weapons said warriors are using. And once you know a Warrior’s weapons, you can pretty much guess his every move considering how telegraphed we are, at which stage it is a L2P issue.

3 – We do not have an infinite amount of everything.

We are not permanently in Stability, our CC has been greatly nerfed sinces it’s previous incarnations, Cleansing Ire will still crumble to high amounts of condition spam, Adrenal Health’s HPS is 120 per second if we never use a burst skill, so it fluxates between 40 – 120 during the fight. Every single ‘benefit’ you list for a warrior does not apply to EVERY WARRIOR.

Trust me when I say this. Unlike the other professions that have a great deal of ‘tools’ to be used, Warriors have the only perk of being an reliably tenacious force on the field. We have to rely on our knowledge of other professions’ builds and then find the hard way to brute force our way to victory. We don’t have the luxury of sneaking up on someone to burst, and our gap closers are still a bit wonky.

We don’t need another thread describing previous arguments already made back and forth with concern to Healing Signet. Needless to say, dropping Healing Signet to anything below 350 Healing Per Second and you immediately invalidate it’s viability. Not to mention the other major issues with Healing Utilities on the warrior…

The above points are true, events beginning at pre-determined times is easier to manage on a server level and organize for. At the same time, when said organizations are played out, it becomes cumbersome due to overflow occuring at a ‘soft-cap’ population.

Obviously my solution was for the actual servers themselves in mind, dealing with the wait period in a better fashion. Of course, if a server group wishes to wait the extended duration if said event was completed BEFORE they got there to do it, that’s about the same option we already have right now with other World Bosses.

With my example above, I was merely illustrating my own personal opinion about watchwork’s mechanics, of course not everyone will agree that we need more lesser mobs. It however had little to do with the overall point that this would be a fairly good band-aid fix over the already troublesome ‘long wait’ period we have for current world bosses.

And that is how you would be able to solve many an issue with the current state of World bosses!

“Wait what? What you talking about?”

I should explain. Right now effectively every single World boss except for Karka Queen has a certain timer on it or the pre-events that lead up to it. Whereas Karka Queen is linked to ‘Event Toggles’ of four events that need to be kept complete for a short duration to force her out of hiding!

…So why don’t we see this more often? Is it too difficult to have another World boss trigger similar in fashion to Karka Queen, where a few warm-up quests have to be completed sequentially or at the same time, occuring MORE OFTEN THAN EVERY TWO HOURS, with the pre-event difficulty scaled to an amount for the players involved to be capable of besting the world boss itself? Maybe the toggle quests are every 30 minutes to lessen the wait time, yet provide enough time to organize attempts? In fact, to prevent the event from being farmed too often in a day grant a successful kill of said world boss a 2 hour respawn (Pretty much just like the Queen). You shorten the waiting period, and still maintain a certain number of times a day a boss can be killed!

As for difficulty, bosses like Marionette are a huge step in the right direction for difficulty for the server! Of course requiring mostly everyone in the zone to participate but the mechanics / health pools are far more forgiving than Tequatl or Wurm bosses. I am also of the mind that encounters could definitely use more ‘Kill a vast number of vets and champs to progress the fight’ involved.

My request is thus: Create more world bosses delivered on a toggle sequence as opposed to a flat timer, with a difficulty in line with the pre-event’s requirement and scaling. The Marionette Fight is just about perfect in difficulty to involved everyone in the zone with only very few bugs (portals not splitting people accurately up for Wardens)

I am extremely happy A-Net that you spent a large amount of time on the Marionette encounter to such a degree, and I am going to feel a bit of sadness to see it go away. I do not thing the Wurm will be too easy to pull off even after the strategy has been found out, but if you bring out more dungeons and world bosses with such design as I have listed above…I think you got us for a while!

So, silly question.

Have we already dismissed the idea that Scarlet might be using one dragon to fight another? We can absolute acknowledge that some dragon, either Mordremoth or Primordus, seems to be influencing her at this time. However what bothers me is exactly given what Scarlet knows, what does she plan to do with that knowledge?

- She obviously disagrees with the ‘design’ inherent in the Sylvari, and she might have perceived some manner of the Eternal Alchemy at the risk of her psyche.
- She knows the leylines, and has figured out their pattern across Tyria, thanks to the Reactor.
- Forging alliances she was able to gain vast knowledge on much technology and magic to make the Marionette and the ‘supposed’ drill it was manipulated by.
- Great Jungle Wurms stirring, Tequatl’s strength growing, Scarlet’s vision of a red eye, a red dragon painting, vines wrapped around the ‘Pale Tree’.

• Or that could be the Nightmare Tree, but I think that was more of an end result with her Toxic Alliance.

All of this, her tests on Tyrian residents, was probably at the start for her goal to deal with the threat coming now. Tequatl’s strength growing was likely the result of the demise of Zhaitan overfilling Tyria with more magic than normal. If that were true, then it might be expected that Elder Dragons might begin to awaken sooner than Tyria can manage. Scarlet is taking extremely insane measures to reduce the casualties by perfecting her kitten nal and setting the stage for two Elder dragons to contest one another.

Now, however it’s likely Scarlet might have given in to Primordus’s influence, since she’s actually trying to bring him to the surface forcibly. Still, this works out in her favor if Primordus rises before Mordremoth does.

She’s still crazy though.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

Blade Syphon.4325:

I’m sorry, but one persons personal enjoyment does not outweigh everyone elses

Hmmmm… so does YOUR personal enjoyment (ensuring everyone meets YOUR requirements) outweigh the personal enjoyment of the new player who wants to try the new content because they think it might be fun to feel like a part of the big open world they paid to use just as much as you did? You are implying that more experienced players deserve more enjoyment, are you not?

Implicit attacking of someone’s character is fun.

No one is arguing that anyone can’t have any personal fun, but this is a MMO, a massively multiplayer online game. It literally means you aren’t the only one playing this game, that you influence the enjoyment of others with your actions for the good and the bad.

It would be one thing if the content were in a competitive environment like WvW, but instead it is PvE content requiring the cooperation of many individuals to gain a greater reward than one’s own self can gain normally. If said selfish players do not want to listen to feedback by their server comrades on how to do a certain mechanic correctly and act of their own accord, thereby ruining the experience of everyone who is actually trying to do the encounter together…

Then it is the outlier that’s the issue. You SHARE enjoyment in an MMO, you don’t take it all for yourself. Otherwise you are toxic to the MMO environment.

