Guild Wars 2

mamaral.8310:

it’s not any of them, but they seem to be alright. The map itself was not colorful and more like sepia-toned. Nevertheless, the maps linked are good enough it seems.

I think I clicked all of the links, and none of them seem to be the one you’re actually looking for. The best place for maps of Tyria would be http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_maps#Fan-made_world_maps .
And I think the one you’re looking for would be the “antique” one, correct?

Angel McCoy.1832:

This is a very interesting opinion since so many seem to feel the other way.

Just wanted to say that I agree 100% with Bellyboomer on this one. I’m being “the one single great hero and saviour of the entire world”, is just a bit too much to swallow.
Too me it doesn’t feel epic. What does feel epic, if is I was a part of that great great battle.
Just like the feeling people in the community shared when they overcame Triple Trouble or Tequila for the first time…

At the same time, I understand both sides, and I do understand that you’ll have to find a proper balance between the two.
(it is a multiplayer game though… and people should accept/love to share the glory)

I guess this would solve some of the problem, but to me it doesn’t seem very user friendly tbh. Also, it’s not only Guild events that suffers from the current server system.

Arranging community events is also a major issue. It’s as good as impossible with the current system. You would have to know someone on the server you want to join, then get them to join your party, then start clicking “join” untill you get in.
Just not very user friendly.

For me, the answer is simple. Look to gw1’s district system. Server generation worked more or less just like the current megaservers, with one exception: you could choose which server you wanted to join from a dropdown menu.
If you could implement a que system on top of such a system, you would treat most, if not all, of the current issues.

What would be even better, is if we the players could open up new districts. Now before you say that would wreck the entire server system, I am certain such a feature could be added in a smart way.
E.g. what if at the bottom of the “district list”/drop-down menu had another option “Request new district (X/Y)”. X=current players signed up for a new district. Y=players required, which could be fairly hight, e.g. about 50-70 players.
The moment enough players have requests a new district, those players will automatically be moved to a new instance of that map. Such, you would practically do the same as you propose above, but without going to difficult processes: log-out to character selection, and invite 70 people by typing each person’s name or drag-and-drop from friends list? (I really hope you realise how non-user friendly that sounds).

You’ll simply spread the word to your guild, community via Twitter, map chat, whatever: “okay guys. We’re requesting a new district now” > and BOOM! There you go.

P.S. to keep players from abusing the feature by being idle in the “que” for a new district, you could add a 10-15 minute timer from when you click “request” to when you have to click it again.

Quite recently, I created a family tree for the Tyrian Royalty with the very good help of Chieftain Alex (he did all the hard coding work, respect!).

Where WvW, PvP, game mechanics, etc. gets the occasional clarifying response from the devs, it seems that lore doesn’t get the same attention.

In this thread, I want to raise some questions (not related to any of the ongoing game events) which I personally would love to see answered by the developers. Spoilers aside, it would help to flesh-out the background lore a little bit, and solve a few doubts and misinterpretations among the hard-core lore fans…
If you have more such questions, please add them to the thread
.

The three Orrian princes:

1. When approximately did Alhazred, Ellasal and Nekandezzar live? How are they related to eachother? How are they related to King Doric and/or King Reza?

Kings of Ascalon:

1. Is it true that King Doric lived an unnatural long life: spanning from his first great achievement described in the Scriptures of Dwayna 115 BE, to his last at the Monument of King’s Watch 1 AE?
2. The events described in the Scriptures of Dwayna could easily be confused with the events described on the Monument of King’s Watch. Is it true that King Doric “prostrate himself at Her feet” twice to end wars: first time in 115 BE, and last time around 0 AE?
3. What was the name of Duke Barradin’s elder brother?
4. Wade Samuelsson says that he is a descendant from the Ascalonian kings of old. Is he a descendant from the branches of either Adelbern or Barradin, or another unknown branch?

Mazdak the Accursed and the establishment of Kryta:

1. Was he one of King Doric’s sons, or was he more distantly related?
2. Was he given his suffix before or after his death, and why?
3. Was he ever crowned King? If so: when was Kryta initially founded as a Kingdom?
4. Did he act under Doric’s command, or did he act in opposition to him?
5. According to Mazdak himself: he “conquered these lands and named them Kryta” as early as around 750 years before the Exodus. Is this true? Please clarify.

The Thorn Dynasty:

1. What was the name of Ewan and Oswald Thorn’s father?
2. What was the name of Oswald’s uncle?
3. What was the name of Oswald’s cousin; who was crowned king after his death?

The Salmaic Dynasty:

1. Was Prince Edair ever crowned king? If so: it is true that his reign was extremely short (followed by the reign of King Roderick in 1265 or earlier)?
2. Was King Roderick Baede’s eldest son?
   - If so: why wasn’t he initially named as heir to the throne (see also next question)?
   - If not: is there some major event here that we have yet not heard of, or was the transition over to Roderick considered to be a “natural” one?
3. It seems that it has been normal for the crown to be handed on by primogeniture (e.g. Ewan Thorn was the original heir, Barradin’s elder brother, Duke Barradin being the rightful heir in comparison to Adelbern). Is this true?
   - If so: why was King Baede “asked” who he wanted to name as heir to the throne, and why did he choose to name Edair instead of his eldest son?

Sorry for drifting off topic.
Back on topic: yes, it’s time for a royal wedding. And I think she should “marry off” her bloodline competition: Mr Wade Samuelson. Such destroying (or at least decreasing) the potential for the Ascalonian Kingdom to ever return :P

pepsione.6841:

Queen Jennah. She’s the last of the royal line!" which then receives the reply, "Perhaps not the last…

draxynnic.3719:

Depending on how you interpret ‘royal line’, that could be a reference to Wade Samuelson

It sure could be. Queen Jennah and Samuelson are the only decendants from King Doric’s royal bloodline that we “know” of. But considering that the royal bloodline has been around for about 1350 years now, it is highly likely that there exists more decendants (though it may not be possible to prove their heritage).

