Guild Wars 2

Kraggy.4169:

Many of course made their fortunes by exploiting the early easy ways to get precursors and have since sold them at ever-increasing prices; not to mention the many other exploits that allowed those ‘exploiting early, exploiting often’ to gain an advantage before Anet got round to closing exploit: note how many times Anet fail to confiscate ill-gotten gains in these cases.

No seriously. This “I can’t comprehend how people have so much money, so I’m going to assume most rich cheated to get their wealth” schtick gets real annoying.

Ensign.2189:

I pulled data off spidy a couple hours ago and did just that Ursan, and got 17.52 silver (lowest sell price).

The assumptions were that all dyes of the same rarity were equally likely to drop, and that the ratio of fine to masterwork to rare was 60/30/10 – which is in line with the rough drop rate research I’ve done and is in line with other research I’ve seen.

Ping me with a PM if you want the spreadsheet.

That’s fascinating. Thank you so much.

Actually, it’ll be really interesting to calculate the expected value you get out of identifying a die. The results may even surprise you, since there is a LOT of common dyes that sell for 20s+.

Of course, as no one knows what the exact droprates are, we will never know. Still be interesting though.

Surferboy.1649:

@Ursan, if 2 offers which differ 1 copper arise almost at the same time, then they are probably from the same person.

False. I seriously marvel at how you make this leap in logic.

1. If it’s the same person, why would you outbid yourself by 1 copper?
2. It can be easily someone who really wants that precursor and tracks the item regularly. Sees an offer higher than his, so he cancels his old bid and puts a new bid, 1 copper higher.
3. Or, with a population of 3 million, it’s very possible to conceive that a person put up a buy order, and some random guy a few minutes later decides to put in a buy order, this one 1c higher.

Surferboy.1649:

Now tell me, why should someone buy 2 shortbows?
Will he equip both? Yeah, that makes sense.
If you can explain me, why someone else than a gold seller should do that, then pls go ahead.

Your assumption in your first post is false. Please stop making assumptions and basing your arguments on them.

Arah weapons do have a faint glow. It’s not as bright as AC stuff, but AC stuff only glows at night.

I’m still confused as why buy orders differing by 1s means gold sellers….

Someone help me with the logic here. Are you saying that if it was players, they would constantly outbid each other?

That’s not true. Look at an auction house. You get to a point where people will just stop bidding higher, because they reached their limit. You see the same here. Yea, you can bid 2s more, but you hit your limit, you just refuge to go higher.

Very normal.

phys.7689:

dungeons really dont compensate you any better than farming events in ORR, its at least competitive though.

Dungeons give you access to exclusive dungeon armor/weapon skins.
Dungeons have high guarenteed gold drops from bosses/completion.
Higher drop rates for rares/exotics compared to open world. Though this is based on personal experience, can’t say for sure.

SteepledHat.1345:

That’s it guys. The requirements aren’t unreasonable you’re just doing it wrong. Go grind CoF until you have your 500+ gold. Other people can do it so can you.

There is no problem here.

Yea, so why don’t you? Because you don’t find it fun? That’s great, don’t do it. Do what you consider “fun” in this game, because I assure you, not having that Legendary isn’t preventing you from doing what you think is “fun.”

Surferboy.1649:

well Ursan, why are there always offers for precursors who differ just by 1 silver or less. If these where different people, there would probably be a fight between these. But the offers stay this way for many days.
That’s why I think these offers are of goldsellers.

I’m not sure if you’re serious or not. The buy offers are changing constantly. Some very quick research would show you that your statement is incorrect.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29169

Surferboy.1649:

And is grinding really what Anet wants of us? Farming all day and night or is it to achieve a legendary weapon while having fun?

Yes. Anet fully endorses grinding for rare cosmetic items. This was their mantra in GW1, and the same in GW2.

Again, do what you think is “fun,” because not having that Legendary isn’t preventing you from doing it.

Vol.5241:

Ursan.7846:

I feel you have a pretty different idea of what “difficult” is. Fighting dragons is not difficult. Nor is doing JPs, or killing champion mobs.

The most difficult content in this game currently are dungeons and fractals. They have many one-shot mechanics, as well as sequences which requires teamwork and coordination.

And players are well compensated for it, IMO.