Note: This only applies in instances where said selfish player is going above and beyond to ensure he enjoys himself far more than everyone else, to the scope of practically making content impossible for everyone due to his actions. EVEN after repeat attempts to tell him/her what they can do to be helpful rather than hurtful.

It does NOT apply if it is meaningless badgering, or insults for the sake of insulting. Toxicity goes both ways.

Pretty sure we have had this discussion before, and the consensus was that the sake of the many did in fact outweigh the few in practically every case. (Think it was a talk about Dungeons, Berserker vs. Tanky runs, etc.)

So, I do not mean to criticize harshly, you have valid points in that if a difficult encounter can be done in an instance to reduce the strain of trying to ‘carry’ those less involved or interested, that it should be. The wurm fight in particular is definitely throwing me back to early Tequatl, and we all know how it is now.

However….

On that same token, provided you put enough interest to come to the event, you should be willing to learn, listen, and pay attention to some degree to everything. It is an absolutely terrible argument to suggest that content should be designed about not being a learning experience, that everyone is not capable of pulling their own weight. Every single encounter so far in this game has ‘dos’ and ‘donts’. If interested parties are not willing to, even after repeative attempts, learn what they are doing wrong, or taking a lesser role in the fight, then it is the fault of the player in question and NOT the encounter.

Going to use the Marionette for an example. Aside from the ‘tower defense’ portion, one of the lane’s each phase has the honor of going up onto five platforms with randomly distributed comrades (This is bugged, you could have one person stuck on a single platform alone lol). With each platform comes a champion boss mob, with its mechanics literally legible UNDERNEATH ITS NAME.

I can understand some mechanics are vague, but it takes no real amount of common sense to see that if a mob has “Takes no damage from attacks to the front”, on top of having a giant red arrow show its facing for the player to figure out a few things:

- That the arrow shows which direction it won’t take damage from.
- That the player should try moving to its rear.
- (A bit more thought) That a player with its aggro should keep it still for their teammates.

….I agree with what you say FreshM, players should to an extent have the most difficult content available in an instanced form perhaps in the future. However do not doubt the tenacity of players on the Server who actually WILL inform and try to teach others on how to do the content. It is better for the long run if such encounters remain in the open world to help pull the server together rather than apart.

The problem is with players who absolute refuse to learn, who waste everyone else’s time and openly insult any criticism they receive. My only wish is for more means to deal with such toxic players who make entirely feasible encounters much harder than they should be. There seems to be too much player entitlement imo, people have gotten too cozy with easy content that they think open world bosses should be a cake-walk.

And the worst part? Some of these players to some degree have done prior ‘difficult’ content and have piggybacked on solid strategies that were not around back when the content came out. Back then, people did not originally stack for Subject Alpha, they spread out to mitigate the damage and play it safe. Kholer was killed always, having a single person tank and ready to dodge behind the pillar every other ranged person was using to LoS his pull.

People really need to stop being stubborn and make actual attempts to learn from their mistakes, and if they can’t perform the job, to try to find an easier position in the encounter to still get credit for.

Arlette.9684:

Sykper.6583:

I think I have probably deviated from the point a bit at this time, but overall the problem is not necessarily warriors, but the battlefield that is unfair to everyone else. So rather than make warriors into the previous husks that they were in PvP much like everyone else, wouldn’t it be better if other professions had more capabilities to handle conditions, or at least more viable builds in PvP?

It’s easier for ANet to nerf 1 class than buff 7 others. ANet likes simple, makes them work less.

It’s not the right solution. Simple does not always make it right, you can’t make chess into checkers and expect things to play the same.

Thedenofsin.7340:

- snip -

You aren’t exactly proving your point if you do the same exact thing as the person you are pointing out and making an overgeneralization. Rather, you probably could have tackled each point (Are warriors better or worse at bunkering than Guardians?) and made a valid argument as opposed to simply stating warriors are ‘overpowered’.

Fortunately, I am here to make things clear.

After playing warrior for some 2k+ hours, going through the ups and downs of the profession throughout several iterations, what I can confirm is that you are correct, warriors are in a strong state. But not for the reasons you specify.

Here are the actual reasons right now Warriors are strong:

- They are probably the only profession that across all their builds, can deal with the prominent condition meta decently. Between Cleansing Ire (The strongest trait to handle the meta), Dogged March, and Berserker Stance Warriors have a means to give themselves enough mitigation to handle a potent condition bunker profession to an extent. That ALONE makes them a reliable pick in PvP and gives them an edge in popularity (not to mention the warrior profession and class as a whole is a very popular one across all MMOs).

- With the above advantages, the ways to deal with any warrior lessen, and then those ways lessen even further depending on WHAT the warrior in question is running. Hambow, MaceShield/Greatsword, SS/Bow Condition, etc are all extremely different playstyles and stat-based builds that run a similar set-up to deal with the condition meta. All of these have different weaknesses and strengths which cause a huge balancing issue. If for instance a thief build hard-countered MaceShield/Greatsword but fell short against SS/Bow condition since blinds can’t really affect that build too well, then said thief’s build only works really well on one build. And with Warriors having a huge list of builds to choose from (This is actually something important to note), the counter to them diminishes further.

- This is something important to note. Despite all their advantages, in terms of a much longer variety of weapons and builds to choose from, the similar nature of all of them to a single tree of traits, how effective said traits are to dealing with the condition meta that no other profession can do the same with, Warriors are actually in a broken state:
>The other healing abilities do not even compare to the utility in terms of sustain that Healing Signet provides. Healing Surge is a punishment heal for the Warrior who really does not need that Adrenaline maxed-out on a use, and whose healing compares to healing signet only when a warrior is at maximum Adrenaline. Mending is outdated thanks to the appeal of the new condition defenses the warrior has received recently. Defiant Stance is stupidly beyond Situational to be considered viable…
> Defense Tree is extremely appealing considering its survivability thanks to the condition meta, whereas other trees like Strength or Arms need some substantial buffs to grant ideal alternatives to being just a tanky warrior. Right now there aren’t enough ‘extremes’ to the competitive warrior builds, there is no such thing as a true glass-cannon warrior that can do well in PvP since warriors don’t have access to stealth, aegis, or protection to help them close the gap. Many of their gap-closers are still bugged to all hell, and for god’s sake someone fix Earthshaker so it works on slopes!

Overall, Warriors are definitely in a better state than other classes. Friday’s reveal (despite how…‘casual’ it might have been) actually showed a line of changes that could be considered nerfs to the condition meta and buffs towards other builds. (The 10% damage loss from Crit % is acceptable if and only if they continue to make it harder for conditions to land and make some easily spammed conditions easier to remove either through waiting out their duration or simply cleansing.)