Let’s do a simple calculation: Doric and all his decendants give birth to two children each (in average), at the age of 33,33 (for simplicity). This means that the number of living individuals with royal blood would multiply by approximately 8 every 100 years (“population growth”).

0 AE = 1 Individual(s) of Royal Blood (IoRB)
100 AE = 8^1 = 8 IoRB (enough to establish Royal Families in both Orr, Ascalon, and Kryta)
200 AE = 8^2 = 6 IoRB
1325 AE = 8^13 = 549 755 813 888 IoRB

Now, bear in mind, I haven’t included the possibility of some not having any children, early deaths, and most of all: inter-marriage which will decrease the final number quite a lot. And I’m sure my calculation has a lot of other flaws (e.g. Doric would have had kids around 100 BE not 0 AE)…
But, nevertheless, it is not at all unlikely that the entire Tyrian population could have some sort of heritage claim back to King Doric.

The question really is: after over 1000 years, how do the Tyrians “prove” certain individuals more royal than others? Does blood really matter that much, or could politics and “forged” bloodlines play a stronger part than what we know of?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Titus_The_Third/Tyrian_Royalty_family_tree

No. I’ve never been a fan of leveling up stuff. Which was why I loved GW1.

I would rather see them define the current classes better.
Adding more flavour and differentiate them more from each other. Not going for the “holy trinity” exactly, but add more encouragement to play roles like (e.g.) support, interupt, healing, etc..

Which it seems that they will be doing in the upcoming feature pack.

DominationCreation.5703:

Kasmeer is so hot!

Ya think?

YES
They’re doing their own thing (with the LS). They’re sticking too the idea, but admits that there are many things they want to improve for LS s2.

Even though I think there are many places where they could go a bit more traditional and use ideas from other games – and even if LS ended up being the very reason they “lose”, I have to give them respect for trying something new.
If they didn’t stick to these ideas, it wouldn’t be GW2 anymore. And I personally have more faith in the game now, than what I had 3-4 months ago.

Only AN knows the “right” way for GW2. Who am I to question it.

I think the only way to know, is for them to respond to the thread. So for now, people should just join the cause and keep the topic in the spotlight…

Obsidian.1328:

Make sense? XD

Absolutely! My first statement was quite blunt to be hounest :P
Which initially made me go “Eeeeh… what the kitten am I going to answer to ‘this’!?” when you questioned it ;P (hence the opening line in my response)

Though: judging from my experience with them through now about 7 years, and what is written in lore, I find them remarkably similiar to us. They seem to share most of our flaws, both historical and in their daily lives.
However, there is a few particular differences I should mention (and which I really enjoy):
- It doesn’t seem that they have ever have differenciated between different skin colours (within their own race),
- Nor do they oppose to same-sex relationships.
- Nor do they wage war based upon their religion. Obviously, religion may have been in play when they first entered Tyria. But never have they had religious reasons to kill each other. And that is a huge difference compared to RL humans, where almost every war seem to have some sort of religious (or racist) argument at play!

So in thought of showing equal respect to their own kin, they seem to be entirely on a different planet.

Obsidian.1328:

Titus.4285:

My point is: Humans in Tyria are of the same nature as humans on Tellus.

This is a very important statement. Why would you think Tyrian humans are supposed to be the same as us?

Ehm… well… I just do!, ohkey!? :P
Well, most of their attributes seems to be picked off from us somehow. With many historical references, hints, or parallels to our world. The Roman Empire as we’ve discussed, King Henry Oswald’s 7 wives (see what I did there?), jealousy, romance. Well, I guess almost all races in any fantasy story are built upon a base of human attributes and history.

In short: I’m just saying that they seem (from lore and what we see in-game) to have most of the same “flaws” that we have. And I don’t think I’ve seen anything that implies that they’re different in any way (except for magic and all that)…

Well, this is getting interesting!
Many great points you have here!

Obsidian.1328:

Take what you quoted up there, that the Charr are merely freedom fighters. That what they are doing is right. Well that’s all well and good, but that flies in the face of how they portray similar patriotic actions of Ascalonians.

I agree.
As I said, I don’t want to take sides. But if I had to: I’d go with the Charr. Still, I consider both races more or less “equal to blame” – so I can understand the other opinion.
And thus: I do understand that you feel a bit of bitterness when being forced to take sides with the Charr in-game.

Seems like ArenaNet is trying to (?over-?)compensate for how they portrayed them in GW1, and is now repeating the same mistake in how they portray the Separatists.
Since Separatists are threathening the truce between men and charr, I personally support the propaganda against them. But I do agree that this choice should have been left up to each individual player!

Obsidian.1328:

Obviously, the gods wanted them to expand for whatever reason. Next time I see Balthazar at the car wash, I’ll hit him up for an answer.

Seems to me like the Gods are the most war-mongering ‘species’. After all, they did not create Tyria (the world), but brought humans and conflict to it. If we’re talking about heritage right, we would surely be loosing by a looooong stretch against the Elder Dragons.
Then again, not in any religion are Gods portrayed as anything but selfsentric power-mongering children playing with ants. So it’s not really a surprise…

Exodus 22:20

He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Obsidian.1328:

As far as the Roman analogy, over-extension was just one of many reasons, and not even the primary one. Corruption, severe economic instability, Christianity, European barbarians moving in…I would rate all those more important to Rome’s loss of control over its vast Empire.

What came first, the chicken or the egg?
- Christianity: well, I guess I’ve made my position quite clear already :P
- European barbarians “moving” in: or European barbarians being conquered in? The Empire fell apart from inside out, just as much as it ended up being too large to defend its vast front.

“100 BE: Humans drive charr out of Ascalon.”