Arah P4

shudders

I have so much respect for people who wear full Arah gear, more than so with people with Legendaries some times. I myself worked my kitten off for the Arah scepter/footgear (which of course no one notices).

Which is why I wish Legendaries included Dungeon Master, or something related to it, on top of everything else. That’s not even THAT hard, but it’s something. Oh well.

I feel you have a pretty different idea of what “difficult” is. Fighting dragons is not difficult. Nor is doing JPs, or killing champion mobs.

The most difficult content in this game currently are dungeons and fractals. They have many one-shot mechanics, as well as sequences which requires teamwork and coordination.

And players are well compensated for it, IMO.

Surferboy.1649:

The problem is, that the highest offers are offers of gold sellers, too.

I’m curious as how you know this.

My impression is that, because you yourself can’t comprehend offering 500-700G for a precursor, you automatically assume no one else in the general populace can.

I assure you, there are plenty of wealthy people who 1. are not gold sellers and 2. did not earn money playing the TP. Just because you can’t comprehend it, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

I’m not mistaken. These are things I have on exams. I’m aware Austrian and monetarists handle things a bit differently. But in mainstream Econ in colleges, AD can be a contributing factor of inflation.. You aren’t disputing me, you’re disputing an economic school.

To some degree much of this is applicable to gw2. AD pulls prices up if AS cannot keep up. A lot of mats combine and thus affect each other.

Look, if you disagree with the Keynesian school just say so….

We can just agree we handle matters differently.

I’d just like to point out that he’s not disagreeing with Keynesian theory, he’s just disputing that it can be applied to this game’s economy.

Because jkctmc is madly in love with Chopps, don’t you know? Just can’t let him go.

Thanks for the quick replies!

So I was going through Caledon, and I passed by Morgan’s Spiral.

I love JPs, so I thought I’ll do it real quick. To my horror, the leaves at the base were withered and I couldn’t access the JP. I quickly glance up and the entire tree is gone.

Is this some kind of event-related thing? I don’t remember anything like this.

@ Syeria, mind explaining in detail what these economic challenges were? I never played that game, so I’m just curious.

Zenguy.6421:

This is a consequence of the best end-game equipment being more accessible via the BLTP than any other part of the game.

Best as in what. Stats?

1. Exotics have same stats as legendaries.
2. When new tiers (Ascended) comes out, they will have their own (much easier) method of obtaining it.
3. Grinding massively for a legendary just so you can avoid the (much smaller) grind for ascended/future tiers yeeears down the line is silly.

SteepledHat.1345:

Lmao, if you guys want to get all particular. Take the gradient of a line in two dimensions.

It’s silly to argue over this. Anyone with some mathematics background knew what he said.

Arguing the definition of a gradient is detracting from the original point. Which is this his posts are incoherent, hard to understand, and could’ve easily gotten his ideas across (this straight line on the plot is wierd!) without delving into a discussion about trendlines and slopes.

tnarrant.9714:

Chuo.4238:

The current system (low-odds RNG + tradeable precursors/legendaries) encourages people to purchase gems and convert them to gold. ArenaNet knows exactly what they are doing with this, and it has nothing to do with what players want. It’s a cash shop strategy, pure and simple.

I’m not saying it’s either right or wrong, but I am saying that I don’t like it one bit, and I find it rather distastefully done.

Yes, this is pretty much exactly how I see it.

It makes sense that they would subtlety motivate players to buy gems, since they are a business, so I can’t completely hold that against them. But it’s seeming more blatant as time advances, so it’s turning me off and I’m not giving them a single dime. Too many changes seem to increase my frustration and reduce my enjoyment, so I’m tending to spend more time in other games now.

This whole “ANet wants higher prices on things so people will buy more gems and convert into gold” theory is stupid.

The conversion rate from Dollars → Gold is horrid. I think about $500 gets you around 700 Gold. Do you really expect a company to count on people buying optional cosmetics for $1000 (counting the cost of all the other mats).

Besides, if Anet wanted to you buy more gems with real gold, why include a Gold → Gem exchange in the first place?

Why give you more bank slots for collectible items, so you have less of an incentive to buy bank tabs with gems?

Why give lots of precursors out at the Lost Shores event, and is planning a scavenger hunt for precursors?