For instance, Pin Down got a huge nerf, Engi Poison Nade and Thief Choking Gas got hit, Deceptive Evasion got hit, Dhuumfire rework…

Just from what they stated in the livestream already conditions were hit pretty hard compared to power builds. …Actually, D/D Eles will shine even harder now with their abilities being more evasive, sustained and supporting.

I think I have probably deviated from the point a bit at this time, but overall the problem is not necessarily warriors, but the battlefield that is unfair to everyone else. So rather than make warriors into the previous husks that they were in PvP much like everyone else, wouldn’t it be better if other professions had more capabilities to handle conditions, or at least more viable builds in PvP?

…Time for my ZvZ talk.

Now that I have suggested some balancing suggestions for conditions in anything but a ZvZ environment…what about a ZvZ environment? One can assume that with my changes in place, conditions are still going to be ripped off faster than children opening their christmas presents eager to see if they got a new game or toy. There is a reason why people are doing hammer trains (Again, an issue with crit damage too easy to get and how it is calculated… I think I talked about this before in a different thread.) regardless of how good or bad they are.

Frankly, in the overall scheme of things there are way too many AoE cleanses and actually not enough self-cleansing in general. Soldier’s Runes are a problem in that regard…

And… I do not know how to fix this. After seeing a steady stream of group-AoE cleanses (I think Mesmer was the last profession to get a buff in that catagory), Arenanet might be taking a balancing stance to encourage AoE cleansing. If that is the case, than damaging conditions won’t see strength in ZvZ at all, without enough spamming. Utility and Movement conditions seem like the only conditions that can actually stick and do their effect, but damaging conditions might not see the light of day.

If and only if AoE cleansing were nerfed with self-cleansing being buffed would conditions have a considerable impact in ZvZ. That’s probably not going to happen though.

I also admit there is a slight issue with my solution. Right now there is some balance in Trait trees in that there are two kinds of stats to each tree. Condition Resistance would make any given tree unbalanced and a must-have.

Some potential inquiries you might have:

“But don’t we have something called Condition Duration Reduction? Isn’t that the same?”

Not quite, and actually there is not a stat in the trait-lines that gives that unique attribute. Not to mention it is counter-balanced against a trait stat that is in the line called condition duration increase, isn’t that surprising? If there is any wonder why conditions are doing so well it might be because of that issue. This also might be a reason why A-Net has been giving out buffs to Zerker Stance and Diamond Skin. Interesting thought experiment.

“What if you have Vitality, Toughness and Condition Resistance, that’s way too bunker for anyone to take out, points would be impossible to take in regards to PvP!”

One: There is no healing power in that stat-allocation. That means they are not sustained enough, condition resistance makes it harder for conditions to hit hard, but they will still go through. Conditions critting means that person is going down faster, and lastly that person is never going to kill you.

Two: If you thought no-damage bunkers were not hurting before, try having no power or condition damage at all. These kinds of bunkers would never get focused and thus would end up in a specific role of holding a point and supporting only. Not to mention that stat allocation might not make it live if A-Net actually likes my proposal.

Congrats! You made it or skimmed! Horrah! Please feel free to give feedback, I will try to get back to this later after some food.

(Note: This is where I start blending my argument across the board)

So let’s make Condition damage come in two varities. Raw Condition versus Condition Criticals.

Condition Crit builds are my band-aid solution to PvE. The problem is that it still does not address the cap at high amounts of condition-based builds out there since there can only be so many stacks on an enemy.

…Wait! Idea just now. What if after full-stacks of condition damage are achieved on a PvE mob, the next condition applied of the same type does full damage according to what it would do during the duration? That might take a bit to code though, and seems complicated. Not a bad idea though since condition-based classes do not have a lot of damage from their base-line abilities unlike power-builds, I reckon it might equal out somewhere.

Back to topic, and still relevant Conditions being able to crit would be a solution countering ‘Condition Resistance’ in some manner yet create a dilemma in that the person taking precision to do so loses another stat they could be taking. If you go condition damage and precision in PvP, you are very low on options for a defensive stat and have a pretty strong weakness.

Whereas Raw condition damage builds do fare well like before offensively and defensively, doing the same damage they are doing now. But wait, what’s this this guardian is taking less damage per tick by a considerable amount, he’s outsustaining my damage! That guardian in particular took some Condition Resistance, a new stat to pop down in the pool! He has given up an offensive stat for another defensive one! (Depending on what A-Net might decide for stat allocation in PvP for Condition Resistance, the guardian might be full bunker or have no vitality or power or something.)

Regardless, the condition meta in PvP suddenly has a soft counter in a stat, not necessarily encouraging all condition classes to have crit % but leaving that option open. Though those truly in love with condition damage might like the higher-ticks that critically hitting with conditions offers.

Let me just say this: I am not going to throw out numbers like ‘How much Condition Resistance would mitigate at each value’, that is way too much work for me, I am presently an overview of what could be a solution. Condition criticals I am stuck between being calculated per tick or maybe the type of condition crits all together or none at all. I think the former might be best for the condition-wielder.

….Going to let that absorb for a bit. Alright time’s up, explanation time.

(Note: The following arguments here are for PvP, will likely reference PvE and WvW soon.)

First and foremost, there is currently no source of dealing with conditions without cleansing them. Some builds actually specialize towards cleansing conditions, but unforgivingly give up other perks that make them really awful.

Actually, not going to present the argument like that, let’s try this. Everyone loves the argument that builds play a game of paper, rock, scissors assuming equal skill on both players (Hardly ever happens but let’s roll with it.) Build A beats B but loses to C. Build B beats C but loses to A, and so forth. Thing is, the game is more like paper rock scissors knife paper-clip hair-comb….alright whatever you get my point.

How builds SHOULD work is that they should have a nice amount of positives with an equilivalent amount of negatives, they can have an impressive advantage against a certain kind of damage, but have an pretty bad time against another kind of damage. You specialize into power and bunker, outlasting other power builds? You might have less condition cleanse than the rest, you get owned by raw condition damage.

However, there are some builds that catagorically have way too many advantages with very few flaws, very few specialized builds that will beat them one to one, or even two to one. I think you know the builds I refer to, and I know for a fact they are already being talked about. (Although it should be worth noting Minion Necro tends to have his minions or himself get melted in large-scale fighting. Oh I miss the days where you couldn’t tab-target the necro…)

With the above said, the entire Condition meta can be considered part of that group. Condition is greater than power in many a PvP environment, and actually holds some decency in large-scale fighting (Freeze nade engis op, personal opinion, probably not true but man I hate chill with a passion).