We didn’t need to settle in Ascalon. We could have stayed in Cantha. We could have stopped in Elona or even Orr.
In less than 500 years, we spread to the south, north, west and east reaches of Tyria (the continent). Clearly – in such a short time – it was not due to population issues.

My point is: Humans in Tyria are of the same nature as humans on Tellus. And when it comes to claiming land, it can seldom (if ever) be called a story of honor, valor or morality.

I don’t give anyone a moral high ground. The Charr didn’t need to “reclaim” Ascalon. I am sure they’ve could just as well have traveled further to the east.
What upsets me is that you, and many others, are apparently trying to give the humans a moral high ground, and that is just purely ignorant.

What makes you think the Canthans’ age of discovery was any other than our own?

kimeekat.2548:

This is so wonderful, thank you for the response Roy (and all devs, really). Wow, okay, I’m unreservedly excited now. The new major trait system sounds AMAZING. <3 Praise the six, I love this franchise so much.

I agree with everything you said! …except, “Praise the Six”… now that is just kitten blasphemy!
Praise the true five! (and the devs of course)

Love it love it love it.
I was so in attracted to how we experimented and planned tactics all the time with GW1’s attribute (and skill) system. For me; the trait system in GW2 totally destroyed that aspect. Not that it is particulary expensive to reset your traits, but it just isn’t very convenient – and therefore not very fun to experiment.

With this patch, being able to swap around as I want, when I want – I can finally see myself experimenting again with different combinations! Just great!

Love it! <3

I previously said in this thread that I wanted Quaggans as playable race.
Truth be told: I find them adorable, but I think they should stay that way. Same goes for Skritt, and Kodan is just giving me a very Norn-feel. Don’t know why.

I don’t want any more playable races. Or professions for that matter.
Instead I hope ArenaNet invest all their efforts into the LS (and stuff like the upcoming feature patch).
Just go deep into producing a good LS storyline with great (less grind, less repetetive) gameplay and more lore. LS (even if you like it or not) is what makes this game stand out.

@Lostwingman: I can agree with that. But the humans aren’t much better tbh…
The History of Tyria (which is GW1 lore, dating back to game release) describes humans as a race with “desire for control”. “Taking up residence in lands that did not belong to us.”. “We took all of the privilege and none of the responsibility”.

When the Charr later said that the humans “spread like a plague across the continent”, that’s actually quite in line with the original GW1 lore.

Humans could have resided in other lands (or just stayed in Cantha). But we chose to invade Ascalon “for sports” and/or for power and control – even though the lands were already inhabited.
Did we have a better reason to push the Charr out, than they had to be pushing us out?

No one is truly innocent here. But finally Ascalon (at least Charr vs Humans) is in peace. As long as there’s peace, I don’t care who owns the lands. We have Kryta which is in a better state and just as big anyways. To even suggest that humans should seek revenge on the Charr just underlines the “desire for control” statement.

Obsidian.1328:

They can write in anything they want for them, and they did just that by claiming Ascalon as some “ancestral homeland.” That’s something that was never a part of their history in GW1 proper.

I’m not saying it was part of their history in GW1 (before EOTN). In fact, the first official timeline released by ArenaNet back in April 2005 told us that “100BE: High-plains human settlements become known as Ascalon.”.
5 years later, when Ghosts of Ascalon was released: this sentence had changed to “100 BE: Humans drive charr out of Ascalon.”.

So if you’re saying that Charr were purely evil savage beasts in GW1, and didn’t have any claim on Ascalon, no one can argue with that. That was my point when I added the interview quotes. They’re saying straight forward that they rewrote (“turning them”, “holy converted”) the Charr. In specific: their heritage claim to Ascalon being their homeland.

So, I can’t argue with Charr being purely evil in GW1 (before EOTN, and that one friendly Charr in Nightfall).
And, you can’t really argue with them having a heritage claim to Ascalon in GW2 (otherwise known as the latest version of GW lore).

Obsidian.1328:

They can write in anything they want

Yes … and they did. It doesn’t really matter if you think “Ree and Jeff are the two worst culprits of this mess”.

Titus.4285:

b a d kitten

/resign… hahahaha :P Laughing so hard I’m crying….

EpicBanHammer.7521:

Titus.4285:

Quaggan with “Enraged” elite skill! Also check this one out! Rest my case!

kitten and cute!

Who says we can’t have cute Kodans?

No one, but Quaggans are certainly cut_er_! :P
And LOL! Didn’t know that they added a “kitten”-filter. That made my last sentence make absolutely no sense :P What I was trying to say was b a d kitten (comeon.. that’s not really a swearword is it? :P)

Quaggan with “Enraged” elite skill! Also check this one out! Rest my case!

kitten and cute!

I said I would shut it, and I won’t take part of the discussion. I just thought I’d share a few things Ree and Jeff said back in 2012:

Jeff Grubb:

“The Charr, as you mentioned previously, they were the bad guys. They were evil, they were mean, they were the horrible guys that were basically bringing about the Searing. As we get to Guild Wars 2 we are turning them heroic. Actually, just examining their virtues. Seeing, what is it about the Charr which is a good thing? They were retaking their homeland. They had been driven back, and now they were reclaiming land”.

Ree Soesbee:

“There’s not that many examples in fantasy where the evil race is holy converted by the narrator into its own persepective. Into a good race. Or to a race with heroic quality. (…) We’ve really gone a step farther in Guild Wars 2, and we’ve given you the Charr perspective, of why they did these things. And how, from their point of view: they were kicked out of Ascalon by the humans, and they are simply freedom fighters reclaiming what was taken from them.

Source: http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/327657138

Thanks for the positive feedback!
Since this thread was originally posted on the lore forums, I’ll add the feedback it got there:

DaShi.1368:

I hope the Durmond Priory displays the Undead Sea Scrolls from the Royal Library of Arah.

kylwilson.9137:

It would be fantastic to have a cross EU/US ‘instance’ or however you’d like to label it, to talk about lore with other enthusiasts, with all of the in-game lore available in the one place, like as you say, a public library.