Of course Anet wants to make money. But you’d be stupid to view everything they do in the light of “oh they want to squeeze every dollar out of us.”

CoRtex.2157:

Dude, it didn’t had RNG, only drop-rate

facepalm

I hope you realize they are the same thing.

CoRtex.2157:

which was pretty high for rare-items. The difference between GW1 & GW2 RNG is that, gw1 rng was fun, u had to clear dungeons, have tactics, speed clearing, have communication. GW2 RNG = Standing still for hours & hours, putting swords into 4 squares. Need more gold? Go grind mobs, use the same skills over and over without even thinking. Just brainless

It’s kinda funny how you bring up dungeons actually. GW1 dungeons is more RNG, in which they have no guarenteed rewards like GW2 dungeons have with their token system. Dungeon-specific drops like Charr Carvings were RNG drops from mobs.

Also just saying, even if you enjoyed the GW1 RNG more, it doesn’t change the fact that it still had RNG…

Dante.1508:

RNG is not optional its hard-coded into every aspect of the game, there is no option..

What? You could’ve spent that 700-800G to just buy a dusk/dawn straigh up from the TP you know. That IS an option.

Also what is with GW1 players going “GW1 had no RNG?” That is a flat-out lie. Sure nostalgia can make you look at games with rose-tinted glasses, but come on now.

Problem with rewarding players purely with skill is that it’s hard to enforce rarity based on challenges based on purely skill.

Of course, you CAN have rewards that reward skill, but it’s gonna be common as heck. Because whatever Anet designs, it’s either gonna be uber hard or easy enough that half the population can do it. If it’s uber hard, it becomes incredibly unfair to those who lack skill. What if you’re just not that good at jumping puzzles? What if your profession is just bad at soloing? And of course, on the flipside, if it’s doable by the majority of the population, it loses its “rare” status.

Again, not saying they shouldn’t. I personally think that completing all jumping puzzles should let you get a token or something that you can trade in for a “Jumping puzzle” themed skin. Nothing too fancy, but still a nice reward for those who love JPs.

So in order to enforce rarity, you have to introduce time/luck into the equation. Because in the end, time/luck is “fair.” Everyone can choose to invest more time. Everyone has a fair shot at getting something.

Like for example, Arah. It’s a pretty hard dungeon, requires a lot of skill to do, but Arah armor sets are VERY rare in this game. If you got the full armor set in just one run (pure skill) then that armor set would not be as rare. But since getting that armor set takes both skill AND time, it’s incredibly rare.

People in this forum like to talk about skill a lot. “Skill should be rewarded, blah blah blah.” While it’ll be nice, in a game it’s just incredibly hard to come up with metrics of “skill” that’s fair and can’t be gamed. So Anet uses time and luck to enforce rarity of items.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

So now I have to use particular lingo in order for the not so educated to understand me?

1. You must be the only one who would reference a Rise/Run equation as a “gradient” instead of a “slope.” I do understand what a gradient is, but I’m confused as hell as to why you would use that word instead of “slope,” when you’re trying to communicate your idea in a clear, concise way.
2. So your original point is that straight line without noise is quite strange. A very valid point. But you bring in a bunch of random ramblings about trendlines and slopes while not explaining your point very clearly at all, leading to a bunch of very confused people. You can show off how much you know all you want about math, but it’s not helping with the communication of your ideas/concerns (why is the slope constant for a stretch on the plot?), which (hopefully) is your objective.

TL;DR: Learn to communicate in clear, concise manner please.

CassieGold.7460:

Signet of Forums.4397:

John Smith.4610:

This post is evidence that their methods are effective.

It’s also evidence that crafting legendaries probably should not have been based on highly specific items which are very rare (relative to demand) random drops. It’s not exactly like they would be super-easy to make without that factor added in. I know the topic has been discussed to death and changes are incoming at some unknown point in the future. In light of how “bling” gear was obtained in Guild Wars 1 (like Tormented weapons, for example), I still don’t really understand what the thought process was behind how precursors are currently obtained.

