Guild Wars 2

Anyone else feel like all these buffs to auto attacks, the multiple skills that hit for +10k by themselves, and the ease of spamming conditions for MASSIVE damage is just promoting lazy and boring gameplay?

In my opinion:
~Auto attacks should not be a main attack… no skill required
~Skills that deal +8k on there own should not exist… a +8k combo sure… more skill required
~These spamwich builds need to be removed somehow… low risk high reward makes no sense… these include dh trapper and heavy condition builds. I remember gw1 had a cap as to how fast conditions could kill you. Up to a point more conditions would hurt more and after that point extra conditions did nothing. Implement this so condition spammers actually have to think a little instead of literally spamming their skills for insta kills. Cause lets be serious, condition spammers can apply conditions (no skill required) faster than any class can remove them unless said classes are running full anti-condition/bunker builds; which they won’t be cause bunker is mostly gone.

Floplag.4032:

Varezenem.2813:

Floplag.4032:

I played a DH thru most of last season to diamond in mostly solo queue and i did well on it mainly because people constantly had to leeroy into my traps without thinking and didn’t have a clue how to use terrain and other thing to their advantage. Those who did, beat me easily, those who didnt, well thank you for the diamond i guess.

If you stand still and eat these kinds of things that have such a huge bast time and are telegraphed a mile away, the skill may not be the problem

CoR is an instant cast, not a fair comparison at all, just sayin…

CoR has the exact same cast time 3/4.

i stand corrected, it feels like an instant but you are correct.
that having been said it still does higher damage to multiple target so… meh, whatever.
i still say those who are complaining about DH are the problem, not the DH. If you use your brain instead of your balls we are not OP at all.

Cause porting in, spamming traps, cc and bs 10k one-shot skills takes so much brains

yeah warden is trash already in most situations.

I feel you on the state of mes in general. but yeah I knew that and I’m still not getting any condi removal… really not helping since I’m already at a big disadvantage.

Is mender’s purity working for anyone in pvp? It’s not for me.

Chip Skylark.2367:

Mak.2657:

I’m feared that dat guys not even trolls…
Chrono was heavily nerfed ( even chrono shatter – alacrity, nerf, quickness stomp/rezz nerf, Sigil of energe nerf, etc) +buffed thief . I have feelings like chrono is low/mid tier now.

Btw, Chip Skylark.2367 wanna try some BO5 where you on chono shatter (with moa) and me on any other class on your choice (build choice is still mine though)

I’m not trolling. These roleplayers are trying to use clever mesmer misdirection tricks on us to make this thread about trolling and not about how broken their class is.

And no, I don’t play mesmer. I don’t like the idea of hiding behind stealth/clones like a coward and using dirty broken tricks like Moa! Not my style.

Listen… i agree moa is some cheep ****, I’ve played mes since day one and and i refuse to use it cause you’re right it’s a bs cheep shot.

However mes is in no way op right now and is actually one of the worst classes currently with no build diversity. Since this is anet you will probably get your way and mes will be nerfed again but if you are getting killed by a mes its because they are actually good… if you are getting killed by all meses… its cause you are bad.

stop asking to nerf mes…. thank you

LMFAO is this post for real?

mes is literally garbage right now with shatter being the only thing semi worth it. the mes burst is not EASY to pull off so it should kill you if you are dumb enough to get hit with all 8 or so skills at once.

bottom line… its essentially a one hit kill. the 3/4 cast time is not THAT much for THAT big a shot on THAT low a CD. there shouldn’t be any one hit kills no matter what the effects are.

4 sec CD!!! I can only dodge, blind, evade, block, so many times…. and most of that goes to avoiding traps. Its not the in battle period that’s really dumb its the one hit kill from behind you. lot of skill that takes

How can you call using ONE skill that’s on a 4 sec CD at 1200 range balanced when it hits for more than a mes 8 skill combo who is running full zerk? Same with Backstab but at least they have to get close.

Lahmia.2193:

Are you serious? Those clone death spam builds were cancerous. And this is coming from someone that played it frequently once I found out how easy to play and effective it was. Yes it was great fun, mainly because of how troll-ey it was.

Not nearly as bad as the necro spamwich we have now

Chaos armor still applies an extra stack of confusion when Ineptitude is active even though it no longer blinds…. if you’re gonna nerf the **** out of a class at least do it right.