Also, Mr Wooden Potatoes recently published a video on The Arch or Nothing short-story where several people commented how they would love to see in-game books/libraries improved. And I’ve seen several discussions about it in-game.

It certainly seems that there is an interest for this sort of feature, but the response to this thread hasn’t exactly been overwhelming. Is this only wanted by the minority? Thoughts?

+1.
I think this feature should as a separate tab on the hero-menu. I don’t really see the value of putting it into the HoM or a library (even though I usually support stuff being implemented in such an immersive way).
I just think this particular feature should be as simple as possible: both to implement and to use. Imagine if ANet had this thought from the beginning of an LS season; one and one cutscene, slowly being composed into an intriguing coherent “play all” story.

Regarding that thought: they really need to start adding narrative voice-overs to their cutscenes. For me, a player who didn’t participate in the Twilight Assault, that cutscene (though it’s really cinematic and stuffed with beautiful scenes) doesn’t tell me anything when I see it on YouTube 2 months down the line.

Please don’t make this into another “all players left because they’re bored, the game is dead” -thread. The game isn’t “dead”, and I don’t think the OP wanted this thread to go that way.

Nevertheless; players being densely populated around the focal points of the latest release or patch – while other more remote areas are left empty and desolated – is a problem that needs attention!

That there’s less people playing old content than there is people playing new content is only natural. You’ll find it any MMO. But there are ways to compensate for this fact.
My suggestion is to partly bring back the cross-server “international districs” system, similiar to GW1. If you combine all EU and NA servers (aka ‘worlds’) into one common district system, you could suddently have every map (including the racial cities) feel alive and vibrant again.
I do understand that this causes some issues with feeling connected with your world and obviously some dev. effort. But regarding WvW and releases; the worlds could still be kept separated.
And since GW2 is based upon the same platform as GW1 was, I can’t see it being impossible to implement?

+1. Always wondered why this wasn’t an option.. Especially when roaming around the world with blink
(but as many others have said: it should be an “option” to toggle it on/off)

@Everyone: if you agree (or disagree for that matter): keep updating this thread and make it a “sticky”

Personally, I would find it so much better if ANet just officially stated that things like WPs and ress.shrines are not lore. But simply game mechanics.
Even though I am a big fan of the game’s lore, I also aknowledge that it is a game. Sadly, (in my opinion) connecting minor game mechanics like these to lore; weakens the game’s backstory instead of strengthening it.

I would be perfectly fine if they just said “WP doesn’t exist in Tyria. It’s just a game mechanic”. Even better: they could remove the in-game graphic, only making them visible on your map UI. To me, that would make the world feel a little bit more natural and realistic, and would also greatly strengthen the lore about Asura gates!

…not that this keeps me awake at night :P

I miss it.
But: GW2 promised to go away from the trinity, and try to break out of the “box”. They’ve done that, and by doing so, they’re quite revolusionary in the standard MMO genre. We absoulutely need developers that dare taking such risk (just like D3 have decided to completely remove their high-end TP – ‘hint-hint’).
Can’t complain about stuff like this, even though I personally miss it. If I end up missing it too much, I’d just have to find another game to play. Simple as that…

Medens.4960:

I mean rubix cubes work like that right? But sliding puzzles need the player’s brain to be completed, as there are like a thousand, maybe millions of random ways in which position the puzzle pieces lie from the beginning.

Agreed. Various puzzles like this would be great!
Take that, and combine it of some sort with totally randomized locations. E.g. randomized in-game screenshots: I think we might actually be onto something that could be very fun, challenging and rewarding!

Algreg.3629:

a very nice idea, I think your rewards are a bit off, but an addition like that would be most welcomed by me at least. It should use actual, random (“geographical”) maps though, like in Pirates, not riddles and the like which will be up on dulfy 3 days after release anyway.

Based upon my thread above, I found this suggestion quite interesting!
If you manage to make it TOTALLY random: the game cuts out just a very small portion of the map for you, except it’s not a copy of your world map: but an in-game screenshot taken from above with a randomly placed X on the ground below (mechanically-wise e.g. an AoE “X”-spell).

The “camera” would be positioned like 50 meters above the ground, pointing downwards (possibly also randomly twisted: e.g. up isn’t necessarily north). High enough to show enough content. That could be an idea, which would be impossible to make guides for.

Then you would actually have to think and investigate: “Well, it’s white, so it must be somewhere in the Shiverpeaks. There seems to be some sort of lodge there.. hmmm. A mountain at the right edge..”.

Regarding rewards: I think the rewards of such content should mainly be the accomplishment itself. With totally random locations, you could have an infinite numbers of locations to explore. Each rewarding a small chest when you find the location and press “dig”. Just like 5-10 APs and some random loot.

I realise my proposal here certainly has some possible flaws. But my main points are: I think it will be absolutely necessary to remove the possibility to create guides in order to make this fun. And I don’t think it should grant big rewards, or be especially hard to get a treasure map.

I love the idea of solving puzzles and looking for clues. I would wish a challenging treasure hunt welcome! (I won’t take the rewards aspect into consideration at all in this thread, just the treasure hunt).

One negative aspect I can see, is not connected to your idea per say. But the way most of MMO players would play this kind of content. With all the guides and YouTube videos we have these days, all the fun and sense of accomplishment can easily dissappear from content like this.
Even though I know that I will have more fun not using guides, I often take myself in checking the guide anyway.

Because at a certain point, when you start struggling too much, you just go “ah, feck it, I’ll just go check Dulfy – or else I won’t have enought time to grind LA”. We often take the easy and lazy way out, and rush from AP to AP / grind to grind. And I think this has become more of a problem in MMOs, compared to single player games where you (at least I) take more time to actually enjoy the game at your own pace.