I have to insert a comment on this…. Torment Weapons were one thing, but how about a Voltaic Spear? Amethyst Aegis? A dozen other coveted skins in GW1 that were RNG in end game areas…. Tormented Weapons were probably one of the only non-RNG items that held value for an extended period of time, and their value plummeted during the days of ‘Ursan Way’ when a larger segment of the community had easy access to produce their own. It largely rebounded when it became a HoM eligible item. And not only did you have to RNG a skin, but for real value, you also had to RNG a low req, the right req, and heaven forbid you were working for Zodiac Weapons where you also had to RNG a desired inscription.

GW1 elite items did not have less RNG than legendary items, if anything, they had more.

I worked 2 years to earn enough money for my Voltaic Spear + Tormented Weapon + Vabbian armor.

And I guess that really colors why I view the timeframe of getting legendaries “Acceptable.” Earned so far ~500G in 4 months, will have enough money for everyrhing in 1~2 years. I’m okay with that (though I realize some other people aren’t.)

Btw Cassie you mentioned my namesake =P. You have no idea how happy I am to be reminded of the good times. PS I did not Ursanway DoA. I H/H that kitten. It was painful, but awesome.

Daeron.3608:

this certainly isn’t proof of anything

You’re entirely correct in your original post. There’s honestly nothing to discuss about gold sellers claiming they have control of the market.

Daeron.3608:

After all, don’t we all agree that there is something wrong with the current precursor system? Anet’s decision to figure out alternative methods speaks volumes.

No we do not agree. The system is working as it is. The precursor market is not being monopolized, and there are still plenty of buyers willing to the price that their rarity (rightly) demands.

Anet’s decision to assign one designer, and no devs, to start brainstorming the idea on a system they’re thinking of implementing MONTHs down the road also speaks volumes about how much of a priority they see this.

We’ll see though. We do not know if Anet is happy with the rarity of precursors in the game currently. It’s very possible that they will change it, for better or worse. But for the rarity of precursors we see right now, the price is justified, and the amount of transactions that occur daily backs this up.

Chopps.5047:

You guys provided anecdotal evidence about GS being “weak” and I provided anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If anyone wants to make a solid case, they need to test it, record key figures of merit, and compare it to other classes. Also, weapon performance is trait/gear dependent too so you have to factor that in. I’m just chiming in again to basically say that without hard data, you’re in no position to criticize. Also, some damage comes from the pet so for any ranger damage calculation you have to include how much damage the pet is doing.

Also , terms need to be defined. What is the definition of weak weapon? Under what circumstances are other weapons better and why? Can you show this with data? Is your build up for discussion? There’s too many loose definitions and emotional based arguments being thrown around for us to come to any meaningful conclusion in this thread.

Oh holy kittens, spoken like a true scientist. Chopps, have I told you how much I love you?

@ Daeron

I’d like to point that you’re the one who’s trying to make a point “gold sellers manipulate precursor prices.” You word it like you’re just asking for the heck of it, but your actions and accusations makes it pretty clear what your thoughts on this subject are.

Until you present evidence and argument to back your stance up, there isn’t going to any “proper dialogue.” And no, gold sellers claiming they control precursors doesn’t constitute as good evidence.

Hey guys,

Just found an article online talking about economics in video games, with quotes from our very own John Smith!

http://lopezirl.com/2013/02/08/the-economics-of-video-games/

I hope a transcript of the actual interview comes out soon also!

Tallis, enough with you stupid conspiracy theories.

There’s a distinct difference between:

“Anet influences the prices.”

And

“Anet decides on the prices.”

And you’re being utterly obtuse if you ignore the difference.

Also I’m not sure you realized this but, ascended amulets and rings currently CANNOT BE BOUGHT WITH GOLD (And yes, the stats on the trinkets do mean higher DPS). If Anet truly wanted to nudge players into buying stats, they would’ve done so. But you CAN’T, which directly contradicts your theory.

Lets look at things Anet has done that DISCOURAGES people from buying Gems with real money.

1. The ability to buy Gems with GOLD. If they wanted real money so bad, they wouldn’t have done this. (How many people bought the Quaggan backpack with gold instead of real money?)

2. Added collectible tabs for ecto/lodestone/holiday mats, so people have less of a necessity to buy bank space.

And again, I’m going to refer to some info I posted from a previous thread.

$1 gets you 1.5G. If you want to spend about $200 to get 100 charged cores, by all means. But the percentage of the population who will do this is TINY, and if you think Anet is relying on people do do that, you’re crazy.