Coulter.2315:

To make Arcane Thievery useful I think you’d need to make it AoE (240 radius), Mimic is a very strong utility for very niche situations and I think its best to leave it at that.

I agree its okay… but there has to be something you can do that would make it more useful to bring in a specific build over another skill. Reduce CD to start… but that’s the typical lazy-man approach

Arcane Thievery and Mimic are two skills that most closely relate to when Mesmer was truly Mesmer (gw1). I’d love to use them but they just aren’t good enough. I mean they are good in and of themselves but they don’t fit in any of the few useful builds mes has left.

YuukiAsuna.3417:

Magira.6390:

Carighan.6758:

baylock.1703:

Am I only 1 much more fun than last build stop crying I started playing hybrid mesmer dueling crono illusion with sinister scrapper runes and gs scepter shield

PvP. Can we please think of the other 99,8% of the game, too?

In the other 98.5% it does not matter which class you play.
Plus, it’s been proven, over and over again, that condi shatter just isn’t a competitive choice in high level PvP.
Want to troll hot join and unranked? Sure. Winning a Championship? No.

Yeah it does too…
Mesmer is only wanted in WvW for veil. Thief is hardly ever wanted for group play, etc.
in OPEN world PvE you are right it doesn’t matter. But some people actually play more that just one game mode. GASP!

In WvW you are there whether people want you there or not. in PvE you are all on the same team so who gives a c*** if its not perfectly balanced. The game should be balanced around PvP and tuned to other game modes.

Xstein.2187:

I almost agree with you 100%. There is only one thing I would change:
Add one more kitten before the word ROLE.
There is currently no role for pvp mesmers now. Game over. I’m with you that bunker mes is boring. All we want is at least one COMPETITIVE build that is fast paced and lively. Now, all we can do is pray to Lyssa that some changes come soon. If they don’t, I’m sticking with pyro’s plan and calling it quits for this game, and honestly…its not just this patch. I’m kitten tired of careless nerfs made to the mesmer class just to appease the masses. Others don’t want mesmers to be a class in gw2? Then kitten it, I quit.

How long has mesmer been in the pvp meta compared to the rest of the classes?

Besides bunker mes (which many traditional mesmers do not like playing), how many times was it worth while to bring more than one mesmer into pvp? And yes, I’m looking at you eles. Is the mesmer going to be viable after these nerfs like the eles were previously?

How many times was the mesmer class nerfed Between balance patches? How many times has this happened to other classes? Do you really think they would ever buff mesmers between balance patches?

When has it been worth while to bring multiple mesmers into pve content? Why is it so bad that there can’t be more than one mesmer in a raid? How many god kitten berserkers and scrappers were brought into raids before? There are nine spots open in a raid. If one group brings two mesmers, it doesn’t mean you have to nerf the class into uselessness. If this was the case, we would have no Eles, warriors, engis, and revs.

Look at the history. How many mesmers have been in the first place teams for the world tournament series?
Beijing Dec 5, 2014: 2 eles, 2 engis, 1 thief, 0 mesmers
Boston Mar 7, 2015: 1 engi, 1 guardian, 1 warrior, 1 ele, 1 thief, 0 mesmers
Cologne Aug 8, 2015: 1 engi, 2 eles, 1 necro, 1 thief, 0 mesmers

Mesmers have had kitten in their pvp history. If this game was balanced than you would see a lot more variety.

How does sustained dps of a mes/chrono compare to the other classes? Notice I’m not just pointing out a couple classes, I’m talking about ALL the other classes.

The list could literally go on and on. Based on the history of this game, it looks like there is some biased kitten puppy going on here.

Whatever, I just don’t care anymore. You would have thought this “history” would have been fixed a long time ago. This is why I’m quitting for now unless changes are made. Holy smokes, I just can’t deal with this anymore. I really don’t think anyone could blame anyone here for quitting if they only play mes. Anet has just been mind kittening them the whole time.

yup

^ true that………..

Silverkey.2078:

I still play mesmer in PvP because:

• I like mesmer
• I suck at other classes so I’m more efficient on a bad mesmer build than on a good something else

I do the same… played mes since day 1… never have i been crushed so hard by every profession in the game all at the same time

Yay shatter mes is fine! still less dps than other classes but its the only option we’ve got so we’ll just deal with it… glad we have so much build diversity now

Back to gw1 for me

Shovel Face.4512:

HipposWild.7185:

That is not at all what happened. They just swapped who’s insanely op. I don’t play mesmer but them and ele might add well get deleted. Which is not balance.