But it would not be fair if there was just a blantant nerf to condition across the board, power builds really are not that far behind in viability, and although I would love to discuss the broken stat that is crit-damage versus toughness that is for another time.

Hello Profession Balancing! I am here to talk about the condition meta, its design issues, potential solutions, issues with said solutions, etc. Please note that if I go into any hard-issue I tend to elaborate a lot, meaning this is a length read. If you want a TL;DR, just look for italicized points in the thread or some bold in paragraphs, they might have an interesting prospect.

Anyways, away we go!

So I imagine that people are aware of the several issues that come with Conditions in GW2. As a reminder here is a small general list:

The Cap in PvE: Conditions hit a cap against single mobs, making professions running in PvE groups using said conditions hit a cap in their damage early and throughout the fight. Power builds are the powerful ones.

Their Power in PvP: Condition damage is an easy stat to gear towards in PvP, especially classes that can go bunker as well and outlast many foes through a mix of their tankiness and mitigation. Mitigation is any amount of tools you have that can make the enemy do no damage to you, Stealth is the most situational mitigation since they can still damage you in stealth but ‘have to keep swinging’.

Incredible power in WvW solo, roam and small-scale groups: The previous notion carries over to WvW even more so where stats can be more freely picked. Up until the enemy force can actually start mass-cleansing the conditions you rotated your bar for conditions tick for a nice bit while you use every defensive tool in your kit to make sure you can avoid damage and wait for cooldowns, or continue to pressure with more of a certain bleed (Yes I am criticizing warrior bleed pressure, its nice that we have a condition build for once, but it has its own broken playstyle that is similar to what I see in other professions.)

So now that I listed some of the issues we are aware of with conditions, let’s get down to business.

How do we fix these issues? How can we bring Conditions in line with other builds without making them obsolete? There are already some methods to deal with conditions what changes could be made that won’t cause future problems?

…Well if you looked at the thread title, you might have an idea of what I am getting at. However I am not simply going to ask for a new type of stat, I am also going to try providing a solution to deal with conditions universally.

Here are the three concurrent changes I would make:

• Create a stat like toughness that mitigates condition damage.
• Conditions can crit, create new balancing traits that encourage critting with conditions.
• Nerf AoE condition cleansing and further self-condition cleanse with skillful play.

kyubi.3620:

by definition warrior are NOT supose to be the healing beast they are now. Warrior is a damage based unit specialised around taking out opponent with devastating damage nuke before they themselves get killed. Warrior by default shouldnt be able to overheal damage but rather tank it via its huge pool of health the same way necromancer does wich is to say

1. big health
2. very little healing
3. heavy damage

Healing signet contradict those principe quite a lot.

Disagree intensely.

A warrior is sturdy and strong, where they can vary between becoming more sturdy and able to withstand high pressure and stand tall. Or they can turn very savage as you say, empower themselves (and maybe allies) to destroy their opponents.

Every profession should have varience in their builds, Healing Signet does have problems from a balancing standpoint, but simply nerfing it without offering an alternative heal in case warriors desire to actually use their healing skill for once will make them the most mediocre class.

Warriors are supposed to be strong without the need of magical buffs like protection or Aegis, they are the physical strength kings of any game.

Instead of just calling for Healing Signet nerfs, why make Surge, Mending and Defiant Stance more appealing as well? They are still in a bad state.

Talked about this specific issue already in the warrior forums but…meh whatever.

The issue is not just Healing Signet, it’s the only viable heal we have that matches our health pool.

Healing Surge is still a bit low even at stage three heal. I believe after conversing on the other thread having the burst heal go up an additional 10% across the board flat makes it quite viable as a burst heal to replace the sustain heal that would be healing signet if it were nerfed to 315 / second.

At that same time, the Healing Surge effect is the only heal in the game that PUNISHES for playing the normal warrior build. Warrior Burst is one of the main mechanics behind every build, and having our heal impacted negatively every time we do so is just bad design. Healing Surge should synergize with and not conflict with the profession. Ergo I promoted a prospect of removing that effect all together and making it just like Signet of Rage’s passive in combat, generating adrenaline so that if you do decide to use the buffed Healing Surge you lose that passive for thirty seconds. Ergo a ‘Trade-off’ instead of a punishment.

Mending is outclassed by recent condition defense buffs to the Warrior traits and utilities (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire, New Berserker Stance). Its heal is also low as well, yet I don’t envision it as a burst heal like Healing Surge. I proposed in that previous thread to make Mending an ‘in-between’ burst heal and sustained heal with a nice condition immunity. Plainly speaking (THE NUMBERS CAN CHANGE, just approximations.) Mending flat heals 6k, applies regeneration for 8 seconds (like another 2k life over that) and provides four seconds condition immunity to POISON ONLY. “Why poison?” Why not? Makes the heal unique, a literal band-aid heal and unlike the other two heals, provides protection against the healing counter.

Defiant Stance…is really obvious. I don’t know how to deal with it yet.

For confirmation, I am not calling for just a nerf to Healing Signet, I am calling for a buff to Warrior Healing in General.

No matter what weapons or traits we have, if the Healing Signet is the only healing we have then every single warrior build has a blantant weakness to poison and high condition ticks OR burst (pending on what toughness you run). Even with Cleansing Ire and our condition immunities or reductions Poison will always be a problem with every build, any viable build we warriors run.

Overall the Warrior profession would be in a BETTER state if they had more access to other heals so they are not universally countered.

Warlord.9074:

No you just got done telling us how all of the other warrior heal skills are bad. Then you propose to nerf the only good one we have, then gave us a bunch of ideas on how to fix the others. Which sounds like just giving the complainers what they want but then making another healing skill something to complain about. Plus the changes that you provided would not give warrior enough sustain. Then you would nerf there sustain. So it sounds just like you just don’t want warriors to have sustain.

Warrior is in a good spot right now, they are not the best class anymore and anyone with the right build can beat a warrior. The ones complaining are new players or less skillful and knowledgeable players. Give it a rest already, there are way worst things in this game involving balance than healing sig, and some of them are newly introduced.

There is nothing balanced about having only one of the few healing skills viable in the majority of warrior builds.

It is true that right now Warriors are in a good spot, but the fact remains that Warriors do not have burst healing if every single build is running healing signet while the other healing skills are lackluster. Hence my ‘Strong but broken’ accusation.