Of course Anet wants to make money as a company. But if you think everything they do is their attempt to squeeze cash out of customers, you’re wrong. How many times you post this conspiracy theory on the forums isn’t gonna change that.

Just to note, when you say P2W, there’s two types of P2W.

One where players can access, with time, everything someone can get by paying.
One where players can never access with time everything someone can get by paying.

Guild Wars is strictly the first. Though how “P2W” the game is can be debated since it’s preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty easy to get exotics simply through playing.

It is possible, but the market has stabilized since it’s released. You still do see those spikes before holidays/quaggan backpacks however, you can perhaps take advantage of that.

PS it is perfectly legal.

Gburzak.7035:

You obviously never studied statistics, nor do you understand how market’s

No seriously, please read around the threads in this subforums. They’re quite a wonderful read, and I’m sure you’ll learn a lot about how the economy in this game work. It’s been pretty well established through discussion that market manipulations, while possible, is quite hard in this economy. And it’s almost impossible to monopolize anything, even precursors.

Gburzak.7035:

To take your example: the next seller is going to put it either at 699, or at 700 as well.

Right, exactly. Which is why you see a sudden jump in the price. If one person does it, other people quick follow and post similar prices. It doesn’t have to be all one person, you know (which is what you’re saying)

Gburzak.7035:

The only logical and plausible theory that explains this is market manipulation; statistically speaking, it is all but impossible every seller of this precursor suddenly had the very same idea to push the price upward (and by how much). Statistically speaking, it is not even possible most of them were online during that time.

I like how you talk about statistical impossibility when you don’t even know the sample size.

But regardless, is it really hard to imagine one person putting it up for a much higher sell order, and others following suit? It’s not like suddenly 10 Zaps appeared at a higher price. All I see from GWspidy is all the (2) 300G~ Zaps being bought up and 1 suddenly appearing at 487. And every other seller follows suit and posts prices similar to that.

By the way, how are you getting the “someone bought out 10-15 Zaps and put them up for higher price?” I’m looking at GWspidy, and nowhere does Zap’s sell listings exceeds 3.

Gburzak.7035:

ALL available Zap’s and offered them back at almost twice the price. Really sounds fair to you?

I posted that link hoping to show you that sell listings =/= supply. Dawn/Dusk has like 2/3 sell listings at most, but the actual available supply is much higher than that. So basically what you see on the sell listings is NOT all the Zaps that are available.

This is why it’s almost impossible to monopolize anything

Gburzak.7035:

What stops such people of doing it all over again in a week, and setting the price at 1000 lets say?

The fact that beyond a certain price, no one will buy it for for that price. If prices stays the same/rises, it simply means people can still afford them. And plenty of precursors are still moving around at these current prices.

No but really, read around this subforum. There’s really a ton of really good discussions that goes on. You’ll find many posts detailing why exactly some market manipulator monopolizing the precursor market is hard to believe.

VakarisJ.5619:

There are different ways to promote player skill. You don’t have to make everyone equal and boring in order to achieve it. It’s called asymmetric balance and it could be seen very successfully implemented into GW2 and it’s JPs.

As for the discussion — it’s been (mostly) nice discussing the subject with you.

You should participate in the TC jumping puzzles contest =D

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/17xaht/first_official_jumping_puzzle_tournament/

VakarisJ.5619:

Variety.
If they want to take 20 minutes to complete a JP by using a crutch — let them.
I’ll just complete it in 2 minutes without using (or occasionally using) that crutch.
Skill still matters, but it’s just a matter of time until you get it anyway. Trial & error can be substituted with long cooldown precision-jump abilities like the jump shot without ruining the game.

Right. JPs without class skills separate those with skills from those without the skills. Which is GOOD.

Why is certain classes having advantage over others “Variety?”

Well in the strictest sense of the term, it is “variety” I suppose. It’s gonna be more of a JP class tier list though. Which is stupid. Why introduce class-based imbalance in a mode that strives to promote player skill? So different players can have fun coming up with different ways of having swiftness?

Wintersday’ JP had it right. No class skills, everyone had swiftness. Boom, everyone’s on a fair ground. Perfect.

Anyways, I think we just have to agree to disagree. We’ve drawn this argument long enough, I think, and it’s quite off topic. For that, I apologize.