Ur kidding right? Everyone was so use to broken Mesmer class that now since they actually have to try and play with skill they are mad they can’t be the “OP class.” As far as I’m concerned, this is balance. Having Ele and Mes being virtually unkillable is not balance. Having a Rev condi you to death by simply standing next to you is not balance. Have 2 classes virtually unplayable is not balance. Having all classes now required to have skill to play IS BALANCE.

let me guess… you play an untouched or buffed class and think you are skillful now cause anet nerfed everything to crap. Yeah you are just that good

style.6173:

More likely that their broken specs got balanced. Bye bye bunker mesmer

OMG drop the bunker mes crap… it was just that crap. but it was the only option for mes and now there aren’t any

AlphatheWhite.9351:

light the ship on fire, jump ship, and swim to your waiting pirate vessel.

Watch in satisfaction as your enemies sink to a watery grave.

Declare yourself the Pirate King, and reign with blood and terror upon the seas.

Too far… but yeah. Mine as well pick something else. Even the best players struggle with mes now and they’re bs-ing if they say otherwise.

anyone else notice they get better CDR with the illusions trait line than with chrono now? i get that alacrity to an entire team is op but now the chrono themselves are better off with out it.

agreed… make it a boon too

style.6173:

We still need a bit more time. I am happy that the no-skill builds like bunker mesmer are gone, but still need to see how more matches play out.

bunker mes took more skill than condi spamming lol

Anyone else looking for that refund?

Silverkey.2078:

Honestly, this may be a small change, but this is huge for condition mesmer in PvE.
With duelist’s discipline buff + scepter QoL, I think condition mesmer will now be the highest possible DPS.

Not everyone wants to play condi though… it’s super boring and takes no effort to spam condis and wait till your enemy dies… which is exactly where this next meta is heading. especially with all the resistance nerfs and then the boon corrupts on necro.

So sure maybe condi mes is ‘saved’ but its not gonna be any better than a condi necro or rev or even a war for that matter.

The way mystic clovers are gained is unfair. Since the rng never works in my favor, I’ve spent over a stack of ectos, coins, and shards, all for only 40 clovers. At this rate it will cost me 2 stacks to get the 77 needed and we all know my luck is just gonna slow it down to around 3 stacks. Why should I need to pay up 2-3 stacks of these materials for the same thing that someone else could pay 150 or so for. It’s not rewarding the skillful player… only the lucky ones. There should be another way to acquire these so that players with unlucky accounts have a way to know EXACTLY what they need to get them. I know there are pvp tracks (2 each is hardly rewarding) and the monthly login chest (8/month is quite the time gate -_-) but these are not enough.

The introduction of precursor crafting was a huge step in getting rid of this unfair luck favored path in getting a legendary… mine as well finish the job and provide another (not luck based) way of getting these clovers so the unlucky accounts don’t waste 100s of gold in the mystic toilet.

~Thanks

I like it! though warhorn would make more sense. Mes does need more main hand options for sure though

Warlord.9074:

mes is real disgusting right now, I know it feels bad to be nerfed, but mes deserves it badly. If you are a mes you don’t play the same game as me for you the game is easy and you don’t even know it becuz you are too used to abusing how broken you are.

Oh so the game is hard now and you have to play well? Welcome to my world.

Non-mesmer players need to stop trashing mes players…. Real mes players aren’t complaining about the bunker being nerfed and they all agree that it was op. People who truly play mes will continue stomping kids even after the next nerf where all other mes builds (shatter, bunker, condi, mantra, you name it) are crap again compared to any given other profession running a similar build.

After the nerf all the people who just WANT to play mes will quit cause its too hard, and every other profession in the game will be happy cause only the great mesmers are actually any good and they wont have to worry about them as often. Real mes player will be upset they have to be twice as good as any other profession to be better than them but at the same time will be happy knowing they are some of the best and fewest players in the game.