Having Healing Signet down to 315 / second puts it right at the line the sustain for warriors should be, whereas every other heal needs a huge buff to be put in line with the new healing signet. That way, there will not be one set way to beat the warrior sustain that is healing signet if warriors are running a stronger Healing Surge, or even a reworked Mending. If people complain about the new incarnations of the heals then they are really, truly misinformed about what can counter them.

As of right now it is not just bad players but good players that see Healing Signet as slightly too strong. I would rather have more options for healing to help the Warrior profession as a whole than keep the broken profession weak against the condition meta as is.

Mightymealworm.8409:

A higher health pool is not a handicap. Ever. Well, unless you run scholars runes.

( On a side note, I had typed a fairly lengthy response to this, but somehow I mistyped and deleted it all. Such misfortune… anyways if my current response here is quick my apologies. )

A higher health pool is indeed a perk, I did not mean to insinuate it was a handicap.

My issue is that people are trying to overvalue its worth, Warriors have already had a trade-off with the higher health pool in that they do not have an active way of getting Protection without runes. Protection is by far the strongest boon in game, as it does not lose effectiveness like Toughness, and the main reason why Bunker Engineers and Bunker Guardians are so effective at taking a lot of heat without having the ‘health pool’ that warriors do.

With that said, why then should warriors also have their health pools apply a defect to their other capabilities? If a warrior health pool were a true benefit, then the sustain must reflect that or else the health pool becomes a worse ‘Death Shroud’. …Though I wonder if that is debatable, but thinking back to previous warrior sustain before the changes to their healing I think the case is there that without an adequate scale to the warrior health pool in terms of sustain, the warrior health pool becomes obsolete.

So with that said, Healing Signet definitely alleviated that issue, but it went a bit too far. 315 / sec would be fair I believe…

Shifting the conversation, with around a 10% buff to Healing Surge and the change to its effect, the Stage 3 Heal would be around 10.5k at the very least. That’s around 350 healing per second under the right conditions, which includes no poison or chill, maxed adrenaline without using the Burst skill first to lose the adrenaline and uninterrupted. Extremely fair considering its an active skill that requires skill much like other professions in the game.

Mending is a tough one, my suggestion would open doors for builds that might not care for Adrenaline being high or low…so certain traits in the Warrior tree that grant bonuses under high adrenaline might open up. However removing all harmful conditions is a pretty good alternative…

Defiant Stance is…well, I don’t really know what it needs, it is stupidly specialized. I wonder if a block/stance build would work with it.

Tim.6450:

First of all thank you for insulting my build (I run a healing shout warrior in PVE). Well the second point is that again the necromancer is in the same position unless you count minion builds or well build. The so feared dhuumfire/fear build (which by the way is not very popular in the necromancer community) has no extra healing besides consume conditions, and necromancers are supposed to be an attrition class. Now about the healing signet I think ~315 h/s is sufficient may be even a bit higher. I have to aggree though lower and it’s just not worth it.

Let me just say I don’t mean anything too harsh about shout warriors, in fact I am all for a change in PvE meta so that support and tankiness are evaluated more highly than the ‘Go Berserker or go home’ that dungeon runners these days are going for. Shout Warriors have a specific role in support, but in a SPvP or WvW setting due to their investment in Tactics they might not be capable of getting all the defensive or offensive perks that really mesh them out. I honestly do not care at all about having one or two people in my PvE parties going support, and Shout Support is a good one.

Tim.6450:

You do realise that you just outperformed the guardian’s shelter in that example but class compairison aside. In your example your defiant stance would be the equal of a flat ~8000 heal . Not too bad but like I said see group fights. Now for most aoe users have to endure longer cooldowns, scaling issues, … so I think the price for aoe is already paid.
About that 5v1 issue I may have exagerated but in 2v1 and 3v1 it still scales well.

Indeed, though there is something that needs to be considered throughout all of this, and it goes across all professions and that is, I suppose I should say Mitigation.

In WoW Mitigation referred to how strong certain defensive stats were on your character if you wanted to ‘tank’ an encounter. Higher armor means every hit against you was reduced, high block chance means you might block a blow here and there and take impressively reduced damage, and high dodge means you avoid the attack out-right. Any given tank’s mitigation was measured by a combination of these three stats, and the vertical scaling made the stats impressive for veteran geared tanks.

In GW2, Mitigation is similar in that we have blocks, dodges, protection, condition immunity, hard damage immunities, and so forth. There are a lot of things that factor into how well any given build will succeed, even with the right healing utility.

Defiant Stance is special in that it is both a healing and mitigation tool, which puts it into a special spot. A-Net likely wanted Defiant Stance to be mingled with Stance Builds that also use mitigation (Berserker Stance, Endure Pain) while at the same time, paying off the warrior nicely if he uses it at a right time.

Now, in my example, I posted that Defiant Stance does get stronger in a fight where a warrior is outnumbered. That would be fine, if a Warrior could reliably be capable of dealing with more than one person at a time easily. But, unfortunately there are skilled players running rampant everywhere, and practically all of them will not lose a fight outnumbering a single warrior running stances instead of sustain or utilities.

Warriors might have a huge benefit in a bigger health pool than other classes, but in the scheme of overall damage ranging from sustained, or burst or potent conditions, that health pool is just an additional second or two of standing up before falling down. Warrior cooldowns for mitigation are extremely long, and the best warriors will find even if they ran every single mitigation that there is a sufficient period where their mitigation is down for their 23-26k life to nothing.

And don’t get me started on Toughness, I would rather have 2k armor with reliable Protection than 2.8k armor, the curve on that stat is just wrong.

…Hmm, seemed to have ranted a bit, back to the guardian example, Guardians are the class you go to for Damage Mitigation, between their Virtues, utilities and weapon sets the guardian can keep his blocks, blinds and even punish foes for attacking him with retailiation. To that end, Shelter is a 2 second block on a 30 second CD that heals for its intended amount, whereas Defiant Stance is a 3 second stance on a 35 second CD, where its healing is NOT guarenteed. Guardian Shelter is better since it’s heal compared to the Guardian health pool is rather intense, versus the Warrior one which more than 50% of the time won’t fool the opponent.

Shelter is a perfect (maybe even slightly strong) guardian heal.

Defiant Stance needs to be changed mechanically.

Rennoko.5731:

- Snip -

Had to do a double-take on DS healing to get the gist. Fair enough.

Let’s reflect back to Healing Signet’s sustain though, aside from that and Adrenal Health which is a smaller heal per three seconds of at most 360 (or 120 every second with full adrenaline), that is it for warrior healing. There are no normal utilities that will heal the warrior unless specifically traited for, so Shouts in Tactics (which is just wrong in anything but a WvW environment, large scale fights).