VakarisJ.5619:

Swiftness and boons that boost speed mean you have more control over how you jump.

Lol.

Nope.

All swiftness does is to allow you to jump farther. If that….is your definition of “more control,” sure. But would you seriously use swiftness to “control your jump” when jumping on the planks, in say, the EB keep vistas? (where it’s INCREDIBLY easy to overjump)

PS wasn’t aware of any boons aside from swiftness that boosted speed. You should get your terminology straight!

VakarisJ.5619:

By that I meant that mesmers, by them selves, are not favored at all and that engineers aren’t favored because of downfalls in areas that’s not jump shot.

1. You’re right on the mesmers. I worded that wrong, and spawned a whole another argument which we agree to disagree on. (The need for a CRUTCH. Which swiftness also is, entertainingly enough)
2. When I think about it, your original post is actually right. Engies don’t have a huge advantage if the jumping puzzle is timed.
3. None of this changes the fact that introducing class imbalace by having class skills in the jumping puzzle to end all jumping puzzles is stupid. And Anet agrees with the way they implemented Mad King/Wintersday, and will do in this new future JP.

You admit that using class skills introduces imbalance. In the one area in the game which SKILL matters a lot (and how good your rig is, I guess), why introduce these imbalances at all?

VakarisJ.5619:

It’s easy to overlook the end of swiftness when you’re trying to get the most jumps out of your boons as you can, aside from that, if you can’t keep up perma-siftness in some JPs that rely on time for you to get from point A to B, you can’t always sit back and wait for it to recharge.

Ugh.

Why do you need swiftness in jumping puzzles?

If you fear you’re going to underjump a jump.

Tell me, in which jumping puzzle will you hit a stretch of nothing but long jumps, AND can’t wait for the recharge of your swiftness?

There may be JPs in which there’s long stretches of long jumps, but I can think of none in which you can’t stay and wait for the CD.

There’s only one JP aside from Halloween/Wintersday that is timed, in Southsun. There, swiftness is pointless because the platform is so close, you have no need to swiftness.

VakarisJ.5619:

Oh and I stated many times in this discussion already that imperfect balance doesn’t mean that something’s worse outright. Some classes excel in some areas, others — in others.

I’m glad we can agree that there’s an imbalance.

VakarisJ.5619:

Ursan.7846:

It is also imbalanced in hugely favors engineers and mesmers.

False.

Oh a funny flipside, if the JP was actually timed, then it’ll shift the balance to favor eles (perma swiftness) and thief/ranger (25% speed signets). So yea, still imbalance. I’m pretty sure Anet considered that when they made Halloween/Wintersday puzzles have no class skills.

VakarisJ.5619:

Didn’t we agree to disagree just one post above? It seems like you’ve gone back and began repeating your self like a broken radio.
Just to remind you: I did state that I not agree that engies have a distinct broad advantage about the whole JP system. Only the leap system, which is counterbalanced by intensive swiftness micro.

We disagreed on whether baddies deserve a crutch or not.
We agree that Engi leap is a crutch.
So we agree that there is an imbalance in classes.

PS, you’ve yet to explain to me why lack perma swiftness is a disadvantage?

Gburzak.7035:

Now that is what I call an intelligent response to my post. No arguments, several invocations to God, and a link to a post which doesn’t clarify anything. So what, about 10 of each kind of precursor “move” every day. Yep. That’s what happened today: one person bought up 10 or 15 available and now sells them twice as high. Or maybe you want people to believe -ALL- sellers somehow got the idea to increase the price by 100% at the very same moment.

Hint: if you take part in a discussion, actually have something to say first.

I refuse to. If you haven’t noticed, I and several other posters have discussed ad nauseam why the situation you describe is unrealistic. If you’re serious about actually discussing and learning things (instead of you know, coming in with preconceived notions and yelling about them with a bunch of hyperbole) I suggest you read around this subforums.

But I will say this. One seller puts up an item for 700G. What’s the next seller gonna put it up as? 500G? How about a huge KITTENING no?

VakarisJ.5619:

I actually did.

You said that this theoretical person couldn’t complete this JP to save his life.
I compared it to a man who couldn’t breathe to save his life.
You said you’re determined to take away one’s crutch, I compared it to taking an other one’s crutch.

You know.

You’re pretty much required to breathe to live.