So speaking on the behalf of the real mes population… Go ahead and keep complaining you can’t handle us. Get us nerfed time and time again…. We’ll just keep finding new ways to crush you. Keeps things interesting that way. ^^ gl stopping us next season

Aktium.9506:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Serdoc.7261:

Aktium.9506:

Nova Stiker.8396:

To match Alacity? Lets be honest, no one will be able to 1v1 a Reaper as long as ALL of their skills take over twice as long to recharge at all times.

Sure, if you make it an uncleansable effect instead of a condition to match Alacrity being an unstrippable effect and not a boon.

/ End thread.
OP fail.

Boon duration exists. Even without the trait, you wanna have Mesmers with 50% boon duration with all boons including Alacity?

Sure, lets take bunker mesmer and make it even stronger. It should be removal-able WITH the upcoming nerf but ArenaNet apparently thinks otherwise.

Apparently you’re not using your head.

Well, good thing the suggestion wasn’t to make Alacrity a boon then. The suggestion was to make Chill an uncleansable effect to match Alacrity in its current state.

yeah well that idea is just bad… that’s not nerfing something to bring it “more in line” its buffing something to make another effect more out of line

since it came into the game and chill never had in inverse… come on anet made it the inverse… 66% vs 66%. to make it more an inverse it should increase movement speed by 66% too lol

Serdoc.7261:

Aktium.9506:

Nova Stiker.8396:

To match Alacity? Lets be honest, no one will be able to 1v1 a Reaper as long as ALL of their skills take over twice as long to recharge at all times.

Sure, if you make it an uncleansable effect instead of a condition to match Alacrity being an unstrippable effect and not a boon.

/ End thread.
OP fail.

already suggested making alacrity a boon and calling it a day. it will then be “more in line” and if you don’t like it…. strip it

Not replace with but add it for more diversity. I’d love to see enchantments…. and definitely hexes come back too. would make the game much more interesting. thoughts?

Xyonon.3987:

So decrease every alacrity source by 50% duration and make it a boon? Interesting idea, really. But it would make it very useless without any investment in boon duration wich on the other hand kills build diversity so much that it’s a rather bad idea :/

I agree on chill nerf tough.

I also think they should reduce recall CD to 30 “to get in line” with other wells

I didn’t say reduce every source by 50%… infact modifying anything by 50% in a balance patch is a super quick way to flip the table so OP goes to UP instantly…. something anet does regularly. Reduce the source by idk 5-10% that way you only need to spec a little boon duration at the cost of something else to maintain the alacrity upkeep.

If your really must keep the mes nerf train rolling just change alacrity to a boon…. that way it’s “more in line” with everything else and can be stripped. This will also make players seek an increase boon duration if they want more alacrity upkeep.

If chill increases CD by 66% alacrity should reduce it by 66%. So keep it at 66% or lower chill to 33%.

morrolan.9608:

Uncle Dalty.8327:

l don’t know what has already been said but I don’t get why mes is always the first and most severely to be nerfed.. Sure the bunker build was good but at the same time they could not kill anything half decent while runner bunker and they did not ruin the play style of other professions.

Yabbut they could keep themselves and others alive almost indefinitely. PVP was being dominated by 2 classes, bunker chrono and condi revenant. Both were nerfed.

Condi rev was not nerfed…. one trait cahnged

Remove temporal Enchanted. Resistance stops point capture as well so you won’t be solving that issue as well as you could

l don’t know what has already been said but I don’t get why mes is always the first and most severely to be nerfed.. Sure the bunker build was good but at the same time they could not kill anything half decent while runner bunker and they did not ruin the play style of other professions. The GW community is looking at balance all wrong…. no profession in this game is OP to any other profession… (well maybe rev to everything atm). Every profession can counter every other profession. However, many professions in the game are OP to at the moment to certain “play-styles” which has lead to pvp becoming bunker vs bunker and condi vs condi… which is extremely boring. Mesmer currently had zero effect on the play styles of others so I don’t understand the nerf at all.

At this point a see a few available builds to run as mesmer:

shatter (zerk play style)
condition
mantra
PU
interrupt
bunker

Lets go through the list and see what is left for mesmer to do in pvp.