So, I am all for your idea. But I am afraid most of the players will ruin the experience from themselves. How could you encourage players to not open a guide from the very start, or not alt-tab when they get stuck? How do you get players to actually play such content, instead of following a step-by-step do this do that?

@Bullyrook:

Thanks! I don’t think this is a particularly new idea though? But I do hope and think that I give it a slightly different spin with my thoughts about having it totally public.

.

@Sera:

A home instance library would be nice, but it would take away the “living breathing world” aspect (see my “Public library” chapter above).
I really think an in-game library must offer something more (at least something else) than what the web do, in order to be actively used and appreciated by the players.

Regarding scraps: I’m all for it (see my “Unlocking books” chapter above). I mentioned “The Founding”. Other examples could be the Mariner’s Plaques, except you’d be collecting “facts” instead of scraps. Then deliver them to Jituya Itemo. He then writes – and unlocks – the final book version for the library: “Sea of Sorrows (a biography of Cobiah Marriner)” by Jituya Itemo.

For LS releases and in-game implementation of ArenaNet’s wonderful short-stories, let me use The Trek of the Zephyrites as an example (“what the could have done”):
The 3 scraps of the story would initially been a part of the Bazaar patch content. They’ve been spread with the wind, and you’ll find them around the Zephyr Sancum (e.g. accessible via mini-JPs).

When you got all three, you must bring them to Durmand library where it gets compiled into the final book version. It will now be accessible for you here, and you might also get rewarded for the “Scrap Trek” achievement (or something like that :P).

After the patch, all players would get access to the book. As it has now been officially released by the Priory.

I can see and understand both sides of this case.
And I wouldn’t really mind it if they simply added a “legendary quest” to the current cost. As long as it is really well developed fun content, I’d want to be doing it anyway. And it could add some of that “legendary feel”, without making the legendaries any cheaper or easier to get.
Then, people who already have gotten a legendary, wouldn’t be punished. And if you haven’t.. well tough luck. But as a “compensation” you’ll get a ton of great quest content, and you get to feel even more legendary when finally achieving the goal.

And regarding TP and soulbound/accountbound:
Make legendaries accountbound! No more to say. You can make them harder to get, but making them soulbound contradicts everything ANet stands for with GW2. It was a goal for them that people would be using a variety of characters instead of sticking just to one.
They’ve made currency accountbound, WvW rank is going to be soon, more and more ascended gear (meta rewards) is. Just make them a little bit harder to get, while you “compensate” by making the accountbound.

Remove the option to sell/buy precursors and legendaries.
Make precursors partly a reward for “legendary quests” +.a price tag somewhat equal to their current prices on the TP (keep the difference in price: where the most popular costs more than the less popular ones).
To think that my buddies who’ve played the same amount of time as myself have gotten 3-4 precursor drops, and I none, just feels wrong, unfair, and unsatisfying….

Ok. Thanks for the redirect Jelle. And my apologies for posting here in the first place.
Re-posted here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Renovating-The-public-Durmand-library/

This thread should be considered closed.

There’s no such thing as GW1 and GW2 in lore…

I refuse to believe that all copies of books like History of Tyria and An Empire Divided (and many more) has managed to disappear completely. The Durmand Priory have actively been collecting data and books for the last 220 years. So, tear down the wall between GW1 and GW2 in lore, and put these books up on a display stand!

Library sections:

• “Fact-based fiction” = short-stories written in the fiction-style.
• “Nonfiction litterature” = facts. History of Tyria, An Empire Divided, The Ecology of the Charr, Those Sneaky, Sneaky Skritt, etc…
• “Fiction” = Possibly a future extension, where ArenaNet can add some of the best works of fiction content produced by players.

A community effort

ArenaNet can’t do everything on their own. And to “steal” a little bit of fan-created content shouldn’t be considered a shame.
If they create simple-to-follow guidelines for how books should be created. Which fonts and what art content that can be used, players would be able to submit their versions. E.g. on the fan-generated content forums for ArenaNet to use and implement.

For someone who is interested in creating such content, it would be the biggest honor to see some of their work be added to the game.

Unlocking books

I really think the library should be public, in the sense that all players can access most of the books from the very start. But, to encourage the library to be used, some books could require you to do certain things before you can access them within the library. A typical example would be The Founding.

First you would have to do the Speedy Reader achievement and collect all of the scrapped pages (currently they are placed in-game as books, but as I pointed out: I don’t really have much love for books that doesn’t contain more than 3-4 sentences). Then you could bring the scraps to Decimus who will compile them into the complete book (with illustrations and everything) that you can now find in the library.

I don’t know how they will make books appear to some, and be hidden for others, but this can’t be too hard to manage (I think my “international districs” would be itzybitzy harder to implement ^^). If nothing else, you could simply get “Sorry, you haven’t unlocked this book yet.”. I wouldn’t mind that too much.

Misc topics: book stands, other libraries, “book collectibles”

I’ve only been talking about the Durmand library. But the “book overhaul” is something that should be universally for all books and journals of course. But, should you be able to pick up a book from the local book stand for you to keep in your inventory? No…

I did have an idea about being able to buy books. Especially from the book stands. And I was thinking it would be great to be able to “collect’em all” in their very own collectibles tab.
But after some though, I understand that this would definately ruin the “public library” thought I have. If you have your books that easily available, there wouldn’t be much point in going to the Durmand library – and you would certainly loose a lot of the immersive feel and “living breathing world” that I’m looking for.

Therefore, I have in my suggestion instead decided to “force” players to go to the Durmand library if they want to read anything. I do think you could be able to buy some books though, or collect them at libraries – but they would have to be brought to the Durmand library and would be working like an unlock.
“Hey traveler. Please, could you help me deliver this book to Decimus the Historian at the Priory?”, said the librarian to the thief. :P

But if my big thoughts on a living breathing public library fails. Well, then I’d go for book collectibles instead!