Whereas I don’t think your character will permanently die if you don’t do JPs.

VakarisJ.5619:

Really, in the end what does it matter if some guy, who’s struggling with a JP uses jump shot to finally get that achievement after hours of attempts at the simplest of jumps? It doesn’t harm you or me or anyone for that matter, yet it aids that person in doing something he would’ve likely never achieved.

As I said, we obviously reside in two different philosophical camps.

But still, I’m glad that you agree to my original post that Engies to enjoy a distinct advantage in JPs.

VakarisJ.5619:

While the engineer holds a distinctive advantage when it comes to leaps, he loses it when it comes to perma-swiftness. Sure he can keep it up with speedy kits, medkit and stimulants, but it’s a hassle, as spamming the medkit every 5 seconds takes away your attention from the task at hand and personally, I’ve found my self falling in JPs many times because of it.

Use swiftness when needed, and just pause and wait for CD if you need it but it’s not up. I wasn’t aware of any jumping puzzles in which perma-swiftness was helpful, because having 100% swiftness uptime gives you no advantage over having swiftness sometimes. Except in the Mad King/Wintersdays ones, where it would’ve been helpeful due to it being timed. Too bad you didn’t have access to it (And rightly so. Another case of imbalance if they did let you use class skills.)

VakarisJ.5619:

Somehow after reading that I imagine you going into a hospital, finding the nearest patient with a torn diaphragm, pulling out his life support and yelling at him: “Breathe like everyone else you kitten cripple!”
I hope you get my meaning.

I really hope you didn’t just compare

1. Completing a challenge, and getting rewarded for it.

to

2. Breathing?

I didn’t realize people died if their characters were unable to finish JPs? I’m scratching my head here wondering how the KITTEN you got your inane analogy from.

I am in the camp of “if you can’t do it, you don’t deserve the reward for completing it.” I see you disagree. That’s perfectly fine, we’ll just agree to disagree.

However, please don’t pretend like letting classes use their skills doesn’t cause imbalance. It does.

Gburzak.7035:

The precursor prices are not fair, and are manipulated by people with monstrous money at their disposal. Gold sellers immediately come to mind. The system is terribly flawed, with precursors being so hard to acquire the price can be dictated basically at any level – so long as you can afford to monopolize the market. This happened with Zap today, the price which was around 330 for the last week suddenly skyrocketed to 500. Someone bought out all, let me repeat – ALL available Zap’s and offered them back at almost twice the price. Really sounds fair to you? What stops such people of doing it all over again in a week, and setting the price at 1000 lets say?
Anet promised to make this game fun, but they are terribly failing on this front right now. Something should be changed because the situation is becoming absurd.

Oh god. Please read around this subforums before you make a post like this. Oh god oh god oh god.

Hint: This is a good place to start.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Pile-of-Crystalline-Dust/first#post1382211

VakarisJ.5619:

Then that imbalance is made by user incompetence. It’s not a fault of the puzzle or the character skills/abilities provided. It’s just as you wouldn’t blame a computer because some 90yo doesn’t know how to type.

Also, if someone’s so bad at jumping that he solely plays engineer to do them, then taking away his only salvation isn’t fair to him by any stretch of the imagination.

And there’s lots of jumps that are made trivial just because of Engi jump. I do a lot of JPs. There are a few jumps which are quite challenging and I don’t expect myself to nail it every single time. Even for many competent players, you have that difference in performance.

But regardless, I’m glad we agree that Engis hold a very distinctive advantage when it comes to JPs.

I guess where we don’t agree is that if someone doesn’t have the ability to do something, they shouldn’t be given a crutch based on their profession. (Or being given a free pas via portal)

VakarisJ.5619:

They always land you at the same range, so unless you’re having troubles judging distances, I can’t see the problem.

That is exactly the problem. People who have trouble judging distances can use Engi rifle to complete jumps.

VakarisJ.5619:

The Pig Iron Quarry JP is a very easy JP that barely has one or two spots where a leap may be useful. If you can’t jump across the hanging boxes using normal jumping and instead say it’s better to wait for the long recharge that jump shot has then I find it hard to take you seriously my self.

You miss my point. Engies who can’t jump to save their lives can complete it. Wars/Rangers/Guardian’s who can’t jump to save their lives can’t.