Shatter: (good but no longer a good idea)
At this point HoT has made all shatter builds (and other professions’ zerk builds) obsolete with the addition of DH. The insta-set insta-kill traps complete destroy any squishy target in a second… and yes you can argue just dodge them but mesmers can’t even blink out of the traps without taking massive damage. But sure… assume you can dodge the traps once, you only have so many dodges and a skilled DH can survive well enough to get traps down a few times. In addition, standing far away isn’t safe either with the bow doing tons of damage, not in general, but to squishy targets. If your a good zerker a 1 v 1 match with a DH is not really an issue (though they still get to sit on point for a while until you finally kill them since stepping on point is a sure way to die against a DH) but a 2 v 1 still means you are dead no matter what. I’m not saying DH should be nerfed because I know they are not very good against many builds/play styles but if you’re wondering why everyone and there mothers are playing bunkers now this is a huge reason…

Condition: (okay)
I guess condition builds are still somewhat useful but lets be serious, why play condi mes when the condi rev is 1000000 times better in support, dps, bunkering, you name it? which speaking of revs… they can easily kill a bunker mes if they just keep condi pressure up (same with necros) but people would rather nerf mes so everything can kill them than learn how to kill them as they are.

Mantra: (bad)
mantra builds have never been good or useful in pvp. Many people run them but I’ve never seen them win a 1 v 1 and the support is slim to none. Since anet doesn’t buff mes I would expect for mantras to never be useful.

PU: (terrible)
Everyone’s favorite… I remember the huge arguments when everyone felt pu was op… well regardless of whether it was or not it is definitely unhelpful in pvp now and frankly extremely boring for experienced players to even consider playing.

Interrupt: (okay)
There is the interrupt build which is not on metabattle…. thank god (that site only aids in ruining game play by suggesting to player to play all the same mediocre builds). I have had moderate success with interrupt builds but this is not gw1 so interrupting can still only take you so far.

Bunker: (great yesterday bad today, other bunkers are now much better)
Now in latest news, anet has nerfed the chrono bunker… and over course it wasn’t a gentle nerf but a ‘lets take the two most useful skills and this build… weaken one of them and make the other useless for point capture… and not just useless for point capture… BAD for it since now we’ll give distortion to everyone on point so the other team gets to cap for 3 seconds.’ I never really like playing bunker but at this point in the game that was all I was left to choose from just because of how other classes are playing.

I very well could have missed something but I tried to cover what i could in a few minutes. Bottom line is mesmers should not always be the target of public hatred and nerfing. they are good but they are not better than any other profession. People need to stop targeting a class just because they don’t know how to fight it.

Suggestions:
- DH needs a rework (not a nerf) so they are not making everyone play bunker or condi.
- Conditions across all classes (mainly rev) should be toned down so players aren’t forced to run 50% of there zerk build as bunker just so they don’t drain out from conditions every 20 seconds.
- If the above is done mes (already nerfed PLENTY) and other bunkers should be nerfed a little so that physical damage will kill them rather than requiring conditions to drain the out. —-—- war and thief will benefit naturally from this change so less buffing will be required on those professions

Not sure if there is already a thread open for this but I think i should happen. That was such a great feature in GuildWars. And now that traits are gone it makes sense to bring it back!

Nerf the heck out of thieves!!! I really like thieves and think they are a really fun class, but when it comes to WvW they are way over powered often just picking off people in large groups until it’s and 1 v 1 match and obviously the thief wins.

I understand to point of them spiking a lot of damage and using stealth but they can spike up to 90% of most peoples health in one chain and then they vanish only to come back in finish the job seconds latter because there attacks have no recharge… and if they miss a second time they’ll can just stealth again… and again… and again… not to mention they a the fastest professions in the game next to eles so there is no running away either.

Now I really hate they idea of nerffing anything, but thieves are just way to good… they can stealth, spike, and move better than any class. if you don’t nerf them at least make a skill available to other professions that let them see through stealth so other professions actually stand a chance.

I think WvW is awesome but it get old after playing it for a while; and if your playing it just to fight in small groups or 1 v 1 you have to wait till the late hours when everyone else is sleeping except for the other people trying to do the same. Even if you do stay up late its still a pain to actually get to other players on the massive maps.

Structured PvP on the of hand is good for small group battles but it uses a completely different character system… What if I want to use my PvE equipment in PvP.

I’d really like to see PvP options like Jade Quarry and Alliance Battles in GW. A deuling mechanic like the one in Aion would also be awesome for those who just want to fight 1 v 1 or 2 v 2.