.

Pros and cons, what are your thoughts? Could you give a bookahs kitten about books, or would this be something for you?

(Improvement suggestion to ArenaNet)

Background:

ArenaNet have been very good at writing interesting lore and short-stories. The GW universe is filled with so much detail and depth, which has made the game quite loveable amongst its lore-loving players.
However, at the same time they are often criticized for not presenting their lore in a good way and/or not presenting it in-game. We have a lack of good presentation and a lack of “lore immersity”.

In-game books:

In game, you’ll find quite many interactive (and non-interactive) books scattered around.
However, these are presented in form of tedious and boring UIs (dialogue boxes). One sentence at a time, you need to click “next” to read more. And you’re very seldom given more than 3-4 short sentences per book.

The Elder Scrolls series are well known for their massive library of in-game books. And these are often 20 pages (or more) stuffed with both text and illustrations.
Guild Wars 1 did the same (+more) with their Storybooks. And I was really quite surprised they didn’t transfer and further improve this way of presenting books into GW2.

Public library

By “public”, I really mean public. Renovate the libraries in the basement of the Durmand Priory. Open the doors, and make it the first international (cross-server EU&NA) district, like those we had in GW1.
I think this will be absoultely necessary in order to create a “living, breathing world that bustles with energy”. (I think this is what ArenaNet should have done with their entire server system (maps and cities alike) to keep population dense. But that discussion doesn’t really belong in this thread…)

This would put us next to Mr Wooden Potatos and Konig Des Todes, and we could create a living breathing in-game mini-forum. “Hey, look at what I found. What do you think of this? Does anyone know…?”.
If you limit it to the current server-system, it would quickly feel lonely and empty. And that would take away the interest and immersiveness of being here rather than reading books of the internet.

“Why read books, when you could watch the movie?” aka Nanosuratechnology

This guy is probably not the average player, let’s admit that. So, in order to keep most players from turning out the door the minute after they arrived at our “public library”, we need to do more than just adding a few illustrations and pretty fonts.

With magic and the latest Asura technology, I think Scholar Wikki should be able to add a summary page with active video content for the most important books.
Those lazy bookahs could get the outlines explained from a cutscene similar to those we’ve seen in-game. While the full texts, and ‘less important’ books, will of course add more readable details for those specially interested.
P.S. I don’t want to overuse this type of feature. But simply start out adding one and another. The Living Story could get its own book series “Tyria anno 1326 AE (LS season 1)”, “Tyria 1327 AE (LS season 2)” etc.. And the first book is already more or less completed.

If one prefers to keep a few books in its original language (e.g. New Krytan), this same technology could be also used to give an oral English translation (it could also be possible to add voiceovers also for the English texts).

ThiBash.5634:

The Durmand Priory already has a public library in Divinity’s Reach.

I know. And they have a library at the Priory as well. But in this thread I’m talking about mechanics and possible improvements to the way lore (mainly books) is being presented in-game.

On second thought, this may not be the right forum for this type of discussion? Or?

There’s no such thing as GW1 and GW2 in lore…

I refuse to believe that all copies of books like History of Tyria and An Empire Divided (and many more) has managed to disappear completely. The Durmand Priory have actively been collecting data and books for the last 220 years. So, tear down the wall between GW1 and GW2 in lore, and put these books up on a display stand!

Library sections:

• “Fact-based fiction” = short-stories written in the fiction-style.
• “Nonfiction litterature” = facts. History of Tyria, An Empire Divided, The Ecology of the Charr, Those Sneaky, Sneaky Skritt, etc…
• “Fiction” = Possibly a future extension, where ArenaNet can add some of the best works of fiction content produced by players.

A community effort

ArenaNet can’t do everything on their own. And to “steal” a little bit of fan-created content shouldn’t be considered a shame.
If they create simple-to-follow guidelines for how books should be created. Which fonts and what art content that can be used, players would be able to submit their versions. E.g. on the fan-generated content forums for ArenaNet to use and implement.

For someone who is interested in creating such content, it would be the biggest honor to see some of their work be added to the game.

Unlocking books

I really think the library should be public, in the sense that all players can access most of the books from the very start. But, to encourage the library to be used, some books could require you to do certain things before you can access them within the library. A typical example would be The Founding.

First you would have to do the Speedy Reader achievement and collect all of the scrapped pages (currently they are placed in-game as books, but as I pointed out: I don’t really have much love for books that doesn’t contain more than 3-4 sentences). Then you could bring the scraps to Decimus who will compile them into the complete book (with illustrations and everything) that you can now find in the library.

I don’t know how they will make books appear to some, and be hidden for others, but this can’t be too hard to manage (I think my “international districs” would be itzybitzy harder to implement ^^). If nothing else, you could simply get “Sorry, you haven’t unlocked this book yet.”. I wouldn’t mind that too much.

Misc topics: book stands, other libraries, “book collectibles”

I’ve only been talking about the Durmand library. But the “book overhaul” is something that should be universally for all books and journals of course. But, should you be able to pick up a book from the local book stand for you to keep in your inventory? No…

I did have an idea about being able to buy books. Especially from the book stands. And I was thinking it would be great to be able to “collect’em all” in their very own collectibles tab.
But after some though, I understand that this would definately ruin the “public library” thought I have. If you have your books that easily available, there wouldn’t be much point in going to the Durmand library – and you would certainly loose a lot of the immersive feel and “living breathing world” that I’m looking for.

Therefore, I have in my suggestion instead decided to “force” players to go to the Durmand library if they want to read anything. I do think you could be able to buy some books though, or collect them at libraries – but they would have to be brought to the Durmand library and would be working like an unlock.
“Hey traveler. Please, could you help me deliver this book to Decimus the Historian at the Priory?”, said the librarian to the thief. :P

But if my big thoughts on a living breathing public library fails. Well, then I’d go for book collectibles instead!