That’s where the imbalance comes from.

Ensign.2189:

Ursan.7846:

Or you can call it a “slope.” A word that more people will understand than “Gradient.” You can choose to communicate your ideas in a clear and concise manner, or you can choose to use fancy words to sound smart…

Gradient means a very specific thing when doing vector analysis of a function in multiple dimensions. It is distinct from a slope because it specifies magnitude and direction.

Specifying direction is pointless in a one-dimensional x/y scatterplot.

Basically this. Thanks for explaining in place of lazy ol’ me.

^ I find it hard to take you seriously if you think that being able to jump to a spot accurately (with Engi) is somehow on par with leap attacks in which you can’t control where you land exactly (unless you have something targetted.)

Seriously, I’d like to see you do, say, the entire Pig Iron Quarry JP with nothing but the Warrior/Ranger/Guardian leaps and tell me if it’s as easy as doing it it with nothing but Engi’s rifle jump. Also those skills don’t work where the next platform you have to jump to is in an elevated position.

Also I worded my post wrong about Mesmers. Mesmers don’t see any advantage in the actual jumping portion, but the fact that they can allow people to “complete” the JP without actually doing is very irksome.

EDIT: Actually reading your post again, leaves me more confused. Why would use those skills? Every jump is possible by normal jumping. The reason why people use Engi rifle jump is so that they can control their jumps, so they don’t under/over jump. If you use the leap attacks you mentioned, that defeats the purpose because you can’t actually precisely control there you’re landing, the reason why people use the rifle jump over normally jumping in the first place.

If you’re consistently underjumping, use swiftness, which is available to all classes.
If you’re consistently overjumping, those skills don’t help you at all.

VakarisJ.5619:

Josh Foreman.8250:

No. ALL skills, buffs, or any other un-equalizer will be removed.

That’s the idea I hate the most about where GW2’s JPs are headed. Skills, buffs and “un-equalizers” actually make the puzzles more fun, more dynamic. It provides creative ways to complete the said puzzles and awards thinking outside the box.

It is also imbalanced in hugely favors engineers and mesmers.

Josh Foreman.8250:

My Dead Characters.9517:

i cant jump when i use my quaggan tonics:(

You guessed it! Everyone will be transformed into Baby Quaggan who can’t jump. All you will be doing is rezzing fallen NPCs who are doing a wonderful looking JP above you. I can’t believe you figured it out so soon!

Careful there Josh, people might take you literally. People will be quoting this for months!

Khisanth.2948:

More data would be nice. “work with websites like GW2Spidy” is not. That would simply give an even bigger advantage to people who know about sites like spidy over those who do not. Screwing over one segment of the population for the benefit of the other is not way to go.

Wait, why is it unfair if everyone can access GW2Spidey?

If it was like a paid service, yea it’s unfair. But lack of knowledge isn’t something I call “unfair.”

Giles Marchand.6970:

That’s nothing like what I said. No one is going to deny that Guild Wars 2 isn’t 100% free market, it doesn’t sound like you know what I’m even talking about.

When you say something like…

Giles Marchand.6970:

The price of gems has been confirmed to be completely controlled by ArenaNet

You’re implying that they directly set the gem cost. They say "100 gold = 100 gems, and that’s that. That is “completely control” of the price.

They obviously do not do that. We’re all confused as to how did you jump from “GW2 isn’t a free market” to “Anet completely controls gem prices.”

Svarty.8019:

Ursan.7846:

We’ll see about the Scavenger Hunt though. [..]
And the SH is certainly going to make people who don’t like doing things unhappy (and there are many of them in the forums. “I DON’T LIKE DUNGEONS I DON’T LIKE JUMPING PUZZLES I DON’T LIKE WVW”).

People should not be able to get Legendaries if they don’t do those things. Arenanet have dropped the ball on Legendaries. Massively.

The legendaries are supposed to (sic);

• “show off your accomplishments and symbolise all of the things that you’ve been doing” (Lead Designer Isiah Cartwright – in this video) and,
• “show everyone that you are a true master of Guild Wars 2” (quoted from here).

I’m in agreement with you. I wish that making a Legendary included Personal Story completion, Dungeon Master, and all JP puzzle completion, on top of everything we have already.

But alas, imagine the complaints.