Warrior Regeneration buffs come from Dogged March procs or Healing banners, for a health pool as large as ours we have much fewer tools than say a Guardian, Thief, and even Necromancer to heal ourselves with. Looking at the new Guardian heal which gives healing back for a % of the damage dealt I envy them. We can’t leech life, we just provide damage and CC.

Reflecting back to pre-buff Healing Signet, the healing was around (can’t find a valid source on the actual number, just some old estimates with HP) 200 / sec. Absolute trash skill, we get the sustain doubled and it became viable, but still heavily influenced by poison like many over-time healing capabilities are.

I absolutely cannot accept a healing signet nerf that would bring it under 315 per second. I also must mention that there are some builds that are extremely specilized in a certain area, and it is perfectly acceptable to have a warrior run healing power and across all his sacrificed utilities for sustainability, reach 1000+ per second total (I think you know what I refer to). At that stage though it is not Signet that is broken but other things as well.

Tim.6450:

- Snip -

Defiant Stance is not in the same catagory as normal utilities, as you sacrifice any other potential healing utility for it. It’s not ‘You don’t take damage’ it’s ‘I need to take enough damage to heal.’ You use it when focused hard, and that’s the difficult part.

For your example, I will give you a more realistic scenario. If an enemy had an auto-attack dps of 1000, for the first second they will hit me under the effects of Defiant Stance, so 1000 + 1853, and pending on whether their next auto-attack did an effect, maybe the burning would tick me for a couple hundred every second so let’s make it simple and say under the 3 seconds (or 3.75 seconds with Sure-Footed) I get a nice flat 4k heal, and within that second of hitting me they see green numbers. The veteran player is aware of Defiant stance, they stop attacking. In a 1v1, that means I only heal for 4k life while doing maybe a few more auto-attacks or abilities in retailiation. For 30 seconds after the Defiant Stance wears off, I have no sustained healing, nothing.

In the wholesome scenario where it is a 1v2, I might get attacked by another person, maybe less experienced, maybe they stopped prematurely while waiting on CDs. They can see their conditions on me heal myself though, which means they shift to kiting before doing anything else. More wasted healing gone, the heal is an entirely situational one more so than any other heal in the game.

More often than not, it will be a disadvantage since it is painfully obvious to see healing numbers on the screen compared to the usual damage numbers, and although you might think warriors should not have tricks up their sleeves, their very nature is to outlast and beat down enemies through raw power, enduring and relishing in battle. Defiant Stance is a tricky heal, a unique heal special to the Warrior Profession that I would love to see be used far more than now.

Also even if the warrior can get an astounding amount of healing and life from being 5v1ed, at the end of those few seconds they are just going to get bursted down to nothing regardless, no profession should be able to 1v5, that’s an unfair comparison to try to promote a false benefit of Defiant Stance.

As for AoE users, they should be aware of the risks of AoEing a group, regardless of whether there are Defiant Warriors among those AoEed. They are still doing damage to everyone else, it’s a fair trade-off.

Tim.6450:

You do realize that this trait is still too strong even at that level? 350 h/s is still higher then a traited blood fiend (which is 317 h/s) and the 5k heal outperforms the popping of a blood fiend as well. On top of that risks the necromancer to lose his blood fiend which healing signet doesn’t . Also the blood fiend’s passive healing doesn’t scale with healing power.

Yet the advantages are that Blood fiend applies additional damage while the Necromancer Profession carries the unique mechanic of Death Shroud to deny its actual health pool from taking any more pressure.

The problem with your scenario is that the Necromancer already has a lot of synergy with many of its healing utilities, Consume Conditions is a strong cure-all conditions that gets stronger with each condition on the necromancer, where said necromancer’s own utilities can apply conditions to itself…

Necromancers also get minions that can intercept projectiles, have their own conditions or mechanics that complement said minions and so forth. Not to mention the health pool of a necromancer is lower than that of a Warrior’s…

Which makes these healing comparisons hard, and why a 350 / sec is a perfectly valid form of sustained healing for the warrior. With concern to the necromancer power level, there is likely an overwhelming issue with giving Blood Fiend a HP ratio when you combine all the potential dangers…Minion necros are a strong offender of this.

Tim.6450:

I take it still removes three conditions? I like this idea honestly I also suggest that instead removing three conditions, it removes all damaging conditions (burning, posion, bleeding, confusion, vulnerability and torment).

I thought about that, but my interpretation had no condition cleanse whatsoever, only a strong burst heal with regeneration and a temporary poison immunity. Though I can see a Mending remove damaging conditions and warrior builds not relying so much on Cleansing Ire anymore.

Tim.6450:

You do realize you already have a passive adrenaline gain called signet of rage? Also a 25% healing boost could be in order is around 409 h/s at full adrenaline and may be a bit much so I suggest a 10% boost (360 h/s) .

Yes I know.

Healing Surge would stack according, granting 2 ticks of adrenaline every three seconds while in combat (works the same way as Signet of Rage). The difference lies in their actives and CDs.

Also yes the intent of Healing Surge was to be put in line with Healing Signet’s Passive healing over the same duration. Regardless it needs a decent buff.

Tim.6450:

I haven’t seen defiant stance in action so I won’t say much about it but I think it won’t make much difference.

It is more of an interface issue than anything else. If you were facing a warrior with defiant stance, what would happen over the course of the fight is that the warrior, if he were using it, would take a quarter second to channel it before a slight blue glow (very very hard to see) appears on their body much like how Endure Pain looks, except more subtle. Any and all damage you are currently doing to the warrior shows up as GREEN numbers instead of red, extremely visible and apparent.

Which is the problem, it’s so obvious no warrior will be able to really gain an advantage with Defiant Stance unless they time it perfectly and abuse the opposing player’s delay in reflexes, so a warrior could time his stance right at the start of a thief basilisk burst combo, ignore and heal all that damage. But after that, the remaining time Defiant Stance is up most enemies just stop attacking, you might get only a third of the stance actually under fire while the remaining seconds of it grant you nothing.

What I suggest is making you see zeros, so that a less-experienced player might assume its Endure Pain, not give a quick glance to the warrior buffs overhead to look, and continue healing the warrior despite being wrong. It returns the advantage to the warrior instead of the attacker, which is fine considering its a 35 second CD heal.

Warriors don’t have many ‘tricks’ like other professions, having Defiant Stance being a viable one would be nice.

Travis the Terrible.4739:

I actually like your ideas. But if they were to buff the healing on surge again by 25% across the board it would make you heal for almost 3/4 of your entire health (assuming no poison).