.

Pros and cons, what are your thoughts? Could you give a bookahs kitten about books, or would this be something for you?

(Improvement suggestion to ArenaNet)

Background:

ArenaNet have been very good at writing interesting lore and short-stories. The GW universe is filled with so much detail and depth, which has made the game quite loveable amongst its lore-loving players.
However, at the same time they are often criticized for not presenting their lore in a good way and/or not presenting it in-game. We have a lack of good presentation and a lack of “lore immersity”.

In-game books:

In game, you’ll find quite many interactive (and non-interactive) books scattered around.
However, these are presented in form of tedious and boring UIs (dialogue boxes). One sentence at a time, you need to click “next” to read more. And you’re very seldom given more than 3-4 short sentences per book.

The Elder Scrolls series are well known for their massive library of in-game books. And these are often 20 pages (or more) stuffed with both text and illustrations.
Guild Wars 1 did the same (+more) with their Storybooks. And I was really quite surprised they didn’t transfer and further improve this way of presenting books into GW2.

Public library

By “public”, I really mean public. Renovate the libraries in the basement of the Durmand Priory. Open the doors, and make it the first international (cross-server EU&NA) district, like those we had in GW1.
I think this will be absoultely necessary in order to create a “living, breathing world that bustles with energy”. (I think this is what ArenaNet should have done with their entire server system (maps and cities alike) to keep population dense. But that discussion doesn’t really belong in this thread…)

This would put us next to Mr Wooden Potatos and Konig Des Todes, and we could create a living breathing in-game mini-forum. “Hey, look at what I found. What do you think of this? Does anyone know…?”.
If you limit it to the current server-system, it would quickly feel lonely and empty. And that would take away the interest and immersiveness of being here rather than reading books of the internet.

“Why read books, when you could watch the movie?” aka Nanosuratechnology

This guy is probably not the average player, let’s admit that. So, in order to keep most players from turning out the door the minute after they arrived at our “public library”, we need to do more than just adding a few illustrations and pretty fonts.

With magic and the latest Asura technology, I think Scholar Wikki should be able to add a summary page with active video content for the most important books.
Those lazy bookahs could get the outlines explained from a cutscene similar to those we’ve seen in-game. While the full texts, and ‘less important’ books, will of course add more readable details for those specially interested.
P.S. I don’t want to overuse this type of feature. But simply start out adding one and another. The Living Story could get its own book series “Tyria anno 1326 AE (LS season 1)”, “Tyria 1327 AE (LS season 2)” etc.. And the first book is already more or less completed.

If one prefers to keep a few books in its original language (e.g. New Krytan), this same technology could be also used to give an oral English translation (it could also be possible to add voiceovers also for the English texts).

+1! I really hope Guild Wars 2 add more official lore in-game.
I think the Atlas was a great thought, but for me it just doesn’t feel immersive or fun. I want to run into such additional info during my gaming experience.

(just as I really would have liked to enter the Durmand Priory’s libraries (or book stands in Divinity’s Reach etc.) and be able to read the full versions of “The History of Tyria”, “The Ecology of the Charr”, etc. etc. – I will make a separate thread later on for the many thoughts I have on this matter)

Just think it’s worth mentioning:

• The 3 games will work just the way expansions do (you will have only one login screen, and can travel with your characters between each of the 3 continents)
• Start of with the 1st game released; called “Prophecies” (Tyria, the same continent as you play on in Guild Wars 2). Cantha (“Factions”) and Elona (“Nightfall”) have little impact on the current story in GW2. If “Prophecies” peaks your interest you can pick up the other ones at your own pace.
• You shouldn’t worry about running into hard group stuff. GW1 is much more singleplayer-ish, where only the cities follow the MMO concept. Each map is an instance for 8-player teams (max). You can easily go on your own with 7 NPC henchmen that will help you out and keep you company.
• If you get lonely, or need help. I am sure you’ll be able to get some veteran players come join you. Just shout out here in the forums
• Read what the quest givers tell you! There’s a lot of lore here, which can easily be missed!

Obsidian
I just realized that I’ve been causing this to go way off topic, instead of getting it more on topic – as was my intention.
For this, I apologize. And I will shut it from here on out. I don’t think there is much I can say that hasn’t already been said.

However, if you read my post again, I am sure you’ll notice that I meant to say that “ANet manages perfectly well on their own in adding confusion” (or open holes if you will). Not the other way around. At least it seems like you misunderstood me here.

Yes, I got confused, and I didn’t really understand the discussion. If this was my own fault, I humbly apologize once again.

Valior.4712:

thank you Lilith

http://youtu.be/3T7gWnyXIVA?t=24s

Obsidian.1328:

original GW lore

Why are we even discussing this? We have official GW lore, and we have not offical GW lore.
I can understand that you may wish that some things in lore would have been developed towards another direction. But the OP of this thread is asking the question based upon the current situation in Tyria, anno 1327 AE. So please, relate to that.

Right now, I feel that you are adding a lot of confusion to what’s true and what’s not in the current universe. ArenaNet manages this perfectly well on their own, so I really don’t think that the players should consciously add more confusion.

I would suggest that you instead create your own thread for these kind of discussions. Where the purpose is clearly explained in the subject: e.g. “If Guild Wars 2 never excisted; which alternative directions would you have liked to see for the GW1 lore?”.

Please please please move your discussion to a more appropriate thread.

So, your statements are regarding “who had better claim of Ascalon” is based upon:
*Before the lore was re-imagined to suit the introduction of GW2
*The events as they were in first game", not as they currently are.

Well, that might be the discussion you’re running, but I don’t think anyone else finds that even interesting. It is just too many “what if?’s”. Mainly the “what if Guild Wars 2 was never released?”. Which… it is.

And:

Put simply at the end of GW the humans in Ascalon were holding the line and were in no way retreating. Claim on ownership is what it is. Who had the ability to hold ownership of the land by force of arms.

At the end of GW(1) the humans proved they had it.

Except this isn’t true, at all. Most Ascalonians fled from their homes in 1070-1072 AE, after the Charr had invaded so-to-speak all of Ascalon. Only a very small bastion remained together with “mad king Adelbern”.

You do need to remember that what you see in GW1 post-searing is always the Ascalon anno 1072 AE. At the end of the game (1080 AE), the humans retreated even more, leaving only a small minority of human presence in Ascalon.

The Charr invasion of Ascalon (“by force of arms”) succeded. They invaded and destroyed the lands in 1070-1072 AE, and by 1080 AE they had a far larger presence there than the humans did. In fact, the Charr won in your terms of “force of arms”.

Alice.8694:

And my complaint is that it is too simple and easy to simple pick and use this rationale as your story. It’s borderline cliche, it was a villain, we had to kill them. How boring and how unheroic.

This part we can agree 100% on! And that is exactly why I hope the “Aftermath” release explains these issues (at least to some degree). Hopefully, it give us some of the what and why.
And even more importantly: let’s hope we get the next what and why presented to us at a great extent both prior to and continously through Living Story season 2.

I like to believe that Marjory and Kasmeer (and Taimi) know far more about the background to the recent happenings than what they’ve currently revealed to us. If they do, it could better explain the fact that Scarlet was finished off so quickly.

After all, it was Braham who said “it doesn’t matter” to Scarlet’s “don’t you wonder why I did it?”. And Braham, a hotheaded norn, doesn’t seem to have his mother’s skills of reflection and precautions.

Regarding the “mental patient” vs “branded” theory:
Any way we were in fact at war with Scarlet. And countries at war, do not follow the same rules as a country in peace with a calm, sophisticated and idealistic law-and-court system.

When that’s said, I would much rather have seen Marjory actually die; and then have Kasmeer murder Scarlet in intense rage (while the other members tries to protect “the system” and our idealistic values and to stop her, though fails to hold her back). That would to me have a much greater impact, and then we would have a real difficult discussion on whether or not it was morally right or wrong – and if Kasmeer should be prosecuted or not for her actions.

But, as I started this post: I hope they do know much more than we’ve been told so far, and that it will all be put into a greater context when the “Aftermath” patch is released on March 18th.

Wow. This post was huge! :P
But it was a good read: well written and many interesting pieces of information! So hats off. My first thought when I saw the subject was “Well, my God Abaddon, this seems a little bit far-fetched”. But what (positively) surprised me is that you’re not necessarily putting them up as the main antagonists of the next LS season.
Instead, you’re just pointing out that it doesn’t seems unlikely that we will run into them. And that certainly peaks my interest!

I think it would be very interesting to learn more about their downfall, and their current presence in the world. I do not find much interest in having them return as the main antagonists though. That would just be milking an old cow for me. “It’s a closed chapter, they’re defeated. Been there, done that. Played that story, don’t wanna do it again”.

But having them kinda on the sideline would be very interesting to me. Hopefully, we can learn a little bit of their history, and maybe having them bridge us over to a new and/or greater goal.

Just popped into my head: say we stumble upon an abondoned WM camp/town. Except, it’s empty. Literally no one or nothing there, except tattered banners and flags. A total ghost town, but without the ghosts.

All there is, are a few broken journals, books and clues scattered around. They give us some background story + clues as to why they disappeared and what happened here (e.g. Mordremoth corruption). I think it would be really interesting and smart if ANet took a couple of small “pauses”. If they took some small breakes to add some purely lore-building patches to the LS; just introducing more depth and building solid foundations for their story (which was what they did not do in LS s1: where the events rushed ahead a bit too quickly, and the plot was left limping behind).

Anyways, was a good read! Thanks

History of Tyria:

The serpents were the protectors of the land, the keepers of knowledge, the teachers of all things, and during their time the world was in balance.

But then a new race of creatures was birthed upon the world. They were neither serpent nor beast. They were neither plant nor stone. These creatures had no chitinous hide to protect themselves. They had no claws to tear flesh. They arrived naked and defenseless, except for one thing: their desire for control.

This new race of creatures was none other than us humans, and in no time we began to take over. Cities bloomed across the continent. Walls were erected, and weapons forged. Those things that we humans lacked, we simply built. We didn’t need tough hides nor rending claws when we could make metal armor and sharpened spears. We discovered fire, wrote books of our own, passed knowledge to one another through song and verse. Soon humans had everything we required, and it was then that we began to prey upon the other creatures. We hunted animals for sport, chased the druids from the jungle, and took up residence in lands that did not belong to us. We became the masters of this world. We took all of the privilege and none of the responsibility.

Excerpt from The History of Tyria, Volume 1
Thadeus Lamount, Historian

@Nicholas S Lin:
Humans doesn’t have any historical claim on Tyria (the continent). In fact, the established lore tells us that we came to Tyria (the world) as aliens from another planet, so we wouldn’t have much historical claim to any land.
We are, by both Charr (ref. The Ecology of the Charr) and Human (ref. The History of Tyria) described as an intruding force.

We, “Humans drove the Charr out of Ascalon” in 100 BE (ref. the official GW2 timeline). Yes, it may be debatable how much of the land was settled by the Charr prior to our invasion. But does that matter?
Are you also debating whether or not the American Indians are the ones with the most historical claim to the U.S.? They did neither build any “permanent structures”.

I’m not saying we don’t have the right to be there. Not at all. I’m not saying that we should have a share of the land. On the contrary, I’ve previously said in this thread that “History is history”. But what you are debating is the subject of historical claim.
Charr were present in Ascalon before we were, it is as simple as that…