I’m going to assume you don’t know that Healing Surge has a healing power modifier attached to each level.

.9 at 0 adren
1 at 1 bar
1.25 at 2 bars
1.5 at 3 bars

Now with this is in mind buffing surges healing prowess isn’t the way to go tbh. I do like your idea for it giving a pulsing adrenaline every few seconds but giving it an additional 25% across the board isn’t the right way to give it that extra umphh.

As for a whole you’ve given great reasoning to this. As someone who has played warrior since launch and onward I actually agree with you almost entirely across the board. +1 sir. Maybe this should be forwarded to the guys in the balance department at ANet.

I don’t know the specific numbers, I merely wanted to convey a strong ‘ideal’ for each of the healing utilities.

Healing Surge’s HP modifier honestly could be reduced severely to compensate, with the many warrior builds that could benefit from running a burst heal without healing power being needed, certainly it might be a bit too much for the healing power to remain unchecked.

However…

If a warrior ran healing surge with a plentiful amount of healing power, I don’t think it would be so unbalanced for the surge to heal the warrior a tremondous amount for their investment.

The numbers can be tweaked, but I still want Healing Surge to be the prime Burst Heal for warriors.

Here is my proposal:

Healing Signet: Reduce the healing per second by maybe 35-50 healing per second gone. Raise the flat active healing a bit more, 3.5-4k healing on the active won’t cut it for the channel, make it a solid 5k and leave it at that. So around 350 / sec and a strong 5k heal active.

- Healing Signet should be the sustain warrior’s dream. No other heal should compare to the per-second heal, yet if a warrior realizes he is getting bursted or poisoned at least he can pop the active for a bit more time…but just a bit. Right now the ~400 healing base-line is slightly too high.

Mending: Flat Heal is fine, but the condition cleanse needs to be reworked. My ideas for this are:

- Mending heals for 6k, provides regeneration for about 5-8 seconds and immunity to poison for half the regeneration time. Why? Literally make Mending a means to making a condition resistent build with some sustain, but not nearly as good as the per second sustain of Healing Signet. If this proves too strong, make the channel time for mending a bit longer so it can be interrupted, we can all think of Mending as the Warrior way of ‘band-aiding’ one’s self. The poison immunity is unique to this healing utility and paves the way for this ‘in-between burst and sustained healing’ utility to shine.

Healing Surge: Remove the kitten adrenaline refill instantly all together. Make it passively raise your adrenaline every three seconds, and increase the burst healing across all levels by a solid 25%.

- This is your healing ability if you want a steady stream of Adrenaline, and its burst heal is now actually in line with other professions. Maybe heals 40-55-70% life at the different stages instead of its pitiful state now. However, once used you lose the steady adrenaline coming in, which could be good or bad for the warrior. Best part, it is a trade-off now instead of a punishment.

Defiant Stance: NO number changes. Instead, enemy sees only ‘0s’ for all his damage, from all sources. The Warrior Health Pool is shown rising though since the warrior can see the healing on himself, and the Defiant Stance buff is seen as well.

- What this does is make the opponent fighting the warrior actually think and start looking at the warrior’s buffs. “Why are my AAs doing no damage, is it Endure Pain or Defiant Stance?” Condition-based classes would have a slightly less time figuring out the defiant stance if they see their conditions tick for 0, which right now would indicate something is really wrong. However, both instances the smart opponent would have to track the target’s buffs moreso, and helps the healing utility stand on its own. Defiant Stance is now actually interesting to play against, and could potentially be viable in a few unheard-of builds.

These changes would be a superb way to deal with the healing state of the warrior. However this is purely in the healing aspect, and does not factor in how damaging the warrior is. That is a discussion for a different thread…

I think you should realize the problems with that.

Before the lovely batch of healing buffs, Warriors were in a rather pitiful state, the lack of sustain made us a low-tier PvP class akin to the current lackluster professions of today…I won’t say any names but I know you are out there, and I feel for you.

The Warrior right now is in a broken state, strong but broken. Our other healing alternatives are not even average with the current average health pool across all common warrior builds, and are counter-intuitive to the way the warrior plays and its utilities.

I could start with Healing Surge, a heal based around a stronger heal with each adrenaline bar you have, and also fully refills the adrenaline if it is not full. Sounds good on paper, extremely terrible for the warrior in play. Other healing utilities on other professions provide a trade-off if you want to activate it, or have some second feature when active. Why, then does Healing Surge actually PUNISH you for activating the huge gimmick of the profession (Warrior Burst) by reducing the healing you gain from activating it? Not to mention its extremely high cooldown in which it cannot really be popped more than once in any given fight, which is odd since it is supposed to be stronger the next time it is popped yet it is given a 30 second CD…

Let’s have a look at Mending then, every twenty seconds you can do a 5k heal that removes three conditions. It sounds simple, but with the recent changes to the warrior traits (Dogged March, Cleansing Ire) on top of warrior utility changes (Berserker Stance gives condition duration immunity) the state of warrior condition cleansing without tapping into the healing utility is already pretty high. That alone reduces the effectiveness of using Mending in professional play.

The newest Heal, Defiant Stance, actually had some thought put into it. It is extremely difficult to pull off well without prior knowledge of the opponent’s build and damage, however it opened the doorway for warrior builds specilized in stances, Sure-Footed can actually be looked at! But, the only issue I have is that the enemy is given a huge deal of information such as HEALING numbers on their screen when they are hitting a warrior with it. Sadly, this mechanic would be much better if it were harder but not impossible for the opponent to watch the warrior’s buffs.

So, now that I have listed the problem with the other utilities, what can we do about it?

ColinJohanson.2394:

Zone.1275:

ColinJohanson.2394:

What sort of systems of horizontal progression unlocking would you like to see that’d accompany a system like extended class progression?

I think special dynamic events could be one way. Currently some dynamic events open up special vendors to buy little knick knacks. For example, if in Brisban Wildlands there was a special dynamic event chain where you help the Skritt King in some way and after the events are over you can buy a new skill from him with skill points.

So a question for this, how would we message well to newer players how a system like this would work? One of the challenges of events is simply: they may not be running when you’re in an area. Is it ok to make people stand around waiting for an event to happen so they can get a specific thing from that event? How would they know what to do if the event wasn’t currently active, what form of messaging could help them understand the state of the world – while still being immersive and not requiring them to use a 3rd party app to progress?

Hmm…

Currently in game we have a variety of World Event notifications in various zones. These show progress, whether it be success or failure and the consequences (Tequatl is a nice example, peppers his area of the zone with undead and mines if failed, success makes the zone more friendly.) Actually, while Tequatl is up regardless of where-ever you are in the zone you can see the event icons, but more on that later.

Here is what I think would be fair:

- For rewards specific for difficult content like defeating Tequatl, there are already specific rewards from his chests, but we can also have a vendor spawn at his area with rewards unique to the zone, but only for a limited time after his defeat and items unique to the vendor only. Obviously we want people to try to kill Tequatl for his weapons and mini, but perhaps have the vendor sell the other minis, some named exotics, karma equipment, etc. In fact it would be a great way to introduce some equipment or items players have been really craving, but nothing that might break the Trading Post…

- How would people know? I have an idea, but I can’t quite figure out the pros/cons of the suggestion yet. How about adding a ‘Event Board’ physically in each of the main cities? This may take a bit to program, and could even be as simple as those ‘scout’ NPCs you run into as you explore Tyria. How it works is that when you interact with this quest board, a list of ACTIVE dynamic world events is shown perhaps in a dialogue box, maybe one says ‘Trouble in the Blazeridge’. Clicking on that option pulls up the map like when you did the scout interaction, moves your look over to Blazeridge and a small synopsis shows up, saying ‘We got reports of increased Branded activity in Blazeridge, the Vigil requests assistance…’ followed up by the typical circles that might just show the current events there.

The above example does two things, first, with Lion’s Arch being a primary city hub many people would flock to the board to keep tabs on active quests, while new players would show interest as well, walk over, KNOW where the event ‘sort of’ is, and not have to go to third party maps to find out the status on events. Two, it can promote activity in these events since there are a vast number of people who might not track using 3rd party, and if something comes up the map chat might flood with ‘Shatterer is coming up soon! Let’s roll!’

Of course, what happens if you are already in a zone when a world event pops?

I think in that instance we can have subtle changes in the environment…either emotes, sounds, or freshly spawned yelling npcs crying for help! For example, I am busy in Harathi Hinterlands, far away from the Centaur wars when, perhaps in a unique yellow font appearing in the middle of my screen (See what I did there) it says ‘The air seems to have changed…the flames of war have started’ or perhaps have the sounds of wardrums beating in the background, and follow all of this with the beginning of the wars event shown in red icons on your minimap.

Boom, you being in the zone hear a unique event notification for something big, it shows up on your map. Newer players might be very interested to see what is up, while veteran players can instantly recognize it without having to look it up through a website or by spams in map chat.

Upon further reflection, the rewards idea I had might pale in comparison to what I came up with in dealing with immersion and event notification. I would like to see something of an event board and special event effects to come through so I don’t end up looking at a site online for events to appear in real-time, I can just do it in game through LA or even be in the zone when something happens.

Need more Gas Mask.

Kicast.1459:

Should I understand that the trait should not do what it is supposed to do but should work another way ?
What would it be ?
Confusion first and then other condi depending on the damage they make ?
…no this would not be ideal if you only have one stack of confusion….let’s say Confusion if stack of confusion would do more damage than another condi and then conditions depending of the damage they make !!

Yes that will be nice and would give to warriors a little chance to anihilate quicker condi builds they are supposed to be weak against.

More power to warrior …they deserve it !!!

I won’t dispute that this would be a buff to warriors against condition builds that utilize confusion.

At the same time, Quick Breathing is mechanically unbalanced due to this. Quick Breathing is supposed to remove the strongest damage condition on you, but it overlooks Confusion completely and will not remove it unless it is the absolute last condition to be removed over anything else.

I would not mind that if this breaks Warriors moreso than their current condition cleanse that there is some sort of compensation in terms of nerfs like warhorn CDs rising slightly.

Still, its a problem despite what you think the current state of the warrior is.

Arganthium.5638:

Sykper.6583:

So I heard poison is a thing…

Yes, it’s easy for me to apply perma-poison on the class with the best condi clear, and especially with my mesmer and my guardian’s amazing poisoning potential.

Hmm.

Really surprised you are having problems with warriors as a Mesmer, and I think you completely forgot how strong Guardians are at cleansing conditions as well. Don’t get me wrong, Warriors have a lot of condition clear if they are built towards it. But more often than not they have to rely on the likes of Cleansing Ire to deal with the multitude of conditions that frankly make Healing Signet look like child’s play.

I think the biggest issue with all these complaints is that the warrior class in of itself is probably the easiest class to pick up and get decent at. Things like ss/lb condition warriors have really three active skills they want to track to land with, while having a lot of benefits of tankiness and constant condition cleanse from their burst skills always proccing.

But here’s the thing, the game sadly is not balanced for 1v1s. It’s a game of rock paper scissors with 8 different moves. Some balance out evenly, some don’t. The condition warrior pretty much gets stomped by every necro and their mother.

…Also if you as a mesmer are not at least stale-mating a warrior one to one…you need to reflect on your build or something. Mesmers are the single profession that makes any warrior cringe since everything about what a warrior can do against them, acts in their disfavor. You could outlast any bad build warrior.

kiwituatara.6053:

Sykper.6583:

Decided to link these two lovely things with you guys since you may or may not be aware on the subject.

Word of mouth and some testing have provided me information that Quick Breathing will mechanically remove/convert the most damaging condition on you to a boon. This damaging condition has to be actively ticking you down moreso than the others, so a strong double-digit bleed will get cleansed over a poison. Lovely on paper, makes sense right? Also the direct warhorn skill ‘Charge’ will alleviate the movement conditions before the condition conversion, as it should be.

Well…I wouldn’t make a post simply to state the benefits of Quick Breathing if I did not see an overwhelming problem of one of the more painful conditions we Warriors get struck with.

Confusion.

Confusion is not an active condition, it only hurts you when you act. Meaning its direct damage to you over time is technically none. …I think you can see what I am driving at.

If you have 20+ stacks of confusion while having a minor poison or torment on you, Quick Breathing will prioritize Confusion LAST always.

Confusion is the very last condition Quick Breathing will cleanse, even under cripple if you decide to use Call to Arms. As in, my Call to Arms decided to prioritize the couple seconds of cripple over the 10 stacks of confusion, and I took a resulting damage hit.

Go ahead and test this! Knock yourselves out with the disappointment.

Don’t worry, rune of perplexity got nerfed you won’t be seeing 20 stacks of confusion often

I think the scope is not so much as a problem with perplexity as a problem where a complete viable condition like confusion, which should be on some sort of similiar priority as bleeds, torments, and burning is actually put at the very bottom of conditions to convert.

It’s a huge weakness in the trait, a noticable one many professions with confusion innately can exploit.